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American Morning
San Francisco Tragedy At The Zoo; A Suicide Bombing This Morning Killing At Least 14 People; More Details About How A 12-Year- Old Girl From Southern California May Have Survived A Plane Crash In Panama
Aired December 27, 2007 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, ski slope scandal. We're live with the 8-year-old being sued over a skiing accident on this AMERICAN MORNING.
And welcome. It is Thursday, December 27th. We had a lot going on today. We're following here on AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Kiran Chetry. John Roberts has a well-deserved day off.
Meanwhile, we start with the situation in San Francisco tragedy at the zoo. And now, it's a crime scene. The big cat exhibit, at least. After a deadly tiger mauling on Christmas Day. This morning, there are some new details and they are learning more, as they continue to investigate victims and also the role that they may have played in the attack. The teenager who was killed has been identified as 17-year-old Carlos Sousa, Jr. Police say that he died from a severe slash to the throat. He knew the tiger's two other victims. They were brothers who were seriously hurt.
This morning, "San Francisco Chronicle" is reporting that one of the friends may have taunted the tiger, dangling a leg over the fence before the tiger was able to get out. Police say that that dangling could have actually provided a way to help the tiger climb out. It's believed that the deadly attack happened just outside of the tiger's grotto area there and the others left a trail of blood that the tiger then followed. At least 300 yards, all the way to the zoo's cafe. Police found the tiger attacking one of the victims and opened fire, killing the tiger.
CNN's Dan Simon is live from the San Francisco Zoo. Are you getting any more information this morning on the investigation today, Dan?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, of course, it's still very early today. We're expecting a press conference about 11:30 local time, but the "San Francisco Chronicle" really breaking a new story today. CNN cannot independently confirm this. But the chronicle is saying that police found, what appears to be footprint on a waist-high fence. This is a fence that separates the general public from the enclosure. From the outer perimeter of the enclosure and this is even more significant. The "Chronicle" is reporting that there was a shoe and some blood found between the fence and the moat.
Now, again, CNN can't confirm this. But if this is true, then it suggests that these three people may have really played a vital role in the tiger coming over there or attracting the attention of the tiger. Perhaps, the tiger may have latched on to a foot or a body part and that may have helped the tiger escape the enclosure. Now, the police aren't saying anything about this publicly, at least not yet. Again, we're expecting this news conference. However, what they have said is that they are treating this as a criminal investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF HEATHER FONG, SAN FRANCISCO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Because we're not certain whether this incident occurred as a result of human action or whether this was an incident where the animal was able to get out of the grotto. We have deemed the site as of last night a crime scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: We're also getting some more details about where the three people were when this attack first took place. Apparently, all three were just outside of the enclosure, so the two surviving victims witnessed this whole attack where their friend was killed on the spot. Then the other two, apparently, ran literally for their lives.
Went some 300 yards to this outdoor cafe where they, of course, they were also attacked by the tiger, surviving their wounds before the police showed up and then killed the tiger. Of course, they are in the hospital today and what they have, you know, to say to investigators is going to be critical to this case -- Kiran?
CHETRY: Even more critical because at least, they were reporting today out of the "Chronicle" is that there are no surveillance cameras aimed at the tiger exhibit so they're not going to be able to find out until they talk to them and even then, perhaps it's up in the air, as to how the tiger really escaped. So, a lot of questions about whether they will ever going to know what exactly really happened to that exhibit.
SIMON: That's exactly right. And we're also told that as a result of what happened, the zoo is planning now to install surveillance cameras. And also, there weren't that many witnesses when this all took place. This, of course, happened on Christmas Day, late in the afternoon, about 5:00. Everybody who was here had pretty much left. There were only about 20 people inside the zoo at the time of the attack and really we don't know how many people were in that general vicinity when the attack took place.
CHETRY: As you said, we will be listening and hopefully finding out more details at a news conference scheduled at 11:30 Pacific Time. So, that is 2:30 here on the east coast. Dan Simon, thank you.
It also brings us to this morning's "Quick Vote" question. A lot of people talking about exactly how this was handed and whether or not the zoo could have or should have done anything differently. One of the big questions this morning is should the tiger at the zoo have been shot and killed or just tranquilized. We asked you to vote and weigh in on that. Right now, 48 percent say that the tiger should have been shot and killed. 52 percent say tranquilized. Just a little bit of info. There were zoo personnel that do have the ability to use tranquilizer guns. However, they were not able to get there in time. As we said, a lack of information and some confusion in those early moments. It was the police who happened to arrive on the scene first and obviously all they had were guns. We're going to continue to tally your votes throughout the morning.
Meanwhile, the victim's parents spoke to us just a few moments ago. Heart-wrenching to hear their sadness this morning. Carlos Sousa, Sr. saying that he was in shock when he got the call and like the rest of us, he still has no answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLOS SOUSA SR, VICTIM'S FATHER: I don't have any information yet how this happened. I just know that my son is dead and I've seen him at the morgue. That's very painful. He's the only son I have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: His mother also said he hugged her and told her he loved her everyday and that his loss is going to be felt so keenly. They're no longer going to be celebrating Christmas. They say that is the day that their son was taken away and they don't want to celebrate it obviously.
We're also following breaking news out of Pakistan. A suicide bombing this morning killing at least 14 people. This was at a rally that was organized by supporters of former Pakistani prime minister and now opposition leader Benazir Bhutto. According to Pakistani police, they say this bomber detonated as he tried to enter the rally. It's where thousands of people were gathered to hear Bhutto speak. A spokesman for Bhutto told CNN that she was safe and was taken away from the scene. That she was about 15 meters away from the explosion.
Yet, there is conflicting information on that front. We are hearing from Pakistan's GEO-TV that Benazir Bhutto was indeed wounded and that she is now being treated at a hospital. So, again, we need to make sure that we find out more information about that because we're hearing two different things this morning. A lot of confusion in the early minutes and hours after this incident took place. So we're going to continue to keep you up-to-speed on that.
In fact, one of our own producers was in Rawalpindi and joins us there now. Mohsin Naqvi joins us on the phone this morning. So, can you clarify anything for us this morning, Mohsin, about why GEO Television is saying that Bhutto was injured and then her officials spoke people saying that she was not near the scene?
MOHSIN NAQVI, CNN PRODUCER: We are still checking on that. There are some reports coming out that she was injured but we can't confirm that right now. The report which we are trying to confirm from the hospital, which they are quoting. But right now, we can't confirm anything about that. Earlier, a few moments back, when we talked to her spokeswoman, (INAUDIBLE), she confirmed that she is fine and she is safe. That's what they confirm, but about her injuries, nobody had mention. So, we are still checking on that.
CHETRY: Our producers are telling me right now that GEO-TV and maybe you could explain to our viewers who are not familiar with that news organization in Pakistan are quoting her husband as saying that Benazir Bhutto is, indeed, injured.
NAQVI: (INAUDIBLE) her husband, if he is confirming that, then definitely we are checking on that and in which hospital she is in and how badly she is injured. We are checking on that. We are checking with the hospital sources if they are operating her right now. There are some reports coming that she is undergoing surgery also.
CHETRY: Are you hearing that yourself as well or are you talking about what GEO-TV is reporting?
NAQVI: There are some people also standing with the party. People are also talking about it but we can't -- there is no party officer who can confirm that to us, so we are still checking on that. We can't independently confirm that right now.
CHETRY: I understand. Boy, in the early minutes, after this type of situation takes place. Suicide bomb attack outside of this. There are still a lot of conflicting reports and confusion, but again, we're hearing from GEO-TV in Pakistan that Benazir Bhutto's husband is telling them that she was critically wounded. We're going to continue to follow the latest developments. And this is video right now, that's been coming in of the chaos and confusion and the moments after this explosion in Rawalpindi at the scene of this rally.
A rally that was planned. It was to be her first campaign rally since she returned from exile just two months ago. There were hundreds of riot police that were on hand to make sure something like this did not happen. In fact, they were manning security checkpoints there. Rawalpindi, an area in recent weeks, which has been targeted repeatedly by suicide bombers. It's a city near the capital where Musharraf stays and of course, the Pakistani army also has its headquarters there. So, this was a planned rally. It was something that the security officials had tried to plan for and prevent and, sure enough, we are hearing today of the suicide explosion.
Someone detonating explosives in a crowd of thousands of Benazir Bhutto supporters. And again, the very shocking news that CNN has yet to confirm, that we are hearing from Pakistani news sources, specifically GEO-TV, that Bhutto was actually critically injured in that bomb explosion, according to her husband. So, we are going to get more information and we're going to continue to follow the latest. And again, bring you up-to-date as soon as we find out more out of Pakistan this morning.
A lot of other stories making headlines overnight. Alina Cho has been following the very latest developments for us this morning.
Hi, Alina.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, there, Kiran, good morning to you. Good morning, everybody. New this morning. Police have in custody, two people who they believe are responsible for killing six members of the same family. It happened east of Seattle in Carnation, Washington on Christmas Eve. 29-year-old Michele Anderson and her boyfriend, Thomas McEnroe are booked on suspicion of murder.
Neighbors say the victims are three generations of the same family. Anderson's parents, her brother, his wife and their two young children. Wayne Anderson was an engineer for Boeing. A man, who says he is related to the Anderson, says it may have all started with a fight over money.
A shocking new report is out on the cause of that huge steam pipe explosion in New York City. It happened back in the summertime. It blames faulty repairs by utility company Con Edison. That report, which by the way, was paid for by Con Ed, says putty used to seal a valve came loose in chunks of it and then clogged another valve designed to release steam. Now, that created a big backup, eventually causing the pipe to explode. One woman was killed after suffering a heart attack after the blast. Two others were severely burned.
And we're getting more details this morning about how a 12-year- old girl from Southern California may have survived a plane crash in Panama. Francesca Lewis's mother says she believes her daughter either fell out or was thrown from the plane as it was crashing. Francesca's best friend, her friend's father and the pilot were all killed. Francesca's mom said rescuers found her under a wing, apparently delirious, thinking she was waking up at home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VALERIE LEWIS, SURVIVOR'S MOTHER: So the fact that she, so far, doesn't seem to have any major damage is, seems incredible. She thought she had been sleeping and that she would wake up and see -- she thought she was in her home and that there was, why was there an airplane wing in her home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: Just imagine what that girl went through. Her mom says, Francesca, has fractured arm and had some cuts but that she's actually up and walking around. But just an incredible, I mean, obviously, we're all waiting to hear from this young girl. Bittersweet moment for her, of course. She survived but she lost her best friend and her best friend's father.
They were all very, very close. They were on a sightseeing trip. Her 13th birthday, by the way, is in February. So, an amazing early birthday gift for her, her life. But we are obviously going to be waiting to see how she recovers, watching that story very closely -- Kiran?
CHETRY: And as her mom said, she thought she was in her own living room. That's how confused she was.
CHO: She was delirious. And you know what, her mother said, that she actually thinks that maybe the luggage on top of her may have saved her life. Incredibly enough. CHETRY: Wow. That is an unbelievable story. Alina, thank you.
CHO: You bet.
CHETRY: We're going to take a quick break here but we want to show you some video right now with some breaking news that we've been following all morning out of Pakistan. Rawalpindi, it was the scene of a rally that was taking place for opposition leader Benazir Bhutto. Her first campaign rally, in fact, since returning from exile two months ago. Now, the scene of tragedy after a suicide bomber attacks and there are aides this morning saying that, Bhutto, herself was hurt in this explosion. 14 others is reported were killed.
We're going to have the latest on Bhutto's condition and find out more as to what is going on in Pakistan after the explosion. A suicide bomb attack in Rawalpindi this morning.
Also, a sudden urgency on the campaign trail. Look at the calendar. It just tells us why the candidates have just over a month to get the message out. We're going to get analysis from CNN's own John King, that's coming up ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. We're following breaking news out of Rawalpindi, Pakistan this morning. A suicide bombing taking place there. At least 14 people reported killed at a rally organized by supporters of Former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. And now Pakistan's GEO-TV is reporting that Bhutto's husband is saying, she was critically wounded by that attack as well.
AP is reporting that Bhutto is undergoing surgery at this moment. This came after reports earlier from aides, as well as others, who were saying that Bhutto had escaped and was not actually near the exact area of impact at this rally.
So again, we're hearing from Pakistani police that a bomber detonated as he was trying to enter the rally. It's where thousands of people are gathered to hear Bhutto speak. Rawalpindi also an area that's been repeatedly targeted right now, as one of the cities in Pakistan where al Qaeda, as well as other Taliban and other insurgent groups have threatened to attack as well.
Spokesman for Bhutto told CNN, she was safe and taken away from the scene. And again, we're hearing something very different now from multiple other sources, that indeed opposition leader Bhutto was injured in that attack, and has now, at least according to the Associated Press, undergoing surgery. Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon to offer a little bit more background for us on this. And set the scene, a huge security concern.
This was to be her first campaign rally, Barbara, since she came out of exile and this is something, where they had hundreds of riot police and security checkpoints knowing to expect violence.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, Kiran. And as we continue to look at some of those pictures coming in, this could not be a greater concern for the Bush administration here in Washington. Pakistan, of course, one of the U.S.' most vital allies in the war on terror against al Qaeda. Pakistan has been a growing concern in the weeks since President Pervez Musharraf declared that security emergency and then, lifted portions of it as Mrs. Bhutto returned to Pakistan.
What the U.S. military and the U.S. Intelligence Community has been worried about, for so long, has been a scenario just like this. If something were to happen to Mrs. Bhutto. If she were even perhaps, to be killed in some sort of attack, it's the instability in Pakistan that worries the U.S. to the greatest extent. That's not what they want to see there. They want to see a stable situation and a return to Democracy because al Qaeda, they say, is on the move in that country. It was just last week that Defense Secretary Robert Gates said, al Qaeda, in his words, is turning its face toward Pakistan.
There is a good deal of concern about these attacks. There was one last week, another suicide attack in a mosque that it's al Qaeda loyalists that are behind this spate of violence. That they are to simply expanding their influence in that country -- Kiran?
CHETRY: Not only al Qaeda and Taliban forces, but apparently violence coming at the hands of other political parties as well. In fact, the other Former Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, there were four supporters of him who were shot, at least according to Pakistani police, by members of a rival political party. This is taking place at another rally, but near Islamabad. It seems that we're hearing each day of explosion in Pakistan and violence as it pertains to these elections as well.
STARR: Well, that's right. And that is the instability type issue that has the U.S. so concerned. They want to see stability, so that the Musharraf government can control what is going on the streets and get Democracy back into the government of Pakistan and then turn its attention to al Qaeda, to the extremists and fundamentalist groups which they say are now pretty much operating, to some extent, at free will in some of Pakistan's major cities, including Rawalpindi.
This is the kind of thing that concerns them the most. These fundamentalist groups and some of these groups that are launching these types of attacks. They are no longer out in those border remote areas. They are now in the cities, they are operating and, to the extent that these attacks continue to happen, it is diverting the U.S. believes, the Musharraf's government's attention from what needs to be done to fight al Qaeda. And that type of vacuum, that instability, this type of violence, is basically, they worry the breeding ground for planning more attacks. Planning more attacks in Europe, more attacks in the west.
As long as Pakistan remains so unstable with so much violence that is a vacuum that the government there, they say, simply those security forces have to fill. And that's why they are so concerned. Not simply because of what is going on, on the streets of Pakistan as serious as it is, but what are the larger implications for these fundamentalist groups being able to operate abroad. CHETRY: Barbara Starr, boy, a lot of questions to be answer on that front this morning. Meanwhile, we are trying to sort out the newest details coming in after this attack. Thank you, Barbara.
STARR: Sure.
CHETRY: In fact, we're hearing new information again. This is coming from Benazir Bhutto's husband talking to Pakistani television saying that Benazir Bhutto, his wife, was actually shot in the neck. That she has a bullet wound to the neck and that she is now being treated for that. There were some confusion as to whether or not, she was the victim of this suicide bombing that took place at a rally for her.
Over whether her wounds came after the initial bombing and if what her husband is saying is confirmed by us, it would appear that this did happen separate from the explosion that has claimed the life of at least 14 supporters at this rally, when a suicide bomber detonated an explosive device there.
So, again, Pakistani television quoting Benazir Bhutto's husband as saying, she was shot in the neck, that she is critically injured, and being treated at a hospital. So, we'll, of course, continue to follow the quickly changing developments out of Pakistan throughout the show.
Meanwhile, elections here at home and a look at the primary calendar. It will show you, and there you see it, that the Iowa caucuses are just one week away. A few days after that, you have the New Hampshire primary and then, what is being called super duper Tuesday, that's just a month later, where more than 30 states will be casting their votes for their primary votes for president. So, it could all be over by February 5th.
Well, John King is hoping that. He need actually get some rest. The CNN chief national correspondent, John King, joins us now. Doing some double duty for us. You were doing Anderson's show last night.
Good to see you, this morning.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't hope it's over by February 5th. We take the voters take as long as they need.
CHETRY: That's right. Your bus is gassed up. The election bus is gassed up for months. You don't have to worry. You know, we talk about momentum. And of course, it seems that we ratchet up, all of the talk leading up to the week before Iowa. A new poll came out and I'd like to get your thoughts on how much stock you put in into this American research group poll, showing some major changes in where it stands for the candidates, especially on the Democrats side.
KING: Well, this poll, The American Research Group Poll, shows Hillary Clinton opening up, as you see there, a 14-point lead over or 15 point lead over her closest John Edwards and Barack Obama. I would take that as an indication that she has stabilized. I would not say that she has a 14-point lead. It doesn't mean she doesn't, but polls in caucus states are always unreliable. Because, it's not a traditional primary election. It's a caucus. This poll was taken December 20th to 23rd, just as everybody is getting ready for the Christmas Holiday and it's a small sample anyway.
So, if I would read anything into that, it would be after a few weeks of instability, where you saw Obama who actually pulled up ahead of her in some points. That Senator Clinton seems to have, at least stabilized. She is trying to make the election about what do voters want? What do voters want? They want to end -- Democratic voters want to end the Bush administration and Hillary Clinton wants to make it about changes in healthcare, changes in the economy and changes in policy.
Barack Obama and John Edwards are trying to make it who do you want? You need somebody new in Washington. Somebody who is not from the old political system. Somebody who will stand up to politics as usual. If it's about what, that benefits Senator Clinton and if it's about who, it benefits Edwards and Obama.
CHETRY: Let's talk a little bit more about the GOP side because we did see some changes there in the same poll, as you explain the caveats, as to why, we might not want to put too much stock into it. But it shows Mike Huckabee who was surging for awhile, it appears to be losing a little bit of support among men. What are the big issues in Iowa for the GOP caucus voters?
KING: Among men, illegal immigration is a huge issue, among all Republicans. And we know, it's the number one or number two issue in Iowa among all Republican and it tends to play more among men. Mitt Romney has been hitting Mike Huckabee quite hard on his record as Arkansas governor saying, he gave state benefits essentially taxpayer money to help the children of illegal immigrants get school.
He's also been hitting him on the crime issue. Traditionally, what happens in politics, when you have this surge candidates, a surprise candidate, they come out of nowhere, they get a lot of favorable attention, and then, they're rivals and we, in the news media say, wait a minute, what is the record? And when you look at somebody's record, they get scraped up a little bit.
Mike Huckabee still has momentum. He still has the passion. He is the passion candidate in Iowa, the homeschoolers, Christian conservatives, who believe him. Find him likable and authentic. If passion rules the day, Mike Huckabee benefits. If money and organization rule the day, then Mitt Romney does.
CHETRY: All right. Stick with us, John, because we're just getting some more breaking news out of Pakistan. As you know, we've been following this explosion that took place a suicide bomb blast. Well, we just got information from various media reports out of Pakistan, quoting a party aide of Benazir Bhutto of the opposition party saying, that leader Benazir Bhutto has, in fact, died. This is news just coming in to us moments ago. We hope to get more information as to the circumstances.
Let's take a look at what we do know at this point. We do know that her husband told GEO-TV in Pakistan that she was shot in the neck. A bullet wound to the neck, that she was rushed to the hospital and that she was undergoing surgery there. Before that, there was reluctance on the part of her aides to even admit that she was injured in this blast. The early reporting was saying that 14 people were killed. Supporters of Benazir Bhutto at this rally of thousands that was taking place in Rawalpindi.
And again, just moments ago, we're getting word from television stations and other media out of Pakistan quoting, a party aide saying that Benazir Bhutto has now died. This is coming from Interior Ministry Sources this morning. Joining us right now is former interior minister spokesperson Tariq Azim Khan, who joins us on the phone right now.
Thanks for being with us. As we are saying, the details are changing by the moment. We just heard the sad news, if it is indeed confirmed, Tariq, that Benazir Bhutto was killed?
TARIQ AZIM KHAN, FORMER INTERIOR MINISTER SPOKESPERSON: I can -- your wire is breaking up. But, if I hear you correctly, I must say I need to advise caution. I need to be very careful listening to these different reports coming out from the hospital. The situation is somewhat confused as one can expect. We know that nearly 15 people have actually lost their lives and over 40 have been injured. So, Health Commission is concern, I think one needs to be cautious. I do see and hear that -- various people are reporting that she has actually died. But I would advise caution at the moment.
CHETRY: Point well taken. There has been changing information as we have said throughout the morning on this situation. We are hearing from a party aide, as well as a military official, being quoted from the Associated Press that she died following the suicide bombing. There are also reports that we are hearing from her husband, who was speaking with GEO Television in Pakistan that she was shot.
KHAN: Well, as I said, at the moment, I cannot make out exactly what is your question. But I can only state that at the moment, we are hearing different reports. Some reports said that she is being operated upon. While others say, that she is out of danger and yet still some have reported sadly that she has expired.
This would be very sad indeed. In fact, this will be the second prime minister. One former prime minister has actually died in that very spot (INAUDIBLE) who was killed while addressing a public meeting here way back in 1952. So, this is a very sad event indeed for Pakistan.
CHETRY: It certainly is. Tariq Azim Khan, former Pakistani information administer. Thank you for speaking with us this morning. I want to bring in John King in because you know of course...
KHAN: Thank you.
CHETRY: Thank you. The implications for the United States as well. Pakistan being a key ally in the war on terror. Benazir Bhutto campaigning on the platform of wanting to snuff out terror and just how detrimental to Pakistan extremists ideology has been. In fact, before this happened, she was meeting with Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan as well. Is there any comment from the White House today?
KING: I'm e-mailing while I was sitting here, Kiran. I have e- mails back from a Senior State Department Official and a Senior White House Official, both saying that if this true, it would of course, be a grave tragedy. But the White House and the administration, saying they have no independent confirmation yet. They do, of course, know there was violence at the rally. But they are trying to get information. They are following the reports and they, of course, are well aware of the reports coming out of Pakistan that Benazir Bhutto, may in fact, have been killed.
But, again, we must stress often, there is conflicting and sketchy information in such a case and both the White House and the State Department say they have no independent confirmation. They're trying to get it from U.S. diplomats and security sources. Obviously, they would be in touch with the Musharraf government as well.
And you're right, this has been a sort of great tension. There are many in the United States who say that President Bush has been too lenient on Musharraf who, of course, took power late in the Clinton administration in a military coup. And they have said that because of the concerns about terrorism the Bush administration has been too lenient in pushing for democracy.
Benazir Bhutto is out campaigning as part of a new political agreement in Pakistan and as we have seen in past cases including immediately when she returned to the country there has been violence and uncertainty and instability that has ramifications not only for a nuclear nation like Pakistan and that region but as Barbara Starr was just saying could have enormous ramifications for the broader Bush administration terrorism policies.
CHETRY: And also, it's hard for many of us to grasp here in the United States just how dangerous of a situation we're dealing with. This was not an ambush. This was in terms of what was happening. This was a planned rally. People, both supporters and, of course, those who wished to do the former prime minister harm knew where she was going to be. And apparently there was unprecedented security including forcing hundreds of people who showed up to pass through metal detectors, to undergo body searches before entering this sprawling area and to hear, and again, we caution that we are finding out this information.
CNN not independently confirming it, but to hear that Pakistani media reports that she was shot in the neck, not only was somebody able to come there with explosives but then also armed.
KING: Well, that will raise a number of questions. Because Pakistan is not like the United States. The government has enormous control over security and the Bush administration has essentially warned President Musharraf and his administration, help with the security around the political situation for Bhutto and others coming in the campaign situation. Bhutto has said consistently the government has to be complicit or at least turning a blind out to any threats on her within the country. The Musharraf administration of course has vehemently denied that, Kiran. But that would be one of the questions here.
This is a state where security is paramount. It is a state where, as Barbara noted, especially up in the remote areas that Al Qaeda is growing and some would say thriving again and certainly expanding. In term of in the cities, in the major cities, is it local police, is it national police, is it the army? These are questions that will be asked. Of course, the immediate question at the moment is exactly what happened on the fate of Benazir Bhutto. But this is one of the most unstable places in the world and it has enormous implications not just on that region. Again, it is the breeding ground at the moment for Al Qaeda and if the Musharraf government falls, what happens then? So, the instability have a enormous domino effect. There are way more questions than answers.
CHETRY: Right, and this was supposed to be ahead of elections, the parliamentary elections at least that were taking place on January 8th. We want to bring in Barbara Starr right now who is listening to this and I'm sure scouring your sources to try to find out information as well of the news that we're just getting in. And for those just joining us, the media reports out of Pakistan that Benazir Bhutto, opposition leader who was holding a rally, was actually killed at that rally today. We are working to independently confirm that. But it is what we're hearing and we're talking right now with John King, as well as Barbara Starr.
And Barbara, what John mentioned when it comes to how much control the police have over who was coming and going at that rally and where the loyalties may lie as it pertains to protecting Benazir Bhutto, the opposition leader?
STARR: Well, you know, as all of us who have traveled to Pakistan and our own Zain Verjee, of course, was there during the recent security emergency can attest to, Pakistan security is a virtual policed state in these types of large public events. The Pakistani Security Services exert a great deal of control when they want to, where they want to.
But a determined suicide bomber, a determined attacker, as we have seen around the world, can get through really any security situation. So it will remain a matter of question, I think and who knows whether it will ever adequately be answered whether the security services were complicit in this or whether someone simply slipped through the security net.
You know, here at the Pentagon, it's a holiday week and very minimal staffing but I can tell you, within seconds of that news flash crossing the wires, key personnel here in the Pentagon, key senior military officials were very aware of it and are looking into it. And as one official has already said to me, you know, he said, goodness, wasn't she taking a risk anyhow being at all of these rallies out in the open in public. We have seen the campaign rallies across Pakistan in recent weeks and when you look at the video of them, they are raucous, free-flowing events, not the kind of thing you see here in the United States where they are actually relatively controlled. So there had been a good deal of worry about Mrs. Bhutto's security ever since she returned to Pakistan several weeks ago. John's point, the stability in Pakistan that is the key issue for the Bush administration. What the Bush administration has been looking for is to bring some stability to Pakistan, not leave any vacuum where any fundamentalist group, any radicals could really fill it and stage more attacks, whether it's Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda sympathizers, other fringe political groups, anybody who is really out for the destabilization of Pakistan and the concern, Kiran, as we have talked about General Musharraf's situation right now is with that recent security emergency, there has been so much unrest in the country. That is what the U.S. hasn't wanted to see.
You know, just last week, here at the Pentagon, they were talking about the new army chief of staff General Katani. The U.S. military had put a good deal of hope on this new man that he would be able to exert some control and that he will get the Pakistani Security Services and military back in the counter-insurgency work that they had been doing because as long as they have to deal with the type of things you're seeing on the streets of Pakistan today, they're not dealing with Al Qaeda. They're not dealing with the fringe groups and that is the concern for the U.S., Kiran.
CHETRY: And Barbara, we are getting new details in right now. According to one of the members of Bhutto's party, Wasif Ali Kahn, who was at Rawalpindi General Hospital. He is weighing in and confirming that, in fact, Benazir Bhutto died. He said at 6:16 p.m. she expired, taking into account the time difference. I believe that would be 12 hours. So at 6:16 a.m. Eastern time is when he said she died. Again, there are others, senior military officials and others who are speaking on condition of anonymity who are also confirming saying they are not authorized to comment but saying that Bhutto has died.
And in fact, my producers is just telling me within the last couple of seconds that CNN has indeed confirmed that Benazir Bhutto, former prime minister of Pakistan and current opposition leader, has died. She was assassinated, shot at a rally that was taking place with her supporters in Rawalpindi. Some of the last words of Benazir Bhutto will certainly have a chilling resonance.
She had just met before this rally with Afghan President Hamid Karzai who is making a two-day visit to the country. And she told him that if elected prime minister, she would be working to fight terror. She said, "We, too, believe it is essential for both of our countries and indeed the larger Muslim world to work to protect the interests of Islamic civilization by eliminating extremism and terrorism." This was after her meeting and a few moments ago, we showed some pictures of her appearing to enter a vehicle.
We are told those are some of the last pictures. The last words of Benazir Bhutto talking about fighting terror and then to hear the news and to have it confirmed here on CNN that Benazir Bhutto was, in fact, assassinated, possibly at the hands of a terrorist. We'll certainly be remembering this day, not only as it affects Pakistan, but as it affects the United States and the United States' mission as it impacts the war on terror as well - John.
KING: And Kiran, the choices run from bad to terrible to worse in this region. You have the Bush administration leaning on Musharraf. He gave up his uniform, if you will, step down as the commander in chief of the armed forces and remained as president. You are heading into this elections where Benazir Bhutto was the favorite. Her party was the favorite. Her administration when she was the prime minister was blamed for having considerable corruption.
And yet, if you talk to the State Department or at the White House, they thought it was very important that there be a dramatic change in Pakistan. Not only to change the political climate but to change the psyche of the people. You mentioned earlier the Former Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, was forced out of power by Pervez Musharraf in a coup late in the administration because Musharraf said it was a corrupt administration.
So, you have parties that have been blamed on corruption, you have parties of leaders who are viewed as flawed and you have a president right now who just gave up his military uniform but who without a doubt still has a tight fist over that country. So, instability within Pakistan and the domino effect of that again because of the tenuous nation of the Karzai nation in Afghanistan, because of the questions about the resurgence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, because it is a nuclear nation and because of the whole turmoil of Iraq and across southeast Asia and the Middle East. This is further instability at a time when the one hope in the White House and around the world was perhaps slowly political changes in Pakistan would start to turn the page on a new more optimistic day in the region. That day is not today.
CHETRY: No, absolutely not. And the chaos following this news is yet to be seen. We're just getting bits and pieces right now of how this is going to turn out. But again, if you are just joining us here on AMERICAN MORNING, the news that CNN has now confirmed that former Prime Minister of Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto, has died, that she was assassinated after a suicide bombing that took place at least thousands of supporters were there. At least 14 of them killed as well after an explosion.
The news that Bhutto actually was shot, that she suffered bullet wounds in the aftermath of that bomb attack, according to the TV reporting out of Pakistan this morning. Zain Verjee, one of our correspondents, who has spent countless hours and days in Pakistan and in fact was just there within the past few weeks alone, joins us now on the phone as well. Zain, your reaction to the news this morning that CNN has indeed confirmed that Benazir Bhutto was killed.
VOICE OF ZAIN VERJEE, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: This is going to be a major shock in Pakistan. This is going to be a major political earthquake that is going to stun the political process. It's very difficult to say what exactly will happen. We have yet to see, over the next few days, how this is going to unfold. But there is absolutely no doubt that there is going to be a serious leadership vacuum and a vacuum of popular leadership in Pakistan. Whatever Benazir Bhutto was, whatever her critics had to say and criticized her for corruption and poor leadership and really not leading the country in the right direction when she was prime minister, she was a popular leader. Her name Bhutto carried a huge amount of weight all across Pakistan. So this is a serious blow. This is likely a situation that the Pakistani military may have to step in and consolidate its own power in order to keep the country stable.
CHETRY: You know, you had a chance to speak to Benazir Bhutto not long ago. I believe it was a few weeks back. Did she talk about her concerns for her safety, knowing full well she was putting herself at risk every time she went to one of these rallies or even drove around Pakistan?
VEJEE: Yes, she did. That was the first question we asked her when we came in. And she said, yes. She said that she was fearful of her life. She knew that it was being threatened. She had survived the assassination attempt when she had first arrived and she said, yes, she was a little bit scared, but she also said that she loved Pakistan. She wanted to be there. She wanted to be engaged in the political process and she wanted to do what was right for her country. She said one of the most difficult things for her was her daughters in Dubai that were afraid of her life.
She had gone back to reassure them after the assassination attempt that everything is OK, I need to be here, and the security that the state had given her, as well as her own security, had been heightened significantly. She was traveling continuously in bullet- proof cars and she was unable to go out, she said, which was a little frustrating. She wanted to be out in public and wanted to go and campaign and wanted to go and meet people but it was much harder for her to do that. If at all, simply because of the security situation, so she was afraid, but she was courageous and seemed determined to push ahead.
CHETRY: We had some articles right before we heard the news of this about the tight security ahead of this rally because this was the first rally she was holding since her return from exile. We remember the video of her being really holed up, almost under house arrest, in front of her home where she was speaking into a megaphone there. This was supposed to be her first real campaign rally.
And they talked about the unprecedented security, Zain, of having people pass through metal detectors, undergoing body searches and as John King pointed out, just how tightly controlled the government and the police are when it comes to having control over a situation like this. So it does beg the question how, how could this have happened? Not only the initial explosion but then apparently the word it was gunshots aimed at her car that ended up taking her life.
VERJEE: I just got off the phone with some officials in Pakistan, the Pakistani spokesman, as well as security officials. And they say that right now it's a just a little bit chaotic and it's really unclear how this unfolded. They say that the security was heightened and stepped up considerably. Today is the first day of official campaigning. So, you know, obviously, it's a situation where the security boundaries were broken through, maybe accusations of complicity.
She was a target and she knew that. The last time there was an assassination attempt on her, she had accused members of the government, of the security force of being complicit with the attack. The government denied that. She did not say that the president had been involved in that but there was a fear of that and many of her party leaders were always afraid that this may happen. So security was heightened but, obviously, the situation in the country is such that they managed to slip through and this time was successful.
The extremists in Pakistan has always said Benazir Bhutto, you come back and we're going to get you. She knew that. She knew that she was a target and they appeared to have been successful this time.
CHETRY: Yes. Zain Verjee giving us a little bit of perspective on the sad news that we're reporting this morning. And CNN confirms the assassination of former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, opposition leader, returning to the country from exile just two short months ago, had her first campaign rally under heightened security, but, obviously, not enough.
We're also speaking with CNN's Mohsin Naqvi, who is at the Rawalpindi Hospital where Benazir Bhutto was taken after the incident. There is some video. These looked to be the last pictures of Benazir Bhutto as we see her entering the car that vehicle that was said to be bullet-proof under immense security. So, again, some questions and confusion as to how this was able to happen.
Mohsin, what do you know from the hospital right now about when Benazir Bhutto was brought there? Mohsin, are you able to hear me?
NAQVI: Yes, I can hear you. We can confirm, Benazir Bhutto's doctors have confirmed that she has expired. This was just told that a little while back and they are confirming that, yes, she has expired.
CHETRY: Can you tell us as to whether or not they are explaining the extent of her injuries? What it was that ultimately took her life? Was she shot or was it part of that explosion that took the lives of at least 14 others at that rally?
NAQVI: It was because of explosion. It was because of her neck injury. Right now, they're just (INAUDIBLE) they are (INAUDIBLE) and more and more (INAUDIBLE) that we are expecting some (INAUDIBLE) here shortly.
CHETRY: We will continue to track that with you. Thanks for joining us once again, Moshin. I want to bring back Zain Verjee, someone who has not only followed the story from the State Department but also been there to Pakistan in recent weeks and actually spoke just not too long ago with Benazir Bhutto herself about where this leaves the political situation, Zain. They were looking to hold the parliamentary elections on January 8th, not far from where we are right now. At the same time, there was talk that there was an attempt at power sharing agreement between Pervez Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto and we seem to see that break away a little bit. So, where does it stand as for the future of Pakistan?
VERJEE: Well, the election now is one big question mark. It's really a situation that could be entirely meaningless without Benazir Bhutto being there, because she is such a major player, was in the political process as a serious leadership vacuum and she is someone that did come on a huge amount of popular support in the country. She had her critics, but her named Bhutto carried a huge amount of weight in the country and people really saw her as a leader that really fought for the people.
Her presence in the country was something that the United States really wanted to see happen. The U.S. helped pave the way for Benazir Bhutto, who was in exile, self-imposed in Dubai for about seven years, helped her come home so she could be part of the political fabric and at least bring Pakistan on the road back to democracy. The more likely scenario is that the elections will be a question mark. If they push ahead, they would be meaningless and more instability in the country is likely. Mobs, violence and riots appear to be impending.
And what we now need to see is how the military in Pakistan acts. The military is the most powerful institution in the country and there are a lot of feelings in Pakistan in a situation like this. The military is likely to be a lot more repressive. So the democracy that the United States had been pushing so hard for in Pakistan appears to be at stake again.
CHETRY: It sure does. Zain Verjee, thanks, once again. Right now, we're going to bring in one of our terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen, who joins us on the phone as well. Peter, you're up to speed on the news this morning, developments changing quickly. We just got information that Benazir Bhutto, that former Pakistani Prime Minister, was killed. The information coming to us, the latest news that we're getting is that apparently a security advisor was saying she was shot as she got into her car and the gunman then blew himself up. That is the latest that we're hearing from the Associated Press this morning.
PETER BERGEN, TERRORISM ANALYST: Of course, very tragic news. The Bhutto family is being beset by tragedy. Benazir Bhutto's father was executed by the former military dictator. Two of her brothers were also assassinated, one in the south of France and one in Karachi in Pakistan. So this, obviously, is a terrible day for the Bhutto family. And as Zain was saying, you know, this causes immense complications in the Pakistani political process because Benazir Bhutto was polling at 63 percent just a few weeks ago which is way ahead of any other political figure in Pakistan. General Musharraf polling at something like 46 percent.
Easily the most popular political figure in Pakistan. The leader of the People's Party, the most important political party in Pakistan. In fact, the chairperson for life for that party, what that party does now remains to be seen. It's very hard, the name Bhutto carried such great weight amongst the people of Pakistan and also within her own party. It's very hard to imagine anybody could easily step in.
I met Benazir Bhutto just before she went back to Pakistan. In fact, I spoke with her husband and I said to her husband that obviously this is a great moment that going back to Pakistan after self-imposed exile since '97. He said, yes, it's a great moment but it's also obviously full of danger and we saw that, of course, with the first assassination attempt that killed more than 100 people and now, unfortunately the assassination attempt today that has actually killed her.
CHETRY: Not to get too far ahead of ourselves because I think many are still taking in this news that is just breaking here on AMERICAN MORNING of Benazir Bhutto being fatally shot at this rally. New information, at least coming into us again saying she was shot in the neck and the chest, according to a security advisor, as she got into her vehicle. And here we see the video. It must have been just moments before this of her getting into a heavily-guarded, getting into an SUV there.
So I don't know if this is from a different time this morning but we know that at least what we're being told from our producers is that was some of the last video that was shot of Benazir Bhutto. The question now, though, as we look at the instability and uncertainty for Pakistan, what is the next move by President Musharraf? Is there emergency rule put into place? How does he make decisions about whether or not the elections are going to go forward and how does this affect the criticisms of Musharraf that he has allowed, in some cases, terrorism, specifically al Qaeda, to flourish in that country?
BERGEN: You've asked a series of very good questions. I mean, you know, obviously, this throws the political process into great disarray. You know, It's possible to imagine that Musharraf might use this as a kind of reason to invoke some extraordinary constitutional measure. We had a reversion to something approaching martial law just recently and then of course that ended. You can imagine that resuming. Then, you know, obviously, Musharraf is going to have to consult with Benazir Bhutto's political party and he has to consult with Nawaz Sharif someday which he doesn't really like the other major political figure in Pakistan because the question of how the elections go forward early next month, I think, are thrown into great question now.
There will obviously be a period, I think, of national mourning in Pakistan. This is, after all, Pakistan's first family, almost akin to a royal family in many senses. Her father, the former prime minister, a family that is very, very powerful in the province of Sindh which is one of the main provinces in Pakistan. So, I think it will be, to answer your question immediately I think it's almost impossible. I think there has to be a period of mourning and also reassessment of what this all means and right now, I wouldn't say that's very clear.
CHETRY: Peter Bergen, stick with us. We're bringing in John King as well. I know you're been furiously blackberrying here from the set, trying to work some of your sources and get some information. As we said, this is the holiday time and so almost a skeleton crew around Washington in terms of the administration. Have you heard anything on response or reaction to this news that Benazir Bhutto was killed?
KING: I'm in touch with a number of senior Bush administration officials. The president is in Crawford, Texas for the Christmas holiday. He has been informed of this, we are told, and his national security team, the advisors traveling with him are trying to gather more information. I just received, as you came to me, an e-mail from a senior State Department official who says there are multiple reports that we view as credible that Benazir Bhutto has, in fact, died. The administration is stopping short of saying it can independently confirm that she has died.
In a situation like this, especially when you have such conflicting and chaotic information immediately after it happens, they will go of course to the Musharraf government. They will try to work through the U.S. embassies and consulates in Pakistan and into Bhutto's political party as well. But they're stopping short of saying that they have independent confirmation which is a government- to-government confirmation. But make no mistake about it, the Bush administration is responding as if Benazir Bhutto has died and as Peter just so well put it, this throws Pakistan into incredible internal political instability.
You can look in a situation like this and I'm told we will hear from the president whether that is a written statement or whether he actually comes out and speaks to the camera later today is still being decided. And at the State Department, the White House in Washington and at the, in Crawford, Texas where the president is today. They are going over their options. And as we discussed earlier today, a lot of that depends on the reaction of President Musharraf whether he, as Peter just said, decides to go back into a martial law situation and decides to flex military and executive power to maybe delay the elections and to crack down further on the political parties or say that the security situation now requires him to suspend the political campaign season.
Those are all questions that we're asking this morning, those are questions the White House is asking and questions Pakistan's neighbors are asking in a very unstable neighborhood and again as we said earlier there is a tragedy we're dealing with at the moment and there are a number, you can't even count how many critical political and security questions we need to answer in the days ahead.
CHETRY: John, stick with us as well. You talked about reaction coming in. Reaction coming in from the world markets as well. Our Ali Velshi has been following what the reaction has been, especially as it relates to oil at the news that Benazir Bhutto, it appears, CNN has been able to confirm and although the White House is not independently confirming it. CNN is confirming that Benazir Bhutto assassinated -- Ali.
VELSHI: And market traders are just getting this information in dribs and drabs. We have seen oil shot up about 0.65 cents a barrel on this news. Gold has shot up a few dollars. Market futures which were trading higher before this news, Kiran, all moved deeply negative. In fact, I think the last time I checked the Dow was down about 60 points or so. So we've moved from positive to negative partially because of the uncertainty. Markets, it's not the kind of thing that markets wouldn't have considered a possibility.
Obviously you heard Zain Verjee saying in Benazir Bhutto's own words she was afraid for her life but markets don't like this sort of uncertainty as well as the fact that in the midst of a lot of turmoil in that region, Pakistan has appeared to be an ally. Benazir Bhutto did have very good relations with the United States and as Zain pointed out has a great popular following in Pakistan.
So, there is obviously concern about what further unrest in Pakistan is going to do to an already delicate situation in the Middle East and that is of course having an effect on world markets in Europe trading lower as a result and markets in North America futures, they are not open for another half an hour, but the futures are trading lower. Oil as we speak now is about 70 cents higher than it was just an hour ago.
CHETRY: Ali, thank you. We're getting right now at least some of our most complete reporting from the Associated Press as to the moment leading up to and then the aftermath of the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. We're hearing now from Benazir Bhutto's lawyer Babar Alwan. The quote is "the surgeons confirmed that she has been murdered," meaning killed. This was at 6:16 p.m. local time, taking into account the time shift, about 6:00 this morning Eastern time.
They say that after the news of her killing came outside the hospital, her supporters were chanting dog, Musharraf, referring of course to President Pervez Musharraf, saying there was some violence there in reaction, smashing of the glass doors at the main entrance and others bursting into tears. Reporting that at least 20 other people were killed in that blast that took place as she left that political rally. She had been addressing thousands of her supporters in her campaign. This was the January 8th parliamentary elections that were just around the corner.
John King has been with me this morning. As you said, this certainly throws into uncertainty whether or not these elections are even going to take place, whether or not her Pakistani People's Party will even be able to and will be willing to in the next couple of days to see if there is going to be somebody else they are going to support and throw their support behind ahead of these elections.
KING: There are deputies within the party but none have the national stature, the international standings, the relationships, the history. As Peter noted, the Bhutto family has been through tragedies before but it is an institution in the country. But for all the past problems, again, the hope was in the Bush administration and pretty much across the western world that if you had these elections, however flawed the process, however tumultuous the process, it would begin a path of Pakistan going back to a more stable democratic time. Would there be corruption, would there be security issues? Of course. But this has been a very difficult spot in the world and there were some that this would be the first nugget of hope.
CHETRY: Right. Now, quickly, there also was, there are many in Pakistan who had some Al Qaeda sympathies who did not necessarily with Musharraf cracking down. Will the death of a popular and beloved leader like Bhutto shift that thinking?
KING: Look, it will certainly cause a moment of reflection across the country but it's a very large, very diverse country. So, when we talk about things we are generalizing.
CHETRY: Right.
KING: Up in the remote areas of Pakistan, tribal conditions rule. Not national governments, not political parties, small family tribes, especially in the remote areas where the Taliban is resurgent, where Al Qaeda has found refuge, where some still believe Osama Bin Laden is, to this day, Kiran, and those are smaller communities that are ruled by families and tribes. They don't like to hear the president of Pakistan, whatever his or her name is telling them what to do. That is unlikely to change. That is a decades and centuries old tradition.
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