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Nancy Grace
Actor Heath Ledger Found Dead in Apartment
Aired January 22, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Hollywood superstar, Oscar nominee Heath Ledger dead inside an exclusive Soho apartment. Police say a housekeeper finds Ledger unclothed and unresponsive in bed, over-the- counter and other prescription drugs strewn around the body. Reports emerge Ledger in full cardiac arrest when paramedics arrived. Was cause of death a drug overdose or foul play? Ledger`s family insisting the death was an accident. Tonight, the sudden death of Hollywood star Heath Ledger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We learned here that actor Heath Ledger has died, the 28-year-old found dead in his downtown Manhattan apartment this afternoon. An NYPD spokesman tells us Ledger had an appointment for a massage. Well, apparently, the massage therapist arrived at his home. His housekeeper found him dead. Again, just 28 years old. He had recently separated from his former fiancee, actress Michelle Williams. The couple have a young daughter together. He was nominated for an Oscar for his performance in "Brokeback Mountain" and is appearing as the Joker in the next "Batman" movie, which is due out in July.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news tonight: A gorgeous young Marine vanishes into thin air, Camp Lejeune, eight months pregnant when she goes missing. The burned remains of 20-year-old Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child found in the back yard of suspect Marine Corporal Cesar Laurean.
Headlines tonight. The FBI zeroes in on leads south of the border after a bombshell development. A witness reports spotting Laurean at a liquor score near Guadalajara. And three more letters mailed to Laurean`s wife, postmarks Raleigh and Houston. Tonight: How did the fugitive Marine make it undetected from North Carolina over 1,000 miles to Mexico? And tonight: New surveillance video of victim Maria Lauterbach the day of her murder, and new evidence found at the alleged murder scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news out of Mexico in the case of that Marine wanted in the murder of a fellow Marine. CNN`s Harris Whitbeck reports a cousin of Cesar Laurean says he saw the suspected killer in Mexico recently. Juan Antonio Ramos (ph) told CNN Laurean visited him at his liquor store near Guadalajara a week ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Cesar Armando, the one who lives in the United States, came to see you here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, just a few days ago, last week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): And what did he tell you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Just, Hi, I`m just passing by. He told me he was here with some buddies for a few days, and you know, it`s not the first time he`s come by to visit, say hi to the family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Is this he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, it is he.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Laurean is wanted in connection with the death of Marine Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach, who was eight months pregnant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight, the mystery surrounding the sudden and unexpected death of Hollywood superstar 28-year-old Heath Ledger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, a fire department spokesman has, in fact, confirmed to us that Heath Ledger is dead from a possible -- stressing the word "possible" -- drug overdose. It was at about 3:30 that paramedics arrived at an apartment in Soho, New York. That`s where they found his body. Apparently, what happened was his housekeeper tried to wake him up. When paramedics arrived, they did find what appeared to be sleeping pills near the bed where his body was found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you can just imagine what a shock wave this is sending on both coasts. Heath Ledger is such a huge star. It`s another big thing that people are talking about is the big-budget movie that`s coming out, really slated for this summer, starring Heath Ledger, and you know, what this will mean. He`s accomplished so much. And (INAUDIBLE) people are just wondering how this could have all happened. Very, very young star, 28 years old. And what we`re hearing from New York officials, they did confirm to CNN that it had to do possibly with some sort of drug overdose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Breaking news tonight. Was it foul play? Was it an overdose? Twenty-eight-year-old Heath Ledger dead in an exclusive Soho apartment there on the fourth floor at 421 Broome Street, the family insisting this was an accidental overdose. Found strewn around Ledger`s body, over-the- counter drugs, as well as prescription drugs.
Joining us live at the scene, the facts developing as we speak, the scene unfolding there on 421 Broome Street, Richard Roth, CNN senior correspondent. He is live there at the Soho apartment where Ledger is found dead. Richard Roth, bring us up to date.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you have many of the facts already, it seems, but the New York City police spokesman saying very firmly, We do not have a cause of death. And that`s going to be determined by the city`s medical examiner. It`s unclear how long that determination will take.
Star Heath Ledger dead. You can imagine, an enormous crush of cameras and reporters here, lights, action, but it`s the shocking death of Ledger on the day the Oscar nominations came out. He was renting an apartment on the entire fourth floor, found naked face down at the foot of the bed, prescription sleeping pills and perhaps other medications found in the apartment. But police here were not ready to call it any type of overdose, accidental or otherwise.
Onlookers shocked at hearing the news, many aware that he was starring in the latest "Batman" sequel as the Joker. His body was brought out. It was rather quiet as dozens of still cameras flashed in unison as the body was put in a van and then driven away. New York City police kept pushing cameras and reporters back, but it was a rather orderly scene, as these things go here in lower Manhattan, home to many Hollywood stars who like to live in anonymity in downtown Manhattan and escape the paparazzi when they can. A cold night here in lower Manhattan, depressing, as Ledger -- Heath Ledger dead at 28 -- Nancy.
GRACE: Richard Roth, CNN senior correspondent, joining us there at 421 Broome Street, an exclusive are of Soho, New York City. Richard Roth, I understand that -- you say that they are not prepared to call it an overdose. But very quickly, Richard, was there any sign of a gunshot wound, a stabbing, a strangulation, manual or ligature, any blow to the head, anything other than finding him naked with pills strewn around him?
ROTH: Police department official Paul Browne saying there is no violence or anything like that suspected, no foul play, he said, suspected in the death of Heath Ledger. He was supposed to come out of his bedroom for an appointment with a masseuse. The housekeeper discovered him, quote, "unresponsive."
GRACE: Joining us also tonight, senior editor with "In Touch Weekly" Tom O`Neil, recently spoke with Heath Ledger. Tom, thank you for being with us. What were your impressions of Ledger when you spoke with him?
TOM O`NEIL, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, you know, Nancy, he`s notoriously shy and jittery by nature. But this was about five, six weeks ago. I was interviewing him in lower Manhattan about his movie "I`m Not There" that Cate Blanchett was Oscar-nominated for today, of course. And he was really jittery. He was scratchy. He was pulling his hair. He was bouncing in his seat.
And the strangest thing of all, as soon as we were done with the interview, he jumped out of his seat and he ran to the other room. Now, I know that he`s a chain smoker. I just assumed that that was what it was. But now, with all these other mysterious allegations surrounding his death, I`m wondering, was there something else going on?
GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. Scratching, jumpy, itchy, hands about the face -- interpret.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Oh, it sounds like he was suffering from a drug addiction. People who have substance abuses, usually the drugs, even if they`re in temporary withdrawal, experience crawly skin sensations, all kinds of neurological problems. And they`re very agitated and can look like they`re hypomanic.
GRACE: To Brad Lamm, certified interventionist. Weigh in, Brad.
BRAD LAMM, CERTIFIED INTERVENTIONIST : Well, it seems like some of the signs that families see, many families see, when somebody`s struggling with addiction, might have been there. You know, a guy that people describe as really likable, was going through some -- a breakup, some other things, uncertainty in his life maybe.
But you know, there`s that fine line between pills that we take for real causes -- and sometimes I see it in my business, it`s a huge part of the work I do is the prescription pill problem. People get hooked on these pills, and before you know it, it`s really ruining their lives. And in this case, it looks quite possible that it`s cost him his life.
GRACE: To Dr. Kent E. Harshbarger, medical examiner out of Dayton, Ohio. If you`re taking over-the-counter, say, sleep medication, how many pills would you have to take to end up in an overdose?
DR. KENT HARSHBARGER, MEDICAL EXAMINER: It`s an excellent question. A lot of pills (INAUDIBLE) over-the-counter medications, most of the over- the-counter medications for sleeping, sleep aids, contain benadryl. You can take a lot of that with a safe margin. The problem is, when it`s taken, it`s combined with alcohol or other depressant drugs, and we don`t know well how they combine with other medications. Of itself, typically, you`d have to take a lot to reach a fatal range.
GRACE: Right.
HARSHBARGER: Combining it with different prescriptions, then you`ve got a problem.
GRACE: And back to Richard Roth, CNN senior correspondent joining us live there in Soho, 421 Broome Street, the fourth floor apartment where superstar Heath Ledger has been found dead, Ledger sprawled face down across the bed, unclothed and unresponsive -- Richard Roth, they`re very quick to say that no violence has been indicated. When was Ledger last seen alive?
ROTH: I did not hear any confirmation from a police department official about that. The housekeeper and masseuse at one point were in the apartment. But between 2:45 and 3:00 o`clock Eastern time in New York, the police say, that`s when his body was discovered by the housekeeper, when he did not come out of the bedroom for his appointment.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. I don`t know how they can so quickly call it one way or the other. They don`t have toxicology tests back. They have not completed autopsy to determine cause of death. We don`t know if the door was open, broken into, if there were signs of a struggle. I mean, it`s really early to make a call like this.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Much, much too early, Nancy. The first ones to arrive there were New York City EMS. And apparently, they then -- right after that, law enforcement arrived. It`s down in the 5th Precinct in New York City. So detectives are going to come in, take a look at the scene.
But keep in mind, in buildings that -- especially along Broome Street, Nancy, there`s lots of surveillance cameras. I`m sure they`re taking a look to see when`s the last time that he was in and out of that building. They`re also going to take a look at his cell phone. Who did he talk to? Did someone -- anyone call him?
You know, we saw a ladder being taken in by New York City emergency services right there. You know, is that to retrieve a surveillance camera or is that for some other reason? It`s very odd that if he was found that way, we`d see a ladder taken in by New York City ESU (ph).
GRACE: You know, the scene of the death, Richard Roth, CNN correspondent joining us there on Broome Street, at the site of the death of Heath Ledger -- Richard Roth, to find someone with not only over-the- counter drugs but other drugs, prescription drugs, around him, as well? I mean, to take that many pills? The family`s insisting this is an accident. What other facts do we know regarding the drugs around Ledger?
ROTH: I wish I could help you on that one. It may be a little too early for them to reveal exactly what kind of drugs. I mean, they are insisting Ledger was found naked at the foot of the bed, face down, in the bedroom. And the police department spokesman saying no sign of violence. And it`s going to be up to the medical examiner to determine exactly what happened.
I mean, look, you can -- you know, pills are taken by many people. We`ve had Hollywood stars who have died, indeed, of drug overdoses. We had Marilyn Monroe, and 50, 60 years later, people are still disputing exactly the cause of death determined by the police that it was a drug overdose.
GRACE: You know, Marilyn Monroe, one of the first that I can just name off the top of my head. There is Anna Nicole, who we recently covered, the brouhaha surrounding her death, Marilyn Monroe, as you pointed out, Chris Farley, Chris Farley dying of an overdose, Brad Renfro, suspected overdose involved in his death, River Phoenix, John Belushi -- of course, John Belushi -- well, of course, Elvis Presley, and Janice Joplin, you can go on, Jimi Hendrix. The list goes on and on.
But a legal question. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Ray Giudice, Joe Lawless joining us, Ray out of Atlanta, Lawless out of Philadelphia. Ray Giudice, in the death of Belushi, there was a lot of talk that the woman who administered the drugs to Belushi would be charged. It never happened, but we can`t rule out that scenario with Ledger.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, we need to find out who those drugs were prescribed to, who had been in that apartment in, let`s say, the 24 hours prior to the masseuse and the caretaker coming in. So let`s find out who he was with, what the prescription medications were, and who were they prescribed to before we jump the gun on this. I think there`s a lot of quick talk and quick conclusions here.
GRACE: Joe Lawless, what would the legal liability be of someone that was partying with him, someone that was with him at the time, possibly, that he took the prescription drugs? I mean, is there any legal liability? It didn`t happen in Belushi`s case.
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, if someone gives him drugs under circumstances where it`s clear he shouldn`t be taking them, obviously, there can be liability. But I think one thing we have to look at -- every name you rattled off, starting with Marilyn and ending with Chris Farley, had a history of drug or alcohol problems. We don`t know that about Heath Ledger. It`s just as possible he had an allergic reaction to something. We just don`t know what caused his death. And to say it`s an overdose at this point is way, way premature.
GRACE: You know, I`m very surprised they`re even ruling out foul play...
LAWLESS: Sure.
GRACE: ... because, for instance, if there had been a manual or ligature strangulation of any type, you have to look very carefully at the neck. There are a million scenarios unfolding as we speak. Right now, Ledger`s family insisting this was an accident.
To Tom O`Neil, senior editor at "In Touch Weekly." Tom, Can you tell us any more about the drugs allegedly around Ledger`s body?
O`NEIL: Yes. First of all, let`s paint the scene. Last week, he was in Australia. This past weekend, he was in London shooting a new movie. He got back to New York yesterday. He was exhausted. There are reports, unconfirmed, that he may have had pneumonia.
Now, here`s the tell-tale clue that I think pulls this together. In November, he gave an interview to "The New York Times" in which he talked about his sleeping problem and that he was so haunted by playing this role of the Joker that he took an Ambien the previous night. It didn`t work. I took another one. It only worked for an hour, and I was up again.
This was -- you know, he`s actually talking openly just a few months ago about his insomnia and taking sleeping pills, prescription, with "The New York Times." It sounds, Nancy, like he got off that plane and was so desperate for sleep that he had his Ambien and he bought stuff at the local drugstore and just went too far.
GRACE: To Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. Koby (ph), weigh in.
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, you know, we don`t know his state of mind. We know that it doesn`t appear to be foul play, but on the other hand, we can`t rule anything out. And as we`ve hear just a few minutes ago, it`s quite possible not only were the drugs that were found around his body involved, but he may have had drugs in his system, other kind of drugs that acted synergistically or in combination with those other drugs.
So I think, ultimately, you`re absolutely right. You`ve got to have the autopsy. You`ve got to have the tox report. And only then will they be able to tell cause of death. Now, manner of death is not a story -- accident, suicide or even homicide. That is going to be decided after all the facts come out, especially the tox report.
GRACE: You`re seeing video from "Brokeback Mountain" from Focus Features right now. This catapulted him, Keith Ledger, into a whole `nother league of stardom.
Out to the lines. Sarah in Canada. Hi, Sarah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on your babies.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also, I really love that -- I think it was a malachite necklace you had on yesterday.
GRACE: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, does Hollywood have any coping mechanism for these young Hollywood stars and singers that clearly need help? Do they have on-set psychotherapy or anything like that? And can they be held accountable when these stars snap?
GRACE: What about it, Pat Saunders?
SAUNDERS: They don`t, and they really should. Legally, I don`t know if they can be held accountable, but these folks need help.
GRACE: Yes, I find -- Ray Giudice, Joe Lawless -- to hold the movie, the film producers liable, it`s not going to hold up. There`s no clear nexus...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: They need treatment.
LAWLESS: It would be a big reach. but one would think there were enough in that business that have had drug and alcohol problems that they`d know where to point these kids that have the problems, AA, Narcotics Anonymous, something like that. The help is there, if they want it.
GRACE: Agree, Ray?
GIUDICE: Yes, I do. And you know, you might want to look at, like, the NBA, that really mentors their young people to prevent them from getting into drug problems. Perhaps Hollywood ought to form something like that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it starting to feel different that you`re in two fantastic films this year and getting a lot of Oscar buzz?
HEATH LEDGER, ACTOR: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you thought about it?
LEDGER: Obviously, yes. You can`t help but think about it, with people ramming it down your throat. You know? And it`s obviously -- you know, I`m really grateful for it. It`s an honor to kind of be a part of films that are well received. On the flip side of that, you know, my personal life completely outweighs any hype that`s in my professional life. And therefore, it helps me to keep perspective on it and stay suspicious of it. You know, flattery, I believe, is just as destructive and -- as criticism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Superstar Heath Ledger found dead in an exclusive Soho apartment. He was found naked, laying face down on the bed, strewn around him prescription and over-the-counter drugs, according to sources.
Out to the lines. Dane in Arizona. Hi, Dane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just wondering, how many pills were actually taken at the time? And does he have a history of taking a large amount of pills at one time? Because I know it`s common for people to take the wrong drugs and just simply die because they don`t mix well.
GRACE: Excellent question. Richard Roth, what do we know? Any bead on what the prescription and over-the-counter drugs were?
ROTH: I know we`re hungry for information, but it`s too early to tell. We don`t have access. They`re not revealing that kind of information. I can tell you that this whole scene reminds me of the John F. Kennedy, Jr., death, lower Manhattan on North More (ph) Street, with the crowds gathering. And now we have in front of the building where Heath Ledger lived a magazine with his picture on it and flowers placed there by a young woman, the start of some kind of memorial to honor Heath Ledger, 28.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At 3:30, his housekeeper walked into the bedroom and they said prescription pills were found near his body. When he was found, the fire department was called first and they responded first and then the police department came after. When the paramedics responded, he was in full cardiac arrest. They tried to do CPR on him, but they were not successful and they pronounced him dead right on the scene.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Twenty-eight-year-old Hollywood superstar Heath Ledger dead in a Soho apartment, leaving behind 2-year-old daughter Matilda, Ledger found at the foot of his bed, face down, surrounded by prescription and over-the- counter drugs.
Out to the lines. Bethany in Pennsylvania. Hi, Bethany.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s great to get a hold of you.
GRACE: Thank you for calling. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just curious as to whether or not anyone has heard from Heath`s ex-fiancee, Michelle Williams, and how she and their 2-year-old daughter are reacting to this tragic situation.
GRACE: Tom O`Neil?
O`NEIL: Well, no one has publicly asked her, of course. The reason he lived in Soho was to be right across the river from Brooklyn, where Michelle and Matilda lived. And just in the past few weeks, he was seen walking Matilda (INAUDIBLE) 2 years old, around the lower streets of Manhattan, obviously very happy to be with her.
GRACE: To Mike in Mississippi. Hi, Mike.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. Congratulations on your babies.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Glad you`re back.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, when he was found, was there anybody there that tried to revive him or was it...
GRACE: Good question. Richard Roth, did the housekeeper try to revive him, or the masseuse?
ROTH: I believe so, and the police say they found him unresponsive. Police say they found him unresponsive. That`s what happened. He had this appointment for a masseuse appointment, and he was naked, wearing no clothes, at the foot of the bed, and they just could not revive him.
GRACE: Richard Roth, CNN senior correspondent joining us there in Soho.
When we come back: The family of fugitive Marine Cesar Laurean says he`s alive and well in Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN MEXICO CITY BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): We`re in the city of Guadalajara where Laurean`s family originally was from. We just spoke to a young man by the name of Juan Antonio Ramos who it says he is a cousin of Cesar Laurean. And he told us that his cousin visited him here in Guadalajara just about one week ago.
(On camera) Have you been in touch with your cousin lately?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes. The other day.
WHITBECK: He called you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, he stopped by.
WHITBECK: Cesar Armando? The one who lives in the United States. He came to see you here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, just a few days ago. Last week.
WHITBECK: Is this he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, this is he.
WHITBECK (voice over): We asked him if at the time he knew of the charges that have been levied against his cousin, and he said no. Shortly after that visit, he saw the news on CNN that his cousin was being looked for.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Bombshell developments in the death of Corporal Maria Lauterbach. Now a credible witness states the fugitive Marine Cesar Laurean in Mexico at a Guadalajara liquor store.
Out to Harris Whitbeck, CNN Mexico City bureau chief joining us in Mexico.
Harris, thank you for being with us. What`s the latest?
WHITBECK: Well, Nancy, people are kind of reeling at the news today that a cousin of Corporal Laurean actually confirmed having seen him last week. We spoke to Mexican law enforcement authorities just a while ago and asked them if they were launching any special investigations.
They were asking us for information. They said that they had no information as to the whereabouts of this individual and they also reiterated that the federal law enforcement agency in Mexico had not received an official request of help from the U.S., which contradicts what the U.S. embassy has been telling us here in that U.S. and Mexican law are working together trying to find this individual.
GRACE: So Harris, who do we believe, the Mexican authorities or the U.S. authorities?
WHITBECK: Well, all I can tell you is that the family members we spoke to today told us we were the first people who had approached them about this. They have said that nobody has spoken to them since all this came to light. Nobody has asked them for information. They haven`t been asked to give any sort of declarations. So I don`t know.
I do know that the U.S. consulate in Guadalajara has a legal attach' office here. The U.S. embassy in Mexico City has been -- told us that they are active. And as you know, the FBI did launch a Spanish language version of it`s wanted poster.
GRACE: A flier.
WHITBECK: .on its Web site here.
GRACE: Harris, it`s a flyer. They sent out a flier.
WHITBECK: It`s a flier. It`s a.
GRACE: Are you telling me that the family.
WHITBECK: It`s not -- and it`s not.
GRACE: The family says you guys were the first ones to approach them about a sighting of the fugitive Marine wanted for rape and murder. You guys are the first ones to speak to them?
WHITBECK: That`s correct, Nancy. That`s what they told us. We spent two or three days working on this -- producer Mirea Lopez(ph) from our bureau in Mexico City first approached this by trying to get a copy of his birth certificate. She was able to do that quite easy here in Guadalajara. She went to the city hall, asked for a copy of his birthday certificate with his name, last names, add the information from FBI Web site, and with that birthday certificate, we were able to find the addresses that eventually led us to this liquor store. It`s not rocket science.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, can they screw the case up any more than they already have? The woman makes a rape claim. Real or not, he should have been the prime suspect at that juncture. They do nothing. I`m talking about the Onslow sheriffs, I`m talking about the Marines. You know what? Deal with it, Marine Corps.
Now, here we`ve got a CNN correspondent down there in Guadalajara, Harris Whitbeck, the Mexico City bureau chief, they`re the first people to speak to the guy that cites the defendant, the suspect there.
What else do they have to do? Should they just give him a first-class ticket to Europe?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. D.C. POLICE DETECTIVE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Really, Nancy, first of all, I think we should swear Harris in and give him a gun and a badge and let him continue his investigation. He seems to be the only one doing anything.
Look, you know, we know the wheels of the criminal justice system here in the United States move slowly and slower in Mexico, but come on, you`ve got the FBI involved in this. And Nancy, when you have an international investigation like this, even though it`s right across our border, the main law enforcement agency that deals directly with the Mexicans, The Federalist, is the United States Department of State Bureau of Diplomatic Security.
So those are the ones who are working with the FBI and the Federalist.
GRACE: You know, to Giudice and Lawless.
Ray Giudice, have you ever -- you probably drive a Jaguar or Mercedes. But have you ever taken a Greyhound bus, Ray? Just yes-no.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I have.
GRACE: That`s a yes-no question.
GIUDICE: Nancy, I rode the dog.
GRACE: Has -- is there any slower way, Joe Lawless, to get across the country?
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No.
GRACE: The guy goes over 1,000 miles from North Carolina to Mexico. Nobody catches him.
LAWLESS: But it`s a perfect -- Nancy, it`s a perfect way to get lost because nobody is going to look there. He`s one of 60 people on a bus. Nobody`s going to stop him. It`s not like he`s in an airport terminal where there is a camera.
GRACE: Lawless, Lawless, just -- I told them on national TV a week ago. Hello? The guy is in Mexico. Run, run, run like a young gazelle, FBI and local law enforcement. Catch the guy. What did they do? He turns up at a liquor store in Guadalajara and nobody has spoken to the witness.
We`ve got with us in Mexico Harris Whitbeck but take a listen to the cousin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK (on camera): Have you been in touch with your cousin lately?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, the other day.
WHITBECK: He called you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, he stopped by.
WHITBECK: Cesar Armando? The one who lives in the United States came to see you here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, just a few days ago, last week.
WHITBECK: And what did he tell you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Just, "Hi, I`m passing by." He told me he was here with some buddies for a few days and you know? It`s not the first time he`s come by to visit, say hi to the family.
WHITBECK: Is this he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, it is he.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Oh, yes. We`re going to catch the terrorists. We can`t catch one guy on a Greyhound bus that goes 1,000 miles. We have to talk to his cousin. CNN finds the cousin at a liquor store.
Out to Susan Candiotti on another front, CNN national correspondent.
Susan Candiotti, what about the other developments in the case? Give me some good news, Susan?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, well, can I just finish up with a little bit about the previous news?
GRACE: Yes.
CANDIOTTI: I did talk to the FBI and I asked them, "OK, we found the cousin. What do you think? Is this the confirmation that you already -- you said you strongly suspect but haven`t confirmed? Is this confirmation?" And I was told that -- I cannot confirm, according to the spokesperson, it is -- what the cousin told you, well, obviously, because they didn`t talk to them, but it is consistent with the FBI`s believe that he is probably in Mexico. And then I -- he went on to say that it`s an important piece of the puzzle, but that they`re not in a position to confirm what the cousin said is true.
And I cannot tell you, the spokesman said, who we have spoken with, that we`re working with Mexican authorities, but I can`t tell you whether we have spoken to any relatives.
GRACE: Well, I can tell you this much. It`s not the cousin that Whitbeck spoke to.
What did -- I say good news, Susan Candiotti. What more do we know about the investigation?
CANDIOTTI: Well, we have confirmed that Cesar Laurean sent to his wife four letters. We knew about the letter that he left behind. We`ve learned that he sent another letter from Raleigh-Durham, post-marked Raleigh-Durham on Friday after he left his wife. Then we learn now today and confirm that he sent two more letters to his wife once he got to Houston. Now we have more information about the letters, but I`ll get back to that in a moment.
First, let`s give you the route. We understand that he went from Raleigh to Houston and that the FBI tells me that they do have confirmation evidence that he got to that bus station in Houston but a law enforcement source will not reveal what that information is. We know that from Houston, he got on a bus from a company called the Tornado Bus Company, paid about $170 for that ticket, and went from there to a town called San Luis, what`s this, San Luis Potispo, and then from there he went on to Guadalajara.
I`m told that during the bus ride that he chatted up the bus driver and he gave a name not his own. The name he gave was Armando Ramirez, which happens to be a brand new alias that the FBI released to us this day.
We don`t know exactly how long it took for him to make this very long journey. By our calculation, it`s about 2400 miles at least from Raleigh all the way to Guadalajara.
GRACE: Susan, you said he used Armando Ramirez?
CANDIOTTI: Yes.
GRACE: Well, OK, the FBI at the get-go said three aliases: Godino Sanchez and Cesar Armando Ramirez. It`s not that far of a stretch. The guy is practically waving a red flag on the back of the bus, saying, "Look at me. I`m the rape and murder suspect. Somebody arrest me."
Very quickly, everyone, tonight, APB, all points bulletin, special moms and dads, if you know a parent who`s an inspiration to others, get your camcorder. Go to CNN.com/Nancygrace, click on "i-Reports," enter that parent in the "Extraordinary Parent Contest."
And P.S., we just posted new photos of the twins, Lucy and John David, on the show Web site, Baby Blog. I hope you like them.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suspected killer`s name is Marine Corporal Cesar Laurean. According to the FBI last week, they believe that he had possibly fled to Mexico because he had family there. Of course, he is charged in the murder and death -- and the murder of Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach, who is eight months pregnant, and there was a situation going on there with the Marines.
But again, according to Harris Whitbeck, a family member says he saw him in Mexico in the Guadalajara area just about one week ago.
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GRACE: Bombshell developments in the case of Marine Corporal Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child. Both found dead in the backyard of the prime suspect, this man, Cesar Laurean, now spotted as a Guadalajara liquor store.
Out to the lines, Mari in Texas. Hi, Mari.
MARI, FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. Welcome back.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
MARI: I have a question. Is it possible -- I was looking at the liquor store on the TV and is it possible that maybe they have some kind of surveillance?
GRACE: Harris Whitbeck, CNN Mexico City bureau chief, what do we know about possible surveillance video?
WHITBECK: None whatsoever. The liquor stores in that part of town are very, very basic. We didn`t see anything that looked like surveillance video. And liquor stores here in Mexico are not like those in the States. They`re not as regulated as they are in the States. And there would be no need for surveillance cameras to be around. We certainly didn`t see any and I`d have no reason to think there would be any there.
GRACE: Aileen in North Carolina. Hi, Aileen.
ILENE, FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on your baby.
GRACE: Thank you.
ILENE: I just have a comment about the Lauterbach`s family. I just have a problem with her mama calling her a bipolar and a compulsive liar. And I just wondered why nobody has ever mentioned her daddy. I wondered if he was deceased or where he fits in the picture. I just wonder why he was -- he`s never mentioned.
GRACE: I know the parents are still married. I know that the father is in the military. I also, Ilene, have not heard anything about the father, but I did read on a recent interview with the mom that she actually call-screened her daughter`s phone calls. I don`t know if she was getting a barrage of the phone calls, that the girl was sad or depressed in her new position in the Marines. That`s a big mystery, but she definitely told police, she -- that Maria Lauterbach was a compulsive liar or an occasional compulsive liar and had bipolarism in her family history.
Why, Pat Saunders? Why would you as a mom state that? It almost snake-bit the investigation from the beginning.
PAT SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think the way it was -- it wound up getting reported was not what the mom actually said. There`s this statement today where she said it was exaggerated. But it`s almost like blaming the victim, even if she said less. Why bring up that her daughter has got credibility problems? Why bring up that she`s got psychiatric problems when she was raped and killed?
GRACE: Also with us, Lori Mack, North Carolina correspondent with Westwood One Metro Networks.
Lori Mack, what more can you tell us about the developments in the investigation?
LORI MACK, N.C. CORRESPONDENT, WESTWOOD ONE METRO NETWORKS: Well, the Onslow County Sheriff`s Department released today that they`re testing a shoe that they found outside of Laurean`s home. They say the shoe matches one that they had already found inside the garage where they believe Maria Lauterbach was killed.
Now they`re testing the shoe because there`s a substance on the sole that they believe is blood. They`re not sure but they`re testing the shoe to see if that substance is blood.
GRACE: Back out to the lines. Dorothy in Georgia. Hi, Dorothy.
DOROTHY, FROM GEORGIA: Hi, how are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s the question?
DOROTHY: I want to know, because of the accusations that the Marine`s mother made against her, that the Marines had no intentions of charging this man with murder and let things get this far gone. They were just going to sweep it under the rug, but he knew once the baby was born it could possibly be his, that he might have allegedly killed her. And the Marines -- it looks to me like the Marines or no one has really done anything to really catch this man.
GRACE: You know, Mike Brooks, I got to agree with Dorothy in that you`ve got a rape suspect, and you`ve got the alleged victim, but you`re still putting them together in the workplace.
What kind of a protective order is that? What did they really do to protect this girl? I`m hearing a lot of finger-pointing but no real answers.
BROOKS: No, Nancy, they said early on, apparently they`ve separated, they`re put on the other side of the base. So they weren`t working together. And this protective order had gone -- was gone through, you know, the first of the year. So you know, I think they took the precautions they had to take on the information they had to go on.
GRACE: Well, some lukewarm precautions, letting the TPO, protective order, lapse, putting them together essentially at various functions and meetings in the workplace, not making an arrest, either arrest him or bringing him in for questioning one way or the other.
Susan Candiotti, another development in the case are these continued letters to his wife, a lot of them speaking to the daughter as my understanding. But what more do you know about the content of these letters? What do they reveal?
CANDIOTTI: Well, a source told me that in each of the letters, Laurean tells his wife, not surprisingly, perhaps that he loves her very much, that he cares very deeply about their daughter, and in fact, in one letter the source tells me that he even addresses his daughter directly.
Also according to the source, he says kind of good-bye, farewell to his wife, yet, according to the source, he seems to think that he hopes that they`ll be able to get together again some day. Now whether that means eventually he`ll be arrested and that`s how he`ll see her or he`ll give himself up or they`ll capture him, and that`s how they get him back. Who knows?
GRACE: To Dr. Kent Harshbarger, medical examiner, joining us tonight out of Dayton, Ohio.
Doctor, the body of Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child has finally been turned over to the family. It was quite a delay. Why?
DR. KENT E. HARSHBARGER, MEDICAL EXAMINER AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Don`t really know why except for different systems have different timelines of how they`re going to process the body. This is a complicated case. The body is burned, the body`s buried. There`s going to be a lot of experts working on this case, trace evidence people, fingerprints people, DNA experts, ballistics people, I mean, tool mark examiner. So there`s a lot of work being done on this case to figure out what happen here.
GRACE: I agree.
To Paula in New York. Hi, Paula.
PAULA, FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy. My question is for the cousin in the liquor store.
GRACE: Yes.
PAULA: Did he happen to notice what vehicle, if any, or what direction this guy went in when he left the store?
GRACE: Good question. Back to Mexico City bureau chief Harris Whitbeck. What can you tell us about the cousin`s observations, Harris?
WHITBECK: Nancy, all he said was that the cousin was accompanied by three or four other individuals who Laurean identified as buddies of his. He said that he was not able to see their faces because they were kind of facing the street, giving them -- giving him their backs. He said that (INAUDIBLE).
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GRACE: To "HEADLINE PRIME`s" Glenn Beck. Hi, friend.
GLENN BECK, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it was a big day on Wall Street with the Feds cutting the interest rate even before trade began.
Is that good for the economy as a whole? And what are you supposed to do about it?
I`ll tell you in just a bit.
Then the "New York Times" had front-page news today, the front-page news on this program months ago. I guess there`s trouble at the border with Mexico? Better late than never, "New York Times." Details are ahead.
And former president Bill Clinton took a nap on TV, seated behind Martin Luther King III on Martin Luther King Day. It`s satisfying.
GRACE: Welcome back to the prime suspect in the death of Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child, now spotted at a liquor store.
CNN`s correspondent beat the FBI there apparently. And now images from an ATM of the victim the day she was killed have emerged.
Susan Candiotti, what light can you shed on these surveillance video shots?
CANDIOTTI: Well, what`s particularly chilling about them, certainly, is that these appear to be the very last time that we see that young woman alive. December 14th, she is withdrawing money from an ATM, and that is the very same day, according to police, they believe that she was killed, suspected to have been killed by Cesar Laurean.
But she left there and went over to his house after that, police believe, and that is when they say that he killed her, that he apparently bludgeoned her with a blunt instrument and then buried her in his backyard.
GRACE: Susan Candiotti joining us along with Lori Mack, North Carolina correspondent with Westwood One Metro Networks. And thank you to Harris Whitbeck.
Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Louis Griese, 30, Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, killed Iraq, on a third tour, also served in Hawaii and Korea. Awarded the bronze star and Purple Heart, dreamed of a military career, loved restoring cars. The WWE and movies, his favorite "The Halloween" series. Leaves behind grieving parents, Susan and Jim, five sisters, four brothers.
Louis Griese, American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for inviting all of us into your home. And good night, tonight, from a special friend of the show, Chris from Georgia.
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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