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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Economic Stimulus Package; Immigration Fight
Aired January 24, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Well thank you, Wolf.
Tonight the Bush White House and congressional leaders reaching a bold agreement on a short-term economic stimulus package, but the war on our middle class continues and our political leaders seem incapable of taking action to solve our long-term problems. We'll have all of that, all of the day's news, and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Thursday, January 24. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. President Bush and the congressional leadership today announced an agreement for a $150 billion economic stimulus package. If approved, the federal government will be sending tax rebate checks to more than 110 million families. House Speaker Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi and House Minority Leader Congressman John Boehner said this agreement will help middle class Americans but some lawmakers say the agreement does not go far enough to help poor Americans. Ed Henry reports from the White House. Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the bill may not be perfect, but as you know, leaders in both parties were under enormous pressure to do something to boost the economy and today they delivered.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): The president was quick to declare victory on a stimulus package that will pump $150 billion into the sagging economy.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This package has the right set of policies and is the right size. The incentives in this package will lead to higher consumer spending and increased business investment this year.
HENRY: The deal came after round-the-clock negotiations, Congress moving at record speed.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: I think this is a remarkable package because it is about putting money in the hands of America's working families.
HENRY: It gives $600 rebate checks to individuals making under $75,000, $1,200 for couples who earn less than $150,000 per year. Couples with kids get an extra $300 per child. In a concession to Democrats, workers who make at least $3,000 but don't pay taxes will still get $300 checks. In return, Democrats drop calls for an increase in food stamps and an extension of unemployment benefits. Republicans also secured tax breaks for small businesses who can write off 50 percent of purchases of plants and other capital equipment.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), MINORITY LEADER: The speaker gave some, as she said, and Republicans gave some. But I think it's a good compromise that will benefit the American people.
HENRY: There's one reason for the bipartisanship. It's an election year and both parties are desperate to show they're doing something about the sliding economy.
BUSH: This is agreement was the result of intensive discussions.
HENRY: While the president does not have to face the voters in November, he has a legacy to fret about. That's why White House officials say the economy will be a major focus Monday when he delivers his final State of the Union address.
BUSH: I know Americans are concerned about our economic future. Our economy is structurally sound but it is dealing with short-term disruptions in the housing market and the impact of higher energy prices.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: But this is not a done deal yet. Some senators are saying they want to add money for food stamps and other priorities. That could slow this down. And the Treasury Department is saying even if Congress finishes this bill in mid February, it might not be until late spring or early summer before all of the checks have hit all of the mail boxes, Lou.
DOBBS: If it takes that long, Ed Henry, let me give you a forecast. The Democrats will be torn up at the polls. It's my sense that the Senate will move expeditiously to put it mildly to get this -- these rebates back to the people who need them. The White House certainly is expecting a better performance than that, aren't they?
HENRY: Absolutely. And I think obviously if the Democrats were to delay this in the Senate that could give the White House an opening to say look the president is trying to fix the economy and the Democrats are slowing it down. Politically it wouldn't make sense for them, but as you know there are some...
(AUDIO GAP)
HENRY: ... said it saying that they want to add some of these other provisions and that might slow it down, Lou.
DOBBS: One unreasonable delay in this I think will be -- there will be a severe and heavy price for the Democratically-led Senate in the Democratic Party. They have got enough problems without adding to them especially after moving quickly and responsibly in the House. All right, thank you very much Ed Henry from the White House.
HENRY: Thank you.
DOBBS: Senator Majority Leader Senator Henry Reid says the stimulus package will be ready for the president's signature as soon as mid February, but some members of Senator Reid's party, as Ed Henry just said, are already criticizing the package. Those Democrats say this stimulus package could include an extension of unemployment benefit and other measures to help poor Americans. Brianna Keilar reports from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fast and bipartisan, two words not generally associated with Congress. House Republicans and Democrats bucked the norm of cross aisle bickering Thursday reaching a speedy agreement with the Bush administration on an economic stimulus package.
PELOSI: It is timely. It is targeted and it is temporary and it was done in record time.
BOEHNER: This agreement is a big win for the American people.
KEILAR: But hold on. It's not a done deal. The Senate still needs to weigh in and Democrats like Chuck Schumer say they don't want to rubber stamp the House plan.
SEN CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: The package is not complete and while it is a very good first step we need to move a little further.
KEILAR: Many Senate Democrats want to include extended unemployment benefits. It's a provision House Democrats dropped to reach an agreement with Republicans and the Bush administration.
SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), MONTANA: I believe that's a mistake and I hope that we can improve on that when we consider the tax bill here in the Senate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meeting will come to order.
KEILAR: And that's coming from Senator Max Baucus, head of the Senate Finance Committee. The stimulus package will have to make it past him. Senate Democrats also want an increase in food stamps, nutrition assistance, summer jobs programs for young people, and a number of other spending initiatives.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KEILAR: But Democrats and Republicans are indicating getting a bill on the president's desk may trump getting everything they want, Lou.
DOBBS: One would certainly hope so. Hoping at least that reason and some measure of compassion would trump all of this nonsense, partisan nonsense that's starting to rear its head there. The leadership in the Senate reasonably confident, Brianna that they're going to be able to get this out within two weeks?
KEILAR: At this point, Harry Reid is saying February 15th. That is when he is hoping to send legislation to President Bush and he's not backing off of that aim, Lou.
DOBBS: Yeah, if, you know to me it's unconscionable. In my opinion that's unconscionable. There's no reason for this Senate not to be acting in emergency session to get this bill, this legislation, after the House has passed it to the president for signature. And whatever -- I mean, the leadership of the Senate will bear the responsibility, and I'm not sure that that's going to be as -- well, as comfortable a process as Senator Reid might envision right now. Brianna Keilar, thank you very much, reporting from Capitol Hill.
The economic downturn remains a critical issue in this presidential campaign. In Florida which has been hard hit by the housing crisis the economy is the number one issue. The Republican candidates face an important primary there Tuesday. A new poll of polls indicate Senator John McCain is now leading 27 percent of the support in Florida followed closely by Mitt Romney.
Rudy Giuliani who staked most of his campaign fortunes on Florida is running in third. Democratic presidential candidates not campaigning in Florida because local Democrats defied the party there and brought forward the primary date. Tonight there is in fact one fewer Democrat in this race. Congressman Dennis Kucinich has dropped out of the presidential contest after poor results in the primaries thus far and caucuses.
And Senator Hillary Clinton today returned to the campaign trail in South Carolina two days before the Democrats vote there. The senator went back to South Carolina one day after President Clinton launched a scathing verbal attack against Senator Barack Obama and the media. Candy Crowley has our report from Columbia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She's back, after two days working February 5th states, Hillary Clinton returned to South Carolina. Her campaign dropped a controversial ad and her husband conceded to a concerned voter that maybe the Clinton-Obama food fight ought to end.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's pretty good advice.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's probably good advice for me too. When I was running I didn't give a rip what anybody said about me. It's weird, you know, but if you love somebody you would think it would be good -- harder.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (INAUDIBLE)
CROWLEY: Perhaps the mood is changing, as the South Carolina campaign moves into its final days, the traditional time to return to message.
H. CLINTON: It's time we had a president who believes that leading an economic comeback is a full-time hands-on job. It renews our commitment to a strong and prosperous middle class.
CROWLEY: As the candidate revisited her economic stimulus plan, a Clinton radio ad linking Obama with Republican policies went off the air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aren't those the ideas that got us into the economic mess we're in today?
CROWLEY: It was a quick hit only on the radio for 24 hours but the ad got lots of headlines. Mission accomplished. Still campaigns never really chill out as Bill Clinton was so famously advised to do recently. There will be some jabbing, it's just a little more artful.
H. CLINTON: I'm not a show horse, I'm a work horse.
CROWLEY: Hillary Clinton returns to New York tonight for a couple of fundraisers competing in the more than 20 contests February 5th is not a cheap proposition. But never fear, super surrogate is here on the ground in South Carolina showing some signs of wear and tear.
B. CLINTON: I feel like little scrambled eggs this morning, but I'll try to make sense of what I came to do.
CROWLEY: Two more days until the South Carolina primary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: Before we get all excited about this new mellower campaign trail, we should add that late this afternoon a surrogate for the Obama campaign was complaining that President Clinton was manipulating the facts while attacking Barack Obama and the Clinton campaign was accusing Barack Obama of not being sufficiently appreciative of all of the accomplishments during the Bill Clinton era. Lou.
DOBBS: So in other words nothing has really changed and that we continue to focus on the food fight, if you will. The idea that Senator Obama wants to remain above the fray seems to be portrayed by the way they're playing it with their surrogates. Bill Clinton looks like he is playing an increasingly larger role, not a lesser role in Senator Clinton's campaign.
CROWLEY: Absolutely. I think both of those things are true. I also want to say, though, that in fact both candidates have, as you know, unveiled stimulus plans, have talked about the economy in the long haul, that kind of thing and they do get asked. Today Hillary Clinton was asked about green jobs, as they're calling them, and how to create them.
And she talked about the energy fund that she would create to go after new sources of energy to reduce America's dependence on oil and that kind of thing. But as you note, when these sorts of back-and- forths occur and the campaigns are so tense about them, they do tend to bubble over the top of all of this.
DOBBS: And in terms of the issues, whose messages seem to be resonating best right now with South Carolinians.
CROWLEY: Let me tell you what the two campaigns think. I mean when we talk to South Carolinians they say listen we're voting on the issues. We're not voting on race. We're not voting on gender. We want to know who can help recreate really the South Carolina economy. When you talk to people in the Clinton crowds, they say she's so smart, she's got these great ideas.
They are drawn to her health care plan. When you talk to crowds around Barack Obama they say you know his economic stimulus plan is getting better reviews. We like that about him, so you know it's tough to tell until they go to the polls, but they insist when you talk to them that this really is about the issues. And that that's why they came to hear the candidates.
DOBBS: And it will be interesting to hear the explanation as to how three U.S. senators, two senators, one former senator in the case of John Edwards, on the Democratic side will explain how they have got all these new ideas having served in the U.S. Congress and are hardly outsiders and Senator John McCain and Mitt Romney, two men who are hardly outsiders, have suddenly have some sort of epiphany about what to do with the direction of this country. Fascinating process, this, huh?
CROWLEY: It is indeed.
DOBBS: Candy, thank you very much, Candy Crowley from Columbia, South Carolina.
Still ahead here the White House and congressional leaders say they have a plan to help middle class Americans. Christine Romans will have that report for us. Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, plenty of back slapping and congratulations in Washington and the administration and Congress managed to work together to hammer out an economic stimulus plan. The question is how quickly can they get it done and will it work? Lou.
DOBBS: Look forward to it, Christine, thank you.
New questions tonight about the federal government's willingness to defend our border with Mexico after the cold-blooded murder of a border patrol agent by drug smugglers back in Mexico now. We'll have a special report and a federal grand jury bringing hate crime charges in a stunning new development in the "Jena 6" case in Louisiana, so far no action concerning the principal or mayor or the leaders of that community. We'll have the story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: A memorial service was held today for border patrol agent Luis Aguilar (ph). Aguilar (ph) was run over and killed Saturday by a drug smuggler fleeing to Mexico. A suspect in the agent's brutal killing is now in custody in Mexico. The tragic murder makes it clear the federal government is not doing enough to improve security along our border as deadly violence from Mexican drug smugglers and the cartels continues to worsen. Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 1,000 border patrol agents and law enforcement officers gathered in Yuma, Arizona to honor agent Luis Aguilar (ph). The border patrol says he was run over by a fleeing smuggler, while attempting to lay down a stripe filled with spikes to stop two vehicles from escaping across the Mexican border. The FBI won't comment on its investigation into the killing. However an Arizona family visiting the Imperial Sand Dunes (ph) say they saw agent Aguilar (ph) run over by a Humvee traveling 55 miles an hour. They were standing about 25 feet away.
JULIE BREINHOLT, WITNESS: There was no slowing. There was no stopping. There was no anything. It was just (INAUDIBLE) and just going through and the hummer just went just right over him.
WIAN: The border patrol contends the killing was deliberate. Mexican authorities arrested a suspect Tuesday, 22-year-old Jesus Nevara Montez (ph). They say he has a rap sheet for human smuggling though this time they suspect he was transporting drugs. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said in a statement, "I applaud the government of Mexico for their investigative work and assistance. We will continue to work with Mexican authorities to investigate this heinous act and pursue swift justice."
Some law makers want the border patrol to ease restrictions on agents' use of force.
REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: There's a border war going on, Madam Speaker. Agents should have the authority to prevent the infiltration of criminal bandits into our homeland by any legal means necessary, otherwise our nation will continue to be at risk by these invaders and that's just the way it is.
WIAN: The way it is on the border, agents often find themselves outnumbered, outmaneuvered and outgunned. That may have cost Agent Aguilar (ph) his life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The border patrol says agents are permitted to use deadly force when their lives, the lives of other agents or members of the public are in danger. In fact just this morning a patrol agent in eastern Arizona shot and seriously wounded a suspect who reportedly tried to run the agent over. Lou.
DOBBS: Well it seems like it's just an unbelievably correct response to a threat, in a car. I mean that's a deadly weapon. How could there even be a discussion about what agents should do and why should our border patrol agents feel constrained in any way to protect themselves and to protect American citizens at the border.
WIAN: Yeah, they shouldn't. It's clear. The questions remain in this case as to why this agent decided not to use force. I mean part of the explanation could be that they had planned to lay these spike strips in front of the vehicle to stop it from going back into Mexico. Also you know there were witnesses to this event, to this killing of this agent. He was run over by the drug smugglers.
It's a recreational area with a lot of off-road vehicle enthusiasts in that area. Some people were very close to this incident when it happened, so maybe the agent feared for their safety and decided it wasn't appropriate for him to shoot at these vehicles at that time. Just speculation though Lou, but it's a possibility.
DOBBS: Well there's no speculation about this. The witnesses in this case were precisely as you described, tourists. People sitting there enjoying the countryside, the beautiful high desert there in the (INAUDIBLE) desert in Southern Arizona. I mean my gosh, what and the idea that the border patrol at this point and the FBI has done at least explained how many border patrol agents were with Agent Aguilar (ph) when this vehicle approached. What were they trying to accomplish? Why weren't they stopping? Not one, but two vehicles fleeing authorities.
WIAN: Yeah, there are a lot of questions and the FBI and the border patrol say this is still an ongoing investigation. They're actually asking for the public's help with any information they may have. But they are refusing to give us any more details about what led up to this pursuit, how many agents were involved, whether shots were fired or anything like that, Lou.
DOBBS: Look no one respects the border patrol more than I do, more than this broadcast. But the idea that the border patrol should be constrained by the FBI or the FBI constrained in at least laying out the details and facts of what happened. We're not talking about revealing the identity of the suspect. We're not talking about identifying a suspect.
We're talking about the public's right to know what's going on at a southern border and why one of the men who protects this nation and all of us was killed. And that is just not an acceptable answer from Michael Chertoff, the head of the Department of Homeland Security or any of his top officials.
WIAN: It certainly is frustrating, Lou.
DOBBS: Casey thank you very much. Casey Wian and of course our condolences go out to the family of Agent Aguilar (ph) and of course the entire U.S. border patrol. Thank you.
Up next some tough questions for the presidential candidates from Senator Jeff Sessions. Senator Sessions wants to know exactly where the candidates for both party's nominations stand on this country's illegal immigration crisis. What they're going to do about our border security. Senator Sessions joins us here.
And a Louisiana teenager charged with federal hate crimes allegedly intimidating civil rights marchers in a racially-charged "Jena 6" case, but what about the mayor, the principal of the school? What happened to them? Is this public relations or is this truly prosecuting a case correctly? We'll have that story next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In a rare move today, a federal grand jury indicted a Louisiana teenager of hate crime charges. Prosecutors say 18-year-old Jeremiah Munson threatened civil rights marchers when he drove past them several time with nooses hanging out of the back of his pickup truck. Those marchers had just finished a rally in support of six black teenagers known as the "Jena 6" now. They were charged nine months early with attempted murder for beating a white classmate. Those attempted murder charges were later dropped. Some are now wondering if the U.S. attorney in this latest incident is also going too far or perhaps pursuing public relations rather than justice. Sean Callebs has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eighteen-year-old Jeremiah Munson was arrested long after the peaceful march in Jena. Louisiana had ended on September 20. Munson is now charged with federal hate crimes for tying makeshift nooses crafted from electrical cords to the back of his truck and repeatedly taunting marchers. At the time the community was a racial powder cave. This is what the Alexandria police chief told CNN's David Mattingly when Munson was initially arrested.
CHIEF DARREN COUTEE, ALEXANDRIA POLICE DEPT.: Obviously more of a prank than anything else. We think so anyway. But during this kind of an atmosphere, of course, pranks like that don't go over very well.
CALLEBS: The chief says now he's pleased the feds acted. Federal authorities say Munson conspired to threaten and intimidate African American marchers. The Reverend Al Sharpton commended authorities saying, "I hope this is a signal that the Justice Department will now take the hangman's nooses more seriously. If they had prosecuted the white students that hung the nooses in Jena, we may never have had to raise the national outcry."
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: (INAUDIBLE)
CALLEBS: He's talking about an incident at Jena High School. Three students hung nooses from a tree escalating racial tensions that culminated with six black students beating a white student Justin Barker (ph) so severely he was briefly hospitalized. The six African American students were initially charged with attempted murder though charges were later reduced.
The white teens that hung the nooses were not charged rather punished by school administrators. That begs the question why does the full weight of the Justice Department come down on Munson, but not on the students? One simple reason, age. Munson is 18, an adult. The students were juveniles. Listen to what U.S. Attorney Donald Washington told lawmakers back in October.
DONALD WASHINGTON, U.S. ATTORNEY: Although the conduct is deeply disturbing and offensive, we decline to pursue charges after learning that the nooses had been hung by juveniles.
CALLEBS: Washington defends the action of his office saying it was made in accordance with long-standing policy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS: And here is a copy of the indictment that details how Munson and a companion who was a minor first talked about KKK activity and what the Klan would do to the marchers if they were in this area and details how they put the nooses on the truck and drove by the marchers. Now I had a chance to speak with Donald Washington, the U.S. attorney in this area. And he says that Munson is facing not only a hate crime, but also accused of violating the civil rights of the marchers. Now if, Lou, he is convicted, he faces one year in prison for the hate crime, up to 10 years in prison for the civil rights violation.
DOBBS: Well I think the question comes up, has everybody in this case just gone nuts? What in the world has happened to a principal who would permit that kind of atmosphere in that school? What has happened to the authorities, the law enforcement authorities who allowed Munson to drive back and forth in that tension-filled moment with those silly nooses hanging out of the back of a pickup truck and him acting like some idiotic Ku Klux Klanner (ph).
CALLEBS: You know I talked to the U.S. attorney about that, what happened because Alexandria, where Munson was arrested, is about 30 minutes from Jena. He was really nowhere near where the marchers were, but the marchers had to stay in hotels all around that area because basically there's nowhere to stay in Jena. Now I asked Washington specifically, now was this a quote, "bonehead action or was this something much more severe"? Washington said you know what, this was something much more severe, Lou, and then he stopped talking. He said I'm going to let the indictment speak for itself.
DOBBS: Well the indictment does speak for itself and Jena still has a great deal to answer for. There is still no resolution and this well extension and energetic prosecution of this 18-year-old fellow is hardly commensurate with the investigation that should be had into what happened in that high school and why on the part of both the city authorities there and the high school, in my opinion. Thank you very much, Sean Callebs.
Louisiana Police Sergeant Clifford Gavlin (ph) said of this case, "it's a case of aggravated ignorance."
In our poll tonight, we want to know what you think in our poll tonight. Do you agree that this a classic case of aggravated ignorance and doesn't rise to the level of a hate crime? Agree or disagree? We're going to be talking about this and doing a lot more reporting on the Jena six here. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts now.
Ray in Nebraska wrote in about the stimulus package agreed to in Washington today saying, "What a fine dog and pony show today. Pelosi and Boehner almost broke their arms patting themselves on the back for such an awesome job they did to draw up the stimulus package. Even if THEY are in total denial, the common folks in this country know it was them and their band of clowns in Washington who caused this mess in the first place."
Robert from Colorado, "Lou, I fear of this so called shot in the arm that everyone is going to get from Washington this is just a loan with interest that the middle class will have to pay in the future." You can take that to the bank.
And Millie in Nevada, "Lou, how abut if we all send those so- called stimulus checks back and just say 'no thanks'; we need to start somewhere to bring down this debt." A generous idea and a responsible one.
And Fred in Ohio, "Lou, $1200 is a big payday for us, but we would ask the president and Congress to put ours toward the national so it won't cost our grandkids $2400 to pay it back."
And Irma in Georgia, "Hey Lou, I just heard that the government has checks in the mail for most of us. Will that come with a list of products that are Made in the USA?" Irma of course referring to fed Chairman Ben Bernanke's statement that he hopes Americans will spend tax rebates on domestically-produced goods. That will be a challenge to say the least to find those goods.
We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast. Each of you who e-mail is read here receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day, Awakening the American Spirit."
Coming up next, Senator Jeff Sessions, he'll be joining us and he's laid down an important challenge to all presidential candidates. And one school district taking unusual action to encourage its students to learn. One of the biggest cities considering drastic measures to save its public schools. We'll also have that story and our political leaders rushing to claim credit for that stimulus package. That's stimulating. We'll have much more on that and a great deal more besides. All of those special reports, stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush and Congressional leaders tonight congratulating themselves on reaching a quick agreement on an economic stimulus package. The package that would give middle class Americans urgently needed help to combat this economic downturn. But working men and women and their families will continue to suffer from stagnant and declining wages, rising health care hosts, plummeting home values. This is not something for a quick fix. Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been called an aspirin for the American economy. It will make us feel better now but the headache, in all likelihood, will return.
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Energy prices going up and food prices going up, and housing values going down. For a lot of people, that was their piggy bank after all. It's really a drop in the bucket.
ROMANS: Indeed, many agree the $150 billion stimulus package won't rescue falling home prices or reverse the foreclosure crisis. Merrell Lynch forecasts home prices will tumble at least 25% over the next three years. Another study said homeowners will lose some $1.2 trillion in property value and at least another 1.4 million home foreclosures are expected this year.
A stimulus check from the treasury won't hold down health care premiums and 47 million Americans are still without health insurance.
Renowned economist Martin Feldstein prefers a stimulus plan that gets triggered, only if an economy downturn stretches three months in a row.
MARTIN FELDSTEIN, NATIONAL BUREAU OF ECONOMIC RESEARCH: But if triggering is not in the cards, then I would say it would be better to have an immediate fiscal package than to wait and see whether in fact the economy is turning down.
ROMANS: Even supporters acknowledge it isn't the economy's cure- all.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE SPEAKER: Let us praise it for what it does, not disrespect what it does not.
JASON FURMAN, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: To get out of the problem now it's pretty simple. It's cutting interest rates and stimulating the economy through tax cuts or spending increases and it looks like both of those are in the process of happening.
ROMANS: Most agree doing something is better than nothing at all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: But just how quickly can they get it done and can they muster this same spirit of bipartisanship to address the mounting issues in this class. At the same time, there are serious concerns that an ailing $13 trillion economy cannot be fixed quickly by lower interest rates and a $600 check alone, Lou.
DOBBS: There's lots of issues to be dealt with but I think Professor Feldstein said it absolutely correctly, better now than later and get some help on the way. It's going to be fascinating to see if this Senate is so ignorant as to not move quickly. If they take two weeks to move on this, I mean they're going to have a lot of explaining to do and they're going to create another question for the democratic presidential candidates, which they don't need at this juncture.
ROMANS: Let me ask you about economic stewardship after that. Even if they can get it done quickly, do you think there's economic stewardship to make sure that the next steps can be taken and that we can avert you know unintended circumstances and the like?
DOBBS: The answer is categorically no. What we are calling - what many of our colleagues and others are calling bipartisanship right now is simply shared fears on the part of both democrats and republicans in Washington, D.C. Remove those shared fears and bipartisanship evaporates rates and deep thinking and responsible thinking isn't the long suit for either political party, as you probably noticed.
Christine, thank you very much. Great report; Christine Romans.
The economy, of course, isn't the only issue that voters are concerned about this election year. We're all deeply concerned about border security, illegal immigration and today Senator Jeff Sessions, one of the country's leading critics of illegal immigration and the failure to secure our borders and ports, challenged all of the presidential candidates of both parties to commit to fixing this nation's broken immigration system. Senator Sessions joins me now from Washington, D.C. Senator, good to have you with us.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: Thank you, Lou. Good to be back.
DOBBS: Senator, you're asking each of these candidates, republicans and democrats, to say what?
SESSIONS: Well, to explain in more detail what they really intend to do. You know we've had some general words from them that they want to do something to improve the illegality in our immigration system but a committed president I'm absolutely convinced can completely reform immigration. I don't know why we couldn't have an 80 percent reduction in illegal immigration in the next three or four years; easily done, if we have a committed president.
They're not talking about it. I've been disappointed that there's been a lack of real discussion about the specific steps that need to be taken that will work to improve the problem we've got.
DOBBS: Senator, I have to smile, as you speak, because I happen, first of all, to think you're exactly right but I keep thinking of the open borders, amnesty agenda, the advocates, the socioethnocentric interests, corporate America who are trying to push through the mainstream media, the idea of issue of illegal immigration is no longer a concern to Americans in either party, it's no longer -- border security is no longer a priority as if the polls were all wrong. Yet these candidates are so afraid of this issue on the democratic side, they won't even take it up. Both Senator Obama and Senator Clinton have basically said to me and said of me that, you know, I'm completely wrong on this issue that we have got to have comprehensive immigration reform. They are not going to address this issue responsibly and we know that.
SESSIONS: Well, I think we've got to push these candidates now, because pretty soon, maybe in just a few weeks he'll be down to two. And we need to have at least some of those -- one of those candidates, if not both, committed to doing some of the things, all of the things, really, necessary to be successful. If we don't, we're going to have a difficult time, because without the support and leadership from the president, as we've seen from the last 30 years, nothing is going to happen.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, former Governor Mitt Romney, Senator John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, of those, who do you think on the republican side is most committed to border security, port security, and stopping illegal immigration?
SESSIONS: Well, just on their websites, Senator Romney has the most detail -- Governor Romney has the most detail and has some ideas that I think are effective. But really, I would like them to discuss these 15 points, each of which I believe are critical to establishing a good system, and let's see where we're heading from there.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
SESSIONS: Have a discussion. Don't you think, before these guys ask to be president of the United States, we're entitled to at least know before we vote for them or against them how they stand on this issue?
DOBBS: Senator, I couldn't agree with you more. Frankly, all of them scare me to death on the issue because I think some folks -- Senator McCain says he's gotten the message. So I'm going to take the man and his word but as reporting on it and you participating in it there in Washington, D.C., the process on illegal immigration reform that we witnessed over the last three years in Washington, D.C. has been breathtaking in its deceit, its duplicity, its misrepresentation. It's breathtaking.
SESSIONS: It's really been that way for about 30 years. People have promised and promised with no real intention to follow through. That's why commitments to specific actions that can work need to be obtained from our candidates.
DOBBS: Well, I think it's a wonderful idea. We're going to direct folks to your website. We're going to put up your 15 points on ours and we appreciate you doing it. Thank you very much, Senator Jeff Sessions, for being with us.
SESSIONS: Thank you.
DOBBS: Up next here, some of the nation's public schools are taking drastic measures trying to save their schools and their students. One system's controversial plan to pay students to learn, we'll be talking about that tonight.
And we'll tell you which city wants to just outright fire hundreds of teachers who aren't getting it done.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, one community is taking a new approach to trying to help their students learn. In Fulton County, Georgia, the schools will be paying students for participating in after school tutoring programs and for raising their grades. Fulton Country Commissioner Rob Pitts is among those who developed the program for middle and high school students, joining us tonight from Atlanta, Georgia.
Let me say, first of all, Mr. Pitts, thank you for being here. And the idea of paying students to learn is pretty revolutionary in this country. What was the basis of paying -- what would you call that? Earning to learn?
ROBB PITTS, FULTON COUNTY COMM.: Learn to earn, right? Yes.
First of all, let me clarify one thing though. I am not, as your promo said, the Commissioner of Education for Fulton County. There is no such animal. I'm a member of the board of Fulton County, Board of Commissions of Fulton County.
DOBBS: You're not a commissioner of Fulton County?
PITTS: I am commissioner of Fulton County but not - there is no animal Commissioner of Education. We have no purview over education whatsoever. That said, though, as a former educator, I have a very strong interest in education and to your point of how this all came about, I was attending the annual meeting of the Buck Head Coalition, one of the business groups in Atlanta and former speaker Newt Gingrich mentioned this concept, this idea. And I was very excited about it, spoke with him about it and said that if this concept, if this program can work anywhere in this country, it's my feeling that it can work, and will work in Atlanta, Georgia and Fulton County.
So from that, we met with the Fulton County school system representatives, including the superintendent, Atlanta public school system to put the program together. So over the past several months, that's what we've been doing, leaving the mechanics of it up to the educators. My role was to spearhead that and to idea the funding and which this is all private, by the way. It's being funded by one of our outstanding business leaders, Mr. Charlie Loudermilk who is the founder and CEO of Aaron Rents.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask you this. Newt Gingrich had this idea. It's revolutionary, the idea of paying students to learn to be tutored. Man, that sure changes the value structure, doesn't it?
PITTS: Well, you know, we're at a point in this country where we have to do something and as he talks about real change, requires real change, I really bought into that. When you look at where we are as a nation, with respect to math and science in particular, it's undeniable that we are lagging behind China and India. So if our young people are going to be able to compete going forward, they're going to have to do better.
This target group of students, they are bright students, in some cases doing extremely well in other subject matters but are simply having trouble with math and science. So we thought that if this can be an incentive for them, it is going to work.
DOBBS: I got it. But I talked with Principal Sharon Johnson, among others, from Cincinnati. In less than ten years, they took the graduation rate from under 60 percent to almost - I mean they're approaching 100 percent. They did it without paying anybody. They did it without talking about globalization or competing and all these buzz words that's taking over and in Cincinnati it strikes me that they value education for what it is. It is an enriching experience, it is learning for the sake of learning and being better citizens and not competing with India and China, you know, the way you and I were brought up in public schools. We weren't told we're going to learn math and science because we had to compete with anybody. We're told because it's the right thing to do. It was the American thing to do. It was the major source of equalization in this country. What in the world are we doing when we start paying kids to study?
PITTS: I applaud the principal in Cincinnati for whatever she's been able to do. Maybe we need to try to replicate that across the country, if that's possible. But in this particular case, I think you'll agree that there are just kids who are caught in certain situations, through no fault of their own, bright kids and times have changed since you and I were young people. The world is different. It's a different place in which we live. If we are going to prepare our kids to compete, we need to do whatever we can and particularly in the areas of math and science.
I have a 16-year-old daughter. I reward her as do many parents do, I'm sure, whenever she does an exceptional job with her report card. So from that point of view, it's not necessarily a new concept but to target a group like this; you also are aware, and I've heard you use this before, you know, it costs approximately 40 to $50,000 to house or incarcerate a criminal per year. Now, we have 40 people, 40 young people in this program, total cost of $60,000. If we are able to save, you know, five, 10, 15, 30 of these young people with $60,000, what a wonderful thing we will have done not only for the kids but for their families and this country.
DOBBS: We're going to follow you, see how it does. We'll do some more thinking about it, some philosophizing and talking with you. We appreciate it. Good to have you here. Good luck.
PITTS: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: In a few minutes, we'll be telling you about a city that's just simply going to fire some teachers that don't get it done. Pretty straightforward.
Coming up at the top of the hour, the "ELECTION CENTER" and John Roberts. John?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Lou, thanks very much. Good evening to you.
"CNN ELECTION CENTER" coming up at the top of the hour. Tonight, we are focusing on the economy and what the democrats would do about it. I'll grill the top advisers to the major democratic candidates.
Also, why a million people who may want to vote might be denied that right in November.
And my interview with republican John McCain who appears to be the front-runner in Florida now.
All of that and more coming your way at the top of the hour just a few minutes from now. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you, John.
Up next, one city takes radical steps to improve underperforming schools. And it simply is going to fire all of the bad teachers. How about that for straightforward?
And the Bush administration, it's ready to send more troops to Pakistan to fight al Qaeda. All that has to happen is Pakistan has to ask. I'll be talking about that with General David Grange.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Defense Secretary Robert Gates today said the United States is "ready, willing and able to send American troops to Pakistan." The defense secretary's comments came amid rising concern about the increasing threat posed by radical Islamist terrorists in Pakistan and to Pakistan.
Joining me now, General David Grange, one of the country's most distinguished former military commanders. General, let me ask you something. I've got a real problem. I've got great respect for Bob Gates, the secretary of defense, but when this administration says all a country has to do is ask and we're going to send our troops, that seems just a little, if you will, light-handed for me.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, first of all, Afghanistan -- I mean Pakistan obviously has to ask for the troops. And -- but if they do, it is in our best interest to send them, to send them as trainers, advisers and to do covert unconventional type operations which will have an effect on al Qaeda.
DOBBS: Dave, we got - I'm just -- whoa is what I got to say. I'm one of those folks right now who is now very, very skeptical. I'm not cynical about it but I'm very skeptical. When our military and when this administration and our civilian defense leaders start telling us this is going to be a great idea, we're going to be able to put in these advisers, these trainers and so forth. I want to hear the Congress way in. I want a lot of other folks involved in this. I don't want it to be dear Musharraf, just ask and you've got more American assets and lives at your disposal. It's got to be more measured, more considered and more deliberate response in terms of foreign policy and military action than that. Don't you think?
GRANGE: Well and that's what will happen. I mean I would definitely hope so. I mean a lot of people would have to be involved in this decision. We're taking a comment and we're saying, okay, this is all he has to do is ask. Obviously there's going to be detailed planning.
DOBBS: That's what they said. That's what they said. I don't care about the planning.
GRANGE: Well, I care about the planning. There's a sanctuary.
DOBBS: I don't want to plan until I know what the heck people are talking about. I'm sick and tired of not knowing what this administration is talking about.
GRANGE: Lou, you and I are not going to know this plan because it's going to be a very unconventional sensitive plan. We're not going to know but something has to be done with the sanctuary in Pakistan if we expect to do something about al Qaeda and preserve the stability of Pakistan itself.
DOBBS: Dave Grange, you got a good track record. I hope you're right. But I'm still a skeptic and I still don't want us operating this way as United States of America. Sorry about that. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. Dave, good to have you here.
GRANGE: Thanks, Lou. I'm right, we'll win it.
DOBBS: All right, cotton pick it. We'll just see about that. Thanks, Dave Grange.
Still ahead, one city's drastic proposal to save its failing public schools. Listen up, America, this could be a solution, at least in part.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The city of Chicago has come up with an interesting plan to save its troubled public schools. It wants to fire hundreds of teachers and principals who aren't getting it done. Supporters of that proposal say it would bring better trained, better performing educators into those schools but as Susan Roesgen now reports, the drastic plan is facing stiff opposition.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Next year at Chicago's Harper High School, the hallways and lockers may be the same, but all 130 teachers and support staff could be gone. ARNE DUNCAN, CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS SUPT.: We have a moral obligation to come in and do something better for those children now. We cannot wait.
ROESGEN: Chicago's school superintendent wants to fire bad teachers at eight failing public schools. So, he's willing to lay them all off and make them reapply for their jobs.
Last year, at this one high school, 95 percent of the students flunked the state academic exam.
(on camera): Here at Harper (ph) High School, the principal says the prospect of getting new teachers is fabulous. The teachers union says, not so fast.
MARILYN STEWART, CHICAGO TEACHERS UNION: How can you blame the teachers when everybody -- there's accountability all up and down the line. There's parent accountability. There's district accountability. There's a principal accountability. There's teacher accountability, and there's student accountability. So, how can you just blame a teacher who has a child for six hours a day? We're doing our job.
ROESGEN: Firing the teachers is not a done deal. Chicago's school board will vote on the plan next month.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN: And the superintendent says, look, we have a moral obligation to do something right now. There is no time to lose. Students need a fresh start.
He says that, although this has been tried before in Chicago, this time around, he's going to start with replacing teachers, Lou, at the elementary level, so that he says they will have a fresh start all the way from kindergarten on up to the end of high school -- Lou.
DOBBS: Are they going to do anything besides just fire teachers? Are they going to provide smaller classroom size? Are they going to give more support, and a better vision of what should be happening in those schools?
ROESGEN: Yes, they are going to do those things, too, but I think the main thing that everyone is looking at right now is this wholesale -- what they call a wholesale layoff, a turnaround. And it's the teachers that are going to be odd men out.
DOBBS: Well, I think if you got a 95 percent failure rate, you need to get rid of some teachers and some principals, maybe even a superintendent.
Susan, thank you very much, Susan Roesgen from Chicago.
The results of our poll tonight, 63 percent of you say that the indictment of a Louisiana teenager for hanging nooses from a truck is a case of aggravated ignorance and doesn't rise to the level of a hate crime.
We will have a lot more on that case here.
Now for your thoughts, one quick e-mail.
Sandy in California said: "Dear Lou, are these presidential candidates all idiots? Any regular person like me could clearly see what was happening with our economy long, long ago. They are so busy with their personal attack on one another, they are completely clueless."
Send us your thoughts to loudobbs.com.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow. For all of us, good night from New York.
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