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When Candidates Collide; Gerri's Top Tips; China Snubs U.S.
Aired November 29, 2007 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Tony Harris. Stay informed all day in the CNN NEWSROOM. Here's what's on the rundown.
The CNN/YouTube Republican debate. Who scored? Who bored? This hour, Thursday morning quarterbacking by strategists from both parties.
COLLINS: Covered in gas, set on fire. New surgery this morning for a badly burned Iraqi boy. We'll go live to California.
HARRIS: Thrown to the floor and tasered. Turns out she's pregnant. We talk live with the police chief today, Thursday, November 29th. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: It got heated. At times, it got personal. Republican presidential candidates trading blows and taking your questions in the CNN/YouTube debate. Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney on illegal immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The reality is that New York City was not a sanctuary city.
MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The mayor actually brought a suit to maintain its sanctuary city status.
GIULIANI: In his case there were six sanctuary cities. He did nothing about then. There was even a sanction mansion. At his own home illegal immigrants were being employed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Another hot topic, bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED THOMPSON, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We shouldn't be in there any longer than necessary. And we don't know how long that will be. But we should be there absolutely as long as it takes to complete our mission there.
REP. RON PAUL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The best commitment we can make to the Iraqi people is to give them their country back. That's the most important thing that we can do.
REP. TOM TANCREDO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wish that we lived in a world where we did not have to worry by simply removing our forces we would be safe. Unfortunately, Ron, honest to God, I don't believe that that is the case. We are living in a world where we are threatened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: OK. Those are the sound bites. More now on the overall debate the morning after. Live now to St. Petersburg, Florida, and our Dana Bash.
Dana, great to see you.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you.
HARRIS: You know, we do this a lot. We just pulled the sounds bites and, oh, fire works, pop, pop, pop, pop. But let me ask you for an overall impression of maybe one take away from the debate. I mean these are candidates you've followed since day one. And if we have time, maybe I'll ask for another.
BASH: Well, I think the very first exchange that you played on immigration between Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani, for a couple of reasons, Tony. First of all because it just is really illustrative of where we are right now. These are the two front-runners, if you will, Mitt Romney in the early contest states but Rudy Giuliani on a national level. So they realize that the stakes are very high because we're getting very close to the first vote.
Secondly, because of the topic. Immigration. They also realize that it is red hot in those early contest states. And this is the issue that these voters are really paying attention to.
HARRIS: Yes. All right. Good. We've got time. Give me another. Give me another impression from last night's debate.
BASH: There was one moment that was kind of striking, and that was these -- all of the candidates had a chance to have their own videos plays from YouTube. Almost all of the candidates had something positive to say about themselves. Fred Thompson chose essentially a negative ad. The first negative commercial, if you will, or the video of the entire Republican race. He went after Mitt Romney and he went after Mike Huckabee. His aides fully admit in all candor, if you will, that it was to get attention because he is somebody who hasn't gotten a lot of attention.
It certainly worked. But it also elicited a very interesting response, Tony, from Mitt Romney, because it was attacking him on abortion. Back when he was governor of Massachusetts he was for abortion rights. He changed. Mitt Romney admitted in a way that he hadn't before, look, I did change. If you don't like it, voters, vote for somebody else. It was kind of a telling moment in this race.
HARRIS: Yes, that is. That kind of cuts through, doesn't it? All right, Dana Bash, part of the best political team on television. Dana, great to see you, thanks.
BASH: You, too. Thank you.
HARRIS: So who do you think won last night's debate? Check out cnnpolitics.com to watch highlights and get analysis from the best political team on television. See what everyone is talking about at cnnpolitics.com.
COLLINS: He led the impeachment proceedings against President Clinton and was also known for supporting government restrictions on abortion funding. Former Representative Henry Hyde died this morning. The 83-year-old Illinois Republican retired from Congress at the end of the last session. In his final years in office, Hyde was wheelchair bound. He had open heart surgery in July.
HARRIS: Sneak attack. Cyber crooks turning your personal computers into zombies. Have you heard of bot nets? That's what they're called. They can steal your identity and be used in malicious attacks to gum up servers. The FBI says in the past five months another 1 million computers have been invaded. The best way to keep your computer safe, update the anti-virus software, install firewalls and change your password.
A college student now with a double life. Did it lead to her disappearance. Emily Sander was last seen leaving a bar in El Dorado, Kansas. That happened on Friday. Police say she met a man there. They fear she may be a victim of foul play. Friends and family members say Sander lived a double life, appearing nude on an adult website. Police now confirming that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF TOM BOREN, EL DORADO, KANSAS POLICE: Investigators are aware that Miss Sander was apparently involved in a website situation. Allegations that this may factor in her disappearance are being thoroughly investigated as these and over 75 other leads have been actively pursued.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Well, police say the man who left the bar with Sander, Israel Mireles, has not been since seen. Investigators found his motel room in a mess with large quantities of blood.
COLLINS: Disturbing, new details in the death of Baby Grace. She's believed to be that unidentified little girl who's body washed ashore in Galveston, Texas. And we're hearing now about the two-year- old's final hours. The details coming from Riley's mother, according to her attorney.
He says Kimberly Trenor and her husband beat and tortured Riley because she failed to say please and sir. The attorney says Trenor's husband, Royce Ziegler, stayed home from work to enforce the discipline and became enraged when his orders were not followed. An attorney for Ziegler denies that. Riley's grandmother, in Ohio, alerted police when she saw the sketch of Baby Grace. She said the child resembled her granddaughter. DNA tests are expected to confirm they are, indeed, the same child. Well, a little bit later this hour, we'll hear from Riley's grandmother. We just spoke with her last hour.
HARRIS: Protest in Pakistan as the president gets a new term in office. Pervez Musharraf taking the oath for a third time today, but this will be the first time as a civilian. The inauguration one day after Mr. Musharraf ended a four-decade military career. The opposition and world leaders had demanded that. He has yet to agree to calls for an end to Pakistan's state of emergency. Some 200 lawyers took to the streets of Lahore protesting the inauguration. Police say four lawyers and three officers were injured.
What killed Pakistan's cricket coach? A jury inquest ended in Jamaica today with no ruling despite hearing testimony from more than 50 people. Bob Woolmer was found unconscious in his Kingston hotel in March, one day after his heavily favored team was ousted from the cricket world cup. Police say it is now up to Jamaica's coroner to decide if the 58-year-old's death was an accident, homicide, or the result of natural causes.
COLLINS: Doused with gasoline, set on fire, and disfigured. An Iraqi boy named Youssif is back in surgery this morning. Doctors at the Grossman Burn Center in Sherman Oaks, California, say this time there's going to be dramatic improvement in Youssif's face. We are all looking forward to seeing that, of course. The boy's tragedy inspired you, our generous viewers, to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to help pay for his medical care.
It's the moment they've been waiting for. Their loved ones, too. A heroes welcome for some 60 soldiers just back from Iraq. The men and women of the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, now back home at Fr. Carson, Colorado, after a 15-month deployment. How sweet (ph) it is.
HARRIS: Candidates collide in the CNN/YouTube debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you're going to take this holier than thou attitude that your whole approach to immigration was so . . .
MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm sorry. Immigration is not holier than thou, mayor.
GIULIANI: You're going to take a holier than thou attitude . . .
ROMNEY: It's the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: What are they saying? Our political experts weigh in and clear it all up for us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: OK. So stop if you've heard this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I am president, it won't be good enough for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: OK. Presidential presumptions in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: The questions came out. The gloves came off. Republican candidates trade jabs in the CNN/YouTube debate. We want to get the view from both sides now. Democratic strategist Donna Brazile is with us from Washington.
Hi there, Donna.
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning.
COLLINS: And from L.A. this morning, Republican strategist Amy Holmes.
Hi, Amy.
Thanks for being here, ladies.
AMY HOLMES, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Hi. Good morning.
COLLINS: All right. Amy, I'm going to start with you. Who won? One person answer.
HOLMES: You know, no clear front-runner, but I thought last night was a great night for Huckabee. He proved why he's gaining in the polls, why he's closing the gap in Iowa. He was smooth. He was unflappable. And he gave sophisticated, substantive answers. I really thought he did well.
COLLINS: OK, so Huckabee won in your mind.
Donna, what about you?
BRAZILE: Well, I thought Huckabee did very well last night, but John McCain also came across as a presidential candidate. He responded very well on that issue of torture. So I would give the night to Huckabee, but also a close second to John McCain.
COLLINS: All right. Now I've got to ask, who lost? Donna, let's start with you on that one.
BRAZILE: Well, Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter.
COLLINS: No, just one. Like who did really poorly, do you think, for this (INAUDIBLE)? BRAZILE: Well, I thought Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney could not answer the question on -- he got caught up on the waterboarding issue, the black on black crime. He wasn't very clear about abortion. So I thought this was perhaps Mitt Romney's worst performance so far in the debate.
COLLINS: OK. And what about you, Amy?
HOLMES: I would agree that this was his worst performance. I would disagree. I thought he was actually quite terrific on the question of black on black crime when he pointed out that the father/son teams were a father/son team. I thought last was very well done.
I thought last night actually Fred Thompson's negative attack ad against his rivals was really a low point. And as each of the campaign videos were rolled out through the course of the two hours, it just made his video seem smaller and meaner and pettier. And it kind of underscored the idea that his campaign is struggling to get into that front-runner status. So I thought that video, that negative attack ad just did very poorly.
COLLINS: Yes, and that wasn't a surprise. I mean they knew that that was going to be rolled. So it was interesting.
I want to talk to you about some of the other comments that were made, particularly this one that we're going to play regarding getting rid of some of these government agencies and government departments. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RON PAUL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would like to change Washington, and we could by cutting three programs, such as the Department of Education -- Ronald Reagan used to talk about that -- Department of Energy, Department of Homeland Security -- is the biggest bureaucracy we ever had.
MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The first thing that I would get rid of would be the Internal Revenue Service. We'd have a (INAUDIBLE) getting rid of a $10 billion a year industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: All right. So, obviously, Republicans and conservatives for a while, you know, this is nothing new, they always talk about not wanting too much federal intervention into the lives of American people.
Amy, did any of that, do you think, really resonate with voters?
HOLMES: Oh, well, you heard it in the hall. It was a Republican night. And Huckabee got a huge cheer. Huge applause. As did Ron Paul. You know, again, Ron Paul is a libertarian, so he's going a little bit further when he's talking about in terms of cutting programs than some of the other candidates. But, you know, that is basic conservative philosophy right there. Less government, smaller government. And then I think later on we'll hear people talking about less spending. That's also a big hot button issue for Republican voters.
COLLINS: But, Donna, come November 2008, or maybe even give them a couple of months into, you know, 2009, are we going to wake up and not have the IRS or the Department of Energy or the Department of Education?
BRAZILE: Well, look, it's great rhetoric for a red meat audience, but it's not a solution for what really ails our national government. They can cut all of the programs they want. But if they continue to borrow and spend crazily like they have done when the Republicans control the government, that's no way to bring us back down the road to fiscal sanity.
COLLINS: All right. I want to ask you a little bit about the Huckabee and Giuliani. We know that he actually had -- Mike Huckabee that is -- had a chance to shine with questions on the Bible. He was asked, I'm sure you remember, about what Jesus would do regarding the death penalty. What do you think -- and is it too much of a stretch to really be talking -- because this won't be the first time you've heard it, about a Giuliani/Huckabee ticket? Amy?
HOLMES: I think it's a very attractive ticket. I think Huckabee brings a lot to the table. He brings the southern vote. He brings the evangelical vote. You saw in his campaign ad, he was really touting his Christian credentials. It's a little controversial. But it's, nonetheless, a great asset for Huckabee. And I thought he answered that question about the Bible just beautifully. Of course, as a former pastor, he should. And, frankly, you know, I have to say, Heidi, I'd like to hear that question asked of Democrats. I want to hear them talking a little bit more about their faith.
COLLINS: OK. But it was the Republican debate. So, Donna, do you think -- Huckabee was funny (INAUDIBLE).
BRAZILE: Well, as you know, Democrats not afraid to talk about their faith and they're not afraid to put their faith in action in ways to help everybody. But, look, I think it could be a Huckabee/Giuliani ticket. It could be a Huckabee/Romney. Huckabee is surging in Iowa and you could tell last night why, because he seems to know a little bit more about what's going on on main street than the other Republican candidates.
COLLINS: Appreciate the view from both sides this morning. Amy Holmes, a Republican strategist, and Donna Brazile, a Democratic strategist.
Thanks, ladies.
BRAZILE: Thank you.
HOLMES: Thank you.
HARRIS: You know, you go to the doctor, but that sick feeling returns when you open your mail. Mistakes on your medical bills. How do you fix them? Expert advice coming up for you in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Take a moment to check out the big board for you now. Dow Jones Industrial average down about 60 points after yesterday's huge, huge numbers, gaining 331 points. Actually some of the headlines this morning saying that this is the biggest two-day gain in five years. So pretty good stuff. Still trying to keep it all in perspective, though, obviously. Resting now at 13,226. We have been above 14,000. So we will be talking more about all those business stories and what's going on with the markets just a little bit later.
HARRIS: All right. The cost of health care increasing four times faster than your paycheck. Brother. One way to trim costs, pay closer attention to your medical bills. CNN personal finance editor Gerri Willis is here.
Gerri, great to see you.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Tony.
HARRIS: You know, we're talking about these errors on our medical bills. You know, what are some of the most common errors on bills?
WILLIS: Well, you know, experts we talked to said that there are errors in eight out of every 10 medical bills.
HARRIS: Eight out of 10?
WILLIS: Eight out of 10. Can you imagine that. So it's most likely that you'll have a mistake, right?
HARRIS: Yes.
WILLIS: So get an itemized copy of the bill and go through it line by line. Now here are the common mistakes. Charges for routine supplies, services, and equipment. Now generally these charges should be included in the room cost. You may also be charged for a full day's stay when you've been discharged at noon. Watch for that. You may be charged twice, double billing, for a single procedure. Or maybe you're charged for medication that you never took.
HARRIS: Wow. All right. So, all right, let me move on because I've got a lot of thoughts on that and I don't want it get bogged down there. Another piece of advice here, is there any way to avoid, you know, some of these costly bills?
WILLIS: Well, look, if you're scheduled to have a procedure, find a hospital that is in network and make sure that all the doctors are in network for your health insurance. Look, some radiologists and anesthesiologists don't participate in insurance company programs. So get a written estimate, too, of how much the entire procedure will cost. Then you're going to have a ballpark estimate. You'll know what to expect. Now, if you don't have insurance, call the hospital and find out if there are discounts for you. Generally hospitals will negotiate some aspects of coverage if you're uninsured.
HARRIS: OK. You've laid out a pretty -- man, this is serious here. Eight out of 10. All right, I'm still stuck on that number. But is there a place you can go for help?
WILLIS: Well, contact the insurance company or the hospital first to see if you can clear up any confusion with the bill. But you may need the help of what they call a medical advocate. Now, these are folks who will try to resolve the dispute. Medical advocates charge you, though, for the privilege. $75 an hour or they keep a percentage of the money that you've saved. Go to billadvocates.com to find one in your area. And that, of course, is if you have a big, big bill, really trying to pare it.
HARRIS: Look, if you have some major health issues, these bills, I mean, they can really stack up. And it looks like -- it feels sometimes like they're just pouring in. Is there a way to sort of keep track of it all.
WILLIS: Yes. Well, the best way to avoid errors is to have good records, right? And there are resources online that can help you do that. Go to smartmedicalconsumer.com. Now this web site let's you keep track of doctors, procedures, costs, and how much your insurance company picked up. You can also check out ihealthrecord.org and mymedilist.org. So lots of web sites out there to help you keep track of this. Because if you do have an ongoing problem, you know how this is, the paperwork just builds up.
HARRIS: Eight out of 10 bills come with error. I'm stuck on it.
OK. How about the big "Open House" show coming up this weekend, Gerri?
WILLIS: Well, we're going to have the very latest in the mortgage meltdown and how to stay out of holiday debt. Don't you want to do that. Join us 9:30 a.m. Saturday morning right here on CNN for "Open House."
HARRIS: CNN personal finance editor Gerri Willis.
Gerri, great to see you, as always.
WILLIS: Great to see you.
HARRIS: A woman Tasered by police and then a shocking discovery. Now an investigation. We'll talk with the police chief.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Welcome back, everyone, to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Tony Harris.
COLLINS: Good morning, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins. Want to get to this news that we are just learning here now at CNN. We have been able to confirm some very interesting news out of Pakistan. Apparently Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said in a televised address that, yes, indeed, he will lift the state of emergency that has been in effect since November 3rd.
Today also an important day regarding his presidency. He has actually resigned -- it just happened yesterday -- as army chief and now today will be sworn in as civilian president. This will be the fourth time now he will hold that office.
But, once again, the news right now is that the state of emergency that has been in place since November 3rd has now been lifted. Excuse me, will be lifted on December 16th. Pardon me. Let me correct that. Once again, President Musharraf says he will end and lift that state of emergency on December 16th.
Today, however, is the day -- you see some of this ceremonial process going on right now -- that he will be sworn in as civilian president. So certainly a lot going on in Pakistan. We will continue to follow the story for you right here at CNN.
Port of no call. China, today, explaining why three U.S. Navy ships were turned away from its harbors. We'll hear that story in just a moment.
But first, CNN's Jamie McIntyre looks at the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): A reunion delayed. U.S. Sailors finally see their families in Yokosuka, Japan, after a planned Thanksgiving celebration last week in Hong Kong had to be scuttled when China reneged on a promised port call for the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk. Now China is offering its first explanation. It's foreign minister telling President Bush, it was all just a misunderstanding. The Pentagon says that's not good enough.
GEOFF MORRELL, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: There does not seem to be such a reason at this time that's obvious or apparent to any of us. So it is baffling. It's regrettable. And we have not to date received a sufficient explanation as to why it took place.
MCINTYRE: Angry, the Pentagon called in the Chinese defense attache to lodge a formal protest. Not just about rebuffing the Kitty Hawk, that simply disappointed and inconvenienced some 300 family members who flew to Hong Kong for nothing, but also to protest a more troubling breach of protocol the day before. Two American mine sweepers, the Patriot and Guardian, among the smallest ships in the Navy were refused refuge from rough seas, when a sudden storm blew up. The top commander in the Pacific was outraged.
ADMIRAL TIMOTHY KEATING, U.S. PACIFIC COMMANDER: They suffered no damage, but this is kind of an unwritten law amongst seamen that if someone is in need, regardless of phylum or species, you let them come in. You give them safe harbor. Jimmy Buffett has songs about it, for crying out loud.
MCINTYRE: The inexplicable snubs follow a trip to Beijing just three weeks ago by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates. It seemed like relations were improving so China's motives are all the more mysterious. One theory is the Chinese are miffed that on his visit, Gates failed to mention new Patriot missile sales to Taiwan, but the Pentagon says that's never been a secret.
Another guess is China was hiding naval maneuvers, but the U.S. Pacific command says the exercises were miles to the south. Some even suspect retaliation for President Bush giving a Congressional Gold Medal to the Dalai Lama, but military commanders reject that as unlikely.
MCINTYRE: China has lodged a protest of its own after the USS Kitty Hawk returned to Japan by way of the Taiwan Strait, which China sees as its territory. The U.S. Navy denies it was any kind of in- your-face gesture, saying it was simply a matter of better weather making for smoother sailing.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: And now for the rest of the story, our John Vause is in Beijing this morning. Hello to you there, John.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi.
Well, this is the latest twist and turn in the Kittyhawk snub. What we now know from a regular news briefing here in Beijing by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the spokesman, that is spokesman, well, he's contradicted those reports coming from the White House that his boss, the foreign minister, said this is all one big misunderstanding. He said, in fact, that those reports are erroneous. And went on to say that U.S./China relations have been strained and have been disturbed and harmed, firstly by President Bush awarding that Congressional Gold Medal to the Dalai Lama, and, secondly, by the U.S. upgrading Taiwan's antimissile batteries.
Now there's also a report out today in this newspaper. It's called the "Global Times." It's published by the people's daily. That is effectively the mouthpiece of the Communist Party. It quotes an unnamed senior People's Liberation Army officer as saying that missile sale to Taiwan sent the wrong signals, and, quote, "at a time when the U.S. side is seriously harming china's interest there is no logic under heaven by which China should be expected to open its heart and embrace it."
All of this is very confusing. It's incredibly unusual, almost unheard of, to have a midlevel bureaucrat, like a spokesman, to so publicly contradict his boss, the minister, unless, of course, someone higher up has told him to do so -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes, very unusual. But it still leaves the question, what does it mean nor U.S. and China relations at this point, especially when you look at writings like that?
VAUSE: Well, the spokesperson today during that briefing did say in general terms that communications and ties had been improving, and as we heard in Jamie's piece, this comes after the U.S. defense secretary visited Beijing and there were promises of better communications, even a pledge to establish a hotline between Beijing and Washington. So all of this, it's just all very confusing, to say the least.
All right, and I don't think it will be the end of what we hear on the subject certainly. CNN's John Vause live from Beijing today. Thank you, John.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
HARRIS: And this story we have been following all morning for you, last couple days actually -- tasered while pregnant. A case in Trotwood, Ohio triggers an FBI investigation. The incident captured on police surveillance video. Authorities say a woman showed up asking to give up custody of her 1-year-old son. An officer tried to get some additional information. Then they say the woman tried to leave with the child. She struggles with the officer. That's when she's taken to the floor and tasered on the neck.
We just want to find out more about what happened. With us on the phone is Trotwood, Ohio police chief Mike Etter.
Chief, thanks for your time this morning. We appreciate it.
CHIEF MIKE ETTER, TROTWOOD, OHIO POLICE: You're welcome.
HARRIS: Just want to clarify this as best we can, from where you sit, did the officer do anything wrong, anything against police policy, a fireable offense, if you will?
ETTER: That's what we're in the process of investigating. Basically the officer was called to the police department and upon trying to get any information, the female became agitated.
HARRIS: Yes.
ETTER: And started to leave. At that point in time the officer's concern was for the welfare of the child. Not even knowing if it was her child at that point in time. Tried to detain her, and she tried to break away. He gained control of the child and was still trying to hold onto her when another officer arrived and he took her from the bench to the ground, and in the process of getting one handcuff on and her not giving the other arm, the taser was deployed.
We're in the process now of looking at our policy and looking at the overall circumstances to see if any policies were violated.
HARRIS: OK, now, he didn't -- I guess I hear you saying that he feared for the safety of the child. So he didn't fear for -- the officer didn't fear for his own safety.
ETTER: No.
HARRIS: So he was concerned -- so my question then is, so why do you think he felt the need to take her to the floor and -- did he feel that the woman was going to harm the child?
ETTER: Well, the reason for detaining her is not knowing whether she would cause harm to the child or not. Again, there was no information given, and when he tried to find out...
HARRIS: So why the taser? I get that. I totally get that. I'm just trying to understand -- you take her to the floor. You're in a police precinct. There are other officers around. We're just trying to figure out -- and I'm not trying to indict here. I am just trying to figure out why the taser.
ETTER: First of all, it's important to realize the officer had no idea she was pregnant.
HARRIS: Yes, yes.
ETTER: She never said she was pregnant. She had on a heavy winter jacket.
HARRIS: That's a great point. That's a great point to make.
ETTER: And everybody is kind of assuming that the officer had knowledge she was pregnant, and he didn't. But the taser was used at that point for compliance, to get her other arm handcuffed, and under our policy, under a lot of policies throughout the country for the use of force continuum, if you try to do passive hands on and put your hands on and there's resistance, the taser can be deployed, and that's what we're in the process of looking at the circumstances and comparing it with our policy to see if the officer made a mistake or if our policy is appropriate. You know, these are living documents that we use to give guidelines to our officers.
HARRIS: Here is the issue, here's the issue, and I know you're going to look at it, and once again thank you so much for coming on to talk about this. As you look at the video, and I know we get into these circumstances and I don't know that it's actually fair to do this, but we take a look at the woman. We take a look at the officer, and we're saying you don't need a taser. You already have her on the floor. You have other officers there. So, you know, we wonder, you know, is this a bit of bad judgment here, and we come back to that question again, and clearly it's something you're exploring. What's the need here to hit her in the neck with a taser?
ETTER: Well, Tony, here is the situation I'm in -- for me to make a comment before the investigation is completed...
HARRIS: Yes. I totally get it.
ETTER: ... is going to prejudice my decision. What I'm trying to do is I don't want to make a rush to judgment. I want to wait 'til all the facts are in and before I make that decision, but we will take appropriate action depending on what that might be. It might be revising our policy.
HARRIS: Yes, yes.
ETTER: But we are looking into it. We are cooperating fully with the FBI. In fact, we contacted them. We've sent them everything we have on this investigation.
HARRIS: OK, and one last question. Is the use of the taser here in compliance with the taser policy of your department?
ETTER: Yes, it is.
HARRIS: It is?
ETTER: Yes.
HARRIS: OK.
ETTER: With the officer not knowing that the lady was pregnant and under the use of force continuum. Now, it says, and I will be more than happy to fax you a copy of our policy or the use of force continuum ...
HARRIS: OK.
ETTER: There's a lot more that goes into it. The officer has to take into consideration a lot of different things ...
HARRIS: All right.
ETTER: ...but under what they're trying to do as far as the individual you're taking into custody and the response that's appropriate, right now, it falls within our guidelines.
HARRIS: Got you. Chief, I take you at your word. Good to talk to you and if you're going to send me some information, I'll read it. Chief, again, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.
ETTER: You're welcome.
COLLINS: Baby Grace and a grisly death of Riley Ann Sawyers. New details and new insights. We'll hear from the woman who helped police connect the cases.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Gruesome new details on the death of Riley Ann Sawyers. She's the little girl believed to be Baby Grace, whose body washed ashore in Galveston, Texas. An attorney for Riley's mother says the woman's husband beat and tortured the little girl to teach her manners. The husband's attorney denies that. DNA tests are expected to confirm that Baby Grace's body is indeed that of little Riley. Riley's grandmother first made the connection. She contacted police after seeing the composite sketch. Sheryl Sawyers joined us in the NEWSROOM just last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERYL SAWYERS, RILEY'S GRANDMOTHER: She was a very wonderful child. She loved to sing, she loved to dance, watch movies. Her favorite was "Cars." You know, she liked to sit and read books, you know, just sit with you in a chair, snuggled up. Loved to be outside. When it was nice out, she wanted to be outside. Didn't want to come back in the house. But, yes, she was the light of my life.
COLLINS: When was the last time that you saw Riley?
SAWYERS: May 25th.
COLLINS: And I know it had been some time after that where you had not seen her. In fact, a couple of months. What were you thinking in that time? Were you worried about her?
SAWYERS: Yes, I was worried about where she was, you know. We couldn't locate her. We couldn't locate her mother, and that we had visitation that was set up, you know, my son, and we'd go to pick the child up. She was never there. You know, we didn't know where she was, and, of course, her family was not helpful in us finding where she was.
COLLINS: Was there any way that you could have contacted authorities or that Robert could have contacted authorities because if those visitation rights were court ordered ...
SAWYERS: Right.
COLLINS: ...it would seem like those alert flags were up, yes?
SAWYERS: Well, it would seem that way, wouldn't it, but authorities -- we did at one point try to file a missing person's report. Because he's the non-custodial parent, it causes all kinds of problems. I mean, she has the rights. We have to go through the court system, and as you know, the court system sometimes takes, you know, a little time.
COLLINS: Let's talk for a minute if we could, Sheryl, about that composite sketch. I had spoken several times with Major Tuttoilmondo, who I'm sure that you are familiar with now.
SAWYERS: Yes, yes, I know.
COLLINS: A person who really has seemed very emotionally connected to this case. The sheriff's deputy investigator and so forth in Galveston, Texas, where Baby Grace's body who's -- again, we should let everyone know those DNA tests have not been confirmed yet, but they do suspect yes, that it is Riley Ann.
How did you come to know him? How did it all come together where you finally said, oh, my gosh, the sketch that I'm looking at seems to be my granddaughter?
SAWYERS: When I first saw the sketch, you know, on the Internet and I looked at it, you know, that's what kind of first drew me to it is a little blond-haired little girl who, you know, kind of resembles my granddaughter, and as I read through the story, you know, and realized it was a toddler who was found in Texas, which we found out at the end of August finally that Kimberly was in Texas.
I just -- you know, I didn't want to believe it could be her, but, you know, we've had no contact from her since May, and, you know, it was going on five months, so I called to have -- I gave them the address that I had. I asked could somebody please go out there, you know, check. I mean it resembles my granddaughter. I don't know if it is, but could they check to make sure that she's at the address with her mother and that she's OK. And of course, we find out that she's not.
COLLINS: How well did you know Royce Zeigler?
SAWYERS: I did not know Royce Zeigler at all.
COLLINS: Did Robert know him?
SAWYERS: No, the first time my son or I, either one of us, laid eyes on him was when his mug shot came up on the television.
COLLINS: What about Kimberly? Did you ever think that Kimberly would have been capable of something like this?
SAWYERS: No, no, I never did. I mean, she lived with me for two years. She called me mom, you know. I mean, and I thought of her as my daughter. I never, never thought that she could do this to her child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Riley's biological father had planned to join us in that interview this morning as well, but he changed his mind at the last minute.
HARRIS: So after a huge two-day rally, stocks appear to be taking a bit of a breather. I guess we understand that. Susan Lisovicz is on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Love you there in the midst of all the action.
All right, Susan. It was this totally predictable that there would be some selling today?
(BUSINESS HEADLINES)
COLLINS: Stop us if you've heard this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRES. CANDIDATE: When I'm president, it won't be good enough for me. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Presidential presumptions, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: They're just candidates, but they can't be stopped from saying a stock phrase.
CNN's Jeanne Moos, part of the best political team on television.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You probably think there can only one president of the United States at a time, right?
Then how come they're all saying...
JOHN EDWARDS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I'm president...
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I am president of the United States of America.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I am president, it won't be good enough for me.
MOOS: They say it without a trace of doubt. In speeches...
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I'm president...
MOOS: They even say it in commercials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM ROMNEY FOR PRESIDENT CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I'm president...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOOS: Saying when I'm president with such certainty is a mouthful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It depends on your ego and how narcissistic you are.
MOOS: Spoken like a true psychoanalyst -- which she is. Forget humility.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about if I am president of the United States?
MOOS (on camera): What's wrong with if?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. It's not a bad word.
MOOS (voice-over): If you're running for president, it is. EDWARDS: I'll tell you what kind of torture will be tolerated when I'm president of the United States -- no torture will be tolerated.
MOOS: Even dark horse candidates put their names on administrations that probably never will exist.
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That I find highly offensive and will not happen in a Dodd administration.
MOOS: But talk about confidence. Listen to Hillary's response to Katie Couric.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY "CBS EVENING NEWS")
KATIE COURIC, HOST: If it's not you, how disappointed will you be?
CLINTON: Well, it will be me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good for her.
MOOS (on camera): Cocky or confident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arrogant. But she gets that from her husband.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY "CBS EVENING NEWS")
COURIC: I know that you're confident it's going it be you, but there is a possibility it won't be. And, clearly, you've -- you have considered that possibility.
CLINTON: No, I haven't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MOOS: Critics gleefully jumped on Hillary once, when she mentioned being president again -- though she was never quite president the first time.
CLINTON: That's what I am going to try to do as president again.
MOOS: Though maybe she just meant she was making the point again, not planning to be president again.
Just think of all the losers who have been proven wrong.
BOB DOLE, FORMER SENATOR: When I'm president of the United States.
MOOS: Not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In fact, I could say that more convincingly.
MOOS (on camera): Let's hear it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I'm president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I'm president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I am president of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when I'm president of the United States...
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I'm president.
MOOS: When I'm president. When I'm president. When I'm president. But our favorite usage dates way back to 1932...
(voice-over): At least Betty Boop actually went on to become President Boop.
(VIDEO CLIP FROM "BETTY BOOP," COURTESY YOUTUBE/PARAMOUNT)
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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