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Nancy Grace

Newborn Found in Queens Dumpster

Aired December 18, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MIKE BROOKS, GUEST HOST: Tonight: A newborn infant girl just hours old, thrown away like the garbage on a cold winter`s night. A group of teenagers hear wailing from a dumpster, only to find a baby girl wrapped in a blanket and stuffed in a paper bag, her umbilical cord still attached, the temperatures dipping into the 20s. Tonight: Who left this little infant girl to die?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They heard a sound in the night, a group of teens skateboarding around 8:00 o`clock Monday. It was a baby`s cry. What they found on top of a construction site dumpster was a baby girl wrapped in a blanket inside a brown paper bag. The baby`s umbilical cord was still attached. The teenagers knew they had to do something, leaving friends behind to stay with the baby. EMS arrived at the scene and took the baby to Elmhurst Hospital, where she`s in stable condition. EMS says the baby was only around three hours old when she was found and lucky to be alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: And tonight: The prison breakout being compared to the hit movie "The Shawshank Redemption," two New Jersey inmates on the run after breaking free from a high-security jail, digging their way through their cells by using wire and a metal knob. Their cover-up? Dummies hidden under their bedsheets and posters of bikini-clad women to hide the holes. They even leave behind a note taunting authorities, wishing them happy holidays. And prison officials reveal one of these inmates tried the same escape just months ago. Tonight, an all-out manhunt under way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Espinosa was looking at 17 years for manslaughter. Otis Blunt was facing robbery and weapons charges. Together they hatched a plan to chip their way out of doing hard time.

The guards noticed both inmates missing from their high-security cells at the Union County jail at 5:15 PM Saturday. They found this metal wire and say they believe Blunt used it as a tool to chip away a hole into Espinosa`s adjoining cell. Then they used it to chisel an 18-inch-wide hole from Espinosa`s cell to the outside. The holes were concealed with pin-up posters. That`s basically what a character in the critically acclaimed film "The Shawshank Redemption" did to escape. The duo left a note to a guard reading, "Thank you officer for the tools needed. You`re a real pal. Happy holidays."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. First tonight, a newborn infant girl found abandoned in a dumpster, thrown away like the garbage!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of teens skateboarding through Queens found a baby just hours old alive in a garbage bin. The boys say they were surprised to hear the baby crying. Emergency medical responders said the baby would have died if it weren`t for those two teenagers. She`s now in stable condition. Nobody has come forward to claim the newborn girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was skateboarding back home, and we found a baby in the dumpster. (INAUDIBLE) friends (INAUDIBLE) And we unwrapped the baby and we brought (ph) the ambulance, and we told them that we found a baby and (INAUDIBLE) as soon as possible. So I (INAUDIBLE) I told them that it was a baby in a bag (INAUDIBLE) come back and they send somebody over here. When I came back, there was a baby inside the ambulance. I was shocked, and so -- I don`t even (INAUDIBLE) nothing about it. Like, I didn`t want to touch it because I was so shocked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. A baby just hours old thrown out like garbage in a construction dumpster on the streets of Queens, New York.

For the latest, joining us here in New York, Sonia Rincon, reporter for 10 WINS. Sonia, tell us what happened?

SONIA RINCON, 1010 WINS: Well, last night, as you saw, those kids skateboarding by happened to hear the baby`s cries from that dumpster, and they found the child. And the ambulance came shortly thereafter and the EMTs brought the little baby into the ambulance, where they warmed her up. She was suffering from a mild case of hypothermia.

They say that she couldn`t have been there for more than half an hour, and that if -- doctors say that if she had been there much longer, she probably would not have survived. They think she was no more than 3 hours old.

And right now, she`s in intensive care for observation. She weighs 4 pounds, 9 ounces, and is a healthy premie, according to the doctors at Elmhurst Hospital. They say she`s doing remarkably well. They`re very impressed with how she`s doing. She took her first bottle this morning. And they`ve nicknamed her baby Christina because she was born so close to Christmas.

BROOKS: Oh, baby Christina! That is a story. You know, they talk about teenagers not doing the right things. Here`s some skateboarders. They`re out in the middle of the night. It`s a little chilly. It was very cold here in New York last night. How long had they been in the area before they heard the noise coming from the dumpster?

RINCON: They were just skateboarding by at the right time. And they did do the right thing. The EMTs there at the scene said, you know, it`s a good thing that they called 91 when they did.

BROOKS: Now, it wasn`t like this person, whoever it was that placed this baby in a paper bag, like the garbage -- it wasn`t like they placed it alongside the dumpster, it was actually up inside the dumper. And didn`t one of the teenagers actually have to climb up into the dumpster to retrieve the baby?

RINCON: That`s right. She was wrapped in a blanket and in a paper bag with the umbilical cord attached, and there was still some blood on her. And again, no more than 3 hours old.

BROOKS: Well, I want to say to these teens, if you`re watching tonight, thank you. You did the right thing. Two of them climbed up to get the baby, and two of them went down a block away down to the station house, the 110th Precinct. They went down to the 110 and let somebody know where they were. And EMS came out and found them and treated the baby.

Right now, I want to bring in, joining us from New York, Dr. Marc Siegel. He`s a physician. He`s an internist and author of "False Alarm" and former ER doc at New York University Bellevue (ph). Doctor, thank you for being with us.

DR. MARC SIEGEL, INTERNIST: Thanks, Mike, for having me.

BROOKS: Now, this baby -- I mean, these teenagers did the right thing. Now, they said -- now, you just heard from Sonia that this baby was just hours old. How long -- if these teens had not found this baby, how long would this baby have lasted in the cold temperatures last night?

SIEGEL: Well, Mike, not much longer than this, maybe an hour or two longer at the most. Luckily, a hospital was nearby. But babies don`t have much in the way of insulation, especially newborn. You know, they don`t have anything to keep them warm. They need warmth most of all, and they need fluids. And basically, you know, without that -- now, one thing going for this baby at this time, by the way, conversely, the cold temperatures actually preserved the organs a little longer than you might think. That might have bought the baby a little time, actually, the cold. But the baby was starting to get really cold, and I don`t think this baby would have lasted another hour, hour-and-a-half maximum.

BROOKS: Now, we heard this baby is 4 pounds, 9 ounces. Does it say to you that this baby probably went full term?

SIEGEL: I don`t think the baby went full term. I think Sonia`s right. I think the baby was probably a premie, but you know, fully developed, in the sense that probably 8 months, which is considered close to full term. But that means even less insulation.

Now, the baby was crying and kicking. That`s a very good sign in terms of an Apgar score that the baby at birth is probably there, you know, mentally and fully developed. So these guys are heroes. I think they`ve saved this baby`s life, and the baby should probably do quite well.

BROOKS: I want to go back out to Sonia Rincon, reporter with 1010 WINS here in New York. Sonia, you know, we hear these guys, what they did. They did a great job. Now, did the teens -- did they live in the neighborhood?

RINCON: We don`t know where they lived. They just happened to be passing by at the time. Police have been scouring the neighborhood, just looking, knocking on doors, asking people if they knew of any pregnant women in the area. And so far, they`re still looking for the mom.

BROOKS: That was going to be my next question. You know, as a former investigator, we would have done a neighborhood canvass, trying to find out exactly who this mom is. Has anybody that they`ve come across -- has -- have the cops said anything at all about maybe someone who might have been in the neighborhood, that someone may have recognized the baby or somebody, you know, the woman as being pregnant, someone at all, anybody at all?

RINCON: Well, no. They say it`s just still under investigation.

BROOKS: Now, I want to go out to our attorneys in Atlanta. Joining us, Ray Giudice, defense attorney, and Penny Douglass Furr. Now, you know, there are safe haven laws that you can -- especially in New York. And we`re going to talk more about safe haven laws. But basically, in New York, you can leave a baby with anybody. You don`t even have to take a baby to a hospital. They threw -- whoever this was threw this baby out like the garbage! I think if they find this woman that she should be locked up. Ray?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Mike, I can`t say that these aren`t horrible facts. And thank goodness the baby`s doing well. But Mike, the other side of the story that we`re going to learn very soon is that this is probably a teenage girl, a minority, undereducated, poor, scared, with, I guarantee you, an abusive boyfriend or some family member that actually committed this crime. And that young lady needs as much help as that baby needs.

BROOKS: Penny, what do you think?

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree with Ray. I think that we need to do something to help educate these young teenagers because I think the girl is probably scared to death. She`s probably got an abusive parent, an abusive boyfriend, as Ray said. And they`re really scared. They don`t know what to do. You have to explain that these -- there are people who want this baby, and if they do not want the baby or can`t care for the baby, they can find a safe place for the baby. But there`s somewhere a petrified little girl that was scared to death. I`ll guarantee you this is what we`ll find.

BROOKS: Well, both of you have mentioned education of women who are pregnant. And joining us is a very special guest from Irvine, California. It`s Debi Faris. She`s founder and director of Garden of Angels, a wonderful organization. Debi has been on the show before. We`ve talked about safe havens. Now, Debi, tell us a little bit about the New York safe haven law. Isn`t it one of the most liberal in the country?

DEBI FARIS, FOUNDER & DIRECTOR, GARDEN OF ANGELS: Yes, it is, Mike. You can safely surrender your baby with any adult, responsible adult, or any hospital or fire station. So there was no reason for this girl not to be able to turn to somebody and take care of that baby.

BROOKS: Well, you know, the other thing, Debi, too, is when we`ve heard -- we hear about cases like this. And I`ve always said in previous shows that I don`t think -- and we just heard from Ray and Penny that there`s not enough education about safe haven laws anywhere in the country.

FARIS: That is so true. We really need our schools to step up and be in the forefront of helping to educate these young people. They need to have a program in their "ed for living" and any other classes from 7th grade through college. And that`s one of the things that we`re working on trying to get state by state, for all the schools to get into the education portion of this.

BROOKS: Now, are there any states on line already that do mandate programs such as what you`re speaking of?

FARIS: Well, California is a state that is mandating this, but that doesn`t always mean that it`s happening. You have to be very proactive and be in the school system and ask to be invited in and asked to have the materials and this issue discussed.

BROOKS: And I think you said the magic word right there. You have to be proactive.

I want to go out to the lines. Joining us, Ted from Pennsylvania. Thanks for being with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good evening, Mike. Happy holidays.

BROOKS: Same to you. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a quick question. If you have a license to drive a car, why can`t you have a license to take care of a child? Because there are so many kids these days being abandoned by parents who just don`t want to take care of them.

BROOKS: I want to go out to Leslie Austin joining us here in New York, psychotherapist and body language expert. I think he`s got a good point, Leslie.

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST AND BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, in theory, yes. Of course, you can`t mandate biology, so people are going to have babies. But ideally, we should do a lot of education. And we also need to point out that -- I have a lot of sympathy for the terrified young girl who did this, but she also somewhere crossed some line. There`s a difference between handing your baby over to someone anywhere, if you are too terrified to take care of it, and trying to kill it, which is what happened here, whether she intended it or not. And I think in some ways, she wanted to get rid of it. That does cross the line, and education is sorely needed here to let kids know you can take care of your baby, give it away, make it safe. Don`t kill it.

BROOKS: I want to go back out to Sonia Rincon, reporter for 1010 WINS here in New York. Sonia, tell us a little bit about the neighborhood, the demographics. You know, what kind of people live in this particular neighborhood in Queens?

RINCON: Well, it`s Elmhurst, Queens, and it is a predominantly Hispanic area. And the doctors today said that they believe it`s very likely that the baby was of Hispanic origin.

BROOKS: That`s very interesting. I want to go back out to Debi Faris, founder and director of Garden of Angels. You know, one of the things about being proactive, Debi, is that in neighborhoods like this -- and there`s neighborhoods like this throughout the country that are bilingual, multi-lingual. Are there programs in place already that educate these people who need it in different languages?

FARIS: Well, that`s the challenge. We need to get it in multi- languages because we`re a country that is so diverse. There are programs that are out there, and people can go on the Web and look under "save haven" or "safe surrender" and find out a program, if it happens to be in your state, and how they can help bring education or awareness to this issue, this tragic issue.

BROOKS: Leslie Austin, psychotherapist and body language expert, what would bring a woman like this, even if she`s a minority, even if she`s young, to just abandon a baby? What factors play into what`s going through someone`s mind?

AUSTIN: You know, I`m sorry to say it`s possible she did not even know she was pregnant. It does happen, if you`re very young, you`re inexperienced. She may have suddenly just had the baby. I know it sounds bizarre. But our young people are not educated enough. They have no good impulse control. They want to have sex. They don`t -- they`re not responsible. And they`re not supported enough by the schools, by their families, by our society to know that you have to be an adult and you have to be responsible for your actions, you have to be careful.

BROOKS: Well, you`re absolutely right. And we hear of so many cases where there`s absolutely no pre-natal care. And you know, some people may say, How can someone know they`re not pregnant? (SIC) Well, we`ve seen many, many cases, and we`ve seen those cases right here on the NANCY GRACE show.

To tonight`s "Case Alert." Diver continue searching an Illinois canal in the investigation of missing mom Stacy Peterson, this just one day after a judge rejects a motion by Drew Peterson to return evidence seized from his home, including two family cars and 11 guns. Peterson`s attorney also wants a special prosecutor to investigate leaks from a grand jury. Stacy Peterson vanished October 28 in the Chicago suburbs, the state also reinvestigating the suspicious death of Drew Peterson`s third wife, Kathleen Savio.

When we come back: We`re on the search of who dumped a newborn baby in a dumpster.

But first, it`s a brand-new message from Nancy about the twins. Head over to CNN.com/nancygrace, click on the baby blog. And coming soon, video of Nancy with the twins will make its debut. That`s all at CNN.com/nancygrace.

And exciting news. Nancy is back on Headline News January 7, 8:00 PM Eastern. Mark it down on your calendars and join us here on Headline News.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you hiding the fact that you are pregnant?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have a choice?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can leave your newborn infant 72 hours old or younger with an employee of any hospital emergency room or fire department -- safe, legal, confidential, no questions asked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. What you saw was a public service announcement from the group Garden of Angels. And we`re very, very fortunate to have the director and founder of that with us tonight, Debi Faris, joining us from Irvine, California. Debi, where can someone go to learn more about safe havens?

FARIS: Well, Mike, they can go to any -- like I mentioned, they can go on the Web and they could find out any information that they can by typing in "safe havens" or "safe surrender laws." And it will pop up all - - it should pop up all of the safe surrender laws for the 48 states that have it. The only two states that don`t have a safe surrender law Are Alaska and Nebraska. Or they can go to our Web site, Gardenofangels.org.

BROOKS: Two of the coldest states during this time of the year, Alaska and Nebraska. You need to get off your butts and get some legislation. This is a good thing. And people like Debi are doing a fantastic job. Debi, just one more question I just -- while we`re talking about this. How many children are lost each year in the United States in incidents like this, or just totally abandoned?

FARIS: Mike, that`s a very hard number to put together because there are so many children that their bodies are never even found. Most of the children that are found are found only by accident. This child was found alive, and for that I`m so grateful. And I want to say thank you to those teenagers for stopping and doing something.

BROOKS: You`re absolutely right. Those teenagers did the right thing.

Let`s go out to the phones. Joy from South Carolina, thanks for joining us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Mike.

BROOKS: Hi, Joy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. We miss Nancy terribly, but you`re doing a wonderful, wonderful job.

BROOKS: Well, thank you. She`ll be back on January 7, and I know you`ll be watching.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I put it on my calendar. My question is, Mike, I didn`t know what kind of area this was in. Was behind from -- was it housing development or was it maybe some kind of club or store? Was there any cameras that may have caught the vehicle that did this, or maybe she just walked up there, or he, whoever -- they just walked up there and left this poor little baby.

BROOKS: Well, you know, that is a great question. And you should have gone to Investigation 101 because that was one of the questions I asked today when one of our researchers were talking -- was talking to a detective from NYPD. Sonia Rincon had said that this is an area in Queens. And the police said, apparently, there were no surveillance or security cameras anywhere in the area. But a great question, Joy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They heard a sound in the night, a group of teens skateboarding around 8:00 o`clock Monday. It was a baby`s cry. What they found on top of a construction site dumpster was a baby girl wrapped in a blanket inside a brown paper bag. The baby`s umbilical cord was still attached. The teenagers knew they had to do something, leaving friends behind to stay with the baby. EMS arrived at the scene and took the baby to Elmhurst Hospital, where she`s in stable condition. EMS says the baby was only around 3 hours old when she was found and lucky to be alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. This poor little baby they`re now calling baby Christina, only 3 hours old, they believe, thrown away like garbage in a construction dumpster in Queens. To me, that is just unbelievable, despicable.

I want to go back out to Ray Giudice, defense attorney, also Penny Douglass Furr, defense attorney, joining us from Atlanta. Ray, if they ever find the mother of this child, what kind of charges will she face?

GIUDICE: Well, unfortunately, because of the circumstances -- the temperature, the dumpster, the way the baby was thrown in a paper bag -- you could be looking at attempted murder. Now, I really think that the young lady has some significant defenses, and a good defense lawyer would do a good job for her, but I think that could be the initial charge if you have an aggressive prosecution.

BROOKS: Dr. Marc Siegel, are there any long-term medical effects that this child may face because of the hypothermia that she may have experienced?

SIEGEL: Well, you know, that depends a lot on her initial condition when she gets back in the hospital. If she has some neurological damage in terms of slowness to respond, you know, she could have long-term effects. We have to see.

I also want to add that the mother might have well been suffering from postpartum depression. At least one in five mothers cause (ph) that.

BROOKS: ... escaped from a New Jersey prison, now on the run.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like a scene from an action flick, only this was a very real breakout. Two dangerous jail birds scratched and crawled their way out of the Union County Jail in Elizabeth. Otis Blunt was awaiting trial for armed robbery. Jose Espinosa waiting to learn his sentence for a fatal drive by shooting. They can add escape artist to their wrap sheets.

Blunt was in cell number B-310, Espinosa next door in B-311. Authorities believe they were able to chip away at an eight by 15 inch cinder block. Blunt squeezed through that hole into Espinosa`s cell, where another cinder block along the outside wall had also been removed. Police report the two slipped through and over a barbed wire fence, where they disappeared into the night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy grace. Two serious felon on the run in New Jersey as we speak. For the latest, let`s go to Catherine Paster, Union County Register. What is the latest in this case?

CATHERINE PASTER, "UNION COUNTY" REPORTER: Good evening. It was discovered at approximately 5:15 on Saturday evening that two county inmates were not in their cells. In their place, mattress foam was stuffed into their beds. Otis Blunt, who was in jail for weapons possession and involved in a robbery, had apparently chiseled through a concrete wall that stood between his cell and that of Espinosa`s.

Espinosa had also fashioned a similar hole leading to the outside. The two managed to escape by getting a running jump, and jumping 15 feet out and 30 feet down over razor wire fencing. The two then escaped to freedom by running in opposite direction.

BROOKS: It sounds like these two could compete in some prison Olympics, if -- when -- I don`t want to say if. It`s going to be when they are recaptured. Catherine, has there been any escape attempts at this particular facility before?

PASTER: Surprisingly enough, it was Blunt himself who attempted to escape in September earlier this year, in the exact same fashion he successfully pulled off in this escape.

BROOKS: Wait a minute. You are telling me this guy in September tried the same thing?

PASTER: That`s correct, the exact same way.

BROOKS: To me, that is amazing. We are going to talk more about that. We have a very special guest from Union County, New Jersey. It`s Ted Romankow. He`s the Union County prosecutor. He is leading the inmate investigation. Thank you for joining us.

TED ROMANKOW, UNION COUNTY PROSECUTOR: You`re welcome. Good evening.

BROOKS: Tell us exactly -- first of all, tell us a little bit about this facility.

ROMANKOW: Well, this facility was built in 1986 and it houses approximately 950 inmates. I think it is capable of housing 975. So, it is a fairly secure facility. It is constructed, probably on your screen right now, so you can see, of concrete block, reinforced. And the facility itself was prepared under standards back in the 20th century. So I think we may have to look at it more closely and maybe make some modifications to it.

BROOKS: Have there been any rehabs on this facility to upgrade the security, if you will?

ROMANKOW: Not any major ones since it was constructed. There will be, as you are aware -- there will be an investigation -- and we`ve already started that -- regarding the actual facility itself. We are going all the way back to the plans themselves. I understand the county is now in the process of hiring individual security experts to upgrade it.

BROOKS: Now, as far as the investigation goes, where does it stand right now? You say you have taken a look at the plans. Have you interviewed any of the officers on duty at the time of escape?

ROMANKOW: Let me tell you first of all, the most important thing, as far as my office is concerned, and I think all of law enforcement in Union County and in the state, is to recapture these two individuals. They are both dangerous. Jose Espinosa pled guilty to aggravated man-slaughter. He is facing 17 years in jail. He was about to be sentenced in January. He is considered dangerous.

Otis Blunt has been indicted for robbery and weapons charges. So our first priority is to capture these escapees. I`m happy to see that you have on your screen the pictures of both of these individuals because they are considered dangerous.

The second purpose that I have in my involvement -- and I`m normally not the individual who oversees this. I`m tithe chief law enforcement officer in the county by constitution under New Jersey law -- the second purpose is to make sure this facility is secure so it doesn`t happen again. We are already taking corrective measures in that regard.

The third purpose is to review the security measures. That includes the corrections officers. It includes the supervisors, right through the personnel that are part of this facility.

And finally, we are going to be involved in the internal affairs investigation to see what happened and see where we head from there. But as far as these prisoners are concerned, I`ll tell you this much, that we have law enforcement throughout the United States -- today, I spoke with Lieutenant Gill Cameron (ph) from the state police. I know she is very active. The state police are very active. The sheriff`s office is active.

We have federal agencies that are involved all around the United States. And we are doing quite a bit to find these two people.

BROOKS: I know. I want to stress to our viewers, as you see these pictures, if you see these people anywhere, anywhere in New Jersey, anywhere in this country, please approach them with extreme caution, as he said. They are extremely dangerous.

Right now, I want to go out to Robert Norton. He is the law enforcement attorney representing the guards, joining us by phone from Westfield, New Jersey. Thanks for being with us.

ROBERT NORTON, LAW ENFORCEMENT ATTORNEY: You`re welcome.

BROOKS: Now, you represent the guards. Do you represent the guards at this particular facility?

NORTON: Yes.

BROOKS: As a former law enforcement officer, I can tell you -- first thing, as an investigator, if I was looking at this, I would be looking inside.

NORTON: There`s absolutely no hint of any complicity, any inference of any criminal wrongdoing by any of the corrections officers.

BROOKS: OK, now, tell me a little bit about the area where these two inmates were housed. Was it a high security area?

NORTON: It used to be -- they changed the designation. It used to be called administrative segregation. The third floor is a rather busy floor. It houses detention, medical units and this other portion, which has single cell facility for inmates.

BROOKS: Mr. Norton, one of these guys had already tried to escape. So tell me why that -- why these officers, if they are in a high-security area, and they are supposed to be checked on at certain intervals -- tell me why they had pictures of bikini clad women up in their cells and why every time they weren`t told to take the wall and the whole cell wasn`t gone through with a fine tooth comb every time they were supposed to be checked?

NORTON: Well, the jail rules and regulations did not required that people take the wall -- according to the language you just used. They have to account, which means to make sure that the exact amount of personnel on the floor that should be. They don`t go in and check every inmate, have them stand there and identify them. Those are not the rules that were promulgated by the jail personnel -- the supervisors.

BROOKS: It is a possibility that as things are reviewed, that maybe - - I would say that procedures will probably change very shortly.

NORTON: I think that is a fair assessment.

BROOKS: I want to go to Ray Giudice and Penny Douglass, defense attorneys from Atlanta. Now, would there be any liability? These two guys are on the run, Ray. These two guys are on the run. They get involved in a chase. Someone is hurt. Someone is injured. Could this jail have any liability?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so at all, any kind of civil liability. First of all, there is the protection of what we`ve often called sovereign immunity, meaning how hard it is to sue the state or the government. Secondly, you would have to show negligence that the state knew about. As the officer -- the gentleman just testified, there doesn`t appear to be any.

BROOKS: We are going to talk more about this. But to tonight`s case alert -- case dismissed, Aruban prosecutors announced they will not file charges against three suspects in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Joran Van Der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are off the hook, the three men, allegedly the last people to see Natalee Holloway before she vanishes.

Prosecutors say there is insufficient evidence. The case will not go to trial. If they did, there would be an acquittal anyway. Just weeks ago, prosecutors said they had enough evidence to prove Holloway was dead and re-arrested the three suspects on suspicion of man-slaughter.

On a much lighter note, it`s a brand new message from Nancy about the twins. Head over to CNN.com/NancyGrace. Click on the Baby Blog. Coming soon, video of Nancy with the twins will make its debut. That is all at CNN.com/NancyGrace. And Nancy makes her much anticipated return right here on Headline News January 7, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Be sure to mark it down on your calendar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Officer blank, for the tools needed. You are a real pal. Happy holidays. There is a smiley face with a hand pointing to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. That`s the note that these two felons left after they escaped, for guards to find after they used a wire to cut through the concrete in between the block and go into the other person`s cell, and then they jumped almost 30 feet over a fence, over the razor wire. I want to go out to Dr. Marc Siegel, internist and author of "False Alarm," a former ER doc at Bellvue.

Dr. Siegel, they jumped 30 feet. Any normal person would have had a broken leg. Is it possible -- possible that these two could have been injured?

DR. MARC SIEGEL, AUTHOR, "FALSE ALARM": Absolutely, Mike. First of all, they could have been injured squeezing out of that small hole. In terms of falling, it looks like they went on to soft ground. If you jump from a parachute from a sky dive, the last ten feet are like a fall. People sometimes get hurt on that from ten feet. Imagine what 30 feet would do to you.

They may very well have gotten badly bruised or broken a bone.

BROOKS: Right now I want to go back out to Union County, New Jersey, joining us by phone, Ted Romankow. He`s the Union County prosecutor in leading the investigation into the escape. Now, when you found out they had escaped, what kind of evidence, if any, was outside of the fence?

ROMANKOW: Well, I went down there immediately and checked it out after going through the cell block itself. We went outside, looked on the opposite -- looked at the fence itself. You could see clearly when the officers were flashing their light on the easement portion of the railroad -- you could see two heel prints, two footprints. They had sunk into the ground.

There were stones all around. Not there withstanding, they hit with such an impact, they probably drove their feet into that ground by about two or three inches. There were two separate foot print marks about six or seven feet apart.

BROOKS: Now, these guys -- Let me give you a physical description. You have seen their pictures. But Jose Espinosa, 20 years old, 5`5, 155 pounds. Again, he was awaiting sentencing, and he faced a minimum of 17 years in prison. The other one, Otis Blunt, 32 years old, 5`9, 160 pounds. But it is a possibility that maybe they could have lost a little weight to try to squeeze through that small, small opening that they had.

Now, it is amazing to me they could even do that. I want to go to Leslie Lawson, psychotherapist and body language expert. Now, they have escaped. Is it most likely that they will go back to an area that they are familiar with?

DR. LESLIE LAWSON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, it is, because they are out there. They have no money, no papers, no identification. They are most likely to go somewhere where someone knows them who they think will help them, particularly if there is a possibility that they`re injured. The thing that will trip them up is that they are so cocky and so arrogant and think they will get away with this. They won`t.

Leaving that note, maybe trying to implicate a guard who might or might not have had anything to do with it, enormously cocky. They are going to make a mistake and they will be caught.

BROOKS: It is not a matter of if, but a matter of when they will be caught. You heard what Mr. Romankow said; you have sheriffs` officers. You`ve got the state police. I know they`ve got the U.S. Marshal Service, because I used to serve on a fugitive task force myself.

I want to go back to Catherine Paster, Union County Register. Is there any indication that they may have had someone waiting for them? And describe the area where this facility is located.

PASTER: This facility is located just steps away from the county administrative building in the city of Elizabeth. Now, there is no indication, as far as I`m aware of, that they had anybody waiting for them. We do know that Espinosa was a known member of the Bloods gang. There is a possibility, but I can`t confirm that at this time.

BROOKS: So Espinosa was a known gang-banger. Wasn`t he in jail for a drive by shooting on a Crypt?

PASTER: That is correct. He pled guilty to aggravated man-slaughter for the killing of Hassan Jackson (ph) in 2005.

BROOKS: Very interesting. Again, keep in mind that these two thugs should be considered armed and extremely dangerous. Let`s go out to the line. Sheeba from Illinois. Thanks for joining us Sheeba.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Mike. My question is; how could a guard or a CO there leave a piece of metal out? I`m a nurse. I used to work in a prison. I mean, we were shut down coming and going a lot of times. What was the deal with the wire being loose or laying around?

BROOKS: That is a good question for Mr. Ted Romankow. He is the Union County prosecutor, leading the investigation into the escape.

ROMANKOW: I can tell you that one of the implements they used was a valve device, which was used to turn water on and off. It was found in a closet area where there is a water line. That is right off the pot area where they sometimes exercise. It seems that one of them, either Blunt or Espinosa, pulled it off of the water line, secreted it somewhere, probably in his pants, brought it back inside.

The wire itself is interesting, because we are trying to determine where that wire has really come from. If you take a close look at the picture and the area where they escaped -- by the way, the area where they escaped wasn`t just 18 inches. There were two blocks that were knocked out. We are looking at an area that was approximately 18 inches wide, but about 16 inches in height. There was more than just 18 by six.

In that area, however, you will see some wire, which is in addition to the rebar. We are not sure if during the course of banging the concrete block they got that additional wire.

BROOKS: Mr. Romankow, were there any security cameras in this pod area at all?

ROMANKOW: No.

BROOKS: There were not?

ROMANKOW: That is one of the problems. As a matter of fact, there weren`t cameras that totally surrounded the facility. That we have resolved by adding additional manpower outside of the facility in the perimeter to make sure pending any changes that no one can get outside and leave the facility. Because you can see they can leave the facility, yet they are still inside.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people are considered dangerous. One was already convicted -- he pled guilty to aggravated manslaughter. He is a dangerous person. The other person has been charged with robbery, possession of the weapon. We ask the public not to get involved directly with these people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Two serious felons -- two inmates just on the run, trying to evade police. It is not a matter of if. It`s a matter of when they get them. I want to go back out to Penny Douglas, defense attorney. Penny, if somebody is harboring these people, quickly, what kind of charges do they face?

PENNY DOUGLAS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They could face charges for aiding and abetting. It`s a very serious charge. And they could have some major problems, so they should not do that.

BROOKS: I want to go back out to Robert Norton, law enforcement defense attorney who is representing the guards at this facility. I have heard that the guards who were involved in this are in the hospital now for anxiety related issues? What is up with that?

NORTON: That is not true. I believe some of the officers may have reported after the incident for a check up, but officers are not hospitalized. That is not correct.

BROOKS: But some officers did report to the hospital? That is true?

NORTON: That is true.

BROOKS: Were they injured? Why were they reported to the hospital?

NORTON: I don`t have any details. I can`t comment. Each individual officer has his own attorney.

BROOKS: Where does the investigation go by now and have you spoken to anybody yet?

NORTON: Have I?

BROOKS: Yes.

NORTON: Yes, I have spoken to most of the officers and their attorneys. I`m representing one of them. At this point, the ball is in the prosecutor`s court. We expect that some time in the future there may be departmental charges, which are internal charges filed by the county against the officers.

BROOKS: Mr. Norton, thank you for joining us. Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Samuel Pearson, only 28 years old, from Westerville, Ohio. An economics grad from Otterbine (ph) College, he was an accountant serving in the Army Financial Corps, before he enlisted in the Army Reserves. He loved sports, especially football. He leaves behind grieving parents, Randy, Caroline, three brothers, John, Andy and Richard, and sister Laura.

Samuel Pearson, an American hero. Thank you to all our guests and to you at home for being with us. Remember, visit Nancy`s Baby Blog at CNN.com/NancyGrace. See you back here tomorrow at 8:00 Eastern. Until then, stay safe.

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