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American Morning
Omaha Mall Massacre; Bonnie and Clyde Couple Face Charges; Jack Bauer in Prison
Aired December 06, 2007 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you from Omaha, Nebraska. I'm John Roberts. We are live outside of the Westroads mall in Omaha. Omaha, a city numb, the morning after a shooter walked into the Von Maur department store behind me and committed mass murder. Police say 19-year-old Robert Hawkins had an assault rifle set up in the balcony of the department store and started picking off holiday shoppers one by one.
Today, brand new details about the person who pulled the trigger, what police found in his home, how he was kicked out by his parents, fired from his job, broke up with his girlfriend, and suicide note that said he wanted to go out in style. Eight people suffered fatal gunshot wounds before police arrived. When they got here, the shooter was already dead. Crowds were running in terror. Some hid in dressing rooms and covered their children, fearing they could be next, all while they were out for an afternoon of holiday shopping.
Some of those eyewitnesses shared their terrifying stories with us as we try to piece together what happened during that massacre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS (voice-over): The horror started to unfold just after 1:40 p.m., when a lone gunman took up a position on the third floor balcony of the Von Maur department store inside the Westroads mall. From his perch, the first shots rang out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounded like a nail gun.
ROBERTS: But in seconds, the initial confusion quickly turned to terror. The shocked holiday shoppers realized what was happening, panicked and ran for cover.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've seen at least four or five bodies brought out on gurneys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We didn't know if the guy was dead. He was still walking around shooting.
ROBERTS: Dozens of shots seemingly fired at random.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I looked back and then I saw the guy in the children's department. Big, tall guy, real tall, and he just stood there with his arm like this, and he aimed straight up in the air shooting, and then I turned and ran.
ROBERTS: Just minutes after the first bullets rang out, police stormed the mall.
SGT. TERESA NEGRON, OMAHA POLICE DEPT.: Other officers arrived, and they began to clear the mall, searching for a suspect.
ROBERTS: But the suspect was already dead. Police say 19-year- old Robert Hawkins took his own life, with the gun he used to kill eight innocent holiday shoppers. They say he left a suicide note behind saying, "Now, I'll be famous."
CHIEF ROBERT WARREN, OMAHA POLICE: The suspect was located and the weapon, an SKS assault rifle, was recovered.
ROBERTS: Police say they have no clear motive yet, for killings that defy explanation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're in such shock. It's hard to think, and I just kept hoping God would spare us, because that's --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: You could just imagine what they went through yesterday, what everybody fears and when nobody thinks will ever happen to them. We'll be talking to some of those people a little bit later on this morning. People like Jennifer Kramer, who's there shopping with her mother, had to hide out in a clothes rack in the men's department to stay away from the gunman, and as well, Jeff Schaffart who actually caught a bullet.
What caused Robert Hawkins to snap, take his own life and the lives of eight others? Our Ed Lavandera is in Bellevue, Nebraska. It's about 25 minutes away at the house where Hawkins lived. He joins me now with a deeper look on Hawkin's life and the circumstances that led up to this. And Ed, I always say, we just got another classic case of a troubled teen who wanted to go out with a big bang.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, John. Robert Hawkins lived in the house you see behind me. He had lived here with the family of a high school classmate, and it was here, where the first clue of how this would become a deadly day was found.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Just a few hours before the shooting rampage at the Omaha mall, Debora Kovac found a note from Robert Hawkins. It would turn out to be a suicide note.
DEBORA MARUCA KOVAC, HAWKINS LANDLORD: Basically, he just said how sorry he was for everything. He didn't want to be a burden to people, and he was a piece of (expletive) all his life and now he'll be famous.
LAVANDERA: Hawkins had moved in with Kovac's family a year and a half ago. She says he felt mistreated and rejected by everyone.
KOVAC: And it would seem like his whole life, he was kind like a pound puppy that nobody wanted. LAVANDERA: Kovac says Hawkins had a tense relationship with his family, that he'd been in and out of foster homes and had a history of fighting depression. But Kovac says he stopped taking depression medications because it made him feel weird.
KOVAC: When he first came and lived with us, he was in the fetal position and chewed his fingernails all the time and was unemployed and hopeless. After awhile, he got a job and came out of that.
LAVANDERA: Kovac says she thought Hawkins was doing better. A few months ago, he started working at a McDonald's, but on Wednesday he was fired from that job.
KOVAC: It might have been the straw that broke the camel's back because he just couldn't take much more rejection and defeat.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: Now, police investigators spent a great deal of time at this home last night and at the home of Robert Hawkins' mother, where they took away boxes and rifles. But Miss Kovac told us last night that she had no idea where Robert Hawkins had found the gun that was used in the mall shooting yesterday. But clearly, she paints an initial picture of a very troubled young man -- Robert.
ROBERTS: And is it true, Ed, that he telephoned her, that Hawkins telephoned her at about 1:00? That would be 42 minutes before the shooting and said, "I've left a note for you." Did she have an opportunity to read that note at that time, or did she wait until later?
LAVANDERA: The note was discovered several hours before, and then that phone call, was as you mentioned, 42 minutes before police say they received the initial 911 calls about the shooting at the mall and that was a frantic phone call. He apologized over and over, said he was sorry for something, and it was very cryptic, she said. And they had asked him and urged him to come on home, that they would talk about it and work through it, but that was the last they heard of -- John.
ROBERTS: Right. Ed Lavandera for us this morning out there in Bellevue, Nebraska. Ed, thanks.
Now, let's head back up to Kiran in New York for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning -- Kiran.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And we're following another top story that has wide-ranging implications for many people.
The White House is expected to announce a plan later today to give some homeowners that are threatened with foreclosure a little bit of breathing room. Now, their deal with the mortgage industry will help combat the growing number of foreclosures, but it remains to be seen just how many Americans facing sharp rate increases will actually benefit from this plan.
CNN personal finance editor Gerri Willis is here with us now to explain what to expect and how this plan would work.
GERRI WILLIS, PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: That's right, Kiran. Good to see you. You know, this is not going to help absolutely every subprime mortgage holder. Here is what's going to happen under the terms of this plan.
It will freeze rates for five years if you have a subprime mortgage. It will fast track some borrowers to new mortgages. You should know this is a voluntary plan by the industry and the White House, and "The Wall Street Journal" reporting that it's going to help people whose mortgages were originated between January 1, 2005 and mid 2007 -- Kiran.
CHETRY: There are a lot of people that are excluded from this so already the critics on both sides, some saying it just simply doesn't go far enough because it doesn't include enough people. And others saying there are some speculators perhaps that we shouldn't be bailing out.
WILLIS: Well, those people are not going to be helped. If you were an investor specifically, they're saying that this is not a group of people they want to help out. But here's what you have to have. If you want to be helped, you have to have a subprime loan whose rate is resetting. You have to be able to afford your current loan but not afford the loan once it resets.
You have no other financing options. These are the people who are going to be targeted. Let's talk about the people who won't be helped, and there are tens of thousands of people who won't be helped by this if you have a subprime mortgage and you can afford the reset. If you have a subprime mortgage and you could not afford the original teaser rate and if you have a prime mortgage that is an adjustable rate mortgage, you won't be helped either. So --
CHETRY: When you say reset, some of these mortgages, when that rate kicks in, the new rate, it's going to leave people unable to pay their payments.
WILLIS: That's right. You know, their payments --
CHETRY: Thirty percent higher?
WILLIS: Thirty percent higher. In some cases, the payments double. This is really tough for people out there. Especially right now with the economy as weak as it is, it's tough to afford that additional payment.
CHETRY: All right. Gerri, we're going to be talking with you throughout the morning as well, including, do you know if your mortgage is subprime? I mean, there are some people that don't -- they don't exactly what they have.
WILLIS: Absolutely.
CHETRY: All right. Thanks a lot.
WILLIS: Thank you.
CHETRY: Well, President Bush is expected to make some comments on the mortgage crisis live this afternoon at 1:40 Eastern from the Roosevelt Room of the White House, and CNN will have live coverage of that as well.
Also new this morning, the president is saying that Iran has a choice to make on nuclear activities, either "Come clean with the international community or remain on a path of isolation." The president made those comments on a campaign fund-raising trip in Omaha yesterday.
Monday is National Intelligence estimates said that Tehran stopped its nuclear weapons program in 2003, but the president says Iran still has not acknowledged the program and that he's demanding specific details. The report also says Iran is keeping its options open, continuing to enrich uranium. The United States is pushing for another round of even tougher sanctions.
And the military will be getting more control over private security firms in Iraq. Thanks to a new agreement between the Pentagon and the state department. That deal also says contractors will be held accountable for criminal acts under U.S. law. The agreement comes after a shooting incident in September involving guards with the firm Blackwater. Seventeen Iraqi civilians were killed. Blackwater says its guards were protecting diplomats under attack, but Iraqi investigators say that shooting was unprovoked.
Mitt Romney breaks his silence about his faith today. The Republican presidential hopeful will give a speech titled "Faith in America" on the campus of Texas A&M University. He's hoping to reassure voters who have questions or concerns about his Mormon religion. Romney will not be bringing up specific beliefs of Mormons, but rather what the religion has in common with other faiths.
And Space Shuttle Atlantis is on the launch pad. And in just about an hour, NASA will begin fueling up. Liftoff is scheduled for 4:31 Eastern time. NASA says there's only a 10 percent chance weather might be a problem. Atlantis say it's seven-member crew will be taking a European science lab to the international space station.
Still ahead, he's known for his role as a tough guy throwing bad guys in jail. But actor Kiefer Sutherland is in jail himself this morning. We're going to tell you why and for how long.
Also witness to a rampage. We're going to hear from a holiday shopper who took cover when the shooting began at that Omaha mall. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just still in shock. I can't believe it. I was shaking. I could hardly lift my legs. My knees locked, I didn't know what to do. I just ran. I just ran with everybody else. It was scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Terror, tears and confusion. Some incredible scenes from the Omaha mall shooting to show you now. Horrified holiday shoppers filing out of the store with their hands up. There's a lot of confusion. Many of them were hiding in closets, bathrooms, even behind clothing racks and crowding in changing rooms as the gunman opened fire. One witness says they saw bodies as they were filing out.
Here is a shot of an Omaha police officer guarding the door with a rifle strapped to his body. SWAT teams showed up about six minutes after the first shots were fired. The head of the Omaha Police Department says that President Bush's visit to the city that day resulted in a quicker and more organized police response. The president's plane left Omaha about 45 minutes before the shooting began. Officers were still nearby and were able to race to the mall.
Police do say that when they got there, the shooter was already dead. And here's a shot of an employee hugging her daughter after she witnessed that terrible rampage. She was inside the Von Maur store during the busy holiday rush, when the gunman started shooting. Terrified shoppers and workers ran to safety. Some of them, as we said, barricading themselves in dressing rooms.
Well, John Roberts is live outside of the mall in Omaha, Nebraska, as we're learning new detail this morning -- John.
ROBERTS: Hey, good morning again, Kiran. The trip to that mall became a matter of survival for Jennifer Kramer. She arrived with her mother just minutes before the shooting began. They then ran for cover. Jennifer joins me now to tell us more about her story. You were where at the time of the shooting?
JENNIFER KRAMER, ESCAPED MALL ATTACK: We were just coming off the escalator on to the second floor.
ROBERTS: Of the Von Maur department store you see behind us.
KRAMER: Yes. Yes. And at that point, I heard two shots and I looked to my mother and I said, "I think those are gunshots." And she, we had just stepped away from the escalator and she turned to walk back toward the atrium area and there's a glass railing. And she turned to go back there to look up and that's when I started hearing more gunshots and I grabbed her. I said, "We got to go." And we took off running to the back of the store.
ROBERTS: So what's that area like? This is the escalator area. And as we know from many department stores, it's sort of an open area, almost an atrium and it has glass balconies and railings looking down?
KRAMER: Correct.
ROBERTS: He was at the top?
(CROSSTALK)
KRAMER: He was -- he was apparently at the top of the third floor.
ROBERTS: So he started -- he had taken the high ground, shooting targets down below?
KRAMER: Well, from what I understand from what I've heard, the majority of the people that he shot were on the third floor. There was a guy on the second floor that was shot, and he was shot right at the top of the escalators right where we came off.
ROBERTS: Was that the fellow that was trying to call 911 on his cell phone at the time?
KRAMER: I believe so from what I've been hearing. We were not standing there at that time like I said. After about four shots, I grabbed my mom and I said we got to get out of here. Because she had -- like I said, went back and looked up. And I grabbed her and we went running back to the pants. I saw people running into the dressing rooms, and I didn't want to go into the dressing rooms because I didn't know if he would be coming down to look for people. I didn't want to get trapped in a dressing room.
So we ducked down behind some pants, and she said, "What are we going to do?" I said, "Get into the pants rack." And so, she went into one pants rack and I went into the other and I called 911.
ROBERTS: So we've seen those racks of suits.
KRAMER: They're the round ones.
ROBERTS: Oh, the round ones. So you got in the center of those?
KRAMER: Yes. Yes. So nobody could see us from the -- if someone was coming up, they couldn't see us through the pants.
ROBERTS: That's smart. Great idea to do that.
KRAMER: Yes. That's my sister -- my sister and I used to hide in pants racks all the time.
ROBERTS: You're kidding.
KRAMER: I don't --
ROBERTS: So when you were a kid and it just came back to you. You got on the cell phone, you called 911?
KRAMER: I called 911, and they've already heard that there have been shots fired, and they said police and fire were on the way. It seemed like a very long time. From what I understand, they were here immediately. It was awhile before they came up and were clearing us to run out.
You know, once the gunfire stopped, it was so eerie and quiet. You didn't know if he was walking around. You didn't know if he was reloading. And then when the cops finally did come in, you know, they kept -- they're just screaming. You know, "Get your hands up. Get your hands up." I didn't know if they were clearing people out. They were talking to the gunman, I didn't know what was going on.
ROBERTS: You know, if you made a list of all the places in America where you thought something like this would never happen, Omaha would be way up there, not on the top of the list.
KRAMER: Right.
ROBERTS: I mean, it's just so incredible. What's it going to do to this town. You know, at the holiday season, people go to the mall. And it's sort of the worst fear that people would have that somebody would decide to make a point.
KRAMER: Yes.
ROBERTS: You know, we've heard about terrorism, but here's a lone gunman doing it.
KRAMER: I was just saying to a friend, Omaha is a big small town. You don't go anywhere without knowing someone. Every time you walk in somewhere, you know someone. And I'm torn because I walked out of there and nine people didn't, and that's nine people that people aren't going to run into in this town, and that's not acceptable.
ROBERTS: God. I can't imagine what it would have been like to be in there in that situation, and I know you haven't been to sleep. Thank you very much for coming in.
KRAMER: Yes. Thank you.
ROBERTS: We really appreciate you sharing your story.
KRAMER: Thank you. Thank you.
ROBERTS: Now let's go back up to New York, and here's Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. John, thanks so much.
Well, a young Philadelphia couple accused of living the high life, using other people's money will appear in court today. Jocelyn Kirsch and her boyfriend, Edward Anderton, the so-called Bonnie and Clyde couple, face additional charges of theft and burglary. They've already been charged with crimes including identity theft, forgery and unlawful use of a computer.
Police say they found more than $17,000 in cash, dozens of credit cards, and keys to many of the apartments and mailboxes in the couple's apartment.
Joining me now is AMERICAN MORNING legal analyst Sunny Hostin with more on what -- now they've added these additional charges in, how much trouble are these two in? SUNNY HOSTIN, AMERICAN MORNING LEGAL ANALYST: They're in a lot of trouble. And what's troubling about this, these are educated, two educated, promising young people. One went -- my understanding is that one went to the University of Pennsylvania, an Ivy league school. The other one was at Drexler University. Their parents were professional physicians.
And so, you know, I think that it's shocking that they would do this. It was very cold. It was calculated. They had identify theft machines in their homes. I think really they're in a lot of trouble. They're looking at a lot of charges. We're looking at burglary, identity theft.
CHETRY: Right.
HOSTIN: Conspiracy, forgery, unlawful use of the computer. Some of these charges could be federal charges, and so they are in a lot of trouble.
CHETRY: The interesting thing is a lot of people are trying to figure out, why would they do this?
HOSTIN: Exactly.
CHETRY: They seem to be people who had everything. And then, you know, reports are trickling in from people in their past. You say, wait a minute. There's this one co-worker of Jocelyn who said, you know, she stole cell phones. This are tell tall tales.
HOSTIN: Sure.
CHETRY: Will any of that be brought into this, or do you think it's most likely will end in a plea?
HOSTIN: I think this is going to be a plea. I think her attorney, in particular, has indicated that she's looking for a plea. But if this were to go to trial, that is a possibility and this is the type of thing when you see this type of crime, you see the escalation. You see maybe someone stealing a cell phone, someone taking a little bit of money out of mom's purse. And then you see the escalation, a little bit of shoplifting and all the way to identity theft, fraud, conspiracy, forgery.
CHETRY: Turning now to some entertainment news. You know, actor Keifer Sutherland of the hit show "24" turned himself in to a Los Angeles lockup. There's a mugshot of him yesterday. He's going to begin serving a 48-day sentence for drunk driving.
We're hearing, though, at least some of the reports from various Web sites saying that he decided, I want to be in the Glendale city lockup, not county.
HOSTIN: Yes.
CHETRY: Do celebrities get preferential treatment in that way? If you and I got in trouble for that, could we say where we wanted to serve?
HOSTIN: Usually not. I think California does have this sort of interesting thing going on because a lot of celebrities live there. Typically when you're arrested for DUI and you're convicted, you at least serve six months in jail. So this is not the first that he's been arrested for this. This is the second time. And by all reports, he's only going to serve 48 days.
It really kind of burns me up as a prosecutor to know that people sometimes do get preferential treatment, and driving while intoxicated is very serious. We know that people die this way. It really is a bit surprising sometimes when you hear about that.
CHETRY: Yes. Sunny, it's great to see you. We'll talk to you a little bit later in the hour as well.
HOSTIN: Thanks.
CHETRY: By the way, it's a rumor that won't die. This fake claims about Barack Obama's religion. We talked about this yesterday. They've been debunked, but they're still out there. Well, now, a Hillary Clinton staffer is without a job because of it. We'll explain.
Also, the man accused of taking hostages at Clinton's New Hampshire campaign office talks to CNN, a jailhouse interview telling why he did what he did. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: A dire situation in the pacific northwest this morning. All that extreme weather and one homeowner's house literally on edge this morning. It's your "Hot Shot." This photo was sent to us this morning by Joe Ianaroni (ph) of Bering (ph) Washington.
The devastating rains earlier this week caused a landslide. Look at just how close his house is literally on the edge of where the earth has fallen away there. It's in danger of tumbling right off the side of a hill, he says. That slide, meanwhile, buried another home. So far, five deaths have been reported in the wake of these heavy rains and severe weather out in the pacific northwest.
By the way, if you have a hot shot, send it to us. The address amhotshots@CNN.com, include your name, where you're from, a little bit about the picture or video and please make sure the image is yours.
Twenty-four minutes past the hour now. Much of the pacific northwest is still under water. The region facing a massive cleanup effort. The governor of Washington State saying those storms have caused billions of dollars in damages, and thousands are dealing with power outages. Highways still closed by the flooding and mudslides.
Our Rob Marciano is at our weather update desk. And boy, when you see the shot that Joe sent from us his house, just how much the earth has fallen way and how close his house is to being lost, it's really unbelievable. ROB MARCIANO, METEOROLOGIST: It is. I mean, that's some pretty tough terrain there. And with all of the rainfall they've gotten in that short period of time, boy, this is worse than any storm that we've seen. Even a hurricane make landfall in the last couple of years. So there you go. That is certainly an ominous sight.
Take a look at some of these rainfall totals with this storm, upwards and over a foot. And when you're talking about something that's not along the Gulf Coast, it can't tap that tropical moisture, that's certainly is impressive. Guess what? It's raining again this morning. From Seattle all the way out of Portland, this is where we saw I-5 closed off. That's where there's still flooding occurring.
Most of this rain was supposed to be south into northern California where we're seeing a good chunk of it now. I do think it will shift that way and take some of the brunt of the precip off of Oregon and Washington. But it will slam the sierras from one to two feet of snow.
Winter storm warnings in effect for Tahoe, all the way south to Mammoth Lakes. And then, this storm is going to push into the waters of Utah because you want a three, two feet of snow expected there and in through Omaha and Des Moines.
John Roberts, into your area, Omaha. You're under a winter weather advisory. You could you see three to five inches of snowfall beginning later on today. Back over to you. Stay warm.
ROBERTS: Rob, they said that we're going to get it by daybreak today. It hasn't come yet, but I'll tell you, it is really cold here in Nebraska today.
For five months, we have been bringing you stories of real life heroes. Tonight, we're going to honor the best of the best on CNN Heroes, an all-star tribute.
Anderson Cooper and Christiane Amanpour will host, and stars like Mary J. Blige, Tyra Banks and Sheryl Crow will be there performing and also to present awards. That's tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. And starting at 7:00, you can go to CNN.com for all the behind-the-scenes red carpet coverage with our Alina Cho.
Road players, duct tape and a suicidal tendency. That's what the man accused of taking hostages at a Hillary Clinton campaign office last Friday says he had. Coming up, Leeland Eisenberg in his own words.
Plus, continuing coverage of the mall massacre live here in Omaha. What was going inside the gunman's head, the troubled teen who lost his home, his girlfriend, and his job, before he went on a bloody killing spree? I'll talk to one of his friends when AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan, who works in the same floor I do, she says she walked over to the center of the atrium and looked like a customer walked up alongside her, and the shooter reached over the top of the third floor and just shot the man. And she was right there and as she looked, he was shot in the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: A look live this morning of the Von Maur Department Store here at the West Roads Shopping Center, just on the outskirts of Omaha, Nebraska, scene of yesterday's tragic shooting. Welcome back to special coverage on this AMERICAN MORNING. It is Thursday, December 6th from Omaha. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kiran Chetry here in New York. We're going to have much more on the new information out today about that shooting, and also, John, we're going to be talking a little bit about this mortgage deal taking place between the Bush administration and banks. Will it really help people that are facing a crisis right now?
ROBERTS: Very important stuff for thousands and thousands of people who find themselves in a real crunch right now. Let's get you caught up on the latest here with this mall shooting, the day after a deadly rampage by a 19-year-old gunman. We're learning more about the shooter. Robert Hawkins killed eight people, wounded five others from an Omaha department store balcony before killing himself. Police say the shootings appear to be premeditated but they were also very random.
He left a suicide note behind, predicting that the massacre would make him famous. We're going to be talking with one of his friends just minutes from now on AMERICAN MORNING to get a little more of an idea of what was behind all of this yesterday. And let's get back to Kiran in New York. She's got a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning.
Kiran?
CHETRY: Well, lifeline is on the way, John, for the financially strap homeowner if you qualify, and that is a big if. We're going to talk about that in a moment but let's explain what it is. The Bush administration is expected to announce a deal today with the mortgage industry that would put rates on hold for some subprime mortgage holders. Certain interest rates for certain mortgages would be frozen for five years in an effort to stem the rising tide of foreclosures. Not everyone though with adjustable rate mortgages will be covered.
In fact, even before the plan has been announced there were critics saying it doesn't do enough. President Bush is expected to make comments on the mortgage crisis live this afternoon at 1:40 from the Roosevelt Room at the White House. Our Ali Velshi has been covering this for months now and all the talk today, Ali, really as you're "Minding Your Business" is this deal between the mortgage industry and also more of who doesn't qualify. ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Who doesn't qualify. For those of you out there waiting to hear this news, the best estimate we have from Barclay's says about 12 percent of all subprime borrowers will get relief under this mortgage freeze plan and that amounts to almost 250,000 people. Now, the lenders, the banks don't love this idea. They've been cajoled into it by the White House. But it's probably a good business decision. Because, the banks will earn some interest rather than no interest and they won't get stuck with 250,000 foreclosed homes.
Now, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton says the plan doesn't go far enough. She's calling for a 90-day moratorium on all foreclosures and a five-year freeze on adjustable mortgage rates which are held by people who live in their homes. Republican presidential candidates John McCain echoes the concern that many people have, that this is a reward for people who made bad decisions. No one forced anyone in this country to buy a house or to take a mortgage, and on the flipside, some borrowers were misled about the possibility of interest rates going up and home prices going down and some property estimators may have been pushed by lenders into providing valuations that were too high.
Now, for those of you home owners who plan ahead and didn't get in over your head, this bailout could be frustrating. Many people who are struggling under higher interest rates are not going to get any relief. That group includes borrowers who have already missed payments, those who can afford an interest rate increase, those who don't have jobs and those whose mortgages are bigger than the value of their homes. So, there's a lot to find out about this plan. It will be unveiled through the course of the day and we'll be covering it, but there are a lot of people who won't be covered by it.
CHETRY: You know, and it brings us to our quick vote question this morning about it. The government, as we said, now offering some breathing room for a very small number of home owners at risk of foreclosure. What do you think about the plan, do you think it's a step in the right direction that it doesn't go far enough, that it's just about right, as far as it should go or do you think it's going too far, meaning, as you said, there are some who, perhaps, took some risks here and took some gambles and should text...
VELSHI: Should the government be involved in bailing them out?
CHETRY: We're going to have the first tally of votes coming up a little bit later in the hour, so we'd like to you weigh in and will check in with you throughout the morning. Thanks, Ali.
Well, a rare diplomatic move between the U.S. and South Korea this morning. President Bush sending a personal letter to North Korea's Kim Jong-Il. The U.S. nuclear envoy delivering this letter during a trip to talk about the country's progress in ending its nuclear program. There's no word on what's this letter said and there's been no comment yet from the White House.
Also this morning, we're getting a better look into the mind of Leeland Eisenberg. He is the man accused of taking six hostages at Hillary Clinton's campaign office in Rochester, New Hampshire, last Friday. CNN's Jason Carroll sat down with Eisenberg behind bars and asked the man what he was hoping to accomplish. Eisenberg answered pretty calmly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEELAND EISENBERG, ACCUSED HOSTAGE TAKER: I wanted to sacrifice myself for the sake of mental illness and the discussion in this country about mental illness. Had I walked into a Dunkin' Donuts it wouldn't have gotten the kind of national discussion and precedent that it deserves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Eisenberg had says he wanted to die. He said he hoped police would believe his fake bomb was real. He says it took little time to piece it all together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EISENBERG: It all took about an hour to prepare for. I honestly did. I took a cab, I went and got the flares, the duct tape, the electrical tape. I took some wire and I made it look like a bomb. I strapped it to my waist, whatever you want to call it. I put a sweater on and someone asked me if they could help me and I lifted up my shirt and I said, "Yes, you can get off that phone." Everybody in the back room, get down and lay on the floor.
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CHETRY: Well, Eisenberg says he hears voices. He's being held on $500,000 bond. A judge has ordered a psychiatric evaluation.
A staffer with Hillary Clinton's campaign has resigned after forwarding an e-mail hoax about her rival, Barack Obama. The e-mail claims that Obama is a Muslim who wants to destroy America by being elected president. The Illinois senator is a Christian. Judy Rose, a Clinton volunteer in Iowa forwarded the hoax to eight people. A Democratic Party official man posted a note about the forward on a liberal blog. The Clinton campaign then asked Rose to quit.
Republican Mitt Romney will speak to American voters today putting not just himself but his religion in the spotlight. A lot of people are going to be paying very close attention as Romney addresses the subject of his Mormon faith. And we're getting some excerpts from that address right now. Dana Bash is at the George Bush Presidential Library in College Station, Texas and that's where Romney will be speaking a bit later today.
Good morning, Dana. First of all, as we just said, there were some excerpts out this morning. What are we expecting to hear, how far are we expecting Romney to go as he talks about faith in America.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, just looking at these excerpts, they really back up what we are told from the Romney campaign. But this is going to be a speech more about what makes Mitt Romney tick, than how he prays as a Mormon. They understand that there's a lot of people see Mormonism as serious, they do it with skepticism but what Mitt Romney's goal appears to be, he is to say, I'm just like you. I share your values. And I'll read you an excerpt to that effect.
He is going to say, "It is important to recognize that while differences in theology exist between the churches in America, we share a common creed of moral convictions and where the affairs of our nation are concerned, it's usually a sound rule to focus on the latter, on the great moral principles that earned us all on a common course." And now, he also in this speech, at least in the excerpts that we got is pretty explicit in saying that some may want him and others to be explicit about their religion.
He says that, essentially that flies in the face of what the founding fathers wanted when they said there should be a separation between a church and state. Now, this obviously is something that the Romney campaign wants to be, a moment for him in this campaign. You know that by seeing what they have been doing leading up to this. They even released a photo, Kiran, of Romney practicing, that's something we generally see for state of the union or a big speech at the White House. That is not an accident that that is what the Romney campaign is making this out with to be, with that photo, with these excerpts. They want him to really have this time to connect personally and to make news essentially, to make it very clear about who he is and what he believes, not necessarily the doctrine of Mormonism.
CHETRY: Oh, it will be interesting and certainly, a lot of people will be watching that for sure. It's going to be all about Romney today. Thanks so much, Dana.
BASH: Thank you.
CHETRY: And now back to our breaking story this morning. John Roberts live in Omaha, Nebraska, the scene of that deadly mall shooting rampage.
John?
ROBERTS: Kiran, thanks very much. We're back live here in Omaha, Nebraska, this morning, after a shooter went on a rampage inside the shopping mall behind me, killing eight people and then killed himself. Police have identified him as 19-year-old Robert Hawkins, who left a suicide note behind saying "Now I'll be famous." Joining me now live is Shawn Saunders, he is a long time friend of the shooter. When did you and Robert Hawkins, Sean, first meet?
SHAWN SAUNDERS, SHOOTER'S FRIEND: About two and a half years ago through the family he was living with.
ROBERTS: This is the Maruca-Kovac?
SAUNDERS: Yes.
ROBERTS: What was his story? How did he come to live with them? We learned that his parents threw him out of the house. Do you know what that was all about?
SAUNDERS: I never really poked and prodded too much into his personal life, I just didn't think it was my business. I just know that, you know, Deb was a good lady, and she's kind of saw he had nowhere to go, and you know, opened up her house to him, gave him a place to stay.
ROBERTS: She described him as a lost puppy that nobody wanted. How did he strike you?
SAUNDERS: He just, he always kind of, you know, when I knew him, I hung out with him a lot. He was always you know, kind of a lot like me, he's a fun-loving person. You know, trying to have fun and goof around, like any one in high school, a teenager would do you know. I mean, it never really strike me as , you know, a lost puppy really. I never thought, you know, I knew he was like depressed about the whole home situation. Everyone wants to be with their parents but I didn't think it got to him that much.
ROBERTS: How depressed was he?
SAUNDERS: I'm not sure to the level of depression. I just know, he was on antidepressants for the last couple of months and I guess it was getting worse over time with the loss of his job and I guess he had issues going on with a girlfriend at the time.
ROBERTS: Did he ever strike you as a person who was capable of doing something like he did yesterday?
SAUNDERS: No, no way. That's why I was so shocked when I heard about it. Like, he's a good guy, you know, a lot like me and I just never thought he'd do something like that. He was the one guy, you know, if people would be getting into a fight, he'd be the one to try to break it up.
ROBERTS: Really?
SAUNDERS: Yes, if we had arguments amongst our friends or groups, you know, he was kind of like, the calm, cool and collected one.
ROBERTS: So, let's say, he was the peacemaker, not giving in to violence.
SAUNDERS: Yes.
ROBERTS: However, you were telling me before we came on here, that when the news of the shooting started to break, people in your high school were talking about it.
SAUNDERS: There was a few of us. You know, I go to different school than he did and only a few who is in my school really knew him. And I happened to be with another person in the class, at that time, that knew him and he came over, you know, to my desk quietly, you know, were kind of quietly, were on the computer and there's something going on in the news right now. A shooting at the mall and I'm pretty sure it's Robby. And that's before the cops even knew who it was, but you know, he was getting text messages from people that...
ROBERTS: Why did he say he thought it was him?
SAUNDERS: He got a text that said it was him. The people he live with, Craig Kovac, I guest when they found, no, I guess he got a text from Craig or something, and it indicated it was him and I didn't believe it at first. And we turned the news on; I thought, you know, a high school rumor or someone's messing with me. And we got on the news website and they had their live feed on the website and you know...
ROBERTS: Did you ever know that he owned a weapon.
SAUNDERS: You know, I knew they went hunting from time to time, like hunting rifles and shotguns but, you know, it's Nebraska. You know, everyone's got a rifle or shotgun somewhere in the house.
ROBERTS: So, what are you thinking about this whole thing today? You knew this guy for two and a half years. You didn't hang out with him much in the last few months, but here is a guy you thought you knew and suddenly he becomes a guy you never knew.
SAUNDERS: Like I said, I was just kind of shocked. It's still weird that, you know, this is how he acted. I never saw him doing something like that and it's still hard to imagine, the guy that I knew, used to hang out with, you know, is capable of something like this.
ROBERTS: Wow, sure it must be. Shawn Saunders, thanks very much for joining us this morning and talk about that.
SAUNDERS: No problem.
ROBERTS: Good to see you.
Terrifying images from inside the shopping mall after a gunman picked off holiday shoppers just 20 days before Christmas. Our I- reporters were there, capturing all of the chaos. We're going to share with you what they sent us, coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just shock. It's hard to think and I just kept hoping God would spare us, because that's -- the rosary in my hand.
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CHETRY: We want to show you a picture right now. Just to let you know visually how bad things have been out west when it comes to the heavy rains they've gotten. This is from Burien, Washington and there you can see part of the home of one of our viewers. Literally, the entire side of that hill washed away, as his home teeters right on the edge. Rob Marciano has been following the weather out there in Washington. And what did you say, I think you said that in one day, they broke some of the totals they usually see in a year?
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ROBERTS: 11 minutes to the top of the hour. Chaos at the busy department store behind me. Holiday shoppers running for their lives as a gunman opened fire. Many of you sent us pictures as it happened. Your I-reports next on AMERICAN MORNING.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of the sudden I heard this poof, bang, bang, bang, and sounded like someone shooting fireworks. Well, I knew enough to know that that wasn't fireworks. It was probably some, you know, its almost like you don't believe it's happening.
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ROBERTS: 53 minutes after the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING and shots live this morning from Omaha, Nebraska of the Von Maur Department Store. The scene of yesterday's deadly mall rampage by a 19-year-old gunman. We're learning more about the shooter this morning. Robert Hawkins killed eight people, wounded five others, from an Omaha Department Store balcony. He was up on the third floor balcony according to eyewitnesses and was shooting down at a lot of his victims. There are also many victims on the third floor, there along with him.
Police say that the shootings appear to be premeditated, but the people that he chose to shoot very random. He left a suicide note behind predicting that the massacre would quote "Make him famous." Police say he was dead before they got there just six minutes later. We spoke to an eyewitness who was still in shock earlier on AMERICAN MORNING.
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JENNIFER KRAMER, EYEWITNESS: Omaha was a big small town. You don't go anywhere without knowing someone. Every time you walk in somewhere, you know someone. And I'm torn because I walked out of there and nine people didn't, and that's nine people that you're not going to run into in this town and that's not acceptable.
ROBERTS: We'll have the very latest live here in Omaha throughout the next two hours of AMERICAN MORNING. We're going to talk with one fellow who was one of his victims. He was shot in the arm. He survived, obviously. He's not doing too badly and we'll have him a little bit later on, on AMERICAN MORNING to talk with us more. But right now, let's go back up to New York and here's Kiran.
CHETRY: You know, one of the amazing parts of this, John, is that people were, as they were holed up in various places, were using their cell phones, trying to make calls to loved ones and family members, so as terror was breaking out in this mall, I-reporters were there capturing images and making these calls. Our Veronica De La Cruz is tracking what she found online. Good morning. VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you. Lots of information from our I-reporters, more information on the shooter who said, "I wanted to go out in style." We've been monitoring our affiliate KATV's website. We found an e-mail from someone who claims to have known Robert Hawkins. It reads, "I went to school for seven years in Hawkins. And he seemed to be a suicidal kid. During school, he would talk about killing or something along those lines." So, that is a very different account from what we just heard from Sean Saunders who spoke to John a second ago.
Also, at KATV's website, I-witness account images that capture the fear. Some, you probably haven't seen before. These witnesses describing hearing the popping, and seeing bodies and blood and another explains, how she was taken into a holding room in an old navy store while the mall was locked down.
And Kiran, one of our eye reporters shot this video while she and others were being escorted out of the mall. You see them right here, walking down the elevator, and then you can see as they turn the corners, police with their guns drawn at every corner and now at least nine (INAUDIBLE) had popped up for the victims of the shooting.
Here's on of them, it's called "In Memory, The Von Maur Shooting, Want for a Safer Omaha." When I first came across this page yesterday, there were about 50 members. At last check, there were almost 300, stands on around 262, and a lot of the comments read the same. Here's one that says, this is Omaha's 911. We thought of our town as a peaceful town in which nothing like this ever can happen. And then a lot of the other discussion on how to end violence of this nature. There's also information on a prayer service being held tonight. So, Kiran, we're going to continue to monitor the web and see what else we come up with. But there's a lot out there. Of course the blogs, Facebook pages and so on and so forth are concerns.
CHETRY: Thanks, Veronica.
Still ahead. Chilling news for air travelers topping your "Quick Hits" now. Congressional investigators sounding the alarm about the danger of airplanes running into each other, not in the air but on the ground. They say, there were 370 near collisions in the past year, and the report blames faltering federal leadership, as well as malfunctioning technology and overworked air traffic controllers.
Still ahead, you've heard the risk of childhood obesity but what about the continuing risks as those children grow. Our Sanjay Gupta has the results of a startling new study in our next hour. The next hour of AMERICAN MORNING starts right now.
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CHETRY: Line of fire.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I looked at my mom, I said we've got to get out of here. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: What trigger the teen gunman to shoot up a department store full of holiday shoppers?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just kept hoping God would spare us.
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CHETRY: This morning, what we learning about the gunman from the woman who took him in.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every where he turned he got rejection.
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CHETRY: Plus, how shopper survived.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel exceedingly lucky and fortunate to have made it through today.
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CHETRY: And whether you can feel secure at your mall.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To make it absolutely totally safe, it's almost impossible unless you want to make it into an armed camp.
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CHETRY: Live from Omaha and New York on this special edition of AMERICAN MORNING.
And welcome, It's Thursday, December 6th, I'm Kiran Chetry.
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