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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Presidential Frontrunners Lose Ground in Latest Polls
Aired December 10, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf.
Tonight stunning news, CNN poll numbers on the race for the White House, the front-runners are losing ground. One Republican candidate has in fact quadrupled his support over the past two months. We'll have all of that for you, all of the day's news and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, December 10. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. The race for the Republican presidential nomination tonight appears to be wide open. A new CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll shows Mike Huckabee is in a statistical dead heat nationally with front runner Rudy Giuliani. Among Democratic Party candidates, Senator Barack Obama is closing the gap with leader Senator Hillary Clinton. The poll showing Obama now has 30 percent of voter support nationally for the first time since July.
Bill Schneider reports now from Des Moines, Iowa, a critical battleground state -- Bill.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Lou, the message of this poll is frontrunners beware, somebody is gaining on you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Big shake up in the Republican race. Last month, Rudy Giuliani was the clear Republican front runner, Fred Thompson, second, John McCain, third. But look at the race now.
Mike Huckabee is breathing down Giuliani's neck, a statistical dead heat. Huckabee support has more than doubled in the last month. Mitt Romney is now running third. He too has picked up support, looks like his speech on faith and politics just before this poll was taken earned him some points, but not with evangelicals where Romney is still running fifth.
The big loser? Fred Thompson down to fifth place. Huckabee now leads among conservatives and evangelical Republican voters. His support has nearly tripled among women. Huckabee scores well on likability and on respecting Republican values. But Giuliani is still seen as having the best chance of beating the Democrats.
RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every poll shows that I would be by far the strongest candidate against Hillary Clinton.
SCHNEIDER: And the Democrats? Shakeup there, too, last month Hillary Clinton was 19 points ahead of Barack Obama. Now her lead has shrunk to 10 points. Clinton is still way ahead among women, but Barack Obama has made big gains with men where he now leads Clinton.
Last month, Clinton was leading Obama by two to one among liberals. Now Obama is 10 points ahead. Democrats say Obama's most likable and least like a typical politician. But when asked who has the best chance of beating the Republican, Democrats say Clinton.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have been standing against the Republicans George Bush and Dick Cheney and I will continue to do so, and I think Democrats know that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Why is this happening now? Because the voters have to make up their minds and they're paying attention. It is almost primary and caucus time and they're looking at the front-runners and they're saying maybe we ought to rethink this decision -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, Huckabee clearly surging ahead in Iowa and other states. To what extent is illegal immigration now one of the top voters for the Republican voters in Iowa?
SCHNEIDER: Well Lou here's a clue. Both Romney and Huckabee are just releasing ads dealing with the issue of illegal immigration. There is a Romney ad which will start airing in Iowa tomorrow. He's spending millions on this ad. He takes issue with Huckabee's records specifically on taxpayer-funded tuition tax breaks and scholarships for the children of illegal aliens.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... tuition for illegal aliens, opposed drivers' licenses for illegals. Mike Huckabee supported in-state tuition benefits for illegal immigrants. Huckabee even supported...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: And Huckabee also has an ad, which is going to start -- which started today in Iowa. He is spending much less money on the ad, he has less money. But the difference is he talks about his opposition to illegal immigration, he says no amnesty. He says that twice. No sanctuary cities and border security must come first. The difference (INAUDIBLE) is Huckabee does not attack any other candidate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secure the border and do it now. I'm Mike Huckabee and I approve this message.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SCHNEIDER: And those are the two ads. So clearly in the final stage of this battle illegal immigration has become the top issue in Iowa.
DOBBS: And I think it is arguable, as you would guess, Bill Schneider that it has been a top issue among the voters there and across the country for some time. The candidates and their pollsters are only awakening to that. Religion, both Huckabee and Romney focusing on religion, trying to position themselves as candidates of a religious character. What's happening in terms of that issue?
SCHNEIDER: Well what it is interesting as I reported in the poll is that while Romney does appear to have picked up some support because of his speech on faith and politics, he didn't score many points among evangelical voters. That's where he has been losing support very rapidly to Mike Huckabee in this final stage of the Iowa campaign.
Religion is an important issue specifically to Republicans. You know something, Lou; if you had one question to ask an American voter that would best predict how that person votes, Republican or Democrat, it wouldn't be class or state or ethnicity. It would be how often do you go to church. Religion has become a defining issue in American politics.
DOBBS: So you mean as to whether or not a person would be a Republican or a Democrat?
SCHNEIDER: That's right. If you didn't ask are you Republican or Democrat, it wouldn't be how much money do you make, what is your job, how well educated, where do you live. It would be how often do you go to church.
DOBBS: Yet, Senator Obama is making much of his religious views on the campaign trail, perhaps more so than any other Democratic candidate and that at least appears to be part of the formula that is working for him, is it not?
SCHNEIDER: It is indeed working for him and for this reason. Because he is using that to demonstrate that he can reach across party lines. He can appeal to voters of faith who ordinarily vote Republicans and unite the country. That religious imagery is a symbol of his ability to unite the country that he is running on and making gains on.
DOBBS: And while there's got be a great concern in the Senator Clinton camp, that the Senator Obama camp is making in-roads, as one looks at those numbers a little more carefully, Bill Schneider, one sees that Hillary Clinton has lost four percent of her support over the period from the previous poll while Obama has gained only five percent and the undecideds are still a considerable number in these early polls. What do you make of that?
SCHNEIDER: That voters are now thinking hard and some of them are -- that the undecided is growing because in the past, the polls have mostly been about name recognition. Look at the top Republicans; they have been Rudy Giuliani, who is famous after 9/11; John McCain, who ran before; Fred Thompson, who is a movie actor. They were all well known. Now the voters are watching the debates. They are listening to what the candidates are saying about the issue and some of them are saying you know what, I'm undecided. I can't make up my mind, but they're going have to soon.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
All three Democratic front-runners have celebrities or celebrities of varying visibility out on the stump for them. Without any doubt, the Oprah Winfrey/Barack Obama juggernaut is drawing the most attention, media attention and voter attention apparently in the key states of Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina.
That matchup pulling in an estimated 70,000 people before separate gatherings over the weekend, almost half of those at a single stadium event, that's what in television we call serious numbers for a stump speech, the largest crowd yet of any event in the race to '08. Also we learned from the Edwards campaign that actors Tim Robbins and Kevin Bacon are hopping onboard his campaign juggernaut. Edwards adding that star power to earlier appearances with Bonnie Raitt and Lance Armstrong, among others.
And to recall that Senator Clinton had an A-list of glitterati dropping by the White House when she was first lady, of course, and she is not doing too badly on the campaign trail either. The Clinton campaign is joined by the distinguished African American poet Maya Angelou, Angelou featured in a Clinton radio ad that is playing now in South Carolina.
And oh yes, let's not forget the recent appearances of Senator Clinton's daughter, Chelsea, and of course Senator Clinton's rock star campaigner, the former president, celebrities of course all in their own right. Edwards playing down any advantage from celebrity endorsements, of course, saying their primary role is simply to get people to show up. The question is will the people show up at the polls or show up at the events?
Turning to the controversy now over the CIA's destruction of videotapes, showing harsh interrogations of suspected radical Islamist terrorists. White House attorneys have now instructed White House Press Secretary Dana Perino not to answer any specific questions about the case. That instruction comes amid rising outrage on Capitol Hill about the destruction of the tapes and an investigation.
Ed Henry reports from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Now that there are open investigations of the CIA's destruction of videotapes, President Bush is not commenting, not even through his press secretary.
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: In terms of I can't talk about that particular -- I can't characterize the president's thinking on it.
HENRY: The White House counsel has ordered staffers to preserve all records relevant to the preliminary joint investigation launched Saturday by the CIA and the Justice Department. And Perino says she's been told not to answer specific questions.
PERINO: To avoid any appearance of trying to prejudice that inquiry, it's appropriate and better for us not to comment.
HENRY: Administration officials did comment anonymously on Friday night to provide information that may help them. Claiming former White House aide Harriet Miers told the CIA not to destroy the tapes. That begs the question of why Miers did not inform the president, but she is not commenting and neither is Perino.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it's going -- unfortunately be one of those three things; I'm not able to comment on anything regarding that.
HENRY: The White House employed a similar strategy with former aide Lewis "Scooter" Libby, eventually convicted of lying and obstruction in another CIA case.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, FMR. WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can't get into discussing ongoing legal proceedings. That's a question relating to the ongoing legal proceeding.
HENRY: The White House brushed aside questions about the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame, saying they did not want to interfere with the investigation, yet on Monday when Libby announced he had ended his appeal, the White House still would not shed any light on what the president thinks about Libby disclosing Plame's identity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did not have a chance to speak to the president after this announcement was made this morning and so I don't have his immediate reaction.
HENRY (on camera): The president vowed back in 2004 that he would fire anyone involved in leaking Plame's identity. That never happened, which is why the big question hanging over this new investigation is whether in the end anyone will be held accountable.
Ed Henry, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Accountability also of concern on Capitol Hill. The harsh interrogation technique known as water boarding at the center of this controversy was apparently known to several senior members of Congress as far back as 2002. A bipartisan group of lawmakers was briefed on the technique in September of 2002, according to "The Washington Post". "The Post" reporting that group included the current Speaker of the House, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi. None of those lawmakers reportedly raised any objections to water boarding at that time. New indications tonight of the increasing differences of opinion between the White House and Great Britain over the conduct of the war in Iraq. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown telling British troops that Iraq will take over responsibility for security in the southern city of Basra within two weeks. British troops will shift from a combat role to a training role, meaning the war in Iraq will be over for Britain.
Meanwhile, more than 150,000 of our troops remain in other areas of Iraq fighting insurgents and terrorists, of course.
Coming up here next, President Calderon of Mexico is at it again, oh, he has some really interesting ideas for our leadership. Casey Wian will have the report for us -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Mexican President Felipe Calderon has accused the American public of anti-Mexican sentiment and he has called illegal aliens in the United States symbolic hostages. Well apparently he is going to try to freeze those hostages in a visit to this country in February. We'll explain coming up.
DOBBS: Well Casey we should point out that those hostages have been freed, freed from the poverty and the corruption of the government that President Felipe Calderon now heads, but it will be interesting to have that other perspective.
Also middle class Americans reeling from the housing and mortgage crisis in this country while large banks and financial institutions are trying to profit from the crisis, Among my guests here tonight, author Pat Buchanan, has written a provocative new book "Day of Reckoning". Pat Buchanan says this country is literally tearing itself apart. He will be joining us here next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Mexican President Felipe Calderon apparently just can't help himself. Calderon is telling Mexican counsels in America to work to quote, "neutralize anti-immigrant attitudes in the United States". And President Calderon announcing his plans to come to the United States in February "in an effort to influence apparently our presidential election and to straighten out American citizens who just don't understand Mexican government policy."
Casey Wian has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): Last week, Mexican President Felipe Calderon said U.S. presidential candidates are competing "to see who can be the most swaggering macho and anti-Mexican". He also accused the American public of quote, "hostility toward Mexicans". Sunday he announced plans to visit the United States in February.
FELIPE CALDERON, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I am convinced that the worst error we can commit is to make each other feel like the enemy. We have to rescue the idea and rescue it quickly that there will not be progress in either country if there is not progress in change in the other.
WIAN: Those his words were more conciliatory, Calderon's agenda remains clear; securing illegal alien amnesty and unconditional U.S. military aide to battle drug cartels. Calderon's visit is scheduled for the same month as Super Tuesday when 24 states hold presidential primaries. One political analyst says continued anti U.S. statements by Calderon would only help Republicans.
GEORGE GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM AND MARY: They have had a more law and order posture with regard to illegal immigration than have the Democrats. The Democrats have in fact been doing back flips to ensure the Mexicans that they favor either amnesty or a broader guesswork or program or more visas or all of the three.
WIAN: Calderon's demand that U.S. presidential hopefuls tone down their alleged anti-immigrant rhetoric was reflected by questioners during Sunday's Republican debate on Spanish language network (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a terrible thing when a person who is here legally but who may speak with an accent is racially profiled by members of the public and people assume that they may be illegal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll give you some straight talk. I think some of the rhetoric that many Hispanics hear about illegal immigration makes some of them believe that we are not in favor nor seek the support of Hispanic citizens in this country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's no picnic to be living as an illegal immigrant. It's a terrible way to live.
WIAN: Calderon's announced itinerary so far includes New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Mexican media reports say Calderon also hopes to open two new Mexican consulates this year in Alaska and Idaho. There are currently 47 Mexican consulates in the United States. Canada by comparison has just 20 -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, that ought to be sufficient representation. I'm finding it very difficult to take Felipe Calderon seriously now. I mean he's almost becoming a character -- caricature, if you will, of what a Mexican president should be doing, suggesting -- I mean the United States is anti-immigrant. We have somewhere between 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants in this country. We have in the case of Mexico, $25 billion a year being sent to families, U.S. dollars being sent to Mexican families from those working in this country. They have -- the government of Mexico, the nation of Mexico enjoys a $70 billion trade surplus with the United States. What in the world does this man expect? WIAN: Well one of the explanations for President Calderon's statement, sometimes conflicting statements, conciliatory when he is talking to a U.S. audience and very hostile when he is talking to a Mexican audience is that nationalism plays very well in his country to potential Mexican voters and his party has lost some political power. He is not able to get reforms that he wants to get through Congress and so he's trying to appear more nationalistic to appeal to voters in Mexico.
DOBBS: Well is this Mexican president, he must have about the same opinion of his people that the American president has of his. That is they must be dumb as rocks to believe that a government that can't provide something above poverty for nearly half of its citizens, a government that is corrupt and inefficient and ineffective and he's pointing fingers at the United States.
I mean surely that isn't selling in Mexico. What I did find interesting was in that Univision debate, my goodness Rudy Giuliani says the life of an illegal alien is not a pleasant one in this country. Do you think he was pandering at all to that audience? Because I would have thought he would have said the reason that illegal alien is here is because life isn't pleasant in Mexico or in any number of other nations.
WIAN: There was a lot of what you could call pandering in that debate. The tones of the border security advocates among the Republican political candidates were much softer than they have been in the past, so it's apparent that they're convinced that by talking less tough on illegal immigration, they'll curry favor with Latino voters, Lou.
DOBBS: And Huckabee sitting there talking about -- or standing and talking about racial profiling in this country as if it is a matter of general practice on the part of law enforcement. I mean the man ought to be embarrassed out of his mind. I mean he's shameless and John McCain talking about the rhetoric. The rhetoric they should be embarrassed about is just simply not speaking truthfully. They are -- I mean this selection of candidates, both Republican and Democratic in my humble estimation, well it is a bevy of beauties is all I can say. Thank you very much, Casey Wian.
WIAN: OK.
DOBBS: In our poll tonight, we'd like you to tell us do you believe that if President Calderon is so concerned about his citizens in this country that he should take them home with him? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.
And time now for some of your thoughts. George in California writes, "After 64 years as a registered Republican, I finally woke up and registered as an Independent. As far as I'm concerned, both the elephant and the jack ass can go suck an egg."
And Jackie in Arkansas, "Lou, thanks for telling us the truth, too bad our government doesn't extend the same courtesy to the people. It is time for the American people to take this country back, get back to basics and stop allowing our elected officials to sell us out to the highest bidder."
Ann in Vermont said, "Lou, I own and run a cookie cutter company in Vermont. I wanted to tell you that as always, we are proud to be made in the USA. One of the slogans for our 2008 catalog is going to be 'our products are made for children, not by children'. We thought you might enjoy that. Love the show."
And we did enjoy it and we appreciate you sending it and we'll put your Web site on our Web site over the next day or so. We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit", the book that corporate America and special interests certainly would not want you to read.
Coming up next here find out who is pushing for more visas for guest workers from other nations. We'll have a special report. It is -- well we won't even give you a hint about who is trying. You probably will be surprised, however, by how blatant they are.
The state of Arizona fighting go gain control of its borders, we'll tell you about that.
And a new governor and a new battle to rebuild the city of New Orleans and to return integrity to the government of Louisiana.
And a legend warning that for America the end may be near, all of that and more coming up here next.
We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The state of Arizona has won a critically important legal battle in its fight to control the impact of illegal immigration and it already is facing a new legal challenge. Louise Schiavone reports on the fight to restrict the employment of illegal aliens in the state of Arizona.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Business groups have lost the latest round in Arizona where a law barring employers from hiring illegal workers still stands.
ANDREW P. THOMAS, MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY: We need to secure the border and the various ways. We need to engage local law enforcement in fighting illegal immigration and we need to stop the economic magnet that comes from all the illicit jobs that employers are providing to illegal immigrants.
SCHIAVONE: Under the legal Arizona Worker's Act, due to take effect January 1, the superior courts of Arizona have the authority to suspend or even remove the operating licenses of businesses that hire illegal aliens. The law has raised the hackles of groups like The Arizona Contractors Association, The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, The Arizona Farm Bureau, and The Arizona Restaurant and Hospitality Association in large part because the measure signed into law this summer holds contractors accountable when subcontractors use illegal workers.
GLENN HAMMER, ARIZONA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: We need to make sure that we don't have a system in place that puts well-meaning businesses, businesses that are trying to play by the rules at a position where there are very existence is constantly being threatened.
SCHIAVONE: In Phoenix one of the county prosecutors named in a second run on the law, Andrew Thomas, is confident it will stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are too many businesses in Arizona and throughout the United States that are hiring illegal immigrants that are basically enriching themselves off of the sweat of illegal immigrants and at the expense of broader society.
SCHIAVONE: Thomas says until Congress can confront the burgeoning problems posed by illegal immigrations, Arizona stands ready to lead the way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lou, previous challenges to other Arizona have failed on the state level. The courts there upholding denial of bond to illegal aliens accused of serious crimes and upholding Maricopa County's efforts against voter fraud, a case now before the Supreme Court -- Lou.
DOBBS: And of course upholding Proposition 100, Proposition 200, and all of the state initiatives that were passed by the people of the state. It's remarkable to me to see the Chamber of Commerce and those groups of people, business people absolutely, without embarrassment or shame saying that they really should not be asked to follow the law. I mean you know you reported that this law raised the hackles of these people. Who possibly could care what happened to their hackles when corporate America, when these business people are acting so, just in utter disregard to the national interests and the law?
SCHIAVONE: Lou, it is such a transparent source of cheap labor for all of these groups, for all of these industries. It's really quite striking, as you say, when you see these business groups lined up against these laws.
DOBBS: And the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the national U.S. Chamber of Commerce, just showing utter ignorance. Its leadership supporting -- suggesting that this country needs illegal aliens in it to support retiring baby boomers, among other things. The utter madness and shamelessness of a what was once a respectable and well regarded business lobbying organization. Thank you very much, Louise Schiavone, from Washington, D. C.
Up next here, corporate America launching a new assault against working men and women and their families, like we needed another one. We'll have that report.
And middle class Americans suffering new shock waves from our escalating mortgage, housing and credit crisis. We'll have that story.
And among my guests here tonight, Pat Buchanan, author of the provocative important new book, "Day of Reckoning," and governor-elect Bobby Jindal of Louisiana. He's fighting to restore ethics in government in that state.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Business organizations and businesses across the country lobbying congress for more visas for guest workers from other countries. The businesses say they're simply running out of workers in this country to hire. But there are no studies. There is no research to support those rather alarmist cries and there are many reasons to suspect that those claims are just lies covering up the true motive. Bill Tucker has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One company in Texas caught the attention of labor in Texas when it applied for 6,000 H2-B visas. The H2-B visa is a broadly used visa for non-skilled agricultural workers, covering welders, ship builders, refinery workers. The program is capped at 66,000 annually. Labor leaders flagged the application saying they had plenty of workers who needed job. No foreign workers need apply. It was then and only then that the company's lawyer admitted the jobs didn't exist saying a mistake had been made. Labor leaders say they believe the applications were deliberate and the intentions are clear.
BECKY MOELLER, TEXAS AFL-CIO: They're looking for cheap labor. They're exploiting these workers that do come in just go get cheap labor. It's not that we don't have the workers are not available. It's that they want to pay a cheap, cheap rate for the labor.
TUCKER: Temporary guest worker programs are meant to fill labor shortages when no citizen workers or legal residents are available for work. Companies don't have on prove a shortage, they simply have to claim one. Congressman Gene Green who represents the district where the 6,000 application were made is calling for an investigation into the H2-B visa program in a letter to the house committee on education and work force. And he says, he has a better idea.
REP. GENE GREEN (D), TEXAS: We have lots of students graduating from our high schools, and you import the labor, then we're not giving that opportunity to our own folks.
TUCKER: The H2-B visa is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to foreign guest worker programs. There are eight such guest worker visas, There are the H visas, the E visas for specialty occupations from Australia, the R visa for religious workers, the P visa for athletes and entertainers, the O visa for the extraordinarily talented, the L visa for intra company transfers, the Q visa for cultural exchange purposes, the J visa for foreign students come to the states and work for three-months in a seasonal occupation. Only the H1-B and the H2-B visa programs have limits.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And within the H1-B category of visas, there are no limits on the number of people who can be admitted who work for non- profit groups, research institutions or teachers. And the first 20,000 foreign graduate students are exempt from that cap as well. In 2006, on just the H1-B and H2-B visas, 244,257 guest workers were admitted to this country, Lou.
DOBBS: I bet all we can say, if you're listening in the White House, you guys, you really, you need to go home, now. It's really enough. And all of you in congress, and Senator Kennedy, please, quit lying to the American people. And Bill Gates, I know you have more money that god, but the truth of the matter is it's time to start being honest with the American people. Because we're not going to put up with it. We're going continue to shove the truth out there every night. This is absurd. It's obscene that it's going on in business people who were once an important part of the leadership of this country are absolutely corrupt.
TUCKER: Well, there are a lot of people who would say their loyalty has been replaced, their patriotism has been replaced by a loyalty to the bottom line. Cheap labor is more important than their country to these companies.
DOBBS: And as crooked, corrupt, incompetent, nasty pieces of business, these business people aren't even very clever about it. I mean it's embarrassing on every level. You would think at least our corporate geniuses in this country could at least be somewhat more clever. Like this organized little trip to Felipe Calderon through the country, a little tour February. How cute that is. Good job over there at the White House. Good work. All right. Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
And the AFL-CIO, they really don't like this? Their worried about it?
TUCKER: Down in Texas, Lou, they're the ones who led the fight to expose the company.
DOBBS: Meanwhile John Sweeney and all the boys and girls in Washington running the AFL-CIO are supporting illegal immigration. They're supporting open borders. They don't care about their dues- paying members in the country who just happen to be citizens of the country. You've got to love everybody involved in this mess. Bill Tucker, thank you, sir. I think, thank you.
Still ahead, Pat Buchanan. He has a very important, provocative new book out. We'll be talking with him.
And the youngest governor-to-be in the country, governor elect of Louisiana Bobby Jindal joins us. Stay with us. We'll be talking about which is really the most corrupt state in the union. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Louisiana's governor-elect, Bobby Jindal, faces the daunting task of rebuilding a state government and a state, a state after the devastation of Katrina two years ago that two term republican congressman won a gubernatorial election with more than half the vote. The governor-elect says ethics reform is his number one priority and he's going to clean up corruption in Louisiana. No small task. The governor-elect joins us. Good to have you with us.
GOV.-ELECT BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: Let's talk about first the title that Louisiana has right now. As you and I have discussed, I think there are some other states that got by with it but the idea of corruption in Louisiana is a joke, but there's no laughter at the punch line.
JINDAL: It is stealing jobs from our children. You know Harvard University says we're second worst in the conviction rate of our officials. VGA says we're fourth worst on their integrity index. Here's the problem. LSU did a study that surveyed national business leaders, the number one thing we can do to create jobs for our people is to crack down on corruption. We're the only state in the south that's losing people, 30,000 of our people leave every year. My first special session will be devoted exclusively to ethics to say to our legislators, you can't do business with the state. You can't lobby with the state, disclose to us the voters, your income, your assets, your liabilities. Show us who is putting money in your pockets. If you break the rules, you go to jail.
DOBBS: It's your state. But everyone watching that knows anything about the state of Louisiana knows that Bobby Jindal has his hands full in going after this.
Let's talk about where the state of Louisiana, it's almost become overexposed, the issue of New Orleans, the corruption of that city, the failure of the state, the federal, and the local government to help the folks in New Orleans. How long is it going take for you the get something done?
JINDAL: I think we've got an opportunity right away. I think we attack corruption and get rid of taxes other states don't have on debt, new equipment and unities. I think the people of Louisiana are saying to the country it's a new day in Louisiana. Forget what you've heard before. Forget those horror stories. We're demanding competence. We're demanding honesty. You know if we will train our own people, we've got virtually full employment if we will train our people. We have thousands of jobs that employer say they can't fill today. We need welders for our ship builders. We need nurses. We need health care workers. We need automotive and computer technicians. We're going to attach corruption and get rid of taxes on debt, new equipment and utilities and then we're going to tell our kids, don't drop out of school, not every child is going to college. Let's provide them with a technical or a community college education. Those that want to go to a four year school, great.
DOBBS: Public schools in Louisiana, like schools in many states across the country, suffering. It's a disaster area all of its own in the state of Louisiana.
JINDAL: And you're seeing some positive things in New Orleans with charter schools. I think it's really simple. You keep good teachers in the classroom. If you have money for technology and books and buildings, that's great. But it really starts with having a good teacher. Yes, let's pay them more but let's also crack down on discipline. Right now we lose 50% of our new teachers five years after they graduate. Number one reason they're leaving, lack of discipline in the classroom. The environment in the classroom, in Louisiana, we're second worst in the country. Let's have a teacher's bill of rights to say they can enforce discipline in the classroom.
DOBBS: Louisiana also dealing with a number of issues of race and the idea that 400,000 or 500,000 of the black citizens of the city of New Orleans have not returned to that town amongst those reports. One of the things I was struck by and I had not noticed it before. You were referred to as the first non-white governor of the state of Louisiana. I was struck by that since you're Indian-American, not nonwhite. But that was by the "Washington Post," "Time Magazine," NBC, CNN. What in the world is going on when that is even pertinent or relevant in this country?
JINDAL: Two things. People try to make this about race and color. The only colors that matter is red, white, and blue. We're all Americans first. We try to hyphenate ourselves and divide ourselves. We're all Americans.
DOBBS: Amen, brother.
JINDAL: That's part of what's wrong. In our country, this used to be the melting pot. People would come here and say, my parents followed the rules to come here. And they followed the rules, by the way, to come here. And they came here because this is the greatest country in the world. They said look, if you work hard, you get an education, you can go do better than your parents did. That's the American dream. This election wasn't about color. It was about making sure our children can pursue that American dream at home. They shouldn't have to leave home to get good paying jobs.
DOBBS: And you know to all those folks in this country who think otherwise, I have to say I'm great believer in the great American mutt. I like it when it's just as mixed up as we can get it. Governor, I think you're going to give the state of Louisiana a real chance to shine. We appreciate you being here. Wish you all the best.
JINDAL: Thank you Lou. Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "OUT IN THE OPEN" with Rick Sanchez. Rick, what have you got for us?
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Lou, always good to see you. Unbelievable situation, guy walks in with a rifle into a church that had 7,000 people in it. He started shooting there. We've got breaking news on this because police are now telling us that the shooting earlier in the day, same guy was responsible for that one.
An then there's this incident going on in Houston. I don't know if you've heard about this one. A guy goes after two guys robbing his neighbor's house. He calls 911 and says I'm not going to allow this to happen. It turns out that the guys are illegal immigrants. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPERATOR: Mr. Horn, do not go out the house.
JOE HORN: I'm sorry. This ain't right, buddy.
OPERATOR: You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with that gun. I don't care what you think. Stay in the house.
HORN: You wanna make a bet? I'm gonna kill 'em.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It's amazing. I mean this guy becomes so enraged, he goes and he confronts these guys. It gets really ugly, shall we say really bloody as well. We're going to have the aftermath of that. We've got the entire tape so you'll be able to listen to it.
And Congressman Tom Tancredo will join us and tell us why he didn't want to go to the debate last night.
DOBBS: My guess is because he didn't want the pander like the other fools running for president. Thank you very much, Rick. We'll look forward to it. Rick Sanchez.
Harvard making a top-notch education available for the middle class. Among the changes, Harvard will no longer include home equity in the mix when calculating a family's ability to pay but the truly outstanding advantage by Harvard for middle and lower income families, the school will not expect students in need to take out those student loans. Instead, Harvard will give increased grants to cover those costs which now top $45,000 a year. Good for Harvard.
Up next, dire warnings that America's coming apart and may not survive as a nation. I'll be talking to Pat Buchanan, author of "Day of Reckoning." He's our guest next. Judge for yourself. We'll be right back.
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DOBBS: Former presidential candidate, best-selling author, television commentator, Pat Buchanan provides what is nothing less than a terrifying glimpse of the future of this country in his new book "Day of Reckoning; How Hubris, Ideology and Greed are Tearing America Apart." Buchanan warns that America faces a number of pending disasters, including a massive invasion across our broker borders, the declining dollar and our military forces losing numbers. Joining me now from our studios in Washington, Pat Buchanan. Pat, good to have you with us.
PAT BUCHANAN, AUTHOR, "DAY OF RECKONING: Thank you, Lou. Good to be back.
DOBBS: And congratulations on the new book, a best seller doing great.
Let me turn to the very first thing. The first chapter, declaring that the American century is over. I would like to share this with our viewers. "America is indeed coming apart, decomposing, and that the likelihood of our survival as one nation through mid century is improbable and impossible if America continues on her current course. For we are on a path to national suicide." My God, I don't think you could be more pessimistic.
BUCHANAN: Well that is where we are headed, Lou. As I write in the last chapter, we can still have a second American century. But look what is happening. You've got 12 to 20 million illegal aliens in the country, 38 million immigrants. The melting pot that turned our grandfathers and great grandfathers into Americans is cracked, broken and rejected as an instrument of cultural genocide. You have that going on in the country at the same time that the dollar is going down, the manufacturing base is being exported, you're overextended abroad with a smaller army than we had in 1939. All of these things are hitting at once and I don't get the awareness of the gravity of the crises comes at us.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this. Are there any candidates that you support?
BUCHANAN: Look Tom Tancredo has been a lion on immigration. Duncan Hunter has been terrific on trade, better than anybody. Ron Paul has been courageous saying we're overextended abroad. There are a number of candidates on single issues but I don't see the seen of gravity and the peril this country is in that I see in that book and we lay things out chapter and verse. You have a Mexican president comes to the United States of America saying wherever Mexicans are that is Mexico. That takes care of Mitt Romney's lawn.
DOBBS: The reality is that the Bush White House, no one in this Congress, no one in this White House, this administration said a word in response. The idea that these two parties are trying to perpetuate the myth that there's a distinction between them is I think it's fascinating. Because corporate America, I think you and I agree, corporate America is dominating our entire process in this country.
BUCHANAN: Corporate America used to be as American as apple pie. They were concerned about maintaining their American market. They would say we're going prosper American first. The old fellows wanted to build up the industries. Now they can't wait to get out of the United States. What has happened Lou is the giant American corporations that have become transnational. The interests of the country have divided completely. I heard one of your speakers one of the correspondents say it's the loss of patriotism on the part of the transnational companies. He's exactly right. They look to the bottom line. They look overseas. They want to get rid of the American workers because they cost too much.
DOBBS: Pat Buchanan, it's obvious to all the viewers of this broadcast why you and I are talking now and we're going to come back here just if you will. We'll be back after the break. We'll also of the results of our poll. More of your thoughts. I'll continue with Pat Buchanan in just one moment. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: We're back with Pat Buchanan, author of the important new book, which I highly recommend, "Day of Reckoning." Let's deal with an issue on the minds of Americans. That is the issue of illegal immigration. What has to be done?
BUCHANAN: Well first thing, you've got to secure the border. If we don't do it, it won't exist anymore in ten years. You've got to crack down on businesses that hire illegals. You've got to cut off the magnets by ending social welfare benefits as they voted to do Arizona. You've got to end this absurd practice that if someone comes to the United States and has a baby the next day it is automatically a citizen for life and entitled to a whole lifetime of benefits. I think you need a time-out on legal immigration of about 250,000 a year. This is the sea into which illegals move. We need another time out to get the melting pot up and running again.
DOBBS: What about the 12 to 20 million illegals in this country?
BUCHANAN: Start the deportations with gang members, felons, scofflaws and you start with felons and people who are drunk drivers and others. Then you start the process by cracking down on business, removing the magnets, they'll go home. What draws them here is free education, welfare, good jobs, good paying jobs much better than in Mexico. Basically business and the welfare, the social safety net draws them here.
DOBBS: The idea that this country is continuing the war on terror, a war that the administration refuses to say it's a war on Islamists. How do you conclude it?
BUCHANAN: I think you have to be laser-focused on Islamic extremists and terrorists and their networks all over the world, and in that case, I do agree with the president. I disagreed with Iraq. I do agree with pre-emptive strikes on Islamic terrorists all over the world, but the first thing you've got to do is secure the homeland, secure the border both north and south and make sure they don't get and then go after them where they are.
DOBBS: In fact, lastly, you mentioned the economy, $53 trillion in unfunded liabilities, $9 trillion national debt, $6 trillion trade debt, rising faster than the national debt. Thirty seconds, what do you do about that?
BUCHANAN: Look, we've got $2 billion goes out of this country every day to support consumption in the United States. We need a border equity tax to impose it on all foreign manufacturers, just as they impose their tax on our exports. Take the money from that and cut taxes to zero on American manufacturers in the United States. And the old Republican slogan -- prosper America first. If you've got that, you develop your policy along those lines, I think you can't go wrong. We didn't go wrong until we got on track to this globalism, free trade fanaticism.
DOBBS: Pat Buchanan. The book is "Day of Reckoning." Thanks for being here, Pat.
BUCHANAN: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight: 98 percent of you say that if Mexican President Calderon is so concerned about his citizens in this country, that he should take them home with him, put his arms around them, and take them home after his visit here in February.
Time now for a few of your thoughts. Pamela in Colorado wrote in to say "Thank God for Lou Dobbs. If not for this show, no one would ever know how bad this government is trying to stick to the American citizens. Keep up the good work and really think about running for president. You would have my vote for sure."
And Vince in Pennsylvania: "Hey, Lou, we finally did it. My wife and I have registered independent. You know, I feel like I just got out of the shower. Thank you, my friend."
We thank you. And hope everyone will consider registering as independents. It's important.
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit."
Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow. For all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "OUT IN THE OPEN" with Rick Sanchez starts right now -- Rick.
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