Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Killed Without Cause? FBI Says Blackwater Killings Unjustified; Police Ruling on Unarmed Teen's Death; Four Organ Recipients Get HIV

Aired November 14, 2007 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
I'm Tony Harris.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.

I'm Heidi Collins.

Watch events come into the NEWSROOM live on November 14th.

Here's what's on the rundown.

The Blackwater shootings -- a report says the deaths of 14 Iraqi civilians were not justified. Will the Blackwater guards be prosecuted?

HARRIS: And New York's governor now steering clear of a plan to giver drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants. He is live this hour.

COLLINS: A lover's quarterly in the middle of a busy freeway.

Fight in the fast lane, in the NEWSROOM.

Unfolding this morning, the Blackwater investigation and a report Iraqi civilians were killed without cause.

Barbara Starr is on the story for us this morning.

And Barbara, what can you tell us about this report?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Heidi, "The New York Times" is reporting this morning that an FBI investigation that has been going on for sometime now into the September incident, the shooting of 17 Iraqi civilians by Blackwater security personnel in Baghdad, that 14 of those killings were unjustified under the rules of the use of deadly force in Iraq by Iraqi security contractors.

"The New York Times" reporting that this FBI investigation finding is now under review by the Justice Department for possible further prosecution. What the report says is 14 of the killings unjustified. Deadly force, of course, only to be used by contractors when they feel an imminent threat. They said, according to "The New York Times," that perhaps three of them could have been considered justified because the security guards may have perceived a threat by some cars driving through this area of Baghdad. Blackwater has issued a statement about all of this. Their spokesman, Anne Tyrell, saying, "If it is proven that there was wrongdoing, we want that person or persons held accountable."

Blackwater has said, since the beginning of all of this back in September, they believe their people fired in self-defense, that there was a threat, but that they're cooperating with the government and that if anybody should be prosecuted, that that should happen. But the bottom line, Heidi, in all of these cases, the problem always remains, is there the evidence? Are there the witnesses that can be brought forward in the U.S. court system for a possible prosecution?

Heidi.

COLLINS: Yes. You hit the nail on the head.

All right. CNN's Barbara Starr from the Pentagon this morning.

Thank you, Barbara.

STARR: Sure.

HARRIS: And we want to go a little more in-depth now. Let's talk about whether Blackwater guards are likely to face criminal charges.

CNN executive producer Suzanne Simons has done extensive research and is writing a book on Blackwater.

Suzanne, great to see you.

Here's the first question. Has a private contractor ever, ever been prosecuted for something that happened in Iraq?

SUZANNE SIMONS, CNN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: There has been no significant prosecution for criminal charges against a contractor in Iraq.

HARRIS: And can you tell me why that is?

SIMONS: No. And as a matter of fact, I don't think the Department of Justice or the FBI could tell you why that is either, but that is part of the problem. You've got three different agencies, including the agency within the State Department, the FBI, the Department of Justice, charged with investigate crimes like this.

HARRIS: Yes.

SIMONS: Not a single one has come to trial.

HARRIS: Can you tell me why we have so many contractors operating in security situations in Iraq right now? It seems like a recipe for disaster.

SIMONS: Well, it is a recipe for disaster because there's civilians. HARRIS: Yes.

SIMONS: If they were military guys we wouldn't have this problem. But what happened when Paul Bremer handed over control to the Iraqi government a couple of years ago, is they made this provision that the contractors were not going to be accountable under Iraqi law, and it was really a matter of time before something like this happened, because there's no structure, there's no court martial structure, there's no chain of command the way there is in the military.

HARRIS: Yes. And that would be -- that would be the difference if this was an incident that happened, it happened September 16th and it involved U.S. military personnel?

SIMONS: Right, exactly.

HARRIS: Yes.

SIMONS: You'd have the investigation under way right away. You'd have -- if it were found...

HARRIS: Yes.

SIMONS: ... that they did anything wrong, you would have a court proceeding.

HARRIS: Well, why don't we have -- why doesn't the State Department provide its own security for its own personnel?

SIMONS: Well, I think you're going to see some changes. I think you're going to see their own department that does this, that does already provide this kind of service, beefed up significantly over the next few years.

HARRIS: Yes. OK.

Suzanne, great to see you. Thanks.

A closer look at Blackwater USA.

The North Carolina-based contractor has about 1,000 armed guards in Iraq. They perform duties once reserved for soldiers such as guarding convoys and protecting officials. Since 2001, Blackwater has won more than $1 billion in contracts from the U.S. government. Contractors can make more than $30,000 in a single month.

COLLINS: Silencing the opposition in Pakistan. Cameras were rolling today as police seized another major government critic. Imran Khan has hauled off while attending a student protest against the state of emergency declared by President Pervez Musharraf.

Meanwhile, opposition leader Benazir Bhutto remains under house arrest. She has called for the president to step down.

Meanwhile, the U.S. is intensifying pressure on Pakistan's leader to end the emergency order. Washington will dispatch Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte to Islamabad on Friday. A senior State Department official tells CNN Negroponte will tell President Bush how seriously the U.S. views his emergency order and suggest he rescind it and allow free and fair elections.

A major change of plan on the issue of illegal immigration. New York Governor Eliot Spitzer is giving up his proposal to give drivers' licenses to undocumented immigrants.

Spitzer had said all along his plan was about security, keeping track of people, and keeping the roads safe. But opponents say illegal immigrants shouldn't get the privilege of a license. The issue has national complications. Last week in Washington, a Republican congressman introduced a bill to stop states from granting licenses to undocumented aliens.

Governor Spitzer is going to be talking about his decision in just a couple of minutes. You can see it live right here in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: An unarmed teen shot and killed by police. Now New York City's police commissioner say his officers did nothing wrong.

CNN's Alina Cho live in New York.

OK, Alina, a story with a lot of emotions attached to it. Bring us the very latest, if you would, please.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I want to talk, first, Tony, about those 911 tapes that came out late yesterday, really a key piece of evidence. And listen carefully to what you're about to hear.

And remember, police only responded after the boy's mother called 911. On one of the tapes, in the background, you can faintly hear a young man yelling, "I've got a gun! I've got a gun!"

Police say that was the victim on the tape. Here is what happened next.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: He say he gotta gun?

FEMALE CALLER: Um, huh... you -- you heard him.

911 OPERATOR: He -- he didn't injure you, right?

FEMALE CALLER: No, but he kept on tonight with his situation here. I'm not sleeping here with this behavior.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CHO: Now, police responded, eventually fired 20 rounds in all at 18-year-old Khiel Coppin. He later died at the hospital.

At the time of the shooting, as most know by now, Coppin was carrying a black object that turns out was not a gun, but a hairbrush. Now, at a news conference yesterday, the police commissioner, Ray Kelly, said the responding officers had every reason to believe Coppin had a deadly weapon, and at this point believes the shooting seems to fall within department guidelines.

Earlier on "AMERICAN MORNING," we spoke to the attorney for the family. Here is some of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL WOOTEN, ATTORNEY FOR OWENS: So our concern is, is that there has been a rush of judgment by the police commissioner. The D.A. has an independent investigation. He hasn't made any statements. He's going through the motions, and he is trying to do this in a very, very clear and thorough manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHO: By the way, on the left side of your screen, that was the victim's stepfather.

The family's lawyer says there's no way police can know all of the facts this early on. The five officers, we should mention, that were involved in the shooting have all passed breathalyzer tests, Tony. They have been reassigned while the D.A. investigates.

And also this morning, the victim's stepfather did speak out, saying no matter the circumstances, his son did not have to die. Police are calling this a terrible tragedy.

HARRIS: CNN's Alina Cho following this case for us.

Alina, appreciate it. Thank you.

A Philadelphia teenager in serious trouble. He is charged with shooting two undercover narcotics officers. Police say the two officers will be OK.

It is the latest in a rash of shootings against police. There have been five shooting in less than three months. About two weeks ago, an officer died from a bullet to the head when he walked in on a robbery.

COLLINS: Still no answers on what exactly killed the mother of music mogul Kanye West. A coroner spokesman says complications from cosmetic surgery may have led to Donda West's death on Saturday. More tests are being conducted.

Celebrity Web site TMZ.com reports a Beverly Hills cosmetic surgeon said he recently refused to operate on her. The surgeon says he wanted a medical condition. He feared a condition of hers could lead to a heart attack.

TMZ.com, by the way, is owned by CNN's parent company, Time Warner. HARRIS: Jacqui Jeras, prayers answered perhaps? Maybe some relief? We will take any that we can get from this drought in the Southwest.

Good morning.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. Good morning.

Yes, it's good news, you know, no matter how you slice it. Is it a drought-buster? No, by no means.

Is it going to help? It will make the ground a little bit wet, and that's certainly good. You've got to saturate that soil though before anything can run off into the reservoir. So we would like to see a little bit more of that.

Here you can see a live picture in the Atlanta metro area, one of the areas praying for rain. And you look at this and you might say, it's sunny, where is the rain? You want to see it dark and wet.

Well, notice in the background -- see these little puffy clouds? Those are some showers which are trying to start building.

Let's show you the radar picture now over here.

We've had some sprinkles into northern Georgia earlier this morning. Also, you can see them kind of developing farther up to the north, into Tennessee, into Kentucky, into West Virginia, Charleston, trying to get a little bit wet there. It's not amounting to much right now, but one good thing about that sunshine, it's going to heat up the earth, help cause the airs to rise and cause a little bit more instability to get some of these showers and thunderstorms developing.

This cold front approaches to provide more of that lift, yes, showers and thunderstorms. Good stuff, isn't it?

Unfortunately, a few of them are going to be strong, possibly severe, but likely over here, into the lower Mississippi River Valley, so from Jackson over towards Little Rock, and even into Memphis, be aware of that threat. Large hail and damaging winds a little bit later on this afternoon.

Now, how much rain are we really talking about here with this front? Well, we'd like to see more, but the heaviest of rain is going to be right here in the green across central Tennessee and on up through the Appalachians. That's where you can expect an inch or so of rain.

In the real drought-ridden areas right in here, we're going to be seeing more like maybe a half of an inch. But locally heavy amounts are possible with the isolated thunderstorms. It's just kind of, you know, a guessing game of who is going to get that one inch with the heaviest of thunderstorms. And there is just pretty much no way to determine that.

Hope for the best. COLLINS: Yes. You see people running around outside and screaming and yelling and just losing their minds.

HARRIS: Yelling, "It's raining!"

COLLINS: Like the Super Bowl or something?

JERAS: Are you guys doing your part? Are you conserving?

HARRIS: Yes. Yes. As best I can, yes. Absolutely.

JERAS: Shorter showers, Heidi?

COLLINS: Yes. You should see the lawn. There is no lawn. It's just dirt (AUDIO GAP).

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Well, if this isn't the most bizarre thing you've seen in -- well, in the last 10 minutes, let's talk about it here, a fight in the fast lanes. Take a look at this traffic camera video.

You see what's going on here? Two guys there throwing down -- knock-down, drag-out fight across five lanes of rush hour traffic. This happening in Phoenix.

Take a look at this, how close this is. Wow.

Neither one was hit, but police say one man was trying to commit suicide. The other in the black shirt was trying to stop him.

Officers say it all started as a domestic dispute between the two men, described as boyfriends. Both were later arrested in a parking lot.

COLLINS: Four patients who received organ transplants this year are now diagnosed with HIV and Hepatitis C. The source of their infection? The organ donor who tested negative for both illnesses.

Chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us now to tell us a little bit more about this.

How did this happen, Sanjay?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, it looks like all protocols with regards to this actual transplantation were followed. That's the important thing.

And this hasn't happened in 21 years. So, for the most part, these protocols work. But what seems to have happened here, Heidi, is that the donor, an adult who died sometime earlier this year, upon donating, actually, those organs, four organs that were given to three different hospitals in the Chicago area, were infected with HIV and Hepatitis.

Now, the adult died in Illinois. He was identified as an organ donor. His blood was tested at that time for HIV and Hepatitis, the antibodies, and it came -- and those tests came back negative.

Subsequently, on November 1st of this year, they tested one of the recipients. In fact, he came back positive for HIV. They went back and tested the donor's blood with a genetic test, and, in fact, that donor's blood did come back positive for HIV and Hepatitis.

The recipients have all been checked and they all have been infected. So that's basically what happened here, Heidi. It's a bizarre situation, a very rare situation, but in this case it happened.

COLLINS: Yes. It's so weird. Why did the original tests not show that the donor had the HIV and Hepatitis C?

GUPTA: OK. So that's where it gets really interesting. And again, keep in mind the one thing I told you in the beginning. This hasn't happened in 21 years.

COLLINS: Right.

GUPTA: This is a rare situation. But what seems to have happened here is that your body takes a little bit of time to develop the antibodies to the virus. How long? Typically about three weeks.

So, what may have happened here is that the donor may have become infected in that small window, shortly before he or she died in that three-week period and was infected. But the antibody test was still negative.

Now, I did mention there's a genetic test that is more precise. They can tell you for sure. The problem with that test, Heidi, at the time of donation is that it takes a few days for the results to come back.

Well, as you know, you don't have a few days when you're waiting for an organ transplant and deciding if you're going to transplant organs.

COLLINS: No.

GUPTA: You have a few hours. So that genetic test wasn't -- wasn't quick enough, if you will, to determine at the time.

So this is strange in the timing of it all. The person died shortly after being infected and transmitted the virus on to the recipients.

COLLINS: Yes. OK. Well, that makes sense. But isn't there a test -- I think I was reading here that there is a test that exists that's more precise and could get results earlier?

GUPTA: You know, the antibody test is a very precise test. And it can give you -- it can give you results very quickly. The problem is there's a small window.

So, you know, if you, for example, engage in some sort of high- risk behavior, you're not going to know right away that you've actually been infected with the HIV virus. It takes a few weeks for your body to develop those antibodies, which are the thing that are actually measured. So the test result can come back right away as long as you test at the right time, which is about three weeks or so after the infection.

Now, I will point out one thing as well. This is an area of controversy, as you might imagine, within the world of transplantation.

This particular donor was also noted to have at least one high- risk behavior, which a lot of times sets off red flags for a lot of recipient hospitals. They'll say, you know, we're not going to take organs from people who have engaged in high-risk behavior. But Heidi, we're in a time where there's just not enough organs out there. You know, there's organ shortages, so some of those sort of restrictions or recommendations have been lax a little bit to make sure people are getting more organs.

COLLINS: Yes. And that's probably an even more important point to this story -- donate, donate, donate if you can.

GUPTA: Absolutely.

COLLINS: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, nice to see you. We appreciate it.

GUPTA: Thanks, Heidi.

HARRIS: Think you pay too much for gas? Well, high prices at the pump are hitting working folks the hardest. Find out why.

And we're expecting to hear from New York's governor, Eliot Spitzer, in just a couple of moments. A live shot now. There he is. Let's listen in.

GOV. ELIOT SPITZER (D), NEW YORK: As many of you know, we had a wonderful breakfast hosted by the dean, our great chairman. And it's always great to have time to share a conversation about a range of issues. And I'll make a statement in a moment.

I'm joined, obviously, as you can see, by Congress members Charlie Rangel and Joe Crowley and Jose Serrano and Carolyn Maloney and (INAUDIBLE), great friends. And all -- I think just about all the members of the delegation were with us a few moments ago.

Let me read you my prepared comments, and then several members of the delegation I think will wish to make comments.

Over the last two months, I have been advancing a proposal that I believe would improve the safety and security of the people of my state by addressing the fact that New York is home to one million undocumented immigrants, many of whom are driving on our roads unlicensed. After serious deliberation and consultation with people I respect on all sides of this issue, I have concluded that New York State cannot successfully address this problem on its own. I am announcing today that I am withdrawing my proposal.

Here in our nation's capital, I wanted to talk briefly about the failed federal immigration policy and what that has meant for states like New York. I also wanted to speak about some of the lessons I have learned.

I suggest to you what everyone already knows -- the federal government has lost control of its borders, has allowed millions of undocumented immigrants to enter our country, and now has no solution to deal with it. When the federal government abdicates its responsibilities, states, cities, towns and villages still have to deal with the practical reality of that failure. And we face that reality every day in our schools, in our hospitals, and on our roads. In New York, that means one million undocumented immigrants, many of whom are driving without a license and without insurance, and all of whom are living in the shadows with no real identity.

While states lack the ability to fix our immigration laws, we do have the obligation to try to address some of their negative consequences. And so many of us have tried.

In New York, we announced a comprehensive proposal to allow New Yorkers to choose from three secure licenses. This was a practical response to both the new federal travel requirements and the old federal inaction.

It would have enabled us to keep our upstate economy viable, meet the demands of federal travel requirements, make our roads safer, and bring more New Yorkers into the system, helping law enforcement officials fight crime and terrorism. It would have restored the practice of licensing immigrants who do not have Social Security numbers, something New York had done for years, something eight other states, both red and blue states, do right now, and something I continue to believe is principally the right thing to do to make our roads safer and our state more secure.

I continue to believe that my proposal would have improved an unsatisfactory situation, but I have listened to the legitimate concerns of the public and those who would be affected by proposal and have concluded that pushing forward unilaterally in the face of such strong opposition would be counterproductive. Leadership is not solely about doing what one thinks is right. Leadership is also about listening to the public, responding to their concerns, and knowing when to put aside a single divisive issue in favor of a larger agenda.

I am here today to respond to the vast majority of New Yorkers of goodwill who have heard my best case and yet still disagree with my proposal. As New Yorkers, we respect that people from all over the world to work hard and to live the American dream. Just like all four of my grandparents. We respect the hard and sometimes back-breaking work of those who participate daily in our economy. But at the same time, we are troubled when people violate our immigration laws.

It does not take a stethoscope to hear the pulse of New Yorkers on this topic. It is also clear that even if I could convince the public of the utility of our cause, the legislative process and any number of mounting obstacles would have prevented us from moving forward. The result would have been the defeat of this proposal and, even worse, a roadblock to solutions on so many important issues, like revitalizing our economy, lowering the cost of health care while improving quality and access, restoring excellence to our educational system, and reducing property taxes.

It is for these reasons that I will not move forward with this plan. Indeed, a consequence of the federal failure is that Americans and New Yorkers are demanding a comprehensive solution. Piecemeal reform, even if practical, is unacceptable. It fails to address the many important competing interests in values. I underestimated that sentiment in putting forward this proposal.

Beyond the crisis of illegal immigration that I've tried to address in some small way, please allow me this brief observation about another crisis, the crisis of political discourse in this country that was on full display these past two months. While people of good faith opposed my plan for fair reasons, some partisans unleashed a response that has become all too familiar in American politics. In New York, forces quickly mobilized to prey on the public's worst fears by turning what we believe is a practical security measure into a referendum on immigration.

Political opponents equated minimum wage undocumented dishwashers with Osama bin Laden. Newspaper headlines equated a driver's license for an undocumented migrant worker with a passport to terror.

HARRIS: New York's governor, Eliot Spitzer, announcing his decision to abandon, to withdraw his controversial plan to give drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants. The governor saying that New York State cannot successfully address the problem on its own. And then he went on to criticize Congress and the administration for not coming up with a comprehensive immigration plan. He then tried to cast the decision to withdraw the program as a decision, an example of leadership, listening to the people of his state and the wishes of New Yorkers, but the reality is it was going nowhere.

So there you have it just moments ago, New York Governor Eliot Spitzer announcing his decision to withdraw that controversial plan to issue drivers's licenses to illegal immigrants.

COLLINS: Think you pay too much for gas? High prices at the pump are hitting working people the hardest.

Find out why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And welcome back, everyone, to the CNN NEWSROOM.

I'm Tony Harris.

COLLINS: Hi there, everybody.

I'm Heidi Collins.

Red light cameras catch red light runners. And in Springfield, Ohio, a terrible crash to tell you about.

Take a look at this. Police say nearly 30 seconds after the light turned red, which you'll see here in a minute, a car went through the intersection, crashing into a semi-truck.

Do we have the video, guys?

We are unfortunately not going to see it. I wish I could tell you about all the issues we're having, but I think you'd get bored with it. So -- oh, here we go.

OK. Let's go ahead and take a look at it now.

You're not going to believe it though. Look. You see the car trying to brake before it hits the semi.

Obviously, that did not happen. This is in slow motion, obviously.

It looks like the car will make it under the truck, but, in fact, it was dragged more than 150 feet.

HARRIS: Wow.

COLLINS: The car's driver is in the hospital in serious condition. The truck's driver though was not hurt.

HARRIS: All right. Let's take you to the New York Stock Exchange now. Let's listen in. There you have it. The opening bell. So, what do you say we got the business today started after a big day for the Dow yesterday? Men, for the big day. Where are we going to head today? The Dow starts today at 13307 after picking up 319 points yesterday. One day up, the next day go down, go figure.

We do have a lot of reports today coming out and more comments from Fed Chair Ben Bernanke for the markets who consider this morning. We are watching it all with Susan Lisovicz in the CNN NEWSROOM. But right now, let's talk to Ali Velshi. Time to "Mind Your Business" a little bit this morning. Ali Velshi joining us from New York and Ali...

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's with the listening? Let's listen, you think the bell's going to be different, it sends the words going.

HARRIS: You know, you know what that is? That is just one of those things that we got lock in to doing everyday here. You're absolutely right. There's no reason to do it because it's the same every dog-on (ph) day but it happen and we -- thank you, Ali from this forward.

VELSHI: I never study it. And it could be that the bell rings a little differently and...

HARRIS: No, no, you're absolutely right. VELSHI: It tells you some story. It tells you that business is underway and you're very right. After the day that we had yesterday 320 points up, the second biggest day for the Dow all year. People are looking at it. Now, look at this. By the way, you like my new barrel?

HARRIS: What did you do? Did you (INAUDIBLE) and you did some things. A little graphic art on it or something.

VELSHI: My last barrel was like an Upper East Side Manhattan.

HARRIS: I love it. I love it.

VELSHI: You know shiny and clean. Yes, this is the barrel. This is where oil close yesterday, $91.17. That's where it settled. It's already actually higher than that now by about a $1.50. But this is not where we thought it was last Wednesday, when you and I talked and we thought it was going to $100 but it's still pretty high and it making its way into gas prices. Right now, we got gas prices of $3.11 per galloon, national average for unleaded sell for gasoline. But there is a study out, a very interesting study out from the Oil Price Information Service that says that this is disproportionally affecting people with lower income.

HARRIS: That makes sense, yes.

VELSHI: Sure, because you're buying the same gas but if you don't have the money for it, you're still driving. Let's take a look. Compare two places. They compared Wilcox, Alabama and Hunterdon County, New Jersey. Very different places. In the Hunterdon County, the income was about $90,000 and Wilcox was about $20, 000. The difference was in the rich area, people were paying about 1/2 percent of their income on fueling one car for a year.

In the poorer areas, more than 12 percent almost 13 percent and in fact in Alabama, Mississippi, and Kentucky that average was above 11 percent of your income, your yearly income. And that's kind of fascinating. And remember that if you are in either a poorer area or a more rural area, you don't have the same access to public transportation. So, here in New York, the income levels are higher and you don't have to drag your car around.

HARRIS: Exactly. You know, it's interesting, I have a line from that study that you're talking about there, Ali, it says that lower income people effectively pay 8 times more to fill up.

VELSHI: 8 times, sure.

HARRIS: So, is there any relief and in sight for working folks.

VELSHI: Well, I mean, what we always hope for is that, when gas prices do reach about $3 a galloon, people will see their investment in their future is getting more efficient car. I mean, we always like to tell people to use public transit but this report shows, we're talking about people and place where they don't have effective public transit. So, no, the only way to get some relief is to lower your consumption. Not a lot of people think oils stays at these levels but not a lot of people thought oil would get to these levels right now. So, you now, that $5 in Kentucky.

HARRIS: And this is the same group of people that can't afford all of the new fangled technology and some of the new fuels and new options that were out there.

VELSHI: Yes, it's expensive to be green in the short term and we're in the holiday shopping season so this people are making decisions between you know, shopping for the holidays or filling up the tank. It's a tough decision.

HARRIS: Love the barrel. Good to see you, Ali. I appreciate it, thanks.

COLLINS: A tug of war over water. George praise, who pays? Southern English over the drought.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Las Vegas, high stakes for O.J. Simpson. Today, a judge will hear a final testimony and then decide whether Simpson should face a trial that could send him to prison for life. CNN's Thelma Gutierrez is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Simpson and two others face 12 criminal charges including kidnapping which carries a possible life sentence. They are accused of holding up two sports memorabilia dealers in a Las Vegas Hotel in September. Simpson has said he never saw any guns and that he was just taking back items stolen from him. But his former golfing buddy Walter Alexander told the court it was Simpson who asked him and others to carry guns into the room.

WALTER ALEXANDER, O.J. SIMPSON'S BUDDY: Lean forward and then it was like, hey, do you think you can get some heat?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did that mean to you?

ALEXANDER: That means that he wanted me to help him to acquire some guns.

GUTIERREZ: He says the plan was to flash the guns to intimidate the dealers.

ALEXANDER: At first, the plan was that we we're suppose to show the guns but right before we went in the room, he did tell Spencer to put his gun in his hand.

GUTIERREZ: Alexander also says it was Simpson who told him to leave town.

ALEXANDER: He was like if you get out of town then you don't have to worry about going to jail. GUTIERREZ: Police arrested Alexander at the Las Vegas airport two days after the incident. He pleaded guilty to lesser charges last month. Simpson's lawyer tried to show Alexander has a grudge against Simpson for not posting his bond.

ALEXANDER: I was upset because he had gotten me in all of this trouble and he didn't seem to care whatsoever what happened to me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: And Thelma Gutierrez is joining us now live. Thelma, what are we expecting to see happen in court today?

GUTIERREZ: Well, Heidi, Albert Beardsley, the memorabilia dealer and one of the two alleged victims in this case is expected to take the stand in about an hour and a half. Now, he will be the final witness called by the prosecution. After that, both sides will have an opportunity to summarize their cases and then it will be up to the judge to decide whether O.J. Simpson and his two co-defendants will be bound over for trial.

Heidi?

COLLINS: OK, Thelma, we know you will be watching it closely and we'll check back in a little bit later on. Thelma Gutierrez, thank you.

And you can see the O.J. Simpson hearing live if you'd like it. It is streaming all day on cnn.com.

HARRIS: Georgia's governor praying for rain. The historic drought drying up water sources and creating new worries in Georgia and beyond. CNN's John Zarrella is along Florida's Apalachicola River. John, good to see you. Georgia's governor says that Atlanta needs the water from North Georgia's lakes. What are the folks down there saying?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the folks down here say they need it just as much. You see the shrimp boats sitting here behind me? Well, they're ought to be out in the Gulf of Mexico shrimping. They're not because of the two-year long drought that this whole area in the southeast has been under. And they say that any further restriction in water is just going to continue to damage the entire seafood industry here. They're already finding oyster beds are dying all over Apalachicola Bay and the state of Florida says that any further reductions in water coming down here could lead to a catastrophic collapse of the industry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Five days a week for the past 20 years, Eugene King has made a living on the oyster beds of Apalachicola Bay on Florida's panhandle. For King and Chris Gold and on the next boat over, this is a way of life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of us, dried up doing -- grew up doing this and all we want to do and that's all we know.

ZARRELLA: But their way of life, they fear, may be coming to an end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where oysters used to be heavy here, they're not now because they're not getting enough fresh water.

ZARRELLA: The fresh water in the bay comes from here, the Apalachicola River. For ions, it has provided the perfect mix of salt and fresh water to sustain a smorgasbord of Atlantic life, but the historic drought in the South East, the slow the flow of fresh water from its source, hundreds of miles north in Georgia. And, now, officials there are calling on the army corps of engineers to further reduce the amount of water leaving Georgia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need the water just as much as they do.

ZARRELLA: Dan Townsmere (ph) heads River Keepers. A group dedicated to preserving the Apalachicola River.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know what the future holds for them without fresh water.

ZARRELLA: The signs are already there. As the salt water from the Gulf of Mexico replaces fresh, upsetting the perfect balance. Cat tails along the river bank turning brown. In the bay, salt water creatures that feast on oysters are moving in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a major critter (INAUDIBLE) there.

ZARRELLA: That is the cock. Scientists aren't sure how long it would take without fresh water before the environmental damage would be irreversible. State official say losing the oyster industry would cost Florida $126 million and bring an end to a way of life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll probably the last generation in my family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Now, the scientists say that while it looks great here on the Apalachicola River, the problem is that that salt water is slowly making its way up the river and what you're doing is, you're going to be carving out all of those species that live in this wonderful mix of fresh and salt water and that it's just going to be replaced by salt water species. Now, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, tomorrow, is expected to release what they call an ecological impact study.

An opinion on what further reductions in the water level in the Florida flow out of Georgia would do to the Apalachicola River and then next month, the governors of Florida, Georgia and Alabama are going to get together, Tony, in Tallahassee and hopefully, cobble out some kind of a water compromise, but it is certainly could be a disastrous down here if that water flow is curtailed even further.

HARRIS: It reminds us that there are a lot of stakeholders in this battle over water.

ZARRELLA: Yes.

HARRIS: John Zarrella for us this morning. John, good to see you. Thanks.

COLLINS: Want to go ahead and get to Jacqui Jeras now standing by in the weather center. So much to talk about because either it's the lack of rain or too much rain. Clearly depending on where you are in the country. But down here, we're trying to get used to the idea of a whole inch of rain. Right? You know? If we're lucky?

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: A mother pleads for a sentencing change to help her sons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN GARRISON, MOTHER OF CONVICTED OFFENDERS: Well, I try not to be frustrated because then I can't concentrate. I won't be able to hear the things I need to hear to understand what is going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: New rules for crack cocaine convictions. Will they be retroactive?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: The 54 million dollar pants and the judges lawsuit against his dry cleaners, guess who is paying a big price today? That story in about two minutes.

But first, new guidelines take time off for many crack cocaine sentences but should the rules be retroactive? CNN's Kelli Arena reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Karen Garrison sat quietly as strangers discuss the fate of her twin boys, both in jail for possessing crack cocaine.

KAREN GARRISON, MOTHER OF CONVICTED OFFENDERS: Well, I try not to be frustrated because then I can't concentrate. I won't be able to hear the things I need to hear to understand what is going on.

ARENA: The U.S. Sentencing Commission is considering whether to make new sentencing guidelines for possessing crack retroactive. Those guidelines will shave about 15 months off many sentences and supporters say that it's only fair to apply them to people already serving time. That would affect more than 19,000 prisoners.

REGGIE WALTON, U.S. DISTRICT COURT: From the standpoint of sending the message to those in our society who sometimes believe that our society really doesn't care about them, I think it's important that we send a message that we do.

ARENA: But critics say letting criminals out early could cause even more problems in communities already under siege.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are going to see an influx of the very people who are most likely to re-offend and most likely to upset these fragile neighborhoods.

ARENA: That's a hard argument for this mother to swallow. Her sons are college graduates with no prior criminal records. They were fingered by a convicted drug dealer but no drugs were ever found on them. The men refused to plea, maintaining their innocence for nearly ten years.

GARRISON: And they're just waiting. Hopefully, that it will be made retroactive because if it's not made retroactive, it will be a lot of hearts broken and a lot of disappointment.

ARENA: Even if the sentencing guidelines are made retroactive, a sentence reduction is not guaranteed. Prisoners will have to go before a judge for consideration.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: The dry cleaner lost his pants and now a Washington judge has lost his job. You probably remember Roy Peterson. He filed a $54 million lawsuit against the cleaners that stirred up a lot of talk and outrage. And now we've learned, city officials in D.C. have voted unanimously not to reappoint him. He served as an administrator law judge for two years.

HARRIS: A rising fuel prices hiking the price for airline passengers so why is one airline flying empty?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Another noose in Louisiana. Racism or a bad joke? The FBI investigating. The story ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: An airline under fire admitting to making dozens of empty trips across the Atlantic while passing the rising price on to passengers. CNN's Emily Chang explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EMILY CHANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're being called ghost flights. British Airways planes flying thousands of miles across the Atlantic Ocean, without a single passenger on board. Over the last two weeks, British Airways has flown dozens of empty flights between London and New York, Los Angeles, Toronto, and other cities. In a statement, B.A. admitted to staffing problems. Recently, we've experienced a temporary unavailability of cabin crew to work on certain flights. It has been necessary to fly aircraft with only pilots and cargo on board to minimize disruption to customers. This, as the airline announced passengers would pay more to cover soaring fuel costs. A typical transatlantic flight would burn over a hundred tons of fuel at a cost of more than $200,000.

SIMON CALDER, AIRLINE ANALYST: I think passengers who have booked in the lowest of seasons in mid-November, yet are still being hit for big fuel surcharges are going to be appalled that an airline, the size and scale of British Airways simply doesn't have enough cabin crew on the right days.

CHANG: Airline analysts say B.A. may also be trying to hold on to valuable takeoff and landing slots at London Airport. A claim that B.A. vehemently denied. Whatever the reason, environmentalists are enraged.

That it's flying these ghost flights and spewing out thousand of tons of greenhouse gas emissions. It's an absolute disgrace. B.A. says the decision to fly empty planes has not been taken lately and they're striving to correct the possible as soon as possible, but until then, the so-called ghost flights threaten to haunt the airlines brand and business. Emily Chang, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: A gas station worker couldn't believe it. Was it a ghost?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I watched it for half an hour and then actually I see it move, that's really I got freaked out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The strange blue blob. See it?.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Good morning, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins.

HARRIS: And I'm Tony Harris. Stay informed all day in the CNN NEWSROOM. Here's what's on the rundown.

Did airport screeners get a heads up? Undercover agents would try to slip past them. Congress wants to know, this hour.

COLLINS: The Blackwater shootings. A report says the deaths of 14 Iraqi civilians were not justified. Will the Americans be prosecuted?

HARRIS: A Lebanese woman, her relatives with possible terror ties. How did she end up on the payroll of the FBI and CIA? Security blunder, this Wednesday, November 14th, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com