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Nancy Grace

Missing California Family Found/Hunt Continues for Escaped NJ Inmates

Aired December 19, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MIKE BROOKS, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. They`re alive. A father and his three young children who disappear after heading into the northern California mountains are found safe, the family of four looking for their holiday Christmas tree when they vanish. Search and rescue teams battle rough terrain and snowstorms that pound the woods near Inskip. A police helicopter rescues the family after they see a "Help" sign made out of twigs, the clue left behind by the family, who huddles in a drainage culvert to survive. Tonight, the amazing rescue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A father and his three teenage children have been found alive in the rugged hills of northern California. We`re talking about 38-year-old Frederick Dominguez, his 14-year-old daughter and two sons, ages 12 and 18. They`d gone out into this rugged terrain to cut down a Christmas on Sunday. The father`s truck was found along a mountain road on Monday. The finding of that truck led to the family just after lunchtime. And again, they`re alive. They`re OK. Certainly going to go be checked out and reunited with their mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: And tonight, the manhunt for two New Jersey inmates who break free from a high-security jail "Shawshank Redemption" style. Their cover- up, dummies hidden under their bed sheets and posters of bikini-clad women to hide the holes they dig out of their cell walls. Tonight, one of the escapees` own mother says she wants her son to stay on the run. Why? And back at the jail, officials beef up security measures and uncover yet another escape attempt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New Jersey police now have the help of the U.S. marshals in the manhunt for two prison escapees, 32-year-old Otis Blunt and 22-year-old Jose Espinosa make a brazen escape from a high-security area of the Union County jail on Saturday, the men using a foot-long wire and a metal knob (ph) to scrape away cinderblock behind their cells. Then the inmates squeeze their way through the opening, jump onto a roof and then over a 25-foot-high fence. Authorities say the two could still be in the immediate area. The mother of Otis Blunt speaks out, saying she wants her son to keep on running because he`s been wrongly accused of an armed robbery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. First tonight, breaking news of a family of four who vanishes is rescued in the northern California mountains.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A desperate search in the steep hills of northern California -- it paid off. A man and his three children lost for three days in the snow with temperatures below freezing -- they were found alive. They were out there to find -- get this -- the perfect Christmas tree.

The family was flown out of the mountains by helicopter. They appear to be OK. The length of time they were missing, about three days, the harsh conditions -- you put those two together, people were incredibly worried about this family. It was Frederick Dominguez, his 15-year-old daughter, Alexis, and two sons, 18-year-old Christopher, 12-year-old Josh.

What they had done, they`d headed into the rugged area near Inskip, California, Sunday. They were just looking for a Christmas tree. All of a sudden, heavy snow hits. They were stuck for three days, could not find their way out. No one knew how to find them. No word from them, either. The family now being treated for hypothermia. Everyone is doing great. Everyone is very, very happy right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, the Dominguez family is found. All day long -- searchers looking for them for days, and all day long we were hoping for the outcome that we got tonight.

Joining us by phone from Paradise, California, is Barbara Sams, the maternal grandmother of the rescued kids. Ms. Sams, thank you for being with us.

BARBARA SAMS, GRANDMOTHER OF RESCUED CHILDREN: You`re welcome.

BROOKS: I bet you are extremely happy of the outcome today.

SAMS: Oh, I`m elated. I couldn`t be happier.

BROOKS: I bet you are. Tell us how you found out that they had been rescued.

SAMS: Oh, well, we initially got a phone call that they had found a beanie, a 49ers beanie that Josh had worn, and so they centered the search in the area where they found the beanie. And the skies cleared up, so they could bring a helicopter in. And they saw the word "Help" in the snow and somebody standing out by the word "Help" waving their arms. And about 10 minutes later, we got the news that they found all four of them.

BROOKS: That is fantastic news. And they had the wherewithal put out the word "Help" in twigs right next to a culvert. And when they heard the helicopter -- and thank God the weather broke because that area had been getting pounded with snowstorms and there was more snow expected to come.

Ms. Sams, had Freddie and the kids -- have they ever been up in this area before looking for a Christmas tree?

SAMS: Well, the kids have. It`s a tradition. We go up there every year to cut our tree. And this year, we kind of all had to work and we had to make our own individual trips. It was Freddie`s first time ever going out to cut a Christmas tree.

BROOKS: Now, how were they dressed? You know, at first, we first heard that they had on T-shirts, but they got off the helicopter, it looks like they had on parkas and were dressed for the conditions.

SAMS: That was provided by the search and rescue.

BROOKS: Oh, really?

SAMS: They provided them with hats and scarves and jackets when they found them.

BROOKS: Oh. So how were they dressed originally when they went out to look for the tree?

SAMS: T-shirts, just canvas sneakers, the little lightweight van (ph) sneakers, and lightweight sweatshirts.

BROOKS: Well, that`s amazing that they survived that long. Now, when were they reported missing?

SAMS: They were reported missing on -- they went out on Tuesday night -- I mean, I`m sorry, Sunday night. They left here about 2:00 to get their trees. We didn`t even realize they were missing until Sunday -- I mean, Monday about 6:30.

BROOKS: Now, how did you find out that they were missing? Did you try to call Freddie and...

SAMS: They weren`t at school. We found out -- we went to pick them up at school, and we found out one of them hadn`t been to school that day. And we thought they were just staying with their dad.

BROOKS: Oh.

SAMS: Lisa went to go get Lexi at school, and she wasn`t at school, either. And then Brian (ph), Lisa`s fiance, works with Freddie, and Freddie didn`t show up for work that day. And so they went over to Freddie`s house and his nephew was there, and his nephew had said they never came home from getting a tree.

BROOKS: What an amazing story. Now, did they tell you how they survived this whole time without...

SAMS: They did. Initially, when they went to go get a tree, they did the normal, Oh, here`s a tree, No, look over there, there`s a better one, No, look over there, there`s a better one. And they got -- drifted far off from the track. And it started to get dark and it started to snow, and they got lost. They started walking, and they were all turned around.

They huddled under a tree and cut down branches to protect themselves for the first night. The second night, they went out looking for a place where they could make shelter or have shelter until somebody found them. They found that drainage culvert, and there was like a rock or something there, too, that had heat in it, so they would cuddle up against the rock for the heat. And they cut down more branches to protect themselves from the snow.

BROOKS: That`s amazing. Now, had Freddie had any kind of survival training at all to get him through this?

SAMS: All this came from Christopher.

BROOKS: Now, Christopher -- now, what`s Christopher`s background? And how old is Christopher?

SAMS: Christopher is 18. And as a family, we go camping about 12 times a year. And last summer, him and our other daughter, our 21-year-old daughter, went camping by themselves for two weeks. And they`re pretty good at survival. And our 12-year-old, Josh, had just graduated from 6th grade, and for the 6th grade promotion trip they went camping for a week and they learned how to build shelters when they were out camping in the wilderness.

BROOKS: That is amazing. Now, it`s so great that Christopher knew exactly what to do. I mean, for 18 years old, and had that much experience and that much wherewithal to do what he did to help the family is amazing to me. Now, how are their conditions now?

SAMS: They`re doing pretty good. Joshua and Alexis have a little bit of frostbite on their toes, and they want to keep them in the hospital for the night just to observe them. And it looks like Freddie and Christopher should be able to come home tonight. They`re doing pretty well.

BROOKS: Well, that is unbelievable. And everybody here at the NANCY GRACE show is so happy to hear that they`re back, they`re safe, with just some minor frostbite. And Ms. Sams, I tell you what, we hear so many stories and we covered so many stories last year of people out in the snow get disoriented and it didn`t turn out like this. But I`m glad Christopher -- I think -- it sounds like he was one of the ones who basically was inspirational in saving his whole family.

SAMS: He sure was.

BROOKS: Well, Ms. Sams, thank you so much for being with us, happy holidays from the NANCY GRACE show.

SAMS: Oh, thank you very much.

BROOKS: Thank you, Ms. Sams.

Just an incredible story. Right now, I want to go out to Kelly Sanchez, reporter from KPAY 1290 in Chico (ph), California. Kelly, thanks for being with us. How many agencies were involved in this search?

KELLY SANCHEZ, KPAY 1290: There were so many, but the main ones being the Butte County search and rescue team that was out there, and having teams coming from all over the area, and obviously, the CHP copter not being from this area. But it was just really teamwork. There were so many teams out there. Brett Eagan (ph), with the Butte County search and rescue, was saying there were teams of five or six, depending on what they were doing, two-person snowmobile teams. It was just so many teams out there.

BROOKS: Well, you know, I looked on line today at their search and rescue site, and having been a former assistant volunteer fire chief myself, and I was interested to see what kind of training they had. It`s an all-volunteer crew in this organization.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And there were -- we have to say, there were so many people that wanted to go up there and help in the search, but they were turning away people that were trying to help because they didn`t want other people getting stuck, and it was very rugged terrain, so unless you were, you know what I mean, trained in that area, it was really a dangerous site.

BROOKS: No, absolutely. And if you don`t know the area and you haven`t worked up there -- but I was looking at their list of rescues that you`ve done over the past year and just in the year 2007, and it`s amazing the work that these volunteer rescuers do. And my hat`s off to them and also to the CHP. And thank God the weather had cleared up.

Let`s go out to the lines. Jeanette from California, thanks for being with us. You have a question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. I wanted to know where the family was cutting the Christmas tree, is that federal forest?

BROOKS: That`s a good question. Kelly Sanchez, reporter from KPAY, is that a federal forest?

SANCHEZ: It`s a national forest. And you can get a tree permit. It costs about $10. You get a tree permit, and you are allowed to cut trees. According to the guidelines, you pay $10 for every tree permit for every tree that you want to cut down. So it`s not unusual for families to go up there and do that. Like Barbara was saying, it`s a tradition for most families up here to do that.

BROOKS: That`s great. You know, and that was one of my questions, you know, being former law enforcement, I`m going, Now, are you allowed to go into a federal forest? I think that`s maybe what Jeanette was getting at.

Joining us by phone from Paradise, California, is Madde Watts from the Butte County search and rescue. Madde, what a great job your people did today.

MADDE WATTS, BUTTE COUNTY SEARCH AND RESCUE: Thank you. They did a great job.

BROOKS: Now, there were a number of agencies, with you as the lead agency, I guess, in the search and rescue. Tell us how it all went, how you were notified and just give us a timeline of how everything went.

WATTS: We were actually called out for the search Monday about evening, about 8:00 o`clock, and our team responded. That`s when we located the truck, and we initiated the search at that point. And it was going into that next period that we realized that we needed additional resources.

BROOKS: And where did those additional resources come from?

WATTS: We went through OES out of California. They`re our resource agency that -- Office of Emergency Services -- and we got resources from as far as the California/Oregon border, down into the bay area, as well.

BROOKS: I saw Contra Costa County and some other counties from the bay area came up to assist.

WATTS: That`s it. We had San Mateo. We had Marin County, all the way over to the Tahoe area, Placer (ph) County. It was just incredible the amount of people that came up to help.

BROOKS: Well, we heard from Mrs. Sams, the maternal grandmother, that apparently, they had gotten out of the truck. They, you know, were looking for a tree. Hey, this one looks good. No, this one looks better. They got disoriented and then the snow started to come. Now, was there snow forecast for this area?

WATTS: On Sunday, there wasn`t any snow up there. It was cloudy. I think the storm was actually going to be coming in a little later, and I think they just -- you know, they just got caught in the weather.

BROOKS: Now, I know the area is fairly (INAUDIBLE) Just describe the area that they were in. Was it rugged? How -- what -- just tell me about the area they were in.

WATTS: The area`s very rugged. It`s steep. We have canyons, drainages. We have a lot of brush, which is called manseneda (ph), that`s very difficult to get through. Especially if you have snow on top of it, you know, you think you`re walking on solid ground and you go through the manseneda. It`s just a very difficult area to search.

BROOKS: Well, you know, for someone not being -- this family not being really experienced -- it sounds like the one 18-year-old boy, Christopher, was experienced in survival. It sounded like he might have saved his whole family.

WATTS: Yes, he did. You know, finding a place where they could get out of the weather and stay dry was definitely a benefit for them. And I understand they made a "Help" in the snow, and you know, that just -- that was really a benefit.

BROOKS: Absolutely.

WATTS: That really helped them.

BROOKS: I want to go out to Dr. Marty Makary. He`s a physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins. Quickly, Doctor, minor frostbite, pretty good for that many days in this kind of conditions?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Absolutely, Mike. I think everybody that does rescue work or medical work in this area has a great deal of respect for how quickly you can become, as you said, disoriented. Your mind loses that ability to tell when you turn 180 degrees, which end is north and south. And that is a really dangerous combination, particularly in children, where they have more body surface area per unit weight than adults.

BROOKS: Especially in whiteout conditions. But I tell you what, we`re so happy everyone was found safely with just some minor frostbite.

When we come back, the manhunt for two New Jersey prison escapees. And in a stunning twist, one of their moms says to keep on running.

But first, check out the latest message from Nancy about the twins. And coming soon, video of the twins will make its debut on the baby blog. That`s at CNN.com/nancygrace. And remember to mark your calendars. Nancy`s back on Headline News January 7, 8:00 PM sharp Eastern. Be sure to join us right here on Headline News.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Espinosa was looking at 17 years for manslaughter. Otis Blunt was facing robbery and weapons charges. Together they hatched a plan to chip their way out of doing hard time. Guards noticed both inmates missing from their high-security cells at the Union County jail at 5:15 PM Saturday. They found this metal wire and say they believe Blunt used it as a tool to chip away a hole into Espinosa`s adjoining cell. Then they used it to chisel an 18-inch-wide hole from Espinosa`s cell to the outside. The holes were concealed with pin-up posters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, we still have two inmates on the run tonight, escaping from the Union County jail, Otis Blunt and Jose Espinosa, and we don`t know where they are. We need your help in getting these two back behind bars.

For the latest, let`s go right out to Katherine Paster, Union County reporter at Worrall newspapers. Katherine, what`s the latest in the search for these two?

KATHERINE PASTER, UNION COUNTY REPORTER FOR WORRALL NEWSPAPERS: Well, as you said, Mike, the two inmates who escaped from the county jail on Saturday evening are still on the run. And after a thorough investigation of the county jail that`s been going on for the past 48 hours, it`s been discovered that yet another inmate was planning on attempting to escape from the Union County prison. He was supposed to have been found with numerous bed sheets that he was planning to braid and actually use to lower himself out of the jail.

BROOKS: And when was this?

PASTER: This actually happened -- this was discovered earlier today. Union County prosecutor Ted Romenko (ph) issued a statement saying that this had been found, along with numerous other discrepancies in the security policies of the jail.

BROOKS: Well, sounds to me like this place needs a total overhaul and maybe some new leadership? You think?

You know, and I tell you what -- I want to go right out to Ralph Froehlich. He`s the Union County sheriff, and he is heading up the search for the missing inmates. You`re joining us by phone from Union County. Sheriff Froehlich, thank you very much.

RALPH FROEHLICH, UNION COUNTY, NJ, SHERIFF: It`s a pleasure to be with you.

BROOKS: All right. So what are the efforts now looking for these two dangerous felons?

FROEHLICH: Right now, there`s a combined effort of the local police, the county police, and of course, the federal marshal. Now, when you put those three together, you`ve got a pretty good fugitive teams to do your searching.

BROOKS: Absolutely. I was part of a fugitive task force myself, and I can tell you they can run, but they can`t hide. Now, Espinosa -- there was report in the Associated Press that he`s actually from Mexico, here in the United States illegally.

FROEHLICH: I don`t know about the illegal part, but I know he lived on East Jersey Street in the city of Elizabeth and still has family here, a brother -- two brothers and a mother.

BROOKS: Well, we`ll be right back with the latest on this because we want to make sure that these two get behind bars before they can do anyone any more harm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people are considered dangerous. One was already convicted. He`s pled guilty to aggravated manslaughter. He`s a dangerous person. The other person has been charged with robbery, possession of a weapon. We ask the public not to get involved directly with these people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: That`s the Union County prosecutor Theodore (ph) Romenko telling you don`t get involved. If you see these people, call 911. They should be considered armed and extremely dangerous. Otis Blunt, also known as Otis A. Blunt, Kenneth Graham (ph), also known as Kenneth Jackson (ph), also known as Ali Shabazz (ph) -- Ali al Shabazz (ph), and Lee Curry (ph). And it`s Blunt`s mom who says, Keep on running, son. What kind of mother tells her son to keep on running? And then we`ve got Espinosa, a gang banger with the Bloods street gang.

I want to go right back out to Ralph Froehlich. He`s the Union County sheriff that`s heading up the search for these two missing inmates. Now, you said there`s a joint task force for these two, want to get them back in bars before Christmas.

FROEHLICH: We`d like that to be their Christmas present. In fact, Espinosa`s birthday is Christmas day and Blunt`s birthday is tomorrow, and I would like to be the Grinch for both of them.

BROOKS: And I would like to help -- see the NANCY GRACE show be one of your elves for the Grinch to get these two -- oh, I don`t want to use the term -- these two guys back behind bars.

I want to go right out to Darrell Cohen (ph) and -- Darrell Cohen, defense attorney, and Pam Hayes. Pam Hayes, you used to be a public defender in Union County. What kind of conditions are in this jail?

PAM HAYES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, when I was there, they were using the old jail, but they`ve since then built this high-tech structure. But unfortunately, it doesn`t seem to be able to keep those people in lockdown.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A daring break out, "Shawshank Redemption" style, from a Union County jail. Otis Blunt and Jose Espinosa break free by digging their way through their cells using wire and a metal knob. Dummies under their bed sheets and posters of women in bikinis all over the walls to cover their tracks. The men even have time to leave a note thanking prison guards and wishing them happy holidays.

Tonight, an all out man hunt is underway as U.S. Marshals join the search.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. If the U.S. Marshals are looking for you, they always get their man, guarantee you that. And with this "Shawshank Redemption" style escape, also with a little bit of "Escape From Alcatraz" thrown in. If you recall "Escape From Alcatraz," they used the dummies in the beds. So it`s a little combination of both.

Joining me right now is Ted Conover, former prison guard and author of "Newjack, Guarding Sing Sing." Ted, thanks for being with us.

TED CONOVER, AUTHOR, "NEWJACK": Pleasure, Mike, thank you.

BROOKS: Ted, you were a correctional officer at Sing Sing, one of the highest security prisons in New York. This place is supposed to be a high security facility. And these guys -- it looked like it was Keystone correctional officers in this case.

CONOVER: I have got to say, there`s a lot of Monday morning quarter backing in corrections, and I don`t want to speak before all the facts are known. But it does look, from what we know, like there was failure at multiple levels, from the supervision to the building itself.

BROOKS: Ted, when you`re in a high security area -- first of all, when they do a head count, aren`t they supposed to make sure that there`s actually someone there?

CONOVER: Exactly, and at least three times a day, every facility does a count. But beyond that, these guys were in an extra secure part of the jail. That is, prisoners who break the rules once they`re in jail get put in administrative segregation. So it`s extra supervision. They were supposed to have their cells frisked randomly during the week and there`s supposed to be visual contact. The officer is supposed see if that body in the bed is moving, whether it`s breathing. And when that`s not done, something has gone wrong.

BROOKS: I`m sorry, but when you have someone that uses a piece of wire and a knob to scrape the mortar between the blocks out, what are they doing, are they eating the mortar?

CONOVER: That`s the other thing; as you know, they were putting the mortar in these foot lockers that all of them have in their cells, which should have been routinely checked during these frisks. The other interesting thing here is that Blunt`s previous escape attempt in September was foiled by a tip from another inmate. As you know, that`s often the way bad stuff gets discovered in a prison. A snitch will give somebody up to a guard in exchange for certain favors.

And it`s kind of surprising that in this unit of eight people nobody turned these guys in, because you can bet everybody knew what was going on. You can`t scrape out giant cinder blocks and bang the mortar into dust without attracting a little bit of attention.

BROOKS: No, and I tell you, we`re hearing that two of the correctional officers from this facility -- we heard from one of their union reps last night -- that they went to the hospital for apparently anxiety but were released. They ought to be going for anxiety, because I`ll tell you, when the investigations start, some heads are going to roll.

I want to go out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing For Sport." Pat, do you think these two guys will actually go back and try to contact family or friends?

PAT BROWN, AUTHOR, "KILLING FOR SPORT": Well, it`s possible, Mike, but they have to be on the run. We`re going to have to look at their history to decide, what have they done in the past to get away with all of their crimes. Who has supported them? What have their movements been? Have they tended to go on a run in certain places, committing crimes in different locations?

Have they ever tried, like Espinosa to go back home to Mexico? I mean, really the past is the key to the future as to what kind of behaviors they`re going to continue using.

BROOKS: I`m glad to see -- we heard from Sheriff Froehlich tonight that the U.S. Marshall Service -- it`s a joint fugitive task force that are going after these two. And I guarantee you, it`s not a matter of if, but a matter of when these two will be locked back up again.

Right now I want to bring in the lawyers again, Darryl Cohen, defense attorney out of Atlanta, and Pam Hayes, defense attorney out of New York. Darryl, what kind of charges, additional charges, will these two guys be facing when they`re caught again?

COHEN: Mike, first of all if mom is believed, Miss Rocket Scientist, then when her little son sees that little red laser that`s on his forehead, he`s not going to have to worry about additional charges. But having said that, they have to have charges of escape and they`re going to be -- every jurisdiction is a little bit different. Probably five additional years and maybe this time they won`t get any pin-ups, because, after all, you hid in plain sight.

BROOKS: They shouldn`t have had any pin-ups if they`re in a high security area. They shouldn`t have been looking at bikini clad women to begin with. I`m sure they`ve got their bikini clad women they`re looking at right now while they`re on the run. Pam, I want to ask you, there`s no defense for escape, is there?

HAYES: There is a defense for escape. I don`t know if it`s going to work in this particular instance.

BROOKS: Please, help me understand what the defense for escape is, somebody threw me off the building?

HAYES: No, you can`t say that, but you can argue duress.

BROOKS: Duress?

HAYES: We don`t know what the facts are surrounding this case. It looks to us, easily, that they both just wanted to get out, and I think that might be the case. But, if you`re looking for a defense, then the Jersey code allows you to argue a defense of duress, the other guy made me do it.

BROOKS: It`s always the other guy made me do it.

HAYES: Absolutely, that`s what duress is, so there you go. I don`t think it will work.

COHEN: The inmates were forcing them to escape. They have knives to their backs and you have to jump.

BROOKS: The only duress these two probably had was they skipped a couple of meals in order to get through the holes that they dug.

HAYES: I think it`s a little bit more than that, Mike. I think there`s a little more than meets the eye. Did you see how thin those blocks were? They might think of getting something a little more secure if they want to keep their people on lock down.

BROOKS: There`s a lot of changes that need to be made and a lot of over haul at this particular facility. I hope it starts soon. We heard yesterday that there weren`t even any cameras in this pod. Com on, Ted Conover, former prison officer, come on -- in a high security facility, no cameras?

CONOVER: It`s another one of the many surprises. And as the attorney was saying, you look at those cinder block walls -- I mean, where I worked we had metal walls. And the whole idea that an extra security unit could be so easy to get out of is a bit surprising. The officers who were there, one reason for the stress they`re suffering may be that it`s all about control when you`re a correction officer, and an escape like this is the ultimate loss of control. You`re no longer protecting the public. You have failed at a very basic level.

BROOKS: And when you look at something like this, the first thing you think about, could there have been some help from the inside?

CONOVER: Oh, yes.

BROOKS: But we hope -- they are sworn just like regular police officers. They`re sworn by oath to protect and serve and they`re to protect and serve and keep these dangerous criminals in the jail, so they don`t get out and do any harm to anyone else.

To tonight`s case alert; former police sergeant and suspect Drew Peterson reportedly hires a private investigator in the search for his fourth wife; 23-year-old Stacy Peterson disappears October 28 in the Chicago suburbs. As the search goes on for the young mom, Drew Peterson says he will try to make the Christmas holidays as normal as possible for their two young kids. According to reports, investigators shifting their search for Stacy away from a canal.

And tonight, check out the latest message from Nancy about the twins. And, coming soon, video of the twins will make its debut on the Baby Blog. That`s all on CNN.com/NancyGrace. Remember to mark you calendars, Nancy`s back on Headline News January 7th, 8:00 p.m. sharp Eastern. Be sure to join us right here on Headline News.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our first priority is to catch these guys. We`re convinced that we will catch them. The county police are looking for them. Local police throughout the state are looking for em. The state police also. And also the Federal Marshals are involved in this chase. We will find him, there`s no question about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Two dangerous felons still on the run as they escape from a Union County jail, Union County in Elizabeth, New Jersey. I want to go right out to Caryn Starks, psychologist. Karen, these two dangerous felons on the run, what has to be going through their minds right now?

CARYN STARKS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Mike, you`re talking about people who have extreme personalities; they`re criminals. And what they`re doing right now is easy for them. They thrive on extreme circumstances. They love to have adrenaline rushing inside of them. So right now they`re enjoying themselves.

BROOKS: Now Otis Blunt`s mom, hey son, keep on running; doesn`t look like the apple falls too far from the tree on this particular one, Caryn.

STARKS: That`s the point, is that you take that kind of mother and what kind of morality is she teaching her child from infancy? She`s imbuing this kind of talk, this kind of thinking, this kind of do what you need to do to escape and take care of yourself and this is the way that you prove that you were wrong. This is the kind of mother that would raise someone who`s a sociopath.

BROOKS: Now, in facilities such as this, do they not have psychologists that talk to these people now and then and try to find out exactly what`s going on with them? And would they have given any indication that they might have been planning an escape?

STARKS: I can`t imagine that they would given any kind of indication because they were wanting to escape. There are psychologists that they do send to see these men, but we`re talking about anti-social personalities. It`s very difficult to work with somebody like that. I can`t say -- it doesn`t happen, but it`s very hard, Mike.

BROOKS: I want to go to the phones. Richard from New Jersey, thanks for joining us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, good evening.

BROOKS: Do you have a question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, when was the last time -- gap from when they were last physically seen and did any of the outside perimeter cameras see their escape?

BROOKS: Katherine Paster from "Union County Reporter" Newspapers, went was the last time they were seen? And I think we heard last night that there weren`t any cameras outside the fence?

KATHERINE PASTER, "UNION COUNTY" REPORTER: That`s right, Mike, no cameras caught their escape. I`m not exactly sure the last time they were seen because we`re still waiting to hear what the report said from the corrections officers who were on duty that night. So honestly, we`re not too sure at this point the last time they were seen.

BROOKS: But it was somewhere -- they reported somewhere around dinner time, so who knows how long they had been gone from their cell, because the officers in this particular facility kind of asleep at the switch, if you will.

I want to go out to Dr. Marty Makary. He`s a physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins. Dr. Makary, they jump off a 25-foot building -- they go over a 25-foot fence, three-story building; is there a possibility that they could have injured themselves?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN: There`s a high chance here that they have a fracture of the heal called a parachuter`s fracture. Now, at 40 feet, that`s where 50 percent of the people that jump are going to die. But at 30 feet, there`s a good chance they survived and limped away. Now remember, everything they tell their doctors, if they go see a health care professional, is confidential.

BROOKS: And they probably don`t have health insurance either. And I almost would guarantee you, dollars to doughnuts, that the U.S. Marshals Service, the people from this fugitive task force have been to local hospitals looking for people with injuries just like what you just explained to us.

I want to go back out to the phones. Jenina from Washington, do you have a question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, actually I worked at this prison in the `90s.

BROOKS: Really?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I`m very familiar with this floor and everything that goes on in this jail. My question, these correctional officers that work at this facility are some of the highest paid, up to 100,000 a year, some make. I want to know if the state of New Jersey is finally going to go in -- finally going to go in and implement some kind of program where these officers are going to do their jobs, and not sleep, and work three shifts at time and a half.

That`s my question. When is the state of New Jersey going to go in and fix this problem. This jail is racked -- racked with scandal?

BROOKS: Joining us by phone in Union County is Ralph Froehlich. He`s the Union County sheriff. He`s in charge of the search. I know you don`t run the jail, sheriff, but who oversees this and who could get some things changed policy wise on dealing with this particular facility?

RALPH FROEHLICH, UNION COUNTY SHERIFF: Well, the jail administrator runs the jail. However, the policies and procedures are probably already in effect. It`s human errors. You have to follow your policies. But you mentioned before for the public not to get involved physically with any of these people; and I agree with you 100 percent. Their issue right now is survival. And I don`t think they would have any qualms at all about another injury, hurting some citizen, breaking into a car or whatever for their own survival.

So I would say, just call us, let us do the work for you.

BROOKS: I totally agree with you, sheriff. That`s what they pay you the little bucks for and the U.S. Marshall Service and that fugitive task force. That`s why you`re there. We`ll go back out to the phones, Lee from Massachusetts, do you have a question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, my question is this, if the mother is encouraging her son to keep running, can she be charged with something, maybe obstruction of justice, or something along those lines? And do you think she should be?

BROOKS: That`s a great question for Darryl Cohen, defense attorney and Pam Hayes, joining us here in New York. What do you think?

COHEN: No, Mike, I think unless she makes some overt act to help him escape, just saying it -- these are words from a lunatic and someone who is trying to get her son killed, and unfortunately is someone who`s going to get some member or members of the public hurt or killed because they are desperate. But no, I don`t see them charging her with anything at this point.

BROOKS: Pam, do you agree with Darryl?

HAYES: Absolutely, they`re not going to charge her. She hasn`t committed a crime.

BROOKS: Except stupidity.

HAYES: That`s not a crime.

BROOKS: Unfortunately.

HAYES: The real deal here is that the train is right by the jail. They will be into Maryland and to Delaware and into Pennsylvania. They will be in New York and Staten Island and any number of, you know -- a half hour. My concern is this seems like a very sophisticated break and they need to get some people on it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK):

BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Two fugitives on the run, but not for long. I want to go right out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing For Sport." Quickly, do you think they had help from the outside?

BROWN: I don`t think necessarily so, because a lot of these prisoners, when they`re in there, they spend 24 hours a day thinking of what they can do to get away with stuff, how they can get out. They`re master manipulators. They watch those guards, and they wait for those guards to get their guard down. Eventually somebody will. They`re always looking for a tool that they can find to get their way out. No, I think they`re working on their own.

BROOKS: Let`s gout out to the lines quickly. Donna from Ohio, do you have a question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I`m a correction officer in Ohio. I was wondering, how long do these officers work there and are there any pensions involved that can be taken from them?

BROOKS: That`s a good question. There is an investigation that is under way. They`re starting right now. We heard form the prosecutor yesterday, Donna. There`s an investigation. I`m sure all of this will come out and we`ll find out exactly who is responsible for this, if anyone is.

Tonight lets stop to remember Army Staff Sergeant Donald Munn II, only 25, from Clear Shores, Michigan. On his second tour of duty, he left his studies at Western Michigan University to enlist. he loved sports. His favorite teams, the Detroit Tigers and Notre Dame. He leaves behind parents Ray and Donald, his grandmother Dorothy, sister Courtney, a widow Jennifer and his one-year-old daughter, Jordan. Donald Munn II, an American hero.

Thank you to all our guests and thank you to you at home for being with us. Remember to visit Nancy`s Baby Blog at CNN.com/NancyGrace. See you tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, stay safe.

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