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Barry Bonds Situation; Pakistan's Emergency Continues; Marching Against Hate
Aired November 16, 2007 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PHILLIPS: He may be a free agent, but Barry Bonds still risks prison if convicted of lying to the feds about steroids. We're going to get the score from Mel Antonen of "USA Today."
One small step for Benazir Bhutto, one giant blow for Pakistan. The Pakistani president frees Bhutto from house arrest, then cracks down even harder on independent media. Our Zain Verjee is there.
Hello everyone, I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Don Lemon joins us from Washington in just a moment. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
He's got his eye on the Hall of Fame, but prison now is a real possibility for home run king Barry Bonds. A federal indictment accuses Bonds of obstructing justice and lying to a grand jury about steroid use back in 2003. If convicted Bonds could face 30 years in prison, but the slugger's attorney says that's not going to happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL RAINS, ATTORNEY FOR BONDS: Now that their biased allegations must finally, finally be presented in open court, they won't be able to hide from their unethical misconduct any longer. The public is going to get the whole truth, not just selectively leaked fabrications from anonymous sources.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Bonds' trainer Greg Anderson was released from prison just last night, hours after Bonds was indicted. Anderson has been behind bars for more than a year for refusing to testify against Bonds. Anderson's attorney says his client never cooperated with the fed's investigation.
Here's a look back at the Barry Bonds controversy. The steroid whispers began when Bond's physical transformation changed in the late 1990s. At the same time his power at the plate surged. The indictment says that investigators found so-called doping calendars. They were marked BB and were dated 2001. The indictment accuses Bonds of lying during a 2003 grand jury investigation. Steroid suspicions persisted while Bonds chased the home run record, one of the most sacred titles in sports, by the way, and on August 7th, he claimed the record for himself, hammering homerun number 756 and insisting that his achievement wasn't tainted by anything.
Another big development in the Pakistan crisis, but you won't hear about it in Pakistan. Two independent TV networks are going off the air at the request of President Musharraf. CNN State Department correspondent Zain Verjee is in Lahore, Pakistan. Zain, we understand the networks actually broadcast from the United Arab Emirates, right?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. This is just coming into CNN. These channels are going to be shut down within the next few minutes. These are the two main Pakistani channels that are being broadcast out of Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, and they're being forced to shut down because of pressure from the Pakistani government on the United Arab Emirates. Those channels are called GEO and ARY. They're already off the air in Pakistan, but the thing is Kyra, that people could watch them via satellite both here and around the world. But what's happening is the actual transmission is being shut down. What the Pakistani government had wanted the owners of these news channels to do is fire their anchors, force them to just quit, because they didn't like what they were saying and these channels refused. They said no way, we're going to keep our anchors and we're going to keep the correspondents that are on the air.
This is really an extraordinary thing to happen. Dubai is a pretty media friendly city. I was just there a few days ago. They have a whole media city. So for this to happen is pretty significant. We spoke to one journalist there who says they're doing this to cripple us both financially and personally. Kyra?
PHILLIPS: Now Zain, have you received any pressure? Is it possible that you may be asked to shut down and leave the country?
VERJEE: Well, it depends on what we say, how we say it and how the Pakistani government interprets that, whether this is a sensitive situation. So far I've been able to say whatever I want. Nobody has tried to restrict me, but CNN is off the air, along with BBC and other international channels in Pakistan. If you have satellite, though, you can get CNN. The other thing, too, is that local journalists here are really being cracked down on and there are major restrictions on print as well as television. Some of the rules are things like you can't criticize Musharraf, you can't criticize the army, you can't criticize the prime minister, you can't cover suicide bombings. About 11 journalists have been arrested and are in jail. So it's an unfriendly environment and one has to be a little careful, but CNN and me personally haven't had any issues.
PHILLIPS: Zain Verjee in Lahore, Pakistan, thanks Zain.
And you've heard about recruitment problems that the services are having as these wars drag on. They're also having problems keeping the troops that they have, and I don't mean retention, I mean desertion. Associated Press says that the desertion rate for fiscal 2007 is the highest since 1980, up 42 percent from last year, up 80 percent since the war in Iraq began in 2003. Army figures show 4,698 soldiers deserted in the year that ended October 30th, 3,301 in fiscal 2006. This year's number works out to about 9 in every 1,000 soldiers.
Hundreds of people are dead in the wake of a monster cyclone on the west coast of Bangladesh. Some estimates put the toll at more than 1,000. At least 600,000 fled to higher ground, many are only now learning that their homes are gone. This is the calm after the storm. Village after village, homes and crops in ruin, no phone service, no power in many areas. And CN has learned that Washington is ready to help, if asked. Defense Secretary Robert Gates is expected to approve plans today to send three marine amphibious war ships to that region.
Heading home for the holiday already? Well you might want to take your time.
(WEATHER REPORT)
PHILLIPS: Marching for justice, a big rally going on right now in Washington. Demonstrators calling on the Justice Department to step up its prosecutions of hate crimes. Those at the department say they do that. My co-anchor Don Lemon is there. Don?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hey Kyra, how are you doing? You know what, we just got that statement just a little bit ago from Michael Mukasey at the Justice Department, and of course the Justice Department saying that a lot of the stuff that these folks are fighting for already falls under the civil rights legislation that's already working, and not everyone agrees that there should be civil rights or hate crime legislation, and some think it's really hard to enforce, because the laws are so sort of streamlined and restricted. I know you talked about this as well when you did your special in Jena, Louisiana, and also with the nooses. How do you actually prove the motivation here? Also we talked about it when you were in Jena, were there any white people in the crowd? Here there were a few of them, not a ton, but I sort of went around and did an informal poll of people here on the street, blacks, whites, Hispanics, everyone. Most people agree they say that there should be hate crime legislation, they don't really understand the intricacies of that.
One gentleman said though, you know although I think that there should be, I think that it's too hard to enforce, and it's very tricky in that situation. So it would be interesting to talk to an attorney to find out exactly what the challenges are when it comes to this type of legislation. I'm going to show you exactly behind me -- you can see the crowd has thinned out somewhat. We're not in the middle of it because the march is not going on now. So we can step back and take a perspective there. So a lot of the people have thinned out, going back to their buses, going back to their prospective cities, but really, Kyra, when you cover something like this and you talk about these situations, and you talk about race and hate and legislation and all of that, it really gets people riled. You see how people feel on one side and how people feel on the other side. People can be very polarized around this particular issue. So this is sort of the end of all of this, folks are just sort of dribbling out in dribs and drabs. Kyra?
PHILLIPS: All right. We'll keep following it, Don. With you talking a lot about what's happening there in that rally, we're also going to be talking with someone who is not in support of hate crime laws, a number of arguments in opposition to that. We're going to talk live with that guest coming up in about 20 minutes. Meanwhile, new Attorney General Michael Mukasey has put out a statement on today's marches. He tells CNN, the department is aggressively investigating dozens of noose hangings and other racial offenses across the country. Mukasey goes on to say quote, "The Justice Department shares with those who demonstrate today their objective of bringing to justice those who commit criminal acts of hate. It shares their vision of eradicating hate in our society. He adds, the department must follow the law and the principles of federal prosecution in every case it investigates and prosecute." Joining me now on the phone with his thoughts on the march and hate crime legislation, former congressman, one time U.S. attorney Bob Barr. Bob, are you there in Washington?
BOB BARR, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I'm here in Atlanta Kyra.
PHILLIPS: You are in Atlanta. Well, tell me what you think of these marches that are taking place around the justice department today and the fact that these marchers are saying look, these hate crimes are not being prosecuted, we need justice.
BARR: Well, certainly we all want to see justice done, but simply because a group of marchers, including the very well-known Al Sharpton decide they have nothing better to do than to trot around the justice building is not going to manufacture a case. These cases, despite Mr. Sharpton's admonitions, take a great deal of time. You don't want to proceed with a case just to proceed with a case on an arbitrary time frame and wind up losing it. The Justice Department, including the time when I served as the U.S. attorney in Atlanta, is very careful about making sure that they have the correct evidence and sufficient evidence to win these cases, not just to bring them for the sake of bringing them.
PHILLIPS: So do you believe in the hate crime law, and that individuals should be prosecuted for hate crimes?
BARR: I was never during the time I served in the congress and currently am not a proponent of hate crime legislation.
PHILLIPS: Why?
BARR: Any crime certainly against a person is a hate crime from that standpoint. And if the problem is, if you overlay on top of the evidence that you already need if you have somebody that is threatening another individual, conspiring to harm another individual, or whatnot, if you add to that the additional elements that would be required for a hate crime, including the person's intent, for example, you actually wind up making the prosecutor's job more difficult rather than easier.
PHILLIPS: So you're saying -- let's say, for example, someone hung a noose in the yard of an African-American family and threatened that family and said, if you come out of that house, I will hang you by that noose. Are you saying that if you were to prosecute that as a hate crime versus just a threatening crime against an individual, threatening to kill somebody, are you saying it's more difficult one way or another, or using one versus another? BARR: It is, because you have additional elements that you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and you have to get into the person's mind with a hate crime to show their intent, as opposed to your more traditional criminal prosecutions. If in fact a citizen for racial reasons, for example, is threatening another individual, and that can be by acts as well as by words themselves, that's already a crime, and those cases are prosecuted. I prosecuted them when I was the U.S. attorney in Atlanta and U.S. attorneys prosecute them on a regular basis where the evidence suggests it.
PHILLIPS: Do you think there's a double standard in the justice system when it comes down to prosecutions with regard to African- Americans?
BARR: Not at all. There's no double standard at all. What Al Sharpton and the others who -- I don't question their motives, they're genuinely concerned about these crimes as we all ought to be, but their time would be better spent trying to work with the people in these communities to assist law enforcement rather than trying to browbeat them into moving quickly on a case just for the sake, it seems, of moving a case forward, without really thinking through, you know, what is this going to do to the eventual prosecution, and are we not more interested in successful prosecutions rather than quick prosecutions?
PHILLIPS: Former congressman and former U.S. attorney Bob Barr, thanks for calling in Bob.
BARR: Always a pleasure, Kyra. Thank you.
Barry Bonds talks with a few sports writers, but one who has interviewed him, will talk with us live and give us his take on Bonds' indictment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: 3:17 eastern time right now, here's three of the stories that we're working on in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thousands of people have descended on the nation's capitol demanding more federal action against hate crime. New Attorney General Michael Mukasey issued a statement just a short time ago, pledging that his department does support the prosecution of hate crimes.
Lawyers for homerun king Barry Bonds say they are surprised that Bonds was indicted yesterday on federal charges. That indictment alleges that Bonds lied when he testified that he didn't knowingly take steroids.
And the death toll keeps climbing in Bangladesh. A local news agency says at least 1,100 people were killed when yesterday's huge tropical cyclone crashed into the country.
This time yesterday Barry Bonds was a free agent ready to wheel and deal. Now after a federal indictment Major League Baseball's homerun record holder may have to wheel and deal to keep himself out of prison. How surprised should we be by this and how surprised is Bonds? USA Today sports writer Mel Antonen has interviewed Bonds more than just once. He joins us in Washington. So what's your first reaction, Mel?
MEL ANTONEN, USA TODAY SPORTS WRITER: Well it was a long time in coming, but I guess the reason for that is that the government just wanted to make sure they had every I dotted and every T crossed. They wanted to make sure they had the goods on Barry Bonds and that's obviously why this took so long.
PHILLIPS: What's your gut? You've interviewed him, you're a smart reporter.
ANTONEN: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: It's true, I mean, do you think you're going to be disappointed in what we find out as this goes further?
ANTONEN: No, I don't think so. I think there's got to be something there. There's a lot of unanswered questions. This takes good aggressive journalistic reporting, I think fans are tired of it, but it's a very big story. It's important that the journalists probe and I think we're going to find out a lot about the steroids era and Barry Bonds.
PHILLIPS: How will this affect baseball? Recruiting? How we look at athletes? How successful athletes become? Are they really the real deal or are they juicing?
ANTONEN: It's a huge credibility issue for baseball and other sports, but baseball had a record year this year, they had incredible races, they had incredible players playing, and I think baseball is bigger than Barry Bonds, and I think baseball can survive this. But there's no question that fans are tired of debating steroids controversy, as is debating who should be in first place, let's say in the national league west. It does give baseball some problems, but baseball has overcome things so many times in the past it will overcome this. But again, this is going to take center stage for a while, and it's certainly something baseball doesn't want.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk about the competitive nature, taking it to the next level. Barry Bonds already an unbelievable athlete. If indeed he was taking steroids, why would somebody -- I mean, you interview so many types of athletes -- want to do that? He's already a great athlete, he's already the home run king, why would he even want to do that to his body, his career, take that risk?
ANTONEN: Because athletes are bred to be number one. It's in them. It's in them to want to push the envelope and it's in them to do everything they can to be the best possible number one athlete. When fans expect it and when ownership pays big money to expect it, you know players are tempted to go ahead and push the envelope and do these kinds of things. Barry Bonds was a hall of fame player, one of arguably the best player, Kyra, in baseball history before the steroids issue came about, and, you know, hung on him.
PHILLIPS: But, Mel, will he still be looked at that way? Will he still be looked at as an amazing athlete and someone that is so different from everyone else, if indeed it turns up that he was juicing?
ANTONEN: That's a good question. I think Barry Bonds' legacy is this, that he wasted with steroids, with possible use of steroids, he wasted a fantastic career, a once in a lifetime career. He and Babe Ruth arguably the two best players in baseball history, so there's always going to be this debate of how good Barry Bonds is and was, and whether he took steroids and whether the home run record is legitimate or not. But, you know, Barry Bonds ruined an unbelievable career.
PHILLIPS: And it's sad. Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, these great players, do you think they would have done steroids if given the chance?
ANTONEN: Boy, that's a good question. You ask good questions, you're a good journalist yourself. I've never talked to Babe Ruth, I'm not that old. He might have, though. If steroids were in hot dogs, he probably would have.
PHILLIPS: I just want to go back to the good old days. All right Mel, great seeing you.
ANTONEN: Thanks Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well you know it's time to give up the wildlife when --
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I screamed and I screamed, somebody help me, he's going to kill me.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And she thought he was tame.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange following the markets for us right now. I didn't get a chance to catch the numbers there Susan. What did it say, how are the Dow industrials.
SUSAN LISOVICZ: I got nothing for you Kyra.
PHILLIPS: The bulls are just tired. We had a big explosive rally on Tuesday. The Dow up more than 300 points. It was a sell-off Monday, Wednesday, yesterday, and today, if you just take a look at the big board, you'll see that we're treading water at this point. But Starbucks shares are on the move as we've been talking about. Starbucks saying for the first time ever, that foot traffic in its U.S. stores are down, imagine that. It actually reported solid quarterly earnings, but that's because of growth overseas and Starbucks says it's going to advertise for the first time ever. Other stocks we're watching FedEx, FedEx is a good barometer of the U.S. economy because so many companies and so many people use its services. It's lowering the forecast for the year, because higher fuel prices and oil prices are higher today by nearly $2. You see the Dow has been fluctuating, a volatile day, but the moves are not that big. That's the good news. The NASDAQ right now is break even. We're in the final 35 minutes of trading, so I'll be watching the numbers and I'll see you at the closing bell.
PHILLIPS: Sounds good, see you in a little bit.
As Americans get fatter, policy makers look at ways to legislate the way we eat. In today's fit nation, Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports on a Los Angeles community taking zoning to a healthier level.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): South L.A., more than 95 percent of the people here are minorities. You'll find no large restaurants and few grocery stores. Just fast- food places that dot the landscape with neon signs and billboards. That concerns city officials. Thirty percent of L.A.'s population is in south Los Angeles, but 40 percent of the fast-food restaurants are there as well. The health department says that's unfortunate, because one in three people in south L.A. are obese.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have issues of diabetes, hypertension, childhood obesity, morbid obesity.
GUPTA: Terry wants to ban new fast-food restaurants from building in south L.A. for at least a year, she also hopes to attract sit-down restaurants and more grocery stores.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is an effort to push forward a healthier agenda and to give people some choices that they have not historically had.
GUTPA: Although obesity may not be eliminated entirely, studies show zoning laws are a good first step to fighting the problem. The big national fast-food chains do offer healthy alternatives, but people have to choose them. Lawmakers say that's not enough, and it's time to upgrade the food establishments in a neighborhood that has gone so long without.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Again, that's our Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Marching for justice -- that's what they did. Thousands of people converging on the U.S. Justice Department, demanding more federal prosecutions of hate crimes.
We're going to check back now in with my co-anchor, Don Lemon, who is at the rally. It calmed down, though, quite a bit.
LEMON: Yes. I thought you were telling me to calm down. I was like I haven't been excited all day.
But, listen, can -- you can see it, right?
Folks have packed up...
PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. It's cleared out.
LEMON: And they're gone.
I've got to -- you know, this is beautiful. This is off the flight (ph). Let me show you this here. Their crew stepping out of the way.
Look at the Capitol back there -- the sun shining -- or setting right on it, right?
Isn't that a nice shot?
Just...
PHILLIPS: Beautiful, and the clouds...
LEMON: Yes, very beautiful.
Just, you know, about an hour ago, folks were on that -- that's Pennsylvania Avenue -- marching around the Justice Department, which is over there. And then now you see this plaza, Freedom Plaza here, fairly quiet as folks start to go back.
Aisha (ph) has to go back to Philadelphia. She missed a day of college today. A lot of young people involved in this, regardless of what you feel about what should -- what was accomplished or should be accomplished about this. A lot of people heard about this on their college campuses. She did from her mom. But a lot of young people are hearing about it over the Internet, as well, and over the radio.
And some of these young, you know -- if you want to call them civil rights activists -- are saying it's a new era when it comes to civil rights.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (voice over): 1963 -- a quarter of a million people inspired by the message and the messenger to march for justice in the nation's capital.
Tyrone Brooks was just a teenager.
TYRONE BROOKS, GEORGIA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: As a 16-year-old child standing in this ocean of people, it was unbelievable.
LEMON: Forty-four years later, the long-time Georgia state representative marched again -- this time in Jena, Louisiana -- where hangman's nooses, symbols of hate from a time gone by, came back to haunt, yet inspire, a new generation.
BROOKS: That became kind of a national call. Students, primarily, were fueling that, as students fueled the sit-in movement across the South in the 1960s.
MARCUS COLEMAN, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK : And our chapter is 85 percent under 40.
LEMON: For Marcus Coleman and young civil rights leaders, 1960 sit-ins have given way to 21st century online activism.
COLEMAN: We have a lot of perks and pluses which that -- the civil rights movement in the past did not have as far as being able to utilize collecting people together.
LEMON: The new director of Atlanta's chapter of the National Action Network used radio and the Internet to organize 10 busloads of marchers headed for D.C. And a national protest led by his mentor, the Reverend Al Sharpton.
REV. AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: And the reason why Jena has hit such a nerve is because of the imbalance and unfairness in how justice is dispensed in various parts of America.
LEMON: Sharpton and Coleman want intervention by the U.S. Justice Department -- not only for Jena, but for the string of noose-related incidents that followed. Also for cases like Genarlow Wilson, the 17- year-old high school student convicted of having consensual sex with a 15-year-old girl -- sentenced to 10 years before the courts ordered his release; the shooting of an unarmed African-American man, Sean Bell, by New York City Police officers; and the kidnapping, rape and torture of 20-year-old Megan Williams by a group of whites in West Virginia.
The Justice Department would not agree to an on-camera interview with CNN about the protest, but released a statement saying: "In the last several years, the criminal section of the civil rights division has set records and achieved notable successes in prosecuting defendants for civil rights violations."
Yet government records show a decrease in hate crime reports, investigations and convictions in the last 10 years. And civil rights activists, both past and present, want to know why.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: And, of course, just maybe about an hour ago, we heard from the new attorney general, Michael Mukasey, releasing a statement saying that, of course, prosecuting civil rights violations and also hate crimes important -- important, especially under his -- under his clock (ph).
We just saw that beautiful, beautiful shot of the Capitol there and also the Justice Department here along Pennsylvania Avenue. Washington starting to get back to normal.
I just want to say, real quickly, we were talking about young people.
You guys came from Detroit?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
LEMON: We're talking about radio.
How did you hear about it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard it on the "The Michael Baisden Show."
LEMON: On the radio. So a lot of folks on the radio, as well as on the Internet.
So, as you heard the young civil rights guy there in the story, who is from Atlanta, say they think it's sort of a new era when it comes to civil rights and young people -- young people are now wanting to get involved and wanting to take action-- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right.
Don Lemon thank you so much.
And not everybody agrees with what happened in Washington there. Civil right activists see this as a -- there is not a need for a march for justice in Washington.
A bit of a different view now from Joe Hicks, who is an activist -- a civil rights activist and a radio talk show host.
He joins us now from Los Angeles.
Joe, obviously a different approach to what we've been hearing and seeing today.
Tell me why you think this march was pointless.
JOE HICKS, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Well, I'd like to see these people, in fact, marching for, you know, making sure schools work right. I'd like to see them marching to reduce the levels of homicide in communities. I'd like to see them marching to reduce the black/white education gap in this country. They're not doing that.
So I'm -- with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek, I am a little bit confused about what they're marching for. We've heard Michael Mukasey say the Justice Department is doing everything it can. It is prosecuting crimes as vigorously as it can where facts dictate. So I'm not exactly sure what it is that this crowd wants, other than perhaps maintaining a sense of racial victimization in this country -- that blacks remain victims of America -- that people like myself and others, including King and a whole host of civil rights figures, marched and suffered to make this nation a tolerant, open society and, argue that it, by and large, is today.
PHILLIPS: So, Joe, let me ask you this then. These incidents -- let's take the nooses, for example, OK, and all the incidents across the country. And I -- more than likely, yes, it's a copycat situation. But, still, people are doing it. They're hanging nooses to send a message of hatred to blacks.
So my question to you is, is there an epidemic here of hate crimes?
Or is this just an undercurrent of racism that because of the Jena 6 and all the attention that it got and the march we saw in Jena, it's sort of pushing this undercurrent up. And so, hey, we're faced with -- we haven't been dealing with racism. This is an issue.
HICKS: Listen, every major news channel in this country, including yours, covered extensively -- probably CNN more than any other -- the Jena 6 marches. And, yes, there was clearly a spike in these noose hanging incidents around the country. There is every time there's a highly publicized incidents of this kind -- or any other. There are copycats. There are pranks. There are all sorts of things that take place.
Has there been some vicious spike in actual hate crimes -- physical hate crimes against blacks?
The FBI's national hate crimes bank says no.
So then what are we talking about?
We're talking about pranks and perhaps stupid, ignorant, bigoted individuals doing this sort of thing. But we're not talking about, you know, actual physical hate crimes against black people, which are the kind of things I'd be concerned about. So we're not talking about that.
So then what is it we're really marching to argue here -- that there's been some -- that racism is ascendant in the United States?
Well, you can certainly rhetorically make that claim, but it's hard to make -- based on the fact that we have struggled and made this country a far more open society and just the statement of the attorney general indicates that. An attorney general, four years ago, I would have argue, would have taken a far different stance.
PHILLIPS: I want to ask you the same question I asked Bob Barr, former Congressman, former U.S. attorney general. And I said to him OK, let's say a member of the KKK hung a noose in the yard of an African-American family and said you come out your door, you are going to be lynched right here in your front yard. OK?
Should he be prosecuted for a hate crime or should he be prosecuted for attempted murder?
HICKS: Well, you know these issues of nooses and burning of crosses on lawns have been argued back and forth in courts and by civil libertarians. The ACLU has taken up these kinds of cases. The argument has often been that what you're often talking about is vicious, nasty, hateful political speech. Now, you can -- you can charge people with vandalism, burning crosses on lawns, hanging nooses on their property. That's vandalism. Once those individuals put their hands on somebody and there's some attempted lynching -- which, by the way, is something that doesn't happen in America these days -- then you've got a prosecutable crime.
The whole issue of nooses, though, is debated among civil libertarians about what we're really talking about here, which made it uncomfortable in Louisiana, by the way, in Jena. Because in the statutes in Louisiana, they didn't have a statute they could prosecute these young people around for hanging those nooses in the tree. But yet we had Sharpton and others marching through Jena claiming that there was some racist motive -- PHILLIPS: You know, Joe, that was...
HICKS: ...for not charging these young people.
PHILLIPS: It was an opportunity lost to educate those boys -- those boys. And I was there and got to know members of the families and talked to a number of them. And when I walked away from that, I saw a lot of ignorance, is what I saw.
HICKS: Well...
PHILLIPS: and that -- it's sad, because they had an opportunity to educate those kids, educate that school and really take a horrible situation and could have turned it into a lesson to teach.
HICKS: Well, Kyra, that may be the case. But there's a lot of ignorance in America -- along both sides of the racial divide. But to argue, again, on the question of what should happen to them and then -- these young people who hung the nooses -- and then say that it was equivalent to a young man almost being kicked and stomped to death is, to me, ludicrous to make that kind of claim -- that's been made by some.
So let's put all of this in context. And then to spin off of that and create a march in Washington, claiming racism is ascendant in America, to me, just smacks of a bit of racial exploitation here.
PHILLIPS: Joe Hicks, civil rights activist; also a radio talk show host.
It's always interesting to talk to you, Joe.
I appreciate your time.
HICKS: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: Thanks for making it in.
HICKS: Good to be with you.
PHILLIPS: Presidential hopefuls jostle for attention and time in front of the camera. But there's one man who could keep them on track and on time. That's right -- our man, Wolf Blitzer. And we're going to talk to him on how he does it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Now a tragic story of an Internet hoax gone terribly wrong. A Missouri girl, 13-year-old Megan Meier, killed herself. Her parents say it was because she was being harassed by a boy she met online. But he wasn't really a boy. He was a phony person created by Megan's neighbors -- who left nasty messages on her MySpace page.
Megan has been dead for a year now. And on tonight's "ANDERSON COOPER 360," her parents talk about why they think someone should be held accountable. And they remember the last time that they saw their daughter alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TINA MEIER, MOTHER: I was upset with her because I didn't like the language that she was using. And I was upset she didn't listen to me and sign off when I told her to. And so I was aggravated with her about that and told her that she knew better. And she just said to me, you're supposed to be my mom. You're supposed to be on my side. And she took off running upstairs. And that's the last I had seen of her alive and heard her words. That was it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: You can see the entire interview with Megan Meier's parents tonight, "ANDERSON COOPER 360".
Join Anderson, 10:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.
Most guys who played college football look back on it pretty fondly. And once they reach a certain age, they long to go back.
And then there's Mike Flint.
In this week's Life After Work, our Ali Velshi has the story of a former player who did more than reminisce.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's game time at Sul Ross State University and Number 49, Mike Flynt, is in blocking for the kicker. But this backup linebacker isn't your typical player. You see, Mike Flynt is 59 years old.
MIKE FLYNT, LINEBACKER, SUL ROSS STATE UNIVERSITY: I played 37 years ago as a junior and came back my senior season during tour days, got into a physical altercation and was kicked off the team. This past summer, we had a reunion. One of the former players mentioned to me that I might still have some eligibility. I told him I still felt like I could play.
VELSHI: Since Flynt never played his senior season, he had a year of athletic eligibility left. So he decided to try out and he made the team -- primarily due to the great shape he is in. After graduating in 1972, he worked as a strength coach for various university athletic programs and later on invented an exercise product. But part of him felt unfulfilled.
FLYNT: For more than years than I can remember, I regretted not only not being able to play my senior year, but I felt like I let my teammates down. And so this was an opportunity for me to come back and make up for those guys I let down so many years ago.
VELSHI: So Flynt is out there playing against kids that are his grandchildren's age for a coach that is eight years younger than him. And despite some minor injuries, he's playing in games and looking ahead to his next challenge.
FLYNT: Well, we got the NFL draft and -- no. Ha-ha.
VELSHI: Ali Velshi, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: They all think they're qualified to run the country. So when you put a bunch of presidential candidates on the same stage jockeying for face time, things get a little out of hand -- unless, of course, Wolf Blitzer is there.
He rode west to Nevada and managed to corral a stage full of sometimes stampeding candidates. And, as expected, he did it with style -- even a little attitude. That's what I love about, Wolf. At times, you're just not sure how to handle him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He gets a chance to go back to the White House...
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Senator Edwards, we're going to give you a chance in a second.
We're going to give Senator Edwards a chance to respond.
I want Senator -- Senator Biden to weigh in.
Senator Biden...
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DW), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
BLITZER: I want you to weigh in.
BIDEN: Don't do it. No. Don't make me speak.
BLITZER: I want you to.
Go ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: So how did he do it, you ask?
Well, what can I tell you?
That's just Wolf.
He's already back in Washington, D.C. -- Wolf, good to see you.
That's just one moment that was very memorable about last night. But I want to get to another one, real quickly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: I just want to make sure I fully understand all of you Democrats.
Are you ready to commit absolutely, positively, that you will support the Democratic nominee no matter who that nominee is -- no ifs ands or butts?
Senator Edwards?
JOHN EDWARDS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is that a planted question?
BLITZER: Yes, I planted it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: You didn't plant that question, Wolf.
You did a very good job of preparing yourself for this.
BLITZER: You know, we had a great team, Kyra, helping. Everybody was involved in putting those questions together -- John Roberts and Campbell Brown, Suzanne Malveaux, our political unit. We spent a lot of time trying to gear up to make sure we would do a good job. And, all in all, you know, these things are never perfect. They're never the way you want it to go a 100 percent. But we did our homework and I think, in the end, it came out OK.
PHILLIPS: Well -- it came out OK. Listen to you. The Wolf pack was running wild.
Here's another great moment about driver's license for illegal immigrants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I support the notion that we have to deal with public safety and that driver's licenses at the state level can make that happen.
BLITZER: If...
OBAMA: But what I also know...
BLITZER: All right... OBAMA: But what I also know, Wolf, is that if we keep on getting distracted by this problem, then we are not solving it.
BLITZER: But -- because this is the kind of question that is sort of available for a yes or a no answer.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well...
BLITZER: And either you support it or you oppose it.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well...
BLITZER: Let's go down and get a yes or a no from everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: You called him on it, Wolf.
You totally called him on it.
BLITZER: It was not that difficult. Either you support driver's licenses for illegal immigrants -- as some of those Democratic presidential candidates do -- or you oppose driver's licenses for illegal immigrants. The -- you know, you can try to spin out and talk about, you know, you need comprehensive immigration reform. But in the absence of comprehensive immigration reform -- and it doesn't look like that's going to succeed -- at least in the short-term -- what do you do about driver's licenses?
And I just tried to get a simple yes or no from these candidates. It wasn't always easy, as you know, getting that out of these professional politicians. But you do -- you do the best that you can.
PHILLIPS: Was there anything that surprised you last night?
What's...
BLITZER: You know, I was surprised at -- you know, the -- there were a couple of thousand people there at the Cox Pavilion at UNLV, at the University of Las Vegas. And I was surprised how, you know, at one point, they started booing John Edwards and Barack Obama. I don't know if that -- if we had heard that kind of situation before, because they were clearly unhappy about some of the negative comments -- the criticisms that they were leveling at Hillary Clinton.
And whenever they started to get into it, you could start hearing that. And that did, in fact, surprise me. I didn't necessarily that was going to -- we were going to get that kind of response. I had done two of these debates earlier -- early in June, a Republican presidential debate and a Democratic presidential debate -- and there were really no boos or anything like that. There were applauses. There were some comments. But that did, in fact, surprise me, as the two hours went on.
PHILLIPS: Well, they definitely weren't booing you. I saw you sign more autographs at the end of that show than those presidential candidates, Wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: They had nothing else to do, those people. So -- they couldn't get the candidates, so they were willing to accept me.
PHILLIPS: You're such a humble guy. That's why we love you so much.
A great job, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, you did it once with the Democrats. Now it's time for history to repeat itself. Go to CNN.com/YouTubedebates and post your questions for the Republican presidential candidates. Their debate coming up Wednesday, November 28th. Your voice will be heard only on CNN -- your home for politics.
If you want a new computer, you can solicit the help of Burt Reynolds, Ice-T, George's mom from "Seinfeld."
Susan Lisovicz will tell you how and have a wrap of all the action on Wall Street, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: The closing bell about to ring on Wall Street.
Susan Lisovicz standing by with a look at the final trading -- or the final look at the trading day -- hey, Susan.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I read you loud and clear.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
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