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2,200 Acres Burn in California Wildfires; Analysis Before the CNN-YouTube Presidential Debate; New Jersey Man Wants to End Alimony Payments to Killer Ex-Wife; Dangerous Toys
Aired November 24, 2007 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WHITFIELD: One family found out the hard way, the benefits of having their children tested. "Trouble in Toyland" tomorrow 4:00 p.m. eastern. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The next hour of the NEWSROOM with Tony Harris starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very unpredictable, no way to know for sure what way it's going to go. Just stay alert, have your evacuation plan ready to go.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Next in the CNN NEWSROOM. Fire in Malibu, once again. Firefighters work feverishly to make sure there is no repeat of last month's devastation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have hard evidence that she is dead and I can tell you at any day that counts down, is extra proof that she is not alive anymore.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Heartbreaking words from the prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway case. He says there is no doubt that she is dead.
Plus, perhaps the outrage story of the day. A man ordered to pay alimony to the ex-wife convicted of killing his son.
And good evening everyone, I'm Tony Harris, and you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Santa Ana winds and fire have conspired, once again, to torment southern California. The hills near Malibu are burning. Some 10,000 people have been evacuated. Several homes have been destroyed. Five firefighters have been hurt. Let's check in now with CNN's Kara Finnstrom, she is live for us in Malibu and Kara, if you would, sort of tell the story of this day in Malibu.
KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, as you can see, the wind is starting to pick up again right now. That is going to be a concern for firefighters. But during the last few hours, we've had really those winds dying down and a massive amount of resources thrown at this fire. Just behind me you can see some of this thick smoke. This is one of the canyons where it is continuing to actively burn. We've seen a lot of heavy, thick smoke, which really suggests to you that there is a lot of fuel down there that is being burned, heavy brush with a lot of oil in it. But a little bit earlier today, we want to show you some videotape. Actually, just about an hour ago, we saw a huge DC-10 just fly over here letting out the flame retardant right in front of fire line. And firefighters have told us that during these last few hours, what they've been able to do is try to contain this fire. They're not so much trying to get people out and evacuate and trying to, you know, actually protect structures now as they are actually trying to attack this fire. That fire retardant, one of the things they're doing, they're laying it around. You can see a fire truck heading behind me. But they're laying this fire retardant, we're told, all around the perimeter of the fire. Fire officials tell us they do feel they, are starting to get some good perimeter control. But right now we are still Tony at officially zero percent containment, we still are at 35 homes lost and 10,000 people under mandatory evacuations.
HARRIS: Still, you know, Kara, as I listen to you, I don't hear the real rush of urgency that I heard certainly six weeks ago when you were reporting on the fires in San Diego county and some of the other fires out there in Southern California, that's about six weeks ago now. Is there a sense here that the firefighters have this area pretty much cordoned off and there isn't the real concern of the embers flying? Maybe there is now because the winds are picking up a bit, as was the case six weeks ago?
FINNSTROM: Well the feeling that we're getting from firefighters that definitely have made some headway during these past couple of hours. And I can tell you Tony that as I turn around and I look 360 degrees, I am not seeing the heavy smoke that we saw out here earlier today. Yet, at the same time, officially the numbers haven't dropped. Still at zero percent containment. Firefighters not really willing to say that they're out of harm's way yet. But from all things that we can see out here, it does look like they've made some headway. What they're really going to be counting on is these winds not picking back up again. Because as you can see, there still is some active fire.
HARRIS: Ok, Kara Finnstrom for us in Malibu. You know, Kara, appreciate it, thank you. The fire erupted as Malibu slept, which made for a rather rude awakening, as you can imagine, with that part of the story, CNN's Chris Lawrence. Chris, good to see you. We know the fires move really quickly. They certainly can. When did people close to those areas get the word that it was time to grab whatever they could and get the heck out of the way?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First they smelled it. That's what they told us. They're lying in bed and all of a sudden they smelled smoke. They look outside and they can see somewhat like this, a thick black cloud blowing towards their home. Then they see the flames and then it's just run out as quickly as you can. One of the things that was working for people this time around is that the memory of those last fires is still so fresh in everyone's mind. Just about six weeks ago. The thing that may have been working against them, it's a holiday weekend. People are preoccupied with other things. This may have caught them somewhat by surprise, even though the winds were predicted.
We spoke with one couple who learned something from that last fire. He said he really got caught off guard when they had to evacuate last time. Found out they just couldn't get stuff into their car very quickly or easily. So, the father went out, he bought a trailer and they did a complete list of everything that they wanted to take. So when they had to evacuate this morning on very short notice, they had the trailer there, they had their list, they quickly got things together and got out. Another thing that you will see in some of these neighborhoods, as you see some of these helicopters flying by, they are using a lot of the water from the ocean, they're also using a lot of water from swimming pools. I spoke with one family, who a few years ago, after going through three or four of these kinds of fires, had a pool built in their backyard, not so much for the entertainment value of it, but simply to have a reservoir of water near their home. A lot of these neighborhoods have signs out instructing firefighters which homes have the swimming pools. And throughout the morning, we did see low-flying helicopters dipping into the neighborhoods, taking the water from those swimming pools and dumping it on the fire. Tony?
HARRIS: What a scene. Take a look at -- Chris you can't see these. We're getting some really cool live pictures, Eddie are those live pictures? Ok, live pictures right now of a helicopter just dipping that bucket into the pacific and just loading up for another run over the fire. Chris Lawrence for us in Malibu. You know, they want to get the official word now on the fire's status. Joining us now on the phone is Cal Fire's deputy director of communications Mike Jarvis. Mike, are you there?
MIKE JARVIS: I'm here.
HARRIS: Mike, if you could, give us -- wrap this up. Where are we right now in the fire department's efforts to contain this, to put a ring around it and then to put it out?
JARVIS: Well, we had a conference call in the last hour with Chief Freeman from L.A. County, and they are doing a hell of a job down there. He indicates they're getting a stronger perimeter. They have something like 350 engines down there. The reduced winds this afternoon have helped a lot. They've kind of slowed down, but they're probably going to pick up. I mean that's the tendency of Santa Anas. But he indicated they're getting a good effect from the DC-10s Cal Fire, we've deployed down there. I think it's done four drops, going to be dropping until it gets dark. They are going to get everything they need down there, and they have been all day. But I did hear from him that they have 50 to 60-foot flame lengths in some locations, that's what some of the firefighters were --
HARRIS: Mike, I have to tell you, as you're talking and describing this scene, we're seeing amazing pictures to go exactly with the words as you describe this scene. We're seeing huge flames. And continue to talk to us if you would about the containment effort here. Because it seems to me, first of all, you have to get a perimeter on this. What are you doing? Are you setting some backfires? Are you trying to build a containment line, some fire breaks in there?
JARVIS: Well I think at this point all they're trying to do is trying to get a fix on location. What they're going to do is they start with trying to get containment lines. They're just trying to do anything they can at this point to try and figure out what is the perimeter of it and they buildup stronger points around the edge of it and then they work their way in. There's containment and then there's control. So, I think they're just looking right now at making sure that isn't jumping anywhere. While the winds have been down, but from all indications, they've been getting good help from that DC-10 because it can drop seven-tenths of a mile of retardant, about 50 feet wide. And people also have to realize too that it's retardant, that it is what it's name says it is, it slows it down, it doesn't put it out. But it gives the ground crews a chance down there. We've been sending resources from the state there all week. In fact, most of the firefighters down there that are not from that area, they're from local government, OES or Cal Fire, they've been eating turkey down there and camped out waiting. We've been sending inmate crews, bulldozers, you name it.
HARRIS: Mike, let's put a really fine point on that. This isn't a situation where all of the resources that were brought in about six weeks ago to battle those fires, sort of just went away. You guys have been paying very close attention to the weather forecast and the winds in that area because you know it's a volatile time of year. And you've kept some resources close at hand, haven't you?
JARVIS: Well, some of them went back and recharged and switched out and all that. But we do this year around, essentially. Southern California essentially now has a year-round fire season. What we do, as you get cooler temperatures and more moisture in northern California, we'll shift whatever we have up north down south based upon the conditions. When you get a red flag warning or red flag watch, which is what's been going on lately, we start shifting resources down there. We have already had a fire this morning in San Diego that some people probably don't know about that was caught. That was at 50 acres. I think we have one firefighter injured down there. But that fire was right in the same area that these fires were a couple weeks ago. So we're just -- you know, we're keeping an eye on everything.
HARRIS: Mike, here's what's crazy about this. You're watching the forecast, you get the red flag warnings. You know the potential of what's coming here. Yet, we're still talking about 2200 acres burning right now. That speaks to how quickly these fires can start and how quickly they can spread, but also how dry it is in that area.
JARVIS: Not only that. It's not only the dryness, it's just that there's a lot of fuel. I was down there in Malibu on this last fire the day it happened. You could look up in the hills and there's just a lot of fuel up there, it's that dry. Someone was telling us earlier this fall that they were getting vegetation fuel levels, but the vegetation, the moisture levels was at like seven or eight percent in some places. I think kiln dried lumber is something like 12 percent. So, you know, you're looking at some real potential for problems down there. We do have adequate resources. We put plenty of people and equipment down there. We're helping out everybody we can at this point.
HARRIS: Mike, how many firefighters injured so far?
JARVIS: Two that I know of that were serious enough to go to a hospital and be treated and released.
HARRIS: Ok.
JARVIS: In fact, actually I think one is still in. But that's with some burns. We had another down in San Diego that I think, I'm not sure on the status on him either.
HARRIS: And if I could, let me just sort of run through some of these numbers here and maybe you can give us a quick update as we look at more of these amazing pictures. The last set of numbers we had, 1700 firefighters working this right now. Is that about right, more or less?
JARVIS: Yes, that's the numbers. I have the same numbers you have.
HARRIS: Ok, 23 aircraft involved?
JARVIS: That sounds exactly like what I heard, yeah.
HARRIS: And your wind speeds, oh, about 20 miles per hour or so?
JARVIS: Yeah, they've varied. In fact, they've dropped down quite a bit for a while, but then I just heard they're picking back up. Even just a little window there to try to get some better containment on the edge that will help.
HARRIS: How about 10,000 people evacuated or have left their homes voluntarily, is that about right?
JARVIS: We don't handle that. By the way, they should get a pat on the back, law enforcement does an amazing job in California. You saw that in San Diego with those evacuations. It was astonishing. We work very closely with them to make sure that they do the leg work on that and make sure they handle that.
HARRIS: That's great. It sounds like you have a lot of work ahead. I'm going to let you get to it. Boy you've been very generous with your time. Mike Jarvis, appreciate it.
JARVIS: Thank you.
HARRIS: Let's get a check of the conditions there. Let's go and Jacqui, you've got some amazing maps. I wish I had time to run over there and we could do this together. But you've got some amazing maps to show us exactly the area that's being impacted right now. Look at the flames. Look at this. I mean, containment is a long ways off here.
JARVIS: It certainly is. In fact, last check, continuing to monitor things on the internet throughout the afternoon and still zero percent contained. Certainly not something you want to see there. The winds did pick up a little bit, too, as that gentleman just mentioned there. In the last hour we've gone up, seeing gusts now 27 miles per hour. So the winds can be kind of erratic, and you don't want to be fooled when they start to die down. This is the area that we've been talking about here, and this is Kanan Dune Road right there and this is Malibu Canyon Road. It's really that whole area in between. I put these red dots on here to kind of highlight where some of worst conditions have been and where most of the homes have been burning. Way down at the bottom of your screen, you can see that little yellow line down there, the red one that I just drew, that's the pacific coast highway. So everything for the most part has been the north up to there. Ok, let's go ahead and zoom in and show you the first area I've been talking about. These homes were burned along sycamore meadows. This is near the pacific coast highway. So that one is the closest area towards the ocean. We'll take you a little further on up to the north and that is where homes have been burning in the el mido area, this is an area of Malibu. And then most of the homes have burned very near there, just on up towards the north. Again, there have been about 35 homes that have burned, this is between Newell Road and Idlewild Way. Also the Engle side and the Malibu bull area. And look at the population in here. Look at those big homes too. We've also heard some reports from our affiliates, by the way, too, that, you know the red hot chili peppers Tony?
HARRIS: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
JERAS: I heard flea's home.
HARRIS: He is the base player.
JERAS: Yeah. I heard his home could possibly be in jeopardy as well. So some big celebrities being affected by this one once again. All right, here's the trends of the winds. We peaked out 7:30 this morning with 59 mile-per-hour winds and we've been going down ever since. So that's some good news. 15 miles per hour there at 12:30. Just in the last hour, the winds started to move back up again. We could still see gusts 30 to 50 miles per hour in the next couple of hours. We've got maybe about 45 minutes to go, and that's when the advisory is supposed to expire, Tony, for the winds. Hopefully it will do that. I want to show you one more map if I can get to it. Maybe not. We've got a storm system that's been bringing all kinds of snow in parts of New Mexico and Texas. Here it is. As that low pulls out, we'll start to see those winds dying. That's why this is not going to be a huge event like last go-around where it lasted for like a week. This is the big event today. Tomorrow because the humidity is low, but the winds are going to be dropping down to maybe 10 miles per hour, so that's huge. So it will be really fast and dirty really today. If we can get a handle on it, once those winds calm down by 3:00, it will be so much better.
HARRIS: You know what, Jacqui, stay with me. I'm going to do a little directing and producing on the fly here. You know how they love that back in the control room.
JERAS: I know. HARRIS: 15 minutes or so into our coverage, and we haven't taken a break yet. And we're going to do a couple of other stories. But let's do this, let's move those stories to the second block of the show. Jacqui, the two of us, let's just look at some of these pictures. Just amazing pictures coming in from Malibu from all of our affiliates out there. When we've seen enough, we'll go to break and come back and do the rest of the show. But this is the scene right now. These pictures, KTLA, KABC, all of our affiliates out there doing a terrific job of showing us these aerials, this tremendous view. I was telling you earlier, Jacqui, I really need your help in sort of acclimating myself to where these fires actually are burning right now. Because my frame of reference has always been Pepperdine. I was out there about 10 years ago for a set of really bad fires in Malibu at that time. We were sort of stationed there on the hill there at Pepperdine, and we could watch as the fire and the embers were sort of jumping the PCH. But take a look at this. I mean it's really, really dramatic stuff when the fires start to work through the canyons and up on the hills and they start to threaten the PCH and all of the enclaves on the other side of the PCH where those fabulous homes are and a lot of the movie stars and famous people that you were just mentioning, Flea being one of them, is a member of the Red Hot Chillie Peppers. They have these beautiful homes there. Take a look at these pictures. You know, the firefighters are still working, Jacqui, to get a perimeter on this.
JERAS: Yeah it's tough to do. Those winds, those backfires, we were talking about that a little bit earlier today, that the winds will blow the embers even as much as a mile or so out ahead of the main line and then all of a sudden those winds will help back fire, just take off, and you've got a whole new one that you're going to have to deal with. So that's been one of the issues with these strong winds to go along with it as well. You were also asking me about the Pepperdine area.
HARRIS: Yeah.
JERAS: Well, that is east of where most of these fires have been burning today. They have not been evacuated. In fact, some of our i- Reporters have been sending us pictures of there. They can kind of see them, just over the hills. But right now they're doing ok a Pepperdine.
HARRIS: And I tell you the other thing, one of the most dramatic shots, you've had some great i-Reports. Look at this. I mean, look at this. Just dramatic pictures from our i-Reporters. Again, if you get an opportunity -- and we always remind you, stay out of harm's way -- but if you get an opportunity to take some shots, some pictures, some video of the fires out there in Malibu, and the efforts of the firefighters, boy if you could capture some of that for us, that would be terrific and just send us those pictures, that video to us here at CNN and we'll turn it around and get it on the air for you as quickly as possible. Here again, live pictures from our affiliate KABC in Los Angeles. We're going to take a quick break and come back with the latest information on the Malibu wildfire, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: Once again, we want to give you the latest pictures. Look at this. Ok, that quad box here working for us, really working for us, thanks guys. As we bring you the latest live pictures and continue to cover the latest round of wildfires in southern California, the hills over Malibu targeted again here. So far, 2200 acres involved, 34 homes have been destroyed, one other structure destroyed as well. More than 1700 firefighters at last check involved in fighting the blaze, 23 aircraft. That crazy shot, just a really dramatic shot of that DC-10 dropping the fire retardant over an area of flames and also dropping massive amounts of water onto the fires from the pacific ocean, also from the buckets being dropped into the pools in people's backyards. Just gathering the water to fight these flames. The weather on the side of the firefighters right now. The winds are down considerably in some areas, about 20 miles per hour. Firefighters are still trying to set up a perimeter around all the fires and also set up some containment lines, setting some backfires and everything they can do to get this under some kind of control. But that's going to take some time.
In other news now, new developments today in the Natalee Holloway case. A third suspect is in jail in Aruba at this hour. 20-year-old Joran van der Sloot arrived there from the Netherlands last night. He and two other suspects have been rearrested in connection with Holloway's 2005 disappearance. Susan Candiotti has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joran van der Sloot on the last leg of his court-ordered trip from the Netherlands, back home to Aruba. Changing planes in Kurastal(ph), he appeared relaxed in police custody, despite the prospect of a possible manslaughter trial in the death of Natalee Holloway. Dressed in casual clothes and carrying a personal bag, at various times he is seen yawning and laughing as he sits in a gate area with two officers. Once his plane landed in Aruba, Van der Sloot believed to be in the middle car, was rushed out of the airport and back to jail. Investigators say he's forbidden from seeing his family, only his attorneys for now. On Monday he's scheduled to appear before a judge in a closed-door jail house hearing. Authorities will ask a judge to hold Van der Sloot at least another eight days on suspicion of manslaughter in the death of Natalee Holloway.
HANS MOS, CHIEF PROSECUTOR: I think we have enough evidence to prove the girl is not alive anymore.
CANDIOTTI: Even without a body?
MOS: Even without a body.
CANDIOTTI: Holloway was last seen leaving a bar with Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers more than two years ago. In interviews Van der Sloot denied accusations of rape and murder and said he regretted leaving Holloway alone on a beach.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: At that moment in time, to me it wasn't the wrong thing, but it's not something a real man would do. It's not normal. It's not right at all.
MOS: He always denied that he was involved in this case, he has his own truth and we think our truth and the real truth is other than his truth.
CANDIOTTI: Earlier Friday a judge oversaw separate jailhouse appearances for two other suspects, Deepak and Chatish(Ph) Kalpoe, who have also denied harming Holloway. The judge ruled there's enough new so-called incriminating evidence to detain the brothers eight more days for more interrogation. Defense attorneys weren't happy.
(INAUDIBLE)
CANDIOTTI: A chief prosecutor won't reveal what the new evidence is. CNN has learned a new team of Dutch and Aruban investigators have been recreating cell phone transmissions and text messages among the suspects after Holloway disappeared. Discrepancies allegedly were found.
MOS: We used state-of-the-art technology in reviewing this case. (INAUDIBLE) so that's what happened. We used state-of-the-art stuff from Netherlands and brought in here to analyze the whole investigation again.
CANDIOTTI: Authorities say some information initially was improperly analyzed or overlooked. A chief prosecutor says by year's end, he hopes to decide whether to try the three young men for manslaughter. If found guilty, they face 15 years in prison.
(On camera): Whatever happen to Natalee Holloway, the chief prosecutor says he believes her death was not intentional. Police have a theory about exactly what occurred, but they're not sharing it. Susan Candiotti, CNN, Aranjastad, Aruba.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Once again, let's go to these live pictures in Malibu. Boy, stick with us here in the NEWSROOM. As soon as we get back, we will give you the very latest on the fires in the Malibu hills. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Ok, here's the latest on the fires in the hills above Malibu. Just a short time ago CNN's Kara Finnstrom told us winds are picking up again, and that's not a good thing, not at all. Wind speeds had dropped, and I guess the early morning hours when the fires erupted and quickly spread, at last word some 35 homes has been destroyed, make that 34 homes and one other structure. More than 10,000 people evacuated. Firefighters are working from the ground and from the air. They're taking advantage of a surge of manpower, about 1700 firefighters in place now and put in place really when the dry desert winds were predicted. Early this afternoon teams attacked a fire in San Diego County and snuffed it out pretty quickly. On the phone with us now is Brian Maienschein, he is a San Diego city councilman. Brian, good to talk to you, thanks for your time. Boy, you've got an unbelievable perspective to share with us. Wait a minute, you have been involved in two of the biggest fires in your district over the last several years. There was the Cedar Fire in 2003, was it?
BRIAN MAIENSCHEIN: Yeah, that's right, Tony.
HARRIS: And then this last batch of fires, I guess it was, what, almost six weeks ago now. Which of those fires was in your district? There's the Witch Fire, there's the Buckwheat, which fire was in your district?
MAIENSCHEIN: The witch fire was actually in my district.
HARRIS: Ok, so first of all, bring us up to speed on how your district is recovering right now.
MAIENSCHEIN: We're recovering really well. Clearly, it's a huge, huge disaster but at the same time, the people have really rallied and we're already starting to rebuild. It's quite remarkable.
HARRIS: How many homes did you lose in your district?
MAIENSCHEIN: About 360 homes totally lost and then with the partial destruction, destruction to the property and all that, it's well above 500, so it was a very significant fire. Looking at the pictures you are showing from Malibu, I mean, it certainly is bringing back bad memories, no question about it.
HARRIS: Absolutely. I know a moment ago you said that the folks are doing the best they can and are recovering well, but my goodness, 360 that is a lot of loss, a lot of devastation. The psyche of the people in your district today.
MAIENSCHEIN: Well, they really have rallied. I mean, they go through kind of the stages, almost like grieving. And you go through those stages and certainly, like anything else, there's good days and bad days. They really are committed to getting their homes rebuilt.
At the same time, the larger city itself, the city of San Diego has really rallied to support. You should see, Tony, the donations that have come in. People really are -- when they see something like this happening to their neighbors, they really come to their aid. So that part of it has been very positive.
TONY HARRIS, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: A, B, C, D, or some other grade, how would you grade FEMA's response?
MAIENSCHEIN: I think they've been very good this time. I've been pleased, especially compared to the Cedar Fire that we had a couple years ago, there's been big improvements.
HARRIS: Brian, you have to tell me what it's like now. I don't know if you had a chance to hear now. We were talking with Mike Jarvis from Cal Fire and he was telling us something that struck me as amazing that you're living now -- when you live in California, you are living in year-round fire season. I mean, that is incredible to conceive of.
MAIENSCHEIN: Absolutely. Now every time there are Santa Ana winds, it brings up kind of that fear in the pit of my stomach that we're going to have another huge disaster. And I think that's right. It really is at the point where, in southern California, you really are in year-round fire danger.
HARRIS: You have to talk to us about leadership. I mean, come on. You have to exercise real leadership at this time. It's been an opportunity for you to step up. What has this period been like for you personally as a leader in that community?
MAIENSCHEIN: It's been really a challenge. It's something that, unfortunately, I have experience with because of the Cedar Fire. But at the same time, it's something that both professionally and personally, it's something that's really touched me and really changed me. You actually see what the purpose of government is. It really is to help people and to do things. A lot of times when you have a job like mine where you're voting on things and doing things that are kind of removed from people's day-to-day lives and then you get an opportunity to do something like this, it really reminds me of, you know, why I did this job in the first place.
HARRIS: Well, Brian, continue the good work. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us.
MAIENSCHEIN: Absolutely. Any time.
HARRIS: Brian Meinschein is a San Diego councilman.
Look at these live pictures. That is probably an aircraft about to drop all of the saffron-colored retardant on the area right now. Boy, the work continues. The winds may be dying down, but the wildfire is, by no means, out.
Plus, we are talking politics with the CNN YouTube Republican debate, on tap this week. Bill Schneider is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK, once again, these live pictures coming to us from our affiliate in Los Angeles, KTLA.
Look at all the smoke. We are continuing to bring you the live coverage of the Malibu wildfire. 2,200 acres involved right now. A lot of smoke involved, as you can see right there. 1,700 firefighters are still fighting the blazes right now. 23 aircraft dropping massive amounts of water and fire retardant. They're dipping buckets into the oceans and, in some cases, into the pools in the backyards of homes, scooping up water and just dropping the water on the -- they're still trying to figure out a perimeter on this fire. That hasn't been determined yet. They can start to set up the containment lines and set back fires and fire breaks as well. Firefighters are really hard at work at setting up a perimeter on this fire.
Winds are helping a bit, but as you can see, the flames are still burning pretty much out of control right now. Zero containment at this hour. We'll bring you the latest information as we get it right here in the "NEWSROOM."
Well, the Democrats have done it. Now it's the Republicans' turn to face you. The CNN-YouTube presidential debate is just four days away. Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, is with us from St. Petersburg with our "Election Express."
Bill, good to see you.
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you, Tony. You know, Florida is a crucial state in the presidential election. Remember in 2000, all the hanging chads? In 2008, the important state may be California and it could happen long before the November election day. Remember hearing about a ballot measure that would change the way California casts its electoral votes? It was supposed to be dead. But guess what? It's come back to life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): A national political battle is being fought back, but voters don't seem to know or care much about it. National Republican money is coming into California to pay for gathering petition signatures to qualify a ballot measure that would divide California's electoral votes.
TONY QUINN, CALIFORNIA POLITICAL ANALYST: If this passed, rather than 55 electoral votes going to the Democratic candidate, you would probably have about 35 going to the Democrat and 20 going to the Republican candidate. So that could have a major impact on how we elect the president in 2008.
SCHNEIDER: You bet it would. 20 electoral votes is as many as the whole state of Ohio.
If the measure qualifies for the ballot -- the deadline is next week -- Republicans will argue that it's fairer. Why should the 44 percent of Californians who voted for George W. Bush in 2004 not get a single vote?
It would also bring the presidential campaign to California. Right now the state deals like an ATM machine. Candidates raise money in California and spend it somewhere else.
Democrats will argue it's unfair to split up California's electoral votes unless other big states do the same.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democrats will say it's a power grab.
SCHNEIDER: That's one thing Democrats have going for them, voter skepticism.
QUINN: It's very hard to see that there's any major, major issue here that the voters care about. Generally, they have refused to involve themselves when the fight is between the two parties. They say, gee, that's not my fight.
SCHNEIDER: When California voters don't understand or care much about a ballot measure, they usually vote no. They figure somebody's up to something.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: A lot of the money behind the California ballot measure is coming from Republicans with ties to Rudy Giuliani. And a lot of the efforts to stop it is coming from the Hillary Clinton forces. So we've got an early showdown between the two front-runners, and a lot of California voters just don't know anything about it -- Tony?
HARRIS: OK, Bill, let's talk about Florida again. And if you would, let me see if I can get a couple quick questions in. What are the polls saying to us there in Florida?
SCHNEIDER: Rudy Giuliani is the firm runner for the Republican nomination. Could be a crucial state for him because he's not running ahead in either Iowa or New Hampshire. South Carolina he's close to the top. Michigan, he's a little bit ahead, but that could be a Mitt Romney state.
If he wants to make a breakthrough as the national front-runner, he's going to rely on Florida. Hillary Clinton is ahead in Florida as well on the Democratic side. The Democrats have agreed not to campaign in Florida because Florida broke the rules and is holding an early primary. If there's no campaign here, Hillary Clinton may do very well.
HARRIS: Is there one issue that can trip up Republicans there in Florida. Boy, let me get ahead of you here, it has to be immigration.
SCHNEIDER: It is immigration. The big Republican issue is illegal immigration. The conservative base is very angry about it. The Republican candidates are competing about who can be toughest on illegal immigrants.
Florida is a state with a large, rapidly increasing minority population, particularly Latino voters. They tend to be sympathetic to immigrants, if not necessarily illegal immigrants. And they're going to be very watchful for comments from Republicans this week that may sound insensitive to minorities. So Republicans have to be very careful.
HARRIS: Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, for us. Bill, thank you, sir.
There is still time for you to help us make history here. Go to CNN.com-YouTube debates and post your question for the candidates. The deadline for submissions is midnight Sunday night. Then watch the debate Wednesday, November 28th. Your voice will be heard only on CNN, your home for politics.
Once again, these live pictures from southern -- oh, this is the shot we wanted to show you of this DC-10. Is that a DC-10? Flying with, we believe, that saffron-colored fire retardant. Again, the fire retardant doesn't put the fire out. It's a retardant. The name says exactly what it does here. It helps to set up a line, sort of a perimeter, a firebreak is you will. We're going to watch this because we believe it's about to dump all that retardant here shortly.
As we watch this, again, the firefighting effort is intense right now in the Malibu Hills, as you can imagine. 1,700 firefighters in all working. Five firefighters injured so far. One firefighter with second degree burns, is our understanding.
The weather helping a bit right now. But it's on and off. Sometimes the winds pick up and there are concerns about the embers being blown about. But we will continue to watch these pictures and bring you the very latest.
But first, let's squeeze in a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Again, these live pictures. Oh, this is taped from a short time ago. That's right, because I wanted everybody to see this. We kept rolling so we could bring you this. There it is, that saffron-colored powder. It's the fire retardant being dropped over one of the fire areas right now. Just trying to get ahead of it right now.
And these are the live pictures right now of the fire still burning in Malibu. Man, 2,200 acres right now. Homes worth millions burned to the ground. Strong Santa Ana winds and a lot of brush fueling the fire right now.
At least one other structure -- 34 homes and one other structure absolutely flat-out destroyed. 10,000 people are under a mandatory evacuation order right now. Five firefighters, we understand, injured, one with second-degree burns who is still in the hospital. The cause of the fire still very much under investigation.
So imagine waking up to this sight, flames just over the horizon. I-reporter Keegan Gibbs did. This was outside his bedroom at 6:00 a.m. He is under a mandatory evacuation order. But he says he is confident that the fire isn't actually headed his way, so he is actually staying put. Maybe if this view gets a little more menacing -- look at this -- Gibbs might change his mind. Officials are urging anyone who lives in the mandatory evacuation zone top get out now.
And still to come in the "NEWSROOM," an unusual alimony fight. A New Jersey man trying to keep from of paying his wife after she gets out of prison for killing their son.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: So here's the story we told you about a couple moments ago. It may be the outrage story of the day. A New Jersey man wants to stop making alimony payments to his ex-wife. He's got a pretty good reason too. She was convicted of beating his son, who eventually died from his injuries. It is a family tragedy that's raising all kinds of new legal questions.
CNN's Jim Acosta has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Chris Calby (ph) and his two sons in better times, before his oldest child, Matthew, died after he was beaten by his mother. That mother, Linda Calby (ph), is now in prison. She pleaded guilty to assaulting Matthew.
BRIAN SOCOWATS (ph), BROTHER OF CHRIS: It ripped his soul out.
ACOSTA: But Chris' brother, Brian Socowats (ph), says this family tragedy gets worse. That's because his brother may still have to pay his ex-wife $4,000 a month in alimony for her living expenses. Linda Calby (ph) told the court she wants the payments to continue after she's released from prison, where she's unavailable for comment.
SOCOWATS (ph): I don't know how anybody, judge, a lawyer, a legislator, the governor, can look my brother in the face and tell him, "Get out your pen and keep writing alimony checks."
ACOSTA (on camera): A New Jersey appellate court recently ruled that technically, there's nothing stopping Linda Calby (ph) from having her alimony reinstated once her sentence is complete. But the court also seemed to call on state leaders to change the law, stating, "nothing in this opinion prevents the legislature from amending the alimony statute to specify that a former spouse's criminal act in taking the life of one of the parties' children disqualifies the ex spouse from receiving alimony."
RICHARD HERMAN, LAW PROFESSOR: The court didn't have enough guts to stand up and take a position here.
ACOSTA: Law professor, Richard Herman, argues the court did have the leeway to stop the payments, but chose not to because, he says, the family law system is tilted too heavily against men.
HERMAN: It just shows you how skewed the system is in family court in favor of the spouse, the female. It really is.
ACOSTA: Brian Socowats (ph) wonders if there's a double standard.
(on camera): Would this even be an issue if this were a man who had done something like this?
SOCOWATS: I can't imagine that it would.
There's a sympathy for women in divorce court.
Maybe he didn't get the right legal advice at the time, but in his own mind, he said, there's no way that I'm required to continue paying alimony.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Chris Calby (ph), his brother says, would rather spend that money raising the only son he has left.
Jim Acosta, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Some story, huh?
OK, it's deja vu of the worst kind in California. The very latest on Malibu, California, and those fires, as the firefighters work to set a perimeter around those fires.
Let's take a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: So we have a programming note for you. Our special report "Trouble in Toyland" airs tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. eastern time. We will hear from an industry expert about toxic and recalled toys and what you should do to protect yourself and your family. We will also talk with a pediatrician.
Plus, it may not be enough just to test toys for lead. One family found out the hard way the benefits of having their children tested. Tune in for "Trouble in Toyland" tomorrow, 4:00 p.m. eastern time.
Let's check in with Jacqui Jeras in the Severe Weather Center for a look at conditions there in southern California, Malibu.
Jacqui?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, Tony, the winds have picked up again in the last half hour and are gusting up to 30 miles per hour. So this is the most significant wind that we've seen in the last few hours. We don't want to see these winds go up.
But still, nothing compared to what it was early this morning in its peak with winds around 60 miles per hour. We do anticipate these advisories to be expiring as we head throughout the rest of the afternoon as our low-pressure system pulls away, the same one that's dumping all that snow into parts of Texas and New Mexico -- Tony?
HARRIS: Jacqui, thanks.
You know, the fire erupted as Malibu slept, which made for a rude awakening. With that part of thee story, CNN's Chris Lawrence.
Chris, good to see you again. And we know these fires can move really quickly. When did people close to the fire get the word that it was time to go?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the fire broke out at 3:30 in the morning, so a lot of people were sound asleep when they started to first smell smoke. That was the first indication. When they looked outside, a lot of them saw flames racing down the canyon near their block. We spoke to several people who hurriedly grabbed their dogs, started throwing things in their car. We spoke to one man who has lived through five of these fires with his wife. He learned a lot from that last fire in Malibu about six weeks ago when he wasn't able to evacuate as quickly as he would have liked. In between that time and now, he went out, bought a trailer. He and his wife did a complete list of everything they wanted to grab and where it was. So this time around he was prepared to get out quickly with the things they felt they couldn't afford to lose.
From what we're hearing from some of the officials, the winds have picked up. Some of them have slightly shifted. Before they were blowing northwest, out towards the ocean, some of those winds have now started, in part, to move back on areas that have been previously burned. That could be a good thing, depending on where they go.
Again, we talked about those vicious Malibu fires that burned here about six weeks ago. These are all burning in different areas. This is a different path that this fire is taking but because president Bush signed that disaster declaration towards the end of October, it's still within that incident period, which means the folks here -- you know, you've got 35 homes burned. A lot of the people will be covered under that previous disaster declaration and qualify for some of that federal help -- Tony?
HARRIS: And, Chris, we heard from one councilman in San Diego that FEMA, at least this time around, gets high marks for their response. You were witness to an incredible scene of these aircraft, these helicopters actually dropping bucks into private swimming pools to grab water for the fire lines.
LAWRENCE: Yeah, we actually spoke to one family who, a few years ago -- you know, they've lived here for 32 years, they've seen more than their fair share of fires. So a few years ago they built a pool in their backyard, not so much because they're big swimmers, but because they wanted to have that reservoir of water in their backyard.
And if you go back into some of these neighborhoods in these canyons, there are signs that point out to firefighters which homes have the swimming pools to make it easier on them to help out.
HARRIS: Amazing. All right, CNN's Chris Lawrence for us in Malibu.
Chris, appreciate it. Thank you.
From CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Tony Harris. "Lou Dobbs This Week" starts right now.
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