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Nancy Grace
Six Students Shot in Las Vegas After Getting Off School Bus
Aired December 11, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight, six young students gunned down near a school bus stop in Las Vegas. Multiple gunshots ring out in broad daylight after a group of students are dropped off in a northeast Las Vegas neighborhood after school. According to initial reports, two students are in critical condition. The manhunt tonight for at least two suspects.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s some breaking news to tell you about right now. We`re just getting in that Las Vegas police say six young people, either in junior high or high school, have been shot after they got off a bus early this afternoon, once again, this happening in Las Vegas, Nevada, an officer telling the Associated Press that at least two individuals are suspected in the shooting. Gunshots rang out, according to the AP, right after the school bus left the area. Six have been transported to hospitals, four we`re receiving word of minor gunshot injuries, and two at this hour in critical condition. Once again, breaking news, Las Vegas police say six young people, either in junior high or high school, have been shot as they got off a school bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: And tonight: Still no sign of young mom of two Stacy Peterson, who vanishes in the Chicago suburbs. Her former police sergeant husband is the prime suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance. Did Stacy Peterson confide to others before she goes missing that her husband revealed killing his third wife, making it look like an accident? That`s just what a minister who counseled Stacy Peterson before she disappeared said, that reverend saying she told him Drew Peterson did it, and says the young mom knew very specific details about the mysterious bathtub death of Kathleen Savio. Results on that second autopsy still pending. And once again, Stacy Peterson reveals she was afraid of Drew Peterson.
Now, in a bizarre twist, after using the airwaves to find a defense attorney, Peterson again reaches out to America, this time for money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drew Peterson killed his third wife. That`s what Stacy Peterson`s pastor says she confessed to him this summer. Peterson`s clergyman is speaking out, and he says he believes Stacy knew what she was talking about. As this case drags on, the former police officer, now a suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance and essentially a suspect in his third wife`s death, apparently set up a Web site to collect money for his defense and then took it back down. He said he wanted to collect money from people who believed he deserves a defense without going broke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. First tonight, breaking news, six students gunned down in Las Vegas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. According to the Associated Press, Las Vegas police say six young people, either in junior high or high school, have been shot as they got off a school bus, a Las Vegas police officer telling the AP at least two are suspected in the shooting in northeast Las Vegas. The officer says gunshots rang out after the school bus left the area around North Walnut Road. Six people are transported to area hospitals, four minor gunshot injuries and two currently in critical condition, law enforcement saying the police gang unit is also currently investigating to determine if gangs were involved. Cops aren`t saying whether the shooting suspects were on foot or in a vehicle. Once again, breaking news, Las Vegas police say six young people in junior high or high school have been shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Absolutely devastating news. We`re going to show you aerials of the scene, and go immediately to John Shaffer, reporter for KDWN 720 AM radio. John, this is absolutely shocking. Give us the latest.
JOHN SHAFFER, KDWN 720 AM: Well, the latest is a bit of good news. We have just received word that one of those six people that was shot has been discharged from the hospital at this time. All six of those students -- actually, four students and two adults -- taken to the University Medical Center here in Las Vegas, the shooting happening in north Las Vegas right before 2:00 o`clock this afternoon. So a little bit of good news at this point, one of the injured people has been discharged from the hospital. The manhunt is still out there for those two gunmen that the police are looking for.
LALAMA: Oh, thank goodness for that one case so far. Now, we`re going to go, obviously, into more details, but first let`s get updates because we are fortunate enough to have Dr. Jay Coates, a trauma surgeon from UMC hospital. And I know you`ve worked on some of these young people, and thank you so much for taking the time. Please, please first update us on the conditions as you know them.
DR. JAY COATES, UMC, OPERATED ON SHOOTING VICTIMS: Well, as I said, we have two teenage males who are in critical condition, required operative intervention. They`re both in our critical care units now. And we`ve actually discharged two of the patients home...
LALAMA: OK.
COATES: ... with very minor injuries. And then the other two are here in the hospital just for observation.
LALAMA: All right. So that`s good news. So it looks like it`s most critical for two of these young people.
COATES: Yes, ma`am, it is.
LALAMA: You know, try to give us a sense. I know it`s early, but you know, are you saying life-threatening? Are you -- can you give us a sense of how bad it is?
COATES: They`re serious. I wouldn`t say that they`re life- threatening injuries at this time, but they`re definitely serious condition. And as I said, they`re in our critical care unit. I really can`t go into much more detail than that.
LALAMA: OK. Stay with us, please.
John Shaffer, back to you. I know the details are fluctuating a bit. What do we know for certain? I mean, it`s hard to imagine as a parent, these could be your kids. It`s broad daylight. What do you know?
SHAFFER: Well, what we know, at this point, according to the Las Vegas Metro Police Department, who spoke with the media about 45 minutes ago, that this apparently stemmed from a fight at Mohave (ph) High School here in Las Vegas yesterday, a couple of groups of people arguing with each other, fighting. Today the school bus pulls up to the school bus stop at Alexander and Walnut in North Las Vegas, kids get off, the bus pulls away, 10 shots ring out, six people injured.
LALAMA: Do we know what the fighting was about?
SHAFFER: That we don`t know. The police gang unit is involved, although they`re not saying one way or another if it is gang-related, although there is a lot of gang activity in certain areas of Las Vegas.
LALAMA: Is it true that some elementary schools were closed down for a while?
SHAFFER: There was -- two elementary schools were locked down early in this investigation while they were trying to determine exactly what happened. They have since been released from lockdown and those students sent home, as well.
LALAMA: Well, you know, paint a picture for us of this area. I`m pretty familiar with Las Vegas, but for our viewers who are not, where -- you know, people think of Las Vegas, it`s all about the strip. It is not. There are many neighborhoods. What is this neighborhood? How close is it to other families, homes, other children? How dangerous was it? Give us that picture that we need.
SHAFFER: Everything on Las Vegas, as you know, if you`re familiar with it, is right on top of each other. Land is at a premium here in the desert, so they build as close as they can, one house to the next house to the next hours. Of course, everything is walled in here, as well, to keep the dust from blowing from house to house. So I wouldn`t say any homes were in danger at this bus stop.
And North Las Vegas is its own incorporated town. This actually didn`t happen in Las Vegas, per se, although you would call the whole area Las Vegas. The shooting happened in North Las Vegas, which has its own police force...
LALAMA: Right.
SHAFFER: ... although it is part of the entire Clark County school district, which has more than 300,000 students in it, the fifth largest school district in the country. So I wouldn`t say any other people in the area were in danger at the time that this happened. But again, as you said earlier, broad daylight, people with guns out on the street, just opening fire at people at a bus stop.
LALAMA: Well, especially in the wake of the other mass shootings that have been going on recently, it`s just chilling.
And back to Dr. Jay Coates. Do you have any idea what kind of weapons were used? What kind of ammunition are you dealing with? Where -- in what part of the body were these people shot?
COATES: You know, it`s really hard to tell. These looked like they were -- and from all reports, sound like it was either automatic or semi- automatic weapons. The individuals that we operated were shot both in the chest and the abdomen. The other individuals that were discharged home or they`re here were more minor injuries, either shot in limbs, or you know, soft tissue injuries.
LALAMA: All right. And so just to repeat for the sake of anyone who`s watching, there were a total of six, and you say two are serious, two have been discharged and two are being observed as we speak?
COATES: Yes. That`s correct.
LALAMA: How did you -- did everybody come into the hospital at once? Paint a picture for us of the scene at the hospital.
COATES: Sure. Actually, you know, we`re really busy, one of the busier trauma centers, actually, in the United States. And so we`re kind of in a state of readiness here all the time, staffed and waiting. And so we, you know, got heads-up from the EMS that there were multiple gunshot wounds. And they, as is typical, transport the more critical patients first. And so they kind of came in at a step-wise fashion, with the two critical patients coming in first.
Everybody`s here and waiting for them when they come through the door. And so from the minute they came into our trauma bay, I think the first individual was in the operating room within about five or six minutes and was being treated. And so as the other individuals came in, they were triaged and diagnosed and appropriately treated. So everybody was just here and waiting for them.
LALAMA: It`s phenomenal how you`re able to do all this. And I`m sure we have a society thankful for people like you. Hang in there with us for a minute. Don`t go away.
We understand -- well, first we have Jose Montoya, who`s the PIO with the very, very fine Las Vegas Metro Police Department. I know it well. We have five boys, one girl between 16 and 17, sir, is that correct?
JOSE MONTOYA, PIO, LAS VEGAS METRO POLICE DEPT.: That is correct, yes, ma`am.
LALAMA: OK. What can you tell us about this incident from A to Z?
MONTOYA: Well, I can tell you that approximately a little bit before 2:00 o`clock this afternoon in the -- near the intersection of Alexander and Walnut, we had some students that had gotten dropped off of a school bus. They start to walk and they were approached by two males, juvenile males, that began firing at the group of students that had gotten off of the bus. We do know that six juveniles, or six individuals were hit and were transported to the hospital. Our officers immediately got there, as did our detectives, and we are continuing with the investigation. Both of the male juveniles that did the shooting are still at large at this time.
LALAMA: OK. So do you believe that there were only two? Could there be more?
MONTOYA: From -- like I said, it`s very preliminary in the investigation, but from talking to the witnesses there at the scene, it appears that there were two.
LALAMA: And do you believe you know who they are?
MONTOYA: That I don`t know. It`s early in the investigation. We`re going to continue with the investigation, and we`re hoping to identify them. But at this time, they are at large.
LALAMA: And what do we know about this alleged ongoing battle among these kids? What`s it about?
MONTOYA: That I don`t know because that would be a more appropriate question for the school district police. They would probably be able to tell us if, in fact, that is the case. What I can tell you is that we had these individuals that were shot at by two other male juveniles when they got off of the school bus.
LALAMA: Well, do you have reason to believe that all six of these kids were actual targets, or was there random fire and they were in the line of fire?
MONTOYA: We don`t know. We`ve not talked to them, so we -- we still don`t know that. That is some of the questions that we have. And at this time, we don`t know that. But like I said, the investigation is ongoing and we`re hoping to identify these two individuals that did the shooting.
LALAMA: Well, you know, I know you`re law enforcement and not asked to be a psychologist or sociologist, but doesn`t this just -- you know -- I mean, isn`t this just shocking? Here you are in a residential area, it looks like to me...
MONTOYA: Correct.
LALAMA: ... broad daylight, after school, kids with guns. What in the world is this saying to us?
MONTOYA: Well, certainly. And obviously, we`re concerned and -- we`re very concerned. And as a matter of fact, our sheriff, Sheriff Doug Gillespie (ph), is going to be talking to the local media here today at about 6:30 to see what he has to say. And I`m sure that he`s going to be talking about what we`re going to be doing to make sure that our schools are safer. So certainly, we are -- we are very concerned yes, ma`am, with six juveniles getting hit. Whether they were the intended targets or not, they`re still juveniles, they`re citizens of our community, and we have the duty to protect them and keep them safe.
LALAMA: Yes. Yes. And you know, you`re doing a great job with very little information helping us out here. We`re so appreciative. So let me just keep asking you questions you may not be able to answer. Do you know if the perpetrators were students?
MONTOYA: That I do not know. We don`t know. We did get information that they`re probably high-school-age students, but that has not been confirmed at this time.
LALAMA: And we don`t know whet her whether they were in the school with guns?
MONTOYA: That is correct. We do not know that.
LALAMA: John Shaffer, as a reporter -- you`re from KDWN 720 AM radio -- when`s the last time you heard of something like this?
SHAFFER: Oh, this many people being shot at one time at a school? This has been the first for this many in the time that I`ve lived in Las Vegas, although there have been incidents at the schools here in the past, as well as off the school grounds. And it`s -- I don`t want to say it`s something that happens a lot because it doesn`t, but this is a big city with a lot of people, and things like this happen. Unfortunately, this is what will get all the attention.
LALAMA: Yes, it will get attention, and any time you`re involving students and guns, you know, the shock factor is just too great to ignore and it`s scary for parents, I can tell you.
Dr. Jay Coates, the two patients that you have who are serious, what`s next for them? Are they about to undergo surgery? Do you have them stabilized?
COATES: No, actually, sorry, the two that came in have already undergone surgery.
LALAMA: OK.
COATES: We had them in the OR -- like I said, we had them in the OR probably five or six minutes after they got here, treated their wounds. They`re in the intensive care unit right now. Both are ventilated, and it`s a matter of recovery, at this point in time.
LALAMA: Is -- now, the little girl, or the young girl, I should say - - she`s either 16 or 17 -- is she one that`s going to be OK?
COATES: She had relatively minor injuries, yes.
LALAMA: All right. So she`s all right. So again, to repeat, we`ve got two discharged, two under observation and two serious. And of course, the serious, I mean, you`re just going to be monitoring for the next, you know, however long it takes.
COATES: Correct.
LALAMA: Have you spoken to the families? And how are they doing?
COATES: Family are en route. I`ve spoken on the telephone, but they`re en route, and we`re going to speak to them in person here in just a little bit.
LALAMA: All right. And Doctor, I mean, is it hard for you, as a doctor, to see something like this happen in your town, too?
COATES: Well, yes, it`s always hard. There`s always a different atmosphere in the trauma bay, you know, when there`s children, especially when there`s multiple children injured in a manner like this. And it tends to be pretty quiet and everybody`s just down and trying to do their job and make sure we do everything to the best of our ability.
LALAMA: John Shaffer, what do you know about the search for the perpetrators? Do we have any clue, you know, what area they might be in? Did they flee on foot? Did they have a car? What do we know?
SHAFFER: That I don`t know. I don`t know if they fled on foot or on car. The police didn`t say when they held their press conference for us about 45 minutes ago. They just said that they were in the area and then they were gone.
LALAMA: All right. We`re going to take a caller. Tabitha, hello. I know you`re from Connecticut. And what question do you have for us?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know if there are, like, traffic cameras.
LALAMA: Very good question. John Shaffer, in that neighborhood -- it looks like a pretty busy one -- would there be traffic cameras or anything that might be able to have captured anything on tape?
SHAFFER: You know, that`s the funny thing. In a place where, the minute you walk in a casino to the minute you leave, you are under surveillance, we do not have traffic cameras. There are a few in North Las Vegas. There is one traffic camera in Las Vegas city proper, but I don`t believe there are any in that area.
LALAMA: Very interesting. And a fabulous question, Tabitha. Thank you very much for being a good detective there for us. Were there -- John, do we know if there are any eyewitnesses? I mean, were there -- I know you`ve already addressed this somewhat, but I`m just trying to get a sense of -- were there a lot of cars in the area who might have seen something, people walking down the street, or it is just a quiet residential?
SHAFFER: Some of the people reporters on the scene had talked to didn`t see anything but heard it. They were -- somewhere napping because people here, of course, work 24 hours a day...
LALAMA: Right.
SHAFFER: ... (INAUDIBLE) of the town. They were asleep and were awakened by the gunshots, but they didn`t see anything happen. They didn`t see any people running. They just heard gunshots and went outside. And then, of course, we talked to some of the students who said they were on the bus, as well. They said just out of nowhere, there was gunshots, and they took off running. They didn`t bother sticking around to see what was happening.
LALAMA: Wow. You know, I just want to ask Pat Brown, our good friend, criminal profiler, who I know is listening in on this -- very quickly, Pat, where do you begin with something like this?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Oh, well, I think one of the things we have to pay attention to is that we should pay attention to it. I was just thinking while I`m sitting here, if this is a gang-related item, that -- if you remember back to the movie "West Side Story," there were two gangs that wanted to meet and fight, and they picked a location, like, under the highway, away from the women, and they fought with fists and they got upset when somebody pulled out a knife. But now we have people shooting each other down in public and taking out bystanders. That`s a big change.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kids on that school bus told me they scattered as bullets flew by here on the corner of Walnut and Alexander. Metro police say a number of shots were fired, six kids hit, five boys and one girl, all around 16 to 17 years old, all taken to UMC, two in critical condition. Investigators say as the kids were exiting the school bus, at least two suspects approached and opened fire. Helicopters above looking for the shooters still at large. Apparently, the shooting can be traced back to a verbal altercation yesterday at Mohave High School. Witnesses rushed to the scene once they heard the gunshots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace with devastating breaking news. You`ve just heard it. We`ve got six people, one girl, five boys, between the ages of 16 and 17, all shot. We understand from the actual trauma surgeon that two have been released, two are under observation and two have serious wounds. And we`re looking for perpetrators.
We`ve got Josh from Nevada on the line. You live in the neighborhood, Josh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.
LALAMA: What can you tell us? Did you hear or see anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was pulling up from work and I seen the area taped off. And I seen it coming. There`s a lot of gangs coming up in the area. And I think it`s just -- the Las Vegas Police Department needs to step up to the plate because there`s a lot of gangs coming into the area from the Los Angeles area.
LALAMA: Yes, well, that I know, being from Los Angeles. I know it`s been a growing problem. Patricia Saunders, Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, you know, as anyone who has children in their lives, it just -- I can`t tell you -- I can`t -- I`m speechless, and I`m really speechless. What is happening here?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, Pat, I don`t think it`s all that different than what`s been happening all along. What makes things quite different, however, is the availability of assault weapons, illegal guns, to kids. Now, if this is gang-related, this is not news. A verbal altercation, when you disrespect somebody, is a matter of life or death for a gang member. And most adolescents are not known for their impulse control being good, but in gangs it`s sanctioned. And it...
LALAMA: Go ahead. Go ahead. Finish your thought.
SAUNDERS: And it would be actually a sign of valor, it would be good street cred to use an automatic weapon.
LALAMA: Well, you know, we don`t know yet what the situation is, who`s involved. But I`m thinking to myself, Susan Moss, family law attorney, you know, my not-gang kid -- as many, many thousands of kids are not involved in gangs at all -- could have been on that bus, could have been walking down the street. How do we solve this dilemma?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. It`s a true crisis. And the first key to any crisis is to go in and understand, and then to go in and try to educate. Not only do the police, but psychiatrists, psychologists and others need to go into the school and to explain to the kids in a way that is understood that in a momentary decision, these perpetrators have changed their lives, ruined their lives. They will be caught and they will go to jail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s some breaking news to tell you about right now. We`re just getting in that Las Vegas police say six young people, either in junior high or high school, have been shot after they got off a bus early this afternoon, once again, this happening in Las Vegas, Nevada, an officer telling the Associated Press that at least two individuals are suspected in the shooting. Gunshots rang out, according to the AP, right after the school bus left the area. Six have been transported to hospitals, four we`re receiving word of minor gunshot injuries, and two at this hour in critical condition. Once again, breaking news, Las Vegas police say six young people, either in junior high or high school, have been shot as they got off a school bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Back to John Shaffer, from - - let me get it straight -- 720 AM radio KDWN. The perpetrators -- repeat for us -- still at large, and we don`t know who they are?
SHAFFER: Still at large. Don`t know who they are. Don`t know if they`re in a gang. Don`t know if they were students at the high school or other people, although there are reports that they are juveniles.
LALAMA: OK. Grace from Virginia. Hello, Grace. And what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
LALAMA: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know, with the recent rash of shootings going on, do you think that in any way there could be some copycatting going on?
LALAMA: Oh, very, very good question. Let`s ask Joe Lawless that, defense attorney and author of "Prosecutorial Misconduct." You know, we know about the church. We know about all the things that have happened recently. Copycats?
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know if it`s necessarily copycats, Pat. I think gun violence has gotten pretty common out there. I think what we do know, though, here, unlike the church shootings, you`ve got stalking, lying in wait. It`s classic attempted murder. And if these kids die, it could be classic first-degree murder. These kids aren`t going to be treated as juveniles.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A reverend who counseled missing mom Stacy Peterson before her disappearance now reveals she made a stunning admission in the death of her husband`s former wife. That minister says the young mom opened up, revealing that Drew Peterson confessed to killing Kathleen Savio. Savio, found dead in a dry bathtub back in 2004. Results of the second autopsy have yet to be released, as the search goes on for Stacy Peterson in the Chicago suburbs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Hi, I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. Well, a day without Drew Peterson, well, I can hardly imagine, right, guys? And the latest, now he needs some money. And the very media that he claims to disdain he is now using, that would be new media, the Internet, to ask for money for his legal defense.
Mary Frances Bragiel, is the word audacity too harsh?
MARY FRANCES BRAGIEL, WBBM REPORTER: It depends who you ask. Defenddrew.com is all the rage at this point. He told me today that it was his lawyer who came up with it. When I logged on.
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: I figured as much.
BRAGIEL: And when I logged on and I tried to donate, it said that it wasn`t working. So I guess my money is no good.
LALAMA: Yes, well, hey, Kathy Chaney, why is it not working? What is the problem?
KATHY CHANEY, THE CHICAGO DEFENDER: I would like to know that as well. I went to the site less than an hour ago and the site has been suspended. So it doesn`t give an explanation of why.
LALAMA: Well, that can be a lot of different reasons. I don`t understand the Internet like a lot of people do. But it could be a lot of reasons. Perhaps he was flooded with people and it -- you know, it tore the system down, I don`t know.
Pat Brown, criminal profiler, let`s just get some comments. What do you think about Drew asking for money?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, why shouldn`t he? I mean, he is innocent. And all of these people should help him out, especially those women who think he is such a great guy. And it is interesting to also point out that, why does he need money for his legal defense when there isn`t going to be a trial? I mean, what have you done wrong? What evidence could there be to make you go to trial, Drew, so why should you start asking for money now?
LALAMA: Pre-emptive strike, maybe? Well, I`m going to get.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: I think he wants the money ahead of time.
LALAMA: Yes, but the lawyer says, I like this high-profile case. But I want the money.
Susan Moss, family law attorney, the way they are explaining this, first, for the legal defense fund, then they would use some money to hire a private investigator to help find Stacy and the rest would go to the kids. What do you think?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, the best part is his tagline. Donate the price of a cup of coffee. That is the same tagline that is used to raise money for underprivileged children in Africa. This guy gets a pension of $6,000 a month. He can also go and get a job. My vote, give the money to the underprivileged kids.
LALAMA: Well, John Burris, defense attorney, you guys do a lot of pro bono work, God bless you, but you are entitled to get paid. Is there anything wrong with asking for help? I mean, listen, he is innocent until proven guilty, right?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, of course, of course he is innocent until proven guilty, and there have been no charges. I mean, I find it a little crass myself. I mean, I certainly wouldn`t recommend doing this kind of thing. But at the same time, I mean, if he feels like he is really down and out with money, I don`t like this form of advertising for money.
But I don`t think there is anything wrong or improper about it. At the end of the day he has to deal with his legal counsel in terms of these allegations even if he is never charged. He has hired a lawyer, a lawyer has to then go do things. And if he doesn`t have the money to pay him, maybe this is the way to get it done. I don`t recommend it, be he has a right to do it.
LALAMA: But would you accept money like that, Joe Lawless? Would you accept money that came from the Internet?
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think if he is raising money in any way that is legal, a lawyer is entitled to be paid. And I can guarantee you, if you`re charged with murder, it`s not inexpensive. And I disagree with Susan, his pension, his house, his home, if he is charged with murder, and I think he is going to be, that is not going to cover the cost of this. And he is going to stand trial for his life. He is entitled to a defense.
LALAMA: But, Susan Moss, the way it is put, as somebody suggested in the newsroom today, that, how about public relations 101, maybe put looking for Stacy first, then my legal defense fund, I`m innocent but if I should get charged. I mean, how about the order of things here?
MOSS: Absolutely. This guy puts the I in idiot. Absolutely. And this whole jury, anyone who is looking at this picture, he is just making this worse and worse and worse for himself.
LALAMA: All right. Let`s go to a caller. I can`t wait to hear what the callers think tonight. Dennis from Illinois, what have you got for us, Dennis?
CALLER: I want to know, given all the media coverage, do you think this guy can get a fair trial?
LALAMA: Well, you know what? We do joke and we do poke fun, but you know, it is a really legitimate question. At this point, Pat Brown, you know, if he gets charged, have all potential jurors been tainted?
BROWN: Well, I`m one who has never been that fond of our present jury system anyway because I think we need a professional jury to take care of the problem of, let`s see who we can find out there who hasn`t heard anything and who can`t get out of jury duty and who doesn`t know anything and who hasn`t been trained in anything and can`t understand half the stuff that is out there. And let`s have them do a crash course out in the courtroom to try to figure out what is right and wrong. I think it is nuts anyway. So I don`t know. I guess it is going to be a crap shoot, you know?
LALAMA: Yes. Well, you know, before we go on to the other issue of the day, which is the minister, let`s at least update the search for Stacy. We should do that. And we will go to Mary Frances Bragiel for that.
The canal is still the interesting point, right?
BRAGIEL: Exactly. They were back at the canal today. And it is my understanding that they are using this state of the art equipment -- sonar equipment, that came from Minnesota. And basically what they will be able to do is put this equipment into the water and shoot video backup into the boat.
So instead of just looking all over the canal, they can focus on one or two areas. And they say, look, that looks like a blue barrel, bring that up, right on the spot.
LALAMA: OK. Thanks. Kathy Chaney, real quickly, is the canal, is there something specific you`ve heard about why they are going there and concentrating a lot of money and effort and resources in this area?
CHANEY: Yes. Authorities decline to say what exactly they are looking for and why they chose that site.
LALAMA: Dr. Jake Deutsch, doctor of emergency medicine, a submerged body, if there would be one, how critical is that? How tough does that make an investigation?
DR. JAKE DEUTSCH, DOCTOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE: Well, the water is going to be a difficult factor. I think it is the worst case of an environmental exposure in terms of destroying evidence and having things disappear. If there is actually a container, it may be kind of a time capsule though in terms of preserving the body and keeping some of the genetic and other information that we want to ascertain.
LALAMA: So you are saying if it is like airtight it could help the elements -- keep the elements away.
DEUTSCH: If that is the case, it may be beneficial.
LALAMA: OK. Well, you know, the other interesting thing of the day is what the minister of Stacy Peterson has told certain people. He is now coming forward saying that, hey, she told me that Drew did it. That he told her he did it. And by "did it," what do we mean, Mary Frances?
BRAGIEL: This is not new information. A local columnist out here reported this about two weeks ago. And I asked Drew about it today. I asked him if he knew the pastor and he said, yes. And I asked him, I said, do you think that he is credible? And he said, I don`t think anybody is credible at this point. He said, I did, you know, before she disappeared. But at this point, I don`t find anybody credible.
LALAMA: Well, and the fact of the matter, Joe Lawless, is that, you know, this is hearsay. It wouldn`t go anywhere, correct?
LAWLESS: Well, yes. I wouldn`t go anywhere. I think the reverend is an Andy Warhol witness. Everybody gets their 15 minutes of fame. A legitimate witness to something like this doesn`t decide the appropriate forum to discuss it is in a televised interview. He talks to the police, he keeps his mouth shut, he preserves the integrity of anything he has to say for a possible proceeding. I think this is another nutjob who came out from under a rock.
LALAMA: Whoa, that is harsh. Susan Moss, do you think he is making it up or what do you think he made him decide to go to the media?
MOSS: I don`t. And I`m OK with him going to the media, because the reality is what he has to say is hearsay. It is not a dying utterance. It is not an excited utterance. And it is never going to see the light of day in a court. So the only time -- the only way to get this information out is for him to go public.
LALAMA: Well, you know what is interesting, John Burris, is right after she went to is see the minister, he claims that as soon as she got home, and he looked at his voicemail, he already had a voicemail from Drew saying, I would like to come in and talk to you, too. Do you think he got a little scared?
BURRIS: I don`t know. My feeling about it is like everyone else. This guy is kind of nutty.
LALAMA: You mean the minister? The minister you are talking about?
BURRIS: The minister. I think the minister is kind of nutty here. And I think that it has no real legal significance. I don`t even see, in terms of publicity, it doesn`t help or hurt this particular person. It only creates controversy around him. But in terms of legally, it has no real significance one way or the other.
LALAMA: So basically no evidentiary value at all, correct?
BURRIS: It has not evidentiary value, it is not a dying declaration. And even if he was a preacher, I mean, there is a certain kind of privilege here. Why is he violating the privilege unless he knows that this person is dead or not or it doesn`t matter to him? So I just don`t think he has the kind of credibility that would matter at all, period.
LALAMA: Well, and you are just not -- you just think he is irrelevant then, very quickly?
BURRIS: He is irrelevant ultimately, whether there is any effort to prosecute Mr. Peterson.
LALAMA: Tonight, exciting news, coming soon, exclusive video of Nancy at home with those twins that will make its debut on Nancy`s Baby Blog. And check out the latest messages from Nancy about Lucy and John. It is all at cnn.com/nancygrace. And remember, Nancy returns to HEADLINE NEWS January 7, 8:00 Eastern in this chair. So mark your calendars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Sasha Brown (ph) from ATC 115 (ph) serving (INAUDIBLE), Iraq. I would like to say Season`s Greetings from everybody back home. I love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Stacy knew that his third wife was found dead. Was she ever concerned about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She told us that Drew had told her that she was on medication -- Kathleen was on medication and she stood up and (INAUDIBLE) slipped and hit her head. Now Stacy, at that young, naive age, she believed it.
TUCHMAN: Did you ever doubt the story?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right from the start when I first heard it, I turned to (INAUDIBLE), I said, he killed her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. Something I want to get straight, I need the lawyers to do this. When you are told something about a crime and you are one of those privileged people, like a reverend, for example, you are under no obligation to tell anybody about a crime that happened, but one that could happen in the future. John Burris, is that true?
BURRIS: Well, certainly if one has already happened, you have no duty to do anything then. I do think that if you get information and someone tells you that it is going to cost someone to be injured, whether they are going to be killed or threatened or (INAUDIBLE) -- I think you do have a duty then to come forward with that, particularly if you are a professional person, a psychologist, teacher, et cetera.
But you don`t generally have an obligation once you know of a crime that has been committed to come forward and tell anyone. I don`t care how you get the information.
LALAMA: Well, you know, let me ask you this, Susan Moss, people keep asking, what`s his motive, and you talk about the Andy Warhol and the 15 minutes of fame. Could it be a conscience issue for him, that he feels badly that he didn`t do something more?
MOSS: Oh, I`m sure this guy is having a very difficult time going to sleep. He probably blames himself. If only he had -- could convince Stacy to have gone forward and do something.
LALAMA: All right. Let`s go to some callers. Rita, Ohio. Hi, Rita. What is your question?
CALLER: Yes. I have two quick questions. Do you think that this man`s persona could be an act? And my other question is, he had to have help to get the container out of his house. Wouldn`t he have to have help getting it back out of his truck?
LALAMA: Well, that is a good question. Pat Brown, there is a lot of question about, you know, if he did it, he needed help, where are those people, how helpful are they? How do you weigh in on that?
BROWN: Well, that is a good question. I wondered that myself. You know, if he needed somebody to move that barrel into his vehicle, how easy was it for him to pull it out on the other end? Why didn`t he need help then? Except for the fact that the possibility is if the barrel was, for example, upstairs and had to come all the way down the stairs and down another flight and out to the car. It was a long way.
That might have been more difficult than if he simply pulled up someplace and just had to shove it into the location he was looking at. So I guess he could get away with just one person on the other end. It is possible.
LALAMA: I thought one of the things that what was interesting, Susan Moss, is that the minister does say, she talked about her children incessantly. She loved those kids. That`s significant, is it not?
BROWN: It is absolutely significant, because she would have never left those children. And it gives another motive, maybe she didn`t leave Drew because she was terrified of what would happen to her children if they were alone with him.
LALAMA: And you know, Patricia Saunders (ph), this whole issue of whether a woman or any parent gets up and leaves their children because they found somebody else, that just doesn`t happen that often?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It is very, very rare for a mom to just walk off, and especially with young children, Pat.
LALAMA: Pat Brown, you know, she talks about -- or the minister said she had specific information. She wasn`t just speculating. That is really big, but, again, it can`t be used. Now, here`s my question. If she does have -- if she told the minister specific information and the cops know it now, can the cops use that specific information to investigate the crime?
Pat Brown.
BROWN: Oh, I`m sorry. We had a radio problem here. But.
LALAMA: Do you want me to repeat?
BROWN: Yes -- no. I heard it finally. Well, of course they are going to use whatever they have coming in. I mean, I would if I got some specific little information that is going to get me, you know, my little antennas up. I`m certainly going to pursue that. And it would be interesting if that man, the minister did say Stacy said something that no one should know but the person who did the crime, then that is extremely interesting information.
LALAMA: Well, that is what I`m saying, Joe Lawless, even though we know that this is all hearsay and it can`t go into court. But you know, if I`m a police officer, aren`t I now -- am I going to go knock on the minister`s door and say, what were those specific points of information, and then use that? Is that -- it would be legal to go investigate, right?
LAWLESS: Oh, it would absolutely be legal to do that, Pat. But there is one thing that I disagree with. I think if Stacy Peterson was told by her husband, yes, I killed her, she wouldn`t stay with him out of fear. She would take her kids, who she loved and cared about, and move out and take them someplace away from him to protect them from him. She wouldn`t stay there out of fear of what might happen. She knows what would happen if he made that statement to her, which is why I don`t think he did.
LALAMA: Dr. Jake Deutsch, we always need to ask you this, because it is important, the timeline is important. The longer time goes in search for this woman, the harder to solve the crime, is it not?
DEUTSCH: Absolutely. I mean, we are looking at several weeks at this point. So our fingers are crossed that there is going to be some viable evidence. But as time ticks by, things are going to will be much more difficult for the medical examiner and the other people using forensics.
LALAMA: And then going into wife number three, Kathleen Savio, while we are waiting for details, we may never get them. But the point is -- the fact of the matter is, even if someone officially says whoops, sorry, this wasn`t an accident, this was a homicide, trying to pin somebody three years later is not an easy job as well, is it not?
DEUTSCH: Sure. They may be able to find a cause of death, but it doesn`t necessarily relate who is the perpetrator. So we are hopeful that we are going to get some viable information but it doesn`t guarantee anything.
LALAMA: Well, according to the minister, back now of course to Stacy Peterson, Drew told Stacy the morning after it happened. Susan Moss, do you wonder how she could live with this guy? I mean, if this is true, OK, I guess I`ll just keep living with the guy. He is a murderer, but what the heck?
MOSS: Well, what if she was a battered woman? What if she was suffered from something like Battered Woman`s Syndrome where she was convinced that he was all controlling, that Drew had this amazing power? Remember, he was a police officer. He was significantly older. He was significantly bigger than her. He issued a tremendous amount of control over her life.
If she was convinced in her mind that there was no way that she could get away from this man, no way she can go with her kids to make sure that they were safe, and remember, two of those kids weren`t biologically hers that she had a relationship with, maybe she felt like she had to stay.
LALAMA: Well, John Burris, I will pose the same question to you. I mean, it was earlier on in their relationship. I don`t know. It would scare me enough to go away.
BURRIS: It is surprising that she would have stayed. I think, just, though, if she actually told the preacher this, that person should have gone to the police right away. That could have then allowed the police to investigate with private information without everyone knowing about it.
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LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. Let`s not forget Wednesday is "I want my guns back day." John Burris, should Drew Peterson get his guns back?
BURRIS: Yes.
LALAMA: Really?
BURRIS: There is no reason why they should keep his guns. Why should they keep his guns?
LALAMA: Wait, I`m going to get you in a fight right now. OK. Susan...
BURRIS: No, he hasn`t committed any crime that they can prove. Why shouldn`t he have his guns back?
LALAMA: Susan.
BURRIS: Absolutely, he should get his guns back.
MOSS: Yes -- no. They have the right to continue looking at this information, seeing if there is anything else that will help them solve this crime. Boo-hoo. He doesn`t get his guns back today. Maybe tomorrow.
LALAMA: Pat Brown.
BURRIS: Today.
BROWN: Both guns back, he will be using the guns that they know he has rather than get a gun that they won`t know he has. Could be an advantage.
LALAMA: Oh, my goodness. Mary Frances, what is expected to happen tomorrow morning? And do we think Drew will be there?
BRAGIEL: Drew told me today that he was not going to be there, because it was a legal matter that he just didn`t need to be there. But I can guarantee you, every other media outlet in the Chicago area will be there.
LALAMA: And, Kathy Chaney, are you buying that he is not going to show up?
CHANEY: You know what, this time I`m going to buy it for a few minutes. But you know what, it may change and he may show up.
LALAMA: Joe Lawless, you know, my understanding is that a judge would have every discretion to say, look, you know, there is reasonable suspicion here and you are not getting them back right now.
LAWLESS: The state has the right to hold them while they are investigating the crime. And it would be wildly unpopular for the judge to release them. Even though he has the right to do it and the judge has the discretion, those guns aren`t going anywhere.
LALAMA: And do you agree with that?
(CROSSTALK)
LAWLESS: I think under the circumstances it is potential evidence of a crime. Until you have an investigation completed, he is not going to be hurt by not having them for a while. I don`t see it is a big deal.
LALAMA: OK. Thanks, guys.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Jason Marchand, just 26, from Greenwood, West Virginia, a loving and kind friend. Marchand never met a stranger. He loved football, track and phoning his mom from Iraq whom he shared a special bond with. He leaves behind grieving mom Debbie (ph), dad William, and a 6-year-old girl Savannah. Jason Marchand, an American hero.
Thank you to all our guests and to you at home for being with us. And remember visit Nancy`s Baby Blog, cnn.com/nancygrace. See you tomorrow 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, have a great evening.
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