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Tennis Star Cocaine Allegation; Southern Water 'War'; Race in America

Aired November 01, 2007 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips.

We're spending a lot of time on race and language and symbols and, let's face it, hate, today in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Straight to the newsroom. Fredericka Whitfield working details on a developing story for us this top of the hour.

Hey, Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Kyra, tennis, anyone? Not for Grand Slam champ Martina Hingis anymore. Today she announced her retirement. This is the second time she's announced her retirement, and apparently today she announced her retirement just as a cloud of suspicion hangs over her for positive cocaine use tested after Wimbledon earlier this year.

Well, as you'll recall, it was back in 2003 when she retired for the first time because of ankle injuries, very persistent ankle injuries. Then she made a pretty remarkable comeback. And in the past year and a half, she has really taken the tennis court by storm, becoming ranked 19, and then 7 on the previous year, and now this after Wimbledon.

She tested positive after a routine test that many of the athletes endure. She tested positive for the controlled substance of cocaine.

In a press conference earlier today, she didn't speak about that at great length, but did say it was in part due to the cocaine test that she is retiring. So in an hour from now we'll be able to bring to you the sound of her press conference taking place in her homeland country of Switzerland -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll listen in.

Thanks, Fred.

LEMON: Well, bounty hunter Duane "Dog" Chapman is apologizing for repeatedly using the N-word during a phone conversation with his son. "The National Enquirer" posted a clip of the phone call online. It is unclear who recorded the call or how the tabloid obtained it. Chapman is star of A&E's reality show "Dog The Bounty Hunter". In the call, he urges his son to break up with his girlfriend who is black.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN: It's not because she's black. It's because we use the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sometimes here. I'm not gonna take a chance ever in life of losing everything I've worked for 30 years because some (EXPLETIVE DELETED) heard us say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and turned us in to the "Enquirer" magazine.

Our career is over. I'm not taking that chance at all.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEMON: In a statement, Chapman says the clip was taken out of context. He says he has -- and we quote -- "the utmost respect for black people who have suffered so much from racial discrimination and acts of hatred."

Well, CNN.com users are sounding off about this story.

Here's what Becky writes, Kyra.

She says, "When is the upset going to end? I am a Black woman, and I say the word all the time. Family friends, co-workers, et cetera, everyone says the word, whether you want to admit it or not. It is so silly to me that this is 'news'."

PHILLIPS: Kelley, who is also a black woman, says, "I agree that the word is (or should I say can be) used to describe character and not race. I forgive him."

But Mike says, "It's a swear word. It's no worse than using the 'F' word, et cetera. How many times have you called a woman the 'B' word behind her back, but no one is calling for your job for being a sexist."

LEMON: TB says, "I guess it's safe to say ignorance comes with price!!!" Maybe it should be "with a price." Michael Vick ended his career because he was ignorant."

PHILLIPS: And finally, Wabisabi writes, "It just goes to show how racism is still everywhere, especially when white people think no one is watching. Changing legislation is one thing, hearts and minds are another. We all need to get over this because at the end of the day we are all the same species."

You can log on to CNN.com, click on the story about Duane "Dog" Chapman to sound off. We'd love to hear more from you.

Meanwhile, bounty hunter Duane "Dog" Chapman has apologized for using that racial slur. You heard Don mention that. Does he plan to do more? Well, Don is going to get a chance to talk to his chaplain -- or his pastor, rather, coming up at 3:00 Eastern Time. Also an African-American, by the way.

LEMON: It will be interesting, yes, because he's an African- American. Let's see what he has to say. You don't want to miss that one.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Call it a modern-day war between states. The governors of Georgia, Florida and Alabama meeting with the interior secretary in Washington as we speak. They're trying to decide how to share water in the worst drought on record. Back in Georgia, no rain in sight.

Rusty Dornin once again at Lake Lanier, just outside Atlanta.

Usually a pretty popular place where all the boaters are even out on a day like this.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, Kyra, you've been here recently. You know how bad it is.

And let's just show you the shoreline along Lake Lanier. I mean, this goes back. We were 30 feet from the water, but it goes back another, you know, 50, 75 yards. I mean, this is the worst drought that Georgia has had since the 1840s.

Now, Lake Lanier is the major source of water. This is what everybody is arguing about.

Let's take a look over at the dam. They say they have, worst case scenario, nine months of water. But in about three months, if we have no rain, no conservation, and it gets below those pipes, that's when they have to start developing a new piping system, new water treatment systems, that sort of thing.

The three states are battling about this body of water. They want -- Alabama and Florida wants the governor of Georgia -- or excuse me, wants the Army Corps of Engineers to have enough water released. Georgia wants to stop the water from coming out of the dam.

Another thing you can see over here, one of the islands almost completely exposed out there. Just that lone tree. That's normally underwater as well.

As you said, they are in a meeting right now with the interior secretary behind closed doors. They are going to be having some kind of press conference afterwards and talk about hopefully some compromise so we can get this settled.

Alabama and Florida have a lot of concerns downstream. They have power plants, nuclear power plants. There's also an endangered species of mussels down there. Biologists are trying to figure out what's the least amount of water to keep the mussels alive and also keep Alabama and Florida happy, but keep enough water here for the people of Georgia. And one more little dramatic thing we've been showing you all day. There's the buoy that used to warn boaters about the rocks down here, and you can just see how high out -- it's nowhere near any water at this point. That's probably 20 feet out of water.

So, Kyra, pretty dramatic views, as you know, along Lake Lanier here.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely.

And we're getting e-mails from some co-workers, especially Betsy Anderson (ph). You know Betsy (ph). She's excited because there's no boaters out there. So she can water ski and barefoot without any problems.

You know how crowded it gets out there. I guess that's the upside.

DORNIN: That's right.

LEMON: When she can't flush her toilet we'll see if she's happy.

PHILLIPS: Yes, that's true.

Thank you, Rusty. Appreciate it.

And a quick reminder. We expect to hear from the governors of Georgia, Florida and Alabama in about 15 minutes. They are in Washington today discussing the drought and the shrinking water supplies afflicting their states. They are expected to take questions once they wrap up in a meeting with the interior secretary.

LEMON: Well, some sad news to report out of Philadelphia. One of the latest Philadelphia police officers shot in the line of duty, well, he's died.

The third such shooting in Philly this week happened yesterday morning at a doughnut shop. Surveillance tape released by police shows a robber barging in, then shoving several customers and waving a gun.

Officer Chuck Cassidy was shot as he walked. The assailant got away.

Cassidy had served on the police force for 25 years. He was the third officer shot in Philadelphia in the past four days.

PHILLIPS: Breaking news out of Texas right now. Fredericka Whitfield joins us with that.

Police with an emotional plea to identify a dead toddler, is that right?

WHITFIELD: Yes. This, too, is heartbreaking and a horrible story, just really one that's difficult to stomach. This taking place in south Texas, where the body of a 3-to-5- year-old little girl with long blonde hair dressed in matching pink pullover top and skirt, and then wearing this shoe right here, this little white tennis shoes with the purple markings, police are at least trying to convey to folks this is what the little girl was wearing, because maybe you can help identify this little girl who was found in a storage box that was floating in the West Galveston Bay. Absolutely heartbreaking and just so terrible.

They believe that, again, she's between 3 and 5 years old and may have been bludgeoned to death. This little girl described in a physical manner as 32 to 34 inches long, weighing only 25 to 30 pounds, and wore this size 8.5 shoe with the Velcro closures on top and the little purple markings.

So, anyone with any information about a little girl that may be missing that fits that description is being asked to call the police in south Texas. Any of those jurisdictions, they all know about this case, to try to identify this little girl and find out exactly what happened to her, what family she belongs, how something so terrible could have possibly happened -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. We will definitely follow up on that one, Fred.

Thanks very much.

LEMON: Bounty hunter Duane Chapman in the doghouse over some racially charged comments.

You've got to hear what he has to say.

PHILLIPS: A tough new immigration law in Oklahoma has some people there pretty upset. We're going to take a look at the controversial measure.

LEMON: And a tennis superstar calls it quits after testing positive for cocaine.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, it's a precious resource, we don't have enough of it. We're talking about water, and it's not just in the state of Georgia, but also the state of Florida and the state of Alabama.

Right now a news conference going on, a meeting of the minds, actually. The governors of those states with the interior secretary trying to figure out what is going to happen, what they are going to do, how they are going to provide assistance to figure out that lack of water in the three states.

We're monitoring it. We are going to check it out live. We'll bring you as much information as we can.

We're also trying to get in touch with those governors. We'll try to bring that to you as well.

LEMON: See the governor of Florida, Charlie Crist, standing there at the microphone.

A few minutes ago we told you about the controversy surrounding Duane Chapman, AKA Dog the bounty hunter, and his use of the N-word in a heated conversation about his son's girlfriend.

PHILLIPS: Well, he's apologized for those comments, but it got us talking. And even though this particular incident isn't in the news today, there's a bigger conversation to have about America's attitudes towards the N-word.

LEMON: And absolutely.

For that we welcome a special panel we've invited here to the NEWSROOM -- Atlanta radio host Martha Zoller and Frank Ski, of course.

Ski, it's good to see you.

And Morehouse College student Reginald McKinley.

And thank you all for joining us today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for having us.

LEMON: What do you say, we talk about the use of the N-word since we're talking about Dog the bounty hunter?

PHILLIPS: Kick it off.

LEMON: Let's talk about that.

I did a panel last night, the use of the N-word. Do you think that it's overused? Is it ever appropriate to be used in any situation?

We'll start with you.

MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I don't think publicly it's any -- I don't think that people should use the word, journalists shouldn't use it. I think it's an inappropriate word to use.

However, it's like profanity now really. Where it went -- it used to be kind of the slow -- it started out as a slow southern way to say Negro, it was a slur, and then it became this really racially charged word. And we've seen that with words -- not just this word.

We've seen that with other words in our history. So I say no in a public forum, but I don't want to burn books, I don't want to start taping people at home. I don't want people to have -- you know, where they are afraid to say anything anywhere. But I think publicly you have to figure you're going to see it on the front page of the newspaper and be careful.

PHILLIPS: Frank, you're the music guru. What about the way rappers...

FRANK SKI, RADIO HOST: Why do I have to be the music guru?

PHILLIPS: You are the music -- you know what? I can throw out any song, any group and you are going to know what I'm talking about.

SKI: Right.

PHILLIPS: Why is it OK for blacks to use the word amongst themselves? Why is it OK to have it in music? Why is it OK for rappers to be able to use it like it is no big deal?

SKI: Right. I think there was a disconnect between the generations using it now as opposed to the generation that doesn't want to use it, that could have taught those lessons about why the word was bad.

The word became part of that modern culture that you're talking about, and it became kind of like an affectionate way of talking to each other in some sense. And then the other sense, a malicious way.

It's kind of like the word that has two meanings. You can say, hey, that's my -- and that's like an affectionate way of saying that's my boy, that's my comrade, that's my partner.

PHILLIPS: But is that OK now in 2007?

SKI: It depends on who is saying it to when and when. And that's the unfortunate part about it. It depends on who is saying it to who and when they're using it.

PHILLIPS: It's a double standard.

SKI: Like she says -- privately, it is a double standard. It's like -- B-word. I know women that call their best girlfriend the B- word amongst girlfriends and it's OK. But you're not going to -- I'm not going to able to call it.

PHILLIPS: They've softened up a little bit. It's biotch. It's not really the straight out word. OK?

SKI: Right. Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: The N-word is the N-word.

SKI: Well, you're the music guru.

LEMON: No, there's a different pronunciation because one is-E-R and the other is A or A-H.

SKI: Right.

LEMON: So when you say it -- we're not going to get a chance for all of you to respond, because I know you're champing at the bit to do this, but we can't. My partner has a special on nooses that's airing tonight, right? And nooses, top of the news, lots of incidents have been happening lately.

And you know what? This is the first time I've really seen the noose in all of my years as a symbol of hate being used rather than calling someone something or using a swastika for maybe a Jewish person. This is really the first time that I remember seeing this.

What do you make of all of these incidents?

REGINALD MCKINLEY II, STUDENT, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE: I think it speaks to the underlying themes that we have in America that no one wants to discuss. It's that purple elephant in the room that we often look past as if it's not here. It's the understanding that there is a racism that is at the basis of what is occurring and yet we don't discuss it in our judicial system.

LEMON: When you see -- obvious question, though -- when you see it, are you offended by it?

MCKINLEY: I am. I am.

LEMON: Do you think there's a surge in the incidents, or do you think it's just more being reported, or copycats?

MCKINLEY: Exactly. I think it's more -- I think it's more or less being televised as opposed to before -- it was occurring. Racism has not died, it hasn't gone away. The '60s wasn't the end of it, and it's been here, it's alive. And yet, it's one of those things where it's now being televised.

LEMON: Go ahead.

ZOLLER: Well, the Jena 6 incident happened several months before we ever knew about the noose hanging from the tree. Then there was a picture to go with it with the noose hanging from the tree. And what was it, a week later when the noose showed up on the Columbia University professor's door?

And sometimes I think -- and, you know, I've raised children, I have teenagers in my house. Sometimes it's better to just get rid of whatever it is, throw it away, deal with it, and not make a huge deal about it. Sometimes you're giving it credence by giving it a lot of attention.

PHILLIPS: Frank, let me ask you about education-wise, because as I traveled across the country it was interesting. Everybody knew about the Holocaust, everybody knew what the swastika meant, but it seemed like I was teaching a lot of the kids about the noose and about lynching.

Do you remember learning about lynching, do you remember learning about the Holocaust? What do you remember the most?

SKI: Not much about lynching, but I think the thing that's been left out is that it goes -- the nooses go with the N-word. You've got to understand, the N-word has been so desensitized that calling somebody the N-word doesn't have the effect anymore. Writing the N- word on a wall is like, oh, somebody wrote that on a wall, oh, boy, that's bad. So when they saw that noose that became like, oh, now I can get the response I want.

It's almost like abuse. It's like, I touched you today. But if I touch you again you got used to it. So now I've got to hit you.

You know what I mean?

ZOLLER: Right.

SKI: So it's kind of like the noose takes it to the different level now. Now you're going to get my attention now, and it's those same people.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I'm afraid we have to move on. That's going to have to be the last word for now. And you guys are going to hang around a little bit.

Frank Ski, Martha Zoller and Reginald McKinley, thank you. We'll see you in a little bit.

PHILLIPS: Stay with us. We're going to talk some more.

We want to quickly take you now to Washington, D.C. We're awaiting for that news conference to happen.

The governors of Florida, Alabama and Georgia have been meeting with the interior secretary to talk about this historic drought that is plaguing the three states. You've seen the pictures, you've seen the lakes the way they have dropped, you've seen -- especially if you live in the state -- that you're not able to use your sprinklers, you're not getting fresh drinking water.

You have to go to a restaurant, you have to ask for a glass of water now. They don't just bring it to you.

What's going to happen? How are we going to get more water in these three states?

Hopefully we'll have a solution for you when they step up to the mikes.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

LEMON: All right. Imagine this, exploding beneath you... that. Whoa. And living to talk about.

We'll hear from a survivor of this summer's deadly steam pipe blast -- remember that -- in New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Let's get straight to the newsroom, Fredericka Whitfield with details on a developing story out of Florida involving lethal injections, Fred?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. This coming from the Supreme Court of Florida which could have ripple effects throughout the country, but let's focus on Florida. As for now, the Supreme Court has given the green light for the lethal injection procedures that they carry out in Florida saying that it is not cruel and unusual punishment. You'll recall that it was last year the execution of an Angel Diaz which took 34 minutes, twice as long as usual, and that case spawned this protest or concern that perhaps lethal injections carried out in this state were cruel and unusual. At the time then Governor Bush imposed a moratorium halting any more executions by way of lethal injections and now the Supreme Court decision after weighing many options and also being convinced by the corrections department that they had imposed better training and also upgraded their systems of lethal injections. The Supreme Court then agreeing with them saying that indeed lethal injections are not cruel and unusual punishment which also means that it kind of gives the green light, it gives the go ahead, opens the door for a scheduled execution. That is November 15th there in Florida of a Mark Dean Schwab, he was convicted of raping and molesting and killing an 11- year-old, so it is possible that that case will go on. It was his case, his attorneys, which objected to the lethal injection which is what brought this case to the Supreme Court in the first place, so now it appears that this November 15th execution just might take place as scheduled there in Florida as a result of this Supreme Court ruling.

PHILLIPS: Fred, thanks for the update.

LEMON: Meantime, we want to get you back to Washington. The problem that's happening here in the south and the southeast and they're going to have to fix it in Washington. They are holding a joint conference there to talk about the problems, the governors of Alabama, Georgia, Florida, talking about the problem with the drought. You see all that dry land. That's lake bed. That's supposed to be water. They are meeting with the secretary of interior Dirk Kempthorne to talk about how they're going to fix this problem and what we need to do in the future. We just got the two-minute warning about 30 seconds ago and we'll get you back to that just as soon as it happens. Live pictures now from Washington.

PHILLIPS: We're going to monitor that, as we wait for that live event, also we're keeping a close eye on this picture of the Dow. It's up as we continue to monitor the drop. We're going to follow it all the way to the closing bell right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. So right there in the corner of the screen you can see that we're following those numbers and now we're going to take the interior secretary on the drought situation.

DIRK KEMPTHORNE, SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR: I'm Dirk Kempthorne, secretary of the interior. I'm joined by Jim Conniton(ph), who is the chairman of the Council on Environmental Quality and by Governor Sonny Perdue of Georgia, Governor Bob Riley of Alabama and Governor Charlie Crist of Florida and by General Van Antwerp, who is the chief of the corps of engineers. We've had an opportunity today to have very good discussions about an issue that is absolutely critical to the well- being of people and to our environment, and its water. And we believe that this is the best opportunity for us to find a solution with regard to water and its allocation and use and meeting the needs of all the interests of the different states to find the solution now because it's no longer theory. There is a drought in the south. It is also important to recognize that the solution can and will come from the governors. They have done an outstanding job in articulating the needs of the citizens that they serve, of the uses that the water needs to provide, whether it's agriculture, drinking water, agriculture as I say, the habitat, recreation, power, species, etcetera. They are looking out for the interests of their respective states, but they are doing it while also recognizing that they're good neighbors. This is important to the president, and that's why the president asked Chairman Conniton and myself to go in and meet with the governors in their respective areas, their respective states, but then to reconvene today here in Washington at the interior building and to have these discussions.

Some of the things that have come from that is the fact that those of you that follow this closely or are from the south, you know that there are two river basins, two water basins. They are referred to as ACF and ACT, just the first initials of the respective rivers in those drainages. We know that we need to look at both of these drainages. It cannot be just one dealt with solely by itself because of the importance to the region to Alabama, Georgia and Florida combined. The corps has a variety of things that they have looked at in both of these regions. But they're going to demonstrate that they're giving the same attention to both of these water drainages. They believe that they have been doing so, but we want to make sure that we have shared facts and that we have the same perceptions and not misperceptions. The current core of engineers operating plan with regard to drought is inadequate and therefore, we believe that the first step that we can take, that these governors will take is to in a collaborative fashion come up with what they are going to propose will be that addendum to the operating manual for the corps of engineers. The corps of engineers has pledged that they will then write the addendum based on the direction they have been given by the governors as opposed to the corps writing it initially and having the governors ratify.

It's very important. This has to come from the states because absent it coming from the states and if this issue which has been going on for at least 18 years does not have a resolution among the states, it ultimately goes to a federal court where millions of dollars will be spent without anybody understanding what the final outcome will be and who are the winners and losers. We're fortunate that we have these three governors with their professionalism, their dedication, their skills and the camaraderie to sit down and to really tackle this. If it were easy it would have been done 18 years ago. It won't be solved in 18 days. There's a commitment that this addendum with regard to drought will be accomplished by mid-February. The governors will meet again next during the month of December. The corps will then take that work from the governors and they will then be able to craft that so that it is an addendum to that operating manual.

LEMON: The secretary of interior Dirk Kempthorne acting really as a mediator between Governor Bob Riley, Florida Governor Charlie Crist and Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue saying that there needs to be an amendment, an amendment needs to be written in the current language about the water flow situation with the army corps of engineers and some sort of legislation needs to be done saying that the problem can only be solved by these governors and also the army corps of engineers. The governors are going to speak at this press conference soon, there are going to be some speakers in between. We'll get back to them as soon as they speak, right here in CNN NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: Also, race in America, what do you think about all of these nooses that have been hung across the country? What do you think about using the "n" word? We're going to continue our panel discussion with Atlanta radio host Martha Zoller, Frank Ski and Morehouse College Student Reginald McKinley. That's coming up right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A hate-filled symbol from America's past is causing a lot of hard feelings right now. Nooses have cropped up in a number of places from a police station in New York State to a professor's office at Columbia University. It's also showing up in even less likely places. African-American comedian Kat Williams wore a noose to last month's BET hip hop awards show right here in Atlanta. He was blasted by critics who accused him of making a mockery of racism. So why are we hearing so much about nooses lately?

PHILLIPS: And why does one symbol illicit so many different responses and emotions?

LEMON: Let's go back to our panel now and talk about these symbols.

You wanted to talk before we finished our conversation last time.

MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think one of the things we've got to remember and this goes into other things we may talk about regarding history and understanding history. I think there's a real cutoff line that sometimes younger people, white and black, don't really understand as much about the symbols as maybe older people do. But one of the problems is that there are still cases. Tyrone Brooks of the Georgia Legislature, there are still cases that the FBI has information. They know who committed crimes, heinous crimes in the '40s and '50s and '60s and there's been no justice. And what happens is when you let those kinds of things fester, even though they may not be on the forefront, then it creates these kind of problems.

PHILLIPS: Frank, it's not just white people but black people I found, too, when I was putting together this investigative hour that they don't want to talk about it. There were curators of museums, black curators, that didn't want without sanctuary exhibit in their museums, these pictures of lynchings, because they were ashamed of it, they were afraid of the controversy, that they would lose money at the museum.

FRANK SKI, "FRANK AND WANDA IN THE MORNING": That's part of the problem. The problem is, that in order to change the system and to change what you're seeing, you have to change with the children so it has to be a situation where stop being so insulted by yourself or stop thinking about how you feel about it or how we feel about it as adults and let's talk to the younger people about it because we have to erase this with the younger people. Remember, racism is a learned behavior. It's not something someone is born with. It's a learned behavior and unless you cut off that chain that keeps getting passed down from generation to generation to generation, you're always going to have it. Young people don't have a problem talking about those things, so let's talk about it with them. Let's open the door with them and let's deal with it. Let's talk about it and let's tell them what's right and wrong and let's move forward.

LEMON: Well let's talk about that with a Morehouse student, because we spoke about it last night with college students and high school kids and you spoke about it with kids as well. They learned again about the Holocaust in school, and they are taught a lot about that and they all sympathize and know the importance but they're not taught about lynchings. This was very interesting to me because one of the students last night said, you know, especially if it's a white teacher, they said it's like touching a hot stove. They will tell us about it and they get off the subject because they don't want to be offensive or offend anybody.

REGINALD MCKINLEY II, STUDENT, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE: It's the simple fact that they don't understand so it's further that their lack of knowledge or ignorance to the issue is what has them jump on and jump off. But what I'm going to discuss is inadequacies within education because what we're discussing right now is the portrayal of history. And history is portrayed through the viewpoint of the writer and the current issue that we have is all the writers of these textbooks or these widely used textbooks in the public schools and the private school sectors are predominantly non-minority intellectual scholars. And so what we need to do to get a understanding of the truths that are represented in the African-American Diaspora, that are represented in the Jewish American, the Japanese-American, all these different aspects are the scholars from these different demographics need to step up and begin to write about these atrocities and things that did occur so the truths about their existence can be given to the younger generations. Because currently you look it's being portrayed that slavery was nothing more than enlisted help. I don't think at one point in time I was enlisted or I was asked if I wanted to help.

LEMON: When you say I, and we have to wrap it up, because it's interesting that you say I.

MCKINLEY: It's just one of those things. I am Jena six. I am this, encompassed racism. I am all the aspects that America was built on good and bad. And until we pull that into ourselves and understand that we have to operate from the inside out, we can't really function and change.

LEMON: It's just really interesting to me that you say that, because that's a very heavy burden to carry around. I am all these things. That's a lot.

ZOLLER: Well and it's a heavy burden for all of us too. Am I the embodiment of all of that? I mean my ancestors in South Carolina owned two slaves, that there's a bill of sale in our family history for two human beings and I don't associate with that. I mean, it's part of my history but it's no more than looking at a piece of paper for me because it went, you know, far beyond that from where we are.

SKI: You benefited from it. See that's the difference, you benefited from it.

ZOLLER: But did you benefit from it when you lost everything in the depression and everybody started over, is there still a benefit?

SKI: But you still benefited from it. You benefited from it and you continue to benefit from it.

PHILLIPS: When you hear something like this, does it make you mad, do you feel differently?

SKI: No, it doesn't make me mad. It just means we need to have discussion. See the thing that people don't understand is America is a great country. But there are two sides of America. The reason why America is great is because it was built on free labor. That is why. Ok get any company right -- what are we dealing with in America right now? We're dealing with minorities and immigrants being here, cheap labor. Imagine having that labor for free. Who couldn't succeed? All these companies that were around succeeded and that generational wealth keeps getting passed down and passed down and passed down and it goes into so many different sectors, it goes into education, it goes into every aspect of America and until you really admit that you benefited from it, you're not really admitting that there was a problem.

LEMON: We could talk about this all day because Kyra and I get the same thing -- we talk about this all the time, but we have to move on. This is a very interesting topic.

PHILLIPS: But we have another segment ahead, Reginald, Martha, Frank, stay with us, ok. We're going to continue the discussion.

SKI: I'm going on her show.

PHILLIPS: I can't wait. It's true, Martha will be on Frank's show, Frank will be on Martha's show, Reginald you'll get in there.

MCKINLEY: I'll do both shows.

PHILLIPS: There you go. And you're in. We're going to talk about the CNN special investigation that you won't want to miss, "The Noose an American Nightmare." Catch it tonight only on CNN. And to find out more about noose incidents across the country or watch online videos on racial issues, racial issues that all of us here are talking about today, we'll be talking about it more in the next hour. The Noose @cnn.com/noose.

LEMON: More news out of Texas, police with an emotional plea to identify a dead toddler. Fred will have that right after the break.

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LEMON: Breaking news out of Texas. Fredericka Whitfield joins us now. Police with an emotional plea to identify a dead toddler. Fred?

WHITFIELD: Right, Don, a toddler they're calling Baby Grace because this little girl who is estimated to be between 3 and 5 years old, the body of this little girl wearing a shoe like this apparently was found in a storage box which washed ashore in the west Galveston bay. It's believed that she may have been dead about two weeks. Well, this shoe, and the appearance of this shoe is the key police believe to how they can identify this little girl. It's believed that she was wearing a shoe like this one, white tennis shoe with pink and purple markings. She was dressed in a Cherokee label matching pink pullover top and skirt. These shoes also have a little LED light on it. It's a discontinued brand that comes from Wal-Mart, by the way, and this is why police are releasing this kind of information or at least investigators as a whole. This is why they are releasing this kind of information about the little girl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEPHEN PUSTILNIK, GALVESTON COUNTY CHIEF MED. EXAMINER: Someone is missing this child. There is a grandparent who hasn't seen their grandchild in the last couple of weeks. There's a playmate who is missing their playmate and hasn't seen them for a while. There's an aunt, there's an uncle some place, maybe locally, maybe somewhere in the state, maybe somewhere around this nation who has not seen this tragic end of this little girl and what she came to. We would like to appeal to everybody to help us identify this little child and help us solve the mystery of how this child came to her tragic end to be found floating in a box in the waters of Galveston county.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Horrible situation. They believe this little girl is somewhere between 32 and 34 inches long, weighing about 25 to 30 pounds and wore an 8.5 size shoe. Again, they do believe she is between 3 and 5 even though those sizes are rather small. Here is the number that you need to call if you're in the south Texas area and know anything about this little girl or the description. Call the Galveston Sheriff's Department at 409-766-2222, and authorities are also working on a sketch based on the bone structure of this little body to see if a sketch will in any way jar anyone's memory. Don?

LEMON: Fred, what's that number again? Oh there it is, 409.

WHITFIELD: 766-2222.

LEMON: Ok, it's important to get that up. Thanks you very much for that Fredricka. We'll check back.

PHILLIPS: He rarely gave interviews but when he did he offered no regrets about his role in history, Paul Tibbets, the pilot of the plane that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima died today at his home in Columbus, Ohio. He dropped that bomb on the morning of August 6, 1945 from his B29 named Enola Gay. The blast killed an estimated 7 to 100,000 people. It was the beginning of the end of World War II. Tibbets retired as a brigadier general in 1966. He always rejected critics of the bombing and in a 2005 interview with CNN's Miles O'Brien he defended the use of the atomic bomb.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: How do you square the lives you saved with the lives that were lost that day?

PAUL TIBBETS, PILOT OF THE ENOLA GAY: Based on personal experience I seldom go anywhere over the years where somebody doesn't come up to me and say I was scheduled for that invasion. You saved my neck, and I said that's good news. I'm glad I could.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Paul Tibbets pilot of the Enola Gay dead at the age of 92.

LEMON: The ozone hole is shrinking and the reason may surprise you. We'll have the whole truth coming up.

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