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Nancy Grace
Wrong-Way DUI Kills Mom, Four Children in Interstate Crash
Aired January 02, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight: Ohio police say this man was drunk three times the legal limit when he rams his pick-up into a minivan loaded with a family of eight after a night of alleged binge drinking. The 24-year-old drives four miles the wrong way on a busy highway, a young woman and four small children, including an 8-week-old baby, killed instantly, the six children, husband and wife on their way home after spending the Christmas holidays with family, their van filled with toys and gifts.
Tonight, the frantic -- and I mean frantic -- 911 calls from helpless drivers who watched this tragedy unfold.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A man accused in a wrong-way crash in Toledo that killed a mother and four children apparently had a blood alcohol level more than three times the legal limit. Just moments before Michael Gagnon plowed into the family`s minivan on Sunday night, a restaurant employee called 911 to warn police about him. Gagnon appeared in court today. He`s charged with five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide and is being held on $1.25 million bond until his trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight: A family torn apart this New Year after a 24-year-old alleged drunk driver kills a young woman and four -- count them, four -- little kids.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten-year-old Jordan and 8-year-old Sidney (ph) Griffin lived here in Redford (ph) with their mom, but they left with their dads (ph) last nigh, hearing to Maryland, their trip cut short suddenly. A drunk driver in a pick-up truck going the wrong way on Interstate 280 in Toledo crashed into their minivan. Ten-year-old Jordan, her stepmother, Bethany, her stepsisters, 10-year-old Haley, 7-year-old Lacie and 8-week- old Vadie killed in the crash. Fighting for life, Dan Griffin, Jr., his 10-year-old daughter, Sidney, and 8-year-old stepson, Beau (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help them!
911 OPERATOR: Toledo 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We`re on 280, just got on 280 in Ohio...
911 OPERATOR: A red pick-up truck going the wrong way?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no. No. A red van and a truck just had a major accident. The man (INAUDIBLE) getting out of the truck (INAUDIBLE) red car. I don`t know if the man (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: So you`re saying there`s an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, a big -- a big accident.
911 OPERATOR: How many cars?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: I-280 and where?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I-280 -- we`re at exit 12, Manhattan Boulevard.
911 OPERATOR: Are you on the expressway or off of it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we just got off of 75 and...
911 OPERATOR: Are you on 280 or are you on Manhattan?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re on 280. On 280.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And there`s a red pick-up truck there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. No, I don`t see a red pick-up. It`s a black truck and a white -- and a red van.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. At least half a dozen people tried to prevent this horrific tragedy by calling police and begging them to get this allegedly drunk driver off the roads. Cops were not on his trial, racing to stop him. But despite their best efforts, the 24-year-old construction worker drove four miles the wrong way and then slammed into a family van, killing a mom and four kids.
For the very latest on this truly unimaginable horror, let`s go straight out to Charlene Gray, a reporter for WWJ 950 News radio. Charlene, what is the very latest?
CHARLENE GRAY, WWJ 950 NEWSRADIO: Thank you, Janet (SIC). Twenty- four-year-old Michael Gagnon of Michigan said little in his first court appearance since he was accused of a wrong-way crash, that crash that mentioned on an interstate near Toledo, Ohio, that killed five people. Gagnon appeared before municipal judge Michael Goulding (ph) and is charged with five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it looked like he was crying as he was led into the arraignment, but apparently, according to police, he was belligerent and uncooperative when he was first arrested. Take a look at this man`s face. What was his demeanor? Charlene, what was his demeanor?
GRAY: Well, he seemed contrite in court today. He said very little. His head was bowed. He seemed a little remorseful after he realized the tragedy that was caused by the drunk driving -- or the alleged drunk driving, but we do know that he did blow three times the legal limit for his blood alcohol limit.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Three times the legal limit.
GRAY: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That says it all. And another thing that says it all, Charlene, are the 911 calls. You know, there`s so many facets to this story, but if you really want to get to the heart and soul of this story, it`s those 911 callers, decent citizens on their holiday, frantically calling in to police, Stop this guy, stop this guy. And they tried, but they couldn`t. Let`s listen to these absolutely astounding, stunning 911 calls.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Oregon 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I work at Taco Bell, and there`s this guy -- he`s driving, like, a black -- a black Ford F-250. It`s like a diesel. And he`s really drunk. We got him stopped in our parking lot -- in our drive-through right now. And I was just wondering if you could send someone over here to, like, stop him or pick him up.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Toledo 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. I`d like to...
911 OPERATOR: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. How`re you doing? I`m in Ohio. I`m going - - I`m on 280 going towards Cleveland. We just crossed over that bridge that`s over Lake Erie. And there`s a pick-up truck going reverse in our lane, going southbound on our side, the wrong way. So somebody needs to go intercept this guy before he kills...
911 OPERATOR: So you guys are going 280 north and the pick-up truck was going south on north?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: At what exit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe it`s 7, and -- I`m coming up past exit 7. I`m going southbound.
911 OPERATOR: You`re going southbound?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. But he`s going northbound on the southbound exit.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he`s over the bridge. You know, this was just on top of the bridge.
911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. All I know is we`re driving, and I`m, like, Wow, there`s lights coming towards us. He passed us in the fast lane.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Toledo 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. This is Shelly. Hi, Norm. I`m calling going down 280 south, and there`s a truck on the expressway, going north in the southbound lane.
911 OPERATOR: Is this a pick-up truck or a semi?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it`s a pick-up truck. He`s getting closer.
911 OPERATOR: What`s the last mile marker you passed?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What, mile marker? I`m at -- exiting at Oregon, at Navarre. I bet INAUDIBLE) right now.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was (INAUDIBLE) that he passed us. He was coming at us head on.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Toledo 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`m calling to report a truck going the wrong way on 280 south.
911 OPERATOR: OK. I just got a call on it. What exit is he coming up to now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s probably coming up to 75 any second. But man, is he driving crazy.
911 OPERATOR: You think he`s now approaching 75?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, 75.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s going to (INAUDIBLE) I believe.
911 OPERATOR: Is it a red truck?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn`t tell (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Do you think it`s a Ford?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it looks like an old Ford (INAUDIBLE) 150
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) run me off the road.
911 OPERATOR: He hasn`t crashed into anybody, though, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not yet.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help them!
911 OPERATOR: Toledo 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We`re on 280, just got on 280 in Ohio...
911 OPERATOR: A red pick-up truck going the wrong way?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no. No. A red van and a truck just had a major accident. The man (INAUDIBLE) getting out of the truck and the guy got out of the red car. I don`t know if the man (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: So you`re saying there`s an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, a big -- a big accident.
911 OPERATOR: How many cars?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: I-280 and where?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I-280 -- we`re at exit 12, Manhattan Boulevard.
911 OPERATOR: Are you on the expressway or off of it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we just got off of 75 and...
911 OPERATOR: Are you on 280 or are you on Manhattan?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re on 280. On 280.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And there`s a red pick-up truck there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. No, I don`t see a red pick-up. It`s a black truck and a white -- and a red van.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The phone lines have been electrified by those series of 911 calls. We will get to those callers in a moment. But first, we`re very honored to have with us tonight Glynn Birch, national president of MADD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving. First, I want to acknowledge that you lost a son to a drunk driver, which is why you have become a crusader. And there is a child lost, a beautiful child lost to drunk driving.
As you hear that litany of 911 calls come in -- and remember, the first call came in at 10:47. The accident happened at 10:55, less than 10 minutes later. Does it strike you, as it struck me, how quickly a situation like this can turn very, very deadly?
GLYNN BIRCH, NATIONAL PRESIDENT, MADD, LOST SON TO DRUNK DRIVER: You know, I`m really devastated. I was taken back by the story because, as you know, I do feel for the parents, or the surviving parent, who`s in critical condition. It happens, and it should not happen.
But you have to take a look at the victims here. You know, we talked about the crash, but we have innocent victims, the children. Jordan was just a 10-year-old, Haley another 10-year-old. Vadie was just 8 weeks old. And I remember seeing a picture of a carseat sitting in the middle of the road.
It`s devastating. Even more devastating is to hear that the fire chief and the coroner have said this is probably one of the worst crashes they`ve ever seen, and this is all because of someone else`s choice, and it has devastating results to a family that is endless.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is, and it`s mind-boggling because, oh, my gosh, four children -- you can`t even comprehend when you look at these beautiful faces that they were literally blown -- the coroner`s investigator said it looked like a bomb hit during the Iraq war. The car was sliced open.
We have the deputy chief, Ron Spann, from the Toledo Police Department. Thank you for joining us, sir. I know that officers tried to catch this guy. Suburban cops got to the Taco Bell, the first call, within four minutes of that caller. They just missed him. What happened then? Why couldn`t they catch this guy?
DPTY. CHIEF RON SPANN, TOLEDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, in Oregon there, he got on the interstate at 10:52 PM. And then...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Turn your TV off. You know what? We`re going to come back to you, Deputy Chief. You got to turn your TV off. Those are the rules of the game here on television in order to talk on the phone.
But the phone calls have been flooding in. Let`s go to Charlotte from Georgia, with your first question, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. Do we know where he got drunk? Was it a public drinking establishment?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, you`re going to have to say that again. Say it real clear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Do we know where he got drunk? Was it a public drinking establishment, so that they can be investigated as to why they kept serving him?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, let`s go back to Charlene Gray, reporter- producer, WWJ 950 Newsradio. This all started at a bar. And my understanding, Charlene, according to one of the relatives, they were having this party, Mike Gagnon and some relatives, and there was supposed to be a designated driver that was supposed to come and be their designated driver for the evening. And according to published reports, the suspect just sort of picked up and left this Rodeo Bar. What do you know?
GRAY: You know what? We don`t have that confirmed at this time, Jane, but we do know that he was at a party in Oregon, and you know, there was a lot of drinking going on. We don`t know if he left with someone at that point or not. But we do believe he was behind the wheel. And at that point, when he left the hotel party in Oregon, he traveled to a Taco Bell, where he was obviously very intoxicated. And that`s where employees tried to contact police and let them know of the situation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mike Brooks, former D.C. police detective, you`ve got to empathize with these cops, trying to catch this guy. But in three minutes, he drove four miles the wrong way on an interstate and slammed into these people. How do you stop someone like this unless you catch him at that Taco Bell drive-in window?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, it`s almost impossible to stop him, Jane. You figure if he`s going 60 miles an hour on that interstate, that`s basically a mile a minute. And with what he had under his belt, he`s probably going a lot faster than 60 miles an hour. And it`s just -- when you have a Ford F-350 truck, as big as that truck is, against -- versus that minivan, that family didn`t stand a chance.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I have to say that looking at this -- and I never thought I would say this because I`m a big advocate of privacy -- maybe we need to have cameras at every mile marker along the interstate because you heard, Mike Brooks, those calls. They were trying to describe the car, trying to describe where they last saw it, and all that crucial time was lost. If they had cameras, the police could just look at those cameras, they could see exactly where that car was, and they could have stopped him the second he got on the road.
BROOKS: Well, they could, but if they didn`t have the officers in place to make those stops, the cameras wouldn`t have done you any good. Just like the cameras at Taco Bell, they can go back there, Jane, take a look, look at his behavior, if they have cameras there, and say, yes, it sure looked like he was drunk.
But what they need to do, they need to go back to the very, very source, where this party was taking place, and find out exactly how much he had had to drink that night. Was he over-served? You know, again, it`s going to be -- the lawyers are going to have to hash this one out from the proprietors of the establishment where he was to the time he got in the car. His brother was saying in reports today in the wire copies that he just left, got in his truck and took off.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s exactly what I was hearing, as well.
Doreen in Ohio, your question, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Is this guy going to be charged with methamphetamine or have a blood test?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I think I heard through all that. Is this guy going to be charged -- and let`s bring in the lawyers very quickly, Sarena Strauss, prosecutor, and Stacy Schneider (ph), defense attorney. Why wasn`t this guy charged with DUI? He was charged with five vehicular homicides, but not with drunk driving. Stacy?
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He was charged with a much more serious offense, a felony, five counts of it for the five victims of this alleged crime. And the charge comes from operating a motor vehicle in a reckless manner, where somebody would know that getting into the car while they`re intoxicated would likely cause death or serious bodily injury to somebody else.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want the lawyers to stand by. When we come back, we`re going to talk about what kind of time this guy could do, if convicted. Let`s remember, he has just been charged tonight and he hasn`t even entered a plea.
To tonight`s "Case Alert." Former police sergeant and suspect Drew Peterson still claims his missing fourth wife left on her own with another man. Peterson says the disappearance of another local Illinois woman who turns up after admitting she left with another man is proof, proof that Stacy Peterson could have done the very same thing. The young mom of two vanished on October 28. As for the mysterious bathtub death of his third wife, Peterson claims, Well, strange things happen, people do drown in bathtubs.
On a much, much lighter note tonight, very exciting news coming very soon. Video of Nancy and the twins will make its debut on the baby blog. Plus, check out the latest messages from Nancy herself. That`s at CNN.com/nancygrace. And remember, Nancy returns to Headline News January 7, 8:00 PM sharp Eastern. Be sure to mark your calendars and join us for Nancy`s return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help them!
911 OPERATOR: Toledo 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We`re on 280, just got on 280 in Ohio...
911 OPERATOR: A red pick-up truck going the wrong way?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no. No. A red van and a truck just had a major accident. The man (INAUDIBLE) got out of the truck and the guy got of the red car. I don`t know if the man (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: So you`re saying there`s an accident?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, a big -- a big accident.
911 OPERATOR: How many cars?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace, as a nation mourns a mind-boggling and totally, completely, utterly senseless tragedy. Four kids and a beloved mom massacred in a horrific crash near Toledo, Ohio. An alleged drunk driver has been charged.
Let`s bring the lawyers back in, as we just saw the faces of those victims, beautiful young children and a very beloved mom. Let`s take a look at the history of this guy`s driving record. He`s had two speeding tickets since 2002. His driver`s license has been suspended multiple times for not providing proof of insurance or registration. But interestingly enough, no previous DUIs. How is that going to play out when he goes to trial? Let`s start with Sarena Strauss.
SARENA STRAUSS, PROSECUTOR: In a case -- well, in Ohio -- first of all, certain states have laws that increase the level of the crime based on your level of intoxication. So if you`re a certain amount of intoxication over the legal limit, it makes the crime more serious. Ohio doesn`t have that. You`re either drunk or not drunk. You`re either over the limit or you`re not. And it`s really the number of previous convictions that affects what you`re going to get.
In this case, we`re really not worried about the DWI. We`re worried about the aggravated vehicular homicide. And those prior incidents probably aren`t going to have much of an impact on this case because he is charged with such a serious crime and he is charged with several counts of that crime. And we`re also looking in terms of what he could be sentenced to, to anything that could be consecutive, meaning that for the five separate charges, all the time runs together, to consecutive, which means that all the charges run one after the other. And he could be looking at significant jail time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And when we come back, we`re going to talk about a number of key issues, and one is exactly how much jail time does he face? You know, different experts are predicting anything from 2 years to 10 years. We`re going to narrow it down. And there is so much more. We have barely touched the tip of the iceberg.
To tonight`s "Case Alert." New Orleans tops the list of the cities with the most homicides in 2007. Still recovering from Hurricane Katrina, the increase in the homicide rate comes despite beefed-up patrols from state police and the National Guard. But here`s the good news, folks. Guess what? New York and Chicago have the lowest number of homicide in more than 40 years.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Oregon 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I work at Taco Bell, and there`s this guy -- he`s driving, like, a black -- a black Ford F-250. It`s like a diesel. And he`s really drunk. We got him stopped in our parking lot -- in our drive-through right now. And I was just wondering if you could send someone over here to, like, stop him or pick him up.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Mothers Against Drunk Driving pleading with the nation tonight after yet another horrific crash steals the lives of four kids and a mom. Police say a drunk driver was responsible. You are looking at the pictures of some of the children who lost their lives. What a tragedy.
Shana Soul (ph) is a friend of the mother who died, Bethany Griffin, and she has started a Myspace memorial. Shana, first of all, thank you for joining us via phone. We are very, very saddened by your loss. Our condolences from everyone here at the NANCY GRACE show. Tell us about your friend, Bethany Griffin, who died. I understand she was called a supermom.
SHANA SOUL, FRIEND OF BETHANY GRIFFIN: Absolutely. She was the kind of mom anybody would want to have, and she was totally devoted to her children.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, we`re obviously having a phone problem, so stand by Shana. We`re going to get to you in a bit.
But I want to go back to Glynn Birch, the national president of MADD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, because the key fact here, Glynn, is that according to police, hospital tests showed that this suspect had three times the legal limit of alcohol in his system. What does that mean? Describe how many drinks you have to have to have three times the legal limit.
BIRCH: It`s an awful lot a drinks. You know, the illegal (ph) limit is .08, and for an average-size man of about 170 pounds, that`s about three beverages or -- amount of alcohol. So it`s way beyond the limit. And we have to understand...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police investigators are trying to reconstruct what led to the horrible accident. Right now, they believe that Michael Gagnon had been drinking at this bar in Ohio. He left there shortly before 11:00 Sunday night and went to a Taco Bell just a few doors away for some food. Workers at the Taco Bell called 911 because they believed Gagnon was driving under the influence. Just a few minutes later, other drivers called 911 when they encountered his pick-up truck going the wrong way on I-280.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Toledo 911.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, this is Shelly. HI Norm. I`m calling going down 280 South and there`s a truck on the expressway going north in the southbound lane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a pickup truck or a semi?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a pickup truck. He`s getting closer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the last mile marker you passed?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m at exit at Oregon right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was at (INAUDIBLE) that he passed us. He was coming at us head on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, the grief is pouring out over the massacre of a living and very, very popular family, coming home from a holiday celebration, a big, happy family. Take a look at these pictures. Packed into a van, driving along innocently. Just veering around a turn when an alleged drunk driver in a pickup truck, going the wrong way on an interstate, plows right into them, killing four children and a beloved mom.
There is outrage tonight. I want to go to Dr. Roshini Raj, who`s an assistant professor of medicine at New York University. Thank you for joining us, doctor. What also strikes me as astounding is that all these people are dead, but the suspect walks out with barely a scratch, a little cut on his chin, and that often seems to happen in these kinds of cases. Can you tell us why?
DR. ROSHINI RAJ, NYU ASST. PROF OF MEDICINE: Well, in this kind of case it`s always hard to predict who`s going to get hurt and how badly. A lot depends on the direction of the force, the vehicles that each member is in, and it`s a random event. But certainly drunk drivers are very often involved in single car accidents, which are fatal. So we can`t say that just because you`re the one who`s drunk, you`re not going to get hurt. That`s definitely not true.
It just so happens in this case, he happened to be driving a pickup truck. I think it sheered off the van`s side and several members of the family were actually thrown onto the road. So that`s why they suffered those injuries.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do you, doctor, try to explain to somebody the deadly force of a large car, especially one of these monster trucks, when it impacts with the vehicle, especially one containing children as young as eight months? Is there any way to describe to people, to get it through their thick skulls, that this is essentially a murder machine?
RAJ: Well, you mentioned skull and that`s exactly what`s happening. If you imagine your skull going at 60 or 100 miles an hour into a brick wall that`s really what`s happening. You have a huge amount of force and impact on your organs, especially your brain, which is the most susceptible to injury of this kind. You can rupture your Aorta.
You`re basically slamming yourself against a brick wall, if you think about it that way. And that`s how you can see how easily it is to die.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring the lawyers back and talk about what this man, if he`s convicted of these five vehicular homicides, could get, because I have heard everything from a couple of years per count to 10 years. The statutes are so complex, even the experts disagree. Let`s start with Stacy Schneider, defense attorney. What do you think?
SCHNEIDER: My prediction is that this particular felony offense would yield a maximum penalty of eight years per count. We have got five counts here. He could literally be looking at a sentence, in my opinion, of up to 40 years. He`s a 24 year old man, which means if he were to get the maximum here, he could be out of prison by the time he`s almost 60 years old.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but Sarena Strauss, author of "Bronx DA," when you kill somebody with a gun, you get life in prison or sometimes even the death penalty. But somehow, when there`s a death involving or multiple deaths involving a car, it doesn`t seem to have the same legal of repercussions; why is that?
STRAUSS: The reason has to do with the person`s mental state. And when you`re looking at an intentional homicide -- and you can have intentional vehicular homicide -- they`re just rarer. But intent means that you went out with the purpose of killing somebody. And normally when you`re talking about vehicular homicide, you`re talking about reckless or negligent behavior, which tends to be less of a sentence.
That said, I do agree with Stacy`s assessment that this is such an egregious case that there is a chance that these sentences are going to run consecutive, and he`ll get more time that he would get if they ran all of the sentences together.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cameron Starks, psychologist, we have to bring you in at this juncture, because, obviously, when you drink and you get behind the wheel, you`re in danger of killing somebody. And I have to admit that I am a recovering alcoholic. In April I will have 13 years of sobriety. So I speak from experience that you can`t rationalize or reason a person who is drunk. You can talk all you want with a sober person and say, hey, don`t drink and drive. But when that person gets a few drinks in them, suddenly they become irrational, and sometimes want to jump behind the wheel of a car.
STARKS: That`s because, Jane, they`re in an altered state, as you know only too well. And when you`re in that kind of a state, you don`t really know what you`re doing. You think you can handle anything. Not that he should be excused for this, but clearly he was that intoxicated that he just kept going, and what a misfortune.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and Mike Brooks, former D.C. police detective who also served on the FBI terrorism task force, as we speak to you, we are showing pictures of other DUI victims, beautiful, innocent children and adults killed by drunk drivers in other cases. Drunk driving kills about 13,000 people a year, according to MADD. I have to ask you about the drunk driving checkpoints. As a reporter for years, during the holidays I have covered drunk driving checkpoints. Are there enough of them?
BROOKS: Well it depends. It depends from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and manpower. During the holiday season, there are federal funds that will allow local jurisdictions to have more of the sobriety checkpoints. But a lot of times you don`t have them on major interstates. And that`s one of the problems. You`ll have them on side roads and places that are heavily traveled in local jurisdictions, but many, many times you don`t see sobriety checkpoints on interstate locations, where this accident occurred.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Glynn Birch, national president of MADD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, you lost a son to drunk driving. You want to do anything you could do stop this horrible trend that kills 13,000 people a year. But yet you can`t reason with somebody who is drunk and, as a recovering alcoholic, I speak from experience when I say, sometimes they`re in a blackout. They don`t even know what they did. And when they come out of their haze, they may only remember bits and pieces of what happened, depending on their level intoxication.
BIRCH: Speaking for the victims, there`s not any length of time that`s going to justify the deaths of five victims, and there`s two more that are really clinging to life. And this guy took that choice and that chance. And another thing about law enforcement, you know, coming into the holidays, we have enforcement -- there`s high visible enforcement, and increased enforcement and this guy still drank and drove. What I want you to realize is that there`s not enough officers that we can have on the roadways to get all the drunk drivers off.
There`s 1.5 million arrests and not enough officers out there. So we need to depend on technology to help these officers.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What kind of technology? What kind of technology?
BIRCH: A device called an alcohol ignition interlock. It needs to be placed on anyone who is convicted of drunk driving. And there will be one day where it`s standardized equipment, such as air bags, where the car will know whether we`re impaired and simply not even start. I`m hoping for that day.
But right now I want to focus on the victims. I don`t want to forget about -- it`s an outrage what the penalty is going to be for losing a life after a tragic, deadly crime of drinking and driving.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Glynn, your solution wouldn`t even work in this case because this man has no prior DUI. So how do you stop something like this?
BIRCH: We are trying to prevent this. Now this case, we`re looking at more enforcement. Visible enforcement during the holidays is what we need. The government spent about seven million dollars on paid advertisements. But now it`s going to be up to each American to take that and do something.
But we have to have a harsh personality for anyone who decides to take that chance and destroy a family, like the family that was destroyed with this crash.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you, a harsh personality is the only way this message is going to get across. You can not drink and drive.
On a much, much lighter note, exciting news, coming very soon, video of Nancy and the twins will make it`s debut on the Baby Blog. Plus, check out the latest messages from Nancy. That`s at CNN.com/NancyGrace.
And remember, Nancy`s back right here on Headline News, January 7, 8:00 p.m. sharp Eastern. Be sure to mark your calendars. Be with us for Nancy`s return.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We received reports that he was drinking at the bar. He left the bar and went to the Taco Bell, ordered food and paid for the food. While there, they called the Oregon police, said that there was a drunk driver in the drive through or in the place or whatever. Oregon police responded, didn`t quite get there in time. He left Taco Bell, jumped on 280 northbound in the southbound lane, and three minutes later he killed five people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oregon 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I work at Taco Bell, and there`s this guy. He`s driving like a black Ford F-250. It`s like a diesel. He`s really drunk. We`ve got him stopped in our drive through right now, and I was just wondering if you could send someone over here to stop him or pick him up.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. When is it going to end? Drunk driving kills about 13,000 people every year, according to Mother`s Against Drunk Driving. Police say five of those deaths happened this past Sunday as a family`s holiday outing turns truly tragic, when an alleged drunk driver plows right into them. Tonight, the surviving father is, we understand -- and this is the late word -- possibly out of the hospital. One daughter is still very seriously hurt in the hospital, while the grief pours out for his wife and four children who died.
We are very happy to have back with us, Shannah Sewell, who is a friend of the dead mother, Bethany Griffin. Thank you for hanging in with us, Shannah. Tell us about Bethany. We have heard that she`s a super mom, made hand made costumes for the kids at Halloween, really lived for her kids. Tell us everything you know about her.
SEWELL: Bethany was her kids. They were what her whole life revolved around. And not just her own children, but all of our children too. She cared so much for everybody. She would make hand made tooth fairy pillows for all of us, and sometimes wouldn`t even know what the theme was of our kids room. But if she saw a picture -- like my son`s background is Nascar. She would just surprise you in the mail with a tooth fairy pillow that matching his room and that sort of thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you think of this beautiful blended family, as they`ve been described, they had an eight week old baby between them and that`s Bethany and her husband who survived. That baby, the eight week old, was killed along with Bethany. And then Bethany`s two daughters from another marriage, Laci Berkman (ph), age seven, and Haley Berkman (ph), age 10, were also killed.
And also, the surviving father, Danny Griffin`s 10-year-old daughter Jordan from another marriage was killed. So this is not just devastating one family. It`s devastating many families.
SEWELL: Many, many families, yes. Something I haven`t heard mentioned a lot is Jodie, which is the mother of Jordan and Sydney. Nobody`s made mention of her. And I would like for people to pray for her as well, because she`s lost a child and she has another one in critical condition. And she`s really going through so much right now. And having lost a child myself, though not in the same kind of circumstances -- we had a son that was born premature and died shortly thereafter -- there`s nothing that can prepare you for that. The grief is beyond measure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s mind-boggling. When I first saw this story, I just said, no, no, not four children. It`s almost impossible. Then you look at Sydney -- and the family issued a statement, "our daughter Sydney is making progress not only daily but hourly. She remains in critical condition. We hope for continued improvement."
Shannah, is there any way that words can describe what these various families, these blended families are going through?
SEWELL: There`s not. And Bethany`s oldest son Brett actually told me about an hour ago -- and he just wanted to know her email addresses and passwords so he could get on and speak to some of her friends and have someone to reach out to, because he feels so lost.
I know we all think that we`re wonderful mothers, but this was just an awesome -- she was such a cool lady. I mean, you just can`t describe. Her smile -- she lit up a room. And this last year, after she -- you know, they just celebrated their first year anniversary on the 18th of December, her and Danny, and I have never seen her happier. In the last ten years, I have never seen her as happy as she was this last year. I`m sorry.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, it`s OK. The little boy you referred to, Beau --
SEWELL: No, Brett?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He survived the crash, right?
SEWELL: Yes, Beau survived, but it`s Brett, the oldest one, that called me. He`ll be 17 in March. He said Beau is taking it in stride. Children are resilient. But he`s 16 years old and he`s taking the full weight of this. And Bethany`s ex-husband, you know -- Jack and her were together for 15, 16 years or more. It`s devastating all of them.
I want to also mention, I know this is not a popular stance, but we`re praying for Michael and Michael`s family too. He did a bad thing. He made a horrible mistake, but all of us fall short of the glory of god and we could have -- not everybody could be in his shoes. But he didn`t go out that night planning on hurting anybody and I know he`s going to have do his time and that`s understandable. But on the Myspace message memorial board we started I had so many people -- I know they`re angry, but just writing such hateful, mean things.
And I just want to say step back, and realize it could be your son in those shoes. None of us are perfect. And yes, what he did was horrible. And like you said earlier, he wasn`t in the frame of mind to know what he was doing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s alcoholism. And I`m not saying that he`s an alcoholic. But alcohol and it`s related disasters are truly a plague and, unfortunately, what it normally does to people who drink too much is they are just not responsible for their actions. They`re like flying blind, is basically the way I would describe it. It`s a tragedy for his family as well. It`s a tragedy for everybody even remotely touched by this.
Even the 911 callers will always spend their entire lives wondering, oh, my gosh, if I had only described that a little better, a little faster. It`s the massive devastation that all these crimes -- the ripple effects are just mind-boggling. And yet, time after time, more of the same, right Shannah?
SEWELL: That`s right. It`s Shannah, actually.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shannah, I`ve been trying to get it right, sorry.
SEWELL: And also, Dan did state that everyone in the car was asleep but him. I do find comfort in that, because before I knew that, I just kept going through my head, what did Bethany think when she saw that truck coming. You know, I know she was thinking, my babies, if she was awake. But we did find out that they were all sleeping when it happened and Dan was the only one awake.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Welcome back. And as we get to our closing thoughts, we want to put up some information about a memorial fund. If you want to help out this family that has been totally devastated and wiped out by this ridiculous, senseless, utterly meaningless, horrible crash. So, there`s the information if you would like to make a contribution. Glynn Birch, national president Mothers Against Drunk Driving, this past year that just ended has been filled with so many stories of celebrities driving drunk. We all know their names, some of the biggest names in the business. And yet, it was kind of light hearted, like, oh, look at those crazy celebs.
It turned serious with Lane Garrison (ph), because that involved a death. He`s a TV star. Do people give this the import that they need to?
BIRCH: They don`t. You know, people continue to drink and drive because they can. But what I want to focus on, you know, Mothers Against Drunk Driving is going to be there to make sure that we prevent deaths from happening. But we also have the compassionate side. We have been there and the family that`s been devastated -- the whole community has been devastated. And we want them to call us so we can help them.
Our number is 1-877-MADD-HELP. We want to help them through their most devastating time of their lives. Yes, we want to be there to help them through the courts, but right now we have a nation that`s hurting from a violent crime that doesn`t have to happen. No matter if you`re a celebrity or if you`re just an average man, you don`t have the right to affect anyone else`s life likes this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, and a very good way to end this program, with a very good point.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Private First Class Kenneth Iwasinski, just 22 from West Springfield, Massachusetts, on an extended tour of duty. He was training Iraqi police, remembered for his huge heart. HE wanted to serve his country. Phoning home often, he loved fishing and music, and planned only helping his dad restore a car when he returned home. He leaves behind grieving parents Dominic and Tracey, step mom Tanya and sister Amanda.
Kenneth Iwasinski, an American hero.
We want to thank all of their guests for their insight. Thanks to you at home for tracking this very important case with us. Remember to visit Nancy`s Baby Blog at CNN.com/NancyGrace. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. We hope to see you right here tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. sharp eastern. Until then, have a terrific and a very safe evening.
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