Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Bush White House Backing Away From Efforts to Crack Down on Employers of Illegal Aliens
Aired November 26, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Tonight another cave in by the Bush administration, the Bush White House surrendering to socio-ethnocentric special interest groups backing away from its early efforts to crack down on the illegal employers of illegal aliens. We'll have complete coverage of what the Department of Homeland Security is doing to earn its department name.
Also tonight rising outrage over Maryland's law giving illegal aliens the same driving privileges as U.S. citizens and legal residents of that state. We'll have the special report and two of the world's leading authorities on the Middle East join me tonight to discuss the Bush administration's first effort in years to end the Palestinian conflict. We'll discuss as well as what the apparent success of the American surge strategy in Iraq means, GOP politically and to partisan presidential candidates; all of that, all the day's news and much more, straight ahead, here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, November 26. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. President Bush today launched an ambitious new effort to end decades of conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. President Bush held separate talks at the White House today with the Israeli prime minister and the Palestinian president.
A Middle East peace conference will begin in Annapolis, Maryland tomorrow. Meanwhile, the president today signed a new agreement that could keep tens of thousands of our troops in Iraq indefinitely. We'll have extensive coverage and we begin tonight with a report by Ed Henry from the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, no major breakthroughs today, but there has been a big shift. President Bush who started out deeply skeptical of the Mideast peace process has now embraced it and he's putting his weight behind it in a big way.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): After seven years of shunning personal involvement in Mideast peace, President Bush is now a convert, hosting Israeli and Palestinian officials in separate meetings on the eve of Tuesday's conference in Annapolis, Maryland. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm looking forward to continuing our serious dialogue with you and president of the Palestinian Authority to see whether or not peace is possible. I'm optimistic. I know you're optimistic.
HENRY: Indeed, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was bullish about prospects for peace, thanks to the participation of officials from Saudi Arabia and Syria, among dozens of nations attending Tuesday's talks.
EHUD OLMERT, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: This is fine. It's different because we're going have a lot of participants in what I hope will launch a serious process of negotiations between us and the Palestinians.
HENRY: A sentiment shared by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.
PRES. MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY (through translator): We have a great deal of hope that this conference will produce a permanent status negotiations, expanded negotiations over all permanent status issues.
HENRY: Mr. Bush's direct participation is a dramatic change for a president who came to office believing former President Clinton set the process back by pushing too hard for peace at Camp David near the end of his presidency. In February 2002, then White House spokesman Ari Fleischer charged Clinton tried to shoot the moon and came up with nothing.
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: President Bush is intent to learn the lessons of all previous presidents and focus on what he thinks can be successful, which is an incremental approach.
HENRY: Reaching the end of his own presidency, Mr. Bush sees a chance to shape his legacy, so he's taking a more active role.
BUSH: The United States cannot impose our vision, but we can help facilitate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Now White House officials point out that Mr. Bush was the first U.S. president to ever call publicly for a Palestinian state that he could not work with Yasser Arafat, cut now he sees an opportunity. Critics though wonder about the missed opportunities for Mr. Bush not getting more involved in this process much, much sooner -- Lou.
DOBBS: And all of those questions of course are valid, but at the same time absolutely meaningless and irrelevant. This is an initiative that could have profound consequences and positive ones in the Middle East. Is there not a sense of optimism about -- within the White House itself about the prospects?
HENRY: Certainly some optimism, but they are also trying to temper that because as you know there have been many, many times before where there's been optimism only to see it fall through -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Ed Henry from the White House -- well, Ed, before we go, let me ask you this. We've learned that Vice President Cheney has an irregular heartbeat that the doctors have decided to carry out a heart procedure tonight. What can you tell us about the vice president's condition right now and his treatment?
HENRY: Well he's at George Washington University Hospital. As you mentioned, his doctors found today that he has an irregular heartbeat. They're treating it seriously of course because he has a history of heart trouble, but cardiologists that we've spoken to say that the procedure he's expected to have, which is essentially his heart being shocked, electric shock, is pretty routine for someone with this kind of heart trouble and history. And they say that it's an outpatient procedure. He's expected to be back at his residence tonight -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much; Ed Henry from the White House.
The Bush administration tonight also making plans to keep as many as 50,000 of our troops in Iraq indefinitely. Those troops likely to stay in Iraq even if the fighting were to stop. The administration's plans are a new challenge to Democrats in Congress who are trying to withdraw our troops from Iraq by December of next year.
Jamie McIntyre brings us up-to-date from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Baghdad's slow return to semi-normality with busy markets, bad traffic, and flickers of night light holds the promise of big U.S. troop cuts by next summer. But the Bush administration has no plans for a total pullout. That was clear during a secure video conference in which President Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki signed a nonbinding agreement paving the way for a deal on a long term U.S. military presence.
"It's not a treaty, says White House war adviser Lieutenant General Douglas Lute, but a set of principles from which to begin formal negotiations."
No one will say how many U.S. troops would stay behind, but two months ago Defense Secretary Robert Gates let slip what he was thinking.
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: In my head, we're looking at a force that is in terms of combat brigades a fourth or so of what we have now.
MCINTYRE: Cutting U.S. forces by one quarter would leave roughly 40 to 50,000 troops depending on how much support is required. The Pentagon says it would not have permanent bases and the mission of U.S. troops would be limited, hunt for foreign terrorists and train and equip Iraqi troops. That assumes things in Iraq will continue to get better. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have seen a remarkable turn around.
MCINTYRE: Colonel Don Farris commands the first surge brigade to be sent into the Iraqi capital. Since May attacks are down 75 percent in his part of Baghdad. But it's not all good news. Incident involving EFPs, those sophisticated armor piercing bombs suspected of coming from Iran are on the rise. An Iranian-backed Shia extremist showed no sign of honoring a fragile cease-fire.
COL. DON FARRIS, 82ND AIRBORNE DIVISION: We have not seen any slowing down or any indicators that these special groups are going to curtail their activities or quit receiving the support that's coming from outside the country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: In remarks this afternoon at Kansas State University, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he knows U.S. troops want to come home. But he says they also don't want their sacrifice to have been in vain. And they don't want their children to have to go back to Iraq in 10 years and while calling the progress of the recent months remarkable, Gates said quote, "We'll just have to pray that it continues" -- Lou.
DOBBS: There's almost a reluctant optimism, if you will, in the success that is clearly being enjoyed by the military in Iraq and frankly unheralded over the first month or so particularly in Baghdad. Why is that?
MCINTYRE: Well it is an extremely cautious optimism because so many things have looked optimistic in Iraq have turned out not to work out and there are still many things that have to be done, plus the fact that a lot of the success has come about in a way that the U.S. really didn't intend or didn't foresee it. Now they're trying to capitalize on that, so all seems very elusive at this point.
DOBBS: Well as long as the law of unintended consequences is working in one's favor, you know you're headed in the right direction and that couldn't be said very often over the course of the past year. Thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Later here two of the world's leading authorities on the Middle East join me to discuss Iraq and U.S. policy and of course the Middle East peace conference. Fouad Ajami, professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins University, and Professor Steven Cohen, national scholar at the Israel Policy Forum.
The Bush administration tonight is watching the latest developments in Pakistan after the return of one General Musharraf's principal opponents. The White House is concerned that instability in Pakistan could threaten the fight against radical Islamist terrorism. Former Prime Minister Sharif returned to Pakistan yesterday. He announced that he would run in January's election. Sharif overthrown by General Musharraf eight years ago; Sharif says he will not serve in any administration led by General Musharraf. President Bush blasted tonight blasted Russian President Putin's violent crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators. Russian riot police broke up anti-Putin protests in four Russian cities over this weekend. President Bush saying he is quote, "troubled by the use of force to break up what were peaceful protests." Russia holds parliamentary elections on the second of next month.
President Bush, we are told has just arrived at the State Department where he is to meet with President Abbas and Prime Minister Olmert. There obviously Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, let's listen in.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: We wouldn't be here tonight and we look very much forward tomorrow to signaling the international support that is there for the bilateral process that you have begun to try and end your conflict and come to a two-state solution. And so it's a delight to have tonight the president of the United States who first (INAUDIBLE) Palestinian state and who has been a tireless advocate for the two-state solution.
Mr. President, thank you for your commitment and thank you for joining us tonight.
(APPLAUSE)
BUSH: Madam Secretary, thank you for your hospitality. I was wondering where my place is. I appreciate very much your hosting this important dinner.
Prime Minister Olmert, welcome. President Abbas, Secretary General Ban, former Prime Minister Tony Blair and all those who have gathered here in the cause of peace. Welcome to the United States. We're glad you're here. We have come together this week because we share a common goal.
Two Democratic states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security. Achieving this goal requires difficult compromises. And the Israelis and Palestinians have elected leaders committed to making them. Achieving this goal requires neighbors committed to peace between Israel and a new Palestinian state. I'm encouraged by the presence of so many here.
Achieving this goal requires the commitment of the international community including the United States. Tonight I restate my personal commitment on behalf of the United States to all those in the Middle East who wish to live in freedom and peace. We stand with you at the Annapolis conference and beyond.
The extremists and terrorists want our efforts to fail. They're working actively to undermine every effort as we try to achieve peace and reconciliation. We offer a more hopeful vision of a Middle East growing in freedom and dignity and prosperity. We are here to renew our efforts to achieve this vision. And tonight I offer a toast to all of our honored guests and to the future of peace that we can build together. DOBBS: President Bush leading a toast and of course most interested in the toast and the sentiments expressed by the president, Prime Minister Olmert and President Abbas. They will be moving to Annapolis round that begins tomorrow seeking as the president said and Secretary Rice said a two-state solution.
The first time that a president ever enunciated or articulated the creation of a Palestinian state as a solution, obviously that president, George W. Bush, and some considerable hope of course that this meeting, the Annapolis meeting will lead to a two-state solution and peace in what has been 60 years of conflict, almost 60 years of conflict in the Middle East.
And to put that in some context we should point out that actually six men have won the Nobel Peace Prize over the course of those years despite the fact that the conflict continues, including of course President Jimmy Carter in 2002.
Still ahead here the federal government caving in to socio- ethnocentric special interest group activists -- advocacy groups caving in once again. Casey Wian will have our report -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the open borders lobby wins a battle with the Department of Homeland Security, but DHS insists the victory is only temporary. We'll have more coming up, Lou.
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Casey. Thank you very much.
Also tonight, seething anger at states that continue to give away drivers' licenses to illegal aliens; we'll have that report and the backlash that is building.
The Bush administration committed to faith-based economic policies even when those policies threaten the safety of American consumers, the jobs and the American middle class. The answer is absolutely.
We'll have that report and a great deal more up next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A defeat for enforcement of immigration law, a victory for open borders, pro-amnesty advocates and socio-ethnocentric special interest groups. Those groups of course forcing the Bush administration to cave in and suspend its weak efforts to enforce new rules prohibiting the employment of illegal aliens by illegal employers.
As Casey Wian now reports, the Department of Homeland Security well it says non-stop lawsuits are one of the reasons that it can't secure our nation's borders.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): The ACLU and the AFLCIO claim the Department of Homeland Security has abandoned its recent effort to crack down on illegal immigration by requiring employers to resolve discrepancies in their workers' Social Security numbers. In August, Advocates of Amnesty for Illegal Aliens sued the department over its no-match rule and won a temporary injunction from U.S. district court in San Francisco. Homeland Security vowed to fight for its right to use Social Security data to enforce immigration laws.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I will fight every lawsuit; I will deal with every procedural roadblock.
WIAN: But the day after Thanksgiving, DHS filed a motion asking the court to delay the case, saying it is in the process of making minor modifications to the no-match rule. The motion argues litigating other over a rule that is being changed would waste judicial resources.
In a statement Homeland Security says "Not surprisingly the ACLU gets the government's position exactly backward. We're not abandoning the no-match rule. We're modifying it to be consistent with the district court's order."
The DHS statement ends with this. "The American people demand that we enforce our nation's immigration laws, but interests such as the ACLU would like just the opposite. We will take on every challenge to make sure that we can continue vigorously to enforce the laws on the books."
Earlier this month, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said lawsuits such as the ACLU's are largely to blame for the nation's ineffective border security.
CHERTOFF: But I do want to make it clear that litigations such as the effort to block the no-match rule or the effort to block building fence is precisely the reason why it's been so difficult over the last 30 years to get control of the border.
WIAN: Opponents of the no-match rule say it's unfair because the Social Security database contains errors that could cost legal workers their jobs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: DHS says it is considering multiple options to get the no- match rule up and running including challenging the judge's order, but for now it plans to issue the revised rule by March of next year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Why in the world is it going to take that long to amend the order?
WIAN: DHS is not saying beyond the statement that we reported there in the piece. It is technical issues that -- and minor issues, according to the DHS that the judge has a problem with in this case, but they don't say why it is going to take four months to get it fixed -- over four months, basically giving employers of illegal aliens in this country a free pass for another four months -- Lou. DOBBS: You know and the illegal employers in this country have had a free pass for long enough. This administration continues to look like a bunch of just weak-kneed, frankly weak-kneed cowards when it comes to enforcing the law against corporate America. It's disgusting to me that they would put off this encounter. I will give the secretary of homeland security credit for one thing; he said it straight about the ACLU working against the will of the people. What's discomforting I would think to every American, Casey, is to hear the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security effectively whine about not being able to end those lawsuits and to defeat them in court. I mean is there any reaction in the department to that kind of thinking and expression?
WIAN: We haven't asked them about that, Lou, but I can tell you this. I don't know of any lawsuit that's prohibiting the border patrol from putting more border patrol agents on the border to secure it.
DOBBS: And I suspect there are no lawsuits that permit, as it does in the large sector of Texas, seven captures or apprehensions before thinking about deporting that individual or along the Arizona border, 15 apprehensions. It's remarkable.
WIAN: It really is. Though in fairness, every time the Department of Homeland Security tries to deport more illegal aliens, whether they be criminal illegal aliens or just illegal aliens, they encounter in the course of ICE raids, they are hit with lawsuits by open borders and ethno-centric activists.
DOBBS: Yes.
WIAN: So I think it is a real issue.
DOBBS: Well it may be an issue but it's an issue that this Department of Homeland Security, this administration, this government should have resolved a long time ago. And frankly it looks like to me an utter dereliction of duty. It looks to me like a lack of will and good faith and certainly a failure to enforce U.S. law. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Casey Wian.
Well, the ACLU's Lucas Guttentag will be joining me here later in the broadcast. We'll be talking about his reaction to the DHS statement.
And now tonight's poll question -- are you surprised the Bush administration and Department of Homeland Security caved to special interest groups and will negotiate federal immigration policy with open borders and amnesty groups? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We would love to hear your thoughts on the broadcast.
Missouri's governor today announcing he will push legislation that bars his state from issuing drivers' licenses to illegal aliens. Governor Matt Blunt said that state needs to take action quote, "As Washington sits idle, problems and frustrations with illegal immigration have only increased." This is of course an issue that broadcasts, this one reports on regularly, frequently, and for quite a long period of time now. After extensive coverage here, New York's Governor Eliot Spitzer did reverse course on his plan to give away drivers' licenses to illegal aliens, but not all states have received the message as Christine Romans now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since 2003, Maryland has been awarding drivers' licenses to illegal aliens. Essentially the state does not distinguish between legal and illegal immigrant for the purpose of official driving privileges. Critics like Pat McDonough, a Republican delegate to the State House, say "the licenses reward illegal immigration and threaten national security."
PAT MCDONOUGH (R), MARYLAND HOUSE OF DELEGATES: Maryland is the model state in the country for drivers' licenses for illegal aliens. We are much worse than the situation in New York.
ROMANS: He's referring to New York Governor Eliot Spitzer's plan to give drivers' licenses to illegal aliens, a plan that drew so much outrage he shelved it. Maryland is one of eight states that award driving privileges to people in the country illegally. A spokesman for Maryland's Motor Vehicle Administration said the policy is justified by a 2003 opinion from the state's attorney general.
Quote, "The MVA may not deny a license to an individual because he or she is unable to prove lawful presence in this country." The Motor Vehicle Administration spokesman said "no one knows how many licenses have been given to illegal aliens. But said anyone who could prove age, identity and Maryland residency was eligible even if illegally in the country." State Senator Paul Pinsky, a Democratic, supports the policy.
PAUL PINSKY (D), MARYLAND STATE SENATE: These people are here. You know we have to deal with them. They're part of the work force. They need to get to work. We'd like them to have insurance.
ROMANS: He says the failure of comprehensive immigration reform means states are left to deal with every day realities of millions of people here illegally. The office of Democratic Governor Martin O'Malley declined to comment on the driver's license policy for our story.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Had we been able to talk with the governor's office, we would have asked what the governor is doing to prevent voter registration fraud and whether those licenses were valid identification for purchasing a firearm -- Lou.
DOBBS: Now the attorney general, the governor comes in and just simply allows this to go on in Maryland.
ROMANS: The attorney general in 2003 said this can go on. The governor now is apparently continuing with this policy because they...
DOBBS: They're related in point of fact, aren't they?
ROMANS: Well the governor is the son-in-law I believe of the former attorney general. There is a new attorney general in office now.
DOBBS: Well how lucky for the state of Maryland because you know keep it all in the family. I mean they're learning actually from national politics the more I think about it. Let's see, if we see Hillary Clinton elected next year, that would be 20 -- possibly 28 years of Bushes and Clintons -- you know, it is really great to see these dynasties created even at the state level.
Doesn't it make you feel good about the country to know that the son-in-law -- disgusting. We'll be getting those answers and we'll continue to focus on the state of Maryland because it is really disgusting that they don't even know how many they have issued. They have no clue what they're doing in the state of Maryland and by the way, I love the fact that they said well you know other states do this as well.
ROMANS: Well, right. They said seven other states do this as well. I spoke with the Motor Vehicle Association and critics would say well 42 states don't do it and there's more and more push back and outrage from citizens who say wait a second. Just because there is failure by the federal government, the border doesn't need...
(CROSSTALK)
ROMANS: ... states need to do this.
DOBBS: It is pretty clear the governor's family runs things in Maryland, so I'm sure that the people there will be just thrilled to death with all that's going on. Thank you very much. We'll stay on that and see how it goes. You know little things like voter fraud and that sort of thing. That should be a concern of those folks in Maryland. Thank you. Christine Romans.
Time now for some of your thoughts; John in Utah wrote in to say, "Lou, I just registered as an Independent and my vote for president this year is going to be none of the above. That is unless you come to your senses and run for president. America wants and needs you to run for president." As I have said, I will be the candidate of last resort. That is final statement on that.
Kathy in Ohio, "Thanks for awakening people to the realities of this decade; because of what you do I too will be switching my political affiliation to Independent."
We'll have more of your thoughts here later. Each of you whose e-mail is read on the show receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit."
Coming up next President Bush says lasting peace between the Israelis and Palestinians will require difficult compromises. Two of the world's leading Middle East authorities join me here. We'll be talking about the president's plan.
And Japan inspecting a lot of its food imports to protect its consumers. Why doesn't the U.S. government do the same thing? We'll explore that next.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: If you think this country has a dangerous dependency on foreign exports, well get ready. Because over the next decade, we'll be buying three times as many imports from abroad as now. But the United States lags far behind other industrialized countries when it comes to inspecting those products that they bring in. U.S. government officials in fact are headed to communist China right now there to discuss ways to improve product safety. Kitty Pilgrim has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A cabinet level trip to China for Bush administration officials but the difference from last year is there has been an explosion of recalls of dangerous imports, discovery of deadly tooth paste and dog food, millions of toxic toys. Chinese goods are so flawed, the Chinese government even executed the former director of their food and drug administrations. White House officials come armed with what they say are new proposals, calling for increased penalties, new certifications and more U.S. oversight.
MIKE LEAVITT, HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: What we've created in our new report and the new strategy is not just a new strategy but a master plan as to how to build the system.
PILGRIM: But a former FDA attorney says it's the same old thing.
BENJAMIN ENGLAND, FORMER FDA ATTORNEY: They're not new ideas. I can assure you they're not new ideas. These ideas have been floating around inside the agency at least in the FDA since 2002.
PILGRIM: Meanwhile, Japan has already put many of those rules in place. With 60 percent of it food supply imported from many countries, Japan labs test samples from 10 percent of shipments entering the country. The U.S. imports 10 percent of our food and tests less than one percent. This lab tested more than 20,000 samples last year, more than twice what the U.S. tested. The largest number of violations, a third, came from China.
HIROSHI TAKIMOTO, YOKOHAMA QUARANTINE STATION: I think such work connects to security and safety in food for people in Japan.
PILGRIM: Country of origin labeling began in the European Union 2000 and is already an established practice for member countries. Canadian trade officials say their system is basically the same as the United States to minimize barriers to trade practices between the two countries.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well even after massive recalls of tainted goods from China, the United States still has faith-based trade policies and not vigorous inspection. Secretary Leavitt said last week these recalls are a perfect indication that we have a system in place that is working, Lou.
DOBBS: Is the secretary out of his mind? Is he looking at what Japan is doing? I mean what in the world is he talking about?
PILGRIM: Yes, it is a ridiculous - it's basically based on market principles and heading to China he said we're basically going to tell them that we need to send a stronger message and if they don't accept it, we have to tell them that we won't buy their products. Well, look at the trade numbers and that just shows how much - how effective that is.
DOBBS: Well, Secretary Leavitt and Secretary Paulson are going get the jolt of their lives. This country is absolutely already dependent upon China for clothing, for consumer electronics, for computer. I mean what more do these -- these are supposed to be among the brightest people in the country in this government and they don't even know what they're doing.
PILGRIM: Yes. It's a pretty tough trip. And they say we're prepared to help them understand we have standards.
DOBBS: We're going to help them understand? We're the idiots in this little relationship with China. We should be asking them what we could do to improve our situation. This administration needs all of the help that it can get. It's incredible the just utter ignorance and stupidity of these people in their trade negotiations and they just don't think.
PILGRIM: It's a disastrous situation for the American consumer.
DOBBS: Well, the last thing we would want the administration to think about or worry about would be the American people in any way because as Secretary Leavitt put it, commerce does come first after all. Thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
Coming up next here, the presidential election battle between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama turning ugly. We'll have that special report.
Things aren't so good on the republican side either. We'll have that report and more on the pro-amnesty movements startling legal victory over the department of homeland security. Who couldn't defeat this department of homeland security remains one of the central questions we'll explore.
And President Bush says difficult compromises are required to achieve Middle East peace. The good news is he's trying. Two leading authorities on the Middle East join me here. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, two of the world's leading authorities on the Middle East, Fouad Ajami, professor of Middle East studies at Johns Hopkins University, good to have you here, also, the author of the book, "The Foreigner's Gift, the Americans, the Arabs and the Iraqis in Iraq" and Professor Stephen Cohen, national scholar at the Israel Policy Forum Professor, good to have you here. The idea that the Annapolis conference, I've already heard a number of wags, pundits and savants start to suggest that this is an impossibility and a waste of time. You're reaction?
PROF. FOUAD AJAMI, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: The fact that they said so doesn't mean it's necessarily right or wrong. So it can't stand on its own as a proposition. I think it's too ambitious. I think someone we both hold in great esteem, the former Secretary of State Henry Kissenger said look this is a bold script with very weak actors. It's too late in the hour of the Bush presidency in year eight to introduce this big conference. It's really a leap into the void in many ways.
DOBBS: Professor Cohen.
PROF. STEPHEN COHEN, ISRAELI POLICY FORUM: It's a good thing that Israelis and Palestinians are going to be talking to each other and that all of the Arab world is coming together to reinforce the value of that. We have to have limited expectations of what can come out of it.
DOBBS: I have to ask you this, because after covering five administrations in my job, watching the middle east process, watching six men receive the peace price on working on middle east peace, which never came to fruition, why is there any less opportunity for this than any of the approaches tried previously that have failed?
AJAMI: What's interesting, President Bush shares your skepticism. For many, many years he stayed away from the conflict precisely armed with the proposition that this is a no-win proposition. Guess who told him to stay away from it? None other than Bill Clinton. He spent an enormous amount of time on the peace process. Interesting so late in the hour.
DOBBS: This is the first president, and no one is more critical of this president than I am on a host of issues but this is the first president to articulate the only substantive possible solution which is a two-state solution. He's been eviscerated from the left, the right and every quarter for doing so. Why is that not an embraced concept, why is there not a clear understanding amongst all of the groups that this has to be and that serve better off if it happens sooner rather than later?
COHEN: There is a clear understanding of that and there has been in the past. There's a basic problem with this conference and many that came before it. We're trying to do something that has not reached consensus within the parties. There is not an agreement within Israel and there is not an agreement within the Palestinian people about what to do. DOBBS: Let's be honest, the neocons in this country who have been so vocal are not going embrace the idea. Hamas and Iran, who are left out of the process, are not going to embrace it. At what point do serious people arguing and debating and moving ahead in good faith say, enough. Irrespective of the consensus, we have a sufficient number to move forward and reach a resolution. At what point does blood become so precious that we end the nonsense?
COHEN: Do you have a sufficient force? Because the basic thing that Israel wants from Abbas and he cannot deliver because of Hamas. He does not have the power to prevent Hamas from doing what it's doing in Gaza.
DOBBS: Together would they have the power to do so?
AJAMI: Interesting question. I have an irony. This is the secretary of state's work. This is her desire. This is her part to fashion her own legacy. This is a way she can step beyond the Iraq war. The irony, the Iraq war is things in Iraq are improving when this new mission impossible is launched.
DOBBS: Do you believe that together, Israel and a new Palestinian state, could move successfully against Hamas and the interest supported by with the support of Syria, the interests supported by Iraq?
COHEN: I don't think there is a solution here where they can destroy Hamas and leave them without a voice in this process.
DOBBS: I wasn't suggesting it. Simply move them aside or work with them. In either case neutralize them.
AJAMI: I mean we invited Syria. At the same time, the Syrian regime is being watched carefully for great crimes being committed and now we want the Syrians to come in so guess what the Syrians did? They obliged us. They sent us none other than they're deputy foreign minister. That's kind of mocking this conference.
DOBBS: If the Arab league cannot motivate and is Israel does not act with firmness and faith here, the mockery is there's. The joke is no longer to be played upon this country but on themselves. They look the weak and unimaginative states that they at this point have demonstrated themselves to be.
I want to move to Iraq very quickly. Obvious success in terms of the number of American lives being lost. Iraqi lives lost being reduced. Baghdad, report after report showing people returning to that city. Your reaction to the apparent success and part of the surge strategy?
COHEN: The question is whether or not within Iraq there are enough people who will start to say we want a solution of our own.
DOBBS: I get that but what I'm asking you is this creating a problem for these presidential candidates particularly on the democratic side who have been staking their careers and their prospects on failure in Iraq?
COHEN: I hope that's not what they're doing. I hope that we're not going to have a president who is basing his policy on the failure of a previous president.
DOBBS: We've been friends a long time. Look at what's happening in the democrat-led congress in both houses. As I said, I am no fan of this president but what we're watching here is the potential disaster in foreign policy that is the success of American foreign policy in the Middle East, are we not?
COHEN: As I say, I'm hoping we will have more wisdom than that.
DOBBS: You get the last wise word.
AJAMI: For the democrats that's it, they're going to go in '08 in November, and Iraq will look like a great success. And therefore they put the word out that the election will be fought on the economy. They are staying away from Iraq because they had bet on an American defeat in Iraq and an American defeat has not materialized and will not materialize.
DOBBS: You heard it here first and constantly. Your voice has been exact and on that forecast. Thank you very much, Professor Cohen. Thank you, Professor Ajami, thank you very much.
Coming up here next, the democrats or republicans, well they're having a fight. Clinton, Obama, Giuliani, Romney, what a mess. We'll tell you about it. And a victory for pro-amnesty groups blocking new rules to end the employment of illegal aliens. We'll hear from the ACLU on what in the world they think they're doing. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: And this just in to CNN, we have received word that the procedure to correct an irregular heart beat on Vice President Dick Cheney has been completed and successfully so. The vice president is now out of the hospital and has in fact returned home tonight. The operation, we are receiving word went "smoothly and without complication." He was admitted to the hospital earlier today to correct that arrhythmia to his heart. The vice president has a history of heart trouble of course and again Vice President Dick Cheney has just left a Washington hospital after being admitted earlier in the day to correct the irregular heart beat.
In presidential politics, the campaign has turned ugly on both sides of the aisle as it were, just weeks from the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary. Democrats and republicans alike are using tougher language against one another, the harsher tone most obvious in the battle between Senators Clinton and Obama, Senator Clinton accusing Senator Obama of not having a health care plan that covers every American, Senator Obama striking back saying Senator Clinton wants everyone to buy insurance and doing so with a bit of a snarl on the part of both. Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani well they're also on the attack, the two exchanging harsh words over issues such as crime and illegal immigration following Romney's decision last week to call for the resignation of a Massachusetts Superior Court judge, a judge that Romney, as governor, had appointed. The judge had released a convicted killer without bail. That man has since been charged with killing a married couple in the state of Washington. Romney shot back pointing to Giuliani's close friend and New York Police Commissioner who's been indicted, Bernard Kerik. All of that very appropriately for presidential politics I suppose at least in the terms of the time.
Coming up at the top of the hour, "OUT IN THE OPEN" and Rick Sanchez. Rick.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right. Let me try to get through these real quick because I know your producer's going to yell at me if I don't so here I go.
First of all, this is a serious story for an NFL football player, Lou. I mean he's in really a bad way. Apparently somebody came at him with a gun. He went after the guy with a machete and the whole thing is bloody and ugly and we're going to be taking you down to south Florida to bring you the very latest on that.
Also Natalee Holloway, is it possible that there's a development in this case and it may have to do with an incriminating discussion between the suspects, Van Der Sloot and the two brothers. Apparently they had a discussion they didn't know was being recorded at the time. We'll be taking you to Aruba. Susan Candiotti is going to be following the latest on that.
The story of an illegal immigrant crossing the border from Mexico into the United States and he has to make a decision, does he save his own skin or does he help a child, a 9-year-old, who apparently her parent, her mother had gone over a cliff in a canyon. She was dead, the little boy was lost. He had to make a decision. We'll tell you what happens.
And then subsidized corn may be a big reason that so many of us are feeling like an extra couple of belt loops after Thanksgiving. We're going to tell you what the result is and why so many Americans are getting a little fatter these days. That and a whole lot more right here on "OUT IN THE OPEN." Lou, back to you.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Rick. Looking forward to it.
Up next, a plan to fight employment of illegal aliens is put on hold by the department of homeland security; a victory for special interests, a complete defeat for this administration, an administration that seeks out defeat it seems when it comes to border security and illegal immigration. One of the victors will join us here.
And are fake news conferences a trend at the department of homeland security? We'll explore the possibilities. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, socioethnocentric interest groups forced the Bush administration to cave in says the Bush administration. The department of homeland security is suspending efforts to enforce new rules over the prohibited employment of illegal aliens. Joining me now is Lucas Guttentag. He is the director of the ACLU immigrants rights project and it's good to have you here. Is a victory conclusive?
LUCAS GUTTENTAG, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION: This is an interim step. This is a victory for American workers. That's what's important to stress here because if this rule had gone into effect, American workers and legally authorized workers would have been fired. That's what the judge found, that's why it was enjoined. The DHS was planning to use the database if the social security administration that has 70% of errors are of American citizen records.
DOBBS: 70% of people would have been fired across the country?
GUTTENTAG: They haven't been fired yet because the rule hasn't gone go into effect.
DOBBS: There was also a 90-day period in which to get everything rectified.
GUTTENTAG: Well what that does is to put the burden on the American worker, to tell the American worker, you take time off from work, you go down to the social security office, you try to get bureaucrats to correct your records. If you don't success, you're fired. It's a shoot first and ask questions later policy where the innocent victim is the U.S. worker.
DOBBS: Let me ask you a question.
GUTTENTAG: Sure, please.
DOBBS: Why in the world is the ACLU not filing suit against the proponents of the comprehensive immigration reform since it proposed to bring 12 to 20 million illegal aliens into a path for citizenship and CIS is so screwed up it can't handle the legal immigrants trying to enter the country?
GUTTENTAG: The DHS can't handle its job. That's a problem. We agree with that. And we agree you know you want to protect American workers. This rule has a problem with that. The American workers need protected so they wouldn't be unlawfully fired. This rule doesn't protect American workers.
DOBBS: You're all for border security?
GUTTENTAG: Sure, look. The government can enforce the immigration laws. Do it consistent with the constitution and the rule of law. I want to focus on the rule. What this rule would have done.
DOBBS: This administration has caved in to you, the AFL-CIO, all of the folks that are advocates who are talking about being activists. I mean it's ridiculous.
GUTTENTAG: I don't know whoa they caved in to but I know that this rule ...
DOBBS: The AFL-CIO that doesn't know the difference between an illegal worker and a legal worker. They're misrepresenting themselves to their membership and doing them a great disservice. I mean it's ridiculous.
GUTTENTAG: I think you ought to let them speak. That's not accurate.
DOBBS: It is accurate, by the way. We asked them come on and they didn't. I think this is important. You tell me the ACLU's position, what would permit us to determine whether an employer has hired an illegal alien?
GUTTENTAG: Michael Chertoff ought to be looking at his own agency and the problems in his agency. There's not a proper database. They're trying to use one that's full of errors.
DOBBS: I understand that. We're stipulating to it. What is the ACLU's position since you're concerned about enforcing immigration laws, what's your recommendation, the lawful way to do it under the constitution?
GUTTENTAG: Let me star with the first thing which is we could have an administration that enforces the labor laws.
DOBBS: I'm with you. That's not germane to the question I asked you. I would love to have labor unions that represented labor instead of big business and illegal alien aliens. We don't have that either.
GUTTENTAG: I think we do.
DOBBS: I think you're wrong. Who was your co-plaintiff, is AFL- CIO. They should be embarrassed out of their minds.
GUTTENTAG: OK, let's focus on the critical thing, and that is...
DOBBS: The focus on the critical thing is the question I asked...
GUTTENTAG: Right...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: What would satisfy the ACLU constitutionally as a way to stop the illegal hiring of illegal aliens?
GUTTENTAG: Enforcement of the law in a way that's consistent with the Constitution and the requirements of the statutes as written, not rules that violate the law and that violate the Constitution and punish innocent American workers. And there are laws that can do that that requires an accurate database. And it has to be done consistent with the American values that we share, of fairness and due process and respect for the rule of law.
DOBBS: We're... GUTTENTAG: Yes?
DOBBS: We're out of time. We're going to lose that satellite any second.
GUTTENTAG: OK. All right, thank you.
DOBBS: Lucas Guttentag, we than you very much, from the ACLU in San Francisco.
GUTTENTAG: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Up next, the Department of Homeland Security is under fire -- imagine that -- that story is next. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Department of Homeland Security also being criticized for another embarrassing incident involving the media. It turns out that last month's fake news conference by FEMA wasn't the first time an agency official pretended to be a reporter. In January 2006, it turns out an official with Immigration Customs Enforcement asked a question during a news conference as well.
Well, now, let's take a look at the poll results. Only 95 percent of you say you're not surprised the Bush administration and the Department of Homeland Security caved in to special interest groups and will instead negotiate federal immigration policy with the open-borders and amnesty groups.
Let's take a look at one of your thoughts. Bob in Maryland wrote in to say -- "Lou, for years I've heard the saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Well, this old 71-year-old dog has just learned a new trick. I now belong to the independent party and say so long to the Democrats."
Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit." Send it to your family, your friends.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow. Good night from New York. "Out in the Open" with Rick Sanchez begins right now -- Rick.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
