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CNN NEWSROOM

Pakistan in Crisis; Broadway Strike Possible; Norman Mailer Dies at 84; Sex Talk for Teens; Dems Seek Rocky Mountain Votes; Transplant Tourism

Aired November 10, 2007 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA LING, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC (voice over): Across the globe, transplant tourism has taken hold. In India alone, there are some 2,000 kidney transplants performed a year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: So do you need a kidney? Hey, maybe even a lung? Perhaps even a heart? Would you travel around the world to get one?

I'm going to talk with National Geographic's Lisa Ling about this fascinating subject.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The method we don't recommend is the pull and pray. It's a reason I have two of my three children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: What? OK. It's Saturday morning.

NGUYEN: Oh my.

HOLMES: Goodness. I don't know if this is the best time to be talking sex with your kids on a Saturday morning. It's the "Midwest Teen Sex Show." You are going to have to stick around so we can explain this.

NGUYEN: And that's a home video. Oh, my.

OK. How low can you go? Well, new poll numbers are out on President Bush and the Democratic-led Congress. Our Bill Schneider brings us the insight only he can provide.

From the CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM.

It is Saturday, folks, November 10th.

Good morning. I'm Betty Nguyen.

HOLMES: And I'm T.J. Holmes. So glad you could be here -- 10:00 a.m. here in Atlanta, Georgia, 7:00 a.m. in San Francisco, California, where volunteers are lining up to clean up area beaches.

NGUYEN: It's a mess.

HOLMES: Yes, it's a mess out there. We'll get you caught up on that.

Also, get you caught up right now on news around the world.

NGUYEN: Yes. We do want to start with Pakistan, where protesters are clashing again with police. We're getting word now of new demonstrations in this week-old crisis.

CNN's Zain Verjee is following developments from Islamabad, where she joins us via broadband.

Not only some violence, but I understand they are kicking media out. Does that include CNN?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Well, CNN is currently off the air and so is the BBC and other international media channels. But really what we saw today were more clashes, this time in the north of the country in the city of Peshawar. Hundreds of demonstrators clashed with police there.

There were also protests here in the capital city of Islamabad by lawyers, as well as journalists. There's been a major crackdown in this country on both.

Now, the opposition leader, Benazir Bhutto, who was under house arrest yesterday, was out and about today, and she joined the journalists in their protest. We spoke to her actually a few hours ago. And the question everyone in this country has been asking is that, will Benazir Bhutto make some kind of deal, some kind of power- sharing arrangement with General Musharraf?

We talked to her a little bit about that. But I started by asking her if she has spoken directly to Musharraf. Here's how she responded.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BENAZIR BHUTTO, FMR. PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: I have not spoken to him since we decided to part the ways for this public protest. But before we parted ways, I did speak to him.

VERJEE: When did you speak to him? Directly on the phone or in person?

BHUTTO: Not recently. Not since we have decided as a party not to have any more contact.

VERJEE: But your advisers are speaking to his advisers, so there is -- there has been contact and discussion. BHUTTO: I have told my advisers not to speak and that they are not mandated to speak. And I have told them that unless General Musharraf retires as chief of army staff as constitutionally mandated, and unless the election schedule is adhered to, we should not send conflicting messages.

VERJEE: So you are saying on the record that you will categorically not speak to have any kind of communication with General Musharraf right now? You have nothing to do with him?

BHUTTO: That's right, unless he meets these conditions. And then we can review the situation.

VERJEE: What do you say to critics, though, who say Benazir Bhutto is really playing a double game here? You know, you are sitting on the fence, on the one hand calling for mass protests. On the other hand, still leaving the door open for negotiations. And you are the person in the country that can really mobilize the people on the streets and you are using that as leverage over General Musharraf.

BHUTTO: Well, I would say that it's partially wrong and it's partially true. I'm not playing a double game. I'm very open about it, but I'm playing a middle game. I'm taking the middle part.

I'm not taking an extreme part. I'm taking a middle part. And I have a different responsibility.

There are some leaders in this country who do not have the strength to win an election and cannot form a government. And they can take an extreme position and play to the gallery. But my responsibility and that of other regional parties that can form governments is a different one.

And so I'm taking a middle part like them, saying that these are the demands and this is what we want done. And if it's not done, well, he should step aside.

VERJEE: Do you commit yourself to restoration of the Pakistani judiciary headed by Chief Justice Chaudhry just the way it was before the state of emergency was declared? Is that what you want?

BHUTTO: Well, I certainly want the revival of the constitution. And that includes the restoration of the chief justice and the other judges of the supreme court.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: And Benazir Bhutto today tried to go to the home of the chief justice, the ousted chief justice, Iftikhar Chaudhry, but she wasn't allowed to go and see him. He's under house arrest. The attorney general today also said that the state of emergency would be lifted in a month.

NGUYEN: Zain, I want to get back to the question that I asked you at the top dealing with the journalists, the media that's being kicked out of Pakistan. We know that British newspaper reporters have been affected. Again, the fact that CNN is off the air, what about reporters, journalists like you with CNN? Are we going to be told to be packing up our bags and leaving?

VERJEE: Well, it depends what we say on the air and how the government interprets and construes that. And so far we've been able to say whatever we want, and that hasn't become an issue for CNN.

But it has -- this time the government has confirmed it has become an issue for three "Daily Telegraph" reporters. That's a British newspaper. They are basically being kicked out of the country.

The government has said you have 72 hours to get out. The government is saying that the newspaper used foul and abusive language directed against the government and against the country's leadership. So they are throwing them out.

NGUYEN: All right. It's a watch-and-see mode.

Zain Verjee joining us live.

Thank you, Zain.

HOLMES: Six U.S. service members are dead after an ambush in Afghanistan. They were serving in a NATO security force.

The insurgent attack happened while the troops were on foot patrol in eastern Afghanistan. At least one insurgent was killed as well. The deaths now make 2007 the deadliest year for the U.S. military there, with 100 total casualties.

NGUYEN: New this morning, the death of writer Norman Mailer. The famous author died early this morning in New York at the age of 84.

HOLMES: And Mailer was among the most celebrated and prolific writers of his generation with 39 published titles. He won two Pulitzer Prizes.

NGUYEN: Mailer's own life was just as colorful as any novel. He was instrumental in helping prison inmate Jack Abbott write the bestseller "In the Belly of the Beast," and he lobbied hard for Abbott's parole in 1981.

HOLMES: And that led to many people later blaming Mailer when Abbott killed another man shortly after getting out of prison.

Well, one hour to go...

NGUYEN: Yes.

HOLMES: ... for a possible big hit.

NGUYEN: Or...

HOLMES: Yes, not the kind of hit on Broadway you really want. This is not the good kind.

NGUYEN: Not at all, because stagehands, the union, in fact, may be getting ready to walk out. It is strike time.

And CNN's Jim Acosta is live on the Great White Way, which may be turning dark tonight.

Hey, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Betty, that's right.

And if this strike is official -- and we believe it's official, we haven't heard from a union yet -- but how is this for official behind me? That's right, the stagehands, as it appears, have gone on hand. We can see the picket signs behind us.

This just started a new moments ago as we were setting up for this live report. But, yes, the picket signs were out there.

They were picketing right in front of the theater where "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" was scheduled to have its 11:00 matinee. And you can see some other people just standing right in front of the picketers. From what we understand, that's the cast from "How the Grinch Stole Christmas," and so somewhere in there is Cindy Lou Who, I guess, with a tear streaming down her face this morning, if I could add that.

But this is going to be a serious problem for New York. Right before the lucrative Broadway season here, during the holiday season here in New York. About 24-plus shows will be affected by this work stoppage.

It's not certain how long this is going to go on. There was some disagreement between the stagehands. Those are the guys that do a lot of the technical behind-the-scenes work during these productions. Between those stagehands and the theater owners over just how many stagehands can be on the clock at a time during a production. These talks have been going on for several months now, and these two sides just have not been able to come to an agreement.

But we've already started to talk to some of the theatergoers out here, and as you well know, there are people who come from all over the country, all around the world to see these Broadway shows. So lots of money. Lots of people spend a lot of money to come to these shows.

And according to theater owners, those tickets will be refunded if these shows are canceled. But what do you do? Boy, you book a big trip to New York City to see a Broadway show and your show is canceled, that is not a good situation. And both of these sides know it.

It's unclear at this point as to how long this is going to go on. But as you can see behind me, this strike is on. It's happening now -- Betty.

NGUYEN: All right.

Jim Acosta joining us live.

Thank you, Jim.

Want to get back to the story that we just told you a little bit earlier about Norman Mailer, a celebrated author who has died this morning. In fact, someone that knows him pretty well, author Tom Wolfe, joins us by phone.

And Tom, you've written a number of books yourself -- "The Right Stuff," "The Bonfire of The Vanities." When we talk about Mailer, this man has done a lot for the literary world.

How is he going to be remembered? How are you going to remember him?

TOM WOLFE, AUTHOR: I'm going to miss him tremendously. We had so many feuds going back to -- oh, my goodness, about 1964, which at the time seemed very serious matters.

NGUYEN: What were you feuding over? What was the spark between you two?

WOLFE: Oh, I can hardly...

NGUYEN: You don't remember?

WOLFE: Well, it began -- it began when I reviewed Mailer's novel "An American Dream." And I said that he had stolen the plot from Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment."

NGUYEN: Ooh. Wow.

WOLFE: That's the great mighty level these things were on. But when I look back -- as I said, it all seemed very serious at the time. But looking back on it, I can see that he was a tremendous source of energy in the whole literary world. He was like a motor, a generator.

NGUYEN: Oh, my goodness. Well, you know, let's talk a little bit about his life, because this is a man who drank, who did drugs, who fought, who married six times, and stabbed his second wife. I mean, this is a man who had a life that was just as interesting as his books.

WOLFE: Well, six times, that shows the energy that he had.

NGUYEN: Yes. Nine children, I believe.

WOLFE: Norman had a huge personality, and I think some of his best work was when he was writing about the literary world. One that sticks in my mind was a piece called -- from way back -- called "The Other Talent in the Room" in which he measured himself against all the other well-known novelists on the scene.

NGUYEN: And how did he stack up in his eyes? WOLFE: Well, I was -- I hadn't even written a book. This goes back -- back to the '50s, I guess. I hadn't even written a book.

NGUYEN: Well, how did Mailer stack up in his eyes?

WOLFE: I'm sorry, in his own eyes?

NGUYEN: Yes.

WOLFE: I think he did pretty well in his own eyes.

NGUYEN: You think?

WOLFE: He was not -- you know, he was not short on ego. But he made -- he made the whole enterprise just seem delightful. In the middle of a feud, he would strike sort of a ferocious mode. In person, I found him a courtly gentleman. And he could be -- he could be extremely charming.

NGUYEN: Well, he's definitely a celebrated man for the works that he has created and just the stamp that he's going to leave on the literary world.

Tom Wolfe, author yourself, a contemporary classic author as well. We do appreciate your time spending it with us and talking a little bit about Mailer, who will be remembered today.

WOLFE: Well, I -- and I am so -- I am just deeply sorry this has happened.

NGUYEN: Yes, absolutely.

Thank you for your time.

WOLFE: Right.

HOLMES: Well, we'll turn to a story here that's probably going to get your attention. Do you know someone who needs maybe a new heart? And we don't mean figuratively here. Literally a new heart.

NGUYEN: Yes.

HOLMES: Maybe a new kidney. Well, the wait sometimes for these organs can mean the difference between life or death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. This one matches. This one matches. And that was pretty much the most nervous I've ever been in my life, especially when nobody speaks English.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Well, Americans aren't waiting. They are actually traveling around the world to get the organ that they need. And I'm going to talk with National Geographic's Lisa Ling about her new documentary on the body trade.

HOLMES: Also, get on board the CNN Election Express, the only bus that brings the issues to your hometown. Is your hometown Denver, Colorado? Because that's where the bus is hanging out right now, and so is our Bill Schneider. He'll join us in just a minute to talk about the Rocky Mountain influence.

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the "Midwest Teen Sex Show." I'm Nicole (ph), and this week we're talking about birth control.

We know there are a lot of you still out there having unprotected sex. So stop it. Have you ever seen a baby? They are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) stupid. They don't know anything and you have to feed them at least once a day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And good morning to you. All right, folks. Don't go off on us too bad here. There's an explanation. And actually, a serious and a positive message even behind this edgy production.

NGUYEN: Yes, Josh Levs of the dotcom desk has been checking out the "Midwest Teen Sex Show" podcast.

And Josh, I don't even want to know what you Googled to find that.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: What were you doing? How did you find that?

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was in "The Wall Street Journal."

NGUYEN: Oh yes, sure.

LEVS: I know. I just took away her little play on -- I'm sorry about that. Get your mind out of the gutter. It's 10:00 in the morning.

NGUYEN: It's not in the gutter. They're talking about teen sex and they are getting pretty graphic with it.

LEVS: I know. And if you hear what she's saying -- I mean, the theory is that if you speak kids' language, teens' language, that they'll really get excited about it and they'll start to pay more attention than they do to sex ed in classrooms. But obviously it's not literal. I mean, feeding a kid once a day -- try a newborn 10 times.

And that's kind of what's going on here. It's a really interesting idea.

It's called the "Midwest Teen Sex Show," and it's available online. It has become a very popular download.

It's been top 10 on Health and iTunes. And we saw this in "The Wall Street Journal," and they're pointing out some interesting things. That on the one hand, these are a couple of 28-year-olds who say, you know what? The stuff that teens are getting today in health classes is just -- doesn't speak their language. It's not always totally blatant and putting in their face the realities that they would face if they're not careful with their sex lives.

But on the flip side, you do have some people who are concerned about it. The article quotes someone from Planned Parenthood who says, you know what? It's great to try to reach out to teens, but when you have information that's not being medically checked, it's really something you need to be very careful about, because there might be kids who take it literally.

Maybe there will be some kids out there who think, wow, you have to feed a baby one time a day. So this is the interplay.

But the idea that it gets to and the reason it's taking off is that there are a lot of teens who do indeed feel that they're not getting straight talk in school. A lot of them are not getting it at home. They aren't getting it from their parents.

So along comes a couple of 28-year-olds who say, you know what? They're shooting this for free in their basement and they saying, here's something where we're going to talk straight to you, give you what it's like for us.

NGUYEN: Well, and we saw some video earlier. It's not this one, but you saw a guy and a girl. It looked like they were in the back seat of a car.

LEVS: Yes.

NGUYEN: I mean, are they doing some reenactments with this?

LEVS: Yes, there's actual reenactments.

NGUYEN: Really?

LEVS: When you talk about edgy, some of it is very edgy.

NGUYEN: So do they teach...

LEVS: And parents want to know.

NGUYEN: ... kids what to do and how to kind of avoid getting in those situations, or is it just to teach you how to be safe in those situations?

LEVS: A little of each. They're stressing that it's not pornographic. There's no actual display of sex. And they're trying to focus -- from what we're seeing, they're trying to focus mostly on what having sex can do.

NGUYEN: Got you.

LEVS: But they are still talking about safety, being safe within those situations. They're trying to be real straight, like, here's what it's like for us. Here's the reality in your face. And it's having an effect, and so it shows there is a need out there.

NGUYEN: "Midwest Teen Sex Show."

LEVS: "Midwest Teen Sex Show." See it online, yes.

NGUYEN: All right, Josh.

HOLMES: (INAUDIBLE) gets the attention as well.

LEVS: Yes.

HOLMES: All right. Josh, we appreciate it.

LEVS: Thanks, guys.

HOLMES: All right, folks. Time to check that toy box again. You probably feel like you just need to take the whole box...

NGUYEN: Throw it away.

HOLMES: ... take it out to the curb, just throw it all away. What toy can you trust these days? The latest recall now involves toys and the date rape drug? We'll explain this one.

NGUYEN: And check these scars out. Look at them right there. You see all those? Men and women around the world are selling their body parts. We're going to show you the dark side of transplant tourism.

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HOLMES: All right. Hello again, folks. CNN here, keeping you informed.

(NEWSBREAK)

HOLMES: Well, a rocky road ahead for the Democrats. But, hey, that's just how they want it to be.

Bill Schneider has pulled into Denver aboard the Election Express to tell us why Colorado could be critical in '08. And he is looking fly out there.

Nice hat. You're looking good. How are things going out there in Denver?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Pretty good. This is my motoring costume, T.J.

HOLMES: It looks good.

SCHNEIDER: Well, they do look -- thank you. Things do look good for the Democrats here. They're going to be meetings here in Denver for their convention next August. And one of the reasons they picked Denver is that Colorado, along with the other Rocky Mountain states, have been areas where Democrats have made big gains.

For the first time in 40 years, 40 years, they control both the state legislature and the governorship. They've picked up seats in Congress. They've picked up a Senate seat. And that's generally been true throughout the Rockies.

The population of the mountain west has been growing rapidly. A lot of Latino voters have moved here. A lot of young families, a lot of high tech. And with it, a lot more Democrats.

HOLMES: All right. They are hoping the West can be won. But Congress right now, let's turn to some poll numbers. And, of course, the Democrats control Congress right now. And people aren't too happy with Congress and would be all right if a lot of them didn't keep their jobs come '08.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. Our poll asked people, "Do you think that most members of Congress deserve to be re-elected?" And 53 percent of Americans said, no, they don't. They want out.

They think that Congress has not done its job. They voted for a Democratic Congress last year. They are not happy with it. Americans are voting for change.

HOLMES: OK. Well, we see that number right there, that people don't think the folks should keep their jobs. Well, Congress is controlled right now for the Democrats. So surely this is bad for them.

SCHNEIDER: Well, that's what a lot of Republicans are counting on. They think that number, that people think most members of Congress should not be reelected, that's going to mean all incumbents in Congress are in trouble, and most of them are Democrats. So Republicans see that as good news.

Is it? Well, remember in 2006, last November, a year ago, people voted for a Democratic Congress because they wanted change. They wanted change from President Bush's policies. Particularly in Iraq. But they haven't gotten change. So they are upset.

Does this mean they'll now vote Republican? No.

Our poll asked people, "How do you intend to vote for Congress if the election were held now?" And the answer is 53-42, they say they're still going to vote for a Democratic Congress. So apparently now, just like a year ago, change means change from the Republican policies of the Bush administration. And that means that Democrats are still hopeful that they can make gains.

The change issue is working in their favor. They hope it will be true a year from now.

HOLMES: All right. We'll see what happens a year from now.

But for now, the Election Express. I know you're enjoying the bus. You are traveling around and you are looking good out there.

Bill Schneider, always good to see you, sir.

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

HOLMES: All right. And what happens in Vegas is going to be aired on national television. That's coming up on Thursday.

It's the CNN Democratic presidential debate in Las Vegas. Wolf Blitzer, John Roberts, and, yes, Campbell Brown, will question the candidates during the first hour. Then undecided registered voters will quiz the candidates. You can tune in Thursday night at 8:00 Eastern.

And of course we are keeping you as well informed on all the candidates. Tune in tomorrow as we profile Republican Tom Tancredo and Democrat Christopher Dodd. Learn where they stand on the issues on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

CNN, the best political team on television.

NGUYEN: So how far would you travel to get a kidney or lung that you needed to survive? Men and women around the world are selling their body parts. And we're going to show you the dark side to transplant tourism.

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(NEWSBREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, if you are waiting for a transplant or know someone who is, you can understand the desperation to get that body part. It's usually a matter of life or death, and because of that, transplant tourism is growing. It's a way to buy body parts on demand.

Lisa Ling went inside the body trade for the National Geographic Channel. Her special airs tomorrow night at 10:00 Eastern. And Lisa joined me earlier from Los Angeles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Let's talk about transplant tourism. I want you to explain what this is. So, say, for example, I need a heart. Where do I start? LING: Well, if you are in the United States and you are confirmed to need a heart, you would hopefully be put on the transplant list. The problem is that you have to wait until your name moves up on the list or someone matches your blood type. But because there is such a huge demand internationally for organs, there are actual companies that can provide you with the hospitals, the doctors, the places to stay, if you want to seek out an organ somehow. And they are known as transplant tourism sites.

NGUYEN: And so what people do is they travel abroad to places where they can buy these organs. But Lisa, aren't you really entrusting a lot into not only the people that you are getting the organ from, but also the doctors? Because, in fact, you have to undergo that surgery there, correct?

LING: The whole business is very, very risky. But what I really love about this documentary is it raises so many fascinating ethical questions about how far one would be willing to go in order to secure an organ for themselves or for someone they love.

I mean, I personally have never felt that sense of desperation, but my husband's mother, at 72 years old, got a heart transplant. So right now she has a 30-year-old heart and a totally new lease on life. But on a personal level, you know, to not know that desperation, you know, you just -- it's impossible to sort of conceive of what that's like.

NGUYEN: Yes, that's true, because when you are on that list, I mean, every day is so crucial. And you do have to wait quite a while. And if you don't get it, it can be life or death. And many times, that is the case.

So let's talk about the ethical question for a second, though, because this is the reality of the situation. I want our viewers to listen to a doctor who you spoke with in China who, in fact, wanted his identity concealed. And he talks about where these organs are coming from.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In China, people don't donate their organs because Chinese philosophy believes that a person needs to have an intact body after death. Then the soul can have peace in heaven. Because of this reason, the number of organs donated by Chinese is very limited, but there are many people waiting to receive organ transplants. We don't even have enough for ourselves. When the foreigners come, they get organs from special channels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: And a lot of those, in fact, are from prisoners.

How legal is this business?

LING: Well, it's not legal. In fact, the doctor who talked to us, he's actually living in exile in Europe. And he was so uncomfortable even with the idea of fuzzing his face that he cut out a cereal box to cover his face because it's so, so deeply sensitive.

Now there's never been any admission by the Chinese government that the harvesting of prisoners' organs happens, but this doctor says that he personally witnessed it.

NGUYEN: Well, you know, it's not only from China. I mean, not only from Chinese prisoners. There are people around the world who are donating their organs. And to understand that, we need to know, one, who is donating it, and how much do they get? What do they get in return for it?

LING: Well, that's the thing. And that's the reason why the whole business of the organ trade is so kind of murky, because there are different laws all over the world.

There are no sort of uniform regulations. In fact, in the United States, if you want to donate a kidney, it's your prerogative, if you want to do so. You just can't be compensated for it.

And my hope with this documentary is that people might feel compelled to at least investigate more about being a donor. In fact, I've had that little sticker on my driver's license since I was 16 years old.

NGUYEN: So have I, yes.

LING: But I didn't even realize -- yes, I didn't realize that one human body can be used for 200 medically useful parts.

NGUYEN: Oh yes.

LING: I mean, that to me is astounding. It could possibly help multiple people.

NGUYEN: Well, and for the people who are selling the organs around the world, I mean, this really sets them up for, what, a year or two years? Because they get a lot of money for that, especially compared to the money they would earn in, say, a year.

LING: Well, we traveled to villages in India where you would visit entire communities where a majority of people have sold their kidneys. I mean, it was pretty surreal to go into these places and ask, "How many of you have sold your kidneys?" And these women will come up and show these giant scars on their bodies.

And for them, the problem is that they are often manipulated because it's a black market. These middlemen come in and they promise them this money, and very often they don't deliver on all of the compensation. So, you know, because it's murky, because it's a black market, there's no regulation.

NGUYEN: And because there is such a desperation for these parts. We talked about it just a little bit earlier.

At the end of the day there's, what, some 97,000 Americans waiting for an organ. Some 17 die each day on that waiting list. So there is that desperation to get the organ.

But at the same time, you talked to the folks who have been selling it. Is there a feeling that wealthy folks around the world are taking advantage of people who desperately need money and will do almost anything to feed their family?

LING: Surprisingly, none of the people I talked to who had sold their kidneys in India felt slighted by wealthy people. They didn't feel exploited by people who needed the organs.

They felt exploited by the middlemen, because it was the middlemen who made these promises. And they knew that the middlemen were going to be compensated somehow. So, in their minds, they actually go into it thinking, we're going to make money, but we're also going to end up having -- or extending someone's life. It's just that they get manipulated by the person in between.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And you can watch Lisa Ling's investigative report, "Explorer: Inside the Body Trade," on the National Geographic Channel. That's tomorrow night at 10:00 Eastern. And we'll have more from Lisa next Saturday on another topic that will get your attention. Listen to this -- wombs for rent.

HOLMES: Yes.

NGUYEN: You can actually rent them out. Women in India are renting their wombs to women in this country who can't get pregnant. And she's going to tell us about that special investigation.

HOLMES: Look forward to seeing that. Heard a little about this story, but...

NGUYEN: It's wild, isn't it?

HOLMES: Wild is a good way...

NGUYEN: It's outsourcing your child.

HOLMES: Your child.

NGUYEN: Think about it.

HOLMES: We outsource a lot of other things, so...

NGUYEN: True.

HOLMES: ... it's only a matter of time.

All right. Look forward to seeing that.

Well, we'll turn out to the San Francisco Bay now, where 58,000 gallons of oil spilled into the bay and spread to the coastline this week. Now officials say most of it cannot be cleaned up and will eventually dissolve into the water. Some globules will remain and could cause problems for months, especially for the sea birds. At this point, volunteers are pitching in to do what they can.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is really us hitting a point of frustration. And we just decided to do something about our backyard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Well, there's growing criticism about how the Coast Guard handled the accident and how long it took them to notify San Francisco officials.

All right. His last wife was found dead in a bathtub. His current wife is nowhere to be found.

Drew Peterson, a police officer, getting a lot of attention, and a much closer look now from Chicago police as his wife's disappearance has gone from a missing person investigation into a suspected homicide case. Stacy Peterson's family members and friends hoping this will now help move this case along.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BOSCO, PETERSON FAMILY SPOKESWOMAN: It's been mixed emotions. The family has gone through a lot this past week. So I think, like I said, the news out today gives us new hope that we will find Stacy, and we hope that this case will progress a little bit faster now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Well, the judge has also signed an order to exhume the body of Drew Peterson's third wife, who, like I said, was found dead in a bathtub in 2004. Now, at the time, the death was ruled an accident.

NGUYEN: All right. Well, space shuttles, T.J., are supposed to travel thousands of miles per hour, right? Just shoot up into the sky.

HOLMES: Supposed to.

NGUYEN: Take a look at that. Yes, it's a live picture. And yes, it is moving.

HOLMES: That thing's not moving.

NGUYEN: Yes it is. It doesn't look like it because -- tell them why, T.J. How fast is that going?

HOLMES: It's going a half a mile an hour. Yes.

NGUYEN: Is that even possible? HOLMES: You can walk...

NGUYEN: Can you even do that in a car?

HOLMES: You can walk faster than the space shuttle. It doesn't seem possible. But it's being moved to the launch pad to get ready for a planned December 6th launch.

Atlantis will be bringing more laboratories to the International Space Station. Now moving Atlantis and the fuel tanks takes about six hours. I think it's only a three-mile journey, but I guess that averages out, a half a mile an hour, three miles. That's six hours.

NGUYEN: It's about the only time when a human can be faster than the space shuttle. Right?

HOLMES: The only time. You're absolutely right.

NGUYEN: Got to put it in context for you.

HOLMES: We've got to get down there and walk past it just to say we did it.

NGUYEN: Say we've done it.

All right. Well, sometimes we just have to show you the pictures and make you say "aw."

Look. Look.

HOLMES: Look at the little kitty. Oh. Oh.

NGUYEN: What's wrong with that cat?

HOLMES: Yes. We don't want to give it away. We'll give you the details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Time now to check in with Kiran Chetry in New York for a preview of what's coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING" next week.

Hi there.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: HILL: , Betty. Good to see you.

Well, Monday, of course, is Veterans Day. And there are some new questions about the military's aging fighter fleet after a Missouri Air National Guard plane crashed during a training exercise last week. That accident forced the Air Force to ground all of its F-15 fighter jets. And until further notice, they will only be used for emergency missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military analysts say that decades of takeoffs, landings and long flights may be taking their toll. But the Air Force says that the cost to replace them would be huge.

So how will this affect our troops and the war on terror? We're going to talk about that.

And also Veterans Day, a chance for the U.S. military to honor their fallen comrades. At Ft. Stewart in Georgia, a tree-lined field known as Warriors Walk stands as a memorial. Red buds are planted on each side. One for each soldier from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division who has died since Operation Iraqi Freedom began in 2003.

So Betty, we're going to bring you that special tribute on Monday morning.

NGUYEN: Looking forward to that.

Also, I know that you spoke with the first sitting member of Congress who is having a baby. What, this is the first time in about 10 years?

CHETRY: Yes, and all eyes were certainly on this member of Congress from Washington State, Cathy McMorris Rodgers. You know, the joy, though, a little bit bittersweet when she found out her baby son would be born with Downs Syndrome.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CATHY MCMORRIS RODGERS (R), WASHINGTON: And I remember when I showed up to the hospital that afternoon, I was -- I was full of tears. Yet even in talking with the doctors that day, they were just -- they were so positive.

And I have heard from others that, you know, we've come a long way as far as even how the doctors share that news with parents. And they were very encouraging to us and made it clear, you know, we're here to help you. And we're here to offer you support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Yes, we're also going to ask her what her colleagues at the Capitol had to say to her. Her situation has certainly sparked national attention and a debate about what you would do since the testing now, you can find out so early about some sort of genetic problems in your children. We're going to talk to her about what her life is like now and why she says baby Cole (ph) has brought so much joy into her life -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Just a precious baby, though.

All right. Thank you, Kiran.

You can see "AMERICAN MORNING" with Kiran Chetry and John Roberts Monday starting at 6:00 a.m. Eastern. HOLMES: Hello there, everybody. It's Saturday, November the 10th. And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. And we are glad you're in the NEWSROOM with us.

I'm T.J. Holmes.

NGUYEN: Yes. Hi there, everybody.

I'm Betty Nguyen.

Happening right now, new protests, but there could be an end in sight to the state of emergency in Pakistan. We talked to the leader of the opposition, Benazir Bhutto, about the crisis.

HOLMES: And they say the show must go on, but that's just something they say, because the curtain is closing on Broadway right now.

We are live with the latest.

NGUYEN: And he was combative, controversial, not to mention one of America's greatest writers.

We are remembering literary lion Norman Mailer in the NEWSROOM.

HOLMES: But up first here, promises and protests in Pakistan. That is the story today, where government promises to have so far failed to silence critics of general and president Pervez Musharraf and his controversial state of emergency that has been declared.

The office of Pakistan's attorney general says the emergency order will end within a month, but so far little evidence that it's winding down. And sources tell CNN three reporters from the British newspaper "The Daily Telegraph" have been ordered to get out of the country.

NGUYEN: Former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto is no longer confined to her home, but she is barred from visiting another prominent person, Musharraf critic, the ousted chief justice of the Supreme Court.

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