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Obama, Post-Victory; Underperforming Schools; SAG Awards Preview
Aired January 27, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I talk a lot about hope. And no wonder because if you think about it, the odds of me being here today are very small.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Fresh off his South Carolina win, presidential hopeful Barack Obama takes on another southern state.
Our Suzanne Malveaux caught up with him on the campaign trail. The full interview straight ahead.
Plus, tit for tat between John McCain and Mitt Romney. We will tell you what the spat is all about.
And later, when teachers don't perform, do you fire them all? One school superintendent says yes. The heated debate between him and the teachers union.
And holy smokes, an elementary school up in flames. We will tell you what caused the blaze in the CNN NEWSROOM.
And hello, everyone. I'm Tony Harris.
Senator Barack Obama says his huge Democratic primary victory in South Carolina is a sign he can appeal to people of any race in any state. Not surprisingly, his rival, Senator Hillary Clinton, has a different take. She downplays her defeat and she's already looking ahead focusing her energies on the more than 20 contests coming up on super Tuesday.
Obama says people are responding to what he calls his new brand of politics. He's also picking up support from party icons of the past. Tomorrow he's expected to get the endorsement of Massachusetts Senator Edward Kennedy.
Today Obama told a rally that he is going to keep speaking out on the issues that matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Part of what you need from the next president is somebody who won't just tell you what you want to hear, but will tell you what you need to hear, will tell you the truth. Don't vote for me if you don't want to hear the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: We are going to hear from Senator Obama in his own words in just a few minutes. We will bring you his one-on-one conversation with our Suzanne Malveaux in about 10 minutes from now right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Senator Obama isn't the only one awed by his victory. The highest ranking African-American in Congress happens to hail from South Carolina, Representative James Clyburn has yet to endorse a presidential candidate, but that isn't stopping him from talking about his fellow Democrats.
I caught up with him a little while ago and asked if Barack Obama can keep this momentum going through super Tuesday.
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), MAJORITY WHIP: He came into South Carolina having proven that he could get non-black votes. I think that what he did in South Carolina was demonstrate that he could put together blacks and whites, men and women, he could put together Christians and Jews and some non-Christians and non-Jews. He put together a group of activists here on the ground, 11,000 of them.
And let me tell you something, a young African-American or woman manages his campaign in South Carolina, Stacey Brayboy, nobody is talking about. She did a marvelous job. Hillary Clinton's campaign manager in South Carolina was an African-American woman.
Yesterday I saw young African-Americans involved in politics in a way that had never been involved in before. People used to think that these people couldn't run campaigns successfully. Both camps showed that they can.
So that is what this is all about to me. Bringing people into the process, making sure that they participate and doing nothing to tamp down their enthusiasm.
HARRIS: OK. That wasn't the only thing we talked about. Find out what else the House majority has to say on race, gender and Bill Clinton on the campaign trail. We are airing the interview in its entirety tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
Let's turn to the Republicans now in what has become an increasingly bitter fight in Florida.
The Florida primaries are Tuesday with polls showing Mitt Romney and John McCain battling for the lead. This weekend the rhetoric turned toward pocketbook issues and the threat of recession.
Mitt Romney says that unlike John McCain economics is his specialty but Senator McCain was quick to question Romney's record.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He doesn't want to talk about the economy because, frankly, he's pointed out time and again that he doesn't understand how the economy works and right now that's the biggest issue that voters here in Florida are concerned about and they want somebody who does understand the economy, and having him say I don't understand the economy how it works, I got to get a VP that'll show me how it works, that's a real problem for him.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm proud of my record on the economy and the -- well, Governor Romney's record as governor of Massachusetts where he had very third lowest job creation, where they had $730 million in tax increases, where they had more manufacturing jobs flee the state of Massachusetts than almost double the national average and now a health care mandate that's $245 million in the red.
I'd be glad to compete and debate on those issues. My record on the economy is very strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Mike Huckabee has perhaps the most radical economic plan among Republicans. He wants to wipe out the IRS and create a consumption tax. He calls it a fair tax and he says it will force everyone and he means everyone to pay taxes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're not just paying your taxes, you're paying yours and you're also paying all the taxes for the drug dealers, the prostitutes, the pimps and gamblers and all the illegals who live under the table and don't even operate in the economy you do.
Well, welcome to the real world, rest of America. Join us in the fair tax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: OK. Don't miss the big showdowns in the wild, wild west next week. The candidates will face off in California, their last debates before super Tuesday. That's January 30th for the Republicans and the 31st for the Democrats. You can you see it only on CNN, your home for politics.
It has been a tough day for firefighters all across western Oklahoma. There was just no saving this vacant middle school in Chickasha. Firefighters are also battling numerous grass fires in and around Oklahoma City. We just learned a few minutes ago some people in Rosston and nearby areas are being evacuated and others are on alert due to a fast-spreading grass fire. There's a red flag warning in effect for fire danger, but as bad as it is today, tomorrow is actually expected to be even worse due to strong winds in the forecast.
Let's get you to Jacqui Jeras in severe weather center.
(WEATHER REPORT) HARRIS: Let's talk a bit more about California. Most days California would welcome rain. Today wasn't one of those days. Whoa. As you can see the region is deluged by early this afternoon, over two inches have fallen in some areas, and here's the result. Emergency crews worked fast to rescue two teen girls after their car plunged into a riverbed near Los Angeles.
Over the past few days, fierce storms have caused deadly avalanches, as Jacqui just mentioned, flooded streets and set off mud and rock slides. More rain and an ongoing landslide threat are expected tonight and a few thousand people, we understand, are still -- look at this, look at this rescue -- are still without power.
One day after a landslide victory in South Carolina, Senator Barack Obama sits down for a one-on-one with CNN.
What he has to say about the win, the looming monster super Tuesday and why he says he's not perfect.
And what do you think about paying your kids to study? What about firing all the teachers in a poorly performing school? We touch on both hot topics tonight.
Your children's education is on our minds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Race, gender, demographics, who voted for whom and why? Lots of talk today about yesterday's overwhelming primary win for Democrat Barack Obama, and whether the issues or the candidates themselves drove voters in South Carolina.
Our Suzanne Malveaux spoke with Senator Obama a short time ago and asked him about that. Suzanne's in Birmingham, Alabama.
Suzanne, great to see you. Got a quick question for you. Was Barack Obama surprised by the scope of the win last night or did he see this coming somehow?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think they were really surprised by some of those numbers. It was a lot larger than they expected. They really felt there was a lot of energy and a lot of momentum but really to see kind of almost a landslide victory was really something special for him.
Obviously he's trying to build on that momentum, coming out of South Carolina. Today he was in Macon, Georgia and Birmingham, Alabama, that's where we are, obviously holding some big rallies.
I had a chance to sit down and talk to him one on one to talk about how he felt things worked in South Carolina and some of the issues looking forward.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Congratulations, Senator, for your big win in South Carolina.
OBAMA: Thank you.
MALVEAUX: You got 80 percent of the African-American vote. You pretty much split the white vote with your other two opponents. There was a lot of discussion about race before this vote. Your campaign, the Clinton campaign accusing each other of exploiting the issue. What happened?
OBAMA: Well, you know, I don't want to go over tit for tat what happened last week. I think it's fair to say that it's never been my style and never been my interest to run a race-based campaign and that my whole message has always been that I want everybody included in a broad coalition to bring about change.
That reflects my own life and my own background, and that reflects how I think we're going to solve problems, how we're going to provide health care for people who need it. How we're going to make sure that every child in America gets the education they deserve, how we're going to have a strong energy policy and foreign policy that restores respect around the world.
So I have dedicated big chunk of my life to moving us beyond some of those old arguments and I think the people of South Carolina responded yesterday in part because they don't want to go backwards. They want to look forward, and that's part of the reason why we did so well.
MALVEAUX: CNN has confirmed multiple sources that you have a major endorsement under way, Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy. Obviously that's a very big deal for you and does this is -- perhaps signal that there's -- the Democratic establishment that seems to be turning in your corner, turning your way.
OBAMA: Well, you know, Ted Kennedy has not announced that he's endorsed me.
MALVEAUX: You can make news. You can break news on CNN.
OBAMA: Ted Kennedy, you know, speaks for himself and does so eloquently, so I can confirm that I have actively sought his endorsement. I was honored to see Caroline Kennedy write a wonderful op-ed today in "The New York Times" invoking her father and talking about why she was supporting my campaign, but I'll let Teddy speak for himself.
MALVEAUX: You said last night part of your speech, we are against the idea that it's acceptable to say anything or do anything to win an election.
Do you believe the Clintons are doing that?
OBAMA: Well, what I believe is that we are seeing hopefully the transition away from a culture of politics that a lot of people have participated in, and that in our own campaign I have to constantly fight off and that is that the ends justify the means. I think that the means are important, because if we get in the habits of saying anything, distorting people's records or misquoting them or shading their positions, then over time that erodes trust in government. It erodes trust in our elected officials.
It's part of the perpetual campaign that's developed where we never, you know, have an honest debate about where we're going to take the country. Somebody wins, and then you start governs for awhile. That's not what happens. I mean everything is spin these days, and, you know, I think that part of what people were responding to yesterday in South Carolina and what they've responded to in this campaign is, although I'm far from perfect, I think I've tried to signal that I want to move in a different direction.
I want the American people to be able to trust what I say. And if I am uncertain about an issue, then I'll tell them that we still have more work to do before we decide a direction. If I have a disagreement with the American people on a certain issue or at least a majority of them, I will let them know. I'm not going to poll test everything because I think it'll be politically popular because I want when we make hard decisions around dealing with climate change or we make a hard decision about changing our tax code to reward working families, I want the American people to give me that mandate to bring about that change.
MALVEAUX: But what do you think about the Clintons' behavior? I mean do you think it has been appropriate this last week?
OBAMA: You know, I think I said last week that there were times when they were presenting my record in a way that I objectively -- news outlets assessed was inaccurate. I want to make sure that gets corrected. I want to spend more time taking about how we're going to solve the problems.
MALVEAUX: Let's move forward to the economy then. Obviously, Congress is going to be proposing its economic stimulus package to the president. There's some of your colleagues in the Senate who say it doesn't go far enough. They want to see an increase in food stamps. They want to see more subsidies for heating their homes, extending unemployment benefits. Where do you stand on this?
OBAMA: Well, I think it is good that the president, the speaker and majority leader Reid got together quickly and recognized the urgency of the situation. The economy is teetering on the brink of a significant slowdown, and even before this, ordinary Americans were trying to figure out how to stay in their homes, how to get a job that pays a living wage, how to send their kids to college, and at the same time save for retirement, dealing with health care costs, I mean, there have been enormous pressures, and so even before the hint of a recession or the possibility of recession, I had said we have to fundamentally change our tax code.
I was the only Democrat to propose middle class tax cuts for working families who make less than $75,000 a year, making sure that we're alleviating some of the tax burden on seniors, and that was a strategy that was designed for the long term. Now, short term, I was the first Democrat to say we need to focus on almost entirely on getting money into the pockets of Americans as quickly as possible and that's the agreement that in broad contours has been come up with, but I do agree that it's important for us to look at extending unemployment insurance, because long-term unemployment now is twice the rate of the last recession, and I think food stamps is a very effective way to get money into circulation quickly. So we don't want to just have benefits going to people who won't spend the money but people who will spur the economy.
MALVEAUX: So are you satisfied with the economic stimulus package now, or do you want to see it...
OBAMA: I would -- I continue to believe that we can make improvements. I think the broad outlines of the tax stimulus are appropriate. But I also think that extending unemployment insurance making sure that we have a food stamp provision to the extent that we can provide some heating assistance, I think that would all be appropriate.
We have to keep in mind, though, that this is designed for short-term stimulus so if we're starting to put in there provisions that really are not going to kick in until next winter, for example, or aren't going to kick in until next year, then we're probably better off doing that through the regular budget process.
MALVEAUX: Last question. President Bush is delivering his State of the Union address to the American people. If you were president today with the war as it is, with the economy sinking, what would you say to the American people about the State of the Union on Monday?
OBAMA: What I would say is that the state of the American people is strong, but the state of our government is weak. And what we need to do is to have a government that reflects the decency and strength and ingenuity and optimism of the American people, and the only way we're going to do that is to start rebuilding an economy from the bottom up so that ordinary people are getting the benefits of hard work and entrepreneurship.
It means that on the foreign policy front, that we are going to lead not just militarily but we're going to lead by example, that we shut down Guantanamo, we restore habeas corpus, we begin to bring our troops home from Iraq. We reinitiate diplomacy around the world and we work in concert with other countries on critical issues from climate change to genocide to nuclear nonproliferation.
But I think that's an enormous opportunity that's out there and the longer I run for president, the more optimistic I am about the possibilities for this country if we've got the right leadership.
MALVEAUX: Thank you very much, Senator.
OBAMA: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: And, Tony, Barack Obama will be in Washington, D.C. tomorrow at American University. He's holding a rally there and that is where he's going to get the official endorsement from Ted Kennedy. That endorsement very important for a number of reasons. It really kind of completes the trifecta. You have the Massachusetts governor as well as the two Massachusetts senators all now backing his campaign in a very important state, of course, on the day of super Tuesday.
The other reason he's so important is that he is very strong when it comes to Latino community. He has a lot of support and that is something that Barack Obama needs to build on, he hopes to build on that in California, as well as New York -- Tony?
HARRIS: All right. Good, great, great interview, Suzanne Malveaux for us from Birmingham, Alabama. Suzanne, thank you.
Still ahead in the NEWSROOM, what job can you get that will pay $8 an hour? Flipping burgers, pouring lattes? What about hitting the books? A battle over paying kids to study. We take the controversy on head on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: You know, it is a concept many parents have been buying into for years but this time someone new is footing the bill right here in Fulton County, Georgia. Forty students will be paid -- paid? -- to attend tutoring sessions.
The pilot program is privately funded but raising all kinds of eyebrows, so our Josh Levs went to check it out. OK. And he's here to tell us all about it.
What did you find?
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE) all kinds of eyebrows.
HARRIS: Yes, I tried to raise an eyebrow, yes.
LEVS: Oh I guess it's been waxed or something. Would you do this? Would you do something like this?
HARRIS: Look, the trade-off is, you know, there's a big tab when the kids don't get through school...
LEVS: Right. Yes.
HARRIS: So maybe...
LEVS: Maybe.
HARRIS: ..you look into this, right?
LEVS: Well, that's the idea, it's a big experiment.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEVS: And I'll tell you the topics it's not government money. It makes some people feel better about it. But the idea here is -- before you have heard of programs in which kids get money maybe for getting great grades or getting great scores. Here they're getting it just for showing up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEVS (voice over): Kids study to learn, get good grades, get into a good college but should they study for money?
At Creekside High near Atlanta, these kids are getting eight bucks an hour to be tutored in math and science.
UNIDENTIFIED TUTOR: Two times three and...
LEVS: And experimental program for promising students with low grades.
ROBB PITTS, FULTON COUNTY GEORGIA COMMISSIONER: If we don't do something, we're doing a disservice to our children.
LEVS: The idea came from Newt Gingrich. There's no taxpayer money involved. His daughter heads a foundation sponsoring the program.
JACKIE CUSHMAN, "LEARNING MAKES A DIFFERENCE" FDN: Is it the answer, no. Is it possible that it might work, yes.
LEVS: Some people wrote "The Atlanta Journal Constitution" calling the program "unfair to kids who work hard to begin with" and "one of the dumbest things I have ever heard." Some experts say it could make kids less interested in learning when they're not being paid.
ALFIE KOHN, AUTHOR, "PUNISHED BY REWARDS": Rewards aren't just ineffective, they're counterproductive and we've seen this over and over again.
LEVS: Some studies suggest rewards for grades or test scores may work, but these kids get paid for showing up, two hours, twice a week.
(On camera) There are about 2500 students at this school but for this program only 20 were chosen.
(Voice over) As for the money...
PITTS: In many instances these kids are working because whatever they earn, their families need that.
LEVS: Organizers say kids with jobs could cut back work hours but for some...
ALEXIS YARGER, HIGH SCHOOL JUNIOR: The money doesn't really matter. I just need extra help in math.
LEVS: Fourteen-year-old Jailyn Brown is in the same program at a nearby middle school. He has plans for the money.
JAILYN BROWN, 8TH GRADE STUDENT: Probably give it to my mom. She needs it.
LEVS: After 15 weeks organizers will check all 40 students' grades and test scores.
PITTS: If the results are as we think they will be, all of those nay- sayers will ago away. And this program -- we'll be able to export this program nationwide.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEVS: And that's why now people all over the country are starting to take a really close look at this. The truth is if after 15 weeks they find that these kids' grades and scores are up, then we might start to see stuff like this, Tony, all over the country including your neighborhood.
HARRIS: Try something.
LEVS: Yes.
HARRIS: Just...
LEVS: That's the idea.
HARRIS: Fifteen weeks. And we'll have an idea.
LEVS: Yes, we're going to go back. We'll be back (INAUDIBLE)...
HARRIS: Right.
LEVS: We'll be back in 15 weeks, see if the kids are pulling ahead, and even if they kept showing up.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes. All right, Josh. Appreciate it. Thank you.
LEVS: Thanks. Yes.
HARRIS: So we've talked about paying the students. What about firing the teachers? All the teachers. Sounds like an extreme move to help America's failing schools get back on track but one Chicago school chief says it's the only way at least in his district.
Susan Roesgen has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN NEWSROOM (voice over): Next year at Chicago's Harper High School, the hallways and lockers may be the same, but all 130 teachers and support staff could be gone.
ARNE DUNCAN, SUPT., CHICAGO SCHOOLS: We have a moral obligation to come in and do something dramatically better for those children now. We cannot wait.
ROESGEN: Chicago's school superintendent wants to fire bad teachers at eight failing public schools so he's willing to lay them all off and make them re-apply for their jobs.
Last year at this one high school, 95 percent of the students flunked the state academic exam.
(On camera) Here at Harper High School, the principal says the prospect of getting new teachers is fabulous. The teachers union says not so fast.
MARILYN STEWART, CHICAGO TEACHERS UNION: How can you blame the teachers when everybody -- I mean, there is accountability all up and down the line. There's parent accountability. There's district accountability. There's a principal accountability. There's teacher accountability and there's student accountability. So how can you just blame a teacher how has a child for six hours a day? We're doing out job.
ROESGEN (voice over): Firing the teachers is not a done deal. Chicago's school board will vote on the plan next month.
Susan Roesgen, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: OK, you've heard the controversy. Now hear the debate. We have the chief of Chicago schools going head to head with the teachers union. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Before the break we told you about the Chicago school chief's dramatic proposal to fire hundreds of teachers and principals at eight underperforming schools. Well, joining me now to defend his proposal is Chicago School Superintendent Arne Duncan and to defend the teachers Marilyn Stewart, president of the Chicago Teachers' Union. Arne, good to see you. Marilyn, good to see you. Arne, let me start with you. Why are you doing this? Why this proposal? Clearly you feel that some kind of dramatic action needs to be taken here so explain it to us.
ARNE DUNCAN, CHICAGO SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT: Sure, I'm happy to. The vast majority of schools in Chicago public schools are getting better each year. Over the past five years on the elementary side, we're improving actually at twice the rate of the state. In the high school side, A.C.T. scores are up twice the rate of the state, and three times the rate of the country. So overall, we're very, very pleased.
HARRIS: That sounds like a success story, Arne. That's what that sounds like.
DUNCAN: Exactly right but we have over 600 schools. We have big school system and when you have a handful of schools that aren't improving, that are resisting those efforts, I think we have a moral obligation not to hide behind the collective success and to deal openly and honestly with those situations where we have to do dramatically better.
HARRIS: Well, what do you mean by resisting those efforts?
DUNCAN: Well, again, when we're not seeing the progress that we're seeing across the district, we have to do something better for those children and we have to do something better now. Our children have one chance for an education. They can't wait another five years or ten years. So where things aren't working, I think we have a moral obligation to challenge the status quo, bring great talent in. We've done it the past couple of years, not at this scale but seen huge progress.
At early elementary, we saw a ten-point jump in test scores just in one year. At Sherman, we saw a seven-point increase. Harvard elementary that we started this year, we don't have any test score results but the average student there is going to school two more weeks each year. That's up dramatically.
HARRIS: Well, let me stop you there and bring Marilyn in for a second. Marilyn, you hear what Arne is saying. The problem here is that there is a resistance to the kind of change that would improve these under performing schools and the fault, the blame rests with these teachers and the administrators. So they got to go.
DUNCAN: No, sir, to be -
HARRIS: No?
DUNCAN: No, sir. We're not blaming anybody.
HARRIS: You're not?
DUNCAN: What we're saying is that talent matters and we need to bring a critical mass of great talent into those neighborhoods where children deserve the best education.
HARRIS: So if you're talking about letting go 200 teachers, you're telling me they shouldn't feel as though they're being blamed for the failings?
DUNCAN: No, there are good teachers in every single building. Teachers will be re-hired. Great teachers we hired there are elsewhere in the system. The market place pays. Great teachers will be re-hired. Teachers that aren't as good won't. I think that's healthy for the children.
HARRIS: Well, I'm sorry. If I'm one of the teachers on the list, I think I'm being singled out.
MARILYN STEWART, CHICAGO TEACHERS UNION: I'm very confused at what he's saying because the schools that I visited on Friday. These were schools, some of these schools were not on probation. I visited some of the teachers and they were -- they were dedicated and you're breaking up teams. These are teachers who are not resistant to change. They're resistant to creating instability in an already unstable neighborhood. These are teachers who are working diligently to turn around these students. We're talking about accountability. We're talking about accountability on every level from the parents, the district, the community, the teacher and the student.
HARRIS: Arne, you're not going to get this. You know, this is a bold proposal but you know this is never really fly. Don't you know that in your heart, so you made the proposal. Don't you think it's time to sort of bring both sides together and really work on solutions?
DUNCAN: I couldn't disagree with you more.
HARRIS: Do you really think you'll get this?
DUNCAN: We've been turning around under performing schools for years. The schools get dramatically better. We are absolutely committed to challenging the status quo and doing something dramatically better for children. What we're also doing this year for the first time that is very bold is we're turning around high schools in the (theatre) elementary schools, as well. The theory is simple, you can't turn around a high school if you're not improving the elementary schools and vice versa. So in a short amount of time, we're not just going to improve the educational opportunities structure for a handful of students, we're going to turn around for entire neighborhoods and do it very, very quickly.
HARRIS: Marilyn, you want in on this?
STEWART: Yes, but some of the schools for which they're sending students are only marginally better so how is that improving schools? In the past, they've sent schools -- students to schools and school -- the receiving school was not on probation and then it went on probation. The district and the union are already collaborating to turn around struggling schools and we didn't have to close those schools. So, what we're saying is you have to create an air of stability, not instability.
HARRIS: Yes, but Marilyn, let me say this to you, in the final analysis, is it about the students and my goodness, at the end of the day, if the teachers are an issue here, isn't it better to move them out, to get them to reapply for their jobs, let's get them some additional training and perhaps find a better fit for them. At the end of the day, it's about the students. And if they're not getting the education they need, then we got to, look, maybe we do need this approach.
STEWART: Look, absolutely but what you're saying, if these teachers are this awful why are you rehiring somebody that's awful? They had a school where, the school he mentioned, Sherman Elementary, 30% of those teachers that they hired are not there. So there's something with teacher retention that's missing in this effort to improve these schools. If you can't keep these talented teachers in the system, there's something wrong with that plan.
HARRIS: And, Arne, last word on this.
DUNCAN: Last word, we have one chance to give our children a great education. When we fail to do that, public school systems perpetuate poverty and perpetuate social failure. When we give our children a great education they have a lifetime of opportunity ahead of them. That's exactly what we're doing.
STEWART: Public school is not the answer the way you're doing it. HARRIS: Arne and Marilyn, let's leave it there. We'll be following this story to be sure. Thank you both.
DUNCAN: Thanks for having me.
STEWART: Thank you.
HARRIS: Senator Obama told us why he thinks he won in South Carolina. Next, we head to our bloggers to see if they agree. The left versus right, John versus Jim. Gentlemen, let's get ready to rumble.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Barack Obama's landslide win in South Carolina has bloggers on the left and right buzzing today. How much did race play a role in the race? On the left, John Aravosis from americablog.com. John, good to see you. And on the right, Jim Geraghty from national review online. Jim, good to see.
John, I'll start with you. I got a bone to pick with you today. Bill Clinton gets slammed. I know you slammed him. I know you did for his efforts to challenge Obama, correct a perceived slight to his record and defend his wife and he is criticized for playing the race card. What did he do in South Carolina that was so bad?
JOHN ARAVOSIS, AMERICABLOG.COM: Well, it depends. I think the problem -- first of all, it depends who you're talking to, which I think is interesting. I got a problem with how Bill Clinton has handled things the last couple of weeks because he's kind of gotten aggressive and I think a little mean. Having said that, I talked to some folks, some friends of mine who support Clinton who think Bill has been totally appropriate and Obama is the one whose whining. So I don't know. There have been a number of incidents with the Clinton campaign where race keeps kind of coming up, for example, today Bill Clinton brings up that hey, you know, Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice and he still didn't become president. Well, you know, John Edwards won South Carolina too previously and didn't become president. Why didn't you bring up that example? No, you had to bring up the example of the black man that a lot of white people don't like. It's subtle but look, I'm not one that finds racism behind every corner. It's not exactly my pet issue but it's been rubbing me the wrong way.
HARRIS: But, here's the thing, Jim would be honest enough to say, you know what, I'm just sick and tired of the Clintons and I wish they would just disappear and go away. Am I right about that, Jim? It seems many on the other side are just trying to come up with these issues instead of saying, you know what, I'm just sick of you and I really wish the Clintons would just go away.
JIM GERAGHTY, NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE: Look, Hillary Clinton is probably the better choice for the party that I prefer, the republican party. She's much more vulnerable in the general election. Barack Obama is probably better for the country as a whole. It's a very odd case, I have nothing to disagree with what John just said. I find it really striking that, again, of all the people he could make the comparison to it's Jesse Jackson. HARRIS: Right, right.
GERAGHTY: There's no one else ever who lost South Carolina on the democratic side and not gone on to get the nomination.
ARAVOSIS: Well, it has happened repeatedly. That's the problem. There have been a number of times wherein these black -- what was the subtle slavery reference about chucking and jiving. And that's why Jim and I were talking before the show started. It reminds me a lot of what's going on with Romney and McCain as well in the sense that McCain may be lying about Romney's foreign policy record but it makes Romney discuss foreign policy by saying you're lying about my foreign policy --
HARRIS: It puts him on turf where he's not as strong.
ARAVOSIS: Exactly. It puts you on the turf that you didn't want to get on. Obama doesn't want to talk about how I'm a black man running for president, I'm a white man running for president. No, he's a smart man running for president. But to the degree he has to say, Hillary, stop trying to play the race card, you're now talking about race.
HARRIS: Absolutely. All right. Let's listen to Barack Obama. A bit of the victory speech last night. Then I've got a question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE): The choice in this election is not between regions or religions or genders, it's not about rich versus poor, young versus old and it is not about black versus white. This, this election is about the past versus the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: All right. Jim, let me start with you on this one. How do you compete with that? I mean you're a competitor in this race. That's a guy you have to beat. You've got to bring him down, but to do that, you run the risk of being the guy who kills the dream, kills the hope and kills the aspirations of a nation. Why?
GERAGHTY: This guy is being touted as the second coming of Martin Luther King Jr. And I remember having a conversation with Howard Kurtz in this topic and said you write the expose that takes down this lovely figure. You write the expose that trashes his reputation. No, the thing is that you can go negative on Obama but you have to be careful about the way you do it. And it's a question of kind of can you see this man handling a crisis, can you see this man at a moment when everything is going terribly wrong for the country and decisions have to be made in an instant. That's where you get into the age and experience issues. You certainly cannot do anything race related.
HARRIS: John, I'm jumping here because you know I'm a competitor. I'm in this to win this and I believe my experience bests this man and how do I make that case without being, you know, pilloried here. AVAROSIS: I'm not going to tell you how to make the case because I'd like our guy to win. That's a very good point because I think to some degree this is the problem the Clintons or Hillary is facing in the race is it's hard to take on Obama when black references come up and then nobody knows were you trying to do the black thing or did you just happen to mention a black guy that, you know, you brought up in the conversation? And you're stepping on thin ice or whatever it is that you got to be careful here and that's the same problem the republicans will have with Obama. That people don't feel like they're playing the race card.
HARRIS: And just one quick question, Florida coming up on Tuesday. Jim, give me your thoughts on it.
GERAGHTY: Sure, we are about to see whether Rudy's very drastically different strategy can work. He skipped most of the previous early primaries and caucuses. It's not working great for him. I think the thing we've seen in every single race and this also applies to the democrats too. In the last couple of days, you see the voters congregate between the top two guys. Whoever is in third place tends to drop down in the last couple of days. And unfortunately, right now for Rudy, that's him. It's a possibility, it's not out -- possibility he gets 1% more than the other guys do. If there is a big surge at the end but right now it's not looking great for him. As he says he'll continue on past Florida, if he can't win Florida, he's going to have a tough time winning additional states.
HARRIS: Jim, you won't mind if I give the guy on the right the last word on the republican primary in Florida. Great to see you both. Jim, John, see you next time. Appreciate it.
And it is the only thing going so far in awards shows this year. The writers took the stage, well actually, took the night off the picket lines to let the Screen Actors' Guild hand out their trophies. We're heading to tinsel town
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Entertainment world. It's not the Oscar or the People's Choice Awards but oddly it might be the year's biggest star showcase. Tonight is the Screen Actors' Guild Awards and it is a show that will go on. CNN's Kareen Wynter is in Los Angeles. Hey, Kareen, if you would, set that scene for us and then bring in that special guest that I understand is next to you.
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: Oh, really special guest. Listen to this, Tony. It's a wild and crazy time here. On the red carpet, I want to bring in Casey Affleck. Thank you so much for joining us. We're going to do our best here to talk about the screams, but, all right, tell us about the film "The Assassination of Jesse James," the reviews, the nominations, everything. A big year for you.
CASSEY AFFLECK, ACTOR; Yes, it's been - I'm not sure I heard you entirely. Caught the title of the film. You probably want to know something about it. It was something, you know, it was something that I had wanted to do from the minute that I read the script, just because of the people involved, Andrew Dominic and Brad Pitt, Roger Deacons and, you know, people like that. You know something great - it's an opportunity to make something great. You know, it was a fantastic experience. And you know, I feel like these awards and the acting award should be shared with the director, you know so -- because nothing happens without him and so I kind of wish he was here, Andrew, but it's been -- you know, I'm really proud of the movie.
WYNTER: You're so calm. You're a new dad, first of all. Congratulations.
AFFLECK: Thanks.
WYNTER: But tell us about, you know, the nomination tonight. How are you feeling about that?
AFFLECK: Oh, it feels good. I mean, there's so many award shows these days that sometimes you don't know exactly who is voting on them, who's nominating you. Maybe it's just like a group of five people who live on some street and they have their own award show but you know, the Screen Actors' Guild is fantastic because of the people that -- there are other actors and that means something special.
WYNTER: It's also a special night because this is a first like, shouldn't be a kickoff to the award season but it is, because of what happened with the Golden Globes so a lot to look forward to. Any one in particular, any star you want to see?
AFFLECK: Any star I want to see here? I wish my wife were here.
WYNTER: Well, we have to leave it at that. Thank you so much. A pleasure talking to you. Best of luck. Tony, I wish we had another hour but I know we have to throw it back your way. So, take it away.
HARRIS: All right. All right. Kareen and again, you can see the big show tonight on our sister networks, TNT and TBS. Kareen Wynter in Los Angeles, for us. Kareen, great to see you. Nice dress.
We showed you the fires in Oklahoma but that's not the only place where storms are causing big problems. We head back to the severe weather center and Jacqui Jeras.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Wow, the wet and wild west is really dominating weather news today, but there is plenty to keep Jacqui Jeras. There she is, busy from coast to coast. Hey, Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN, METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Tony. The wet weather continues to come down and severe weather remains a threat, but we do think that threat will be diminishing now through the evening hours and we'll see less hail, less damaging winds and we'll see more of those downpours still and the threat of mudslides and landslides. We do have flash flood warnings which have been put into effect for San Bernardino county. There you can see it also for San Diego county and also in over here in Maricopa county. Much of Arizona getting in on much of this wet weather. This storm should be winding down by say midmorning tomorrow and watch for just a few weak disturbances and to move across the Pacific northwest and into California in the week ahead.
Now, there's a lot of snow on the side of the system too. Mostly measuring this in feet. Yeah, one to two feet in the Sierras as well as the Cascades up in Oregon. The Bitterroots looking for a couple of feet in the highest of elevations, a little bit lesser though down low, 5 to 10 in the Wasatch and we're looking at 1 to 3 feet. And also notice by the way, where you see these dark red areas, those are blizzard warnings. A lot of wind associated with this system.
Now, as the storm moves inland throughout the day tomorrow and it gets closer through the plains states, those winds will really be increasing. Here you saw the video that we had out of Oklahoma from earlier today. Well, a critical risk of fire danger here across western parts of that state also into Texas and into parts of Kansas. We also have a little something going on across the northeast. We have a coastal storm and it's predominantly just affecting the Cape here. We do think you'll get a little bit of snow in Boston but it won't be a big deal for you. It will be people out there in Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, also towards Plymouth where we can see wind gusts as strong as 60 miles per hour. That storm pretty much missing the megalopolis though. Look at that though as it heads on up towards Nova Scotia. This was one of those type of situations there, Tony.
HARRIS: Yes. Coast to coast to be sure. Boy, did we cover your neighborhood? Thank you, Jacqui.
Well, there she is, Miss America, the newly crowned winner talked with our Robin Meade and that's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Oscar, stop pretending and do some real work.
You know, we were so flushed with political primary fever last night that we almost missed it when the nation's less other democratic but still vitally important contest reached it's suspenseful apex.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss Michigan, Kirsten Haglund.
HARRIS: Well, there you go. There she is, smiles and tears and high heels and evening gowns, it's Miss America. And that is 19-year-old Kirsten Haglund accepting the tiara and sash and the heavy responsibility, the title holds. Miss America told CNN's Robin Meade she had one person in mind throughout the pageant.
KIRSTEN HAGLUND, MISS AMERICA: My grandma, absolutely. My grandmother was Miss Michigan in 1944. She went to Miss America, Venus Ramie, Miss D.C., was crowned. D.C. was my roommate this year but she's here in the audience. I'm so glad she could be here. All of my friends and family but she was the first one. ROBIN MEADE, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: So backstage now after we just watched her get in the car and go to her first press conference as Miss America. We talked to her beforehand. She says she's going to promote her platform about eating disorders, something she'll talk about all year. That's what Miss Americas do during their year of service. But I asked her, what are you nervous about this year and here's what she said.
HAGLUND: I just want to be the very best Miss America that I can be and uphold the - what this organization represents which is class, which is dignity and character. And it has been around for 86, 87 years but we're bringing that modern twist with it this year. So, I want to keep the class in the organization.
MEADE: You know, I thought I would give you a taste of a traditional conference. Her first press conference as Miss America. Non traditional is the format of the forecast. Maybe if you watched it, it was more of a reality show format. With the eliminated contestants remaining on stage. All an effort to give out a hip new image. I hope that she is fit to traveling because she starts a year of traveling tomorrow and makes you wonder why the heck is Robin Meade in a gown? It's because I judged the Miss American pageant this year. I hope you're happy with our choice. I'm Robin Meade for CNN in Vegas.
HARRIS: OK. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center. NEWSROOM returns tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern but right now stay tuned for CNN's "Special Investigations Unit."
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