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Recession Fears: Stock Market Jitters; What Killed Heath Ledger?; Mission: Pakistan? Pentagon Reviews Training Plan

Aired January 23, 2008 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people expect us to be -- expect America to be treated fairly, and that's what these trade agreements do. It certainly doesn't make any sense to say in a country like Colombia, your goods can come in our way, but our goods can't come your way, and being treated the same way.

And by opening up markets, by having us treated fairly, we'll have a hundred million new customers. And I like that opportunity for American workers and farmers and business people. See, I believe we can compete with anybody anywhere, so long as the rules are fair. And so these mayors who are living, you know, close to the people understand that by opening up markets, businesses in their communities and workers in their communities will benefit.

And I want to thank you all for coming. We had a good opportunity to get the deal done, and I'm looking forward to working with Congress to get these packages passed. These are pro-growth and they're good for America.

And thanks for giving Secretary Gutierrez and me a chance to visit with you.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The president meeting with the U.S. Conference of Mayors. He's there in Washington, D.C., in the Roosevelt Room, talking about the economic uncertainty that we've all been experiencing. We've seen the numbers, of course, on Wall Street.

He's once again saying that he's trying to work with Congress to pass that stimulus package, hopefully keeping us out of a recession. Putting a halt to the mortgage crisis right now and giving us all more confidence about our 401(k)s and our investments.

We'll follow his talks there with the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

Well, it's a question heard all over the world today -- can anybody keep America out of a recession? One day after the Federal Reserve slashed a key interest rate, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson met with congressional leaders this morning to hammer out a stimulus package. Asian investors appear somewhat optimistic; investors in Europe and America do not.

Let's begin our coverage now with Susan Lisovicz, live at the New York Stock Exchange.

How are things looking there, Susan? We just heard from the president there, meeting with the U.S. Conference of Mayors, talking about that economic uncertainty, hoping to convince Congress to pass a stimulus package.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, everybody is talking about the economy, that's for sure. And you know, that's one of the points I wanted to mention in this update, Kyra, because we heard from the Congressional Budget Office today, and it says that after three years of declining budget deficits, a slowing economy will contribute to an increase in the deficit. What it's projecting, as you can see, is a $250 billion deficit.

The good news here, it doesn't see a recession, although it says the odds are increased. And why will a slowdown contribute to a deficit? Well, the slowdown in spending which would contribute to a slowing in the GDP.

And, of course, oil prices are still very high. That exacerbates it as well. So, it doesn't project a recession, but says that it will contribute to an increased budget deficit.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll keep tracking it.

Susan Lisovicz, live from the New York Stock Exchange.

Appreciate it.

LISOVICZ: Thank you.

LEMON: Asian stock markets were calmer today, but European stock prices fell amid continued concern about the U.S. economy.

Let's take a quick look around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On this gloomy wet day in Tokyo, there is some brighter news out of the Nikkei.

I'm Kyung Lah in downtown Tokyo, where the markets have closed in the positive category, up 267 points. This is all a reaction to the U.S. federal interest rate cut from yesterday.

There is deep concern here on the streets of Tokyo that this is a Band-Aid and that the real issues have not been addressed. Consumers and investors are feeling jittery, they are feeling nervous. And even though today was a better day, there is some concern over what the next trading day will hold.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Tokyo.

JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Will they or won't they? That is the question here in Europe. Will the European Central Bank and the Bank of England here in London actually cut rates?

We had the U.S. Federal Reserve do that on Tuesday, but these banks did not follow. Many people predict the Bank of England will cut rates again next month, which will help homeowners here as the price of their mortgages should fall as well. But until a few months ago, it looked like the European Central Bank might actually raise rates, and that's because in many countries in Europe and here in the U.K., inflation is too high and that is worrying the banks.

But if the cut in the U.S. Federal Reserve rate shows that we may be getting into a global recession, then the banks here might have to follow suit to help try to kick-start these economies even if inflation is still too high.

Jim Boulden, CNN, London.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is red across the board here today in China, but that is, in fact, a good thing, because the red means that all of these shares closed up.

And the Shanghai Composite finished the day up just over 3 percent, but still way down after two days of big losses. And unlike previous falls, so far there has been no big bounce back, no big recovery.

And one of the big reasons for that, analysts say, is there is still this uncertainty about the future of the U.S. economy, whether or not it will avoid recession. And if it does slip into recession, what will be the impact here?

John Vause, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is trying to reassure world leaders. Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland today, Rice declared that the United States will continue to be, in her words, an engine of growth.

And make sure you stick with CNN for all of the news that affects your financial security, and go to cnnmoney.com for more on money, jobs, and the mortgage crisis.

PHILLIPS: Adored by fans, respected by peers, mourned by all, actor Heath Ledger dead at 28, and we still don't know how. Right now the investigation goes on, the reaction pours in.

Our Allan Chernoff is outside Ledger's New York City apartment, and Brooke Anderson is at the Sundance Film Festival. Prescription drugs were found in Ledger's apartment, but we don't know whether they had anything to do with his death. In any case, the White House has postponed a scheduled appearance by President Bush promoting an anti-drug campaign. They say they don't want to appear opportunistic in highlighting that issue.

Let's get the latest now on Ledger and the investigation from Allan Chernoff, in Manhattan, where the sidewalk outside Ledger's home is pretty much a makeshift memorial right now.

Hi, Allan.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, indeed, that memorial is growing by the hour. When we were here before dawn, there were maybe about six flowers here, and now you can see probably maybe three dozen or so.

And there are notes beneath those flowers. I haven't picked any up, but I did read some of the notes earlier today. Let me just share one with you.

"It's so sad when someone so talented and so young dies way before their time. May you rest in peace, Heath."

And so many of these notes written by people who simply have no idea who this person was except from what they have seen on the movie. They don't really know him, they haven't met him personally, but they were very much touched. And you can see the response over here, and this pile has just been growing and growing.

Now, let's talk a little bit about where we stand with regard to the investigation, because the New York medical examiner has said that the autopsy done this morning is inconclusive. So now the medical examiner is saying they need to do a toxicology investigation and they also need to look at the tissues, do tissue investigation.

That may be sent out to laboratories. It could take as long as two more weeks to learn the results of all of that.

So right now, the death remains a mystery. And it clearly is just baffling.

The police were in there yesterday when they found the actor in his bed, dead. But they really didn't see anything suspicious other than the actual corpse.

There were medicines in the apartment, as you said, but they were all prescription medicines, that Mr. Ledger actually had received prescriptions from a doctor. There were no illegal drugs, no alcohol, so they are really wondering what happened here. There was speculation that perhaps it was an accidental overdose, but we just don't know yet -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll keep following the investigation.

Allan Chernoff, appreciate it. LEMON: Not only did Ledger have movie star looks, but he also had the acting chops to back them up. Not even 30, he already had an impressive resume, an Oscar nomination, and the respect of his follow actors.

Our Brooke Anderson talked to some of them. She's at the Sundance Film Festival in Utah.

I'm sure to them, quite a surprise, and a sad day for them as well.

BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. A very sad day. Everyone is so downcast here at the Sundance Film Festival, Don.

We spoke with Jacqueline Bisset, Stanley Tucci, Patricia Clarkson, among others. And they expressed extreme sadness that someone with such potential would die so young.

They only had very kind things to say about Heath Ledger, and, you know, the sun may have come out here in Park City, but it really seems like there is a dark cloud hanging over the heads of festival- goers here.

I caught up with some attendees a little bit earlier and they shared their thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt terrible. He was such a talented actor and did so well, had so much going on. And it's just so sad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really think it's a great loss. It's really a great loss.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a tragedy. I think it's really too bad. I don't know if it was an overdose or it was just something else, but he had such a great career. It's just a real shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And the reaction from celebrities is pouring in. Mel Gibson, who played Heath's father in "The Patriot," told us, "I had such great hope for him. He was just taking off. And to lose his life at such a young age is a tragic loss."

Nicole Kidman, a fellow Aussie, told us, "What a tragedy. My heart goes out to his family."

Don, so many people heartsick today over the death of Heath Ledger.

LEMON: Yes. And you can understand why now.

We know, Brooke, "Batman," the movie, done filming, right? It comes out this summer. But wasn't he in London recently with director Terry Gilliam? Were they shooting a movie there? What happens to that movie?

ANDERSON: They certainly were. Even this past -- just this past weekend, he was photographed filming "The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus." And we have reached out to those involved with that production. We're waiting to hear back to check on the status, where that production stood, and the future of the film.

But right now, it is unclear. But as you said, his film, "The Dark Knight," where he plays the demonic joker, this guy -- this character really is a psychopath. That movie will be out this summer.

LEMON: Oh boy. It's going to be really odd -- I'm not sure what the reaction is going to be, Brooke. If it's going to help or hurt the movie, but it's going to be odd to see him in that, knowing that he passed in such a tragic way.

OK.

ANDERSON: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you so much for that report from the Sundance Film Festival in Utah.

And for a look back at Heath Ledger's life, check out CNN.com's special report. Share your thoughts on the actor, and you can send or view I-Reports from across the world.

All that at CNN.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

LEMON: Well, the most wanted man in the world is believed to be in Pakistan. So how many U.S. or other western troops are in Pakistan now? Zero. Military leaders are planning for a day when that might change, of course.

And CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CNN has learned U.S. military commanders are reviewing a classified planning order which could result in hundreds of U.S. troops going to Pakistan to train security forces, but only if the Pakistanis buy the idea. President Pervez Musharraf has said his troops will be the ones to fight the Taliban and al Qaeda, but last week Taliban fighters overran a Pakistani fort. There is worry Pakistani forces are failing against the growing extremist threat.

ADM. MIKE MULLEN, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: That continues to be a grave concern to us both in the near term and the long term.

STARR: For the U.S., the job now is to get an agreement to train Pakistani forces who encounter insurgency warfare. FREDERICK BARTON, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC & INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: The presence of U.S. forces in Pakistan would be hugely inflammatory for the rest of the country and probably would destabilize Pakistan in a more serious way than it is right now. So, clearly, training is the best thing we can do.

STARR: Why now? The assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto has destabilized the country. Al Qaeda now operates in many major cities.

ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think that the Pakistani government, frankly, is dealing with the emergence of a threat inside Pakistan that it has not confronted until very recently, and it's not a surprise to me that they are having some challenges in trying to deal with that.

STARR: The planning order, should Pakistan give the OK, is part of a five-year, $750 million security and economic effort. Still, the Pentagon is treading lightly before sending U.S. troops to a place they are not likely to be widely welcomed.

GEN. JAMES CARTWRIGHT, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS VICE CHAIRMAN: We are trying to make sure we understand ground truth before we take any action.

STARR (on camera): The U.S. and Pakistan have trained together before, but this is much more comprehensive. If Pakistan will not accept U.S. military trainers, then the Pentagon may propose instead sending contractors or even NATO allies such as British troops to take on the job.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: It's a different kind of class reunion when a student and her teacher reconnect after 35 years. We're going to educate you on this sweetheart of a story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This just in to the CNN NEWSROOM. A lot of things floating around there about the death of 28-year-old actor Heath Ledger. Some of them true, some of them not. Some have been confirmed, some have not.

Just moments ago, Ray Kelly, who is the police commissioner in New York City, held a press conference, and here's what he had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAY KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: OK. Questions?

QUESTION: Commissioner, can you update us on the latest regarding the actor's death (INAUDIBLE)? And what do you know, sir? KELLY: The medical examiner said today there was no criminality. Of course, he'd have to wait for the toxicology report. That could be as long as 10 days.

There was some issue about a $20 bill that was found. There was a rolled up $20 found. No testing of that bill has been done as yet.

QUESTION: Were narcotics found on...

KELLY: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: Were narcotics found on...

KELLY: I said no testing has been done on the bill.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

KELLY: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: Was the $20 bill retrieved for testing (OFF-MIKE)?

KELLY: It hasn't been tested as of yet. That's something they are looking at, yes.

There was another issue as to whether or not there were any illegal drugs found. That's not the case. There were no illegal drugs found.

Prescription bottles, and all of the pills were in the bottles. There was some report that they were strewn. That's not the case. The bottles were capped.

QUESTION: Which drugs?

KELLY: We're not going to go into the specifics of that.

QUESTION: What does it appear to be?

KELLY: Well, I'm not going to make any judgment until the medical examiner makes a final report. Right now he says there is no criminality. We're going to see what the toxicology report says.

QUESTION: Accidental overdose?

KELLY: I am not going to go to come to a conclusion as yet. We'll wait for the medical examiner's report.

QUESTION: Can you describe the disposition of the body and what was found when they went in?

KELLY: The disposition of the body -- he was laying in bed face down.

QUESTION: Was there any visible residue on that dollar bill?

KELLY: Again, we are not going to make a statement about the $20 bill until a test has been conducted.

QUESTION: How long will that take?

KELLY: Oh, a day.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

KELLY: Not to my knowledge, no.

QUESTION: Sir, there have been some reports that in his past, drug issues and possible heroin use. Have you been advised of that? Have investigators been told about that? What do you know about his past history?

KELLY: Well, right now, we are focusing on the immediate cause of death. And again, we're going to wait for the medical examiner to make a final determination.

QUESTION: There were reports that he had pneumonia when he died.

KELLY: That he had what?

QUESTION: That he had pneumonia.

KELLY: I'm not aware of that. We did hear those reports, but I'm not -- we can't confirm that.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) without stating what they were, was it quite a large number of different types of drugs?

KELLY: Some of them were to -- sleeping pills, in essence. And some other drugs there as well. And I am not going to go into the specifics of them at this time.

QUESTION: Could you at least confirm that Valium was one of them?

KELLY: Again, I don't want to go into the specifics of it. OK? We're going to wait for the toxicology report.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly speaking to reporters there in New York City about the death and the circumstances surrounding the death of actor Heath Ledger.

One of the last things he said is that they did find some sleeping pills, and, he says, other drugs. Didn't clarify. They found other drugs as well. He really didn't go into detail about that.

But he also tried to make sense of some of the things that we have been hearing here, and here is a sort of breakdown of what he talked about.

Again, sleeping pills, other drugs. Wouldn't say exactly what they were. He said no package with unknown substances found. He said there was only prescription drugs -- at one point during the press conference he said that -- as reported. That was reported by a New York City television station.

He confirmed, though, that they did collect a $20 bill, and that they are looking into testing it. And once they have tested it, it should take about a day. Wouldn't confirm whether there was some substance on that bill, as has been reported as well.

He also said his body was found face down, face down, but in a normal style, not at the foot of the bed, that has been reported previously. Asked also in that press conference about other -- about prior drug use. He said he would not go into that. He would wait for the medical examiner to talk about that, and he is going to wait on the toxicology reports to come back before he makes any further statements on this.

New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly holding a press conference there just moments ago.

PHILLIPS: Well it sounds like the storyline from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off." But one superintendent is going door-to-door, searching for students who are skipping class.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Boats are big polluters, and by 2020 more of the acid rain pollutant sulfur dioxide will be generated by vessels at sea than all the vehicles on land. Enter Solar Sailor.

(on-camera): Passenger ferries around the world currently use close to 300 million tons of fuel oil every year. The beauty of this system is that it doesn't just use the solar panels for solar power, it also uses them as sails.

ROBERT DANE, CEO SOLAR SAILOR: The moment I knew it would work was the moment I read that insects evolved wings, initially, as solar collectors, and then used them to fly.

RIMINTON: The wings can be operated manually or by computer to maximize their efficiency as sails, even as they gather solar energy stored in batteries. There is also, on this prototype, backup power from natural gas. Contracts are signed or pending for ferries in San Francisco and Shanghai, Hong Kong and Europe with unmanned military applications also under discussion.

There remains one key problem. Solar energy input ends when the sun goes down. The next great advance will be in batteries or some new generation energy storage system to keep the vessels running hard and clean through the longest winter night.

Hugh Riminton, CNN, Sydney.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Welcome, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN World Head Quarters in Atlanta.

LEMON: And I'm Don Lemon.

We're debating a question every parent and teacher has struggled with, how to best motivate students.

PHILLIPS: Well, is money the answer? We're going to debate it right now. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

LEMON: Breaking news into the CNN NEWSROOM and it comes from our Spain bureau chief, Al Goodman. He is in Madrid, Spain.

And understand, Al, it is a terror attack that was thwarted.

AL GOODMAN, CNN MADRID BUREAU CHIEF: Indeed, judge ordered the ten suspected members of the terrorist group be held in jail. They were arrested starting last Friday, and the judge has now issued this ruling that this group, he says, planned to carry out a series of suicide attacks last weekend, that's January 18th to 20th against public transport in the city of Barcelona. That's according to a copy of one of the court orders that CNN has viewed.

The judge said that three suspected suicide bombers had come to Barcelona from Pakistan since last October. And these three year had followed on the heels of the alleged explosive expert, who had spent five months in Pakistan, had come back early last autumn, Don.

LEMON: OK. Three suicide bombers had planned the attack, you said January 18th through 20th in Barcelona, just want to make sure. And the judge, now, saying that those guys tried to do that.

GOODMAN: Indeed, and the arrest had -- January 18th was just last Friday, and the judge said that the police, of course, moved in starting late last Friday in Barcelona. They arrested 14 people, two suspects were released before the arraignment started this day. The judge released two others, but he's holding ten as the core of the suspected terrorist group and three are suspected to be -- ready to be suicide bombers. The judge also writing that the police found material that could have been made into bombs.

LEMON: OK. Al Goodman, who is our Spain bureau chief in Madrid, Spain, talking to us about a terror attack that was thwarted. Possible suicide bombings in the city Barcelona, which is a major city in Spain, and a also a very big tourist site there. We will continue to update the story.

PHILLIPS: Playing hooky is a little harder these days in the Denver suburbs. A school superintendent is going door to door in search of truant students. Besides improving education, he hopes he can cut down on crime as well. Reporter Nelson Garcia of CNN affiliate KUSA has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NELSON GARCIA, KUSA REPORTER: If you're skipping school in Aurora today, Superintendent John Barry and his staff are looking for you.

JOHN BARRY, SUPERINTENDENT AURORA PUBLIC SCHOOLS: I am Superintendent Barry of the Aurora Public Schools. And I'm trying to see if we can get our students back to school.

GARCIA: They are going the 100 homes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right I will leave this on the door then.

GARCIA: Some were empty doorways.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, next one.

GARCIA: Others give Barry some hope.

BARRY: You know, she has been absent from school quite a bit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll talk to her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Comes from family relationships...

GARCIA: It's all part of a larger effort to cut down on cutting class.

BARRY: And to know that we care about them enough that we want to invite them back.

GARCIA: Barry and police chief, Daniel Oates, are renewing efforts to keep kids in school.

CHIEF DAN OATES, AURORA COLORADO POLICE: Nearly everything that can happen to a truant during school hours is bad.

GARCIA (on-camera): The truancy problem just doesn't add up. According to Aurora Public Schools, it considers 50 percent of all high school students to be habitually truant, leading to 162 crimes committed last year during school hours, and leading to 242 arrests. No matter how you cut it, that equals big trouble.

OATES: All of this is preventable. Every single crime that is represented on this chart is preventable if the child had chosen to stay in school.

GARCIA (voice-over): That's why the former Air Force general is here. That's why students will have more access to an increased number of mentors and case managers if they need them. Barry's goal is to cut the truancy rate from 50 percent to zero, one student at a time.

BARRY: I think she was very positive about it and then she is -- a lot of them are just looking for some help sometimes.

GARCIA: One family at a time.

On the education beat, Nelson Garcia, 9 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: A study that pays in more ways than usual. Tomorrow, the school system here in Fulton County, Georgia, will announce an after school pilot program that will pay select students $8 an hour to study. Get better grades, you get a bonus. But are there pitfalls in this learn-to-earn initiative?

Robb Pitts is a Fulton County commissioner. He's joining us here, live in Atlanta. And author, Alfie Kohn, who wrote the book, "Punish By Reward" joins our discussion from Boston.

Commissioner, lets start with you. Why did you support this program?

ROBB PITTS, FULTON COUNTY, G.A. COMMISSIONER: Well, let me -- first of all this is the brain child of Speaker Newt Gingrich. He was talking about the program at the annual meeting of the Buckhead Business Coalition. And I was present. And he and I have worked on a number of projects together.

So when he mentioned this, when being a former educator myself, I was fascinated by the concept and said to him after the meeting that if this program can succeed anywhere, it will succeed in Atlanta in Fulton County. He said, let's go for it.

So, over the past six or seven months, I've been working with officials from the Fulton County School System, the Atlanta Public School System to put the program together and now, we're ready to go.

PHILLIPS: All right, and we'll talk about more about why you think this is going to work ...

PITTS: OK.

PHILLIPS: ...but I want to ask Alfie Kohn, Alfie, you know, you've written a book about how you think that making these rewards for students is actually punishment in the long run. Why are you against these sort of incentives like paying a student per hour or giving out an iPod or giving some type of gift to study?

ALFIE KOHN, "PUNISHED BY REWARDS" AUTHOR: Because they not only don't work, they make things worse than they were to begin with. It depends what your goal is, really. If the goal is to buy a behavior temporarily, like getting kids to show up somewhere or open a book, then if you throw enough goodies at them, you might be able to do that, but at significant costs.

More than 75 studies have shown that the more you reward people for doing something, the more they tend to lose interest in whatever it is they had to do to get the reward, because now the point isn't to show up at a tutoring program or read a book, be generous or whatever, the point is to get the doggie biscuit and when the reward isn't there in the future, they're actually less motivated to do it than they were to start. PHILLIPS: What do you think about that, Commissioner?

PITTS: Well, I hear that, but there will always be nay-sayers, but the undeniable facts are and I'm sure that he would agree, that we as a nation, we're losing ground to students in China and India, in particular in the areas of math and science.

KOHN: Actually, that's not true.

PITTS: If our kids are going be able to compete in a global economy going forward, we're going to have to prepare our students in math and science. Now, this target group, these are kids who are bright kids, but through no -- it's just a matter of where they live, their family situation, no fault of their own, they're in a situation, in an environment where learning has not been a priority. If we can do this, and if this works, I think it's money well spent and it's private money, not public money.

PHILLIPS: Though Commissioner -- but let me ask you, you know, I grew up with parents who are educators and I just knew I had to do well in school no matter what the situation because I wanted to go to a good college, I wanted to be able to make money and support myself and even support my parents if need be, so I never felt like I needed any sort of incentive and I went to inner city schools. I was around kids that weren't very motivated, but everybody knew they wanted to get up and they wanted to get out.

PITTS: Well, that sounds good, sitting here, look at you today. But you talked about parents, plural, and these cases, most of these are single -- being raised by single parents or grandparents. Totally different environment. Some cases, they're working at fast food operations to help the family make a living. Worst case scenario, they're doing things as bad as drugs.

So, I think that there's a lot of merit in this program, I'm convinced that it's going to work and if it works, we're getting calls from across the country, people who want to try this. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize and say this won't work, this won't work. But, in Georgia in particular ...

KOHN: Can I jump in?

PITTS: ...if we are as -- we're failing as a school system, so I'm for whatever it takes to get students motivated ...

PHILLIPS: So ...

PITTS: ...particular in the areas of science and math.

PHILLIPS: Well, and Alfie, let's talk about the motivation. I mean, that's an interesting point, right? If you come from a family that doesn't have a lot of money -- getting a little extra cash to do well could be a good incentive and they may say, OK, I work hard, I earn money, that's what we do once we get into the working world anyway, right? KOHN: Again, it depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to want kids to want to learn, to be interested in say math and science and reading for their own sakes, then the last thing you do, according to the research, is to dangle goodies in front of them, because when the goodies aren't there, they're less interested. For example ...

PHILLIPS: So how do you motivate? OK, give an example.

KOHN: You've got -- I mean, there's a good history of real world programs that inner cities that work with students rather than doing things to them to improve the educational program so that it's engaging and meaning and relevant rather than bribing them to show up for the same traditional approach.

PHILLIPS: So, give me an example. Give me a couple of examples, Alfie.

KOHN: Well, there's a program called the Big Picture Company that has schools all over the place where they form relationships with the kids and form the educational program around the kids' interests, so they're learning in a context and for a purpose as opposed to memorizing facts for a test. We're trying to think about grades and the like.

You know, 10 years ago, a program like this Fulton County proposal was tested scientifically. They took a bunch of teenagers at risk in the inner city and they gave them financial incentives to see if they could improve their grades or their attendance.

It turned out that the kids who got the rewards, the money -- of course, they liked the money, but what happened is their attendance went down even more than kids who weren't in the program at all. In other words, rewards aren't just ineffective, they're counterproductive and we've seen this over and over again.

PHILLIPS: And Commissioner, I know you're going to start the program, you got 15 weeks, then you're going to reevaluate. I want to bring you and Alfie back for sure ...

PITTS: Sure.

PHILLIPS: ...but your final thought on why your heart is in this, considering what Alfie has said and the studies done.

PITTS: Well, no disrespect intended for him, but if you look at the backgrounds of these kids, and I'm certain it is a 1,000 degrees different from what he's talking about now. These are kids -- it costs $40,000 to $50,000 per year to incarcerate a kid, a young black kid in particular. And we're spending $60,000 with the opportunity to save 40 kids, I think it's worth it. The nay-sayers are going to be there, but I'm looking for something from them that will address this target group.

I'm excited about this program, Speaker Gingrich is excited about it and we have one of our outstanding business people in Atlanta who has agreed to put up the money to fund the program. If it works, I think we can export it nationwide.

PHILLIPS: Well, we're going to follow up and bring you both back. Commissioner Robb Pitts, thank you so much. Alfie Kohn, you will come back, yes, in 15 weeks?

KOHN: Indeed.

PHILLIPS: It's a deal. Thanks, gentlemen.

KOHN: Thanks.

LEMON: Exactly how did Heath Ledger die? No answers yet. Next, we look at some of your memories.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Friend, co-star, father: that's how fans, peers, and family are remembering Heath Ledger a day after his sudden death. Investigators are still trying to confirm how he died, but for now, our CNN i-Reporters are celebrating how he lived, really celebrating his body of work as well.

Our Fredricka Whitfield joins us now with that. Fred, are these heart-felt?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, they really are. And Don, we're monitoring a lot of the responses from so many people who have either come into close contact with Heath Ledger because they met him or perhaps they saw him in close proximity. So, I want to read to you some of the comments we've been able to receive from some of the folks here.

Dan of Larchmont (ph), New York, he was driving, got a flat tire and describes in this i-Report that as he was jacking up his car, this deep voice came from behind him, need a hand? Well, turned out to be Heath Ledger. He says he couldn't believe it. He helped jack up my car and change the tire. He was really good with the tools.

And then, Donal of Los Angeles says he actually met Heath while working on the set of "The Patriot," and, you know, he said that this guy was fantastically kind and a sweet young man and that he actually surrounded himself with his friends from Australia and he never quite forgot any of us, those of the folks who actually worked with him.

And then Dena of New York says she was just smitten and mesmerized when she saw him on the street with his daughter and he was teaching his little daughter right and left and she kind of witnessed the interaction between he and daughter. She says she, his daughter, looked just like him, "he told her that they had to make a right and he asked her to point them in the right direction which she did. I soon realized that it was Heath Ledger and I got really excited."

And then Kristy O'Connor of Sydney, Australia, remembers what it was like to share a pre-natal yoga class with Heath Ledger and his former girlfriend, Michelle. And she says just how attentive he was with Michelle, really caught her by surprise. She says that she "was in awe of his devotion and attention to her. He was a true gentleman and I'm sure an amazing father" as well. "To make assumptions, "she goes on to say, Christy does, "as to how or why he died is to bring more pain to an already devastated family."

And then of course, we've also received some pictures from folks who've had their encounters with Heath Ledger. This one from the film set -- crew of "Lords of Dogtown," and they remember that he was quite the skater.

And in fact, so does another person was a writer and a report for a newspaper out of Imperial Beach, California, who sent this picture and said to see him on skates was really a very ordinary, usual kind of thing, he was just like any other typical California boy, they write -- Don?

LEMON: Yes, and I got an e-mail this morning from one of our producers here who said she met him when she worked at another place in Dallas and he was just nice and kind and took a picture ...

WHITFIELD: Yes.

LEMON: ...and she sent it to us as well. A lot of folks saying the same thing about him.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

LEMON: Fred, if you get any more i-Reports, will you let us know?

WHITFIELD: I will indeed.

LEMON: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: His neighbors are somehow cool with it, but city officials are so not with the residents' poisonous snake collection.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee is tightening his finances and that means his top advisers are now working for free. Chief adviser Ed Rollins said that he and several other top aides have agreed to forego their paychecks to save campaign cash. Huckabee is not the first candidate to take this step.

As we reported, Rudy Giuliani's top staffers started working without salaries earlier this month. Giuliani is pouring all of his resources in to winning the Florida primary.

LEMON: Hillary Clinton's debate night reference to a former Barack Obama donor who's now facing corruption charges is still causing campaign aftershocks. Clinton mentioned Antoin "Tony" Rezko in Monday night's CNN debate. Rezko goes on trial next month. Today on CBS, Barack Obama once again distanced himself from Rezko, saying Rezko supported a lot of Illinois political candidates, not just him. Obama also has given to charity some -- also has given to charity some $40,000 in contributions linked to Rezko and his associates. PHILLIPS: Former President Clinton today offered an aggressive defense of his wife and her ability to handle critics. This time, however, right wing conservatives, not other Democrats were the target.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The right wing in the Republican party just beat the living daylights out of her for the eight years I was president and they're still working on her today if the news reports are right. But I think that she has shown a degree of toughness that I have rarely seen in public life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, he must have a good relationship with his neighbors. We're talking about this next guy, because look at that -- otherwise, would his neighbors be cool with this collection of poisonous snakes?

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LEMON: Well, to one Florida man, dogs and cats are a dime a dozen -- yes, do you see that? He prefers to keep dozens of snakes, poisonous snakes as pets. His neighbors don't mind, but the city of Deltona does, seems they've got an ordinance preventing it, so the snake guy has formerly petitioned on behalf of his 50 rattlers, cobras and green mambas.

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