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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush Announces Foreclosure Relief Plan
Aired December 06, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf.
Major new development today in the country's mortgage crisis, foreclosures hit an all-time high but help may be on the way for some as President Bush announces a foreclosure relief plan. We'll have that story and all of today's news and much more, straight ahead, tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Thursday, December 6. Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Christine Romans.
ROMANS: Good evening, everybody. Help may be on the way for desperate homeowners caught in the mortgage crisis. President Bush today announcing a relief plan as home foreclosures soar to an all- time high. The president's plan would freeze interest rates for some borrowers. It would allow others to renegotiate their loans. The president said the plan would help over a million homeowners, so some say far fewer will actually benefit. Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Finally details of the government's plan to help mortgage holders facing foreclosure. The picture is still less than clear.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm pleased to announce that our efforts have yielded a promising new source of relief for American homeowners.
PILGRIM: But a closer look finds it will only help a fraction of people facing foreclosure. Homeowners are eligible if they took out a loan between 2005 and July of this year, which is due to reset to a higher interest rate any time from the beginning of 2008 through July 2010. Treasury Secretary Paulson admitting it is not a perfect plan.
HENRY PAULSON, TREASURY SECRETARY: The approach announced today is not a silver bullet. We face a difficult problem for which there is no perfect solution.
PILGRIM: None of the people currently delinquent on loans or currently facing foreclosure will be helped and there are over a million already this year. The president said the plan could potentially help 1.2 million people. Other industry analysts put it much lower. JOHN TAYLOR, NATL. COMM. REINVESTMENT COALITION: This plan is too narrowly defined. It is only going to help, you know, 10, 15 percent of that population, none of the people who are currently in foreclosure.
PILGRIM: Even if a homeowner qualifies for the federal interest rate freeze, consumer mortgage groups say details of the arrangement are still not clearly outlined.
ANDREW JAKABOVICS, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: It is really not clear from what has been released so far exactly what qualifies as a hardship, whether they are basically going to try and force you to basically live a very, very, very constrained life style until you can pay these things off if at all.
PILGRIM: The Mortgage Bankers Association estimates the foreclosure problem will intensify next year and already about five and half percent of borrowers are now at least 30 days late making a mortgage payment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now the president said this is not a bailout for predatory lenders or speculators or people who took out a mortgage they could not afford. This is just the initial effort. The Bush administration is still working out details on how to deal with the impact of foreclosures on the capital markets and also new rules to stop deceptive lending -- Christine.
ROMANS: And what about what homeowners are going to have to do to qualify? I mean do we know any of those details yet?
PILGRIM: It is a little bit problematic. There really aren't very many details. And things such as, do you pay off your student loans first. Can you qualify if you have a lot of debt in other areas? The conditions for these people are still not really clear.
ROMANS: All right. (INAUDIBLE) situation overall. All right, Kitty Pilgrim. Thanks, Kitty.
The president urged homeowners in need to reach out for help and he announced a new hotline, 1-888-995-HOPE, 1-888-995-HOPE. And you can find that number on our Web site, LouDobbs.com.
So apparent contradictions within the White House tonight, the president Tuesday said he was briefed on the national intelligence assessment in August and wasn't told about Iran suspending its nuclear weapons program, but now the White House press secretary says Iran's weapons program was discussed at that briefing. Ed Henry reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): White House Press Secretary Dana Perino admitted President Bush could have been more accurate about when he learned that Iran's nuclear weapons program may have been halted. DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can see where you could see that the president could have been more precise in that language because the president was being truthful.
HENRY: The president's candor is at issue because at his Tuesday news conference dominated by questions about the new national intelligence estimate on Iran, he said this.
BUSH: I was made aware of the NIE last week in August. I think it was John -- Mike McConnell who came in and said we have some new information. He didn't tell me what the information was.
HENRY: But it turns out at that meeting, the president did get at least some information about Iran halting its program. According to Perino's new account of that August briefing by Director of National Intelligent Mike McConnell.
PERINO: McConnell told the president if the new information turns out to be true what we thought we knew for sure is right. Iran does in fact have a covert nuclear weapons program, but it may be suspended.
HENRY: Perino also now says McConnell specifically told the president in August that this information might cause the intelligence community to change its assessment of Iran.
PERINO: Even getting details of what the information was in terms of what the actual raw intelligence was...
(CROSSTALK)
HENRY: Perino said McConnell stressed it would take a long time to check out the new intelligence carefully. But the key question is given that private uncertainty in August why did the president continue to publicly suggest Tehran was an imminent threat.
PERINO: He told there is new information confirming what we thought to be the case. That they were pursing nuclear weapons and they had actually a nuclear weapons program previously undisclosed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: So the White House is trying to emphasize the one part of the report that shows Iran once had a nuclear weapons program instead of the part which shows they halted it four years ago because that suits their political interest, but also because the president believes Tehran is still a threat -- Christine.
ROMANS: All right, Ed Henry at the White House. Thank you, Ed.
Another country with nuclear ambitions tonight, North Korea. President Bush in a letter telling North Korean leader Kim Jong Il that North Korea must fully disclose its nuclear activities by the end of the year. North Korea had previously agreed to the deadline, but U.S. officials acknowledge that deadline is likely to slip. There are still disagreements over exactly what needs to be included in the report.
In Iraq today our top military commander there said there's been a significant drop in violence but more tough work lies ahead. General David Petraeus told reporters in Baghdad that violence is down about 60 percent in the last six months. Petraeus said the surge in U.S. forces and cooperative efforts with local militia have helped put radical Islamists on the run, but Petraeus said even with the progress this has been the deadliest year for U.S. troops since the start of the war.
Adding to that grim total, four more of our troops have been killed in Iraq. Three were killed during combat operations in Salah ad Din province. The fourth died of injuries from a non-combat incident. Six of our troops have been killed so far this month; 3,887 have been killed since the war began; 28,629 of our troops have been wounded; 12,817 of them seriously.
Joining me now with more on General Petraeus' remarks and the success of the troop surge, one of our country's most decorated former military commanders, General David Grange. Welcome to the program.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you.
ROMANS: General Petraeus his comments likely to feed the controversy and the political posturing over whether the surge is working or not. What do you make of these conflicting numbers that Petraeus says the violence is down but at the same time this is still the deadliest year in the war?
GRANGE: Well the deadliest year in the war with most casualties actually happening in the first half of the year prior to the surge being in place and then the effects of that surge, so really this last four months or so is where we've had a lot of positive results. That's why you get some -- a little bit of a conflict in the deadliest year compared to now deaths are down significantly.
ROMANS: Can you have tactical security progress if that's what this is. Can that continue if you don't have economic rebuilding, if you don't have political reconciliation, if you don't have better governance on the ground? What does all of that mean?
GRANGE: Well it is all supposed to go together. In other words, if you had lines on the chart showing progress, you want your military progress to be synchronized, with your political progress, your social progress, your economic progress. And the security, the safe and secure environments, the rule of law that's starting to grasp -- get a hold and take grasp here in Iraq is out distancing the other things like political reconciliation, so that's what he's talking about there.
ROMANS: During his sixth visit to Iraq as defense secretary, Robert Gates said this about his confidence in the surge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: More than ever I believe that the goal of a secure, stable and democratic Iraq is within reach. We need to be patient, but we also need to be absolutely resolved in our desire to see the nascent signs of hope across Iraq expand and flourish so that all Iraqis can enjoy peace and prosperity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Nascent signs of hope but at the same time we're still wondering when you know Iraq can take care of its own security as well. I mean how much further do we have to go, General?
GRANGE: Well you know these are positive comments, and I think they're spot on. But you have to be leery of peaks and valleys. You know General Patton, Julius Caesar both said glorious pleading, so as you have momentum, positive momentum you have to be prepared for the unexpected or some drawbacks, so every two feet forward may be one back. These are positive signs and with the Iraqi security forces being trained at an increasing rate they're going to take over many of these roles. However, you will not see the Iraqi forces capable of securing their country themselves probably for another five years.
ROMANS: And so I suppose that's why General Petraeus is saying you know quote, "there are continued improvements in the security situation" but at the same time he says "there is much hard work still to be done". He's not, by any stretch of the imagination trying to be overly optimistic here.
GRANGE: Absolutely because in conflict and warfare the unexpected is always out there and things can happen. He just -- he doesn't want to over promise the capabilities that are being provided now with the forced surge and the improvement of the Iraqi security forces.
ROMANS: All right, General David Grange, as always thank you for dropping by.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
ROMANS: Coming up, the Department of Homeland Security, the subject of a scathing assessment. Louise Schiavone will have that story -- Louise.
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christine, a fresh report from a government watchdog group finds if ever there were an under- performing cabinet agency it will be the one created to guarantee the safety of Americans.
ROMANS: All right, thanks Louise.
Also, once again Mexico's president blasting U.S. officials and Canada on U.S. policies. But another Mexican official is taking a calmer approach to U.S/Mexican relations. We'll have that story.
And teen pregnancy on the increase for the first time in over a decade, why the change? We'll have a special report. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROMANS: New revelations tonight confirming what we've been reporting here for years. The federal government is wasting billions of dollars of your money in the war against terror here at home. An exhaustive new study by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, it documents a long list of failed programs, fraud, abuse. Louise Schiavone reports now on how the best government money can buy is not buying us any security.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE (voice-over): Five years into its life span the Department of Homeland Security is spending money like crazy and says a liberal watchdog group with very little to show in enhanced national security.
MELANIE SLOAN, CITIZENS FOR RESPONSIBILITY & ETHICS: The department is a total disaster. Billions of taxpayer dollars have been wasted on ineffective programs that have never worked as they're supposed to and frankly the Bush administration is not being held accountable for the failures of DHS.
SCHIAVONE: Former federal prosecutor Melanie Sloan directed the five year anniversary review of DHS, an agency deemed by the Government Accounting Office to be at high risk for fraud, waste, abuse and mismanagement. The Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington says billions of taxpayer dollars are hemorrhaging through inefficient programs, including hundreds of millions of dollars spent on unused post Katrina FEMA housing and underperforming $2 billion virtual fence border patrol program along the Arizona border and the expense of the non-performing U.S. Visit Program.
SLOAN: Over $2 billion has been wasted on this program that's supposed to track people who both enter and leave the country. While in fact all it does is fingerprint them when they come into the country but there is nothing to track them when they leave.
SCHIAVONE: Said Mike Cutler, a former agent with the Immigration and Nationalization Service...
MICHAEL CUTLER, FORMER INS SPECIAL AGENT: What is it exactly that we the people, the taxpayers of this country are getting for all that money being spent? And how is this making us any more secure? You know I'm just so fearful that we will get hammered again.
SCHIAVONE: In response to the report a DHS spokesman said quote, "This is a completely disingenuous report, full of misleading and erroneous information. Their disregard for accuracy borders on the alarming. Had they paid any attention to the countless congressional testimonies, speeches and interviews that we've given they'd understand just how ill informed they are", end quote.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Christine, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington is urging the candidates to talk about these issues on the presidential campaign trail -- Christine. ROMANS: Louise, that's a pretty strong response from the Department of Homeland Security. They say it's alarming but do they bring up any specific things they say this group is wrong about?
SCHIAVONE: Christine, they are really irate about this report from this group, from this liberal group. They say that the U.S. Visit Program, the Border Security Programs, all of these programs that they mention are not underperforming as this report states.
ROMANS: As we know, this is not the first group to raise these kinds of concerns. In fact, the Government Accountability Office, as you reported, has raised some of those concerns. Louise Schiavone, thank you so much.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you believe that the Department of Homeland Security five years after its creation is fulfilling its job of securing our nation? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.
More mixed messages today from Mexico in this country's affairs. Mexico's President Felipe Calderon slammed U.S. presidential candidates for being anti-Mexican while Mexico's ambassador to the United States promoted a partnership between the two nations. Casey Wian reports on the latest rhetoric from Mexico.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mexican President Felipe Calderon hammered U.S. presidential candidates Wednesday, telling the local radio station, quote, "The only theme in the U.S. electoral campaign is to compete to see who can be the most swaggering, macho and anti-Mexican."
Calderon also accused the American public of a total lack of understanding, incitement and hostility toward Mexicans and he warned the U.S. against imposing anticorruption safeguards on a proposed $1.4 billion military aid package to help Mexico fight drug cartels. Reacting to concerns the military hardware could wind up in the hands of the same drug lords it targets, Calderon said, "I need that technology. Give it to me. And give it to me without conditions."
From criticisms of more border fencing to demands for illegal alien amnesty, Mexico is increasing its efforts to intervene in U.S. domestic policy. Analysts said Mexico would never tolerate similar U.S. interference in its domestic affairs.
PROFESSOR GEORGE GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM & MARY: The outcry that we would hear, it would break the sound barrier. Nonetheless that's exactly what is happening in reverse. And unfortunately, President Calderon is doing nothing to quiet this outlandish rhetoric.
WIAN: In fact after a year in office, Calderon's anti-U.S. rhetoric is intensifying. But that's not the case with his government's representative in Washington, D.C. Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan spoke Thursday of partnership and shared security and prosperity.
ARTURO SARUKHAN, MEXICAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Despite some of the pundits and some of the people on the airwaves out there who would suggest that Mexico is an uninterested partner in America's national security, I would suggest precisely the contrary. It behooves Mexico to guarantee that that common border is not used to threaten the security of the United States.
WIAN: Sarukhan admits government corruption linked to drug cartels remains a challenge for Mexico, but his boss, President Calderon, rejects the notion that the United States should require safeguards for more than a billion dollars in U.S. taxpayer money.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: A State Department spokesman said he sees no need to get into a debate over Calderon's comments. It is worth noting that the Mexican ambassador's conciliatory words were delivered to an American audience while President Calderon was speaking to Mexican radio listeners. That audience of course often appreciates its leader standing up to Uncle Sam -- Christine.
ROMANS: All right, Casey Wian. Thank you, Casey.
Time now for some of your thoughts. Ron in Ohio, "Our snub from China in not letting our war ships in their ports should not be too hard to fix. Just deny Chinese ships entry into our ports."
Bobbi in Nevada, "Maybe the only way we can light a fire under our representatives in Washington is to redirect those tunnels from Mexico into the backyards of our so-called representatives. What's scary though is that our representatives would likely greet them with coffee, donuts, and drivers' licenses." Only eight states have drivers' licenses.
We'll have more of your e-mails later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of Lou Dobbs' new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit".
Up next, teen pregnancy rates are rising. Who is to blame? Some say the abstinence only sex-ed program pushed by the Bush administration.
Add God and politics, how issues of faith are part of the presidential election cycle now more than ever.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: A disturbing new study tonight on teen pregnancy in this country. More teenagers are giving birth. The study fuels criticism of the abstinence only program pushed by the Bush administration. Mary Snow reports on the finger pointing over who is to blame for rising now teen pregnancy rate. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When 2006 birth rates for teenagers were first gathered by the Centers for Disease Control the head researcher said she was so surprised by the results she wanted to make sure there wasn't a mistake. The numbers compiled by the CDS show a three percent increase in the teen birth rate reversing a 14-year decline. Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood, blames the rise in part on the Bush administration's abstinence only sex-ed program.
CECILE RICHARDS, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Unfortunately what's happening as young people are sexually active and they are not using contraception and I think that's what this new CDC study shows.
SNOW: Don't blame abstinence programs, says the conservative think tank, The Heritage Foundation, which explains the teen birth rate rise this way.
ROBERT RECTOR, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: They want to have children very much. They feel they ought to wait until they're a little older, but gee waiting is not all that critical.
SNOW: Just whether abstinence only programs work has been the subject of debate since President Bush advocated that.
BUSH: One of the parts of our welfare reform reauthorization is to promote abstinence. Let me give you a reason why we should. It works every time.
(APPLAUSE)
SNOW: The White House called the rise in teen pregnancy an unwelcome development. Adding, "We'll be interested to understand what are the causes for the increase and whether it is an anomaly following a long decline in rates or a trend."
Democratic presidential hopeful Senator Hillary Clinton touted family planning programs during her husband's administration for a steady decrease in the teen birth rate, adding "under President Bush's leadership, we may be falling off track". Planned Parenthood says even during the decline the teen pregnancy rate was higher than it should have been.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We still have in this country the highest teen pregnancy rate of the most developed countries in the world. And in the 21st century I just think we can do better.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now the government points out that funding for abstinence programs on the state level started during the Clinton administration. They were expanded to a national level during the Bush presidency and spending was increased -- Christine.
ROMANS: So it is unclear really the reason for this reverse of a 14-year trend of decline in teen pregnancy rates.
SNOW: Yes, that's the one thing no one can answer. And no one is saying with certainty that this is the start of a trend but certainly across the board people are saying it is alarming.
ROMANS: Ten to 14-year-olds, though, there was a dip in rates for 10 to 14-year-olds.
SNOW: That was the only group that decreased in this past year in terms of teen birth rates.
ROMANS: And again we don't know why.
SNOW: Exactly. The government would say that because of abstinence programs, but it is really unclear why it is.
ROMANS: OK, Mary Snow. Thank you so much.
Important to note, rising after a 14-year decline -- Mary Snow.
Coming up, a leap of faith on the campaign trail where God and politics meet, a presidential hopeful puts his faith on the line. We'll hear from our panel of experts on church and state.
And America's middle class in the line of fire as more jobs move offshore. We'll have a special report.
Plus millions of dangerous toys still on store shelves despite dozens of recalls of millions of lead-tainted toys. We'll have a special "buyer beware alert".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Despite the recalls of millions of Chinese-made toys contaminated with lead, there are still toxic toys in stores on the shelves right now this Christmas season. Joining me now for more on these dangerous toys in our D.C. bureau, Ed Mierzwinski, consumer program director of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group, and Lori Wallach, director of Global Trade Watch. Joining me here in New York, Urvashi Rangan, senior scientist and political analyst of Consumer Reports. We also invited the Toy Industry Association to appear. Urvashi, let me start with you at Consumer Reports. You've done research and studies where you've gone out, purchased things on store shelves, tested themselves under strictly scientific circumstances and you found there are things on store shelves that are not safe.
URVASHI RANGAN, CONSUMER REPORTS: There definitely are. They go beyond as paint on the toys, which is what everybody thinks of now as having lead. It goes into vinyl. And things where our government says well there are no regulations but that's because they have no standards in place for them. The fact of the matter is lead is lead and if you can be exposed to it whether it's vinyl or paint, that can still be a problem.
ROMANS: Ed, is it a problem? I hear again and again from the toy industry that the majority of toys on store selves are safe. Consumer Reports took a look at this Fisher Price, very popular medical doctor kit, found this red cuff on it that had some lead exposure. The company is not recalling that product. Illinois is demanding the product come off the shelves in Illinois. Do we have a situation where company standards, legal standards and consumer group standards might be completely different?
ED MIERZWINSKI, U.S. PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GROUP: You're absolutely right. Consumer groups in state of Illinois and other progressive states are trying to pass the strongest laws to get the most lead out of the toys, jewelry and vinyl. Consumer Product Safety Commission says it's not a big deal and they are both lobbying congress to weaken proposed legislation. Congress deserves a lump of coal if it doesn't get all of the lead out.
ROMANS: Lori, how much of this problem is as a result of American trade policies? How did that feed into this whole thing?
LORI WALLACH, GLOBAL TRADE WATCH: Well, I'm not surprised that the companies did not want to show up. Because a large part of this is the U.S. toy company's decision to relocate their production overseas to countries that have no safety standards in a dismal working conditions for dollar a day wages where the companies themselves are not sure what's being done with the product that's come back and sold to U.S. kids. On top of that, we have -- we have toy safety laws from 1974, when 84 percent of toys were manufactured in the U.S. and now we have a situation where 80 percent of toys are coming from China alone, and our domestic laws are not in touch with this race to the bottom production reality because of these trade agreements.
ROMANS: I'm going to show this product that an environmental group tested and found 2,000 parts per million of lead. It's a Hannah Montana little handbag. Urvashi, there's a lot of things that folks are buying for the holiday season because their kids want it. It's not recalled by the way. What are parents supposed to do when we can pull something off store shelves and it have tested, and it's not something that you want to take home and then frankly you want to wash your hands after you've handled it?
RANGAN: What we've learned here is you don't know what has led on it. You can go into the stores, you can think a piece of a plastic painted toy is a problem. In this case, a Hannah Montana bag. In their tests that the ecology center also did in the report today, even a pair of shoes that were made out of PVC actually had lead in it. The problem is unfortunately pervasive. Unless the government steps up to the plate, it's going to continue.
ROMANS: Urvashi, one of your colleagues, Don Mays, told me that said he's going to be a good year for puppies, books -- I don't know if it's a good year for the puppies. I don't know. I mean what are you supposed to do. Ed, the day after Christmas, they were out there buying -- or, day after thanksgiving, sorry.
MIERZWINSKI: I think people should be buying phone cards and making long distance call to Washington to tell Congress to get the job done. It's scientifically evident that the toys that contain lead, the vinyl, everything else that contains lead can be cleaned up. The companies simply don't want to do it or be held liable. They like their sloppy practices. Maybe when people don't buy any toys this year, that will make a difference.
ROMANS: So the survey, this ecology center survey found that 1200 toys tested, 35 percent of them contained lead. 28 percent had no trace of lead or other harmful chemicals. The Consumer Products Safety Commission is the agency that's supposed to protect us from this. They're supposed to have laws in effect. Is the fact that there are such high percentages a product of the fact that we don't have laws to make it illegal to have these levels of lead, Lori?
WALLACH: That's certainly part of the problem. What Ed said is exactly right. We need to get with Congress to change the law. So that in fact, the arm cuff for the blood pressure toy would be recalled because it has high lead level. Right now, only lead paint is banned. It's crazy. But with so many of our toys being produced overseas because of rates to the bottom globalization, there's also a whole issue of what actually gets inspected at the border and whether it meets standards. What I've been telling my friends and family is get on the web and Google buy America toxic free. There's a whole set actually of American-made toys that are niche markets from the past but they're getting swamped with orders this year that explicitly go for nontoxic parts and are tested. In fact, they hope the friends at Consumers Union would test those toys. But that's one approach to avoid, both, supporting the globalization that's undermined our jobs, and making sure your toys are safer.
ROMANS: All right, everybody, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much. I want to point out, watch out for the small parts. Magnets are design flaws. It's not all lead problems. Let me thank everybody. Ed, thank you so much. Urvashi Rangan here in the studio, and Lori Wallach. Thank you all.
Parents can find the full consumer action guide to toxic chemicals and toys on the web site www.healthytoys.org. The link can also be found on our website, LouDobbs.com.
Coming up, taking on the issue of god and politics, religion on the campaign trail. My guests look at the clash of church and state and whether the religion in the White House even matters.
Losing millions of jobs and that means losing an American legacy. We'll have a special report. All of that and more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney put his faith in the American voter on the line today as he described his faith in god. In a speech at the George Bush Library in Texas, Romney said he does not define his candidacy by his religion.
(BEGIN VIDE CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I'm fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A president must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: But Romney also said some have taken the notion of separation of church and state well beyond its original meaning. Joining me now on god and politics Reverend Barry Lynn, executive director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State and Professor Alan Wolfe director of the Bossy Center for Religion and American Public Life at Boston College. Gentlemen, welcome to the program.
Let me start with you, Professor Wolfe, and ask you what is your response to this speech. Why did he do it and did he accomplish what he set out to do?
PROF. ALAN WOLFE, BOSTON COLLEGE: Well, he didn't want to do it. That's pretty clear. He had to do it because of the growing threat of his candidacy of Mike Huckabee of a Baptist and an evangelical from central casting. He was on the defensive from the beginning. Given he was on the defensive, I think he did the best job he possibly could. He hit all of the evangelical themes. Listening to the talk, you would have thought he wasn't a Mormon. You would have thought he was an evangelical Christian. He only mentioned Mormon once.
ROMANS: He mentioned the word Mormon once. He made references to Catholics, to Pentecostals, to Lutherans, to Jews, to Muslims. He said he didn't think that the White House should be chosen because of their religion and he seemed to really focus on values that were common among Christian religions, rather than differences. Is that right, Reverend Lynn?
REV. BARRY LYNN, AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH & STATE: He certainly tried to do that but left out the huge portion of American electorate and that is people who don't have a religious belief system at all. It was quite odd. He said, for example, that there shouldn't be a religious test for public office. That was good but then sadly he seemed to establish a religious test for being a good citizen and that is you had to be somehow religious. So he really wasn't speaking to 20 million Americans who choose not to follow any spiritual path.
And the other interesting thing, and I think he was wise in a sense to not talk about all of the tenants of Mormonism, on the other hand he did say he believes in Jesus Christ. He's the son of god. He's savior of man kind. He certainly got very theological within the same minute he was saying he wasn't going to explain his religion. I think a lot of people are frankly still confused about what he believes about religion.
ROMANS: Reverend Lynn, one thing that he might - I guess a political cynic might say he wasn't trying to address the 20 million who don't believe. He was trying to address people in South Carolina, and people in Iowa and looking more toward -- is that cynical to say?
LYNN: No, it's not cynical at all. I think that's Alan's point and it's a good one. But the other thing he did, that I find quite odd, he talked about the constitution and history of this country and religious liberty of this country without mentioning Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, the real architects of that principle and then he went even further into a, shall we say peculiar sense of American history by saying that the courts are based on religious faith. That's not good constitutional law. That's not good American history. He left a lot of us knowing vastly more about his views on the constitution than we did yesterday but many people I think are shaking their heads wondering from what constitution from what country he's talking about.
ROMANS: Professor Wolfe, does it matter, he says he's an American running for the oval office. Does it matter what the religion of the person in the oval office beyond politicking in this early stage? He's not a nominee yet.
WOLFE: It doesn't matter to me but it matters to voters in the republican primaries. Governor Romney was absolutely right to say that we have Article 6 of the U.S. constitution which forbids religious test for office. Unfortunately, his party doesn't pose a religious test on the candidate and the constitution can't do anything about that. So he has to appeal to religious people in order to get the nomination. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of religious people in the Republican Party he wants to appeal to, they like Mitt Romney's talk about religion, they happen to not like his religion. And so every time he talks about religion but not his own religion, it creates this odd dissonance that Barry Lynn is absolutely right to focus on. It was a very dissonant speech. It was like hey, take my religion seriously but don't ask me a single question about it because I won't answer it.
ROMANS: What about the timing of this, gentlemen? I mean this is 48 years after the JFK speech and there's all of these parallels between the two of them, 90 miles apart they happened and almost 50 years. Some would say it doesn't matter anymore, but should we even be drawing that parallel again?
LYNN: I must say I've only seen John F. Kennedy's speech. This speech was no John F. Kennedy speech. This had a very clear, almost political bantering tone to it and it didn't directly address the issues that are, unfortunately on the mines of a lot of voters, what does it mean to be a Mormon. I wish we could get to a point of listening to Senator Bill Bradley from New Jersey, when he was running for the presidency. He would be asked about his religion. He said my religion is so personal I don't want to discuss it in a campaign season. I wish they would get to that level. Say I have faith, and it's private and we accept that. Then we wouldn't go through a shirr charade of having frankly an address as confusing as the one that Mitt Romney gave today.
ROMANS: Professor Wolfe, you mentioned Mike Huckabee is the Iowa polls. He's rising in the Iowa polls. His television ads in Iowa call him the Christian leader. You point out that Romney mentioned his belief in Jesus Christ as our savior. People are playing their Christian credentials or religious credentials here in the republican race.
WOLFE: Mike Huckabee has a reputation of being a really nice guy. I saw that commercial he gave about being a Christian leader. Can I use an impolite term? I thought Mike Huckabee was a bigot. I thought he was appealing to anti-Mormon prejudice. I think any evangelical that saw Huckabee's ad, while he never mentioned Mormon ice many, that's what he was driving at.
ROMANS: What it anti-Mormonism or was it pro evangelical?
WOLFE: It was anti-Mormon. The problem is, if you let religion out of the bag the way Governor Romney suggests. The next step is sectarianism. In this country, I hope, it would never amount to the warfare that it was in Europe. It's very, very unpleasant when these things happen. We'll not get these things healed until as Barry Lynn correctly suggest, we start treating religion as something important to people but not necessarily important to our politics, not this way.
ROMANS: On the warfare front, I will say that he did denounce radical Islam and Jihadists and said that's religion going too far, that religion should be something for people, for Americans but not something to be imposed or imposed on anyone else. I'll let you give the last thought on the Romney speech.
LYNN: I do think that it is important that Americans understand that the real issues in any campaign, including for the residency, is to find out what people's values are, find out what their policies are based on those values but not inquire about the source of their volume values. It doesn't matter what someone's favorite bible verse is or that we now know that Rudy Giuliani does not believe Jonah was really swallowed by a big fish. I mean we don't need to know that in order to pick the best people on the most important issues facing the country from healthcare to immigration, the national defense and the defense of our courts.
ROMANS: All right. Thank you very much. Professor Alan Wolfe. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us for your insight into that today.
Coming up, millions of American jobs shifting offshore. Millions more to go. We'll have a special report and licenses to drive for illegal aliens and illegal visitors. All of that and more when we come back.
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ROMANS: The future for American factory workers continues to dim as millions of jobs move to other countries. The government expects this country to keep losing manufacturing jobs because American companies are shifting their manufacturing base away from U.S. soil. Bill Tucker reports.
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BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There was a time when more than 60 percent of people in America worked in manufacturing. Jobs were good. They paid well and they allowed working class Americans to enter the middle class. Today, fewer people work in manufacturing at the United States than any time since June of 1950. Now, only 12 percent earn their paychecks in the manufacturing sector. Its future is dwindling. Since 2000, we've lost more than 3 million manufacturing jobs. In the next eight we'll lose another 1.5 million according to estimates by the Bureau of Labor Statistics but those losses don't tell even half of the story.
SCOTT PAUL, AMERICAN ALLIANCE FOR MANUFACTURING: Their jobs support four or five other jobs in the economy. They have a great multiplier effect. The fact is these retail jobs don't have that kind of multiplier effect. We'll see fewer opportunities down the road for young people or for people who don't have college degrees.
TUCKER: Almost 9 percent of our scientists are employed in the manufacturing sector. The report is nearly twice as large as the rest of the economy. Beyond the ripple effect, there's the financial question of what happens to the wealth of the country which moves its manufacturing overseas, driving America to rack up massive trade deficits.
LLOYD WOOD, AMER. MFG. TRADE ACTION COALITION: What are the foreigners going to do with the trade surpluses like the Chinese and their $1.4 trillion? They are going to turn around and buy up U.S. assets and take profit streams and send them back home to the market.
TUCKER: Then it's not just jobs but wealth of the country being exported.
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TUCKER: Some people see that as a China problem or Indian problem. Trade policy critics say, and this is not a blame game. America needs to get its own house in order. So that we understand its importance to our country's future.
ROMANS: So many people have written off the industrial base, though. They say it's so last century, that now we're a service economy.
TUCKER: I know it's interesting and students of history should go back and look. That was the original idea when this country started. Leave the manufacturing offshore. But we learned and Hamilton showed us, you can't be a nation state without an industrial base. It just doesn't happen.
ROMANS: All right, Bill Tucker. Thanks, Bill.
Up next the crisis caused by efforts of governments to give away illegal drivers licenses. Plus, one state reaches a deal with DHS to secure drivers licenses.
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ROMANS: The Department Of Homeland Security and the state of Arizona reached a deal to make drivers licenses more secure. Arizona will develop a new driver's license that validates both the identity and U.S. citizenship of its residents. U.S. and Canadian citizens need to show an enhanced drivers license or a government issued photo I.D. or proof of citizen ship to enter the United States. The new enhanced driver's license will also comply with the federal real I.D. law.
National security is one of the many reasons critics oppose drivers licenses for illegal aliens. Overlooked in the debate over these licenses, foreign drivers licenses. While many states struggle with issuing full-fledged licenses, foreign visitors already have full rights to drive on American roads.
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ROMANS: The United States is the signatory of the United Nations convention on road traffic that recognize driver's licenses for 100 other countries including Mexico. In some cases, an international driver's permit must accompany the valid foreign license. An international permit alone cannot be used as valid I.D. For tourists and legal residents, there are clear road rules.
CHRIS FARRELL, JUDICIAL WATCH: We grant rights to this person's driving for a period of three to six months. It's only those people who wish to violate the law by overstaying their visa who get in trouble and really the driver's license issue is secondary. The first problem is they've overstayed their visa or entered the country without proper inspection.
ROMANS: He said a foreign driver's license eventually expires and illegal aliens are not tourists. Many trying to establish residency. In New York, the governor tried to give drivers licenses to illegal aliens yet existing riles already say, "a valid driver license from another country is also valid in New York State. You do not need to apply for a New York State driver license unless you become a resident of the state." Maryland gives licenses to illegal aliens but Maryland law says a foreign driver's license is sufficient to drive on Maryland roads and an international driver's permit is not necessary there. In Oregon, a DMV spokesman says, a foreign license is required for tourists but anyone living in the state must have a state-issued license. Utah demands licenses or certificates of all residents, defined by the state anybody "making Utah their home who is gainfully employed."
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ROMANS: Seven states still give licenses to illegal aliens. Other states considering certificates for them, a document that permits driving but can't be used to register to vote, board an airplane or buy a gun. Some see that as a potential solution to this crisis. Others say certificates would just treat illegal aliens as second class citizens.
Now the results of tonight's poll, 98 percent of you say that the Department of Homeland Security five years after its creation is not fulfilling its job of securing our nation.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, good night from New York. A special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE" begins right now. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
