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Man in Prison For Nine Years, But Now Evidence Points to Someone Else; Trying to Get up Close And Personal with Rudy Giuliani Could Land You in Jail; From Felon To Freshman; Clinton And Obama Battling for Votes in New York City's Historic Harlem Neighborhood
Aired January 20, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A woman's naked, mutilated body found in the field. Police taught they knew who did it but the lead investigator was not convinced.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The day he got convicted, I was just almost sick to my stomach.
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HARRIS: A man in prison for nine years, but now the evidence points to someone else.
Obama and Clinton share the winnings in Vegas but polls show Clinton has an ace up her sleeve. Harlem.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was not and is not and will not become a race-based decision for me. And I hope that it has not and will not become a race-based decision for you either.
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HARRIS: She has this congregation and older African Americans are on her side, too. But is that enough to put her in the White House?
Trying to get up close and personal with Rudy Giuliani. Well, it could land you in jail.
We all love our shredders, but this woman could have lost her marriage over one.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything that has green and gold on it, I will never put near the shredder again.
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HARRIS: Football championship tickets turn to garbage and that's not all. Plus, steroids get new prompts at Sundance.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love steroids. I mean, I think I would probably be on and off them forever.
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HARRIS: Bigger, faster, stronger. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Tony Harris. Let's get right to it. Happening now outside Los Angeles, two private planes have collided in the suburbs of Corona. Four people are confirmed dead. Look at these pictures. One of the victims was on the ground. The planes collided above a commercial area about a mile from the Corona Airport. Debris, we understand, rained down on businesses below, including several car dealerships. We're trying to get a witness to this tragic accident on the phone. We will come back to this when we get her on the line.
Cold-hearted murderer or an innocent man? That questions tonight on everyone's mind in Fort Collins, Colorado. That's where this man, Tim Masters, is serving a life sentence for the brutal stabbing and sexual mutilation of Peggy Hettrick. On Tuesday, Masters conviction is expected to be overturned. DNA evidence now points to someone else. A district attorney is also looking into allegations of police misconduct and Masters is speaking out from behind bars.
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TIM MASTERS, EXPECTING RELEASE TUESDAY: Feelings of anger, resentment overall of the time I've lost. My life spent -- Ten years of my life spent in here. I mean, I expect some big egos involved, once they made up their mind, nothing could convince them they were wrong.
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HARRIS: Once they made up their minds, nothing could convince them they were wrong. How could that happen? CNN investigator and reporter Drew Griffith asked some key players in the investigation, that very question.
LINDA WHEELER-HOLLOWAY, POLICE INVESTIGATOR: These are my lost. I told my husband, never make me chose between you or my...
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She raises draft horses on her Colorado Ranch. But her real job as a cop and investigator for more than 30 years, has been putting hardened criminals behind bars, which is why what she is about to say is so surprising.
HOLLOWAY: The day he got convicted, I was just almost sick to my stomach. GRIFFIN: Linda Holloway says one man she helped put in prison for murder back in 1999 is innocent. And she has known that every single day for the eight years. Tim Masters has been locked up.
Is the murder still on the loose?
GRIFFIN: Why is this tough cop feeling such anguish? To understand, we need to go back two decades to February 11th, 1987, the day a 37-year-old woman, Peggy Hettrick, was found dead and sexually mutilated in an open field in sleepy, safe, Fort Collins, Colorado. Her bare legs pointing directly at a trailer where a 15-year-old boy named Tim Masters lived with his dad.
It was a field just like this and Masters would have to cross it every morning to catch a school bus to get to school. But on that morning, he saw something, something he couldn't believe. The body of a half naked woman lying there. He would later explain that he thought it was a mannequin. He kept walking, got on the bus and went to school and said nothing. That, more than anything else, would make Tim Masters suspect number one in a murder investigation that would follow him for the next 12 years.
HOLLOWAY: Because Tim Masters found the body and didn't report it, people couldn't get over that there has to be something wrong with that.
GRIFFIN: Based on that alone, Tim Masters was pulled out of school, brought into this interview room in the Fort Collins police department, and without an attorney, was interrogated over and over for hours. Five different officers peppered him with questions.
MASTERS: I don't know what happened.
GRIFFIN: Masters was even strapped to a lie detector, then lied to when police said he failed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday did you murder that girl?
GRIFFIN: For seven hours, the 15-year-old stuck to the same story. He saw the body, didn't report it, because he thought it was fake. And though the victim had been savagely stabbed and mutilated, there was not a trace of her blood on him, not on any clothing, not on the sinks of his trailer, not even on his hunting knife collection.
He never broke, no physical evidence, right?
GRIFFIN: But Holloway says she and the rest of the Fort Collins police never looked for another suspect.
HOLLOWAY: I got caught up in that two words, like he's good enough. Just keep working on this Tim Masters lead until you have enough pieces of the puzzle in order to take him down.
GRIFFIN: Tim Masters grew up and joined the navy and for 12 years, Peggy Hettrick's murder remained unsolved. Until 1999, when the same old suspect, Tim Masters, now a grown man of 27, was brought back into court, tried, and convicted, and sentenced to life. What was the new evidence that finally caught him? No new evidence at all. Just Tim Masters' old sketches and Masters' attorney says police and prosecutors used these old sketches to paint their own picture of a killer.
I don't understand how he ever got convicted in the first place.
ERIK FISCHER, ATTORNEY: When they allow them to paint somebody as a dangerous sexual pervert, it's easier to convict somebody.
HARRIS: And here's a thing to understand that those prosecutors are now judges, which makes these new allegations even more troubling. Did they hide evidence that Tim Masters was innocent and does new DNA testing reveal the real killer? Questions we've asked and people have answered. And none of it is what you might expect.
HARRIS: Back to our top story now. A convicted murderer soon to be set free on Tuesday. A judge is expected to toss out Tim Masters' murder conviction. It took police 12 years to make a case against him. Masters had gone off to serve in the U.S. Navy to start a new life, but police never forgot about him. CNN's Drew Griffin with part two of his investigative report.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): When she heard that after 12 years Tim Masters had finally been charged with murder, the former lead investigator Linda Holloway was thrilled. Until she saw the new evidence that broke the case.
HOLLOWAY: I kept thinking, there's no way he's going to get convicted. They don't have any evidence against him.
GRIFFIN (on-camera): But what prosecutors did have were these, Tim Masters' own drawing. One of them a body, bleeding being dragged across a field. Another showing what could be a stabbing, a wound. A diagram of the field, the spot where the body was placed.
(voice-over): A forensic psychologist hired by prosecutors told the jury these all add up. Whoever drew them was the killer and worse could kill again. That psychologist, Dr. Reid Malloy, wouldn't talk to CNN for this report, and by the way, never interviewed Tim Masters. And remember this, 12 years had passed. Tim Masters was no longer 15 years old and skinny. He was a grown man.
FISCHER: The basic gist of what we understood from the jurors was, again, what I said before. They were afraid to let him go. GRIFFIN: But the testimony on the drawings wasn't the only damaging testimony. Linda Holloway was also called to the stand. She was asked by Eric Fisher point blank, you don't believe Tim Masters is guilty, do you?
Holloway froze, afraid her answer would throw away years of detective work. She said nothing. Masters was convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to life.
So doesn't it bother you that when you were there and had the chance to defend an innocent man, you didn't?
HOLLOWAY: By answering that one question, yes.
GRIFFIN: Now Holloway is back on the case, this time on the side of the defense. The defense says new DNA testing they conducted proves Masters never even touched Peggy Hettrick, let alone stabbed her to death and drag her into a field.
And keeping them honest, we found a special state prosecutor assigned to review the case says the original prosecutors and police failed to disclose four significant pieces of evidence that pointed away from Tim Masters. Including the surveillance of Masters produced nothing suspicious. That an FBI profiler hired by police told them Masters' sketches prove nothing and a plastic surgeon hired by police who said it would be difficult for a 15-year-old to make such skillful incisions to the woman's body.
Significant pieces of evidence?
DON QUICK, SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: Yes. How significant is something that still needs to be determined.
GRIFFIN: And you're a prosecutor, right? Would it be significant in a case you were prosecuting?
QUICK: I think that's what we stipulated to.
GRIFFIN: Late Friday night in a stunning development, special prosecutor Don Quick went beyond just stipulating withheld evidence. He announced new evidence, DNA tests pointing to a new suspect, not Masters, as the more likely killer.
QUICK: The result of this comparison was to confirm the presence of DNA consistent with the alternate suspect and inconsistent with Tim Masters. It is our belief as special prosecutors in this case that this new evidence meets the constitutional requirements of rule 35C that requires a vacation of the original conviction and sentence and entitles Mr. Masters to a new trial.
GRIFFIN: Tim Master's next court appearance is Tuesday when it is expected he will be freed from prison. The alternative suspect, Masters' attorney tells CNN, is an old boyfriend of Peggy Hettrick and Fort Collins police only briefly suspected 21 years ago.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Fort Collins, Colorado. (END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So you heard the story. Now you will hear from him. Tim Masters speaks out about what he calls the twilight zone. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
HARRIS: Tim Masters, just remind you, he's been in prison for almost a decade serving a life sentence for a murder conviction. Now, a Colorado special prosecutor plans to recommend that Masters be released Tuesday because DNA evidence points to a different suspect in the case. Now, yesterday Tim Masters talked about his ordeal in a prison interview with Paula Woodward of CNN affiliate KUSA.
PAULA WOODWARD, CNN AFFILIATE KUSA (voice-over): Saturday afternoon, a different Tim Masters, he is in the zone between being free and not. Pretty sure he's going to get out on Tuesday, but not quite trusting it.
Have you had a chance to make any plans?
MASTERS: No, I haven't made any plans yet.
WOODWARD: Do you know what's going to happen on Tuesday when you walk out the door?
MASTERS: I imagine we'll get together with my family. We always will get together. Probably have a little party.
WOODWARD: Who will you stay with?
MASTERS: I don't know yet.
WOODWARD: He's a self-described hopeful pessimist.
MASTERS: Well, I've always had hope. I've been pessimistic at the same time though. Hope for the best. Expect the worst. What was the part of the question? Two hours of sleep.
WOODWARD: Imagine if you can, being in prison for 9 1/2 years, 9 1/2 years, and you've killed no one. How do you survive? How did he survive?
MASTERS: It was my family. My support system out there. I couldn't have done it if I didn't have such a supportive family out there. They kept me going through all the dark days.
WOODWARD: Think about that time.
MASTERS: I've been locked up for ten years, so the world is bound to have moved on in the last ten years. So I have to react myself to the world out there.
WOODWARD: Like cell phones.
MASTERS: Like cell phones, yes. What's the job market like right now? I was locked up before 9/11. So what it's like to travel now? I don't know. What kind of -- how hard is it to get a driver's license this day and age. How hard is it going to be to make a living? I mean, when I got locked up, gas was $1.10 a gallon. Now $3 something a galloon.
WOODWARD: He admits he was teary last night over thoughts of seeing his family. And since, yes, he has emotional baggage from prison.
MASTERS: Just feelings of anger, resentment over all the time I've lost. My life spent -- ten years of my life spent in here. Yes, I mean, Yes, I expect that.
WOODWARD: About those who prosecuted him in 1999.
MASTERS: Some big egos involved. Once they made up their mind, nothing could convince them that they were wrong.
WOODWARD: Maria Liu, one of his two attorneys will say it more strongly.
MARIA LIU, ATTORNEY: He was convicted because he was framed. I mean, he was framed.
WOODWARD: Tim Masters, the hopeful pessimist, says he knows he will be free, quite frankly, when the following happens.
MASTERS: It will completely sink in when, like I've been saying, when the door hits me in the butt for the final time on the way out.
HARRIS: And remember, you can see a complete rundown of the Tim Masters' case and lots of other crime stories in our website. The address at cnn.com/crime.
CNN brought you the story. Remember this young man sent to prison for consensual sex? Well, guess what he's got himself into now.
HARRIS: From felon to freshman, Genarlow Wilson started college this week after a two-year detour through the school of hard knocks. As a teen, Wilson was sent to prison for consensual sex with another teen in Georgia. CNN's Rick Sanchez now with an exclusive update you will see only on CNN.
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RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A freshman at Morehouse College in Atlanta. But this student took a road here like none of his classmates. Not even out of high school, Genarlow Wilson found himself in prison serving a ten-year sentence. He was ensnared by a law designed for adult sexual predators. Georgia legislators later changed that law because of his case. Wilson was convicted of having consensual oral sex with a teenage girl. He was 17 at the time and she was 15.
At no time did you tell that young lady that she had to give you oral sex?
GENARLOW WILSON, COLLEGE STUDENT: No, sir.
SANCHEZ: There was an international outcry over Wilson's sentence, but when Georgia legislatures changed the law, they did not make it apply retroactively to Wilson. I confronted the president Pro Tem of the Georgia senate after hearing him say this.
ERIC JOHNSON, PRESIDENT PRO TEM, GEORGIA SENATE: Are you aware that this boy's videotape that rape?
SANCHEZ: I reminded Senator Johnson that the jury convicted Wilson of aggravated child molestation, not rape, for a consensual act.
Do you feel bad about the fact that you characterize this as a rape when you're talking yesterday in the senate?
SANCHEZ: You don't have any problem with that because it wasn't a rape.
JOHNSON: It was a rape in my mind.
SANCHEZ: Genarlow Wilson sat in prison for more than two years through countless legal ups and downs before a judge ordered him free and said he did not have to register as a convicted sex offender.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he's out.
SANCHEZ: But the legal rollercoaster Genarlow was caught up in was far from over. To the shock of most people, Georgia's attorney general appealed Wilson's release and he remained behind bars. Finally, last October, the Georgia Supreme Court ruled the Genarlow Wilson sentence was cruel and unusual and grossly disproportionate to what he did.
WILSON: From day one I said that -- you know, not just me but, you know, all of us. You know, we made decisions and I felt I could have been better but I do not felt like we've all learned from that experience. And all we can do is move forward. You can't step back. SANCHEZ: So how do you restart your life? For Wilson, its here as freshman at Atlanta's Morehouse College in his dorm room preparing for his first day of class.
WILSON: My dad told me to be myself so I'm going to be myself (INAUDIBLE).
SANCHEZ: Wilson was an honor student in high school. And the foundation of radio host Tom Joyner gave him a scholarship for college. Wilson's new mentor, Morehouse dean, Alvin Darden.
SANCHEZ: Dean Darden expects a lot of his new charge.
ALVIN DARDEN, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE DEAN: Regardless of what has happened in the past, he's a human being and I believe and I expect him to march on this campus one day, not five or six years, but I expect four years, to be a Morehouse graduate.
SANCHEZ: It's Genarlow Wilson's plan as well. A plan that includes getting to the head of the class.
WILSON: I'm trying to stay as close as I can to the professor or other teacher.
SANCHEZ: After a long painful road, Genarlow Wilson is back on track. Rick Sanchez, CNN, Atlanta.
HARRIS: Well, today Senator Hillary Clinton went up to Harlem but what does this rally illustrate about her support within the African-American community. More than you might think.
HARRIS: Senators Hillary Clinton and John McCain riding very high tonight with two big wins behind them but the road to the White House is still long and winding. Clinton edged out Senator Barack Obama in a Nevada Democratic caucus yesterday by just about 6 percentage points. She scored high with women and Latinos.
This is Clinton's second win of the race so far and John McCain racked up his second win at the South Carolina Republican primary beating out his rivals with 33 percent of the vote. The Democrats get their turn in South Carolina next Saturday and the nomination is still very much up for grabs. Right now, Senator Hillary Clinton is campaigning in her home state of New York. The primary there is on Super Tuesday, February 5th. And both Clinton and Senator Barack Obama are battling for votes in New York City's historic Harlem neighborhood. CNN's Jim Acosta has more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The honorable Hillary Clinton.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Honorable after her victory in Nevada, Hillary Clinton didn't fly to South Carolina where the next Democratic primary is less than a week away. She campaigned in Harlem to defend her home turf.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This election is about the future and its particularly about the future of the young people growing up right here in this community.
ACOSTA: Harlem is fast becoming a key battle ground in the race to win the New York primary on Super Tuesday. Over the weekend, Barack Obama opened up a campaign office in this historic African- American neighborhood. He has his own version of show time at the Apollo.
BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I need you standing with me. So our children and grandchildren have the same hopes and opportunities that somebody gave me.
ACOSTA: After Bill Clinton left the White House, and chose Harlem as the site of his post presidential office but he's not running. She is says state senator Bill Perkins an Obama supporter.
You're not being very neighborly supporting this guy from Illinois.
BILL PERKINS, NEW YORK STATE SENATE: Well, the definition of neighborly is not the way you are suggesting. He's my neighbor. We welcome him as a neighbor but we're talking about something more important than being a neighbor. We're talking about the future of this country.
ACOSTA: But Harlem's legendary congressional leader, Charles Rangel, is backing Clinton despite Obama's pioneering candidacy.
CHARLES RANGEL, (D) NEW YORK: It's a sense of pride. But in terms of governor of the country, I think it's safe to say, we really know Hillary Clinton better.
ACOSTA (on-camera): These days campaigning in Harlem is not so easy for Clinton. She's careful to congratulate Obama on his historic run for presidency but at the same time arguing she's a better fit for the job. Jim Acosta, CNN, Harlem.
HARRIS: Arrested on the campaign trail, that tops tonight's "Dogbone Politics." Florida police took a woman into custody at a Rudy Giuliani event in Sun City. They say M. Isabel Darcy repeatedly demanded to speak with the GOP presidential candidate. Became disruptive, and then refuse to leave. She was charged with trespassing. Police say Darcy told them a car in Giuliani's motorcade hit her earlier in the day and she wanted to talk to Giuliani about it.
I am not a candidate for president, says New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Those are his words but his actions are sending some mixed signals. He was in Los Angeles this weekend lashing out at Washington for not fixing America's crumbling infrastructure.
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MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: Infrastructure is not sexy or glamorous and it doesn't make for great headlines. We all know that. But it's one of the most important issues facing our country and make no mistake about it, we have an infrastructure crisis.
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TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: I ask you does that sound like a campaigning to you. No, you'll be the judge.
Only in Vegas. One precinct there couldn't break the tie in yesterday's Nevada democratic caucuses so they relied on the good-old- fashioned card draw. Tom Komenda is a Clinton supporter and he was there. Listen to him as he describes the process.
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TOM KOMENDA: We pulled out a deck of cards and drew. Highest card won the extra delegate.
HARRIS: OK, so let's break this down. So a supporter of Barack Obama went first and drew what card?
KOMENDA: She ended up drawing the 10 of spades.
HARRIS: The 10 of spades and what was the reaction in the room?
KOMENDA: Well, my reaction was, oh, shoot!
HARRIS: And now tell me in full disclosure here. Why was that your reaction?
KOMENDA: Well, because I'm a Clinton supporter.
HARRIS: OK, so now the Clinton supporter pulls a card and the card is?
KOMENDA: The queen of hearts.
HARRIS: The queen of hearts.
HARRIS: And there you go. Now, let me ask you something -- do you get to go now to -- do you get to go to Denver?
KOMENDA: No, I don't get to go to Denver. The way it goes right now is the Clinton supporters there asked me to be one of their delegates, which is a city delegate. From there, I will be nominated as a city delegate going from there. If I'm elected there, I become a county, then I'll go to the state. If elected at the state, I would then go on to Denver and see you guys in person.
HARRIS: All right. How do you like your chances?
KOMENDA: I love my chances!
HARRIS: You love your chances. Any shenanigans with the cards? Who was shuffling?
KOMENDA: You know what? It started out as -- they started shuffling the cards and you could actually see the actual playing cards. I was, like, stop, stop, stop. What casino do you go into where they're going to show you the playing cards when you're playing blackjack?
HARRIS: Oh, my goodness. Only in Vegas.
KOMENDA: So I went up there and I said, no, if we're going to shuffle, we're going to shuffle the way they do in the casinos where you can't see the face cards or the playing card at all. So I shuffled. Then an Obama representative shuffled. Then one from the Obama picked the 10 of spades and one of the Clinton supporters picked the queen of hearts.
HARRIS: Well, Tom, what a great story. Only in Vegas!
KOMENDA: Only in Vegas.
HARRIS: And good luck. And maybe we'll see you in Denver.
KOMENDA: Sounds great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Again, that was Clinton supporter, Tom Komenda. Look, sounds like politics Vegas style.
Old school versus new school. It's race in politics 101. Coming up, we take a deeper look into the African-American vote and the generational divide.
HARRIS: Tonight, as the nation observes the Martin Luther King Jr. Holiday, the race for the Democratic nomination shine as spotlight on an historic time for America's African-American community. Two candidates are locked in an unprecedented battle for voters. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux has more from South Carolina.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In South Carolina, where nearly half of the Democratic voters are African- American, there's a fierce fight for their support. Polls taken last month suggests there's also a generational divide. Older black voters going for Hillary Clinton. Younger voters backing Barack Obama. We went to see for ourselves and found 17-year-old, Joseph Davis, squarely in Obama's camp. JOSEPH DAVIS, OBAMA SUPPORTER: He had opportunities and chances and sometimes we blew it but I feel that, you know, Barack Obama's going to set a trend for more African and maybe myself or one of my family members, may one day be in the same position.
MALVEAUX: Grandmother, Sheryl Mack, backs Senator Clinton.
SHERYL MACK, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I see her as my sister and also as a peer. But I also think that she has a broad appeal.
MALVEAUX: Hillary Clinton's appeal, many old African-American tell us, comes from their appreciation of her work in the Civil Rights movement and her husband, President Bill Clinton's policies supporting the black community.
SAMUEL ROBINSON, COUNCIL MEMBER, AWENDAW, SOUTH CAROLINA: It is true on the one hand because the older people remember. As the Jewish people say, we never forget.
MALVEAUX: Forgetting what the Clintons did, some say, is like betraying an old friend.
DR. KATIE CATALON, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I need to tell them they need to go back 12 years ago to see what that administration did and because of that administration. That is why they are colleges and universities today.
MALVEAUX: But some young people like Joseph say their elder's message as too cautious.
DAVIS: We only know what is being told to us. We weren't there a long time ago. So the older generation tells us as young kids say that the black can't do that. We don't have to pay attention to what our grandmother and grandfathers did and believe that has happened.
MALVEAUX: And the more people we talked to, the more we discovered older voters also believe it can happen, an African- American can be elected president. The church elders at St. James Presbyterian all talked about their deep affection for Clinton but are supporting Obama.
CHARLOTTE DUNN, OBAMA SUPPORTER: Some of the struggles that we as black women face, I don't believe she can speak to them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like these ladies say, a change. Hillary's been in the White House.
MALVEAUX: Some see an Obama win as a civil rights victory after years of personal struggle.
ROBINSON: It's a little more than Obama at this point. It's becoming bigger than him.
MALVEAUX: Is that a good thing?
ROBINSON: It's a very good thing. MALVEAUX: It's a complicated thing for many black voters who say they are struggling between competing loyalty, whether to support Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. But young and old both say they believe Obama at least should get a chance. Having said that, I want New Hampshire proof. You can't predict how these things are going to go. Suzanne Malveaux CNN, Charleston, South Carolina.
HARRIS: OK, so when it comes to African-American voters, there's also an overwhelming sense, at least, of a generational divide. The Clinton campaign seems to be more appealing to seasoned African- American voters while the Obama campaign is attracting new and younger voters. We thought we'd kick that around a little bit. With me is Dr. Ben Chavis, president of the Hip-Hop Summit Action Network. Ben, great to see you. It's been a while, my friend.
BEN CHAVIS, PRESIDENT, HIP-HOP SUMMIT ACTION NETWORK: Thank you, Tony. It's good to be back.
And political analyst, Keli Goff. Keli, it's great to see you. The author of "Party Crashing: How the Hip-Hop Generation Declared Political Independence." Thank you both for being here on a Sunday night.
KELI GOFF, POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR: Thank you for having me.
HARRIS: All right. Here is the question for both of you. And Ben, let's start with you. What accounts for what many are calling a generational divide here? If you're upscale in black, you're more inclined it seems to favor Obama and more down scale in black, you tend to support Hillary Clinton. What do you make of it, Ben?
CHAVIS: Well, I think it's not just a generation gap. I think it's a cultural gap. Keep in mind, the outflow of young voters just didn't start in 2008. If you go back to 2004, where one of the largest turnout in young people voting, not only in black voters, Latino, white, young people. And I think that young people are voting for change. And to the extent to which Obama represents change or Clinton represents change, that's how young people will vote. And I think it's a good thing. It's a healthy debate.
I think this is not a racial matter. It's not a gender matter. It's a matter who speaks to the issues. I just got back from Tampa, Florida where we have a hip-hop soda shop and the place was packed with young, urban professionals, college students. (INAUDIBLE) there were black, there were white, there were Latino, they were packed in the place. Watching the returns for the New Hampshire primary.
HARRIS: Well, Ben, let me let Kelly in here. Kelly, what do you make of this? Is there a divide? Are we making too much of it? What do you think?
GOFF: No, there's definitely a divide. And you know, I say that you can even see it when you look at the elected officials who are supporting the two candidates. You know, as you mentioned, there's the Charles Rangel and the John Conyers, and the representative John Lewis all supporting the Clinton camp. And then you have Mayor Cory Booker of Newark, Mayor Adrian Fenty of Washington D.C., Congressman Arthur Davis supporting Obama.
And so I definitely agree with Dr. Chavis doctor about the factors that he mentioned but I would also say, that sort of the big elephant in the room, the one that no one really likes to talk about, is the electability factor. Which is that older African-American who have more recollections of dark days of our country's history segregation simply don't believe that it's necessarily feasible or likely that an African-American man will be elected to the presidency in their lifetime.
HARRIS: And, Ben, that cuts to this idea that why people will say one thing to pollsters and then go into the booth and vote a different way.
CHAVIS: Well, I think that's true and I think we've already seen where some of the pollsters have been wrong. I think what is interesting, Tony, and I agree with Keli's analysis, is that this is a healthy thing for American Democracy, to have so many -- I mean, literally, throngs of young people flocking to the polls. I think South Carolina is going to surprise a lot of people. It's going to be a much closer race.
HARRIS: What do you mean? What do you mean? Because if you look at the polling, it suggested at least right now Barack Obama is going to win the African-American vote and possibly by a large margin.
CHAVIS: What I think he's going to get a lot of African-American voters but I also think he's going to get white voters in South Carolina. And I think also Clinton will also surprise a lot of people. I think both candidates represent change. And the candidate that represents the most change is going to get the most votes.
HARRIS: But what does that mean? I have heard change again.
CHAVIS: I know. But change means in this context is that your race no longer matters in America. Or your gender no longer matters in this particular race. What matters are the issues. And I think that is what the change is about. The transforming of the political structure of America.
HARRIS: Keli, I need some meat on this change bone.
GOFF: Well, Tony, up to his point, you know, keep in mind, while you're right that it looks like Obama now has a commanding lead among African-American voters, nationwide, not just in South Carolina but nationwide, keep in mind that shift just started occurring in the last two to three weeks. So I think that, to Dr. Chavis' point, this is a really good statement, to show that African-American voters didn't just sort of just fall in line based on race. They really have been watching and following closely, like all-American voters.
HARRIS: OK. Are you ready? Ben, here we go. Do you believe you should vote, out of your own self interest and that yourself interest should trump loyalty to any candidate or any candidate spouse or race or gender pride?
CHAVIS: Very good question. People should vote out of their interests. And they should vote on the issues. Not on the personalities, not on subjects like race or gender that has held us back. We want to go forward. And I'm so proud of the hip-hop generation. It transcends race. It transcends the division of the past. You're seeing a glimpse now, Tony, of a new America.
HARRIS: Yes. Keli, jump in here before we have to go.
GOFF: I agree with everything that he just said. I think this is a real certain point.
HARRIS: So we can go. So we're done?
OK, Ben, great to see you again. Keli, as always, great to see you.
CHAVIS: God bless.
GOFF: Thank you very much.
HARRIS: Good to see you both.
All right, we all know men who were or trying to get bigger, stronger, and faster. And some get help with steroids. Now one filmmaker is exposing his own body-building family and the steroids used that goes along with it. We go live to the Sundance Film Festival with a preview. That is next.
HARRIS: You know, one of the hottest films at the Sundance Film Festival is "Bigger, Stronger, Faster." It is about two weightlifting brothers and their use of steroids. A third brother actually made the documentary to help him understand how his family got suck into this world.
CNN entertainment correspondent Brooke Anderson is in Sundance, Utah tonight. Brooke, great to see you. You know, the timing for this film couldn't be better. The use of and the abuse of steroids certainly in the news a lot these days.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Tony. We've seen it in the Mitchell report. We've heard about it in high school locker rooms. And now we are getting the story firsthand. Filmmaker Christopher Bell deals into the steroid subculture by exposing his own use of the drugs and also that of his brothers. Bell tells us in his own words how it affected his family and how they've pursued the perfect build. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER BELL, DIRECTOR, "BIGGER, STRONGER, FASTER": You can pull out a sports page and see something about steroids every single day. For me it's been -- something that's been affecting my family for about the past 15 years. I had an older brother who used steroids to play football. Steroids were kind of in a way a gateway to doing -- getting into other drugs. And I also have a younger brother who uses steroids and he became a world champion power lifter and, you know, he's kind of the epitome of the win at all costs culture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that I'm into it, I realize it's not really all that bad. I love steroids. I mean, I think I'll probably be on and off of them probably forever.
C. BELL: My brother basically comes out and says that he's not ashamed to use steroids and it was very shocking to me to interview anybody who is willing to say that on camera.
Why do you think people in America are so uptight about steroids and steroids users?
GREGG VALENTINO, STEROID USER: Because they fear that -- they fear what they don't know. You know?
C. BELL: When I figured, if I wanted to make a movie about steroids, I had to find the biggest, craziest, steroid freak that there is, and there's no bigger crazier steroid freak than Gregg Valentino.
I mean, I like being big. Personally, the guy think in the picture you show me, your arms looked a lot better there than they look now, right?
VALENTINO: Without a doubt. Without a doubt.
C. BELL: He feels that what he is doing to his own body, he should be allowed to do whatever he wants to. And we do live in a free country and those rights have been taken away in some cases.
Getting into the Sundance Film Festival is probably the biggest thing that ever happened to me and my life. For me, it just the simple fact that there will be an audience for this film and I just want people to see it and enjoy it and hopefully learn something from it and take something away from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Tony, Bell and his brothers are here at the Sundance Film Festival promoting this documentary and hoping to find a distributor while they're here. And also, it's been a road trip for him, Tony. He tells us that he's run in to filmmakers while here, including Quentin Tarantino who wants to see his film. So its been a gratifying experience.
HARRIS: Given how this story dominating the headlines, you would think they would be able to find a distributor. But I know it's tougher. A lot easier to say than to actually accomplish.
ANDERSON: Well, the publicists have said that their screenings have gone well and they are hoping to lock down a distributor. So we'll see in the movie theaters. HARRIS: OK, Brook, good to see you. Thank you.
And still to come in the NEWSROOM tonight, a thief thought she would be easy pickings but this woman is no victim. You might not believe what she did but believe me, she'll make you believe it.
PAM JONES: Hi.
HARRIS: How are you?
HARRIS: Is this really your last night?
JONES: Tonight is my last night.
HARRIS: So Pam Jones has been with us for how many years? 9, 10, 11, 12?
JONES: Nine years here and 16 years in television. Nine years here.
HARRIS: And you're leaving?
JONES: And I'm leaving. Yes.
HARRIS: Last night, what a sprint earlier today for you. I don't we have any pictures of it but it was tremendous. We love you here, you know that, right?
JONES: I know. Thank you.
HARRIS: Well, Pam does a tremendous job for us. She is a master control right now but she's often up here. She's working the cameras for me and making me look cute. I know how tough her job is.
JONES: It's not hard at all.
HARRIS: Ye, right. Pam, good luck. You're going to be a stay- at-home mom, aren't you?
HARRIS: And which means you're about to take on the most difficult job of all.
JONES: Well, I have a 5-year-old and a 6-year-old and I started my own business so it's giving me the chance to stay home with my kids and spend more time with my family.
HARRIS: Tremendous. The most difficult job times two. We love you. JONES: Thank you.
HARRIS: And much success to you.
JONES: Thank you.
HARRIS: And check in with us from time to time, all right?
JONES: I will, I will.
HARRIS: Moving on bigger and better. All right, let's get to a couple of stories here before we run out of time.
There are some things that we all would agree can recommend a marriage. And when I heard this next story and heard that the marriage survived, I just had to say, "You've Got To Be Kidding Me." OK, maybe I am kidding.
But some things you just don't mess with, like tickets to tonight's Packers' championship game, a Wisconsin woman's husband is an avid Packers fan. So she's doing some house cleanings, sends one of his tickets through the shredder. Who knows? Maybe she knew back then how tonight's game would turn out.
And tonight's tip for would be burglars, robbers and thieves, do not miss with this Florida woman. A black belt in martial arts, runs marathons and both of those skills came in pretty handy when an alleged thief broke into her house this week. She chased them six blocks and held them until police arrived. Jacqui Jeras, we know its pretty cold outside.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I love that.
HARRIS: You know great story, though, first of all. And how about Pam, leaving to go home to be a stay-at-home mom, then opens and starts her own business, tremendous.
JERAS: Good luck to her.
HARRIS: All right. So, cold temperatures outside. Look at that map behind.
HARRIS: A journalist, so renowned Jackie Kennedy served her tee. We have CNN, remember one of our own. Stay with us.
HARRIS: A sad day for us here at CNN. A pioneer among journalists has died. Francis Lewine began her career as a White House correspondent for the Associated Press. She covered six administrations from Dwight Eisenhower to Jimmy Carter. The she spent nearly three decades at CNN's Washington Bureau. Wolf Blitzer has more on her extraordinary career.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Today U.S. troops are fighting in Iraq. But when Fran started in the news business, G.I.s were battling the Nazis in North Africa.
She was hired by the Associated Press in 1942 and covered every president from Dwight Eisenhower to Jimmy Carter. It made her furious that she was relegated to covering social events and first ladies, while her male colleagues covered the president.
But Fran didn't just get mad; she got even. The women who now have equal access to jobs in the news media owe much to her leadership and relentless pressure on this issue.
According to Fran, she showed up at CNN the day that President Reagan was shot in 1981 and simply asked to help out. She never left.
Continuing to work as a producer and assignment editor at CNN for almost as long as we've been in business, she was recognized for a lifetime of achievement, just months ago, when she was awarded the Medal for Distinguished Service in Journalism at the Missouri School of Journalism. We will miss her smile, her eagerness to join an office pool, her high standards, and her freely given advice to those just starting off.
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