Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Drew Peterson Courts the Cameras Again
Aired November 20, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MIKE BROOKS, GUEST HOST: Tonight: He says the media won`t leave him alone, but it seems Drew Peterson is the one who can`t stop talking to the cameras. Twenty-four hours ago, he lawyered up, refusing to say much about his third wife`s mysterious death or his fourth wife`s disappearance. But today, it`s a different story, Peterson back at it again, this time without his lawyer. He says his young wife, Stacy, left on her own and pleads with her to come home. Peterson also admits too (ph) controlling but denies being abusive. And tonight, Peterson`s mom lashes out. She blames her missing daughter-in-law and says Stacy Peterson should be ashamed for leaving her kids.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother of ex-cop Drew Peterson says he would never hurt anyone. She told a Chicago newspaper she`s ashamed of Stacy Peterson for running away and putting her husband and children through this. Peterson`s a suspect in Stacy`s disappearance, and the death of his third wife is under suspicion. Peterson denies any involvement in his third wife`s death or Stacy`s disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: And breaking developments tonight. A mysterious 911 call leads police to a home of a 3-year-old Texas girl, but she`s nowhere to be found. After conflicting stories from her mom and stepdad, police find the little girl dead in the trunk of the family car. Just moments ago, Police announced two arrests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A concerned 911 call, then police find a 3-year- old girl dead in the trunk of a car, the grisly discovery at this apartment complex in El Paso`s Lower Valley. That`s where police show up for a routine welfare check on a toddler girl. But the 3-year-old is missing. Her mom and stepfather tell different stories about what happened to the little girl. That`s when officers searched the apartment and then the family`s car, the 3-year-old`s body found stuffed in the trunk of her mom`s Dodge Stratus. But tonight, police and shocked neighbors want to know why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. First tonight: He wants the media to leave him alone, but Drew Peterson is the one who can`t stop talking. Peterson goes back on the airwaves yet again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You say the media`s bothering you, the media`s bothering you, and it`s harassment. But don`t you think we`re helping in the search for Stacy?
DREW PETERSON, SUSPECT IN 4TH WIFE`S DISAPPEARANCE: Well, go out and search. You know, they`ve been through my house a few times, so it`s, like, It`s not here. So there`s nothing to see here. So you know -- am I worried about her and her safety? Yes. I have been from the beginning. But people aren`t asking that. They`re asking, How are you reacting? How are you feeling? So I`m answering that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drew Peterson would never hurt anyone. That`s what the former cop`s mom told a Chicago newspaper. And then she went on to say she`s ashamed of her daughter-in-law, Peterson wife, Stacy, for running away and for leaving her son to face all this suspicion. Drew Peterson is a suspect in his wife, Stacy`s, disappearance, and the death of his previous wife is under scrutiny.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, Drew Peterson says he is under a magnifying glass and he`s tired of the media, but he keeps putting his mug out in font of the cameras.
For the latest, let`s go out to Ed Miller from "America`s Most Wanted." Ed, what is the latest going on in Bolingbrook right now?
ED MILLER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Well, probably no big, giant bombshells, but a bunch of little pieces of details that we can put together for you. We can tell you that the grand jury tomorrow -- Steve Carcerano, he will testify in front of the grand jury. He is the man who found the body of wife number three, so he will be questioned by the grand jury specifically about the details, how the body was positioned, exactly who was where and exactly what he found when he went into that house.
We should point out that Drew`s fingerprints are no longer important in this case because his fingerprints had rightfully a reason to be there because he used to live in that house.
BROOKS: Right.
MILLER: Also in front of the grand jury tomorrow will be Scott Rosetto (ph). Now, he is described as an old acquaintance of Stacy, certainly not a love interest, but some people may be trying to portray him that way. But he will go in front of the grand jury to answer questions about his relationship with Stacy.
BROOKS: And let me ask you about Scott. His name has come up a number of times. Now, isn`t he the one who apparently she called about three weeks before her disappearance?
MILLER: Yes, absolutely. She said that she found his phone number, and you know, she was having some tough times and she wanted someone to talk to. But again, that`s what she`s saying, that there was no -- excuse me -- that he is claiming that there was no romantic interest involved this at all, that it was just an old friendship.
BROOKS: Now, do we know anything at all about the evidence? You know, cell phone evidence, two search warrants, computer evidence -- now, it should be -- they should be able to trace whether or not Scott Rosetto did speak to her three weeks prior to her disappearance.
MILLER: Yes. As far as Scott`s phone conversations, yes, they have confirmed that he did have conversations. As far as evidence against Drew, I should point out that as of now, unless they`re hiding something, there is no concrete evidence of anything of any way, shape or form against Drew and Stacy`s disappearance.
I can tell you one strong theory that they`re working on, that somehow Drew took this ultralight aircraft that he has, that is able to land anywhere, that he took it up in the sky and scoured the area, looking for a place to perhaps drop the body of Stacy. And that is one theory that they`re working on. And we do know for a fact that police went to the airport where that plane is kept and did question people.
BROOKS: Now, didn`t "America`s Most Wanted`s" Jon Lieberman -- didn`t he go up with a good friend...
MILLER: Right.
BROOKS: ... of Drew Peterson, Rick Mims, over the weekend?
MILLER: Right.
BROOKS: Did they find anything?
MILLER: No. And you know, there was some talk and some wild speculation that perhaps that he took the body up in the airplane and then dumped it over the airplane. They`re now saying that that probably was just wild speculation from the very beginning.
But the fact that he may have taken the airplane up in the air to scour the area, to look where a good place might possibly be to hide the body -- and again, we`re only speculating here and I`m only telling you what police theory is -- theories that they`re working on right now, but that`s one that`s come to the forefront.
BROOKS: Especially if it was an ultralight. Now, if it was -- if it was a Cessna, like we see here, I would say, yes, that could be a possibility of him taking a body, putting it inside of this. But with an ultralight, I would find that highly improbable.
Let`s go out to the lines. Cindy from Pennsylvania, thanks for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks, Mike. You`re doing an awesome job in Nancy`s absence.
BROOKS: Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re welcome. I have two questions. First one is, have there been any sightings? Is there a number that`s being posted where if you see this young lady, you`re supposed to be calling? And have we had any type of concrete sightings of her that have been followed through on?
BROOKS: Ed Miller from "America`s Most Wanted."
MILLER: No concrete sightings whatsoever. But if anybody knows anything, they can always call 1-800-CRIMETV. We`ve got it all over the Web site, radio and television.
BROOKS: Let`s go back out to the lines. Pat from Ohio, thanks for joining us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I was wondering, I know her family and friends have said she would never leave her children, but are they looking at the possibility she could have run away just to get away from him, that she might have been that scared of him?
BROOKS: That`s also a good question. Ed?
MILLER: Well, again, yes, they are looking at that. One piece of evidence -- let me correct something that I said earlier. One piece of evidence that keeps coming up -- now, no one has this evidence, but they`re searching very hard for this piece of evidence that could connect everything together -- is relatives of Stacy believe that somewhere there is a diary which documents all of this alleged abuse against her. And they`re looking very, very hard for that piece of evidence, and whether or not maybe parts of it even were left with in different places or not.
We should point out why this is so very, very important is wife number four was being romanced at the time wife number three was killed, or we now believe that she was killed, that -- at the same time. So wife number four may very well know something about the death of wife number three, and she may have been holding that over his head. And that`s why what could possibly be in these supposed diaries is so very important.
BROOKS: And you know the other thing, Ed, that I was thinking about today, if you look at his pattern, he seems like he always has a woman on deck, if you will. There`s always one to proceed -- to come after the other one. So is there -- has anyone said anything at all -- and we heard from Rick Mims that he was quite a ladies` man, quite a flirt. And we`ve heard from wife number one that he was having an affair. She didn`t have anything to say about his abusiveness towards her. But has anyone spoken anything at all about Drew Peterson having another woman on the side right now?
MILLER: Not that we know of. Although, again, you`re absolutely right. This has been a pattern. And you are right, also, that wife number one says there was never any sort of abuse and the reason that relationship broke up was because of his extramarital affairs, or alleged extramarital affairs. But as these marriages and as the years went by, he seemed to be a lot more bold about these affairs and about being little more domineering in the relationships between he and his wives.
BROOKS: Let`s uncage the attorneys. From New York, we have Sue Moss, family law attorney and child advocate. Also in New York, renowned defense attorney Mickey Sherman. And from Atlanta, Ray Giudice, another extremely well-known defense attorney, from Atlanta. OK, Susan. He`s been named a suspect. Why haven`t they charged him yet?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, it`s coming. It`s coming. It`s coming shortly, and we`re going to see a lot of things happening in the next few days. This guy -- continue to talk, and a jury will never let you walk. It`s really going to be interesting to see what happens. But the more he talks, the more inconsistencies he is coming up in his stories.
BROOKS: Ray, you know, we hear about inconsistencies in the timeline with his good friend, who was basically an advocate of his, and then when he confronted him with it, basically said, Hey, you know -- he didn`t have anything to say. And now, you know, he`s coming out in front of the media. If you were his attorney, would you just tell him to just shut up?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`d start with duct tape, Mike, wrapped liberally around his mouth.
(LAUGHTER)
GIUDICE: If that didn`t work, I don`t know what I`d do. Susan is spot on. Every one of these statements is going to be lined up against this guy. However, I will say I don`t think there`s a shortage of motivation or opportunity here. What law enforcement needs and wants is a body, a time, place and instrument and cause of death before they indict. I think there`s plenty of evidence of motivation.
BROOKS: Now, Mickey, you know, you`ve got this grand jury that`s been sitting for a while now. We heard from Ed Miller there`s going to be two more appearing there tomorrow, some key witnesses. And we`ve also heard -- again, CNN can`t confirm this, but we`ve also heard that he pled the 5th when he, Drew Peterson, was in front of the grand jury. What do you think about this?
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think that`s terribly damning. I think a lot of people...
BROOKS: Whoa, whoa, whoa!~ If you have nothing to hide and he`s out in front of the cameras, you know, he won`t talk to a grand jury, but he`ll talk to the media?
SHERMAN: Right. Because if the media -- if you screw up your statement or give inconsistent statements, the worst that`s going to happen is Matt Lauer`s not going to invite you back so soon.
BROOKS: But all this -- all these -- all these interviews he`s doing, correct me if I`m wrong, they can also be brought in as evidence.
SHERMAN: And we saw it happen in the Scott Peterson trial. I mean, it`s incredibly stupid. But by the same token, to get an indictment from the grand jury, you need something more than a script from a Lifetime movie to be. And that`s all they really have now. I mean, he may very well be guilty, but right now, there`s no evidence. You need a body.
I`m going to say what I said at the beginning of the Scott Peterson trial. Scot looking for the wife. Look for the girlfriend. Find the Amber Frey in this case and you may have some decent evidence.
BROOKS: And again, we want to remind again our viewers that he has not been charged. Drew Peterson has not been charged, but he has been named a suspect.
Right now, I want to go out to Larry Sutton, joining us in New York. He`s staff editor for "People" magazine. Thanks for joining us.
LARRY SUTTON, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: You`re welcome.
BROOKS: Now, "People" did an interview with him. What did he have to say to you all?
SUTTON: As a matter of fact, our reporter, Nickie Eagan (ph), sat down with him for two hours, and he told us a number of things we found fascinating. One, he admitted, yes, indeed, he has fooled around on every wife, except this one. Wife number one, two and three, yes, he was guilty. This one, he said he never fooled around.
Two, he sticks to his story that his wife disappearance. The last he saw her, he says, was when she jumped -- they were in bed together 9:00 AM on a Sunday morning with their kids. He went back to sleep, never saw her again. He maintains that she`s got a boyfriend. He maintains that she told him, I`m leaving you for my boyfriend. And that`s the story he tells and that`s what he`s sticking to.
BROOKS: Was he compensated for this interview?
SUTTON: Oh, absolutely not. We don`t pay for interviews. No.
BROOKS: OK. OK. Now, how was his demeanor? How did your reporter describe his demeanor with her?
SUTTON: Oh, she was a little impressed with him. You know, he`s a charming guy. He can be charming. He told her that he`s lost about 30 pounds over the past couple of weeks, worrying and stressing about this. He broke down only once. When he first started talking about his missing wife, he did break down into tears, left the room for a little bit, came back. But for the rest of the interview, for the remaining two hours or so, he maintained his composure, very straightforward, gave yes or no answers, and was the first to admit, I`ve done bad things in my life, but also said, you know, You guys only focus in on the bad aspects of my life. I`ve done a lot of good things, and no one talks about that.
BROOKS: OK. He`s been on "People" magazine, but he was back out in front of the cameras yesterday, after his "Today" show interview, coming back on the way in the house. Let`s listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETERSON: I`m feeling very tired about everything. This is very grueling. I mean, look at this. Who am I? I`m Drew Peterson, and three weeks ago, I was a Bolingbrook policeman (INAUDIBLE) my life, and now I got this. Everybody`s surrounding me. It`s very cumbersome. I`m pretty well burned out. I`ve lost 30 pounds to date. So if anybody wants to go on a weight loss program -- you could probably use it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need it big-time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel like (INAUDIBLE)
PETERSON: I`m not looking for (INAUDIBLE). If I went around beating a stick on the bushes, I`d get this. Watch this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, you`re obviously -- you know, you`re used to being around the media.
PETERSON: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) and, you know, some people say your antics are pretty colorful and that you`re not the typical person that most people...
PETERSON: I`m not the typical person I am. I`m normally a lot more humorous like that, so...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well (INAUDIBLE) making light of this at all (INAUDIBLE)
PETERSON: No, it`s just who I am, you know? I always make light of a bad situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: That was Drew Peterson out in front of his home in Bolingbrook, Illinois, talking to the media because he doesn`t like to talk to the media.
Right now, I want to go to Houston, Texas. Dr. William July, psychologist and author of "Behavior of Interest" -- very, very ironic that you authored a name of this book and we`re seeing this behavior of interest. What do you have -- what`s your opinion of all this?
WILLIAM JULY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Mike, this is exactly what I`m talking about in "Behavior of Interest." We`re looking at one or two things here. Either he is a narcissistic personality and he can`t help but to go and get in front of the cameras -- it reminds me of O.J. because he`s (ph) always in trouble. And this guy is doing the same thing. He`s got to stay in front of the cameras.
Or the other alternative is that he is trying to -- because he knows what he`s doing, he`s a former detective and everything, maybe he`s playing to all of us and he`s trying to push forth an image of innocence by doing the things that an innocent person would do, which is to be forthright and forthcoming. But when we watch him, we see narcissistic behavior.
BROOKS: I would say so, too. And we`re going to talk more about this behavior, and we`ll be taking your calls.
But to tonight`s "Case Alert." A stunning 911 call. Was it vigilante justice gone too far? A Texas man shoots two men he says are trying to break into his neighbor`s home, and it`s all caught on tape. After repeated pleas from dispatchers not to shoot, 61-year-old Joe Horn (ph) pulls the trigger, killing Manuel DeJesus (ph) and Diego Ortiz (ph). Police say -- allows people to use deadly force in Texas to protect their property. So far, Horn has not been charged, but the case could go before a grand jury.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JOE HORN, SHOT TWO BURGLARS: Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will you? Because I ain`t going to let them go. I`m going to be honest with you. I`m not going to let them go. I`m not going to let them get away with this (DELETED)
911 OPERATOR: Mr. Horn, do not go outside of the house.
HORN: I`m sorry. This ain`t right, buddy.
911 OPERATOR: You`re going to get yourself shot if you go outside of that house with the gun. I don`t care what you think.
HORN: You want to make a bet?
911 OPERATOR: OK, stay in the house.
HORN: I`m going to kill them.
911 OPERATOR: Don`t go out of the house. Don`t be shooting nobody. I know you`re (DELETED) and you`re frustrated, but don`t do it.
HORN: Well, here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking, and I`m going.
911 OPERATOR: Don`t go outside.
HORN: Move, you`re dead!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: And tonight, check out the latest messages, photos and video from Nancy about the twins. Go to CNN.com/nancygrace and click on Nancy`s baby blog.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drew Peterson wants reporters to just leave him alone. He`s the newly retired police officer in suburban Chicago. His current wife`s been missing for three weeks, and his last wife mysteriously drowned in an empty bathtub three years ago. Another ex recently said that he told her he could kill her and make it look like an accident. But yesterday outside of his home, he didn`t seem to have a worry in the world except for the cameras.
PETERSON: Please go home. Please leave me alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. He`s telling the media leave him alone, go home. But it looks like he hasn`t met a camera that he didn`t like, that`s for sure, at least for the last number of days.
Yesterday, also, his fourth wife, Kathleen Savio, was reburied after she was exhumed last week. Joining us by phone is a very, very special guest. It`s Sue Doman, Kathleen Savio`s sister. Sue, thanks for being with us.
SUE DOMAN, KATHLEEN SAVIO`S SISTER: Thank you, Mike.
BROOKS: I know you`re going through a tough time. Yesterday you reburied your sister. How`s your family doing?
DOMAN: It`s very hard. It`s not every day that you bury someone twice. Very difficult for us, and we`re grieving very much for her. But we did promise her that we will seek justice for her. No one can hurt her anymore.
BROOKS: And you`re absolutely right. No one can hurt her anymore than she`s already been hurt. What are your reactions to the many interviews that you`ve Drew Peterson give on the "Today" show...
DOMAN: You know, from what I know of Drew, Drew puts on a big front. He likes attention. He wants everyone to believe that he is a good guy. And he has a lot of baggage behind him.
BROOKS: Now, we know that there was one autopsy done by Dr. Blum there that was ordered after the exhumation, and then you all wanted to have an independent done -- independent autopsy done by noted pathologist Dr. Michael Baden. What did he tell you about the autopsy he conducted and what his conclusions are so far?
DOMAN: Dr. Baden had talked to us in the beginning, trying to get a timeframe and everything. He came back and he said that it was definitely -- she was beaten. She was hit in the back of the head with something very strong. Her hands were all bruised up from her trying to defend the person that did this to her, several marks that were visible still. She was placed in the bathtub, and she was holded down to drown.
BROOKS: Sue, we`ll be back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETERSON: The thing is, there`s not really a case yet. There is no case yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is an investigation.
PETERSON: There`s an investigation, as there should be. So it`s like, I`m a suspect (INAUDIBLE) suspect from the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just because you`re (INAUDIBLE)
PETERSON: I`m the husband. I`m the husband. I was just the husband, so -- but there`s a lot more I`d like to say to you, but I can`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Thanks for being with us. Again, Drew Peterson out in front of his house, in front of the cameras yet again. We just heard from Sue Doman talking about Kathleen Savio, his fourth (SIC) wife, who they just reburied after two autopsies, actually a total of three.
Joining me in studio is Dr. Marc Siegel. He`s an internist of "False Alarm," former ER doc at NYU Bellevue (ph). Doctor, is it unusual to have three autopsies?
DR. MARC SIEGEL, INTERNIST: Absolutely. It`s unusual to exhume a body. The whole process is very unusual.
BROOKS: Now, they said they`re disputing Dr. Baden`s results. What do you think about that?
SIEGEL: Well, his results are very striking. You know, he`s talking about bruises and a lot of signs of trauma, and I think, you know, there`s every reason to believe that there probably was trauma here. I mean, look, people do slip in bathtubs and there are accidental deaths very common in the United States. Under these circumstances, I`d say accidental death`s very unlikely.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PETERSON, SUSPECT: Who am I? I`m Drew Peterson. Three weeks ago I was a Bolingbrook policeman living my life and now I have this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you get?
PETERSON: Please go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you cross the media --
PETERSON: Please go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a pig?
PETERSON: Please leave me alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you get?
PETERSON: Please go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get nothing because there`s some things a pig won`t do.
PETERSON: I`m feeling very tired about everything. This is very grueling. It is mind boggling. You know? It is just like people looking at me under a magnifying glass. I`m feeling burnt out. What I had for breakfast is noteworthy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, Thanksgiving is coming up in a couple of days. What is Drew Peterson thankful for?
PETERSON: I`m thankful I don`t have enough turkey for al of you guys. I have lost 30 pounds to date. So if anybody wants a little weight loss program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need it big time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks in for Nancy Grace. Well he says there`s some things a pig won`t do, but we know one thing he sure will do, and that`s talk to the media on a regular basis.
Right now joining us from Washington D.C. is Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport." Pat, what do you think about this guy -- what this guy`s behavior over the last week?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well first of all, I think action speaks louder than words and we know he is a liar because he says he doesn`t like the media, but he does love the media. So that we know right up front. And I think it`s real interesting what his mum says. She says she`s ashamed of Stacy. And if I were in her position, I would be ashamed of raising a son like that, a lying, cheating adulterer, scumbag of a son like that. And I can tell you if it was my son, there would be one less plate at the Thanksgiving table. But this is the kind of mother that will raise a son like this, kind of like a psychopath from a narcissist, in my point of view.
BROOKS: I want go back down to Houston, Texas to Dr. William July, psychologist and author of "Behavior of Interest." I love the name of this book, doctor, and I`m definitely going to get this book because I want to find out what`s more in that book especially you as a former law enforcer, like myself. But what Pat Brown is saying, do you agree with her?
JULY: Absolutely. Let me just back up for a second. Regardless of whether or not he did something, all you have to do is look back at the chain of behavior. That`s what I`m talking about here, the chain of behavior. You go back to wife number one, wife number two, three, four - you see a consistent pattern, a consistent set of complaints about isolation from people.
You know, sort of abusive-type of behavior that -- the affairs, all of these things. When you put them together, they start painting a bigger picture for you. Now you have got the wife who`s disappeared and the wife who is speaking to us from the crypt. So that`s what I mean by behavior of interest. That behavior tells us something, human behavior is like a book.
BROOKS: That`s right. I would say that for sure. Let`s go out to the lines. Kristy from Georgia. Thank you for joining.
CALLER: Hi, Mike.
BROOKS: How are you doing?
CALLER: Hope you`re doing well.
BROOKS: Thanks, doing real well, thanks. You have a question?
CALLER: Well, I have a comment, actually. I was watching the first - - very first interview that you showed and I noticed that he said and I`m paraphrasing here, I don`t know -- they searched my house three times and it`s not here. Instead of she`s not here. I found that very telling, like a body.
BROOKS: Kristy, Kristy, you should have been the investigator on this -- on the case of Kathleen Savio because that is something we were talking about tonight. That is a great observation. I want to ask Dr. July. What do you think when he talks about that as an inanimate object. What does that mean?
JULY: Well, when he talks -- I lost you for a second there Mike, can you repeat that?
BROOKS: No apparently Kristy was saying something about searching the house and it`s not here, speaking of his missing wife as an it, as an inanimate object.
JULY: Absolutely, Mike. That tells us volumes, again, about the mindset that we`re dealing with here. It is depersonalized. It`s distant. It`s objectified. So when you hear an it, that is not a slip of -- that`s not a slip up. That`s something bubbling up from the unconscious mind.
BROOKS: Sue Moss, weigh in.
MOSS: Modus operandi. Wife number two tells us that she was threatened to kill her and make it look like an accident. Wife number three drowns in a bathtub with no water. Wife number four, anybody`s guess. This guy is taking a page from Scott Peterson and Stacy does rhyme with Laci.
BROOKS: Again, we want to remind people that Drew Peterson has not been charged, but he has been named a suspect.
Let`s go back out to the lines, Joel from Florida, thanks for joining us.
CALLER: Thank you, quick question.
BROOKS: Sure.
CALLER: I don`t believe in psychics. I don`t believe in them. But has the state police, the local police, the FBI ever called one in? Second question which I just thought of. Have they done a voice analysis on Mr. Peterson?
BROOKS: Well, on the psychic part, Ed Miller, I don`t believe they called in a psychic. As an investigator, I have never used a psychic in any of my cases. But have they even talked about using a psychic at all?
MILLER: No. They have not, no, absolutely not.
BROOKS: I didn`t think so.
MILLER: And in terms of voice analysis, the police have not but, of course, the media are all talking about how calm he was and how he responds to different questions in interviews.
We should point out that one question you just had, what are you thankful for on this Thanksgiving and he has the flip answer about the turkey. Notice how a normal response would be something about my children. They`re obviously supposed to be the most important thing in his life, next to his wife.
And yet, he doesn`t mention the children at all. He talks about turkey. I mean, it is just -- says so much about the kind of person he is.
BROOKS: It really does. Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "Killing for Sport," you agree with Mr. Miller?
MILLER: Oh, yeah. His interests all in the wrong places. Everything he says just -- it gives us all the heebie jeebies. And I think a normal response from people. It`s funny when people say, that guy, something just didn`t come out right about that guy. But then ignore their feelings and go ahead and marry the guy. Hey, listen to your initial feelings because you`re probably right.
BROOKS: And just one other thing on Joel`s question. Joel from Florida was asking about voice stress analysis. I have used polygraphs during investigations but never used voice stress analysis. And I can tell you that investigators would rely on a polygraph again as an investigative tool, more so than a voice stress analysis. Want to go out to Alan from Tennessee. Allan, thanks for joining us.
CALLER: Thank you, hi Mike. I got a couple of questions. Did they ever check in? Drew Peterson said she withdrew a lot of money before she left. I wonder if the police ever checked into that. And also, does he have a life insurance policy on Laci (sic)?
BROOKS: Larry Sutton from "People" magazine.
SUTTON: Yes, the cops of course are going to look at all bank records, so they will be checking something like that. As far as the life insurance policy, I don`t know that. But I know that the wife number three who died, he gained full possession of the house they bought together after she died. So perhaps there is some financial advantage to this.
BROOKS: I want to go out to Sue Doman and she is Kathleen Savio`s sister. Kathleen Savio, Drew Peterson`s third, number three wife. And again, her body was exhumed and she was just reburied just yesterday. Thanks again for being with us, Sue.
What`s your family - and I know it`s a really tough time for you all right now but when did you expect the final results of Dr. Baden`s autopsy to be finished with?
DOMAN: It would be in two weeks. These results will be coming as far as knowing if she was drugged or poisoned or anything they didn`t look for before.
BROOKS: I want to go back out, joining me here on set is Dr. Marc Siegel. He`s an internist and author of "False Alarm." Former New York doctor at New York Bellevue. Now, we have been talking about the autopsy.
MARC SIEGEL, INTERNIST: Yes, Mike.
BROOKS: Talk a little bit more about the toxicology and what they can glean from someone who`s been in the grave for that many years.
SIEGEL: Well, you know, obviously, very surprising that they wouldn`t find out from the beginning in the first autopsy whether there was a poisoning involved, some type of toxic substance.
There are still trace elements that are going to be found in the bones, in the hair that`s left and the nails. But you know, what I think the money here is still with trauma. I don`t think it`s an accident that Dr. Baden is seeing all these results of bruises. They can last for many years.
And you know as Sue Moss said, a bathtub without water? You know, if I go home tonight and you find me in a bathtub tomorrow, you better ask my wife what she was doing.
BROOKS: Now her hair was still wet allegedly when her body was found. She had a gash on the back of her head and, in fact, the petition for exhumation, one of the reasons they did allow that is because they said that there was not enough -- there was no blood that would be consistent with the size the laceration was on the back of her head.
SIEGEL: Well, OK, so people do slip, but people also fall and people are pushed. So, the laceration on the back of the head, it`s hard to know how that happened. I`m looking at the overall picture here with bruises and lacerations.
BROOKS: Original autopsy, six or seven old bruises.
SIEGEL: Well and that`s a sign that there`s been a lot of trauma previously. So you have someone that`s been beaten. And whether they`re beaten right now, you know, this is a very clever person.
I mean, say that he is, of course, the murderer. We don`t know. But he`s a very, very clever person. It`s hard to put this together. He`s trying to get it so that we can`t put it together. That would be the way he would do it. But a bathtub where someone is found dead, I`m not surprised that we`re finding this out now. And I think exhuming the body was a very smart thing to do.
BROOKS: What about Dr. Bloom`s autopsy? Do you think it would be basically the same finding as Dr. Baden`s?
SIEGEL: Well, you know, there`s some room here because we have several years that have gone by. Dr. Baden is very specialized and very good at this.
All the findings may not be exact. There`s a room for an art here. But remember, there may be some differences, but overall I think we`re going find a traumatic death, a homicide.
BROOKS: Now we`re going to discuss this more. But when we come back, a 3-year-old Texas girl found dead in the trunk of the family car.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROOKS: A routine welfare check at an El Paso home leads police to the body of a 3-year-old little girl, a little girl found dead in the trunk of her family`s car. More when we come back and we`re taking your calls, 1-877-NANCY-01.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the death of a 3-year-old girl in El Paso, Texas, is being investigated as the city`s latest murder. The toddler found dead in the parking lot of her apartment complex inside the trunk of her mom`s Dodge Stratus. A 5-year-old girl also at the home now in the care of child protective services.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks in for Nancy Grace. A 3-year-old girl found dead in the trunk of her family`s car in El Paso, Texas. And when we came to air tonight, we found out that two people have been charged. Fransisco Castaneda, 25, the stepfather and Yara Perez, 25, the mother.
For the latest, we want to go right out to Jay Koester. He`s on phone with us from El Paso. He`s the editor of "The El Paso Times." Jay, what is the latest in this case?
JAY KOESTER, EDITOR, EL PASO TIMES: Well like you just said, the two arrests. The mother and the live-in boyfriend had been down at the police being questioned all day and about 4:00, 5:00 they finally charged those two in the girl`s death.
BROOKS: When this did all start and when were police called to the home?
KOESTER: About 11:00 p.m. last night, apparently police got a call from a family member. It wasn`t somebody at the apartment complex, but a family member called police and expressed worry that the 3-year-old child may have been in trouble.
The police went out there, talked to those two, couldn`t find the child. So started searching and eventually found the child in the trunk of the mother`s car.
BROOKS: Also joining us by phone from El Paso, Texas is Javier Sabrano. He`s the public information officer with the El Paso police department. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Sambrano.
JAVIER SAMBRANO, PIO, EL PASO POLICE DEPT (on phone): You`re very welcome.
BROOKS: Now, the original call, we heard just from Jay Koester of the "El Paso Times" from a family member and the original call basically dispatched basically as an unknown call. Can you find of fill us in on that?
SAMBRANO: Sure. Many times when officers are responding to a call, we`re basing it on information that`s coming in from whoever is reporting that incident.
The information we had at the time was not a lot. So it went out as an unknown problem at the location. As the officers were arriving, more information was being developed by the communication dispatcher. And so, they were able to provide that. That actually was in reference to a welfare check regarding a 3-year-old child.
BROOKS: Now who made the original call? Was it a family member or was it a concerned citizen?
SAMBRANO: As far as the person or the identity of the caller, at this moment as I am aware, that person didn`t want to be identified. So I will not be able to really disclose anything to the identification of who called.
BROOKS: I from being former law enforcement I understand why you`re doing that because it`s still early on in the investigation. Now what are these two being charged with?
SAMBRANO: Well, what they`re being charged with is injury to a child causing the death. Now, this is an offense under the assaultive category under the Texas penal code.
It is a first degree felony, meaning a person found guilty of this can face up to 99 years in prison. And, of course, in addition to a $10,000 fine.
Now, of course, it`s still an ongoing investigation. We`re still very fresh on there. What, of course, occurred here is through the ongoing investigation where we`re able to reach a point --
BROOKS: Right.
SAMBRANO: Combing the preliminary autopsy that was conducted, the interviews and all of the evidence that led us to have probable cause to go ahead and now proceed with a charging instrument.
BROOKS: Understandable.
SAMBRANO: Warrant and arrest them for that.
BROOKS: Was there any visible trauma to the little girl that was in the trunk when she was found?
SAMBRANO: Yes, there was visible trauma and there was trauma that was, of course, discovered through the preliminary autopsy which, again, added to that probable cause.
BROOKS: I want to go out to Ed Miller, "America`s Most Wanted." Ed, the statements of two parents, were they conflicting? Did they confess to the crime? Do we know?
MILLER: No. As far as I understand it, what happened is they go to the house. They -- they`re looking for the little girl. Mom says one thing. Stepfather says something else. And that`s what made them suspicious and that`s where they started searching the apartment and the car.
BROOKS: Javier Sambrano, public information officer for El Paso Police, did they give any statements? Did they admit to being involved in the death of this little girl?
SAMBRANO: I won`t be able to disclose that. What I can tell you is of course, we did take statements from both of these individuals. As far as right now, we still do have some answers that were answered including fact of how it is that little 3-year-old child ended up in the trunk of the vehicle. Those are still some of the unanswered questions that we have but nonetheless, the evidence, what we observed at the scene, what the officers told us did, of course, lead us to the probable cause.
BROOKS: Jay Koester from the "El Paso Times," do we know if this guy Castaneda has any priors?
KOESTER: I don`t know that at this time. I think they moved in the apartment about four months ago. I don`t know if he had any priors.
BROOKS: I want to bring back the lawyers from New York, Sue Moss, family attorney and child advocate. Also in New York, Mickey Sherman and out of Atlanta, Ray Giudice. OK, you have got these two stellar performers here. Ray, where do you start with them?
GIUDICE: Well you get one each. It is a conflict. You can`t represent them both. But in a case like this, whichever client I had, I`d look them in the eye and I`d say tell me the truth now, not six months from now. Tell me what happened because we`ve got a dead child. Somebody`s responsible. And I would go from there.
BROOKS: Sue, this is right in your house, child advocates. What do you have to say?
MOSS: What`s their defense? Trying out Britney`s new car seat? There is no defense. A 3-year-old is found dead in a trunk and these people are going to pay.
BROOKS: Yeah. And here are the two stellar performers right here. Mickey Sherman defense attorney out of New York, any additional charges come down as the autopsy report comes back?
SHERMAN: Yeah, well first of all, it is a race to the D.A.`s office. That`s what the lawyer`s job is right now, to rat out the other one, no matter who it is because you`re talking Texas.
They kill retarded people in Texas so the public sentiment here, you`re going to se people with pitch forks and torches storming the, you know, the police stations to string them up. This is the kind of case that just absolutely infuriates everybody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROOKS: Now over to "Headline News" Glenn Beck. What`s up?
GLENN BECK, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight I`m going to tell you about a 911 call from Houston. A guy shoots and kills crooks breaking into his neighbor`s house. Now there`s all sorts of controversy on this one. Some say the guy is a killer. Others say that he was a hero. I think it`s just another example of disenfranchisement of ordinary Americans, centering in Texas.
Then, Nancy Pelosi takes on the Salvation Army just in time for Christmas. I`ll tell you about the speaker`s misguided effort to force companies to hire non-English speaking people.
And the latest on Hugo Chavez and what that could mean at the gas pump, coming up.
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks is for Nancy Grace.
A 3-year-old found in the trunk of her family car. Her mother and stepfather are now under arrest and could face up to 99 years in jail. These are the two stellar performers right here. Yara Perez and Fransisco Castaneda.
I want to go right out to Dr. William July, joining us from Houston - psychologist and author of "Behavior of Interest." Doctor, there`s a 5- year-old -- there`s another 5-year-old sibling. Could they get any information that would be helpful to the case from that 5-year-old?
JULY: Absolutely. They can get information from her, but it has to be done by somebody who knows what they`re doing because they`re going to have to be very careful with their respectful of the fact she is a child.
BROOKS: Pat Brown, weigh in.
BROWN: Yeah, absolutely. If they get information from that child, but I want to say also, I`m really thankful that this was a very timely call made by the person because otherwise that body would have been far, far away by morning and we might not have anybody in jail.
BROOKS: I want to go out to Dr. Marc Siegel, joining me here. Dr. quickly, this girl in the trunk, trauma to the body. What does it say to you?
SIEGEL: A horrible situation, could be inflicted by the parents or someone close to the throat, to the face. The biggest question is whether the child could of asphyxiated in the trunk. Horrible to consider, but she could have gotten very anxious, very little air in the trunk. Could use it up very, very quickly by this child.
BROOKS: Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Command Sergeant Major Jonathan Lankford, just 42 from Scottsboro, Alabama. With 23 years of service, he probably fulfilled his dream, achieving the army`s highest rank for an enlisted man. On a second tour in Iraq, awarded the bronze star and legion of merit. A devoted family man, he leaves behind mom Mary Jo (ph), brothers Taylor (ph) and Cameron (ph), widow Cheryl (ph) and 3-year-old son John Jr. Jonathan Lankford, an American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests and to you at home for being with us. Remember to check out Nancy`s baby blog at CNN.com/NancyGrace. We`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, stay safe.
END
