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Bird Flu Discovered in England; Prosecutors Look to Bolster Case Against O.J. Simpson; News Conference About Teenager Shot to Death by Cops

Aired November 13, 2007 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you can keep your silver linings. Here in Georgia, we just want the clouds and the rain inside them. The governor is leading the state in prayer for an end to the drought. We are going to ask a rabbi for his outlook this hour.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Answered prayers on Wall Street. The markets bounce back, after days of hair-raising losses. Our business news desk tells us what brought the bulls out, right out of hiding.

Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

He was a young man only 18 years old and died in a hail of gunfire, at least 20 bullets fired at him Monday night in New York City, in Brooklyn, as a matter of fact, when police showed up at his apartment building, after his mother called 911, said he was acting erratically. She says the young man said he had a gun.

Well, workers on the 911 call overheard him saying he had a gun as well. When they showed up at the scene, he's carrying a dark object. Some believed it was a gun, the police officers, that is. Well, it turns out it was a black hairbrush. Now police are investigating this and calling for calm in Brooklyn.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick is keeping track of the latest developments for us.

A press conference could happen at any moment now, Deborah.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we can tell you that the medical examiner has now ruled this shooting a homicide, the victim hit 10 times from his chest all the way down to his ankle.

There is a lot of anger in this community. As a matter of fact, you may hear some shouting. There are small groups of people that have gathered on the street corners. All of this is under investigation right now by the prosecutors and police officers from the internal affairs bureau.

By all accounts, when officers arrived at the apartment here in Becker Stivason (ph), they really believed that this man had a gun because that's what had been overheard by a 911 operator when the mother placed the original call.

We are told that the mother had tried to get her son admitted to a psychiatric unit earlier in the day. But according to police, when they arrived here on the scene, it was not a gun that they saw initially. It was two knives. The victim, Khiel Coppin, lunging at them with those knives. They backed out of the apartment and set up just outside.

Now, at some point, the victim climbed out of the window. He dropped to the ground. He had something in his waistband. And his hand was on that object. Police told him to stand down. They told him to drop the object. Then when he lifted it from his waistband, according to police, and lunged at the officers, that's when they opened fire, shooting 20 bullets, again 10 of them hitting the victim. A lot of anger here in this community, as everyone is urging for calm, but a lot of the young people who we spoke to earlier say this just shouldn't be happening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a good kid. He was all right. He was a regular kid, like any other kid in the street, straight up. That's it. Like, he was probably a little -- not fast as anybody. You know what I'm saying? You feel me? But he was regular kid, man. Like, he was a good kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: One community youth leader who spoke earlier today said that, in fact, talk on the street is that some gang members are actually talking about retaliating against police officers.

But many of the leaders urging calm. A small group did walk over to the precinct demanding justice. Right now, there are a lot of officers just trying to keep a lid on the situation -- back to you, Don.

LEMON: All right, Deborah Feyerick, in Brooklyn -- Deborah, thank you very much.

And also, we want to remind our viewers, again, supposed to happen at the top of the hour. But police in New York are preparing a press conference, specifically Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, to that talk about this incident, what police were facing that night and what exactly happened. They also have the 911 tapes. Not sure if they are going to release them at this press conference.

But CNN will bring that to you if it happens right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: Well, what caused the sudden death of Donda West, the mother of rapper Kanye West. We could get answers sooner than we thought. An autopsy initially slated for tomorrow is happening this afternoon.

Let's get straight to L.A. and CNN's Brooke Anderson -- Brooke. BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN CULTURE AND ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, the L.A. Coroner's Office tells us that, depending on what they find from this preliminary autopsy, doctors will determine if further tests like toxicology tests are needed.

So, we could get preliminary results today, though it could take weeks for final results if toxicology tests are needed. That autopsy was scheduled to begin about half-an-hour ago, could take two to three hours.

Beverly Hills plastic surgeon Dr. Jan Adams told TMZ.com that he did indeed perform cosmetic procedures on Donda West, a tummy tuck and also a breast reduction. But he said that her death could have been caused by a number of things, including a heart attack, pulmonary embolism or massive vomiting.

He said that Donda West consulted with him over a period of four months and that he felt he did nothing wrong. He is a very high- profile plastic surgeon. He has appeared on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." He also hosted "Plastic Surgery: Before and After" on Discovery Health.

And he wrote a book titled "Everything Women of Color Should Know About Cosmetic Surgery," graduated with honors from Harvard, attended Ohio State University College of Medicine.

But he has had a lot of difficulty in his life and in his career. The California Medical Board tells us that in 2001, he had to pay nearly half a million dollars in malpractice case judgments. In April of this year, the California Medical Board filed an accusation against him for misuse of drugs and alcohol after multiple DUI offenses over the years.

So, no final decision has been made regarding that in terms of disciplinary action, possibly revoking or suspending his medical license. We have reached out numerous times to Dr. Jan Adams for comment but have received no response.

By the way, the American Board of Plastic Surgery tells CNN he was not certified by them, but he doesn't have to be to practice plastic surgery -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Have you heard anything from Kanye West?

ANDERSON: We are, actually. We did receive a statement on behalf of Kanye.

And it reads, "Kanye West, his family and friends, would like to thank everyone for the outpouring support and kind words that have come in from across the country."

Details of funeral services are still pending, Kyra, though we are hearing that the service could take place in Oklahoma City. And that's where Donda West up. Also, Kanye West had been in Europe prepping for his European tour in support of his latest album, "Graduation." We are told that Kanye's spokesperson tells us his European tour will still kick off next Monday in Amsterdam as planned. But, if that changes, we of course will bring that to you.

PHILLIPS: All right, Brooke Anderson, appreciate it.

LEMON: We go now to a Las Vegas courtroom where prosecutors are trying to bring O.J. Simpson to trial on armed robbery charges. Today's testimony could help them do it. It came from onetime co- defendant Walter Alexander, who says Simpson asked him and another man to carry heat during the alleged robbery in September.

Simpson denies asking anyone to bring guns when he confronted two sports memorabilia dealers in a hotel room. He says he was just trying to get back items that belonged to him. But his former friend tells quite a different story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALTER ALEXANDER, ALLEGED ACCOMPLICE OF O.J. SIMPSON: Going into the hotel, I thought we were just going to get Mr. Simpson's things that belonged to him. But, after what had happened and I'm walking out of the room, I'm realizing that a robbery had taken place. And I'm really feeling as if, man, you know, you are in some trouble, dude.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Under cross-examination, Alexander acknowledges it took him two days before he went to the police.

PHILLIPS: It is usually 100 percent fatal in birds. And although it is very hard for people to catch it, your chances of survival are less than 50/50 if you do. No wonder the return of bird flu in England has warning bells going off, especially for the poultry industry.

CNN's Phil Black is in London.

And, Phil, the news is bad and the timing is even worse.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Kyra. Yes, that's right.

We knew this was bird flu. Now we know what strain it is. Tests have confirmed that it is the H5N1 strain. And it is described by scientists as highly pathogenic. It spreads rapidly through bird populations. And, of course, it has the potential to jump from birds to humans as well.

Now, so far, it has been detected on what's a relatively small farm, just 6,000 birds or so there. They will all be culled, a mixture of turkeys, ducks and geese.

But the broader concern is that this farm lies in an area known as Suffolk, where there are millions of birds being farmed intensively. They are being rid especially in the lead-up of the Christmas season. So, the fear is that if this outbreak spreads further it could devastate this industry in the lead-up to what is its busiest time of year. The broader health concern, of course, is making sure it does not move to the human population. There has been conflicting scientific arguments for some time about the potential for this disease, if it does move among humans, to mutate into a form where it can be transformed -- can then be transferred from person to person. The results of that could be a pandemic.

Now, the strain is not new to this country. Britain suffered its first outbreak of H5N1 just earlier this year. This was on a turkey farm. Around 130,000 birds were culled at that time. But it was successfully confined. There will be hoping that the techniques there will be just as successful this time around -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Phil Black. We will obviously keep following the story for the next couple of days, for sure. Thank you.

LEMON: We are also keeping an eye on New York City police, New York City specifically. They are holding a press conference very shortly. There is the room, the podium. You see all the folks getting ready there. And also, obviously, they are going to talk about the evidence in that case with the placards there that they have to write on.

This is a scene on Monday night when police shot an 18-year-old man. They said they thought he was carrying a gun. Instead, it was a hairbrush. Developments coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: Harnessing the power of prayer. It can move mountains, but can it bring the rain? CNN asks an expert coming up in the NEWSROOM.

LEMON: Crack cocaine, powder cocaine, same drug, different forms, and different forms of justice for offenders. But a change could set thousands of them free.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. You're looking at live pictures there on the left of your screen from New York City, where police are preparing to hold a conference. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly will do it there.

The right scene from that shooting on Monday night that left an 18-year-old dead that has been called into question, and a controversy around it, because at the time police say they believed he was armed. Turns out he was not. It was just a hairbrush. We're watching that for you and we will bring it for you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Meantime, it is 14 past the hour. And we are working on three other stories for you right here in the NEWSROOM. Prosecutors trying to bolster their case against O.J. Simpson today. One of his old co- defendants is testifying against him, claiming Simpson asked him and another man to carry heat during an alleged armed robbery. Simpson denies asking anyone to bring guns when he confronted two sports memorabilia dealers in September.

Well, you had to see this pink slip coming. A Nebraska school board has fired Kelsey Peterson. She is a 25-year-old teacher accused of having sex with a 13 year old student, then running off to Mexico with him. They were found earlier this month in a border town.

British poultry farmers now reeling from an unexpected shock just weeks before the Christmas holiday. Officials confirmed bird flu found on a farm in eastern England is the powerful strain that has killed scores of people around the world.

PHILLIPS: Well, he's confronted his neighbors, appealed to the fed. Now Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue is petitioning the almighty for an end to scenes like these.

Like much of the Southeast, Georgia is in a historic drought, and the powers that be haven't done much to help. So, earlier today, Perdue held a prayer vigil here in Atlanta asking for rain. Should we get our umbrellas?

Let's ask an expert. Rabbi Steve Lebow has been meeting spiritual needs for more than 20 years.

He joins us now from the Atlanta suburb of Marietta, where I know you are going to be holding a prayer service as well; is that right, Rabbi?

RABBI STEVE LEBOW, TEMPLE KOL EMETH: Yes, that's right. We will be holding actually a couple of them, including the children and the adults together.

PHILLIPS: All right, so, Rabbi, let me ask you something. Doesn't God already know that we need rain?

LEBOW: I think God does know what's in our hearts & our prayers. In some ways, the prayers maybe are for us, for us to come together as a community from all the different backgrounds and the different religions to focus our prayers together.

PHILLIPS: Well, and that's what's pretty amazing about what is happening here, right? You have got Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish all coming together and embracing diversity of faith, no matter how you look at it, rain or not, right?

LEBOW: Absolutely. Absolutely.

And it is a rare occasion when people from all different backgrounds can agree on something and get together. We are facing a drought of biblical proportions. We have been told that we may run out of water in the next few months. We have banned all outdoor watering. So, it is pretty serious here.

PHILLIPS: All right, let me ask you, I know that there is this protest that's being held.

And I want to read you this quote from Ed Buckner, who is treasurer for the Atlanta Freethought Society. And he said: "This is ridiculous, illogical exercise even for the people who are deeply religious." He said, "I would think that they would be offended by this."

What do you think about that type of criticism?

LEBOW: Well, I think he's a little bit overly sensitive.

(LAUGHTER)

LEBOW: The religious community obviously feels -- you know, we are glad to be called upon. Obviously, we not going to make it rain. But, to paraphrase Elie Wiesel, God invented us that we could talk to him.

PHILLIPS: All right, well, let's go a little deeper into that invention, shall we?

I was reading that you actually were quoted as saying Judaism, like Christianity and Islam, is a faith born in the Middle Eastern desert, and prayers for rain are built right into the Jewish calendar and in the month of Heshvan -- and tell me if I'm saying that right -- that would be right now, late October.

LEBOW: Yes, that's right.

PHILLIPS: Is that right? OK, late October, November.

LEBOW: Yes, that is right.

PHILLIPS: So, tell me about this -- how prayers are built into the Jewish calendar and the history behind the power of that and why that's been done.

LEBOW: Sure.

Well, if you think about it, the Bible was written down in a Middle Eastern desert, a place that hardly ever had any rain. And so Jews in Israel for centuries and centuries have been praying for rain beginning with the Jewish holiday of Sukkot, all the way to the spring, to the Jewish holiday of Passover.

And even though we don't live in the Middle East any longer, many of us, nonetheless, Jews outside of Israel, as well as Christians and Muslims, still believe that good things come from God.

PHILLIPS: And I want to continue talking about prayer.

But, just real quickly, let's talk about rain dances for a moment, because these still happen all over the world. You can trace it back to ancient Egypt. It happens in India. Of course, it is huge among American Indians. It's performed to invoke rain and ensure the protection of the harvest and also to cleanse evil spirits from the earth.

Do you see this as a form of prayer, these rain dances?

LEBOW: I do see it as a form of prayer. There is an ancient Jewish legend which says that a rabbi once drew a circle, stood in the middle of the circle, and told God that he would not leave the circle until God caused it to rain. So, this -- this custom among various tribes and religions to hold hands and to dance in a rain dance, obviously part of prayer.

PHILLIPS: How about in the Bible? Zechariah 10:1: "Ask the Lord for rain during the springtime rains. The Lord is the one who makes the clouds. He sends the showers and gives everyone green fields."

LEBOW: Absolutely.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: You support it 100 percent.

LEBOW: That wounds good.

PHILLIPS: It works for you.

LEBOW: Yes, absolutely.

PHILLIPS: All right, so let me -- what if God's answer is not necessarily the answer that we want? What if he doesn't want rain?

LEBOW: Well, sometimes, when we pray, the answer that we get is no or not yet. I don't think God is going to destroy us or bring too much harm to us.

Atlanta is a city of four million people. And I think we have got a lot of them praying in their own services, as well as in the collective service today. I think that God will protect us ultimately. Just the answer that we get may be not yet.

PHILLIPS: Final question, Rabbi.

LEBOW: Sure.

PHILLIPS: So, many people pray, even those that are not believers in a higher power. It just seems to be something that people like to do in desperation or if they are in a tough spot. Does prayer only work if those prayers are sincere?

LEBOW: Well, I think prayer works for a lot of reasons. We have got medical research now that shows that people who are ill, if they pray or even if others pray for them, they have a much better chance for survival. I think that 99 percent of everybody's prayers are sincere. They are trying to do the right thing and pray for the right thing, not only for themselves, but for others.

PHILLIPS: Rabbi Steve Lebow, thanks for talking with us today.

LEBOW: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: All right. LEMON: What happened in a Brooklyn apartment complex that sent the police there and then them end up killing an 18-year-old man? Well, press conference is about to get under way to answer some of those questions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Quick to Commissioner Ray Kelly on the shooting of that 18-year-old boy in Brooklyn.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: But Khiel had left the apartment at that point. And the Interfaith personnel left soon thereafter.

A psychologist from Interfaith later told detectives that Ms. Owens (ph) was afraid of her son who was not taking his medication. He said that Khiel had been treated with antipsychotic and antidepressant drugs, that he was previously admitted to Kings County Hospital psychiatric ward. He said Ms. Owens told him she had taken Khiel's apartment keys away from him and wanted him to leave the apartment.

The psychologist also told detectives that had the team been there to observe Khiel's behavior they would have admitted him for psychiatric evaluation. Ms. Owens told detectives that she had asked her son to leave the apartment and that he the refused. She said she pretended to call 911 on two occasions to -- quote -- "scare him," so that he might leave.

She also said that Khiel had picked up a tape dispenser, put it under his sweatshirt, and said that he was -- quote -- "prepared to die."

At 7:05 p.m., Ms. Owens in fact did call 911 to report she was having trouble with Khiel. As she gave her address, a male she identified as her son could be heard in the background saying -- quote -- "I got a gun and I'm going to shoot you." He repeated statements throughout the one minute and 17 second telephone call that -- quote -- "I got a gun."

We will play the 911 call now. But I want to warn you that it includes some vulgarities. We also admit at the end of the call, the portion where Ms. Owens gives her phone number and the identity of the neighbor's apartment. It is about one minute long.

Would you play the tape, please?

PHILLIPS: All right, we apologize. We would like to play this unedited, obviously, and raw, but we are being told that there is some pretty hard-core profanity that has been used or was used on this 911 call.

I can tell you parts of it. Apparently this 18-year-old can be heard by 911 operators saying: "I have got a gun. I have a gun." The operator asks the mother if there was a gun involved. And she replied, "Well, you heard it from his mouth."

Apparently -- I'm looking down here because I have sort of raw notes about what it says -- this young man had barricaded himself, started making these threats. Police responded to the scene. So, there was a lot of confusion to whether this young man had a gun or not, whether he ended up picking up some knives and that became a threat to officers. But they did find out that he actually didn't have a gun in his hand. He actually had a hairbrush that was in his hand. But he was making threats with knives as well. His mother did confirm that.

So, right now, they are rolling that 911 tape with operators, commissioner, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, playing that for reporters, and then he is going to take questions. We are just -- we don't want to you hear it because of the extreme amounts of profanity.

Let's go ahead and listen in again.

KELLY: Two minutes after the call at 7:07 p.m., the first police unit, with two police officers from the 79th Precinct, arrived at 590 Gates Avenue.

When they came to apartment 1-D on the first floor, the door was already ajar. They could see Khiel Coppin with two knives, one in each hand in the hallway between the front door and a bedroom.

Ms. Owens and her 11-year-old daughter were also inside the hallway. The officers directed Ms. Owens and her daughter to come out of the apartment. Ms. Owens told the officers at the scene that Khiel was armed with knives, but not a gun.

However, Khiel claimed to the first officers who responded that he was armed with a gun. As the officers approached Khiel, he first brandished both knives, lunged toward the officers and yelled -- quote -- "Shoot me. Kill me."

Khiel moved down the hallway toward the back bedroom, while the officers retreated to the outside hallway, where they were joined by two detectives from the 79th Precinct. The four officers remained outside the apartment with the door open and with a clear view into the apartment. Khiel would periodically show himself from behind the bedroom door, initially brandishing a knife and on other occasions holding something under his sweatshirt while claiming to be armed with a gun.

At one point, he yelled at the officers -- quote -- "Come get me. I have a gun. Let's do this."

Captain Charles McEvoy (ph), the 79th Precinct executive officer, joined the officers in the hallway at 7:17 p.m. and called for the NYPD's hostage negotiating team to respond. Officers had previously called for our emergency service unit, which had just arrived on the scene at that time.

As the officers in the hallway stayed in position, they could hear Khiel moving a gate that covered the bedroom window. They then heard other officers outside yelling, "He's going out the window." This was at 7:18 p.m.

Khiel dropped about four feet from the bedroom window to the sidewalk in front of 590 Gates Avenue. From there, he walk through an exterior gate directly towards police officers in front of the building.

According to civilian witnesses, they also thought that Khiel had a gun. Khiel was holding something under his sweatshirt as he continued to approach the officers, ignoring their directives to stop and show his hands.

Captain McEvoy had run from the apartment to the front of the building just as Khiel came out the window. He observed several officers in front of the building and ordered them to immediately back up and take cover. They did so, positioning themselves behind two parked cars.

Without hesitating, Khiel continued in the officers' direction, ignoring multiple directives to stop, show his hands and get down on the ground.

As he closed the distance between him and the officers, he reached under his sweatshirt, pulled an object and pointed it in the officers' direction, as if he were aiming a gun. In fact, he had a hair brush in his hand. Five officers responded by firing a total of 20 rounds, striking Khiel eight times.

The emergency services officers -- all of them trained EMTS -- rushed to render aid to Khiel. The hair brush was found at the scene under his body. The shooting occurred at approximately 7:19 p.m.

At the same time, police at the scene radioed for EMS to respond immediately with an ambulance. Minutes later, EMS arrived and transported Khiel to Woodhull Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

A number of handwritten notes were found in his pockets. There are a few examples that we have pictured over there. We have located 10 witnesses -- nine of them eyewitnesses and one who heard some elements of the shooting, but did not see it. For example, a 50-year old woman said that she saw Khiel as he approached police officers, raising an unknown dark object in his right hand while lunging toward the officers. When asked by Internal Affairs detectives whether Khiel could have been raising his hands to surrender, she said, "Absolutely not." She also said that Khiel ignored repeated directives by police that Khiel stop and get on the ground.

Another woman said it appeared Khiel had a gun under his sweatshirt. When asked why she believed that, she said he appeared to be holding an object under his shirt. Another witness, a 15-year old male, said that after repeated warnings to stop, Khiel continued to approach the officers -- who were backing away from Khiel.

All 10 witnesses said that they heard officers tell Khiel to stop and show his hands. The civilian witnesses' accounts comport closely with those of the police at the scene. While we are constrained from interviewing the shooting officers until the district attorney completes his own investigation, the accounts by the captain at the scene and other police witnesses closely mirror the civilians' statements. Three of the shooting officers were from Police Service Area #3, one was from the 79th Precinct and one was from the 79th Precinct detective squad. Two were sergeants -- one from the 79th Precinct and PSA 3 -- with 10 years and 15 years experience on the job respectively. Two of the other officers each have 12 years of experience; the detective, 13 years. The officers' ages range from 45 to 35.

Since the end of September, we have instituted a policy which requires a breathalyzer test for any police officer involved in a shooting that results in injury or death. All five officers were tested after the incident by our Internal Affairs Bureau with negative results. And as all police involved shootings, the shooting officers have been reassigned to non-enforcement duties.

This was a terrible tragedy for Khiel's family, no question about it. Our condolences go out to his mother and to his family. As we know the facts now, this shooting appears to be within department guidelines as officers fired at someone they reasonably believed to be about to use deadly force against them.

I'll take your questions.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE). But why do the police (INAUDIBLE) they couldn't have some other team to calm him down?

KELLY: Well, there was no indication to the officers at the scene that he was emotionally disturbed, although that information started to come out.

Any other questions?

Yes, sir?

QUESTION: Can you talk about (INAUDIBLE) the gun?

Did he have it (INAUDIBLE) did he have it (INAUDIBLE)?

KELLY: Yes. The witnesses tell us that -- he was wearing a black sweatshirt. Witnesses tell us that he had his right hand under the sweatshirt and he was holding the object with his left hand on top of it and as he approached the officers at a fairly steady rate, that he pulled this object out and pointed it out at the officers.

QUESTION: To this point, sir, have you recovered a gun?

KELLY: We have not recovered a gun. There was no gun recovered.

QUESTION: Not at the apartment?

Nowhere?

KELLY: Well, we haven't gone into the apartment as yet. We're waiting for a search warrant.

QUESTION: How do you respond to residents' claims that in the past, there was always a slow police response to the Bed-Stuy neighborhood and the reason why the mother told police that there was a gun involved was because she wanted a quick response (INAUDIBLE)?

KELLY: No. The mother didn't tell the police that there was a gun. Here's the transcript right here. What happens is, if you read it, the individual in the background is saying he has a gun. The mother doesn't say he has a gun. The mother does refer in there when the operator asked does he have a gun, she said you heard it. You heard what he said. The mother does not say he has a gun.

Yes, sir?

QUESTION: Commissioner, it seems earlier in the day the mother attempted to do what she could to get some intervention (INAUDIBLE).

Would you suggest a case where someone finds themselves (INAUDIBLE) health authorities (INAUDIBLE) a psychiatric facility and they're unsuccessful in getting (INAUDIBLE) would it be wise to call the local precinct and say we have an individual (INAUDIBLE)?

KELLY: If it's an emergency situation, you should call 911. The mental health personnel did respond to the scene. They got there at 6:00.

QUESTION: But once they did (INAUDIBLE) in effect what they came here to do and this young man is out on the loose, wouldn't it have made sense to follow up with a phone call to (INAUDIBLE) for someone else to (INAUDIBLE)...

KELLY: Well, any time you need help, immediate help, you have to call 911, not the local precinct.

QUESTION: Commissioner...

KELLY: Yes, sir.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) this all happened very quickly (INAUDIBLE) the time line. I believe there were two calls that went out (INAUDIBLE) for emergency service backup. And in your chronology, you said, I believe, that some type of (INAUDIBLE) assistance people arrived at 9:17, there was already emergency services (INAUDIBLE)...

KELLY: No. The captain reports that just as he got -- as he was entering the building, going around the corner, that the emergency service -- REP, we call it -- had just arrived at the scene.

QUESTION: So there had been a call to them prior to (INAUDIBLE)?

KELLY: Yes. The officers -- the responding police officers called for emergency service personnel.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)? KELLY: Yes, we do. They called at approximately -- I'm going to say 9:08, I believe -- seven, I'm sorry. 7:08 -- 19:08. We use, you know, military time. So it was 7:08.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)?

KELLY: We do. It arrived at 7:22.

QUESTION: Commissioner, you've got the transcript that shows that there was some (INAUDIBLE) about a gun in the 911 call.

KELLY: You have the transcript, as well, sir.

QUESTION: Yes, I appreciate that.

What did the responding officers know about those statements?

Had (INAUDIBLE)?

KELLY: The call -- the call came over as a dispute with a gun. 10:52, dispute with a gun. And then, I believe, the words a mother and her son -- words to that effect.

QUESTION: OK. And so in your chronology, you said that at one point he came out and said, "Shoot me, shoot me."

(INAUDIBLE)

KELLY: That was in the apartment.

QUESTION: I understand.

Would that have been an indication (INAUDIBLE) that this was an emotionally disturbed person that needed some kind of special treatment?

KELLY: Well, the officers backed off and the emergency service unit was on the scene there -- the officers that we use to handle emotionally disturbed people.

QUESTION: Is there a procedure for that that was followed (INAUDIBLE)?

KELLY: Well, there is a procedure, but, you know, the -- the individual acted too quickly to enable us to put the resources in place to appropriately restrain him.

QUESTION: Commissioner, does anything about the events at the...

PHILLIPS: New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly just laying out the details from his perspective there on the death of an 18-year-old young man there in Brooklyn. It's a story we've been covering. A lot of controversy over whether police had the right to shoot this man.

But you heard it there from the police commissioner. He believes that the civilian statements link with the officers' testimony, that the officers operated within the department's guidelines, that this young man, Khiel Coppin, was threatening to use deadly force. Police saw him as a threat and at that point, they shot him -- a number of times, apparently.

Khiel had said to the police, "Shoot me, just kill me." He had brandished a knife to police. He had barricaded himself inside his apartment then he walked -- or he actually be went into the back room, climbed out the window, ignored numerous directions, according to the police commissioner there, from officers and warnings from officers.

At that point, he took something out from under his sweatshirt that, unfortunately, ended up being a hair brush. But he said, "Come get me, I have a gun, let's do this right now."

It ended, obviously, in the death of this 18-year-old boy. But the police commissioner saying, as you listen to the 911 tape that he played -- we didn't want you to hear them due to extremes amounts of profanity. But we are working on bleeping out those parts so you, the viewer, can hear what it all went down on those 911 calls.

We're going to continue to follow this, obviously, and bring you new information as we get it.

LEMON: We're also going to talk about crack cocaine and powder cocaine. It's the same drug, different forms -- and different forms of justice for offenders. But a change could set thousands of them free. And we're going to tell you about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Live pictures now of Police Commissioner Ray Kelly in New York holding a press conference, talking about the circumstances surrounding 18-year-old Khiel Coppin's death on Monday night in a Brooklyn apartment building. They were called to the apartment by a 911 call -- the mother of this 18-year-old, who said she believed he was carrying a gun, as well.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly also let the folks there at the press conference in New York listen to this 911 call made by the mother in all of this. And there was pretty strong profanity in this tape. So we chosen which portion is appropriate to play for you. You have to listen very closely. It's kind of hard to hear. But cut out the profanities, and here's the 911 call released just moments ago.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's supposed to be my son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's your son?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. He's got no respect. (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said he has a gun (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) with this behavior.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, well (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's 1D. (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the first floor?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ring the bell to get in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, police got to the apartment and they say Khiel Coppin showed a fair amount of resistance and then started brandishing what they believed were weapons. He also had something under his shirt. Witnesses say they heard police say, "Hey, show your hands." He did not show his hands. Sadly, it turns out there was a brush under his shirt. Police thought it was a gun. Khiel Coppin was shot.

We're going to continue -- shot and killed.

We're going to continue to follow this story in the CNN NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: Overdue justice or a threat to the justice system?

Thousands of crack cocaine offenders could gain their freedom years ahead of schedule and it depends on what a federal panel decides today.

CNN's Kelli Arena is following this story from Washington -- Kelli.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, the U.S. Sentencing Commission is holding a public hearing today about whether to make new sentencing guidelines retroactive for people who were convicted of possessing crack cocaine. The new guidelines will shave about 15 months off most of the crack sentences. And the Sentencing Commission is considering whether to make those new guidelines retroactive, which could mean an early release for more than 19,000 prisoners.

Now, critics, including the Justice Department, say that's going to put thousands of violent criminals back on the street, just as violent crime is already on the rise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRETCHEN C.F. SHAPPERT, U.S. ATTORNEY: I, again, am concerned that if, indeed, you make the penalties retroactive with regard to the changes in guidelines, that we are going to see an influx of the very people who are most likely to re-offend and are most likely to upset these fragile neighborhoods.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ARENA: But supporters say wait a minute, hold on here, you know, fair is fair. Not all crack addicts or people convicted with crack in their possession are actually violent criminals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE REGGIE WALTON, CRIMINAL LAW COMMITTEE: I do think that, from the standpoint of sending the message to those in our society who sometimes believe that our society really doesn't care about them, I think it's important that we send a message -- that we do, and that while we're not going to tolerate aberrant behavior on the part of anybody, that we're going to treat everybody who comes into our court of law equally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: Now, this issue is complicated, not only legally, but socially. Crack sentences are still longer than sentences for possessing powder cocaine, which a lot of people say is discriminatory because crack dominates in African-American communities and powder cocaine in white communities.

Now, even if these guidelines are made retroactive, it won't automatically mean that prisoners will get out early. They're going to have to file a motion to the court for consideration and go before a judge -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, we'll follow it up.

Kelli Arena, thanks so much.

ARENA: You're welcome.

LEMON: The rhetoric heats up between two top Democrats.

Will that raise temperatures at Thursday night's Las Vegas debate?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, we've been hearing about this -- what matters most, change or experience?

Well, that discussion might add some spice to Thursday night's Democratic debate in Las Vegas.

And our Bill Schneider is serving up the latest hot dish, as the CNN Election Express pulls into Sin City -- Bill, while we were -- we expect some tough questions, I'm sure, during the debate.

Senator Clinton's campaign, though, already facing accusations that they planted questions during a town hall event in Iowa?

Oh, my gosh.

What's been the fallout with all of that? WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they have acknowledged that one question was given to a student to ask Senator Clinton. The campaign has acknowledged that. They say it will never happen again. That could have some fallout because it reinforces a negative impression -- a criticism one has heard of Hillary Clinton and, like many other politicians, not entirely honest and trustworthy, doesn't say what she believes.

Look, you've had the secretive health care task force meetings in the 1990s; mysteriously missing Rose law firm records. More recently, of course, the evasive answers about her position on driver's licenses for illegal immigrants.

So it reinforces that perception, which was also a criticism when heard about her husband when he was president.

LEMON: OK. We've been talking about this, but let's listen to, I think it's Muriel Gallo-Chasanoff. She's the student who is making that accusation.

Let's listen to what she has to say, Bill, and then we'll talk about it, OK?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL GALLO-CHASANOFF, STUDENT: When I asked how it worked, he said raise your hand when -- when she asks her questions, raise your hand and she'll call on you. So I mean I don't know for sure that she knew in advance. But there were like there were 200 people there. And everyone was raising their hand. I was one out of four. That doesn't seem random, exactly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So far, the campaign has denied it.

Are they taking this seriously?

SCHNEIDER: Oh, yes. They are taking it seriously because it's a very damaging charge to say that the campaign is manipulating public impressions, that it's not being entirely honest with people. It could do some damage.

Remember -- I remember when her husband was first elected in 1992. Most Americans did not think Bill Clinton was honest and trustworthy, but they voted for him. He won the election. But he only won with 43 percent of the vote. And that was a charge that hung over him for his entire administration. And she doesn't really want to have to deal with that. And, unfortunately, this feeds into that impression. And you can be sure that her competitors on the stage here in Las Vegas on Thursday night are going to try to reinforce that criticism.

LEMON: And, obviously, between the two frontrunners here, it's going to be change and experience, change and experience. That's what we're going to hear a lot about. SCHNEIDER: And Barack Obama raises that issue a lot because his argument is he wants a different kind of politics. And he uses -- he may use the example of the planted questions and say look, this is old politics. This is corrupt politics. The Clintons are part of that system. Hillary Clinton is part of the status quo. He wants a new, more honest, more trustworthy style of politics, and that's how he's presenting himself. He's criticizing her honesty, really, particularly her answers to questions, where he says she tries to have it both ways.

And she, of course, challenges his experience, arguing that she's tough and she shows fight; she's dealt with the Republican attack machine. And a lot of Democrats worry that Senator Obama just doesn't have enough fight in him to deal with the Republicans when they come after him.

LEMON: All right.

OK, Bill Schneider, thank you so much.

We look forward to that debate. And remember, the next CNN presidential debate is Thursday night. Our Wolf Blitzer will host the Democratic debate in Las Vegas. It gets started at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

PHILLIPS: Well, Beyonce and Lindsay Lohan -- they both sing, they both act. But which one would you rather have on your Scrabble team? Here's a clue -- it's hip to be smart.

LEMON: And the Dow is up -- let's take a look now -- more than 300 points. Wow, that's really good. The closing bell and a wrap of all the action on Wall Street just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So what's the ideal female forum?

A new study may throw you a bit of a curve or two. It turns out, the same kind of shape that makes it impossible for a woman to find jeans that fit. That means she's significantly smarter than her skinnier sisters.

Listen to this. Scientists studied 16,000 women and conclude that the smaller your waist and the bigger your hips, the more brain power you have. They say the secret is the higher levels of omega three fatty acids around the hips and thighs -- chemicals essential for brain growth.

LEMON: Watch out for the big girls. All right.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Right?

PHILLIPS: Ooh, that's not a good segue to Stephanie Elam. That is not right, Don. LEMON: Oh, Stephanie Elam is not -- she's (INAUDIBLE).

PHILLIPS: She's only 6'4".

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: When I met her, I'm in...

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Yes, exactly. She walks in in New York and I'm like wow! Steph, she's like 6'4".

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, right. In my mind I am (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: And in really good shape.

ELAM: Yes.

LEMON: Stephanie Elam at the New York Stock Exchange with a final look at trading day -- hi, Steph.

ELAM: Yes.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

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