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Britney Hospitalized Again at Psychiatrist`s Request/Body Parts Found Along Pennsylvania Highway

Aired January 31, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. Music superstar Britney Spears`s alleged string of wild and erratic behavior -- has it cost her custody, and now even visitation with her two toddler boys? A police convoy the length of a football field escorts the 26-year-old mom, once again strapped to a gurney, to UCLA`s Medical Center, where tonight she`s on a medical evaluation hold. Well, just weeks ago, Spears rushed to the ER after a custody stand-off at her own LA home. That late night drama and an emergency court hearing ended in Spears losing all and any visitation rights for her two little boys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news. Troubled pop star Britney Spears is back in the hospital. Los Angeles police tell CNN they responded to Spears`s home and transported her to a local hospital. She was apparently physically removed and taken by ambulance. You can see the video there. "The Los Angeles Times" is reporting Spears is being held on a 72-hour mental health evaluation at UCLA Medical Center. The paper is also reporting all of this was prompted by a call from her psychiatrist. This is the second time Spears has been taken from her home and hospitalized on a mental health hold in just a month.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does it hurt you in a child custody case if you had to be treated for a diagnosed mental illness? Does that affect whether or not you`ll ever be able to be with your kids?


GRACE: And tonight, live to the luxury resort destination, the Poconos. The police discover a real-life Dexter (ph) at work, dismembered body parts found in eight separate garbage bags, still unidentified.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say bags of body parts were found at seven other sites along Interstates 380 and 80. They believe the body parts belong to one light-skinned female.


GRACE: Also tonight: Is there a break in the case of missing American teenage beauty Natalee Holloway? The 19-year-old vanished on her class trip to Aruba. A Dutch reporter claims months of high-tech secret surveillance will crack the case and prove what happened the night Natalee Holloway disappeared.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors in Aruba say they`re investigating new clues in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. I know we`ve heard this before, but listen to this. They say they have new evidence from a Dutch crime reporter, and the information may help resolve what happened to the Alabama teen, which was one of the biggest mysteries in this whole thing. The prosecutor`s office in Aruba says it is now intensifying its probe. Holloway disappeared while on a trip to Aruba back in May of 2005. A Dutch teen and two others were arrested and released a number of times. Prosecutors dismissed their case, though, against all three last month. They say there wasn`t enough evidence to charge them.


GRACE: Also tonight: Galveston, Texas, the manhunt for a 21-year-old father intensifies after his tiny 3-month-old baby boy wearing nothing but a diaper is found dead by the side of an isolated boulevard, a carseat not far from the baby`s body. Was the little baby thrown out of a car? Tonight, police tracking Travis Mullis, the baby`s own father.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see the outline, the scene of the crime. It`s an area on Galveston Island where someone discarded a child`s body. He was wearing only a diaper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve never seen nothing like this! Oh, my God, it`s a baby! God!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby was found lying face down on Galveston`s east end. Autopsy results show the child died of massive head trauma. Authorities tell Eyewitness News the baby did not from the impact of hitting the ground. Father, 21-year-old Travis Mullis, lived in this trailer in Alvin. The man who says he lives in the trailer says the couple was homeless, jobless and had no money. He says Mullis took off with the baby about 6:30. Mullis has not been seen since.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight: Britney Spears reportedly back in a mental ward. What does that mean for custody of her two toddler boys?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right around 1:00, more than a dozen officers, most of them on motorcycles, several cruisers and the rescue ambulance came in through the front gate. They were in there for about 10 minutes before on the radio, you could hear, The package is on the way out, and then, Go, go, go and secure (ph) the gate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is happening is she`s been put in for a 72- hour evaluation hold. There are several rights that she has. She can have visitors. She can refuse medication, which is an important thing. She can wear her own clothes. She can write to people. She can refuse to have her picture ID taken. But right now, she`s being evaluated. It`s (INAUDIBLE) thorough evaluation. It`s a complete psychiatric evaluation. There`s a full interview. There`s lab work. And after that, the next thing that`s going to happen is they`re going to determine whether or not the legal criteria is met to have her held for another 14 days. It is possible that she will be held, that a judge will determine she`s a danger to herself or to others, or a medical professional will determine that, and we may see her get the help that she needs, which I think, in my view, could be helpful to having her get some sort of visitation or limited custody of her children.


GRACE: Or does it mean the end of any custody or even visitation for Britney Spears, reportedly once again in a mental ward. And what does it mean, "durable power of attorney," "power of attorney"? Not only are her custody rights in question, but her entire estate, amassed over years since she was a teen star in the hands of someone else?

Out to Kareen Wynter, CNN correspondent. What happened?

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, it was deja vu all over again. In fact, when I got the call this morning at 1:00 o`clock that this was breaking and that we needed to head out to UCLA Medical Center, I had to check the calendar. It felt like January 3 all over again, when Spears was initially hospitalized earlier this month.

Well, what we`ve been able to learn -- and we`ve just gotten so little information all day long. Lynne Spears, by the way, told some of the paparazzi that her daughter was resting at the medical center. Nothing from hospital officials, but TMZ has been reporting that it was her psychiatrist who staged this dramatic intervention, that things had gotten so bad that something had to be done, and that he even went as far as working with local law enforcement officials to orchestrate getting them in there. We saw the chaos that happened the last time, and the paparazzi right on her heels, following her on the gurney, following her as she was transported to the hospital, and that they did not want this the second time around.

And so they worked with police, and you saw what happened. It was a smoother transition to the hospital, where we believe she`s getting the help that she needs in the form of mental evaluation, Nancy.

GRACE: Also with us, Ian Drew, editor-at-large with "US Weekly." Ian, the paparazzi are constantly camped out right there in her driveway, right outside her home. In fact, police have been there on numerous occasions over the last few weeks just to make them go away. That`s enough to put anybody in the nut ward!

IAN DREW, "US WEEKLY": Exactly. And it`s gone on for years. This is the thing. I mean, this is, like, over 10 years of this. And not only that, she`s invited them in. It was a Pandora`s box. She worked with them in the beginning. She sold photos of herself continually, all through her marriages and her children, and up until most recently was dating one. So she`s let these people into her life, into her home, and it just gets worse and worse and worse. But we now see this is not the action of someone who`s mentally sound.

GRACE: You`re watching video from TMZ that broke the story today.

Back out to Kareen Wynter. Tell me where she is exactly. Is the family supporting her or being cooperative? What are the circumstances surrounding her going back into, reportedly, a mental ward today? Was her family supporting her? Were they against it? What happened?

WYNTER: To be honest with you, Nancy, we`re not inside Britney`s world, her camp. But it`s this Sam Lufti, this manager/friend that`s been by her side constantly in the last several months. He`s really the closest thing to Britney. He`s calling the shots. We see him accompanying her to court when she has her hearings. And so we believe that he`s the one who actually worked, perhaps, with her psychiatrist to get things going here.

We`ve seen Britney Spears with the paparazzo who is allegedly her boyfriend. And he hasn`t been happy about that relationship. But regarding the mom, Lynne Spears, she came back into the picture. Interestingly enough, earlier this week, we saw her come in. And you know, Britney Spears and her mom, they`ve had a very strange relationship. You know, one report will say it`s back on, another report that it`s struggling (ph). But anyways, they have reportedly been battling it out, Nancy. That`s why Sam and Lynne Spears -- but we`re told that Sam is the one that really, really worked to get Britney Spears back to the hospital.

GRACE: I wonder what`s going to happen to her estate while she is in, reportedly, a mental ward, talk of a power of attorney or a durable power of attorney given to someone else while she is in the hospital. What does that mean to all those millions she has amassed?

Out to the lines. Leeann in Wisconsin. Hi, Leeann.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, why have they let this poor girl go into this downward spiral for so long? And can they possibly ticket the paparazzi for harassment? I mean, it just seems like this poor girl can`t get away from them, and she`s going into this downward spiral.

GRACE: Well, that`s an interesting thing, Leeann, because -- to Ian Drew with "US Weekly" -- Ian, I understand that several paparazzi were ticketed for reckless driving just recently.

DREW: Yes. I mean, the cops can only do so much, especially with the laws. But again, I need to stress Britney`s someone who`s let these people in. She used to tip them off...

GRACE: Ian, that is...

DREW: ... where she was going...

GRACE: ... no excuse for them following her so closely at dangerous speeds and switching lanes, to the point where police actually pulled the paparazzi over and gave them tickets. Do I have to say Princess Diana, Ian, for you to sit up and pay attention to what is happening to Spears? Yes, she`s dating a paparazzi. So what? Does that mean she should be tracked down like a dog everywhere she goes? I don`t think so.

To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author. What`s happening, Bethany?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I`ve got to stick up for Ian here because I think it`s easy to find villains in this story -- the mother, Sam Lufti or the paparazzi. But for all we know, if she has a dual diagnosis condition, which is bipolar with substance abuse, the paparazzi may have become her support system because you think of bipolar -- there`s hypersexuality, impulsivity, racing thoughts, mania, difficulty sleeping. And my understanding is she leaves the house at all hours, goes and drives, comes back home. There`s no true errands being run, so there`s kind of a restlessness that you see even with a -- either with a speed-based drug use or the hypomanic portion of a bipolar illness. But I think she may be using the paparazzi as, like, a false support structure, and that has to be replaced by the support structure of the hospital, like an inpatient psychiatric setting where she can get a full evaluation.

GRACE: Bethany, you mentioned bipolar and you mentioned various -- the possibility she`s using various drugs. PS, everyone. You are watching the video from Hollywood.TV.

Bethany, she`s under a 5150 hold. Explain.

MARSHALL: Well, what that is is an involuntary 72-hour hold. A police officer, a psychiatrist, anyone can call 911, have the police come over, evaluate her. She`s held involuntarily until she`s deemed that she`s no longer a danger to herself or others. She can be released prior to the ending of the 72 hours if she demonstrates good mental health.

GRACE: Wait. I don`t understand something, Bethany. If this had been planned for at least a day, this was not -- her going to the hospital today is not the result of some emergency. This was a planned trip to the hospital. So how can that be involuntary?

MARSHALL: Well, this is interesting because you mentioned staged intervention. I would imagine that her psychiatrist knew that he was going to have to call 911 or the police, and he put some careful planning in place so that it wouldn`t so chaotic and so she wouldn`t be compromised. But nonetheless, once she gets to the hospital, the treating psychiatrist or M.D. can place her on an involuntary hold if she is deemed a danger to herself or others. And at that point, there is nothing she can do, or the family or anyone else.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Ryan in North Carolina. Hi, Ryan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. I got a question. I`m on a cell phone.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name`s Ryan O`Donovan. And I want to ask you a question. Who pays? Do taxpayers pay for all this? I mean...

GRACE: Excellent question. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, do taxpayers have to pay for this?

MARSHALL: Well, no. I mean, let`s say if you have insurance -- taxpayers could ultimately pay for it if you`re destitute and you have no resources. But then you get shipped off to County or someplace where they have those kind of county beds available. If you have resources or a good insurance policy, they are going to take that insurance and you are going be billed after the stay.

GRACE: The only thing, at this point, I can see the taxpayers being stuck with regarding the bill is the police entourage the length of a football field. That`s more than the president gets when he comes to New York. Britney Spears had police protection the length of a football field.

Let`s unleash the lawyers -- Susan Moss, New York, Joey Jackson, New York, Randy Zelin also joining us from New York. Susan Moss, weigh in.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: For Brit, this is the best thing since the creation of the wig. This is just what she needs. She needs to go in and get the help. If she is bipolar, then she needs to be put on medication and she needs to be carefully monitored. That`s the only chance she has of getting back access to see her children. This judge has been put in the position that for the best interests of the children, he cannot let her have access to these kids.

GRACE: To Joey Jackson. Address the issue of power of attorney.

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure, Nancy. Well, initially, we have to say this. The power of attorney is simply a document which a principal, in this case Britney Spears, can give to an agent. Now, what happens, Nancy, is this. When you give somebody power of attorney, they act as your agent for all purposes.

Now, before you mentioned the distinction between durable and non- durable power of attorney. What a durable power of attorney means is that it survives any disability or mental illness you have. As long as you`re competent at the time that you execute that document, as long as Britney Spears is competent at the time she executes it, the person who`s her agent can, in fact, have influence over all of her financial transactions and everything else. Now, a non-durable power of attorney, Nancy, I don`t think would be applicable here because that simply applies usually for things that are specific transactions -- a limited real estate transaction. Once that`s done, it`s over. So finally, you know, that`s pretty much what it is.

GRACE: Right. To Randy Zelin. Let`s follow up on something Joey Jackson just stated: You have to be competent to sign a power of attorney. If she`s being put in the hospital, reportedly the mental ward on an involuntary hold, a 5150, then how can you say the power of attorney is written when she`s competent?

RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what happens is, if it was written before she`s now been put into the hospital, if it`s durable, it`s going to survive any decision that she`s no longer competent.

GRACE: Well put. Randy Zelin, Joey Jackson, Susan Moss.

Right now, we want to break in very quickly and go out to Pennsylvania, seemingly, real-life Dexter (ph) at work, body parts found in eight separate trash bags in the luxury resort area of the Poconos.

Let`s go straight out to Rupa Mikkilineni. Rupa, what`s happening?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I am standing out here in front of I-80 in the luxury resort area of the Pocono Mountains. And essentially, we`re talking about eight trash bags found, a woman`s body parts found in these eight separate trash bags. Actually, we`re standing in the area where one of these trash bags was found.

Now, the identity of the woman is still a mystery, but here`s what we do know. She stands approximately -- she stood approximately 5-foot, 7- inches tall, a heavyset woman, approximately in her late 20s or early 30s, and had dark hair with a little bit of gray streaks.

Now, the other thing that we know is that an autopsy was done yesterday, and according to the autopsy results, we know that she had been dead at least for four days prior to this autopsy.

GRACE: Rupa Mikkilineni joining us there in the Poconos, a luxury resort area. Rupa, where exactly were the bags found? Were they in plain sight, just thrown by the road, or were they hidden?

MIKKILINENI: They were not hidden. And in fact, this is a point that the police were making. They were in plain sight, strewn along the side of the highway. And we`re talking about a 10 to 20-mile stretch of highway, Nancy.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is an involuntary commitment. One of three things can happen after the 72-hour hold. One is that she can be released, determined that she`s not a danger to herself or others. I don`t think that`s going to happen. The second thing is another hold, another 14-day hold. Or lastly, the status changes from involuntary to voluntary. That`s the best case scenario, that Britney decides, I need help. I need help. And that`s going to bode well, if she makes that decision, for her child custody case.


GRACE: It`s going to be a tough sell to any judge to give custody or visitation back to a mom who has been admitted to, reportedly, a mental ward twice.

To Dr. Daniel Spitz, medical examiner, joining us out of Michigan. Dr. Spitz, she told police that she was on Adderal. What is that?

DR. DANIEL SPITZ, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Adderal is a stimulant. It`s an amphetamine. Generally, it`s part of medications that are used for weight loss. And it raises the question, along with laxative use, which I`m aware that she was doing, that she`s doing...

GRACE: Ten laxatives a day.

SPITZ: ... some extreme measures.

GRACE: Ten laxatives a day.

SPITZ: Certainly raises the question that she`s having some serious issues with trying to get her weight under control and taking some extreme measures.

GRACE: What does it mean, Bethany?

MARSHALL: ... wondering if she has been put on bipolar meds, they weren`t successful in treating her symptoms, she wasn`t complying with treatment, so she has been abusing her own bipolar meds because sometimes with bipolar, you have attentional difficulties, which Adderal is designed to address. But sometimes people actually abuse that drug instead of using it how it`s supposed to be used.

GRACE: To Sandra in Maryland. Hi, Sandra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, there. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, this seems to be a horrible tragedy in the making. And why is this woman and other celebrities not protected by stalking laws, the way the rest of us are?

GRACE: You know, interesting. Out to Randy Zelin. When we say she`s not protected by stalking laws, explain how that would relate to the paparazzi.

ZELIN: Well, I think the primary different is the intent of the following. When you think of stalking, you think of someone who`s got evil intent to hurt somebody. The paparazzi, whether you agree with them or you don`t, they`re doing a job. You could almost argue they have a legitimate purpose.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Britney Spears is back into the hospital. We`ve been down this road before. And what we`re hearing from law enforcement officials is that this was something that was actually in the works for the better part of the day yesterday, that this was reportedly an intervention staged by none other than her psychiatrist, that things had gotten so bad with Britney Spears that they just had to intervene to get her the help that she needs.


GRACE: Straight out to Ian Drew with "US Weekly." Ian, what is your understanding of what went down today?

DREW: Well, basically, all the reports are right. I mean, this was a staged thing. This was something that was meant to happen. And Lynne actually left the hospital today. Britney actually spent time sleeping because she`d been up three days, had not gotten any sleep, which exacerbated the whole problem. And the family showed up. They had been planning this since the last time she was in the hospital, and they finally were able to do this. And it`s something they`ve been wanting to do for a very long time, and they`re hoping that this isn`t the end and that this doesn`t result in a tragedy.

GRACE: To Matthew in Florida. Hi, Matthew. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. I just wanted to say it seems like she`s surrounded by parasites, and you would think that there would be one person, a family or friend that cares enough about her to try to straighten her out.

GRACE: Bethany, what about it, the people that are surrounding her?

MARSHALL: You know, it`s very hard to tell. Probably some people are parasites and some aren`t. Some are villains, some aren`t. But when someone has a severe psychiatric syndrome and it`s compounded by drug use, if that is what it is, sometimes it`s very hard to get them to see that they need treatment It`s not like the typical addict, where you say they hit bottom. They just need to see they need help.

GRACE: When we come back: Is there a break in the Natalee Holloway case? The Aruban government once again ramps up the investigation.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say bags of body parts were found at seven other sites along Interstates-380 and 80 forming what appeared to be a loop. Right now, investigators say they believe the body parts belong to one light-skinned female. Monroe County`s district attorney David Christine says he watched as officers recovered a head from the side of Interstate 380.

The body parts have been taken to Lehigh Valley for an autopsy to confirm the sex of the victim, when the victim died, and to see if any forensic evidence was left behind by the killer. Police aren`t saying if anything else was found inside the trash bags. A homicide investigation is being conducted by the Pennsylvania state police Swift Water. Investigators are asking for the public`s help on this one saying if anyone saw a motorist throwing trash bags from a vehicle recently to give them a call.


GRACE: Before we take you to Aruba and what could be a crack in the case of Natalee Holloway, the missing teenage girl from Alabama, let`s go straight out to the Rupa Mikkilineni, standing by the luxury resort area, the Poconos. A real-life Dexter seemingly at work in the Poconos. Eight different trash bags of body parts found strung along the highway.

Rupa, question, what were the body parts?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the police won`t get into details about the actual body parts that they are still missing, that they are searching for, which, of course, they spent most of today and yesterday searching extensively. Approximately 45 square miles aground they covered actually in the last two days. That being said, the body parts already discovered in these eight trash bags. One is the head and the torso.

GRACE: Rupa, I understand an autopsy has been conducted? What did it reveal?

MIKKILINENI: It reveals several things, Nancy. First of all, the manner of death is being characterized as a homicide, while the cause of death is being characterized as multiple violent injuries. Now the police won`t get into the details or specifics exactly what caused those injuries or what those injuries are. They said they have told something back in their investigation.

GRACE: How large is the search effort?

MIKKILINENI: Now we also know that the body -- approximately 50 (INAUDIBLE) are involved. We`re talking about state troopers here, Pennsylvania state troopers, volunteer firefighters in the area. That`s who`s out today.

GRACE: I understand that.

MIKKILINENI: Now we`re also talking about a search that included.

GRACE: I understand that they are including police, fire, canine units, helicopters and ATVs to crack the case. Body parts found near a luxury resort. Eight separate trash bags, Rupa. Is that true, canine units as well?

MIKKILINENI: That is true. Canine units and cadaver dogs were used today.

GRACE: Rupa Mikkilineni standing by.

MIKKILINENI: Now they didn`t find any body part.

GRACE: Sorry, guys, I keep losing Rupa. Rupa`s standing by there in the latest regarding eight separate trash bags of body parts. As soon as we hear more, we`ll bring you up to date.

Right now to Aruba. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could we soon know what really happened to Natalee Holloway? A judge crime reporter has given prosecutors brand new evidence. New info coming from Dutch crime reporter Peter de Vries, the same reporter who had Joran Van der Sloot threw a glass of wine in his face after a recent interview.

Van der Sloot`s attorneys says the Aruban prosecutors have gone down this road before and found nothing, while Aruban prosecutors say they have intensified the investigation to finally determined what happened to Natalee Holloway.


GRACE: Is there finally a -- crack in the case of missing Alabama girl, Natalee Holloway.

Straight out to "America`s Most Wanted" Jon Leiberman.

Jon, what`s happening?

JON LEIBERMAN, CORRESPONDENT, AMERICA`S MOST WANTED: Well, Nancy, this journalist says that he has the case solved. He says he used undercover methods, undercover cameras, and that he knows the mode of how Natalee Holloway was killed and how her body was disposed of.

But look, we`ve been down this road before. We were actually with the Holloways down in Aruba searching for Natalee. There`ve been a lot of ups and downs. On its surface, this looks like a major development if it is indeed true that this is solved.

GRACE: Well, what do you believe it is, Jon?

LEIBERMAN: Well, you know, what leads me to believe that there is something significant here. Two things. One, Natalee Holloway`s mother did indeed go and meet with this journalist and she seems to be condoning what he`s doing. And number two, the prosecutors issued a statement today saying that there is major progress in this investigation and that it will be revealed Sunday night on Dutch television.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the managing director of "Diario" magazine there in Aruba, Jossy Mansur is joining us.

Jossy, it`s great to talk to you again. What can you tell us about these developments?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING DIR., DIARIO: Well, you know, we`re very interested, very excited about this news. This is unexpected. Now De Vries claims that he has videos obtained with an undercover camera operation that he conducted over a month and a half or two months and that he showed this to the prosecution in Aruba last week, probably gave them a copy also. And the prosecution is very upbeat with this.

GRACE: Out to Jon Leiberman with "America`s Most Wanted," how long do you believe this secret surveillance lasted and who was being surveilled?

LEIBERMAN: We`re being told that this was several months of undercover tape, hours and hours of tape. It`s unclear exactly who was under surveillance. But what`s interesting here is the surveillance, it appears, only took place within about the past year, which was two years since Natalee actually went missing. It will be very interesting to see what the smoking gun is here.

GRACE: So you`re saying the surveillance took place during the last year, this past year?

LEIBERMAN: That`s what it appears at this point, yes. And that`s what makes it a little less intriguing is that it didn`t start right around the time that Natalee went missing from what we`re hearing.

GRACE: Tell us what some type of conversations that may have been conducted between the three prime suspects.

Out to the lines Barbara in New Hampshire. Hi, Barbara.

BARBARA, FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations.

GRACE: Thank you.

BARBARA: You look beautiful.

GRACE: Thank you.

BARBARA: I just want to say I feel bad for the parents to have this all brought up again after last month.

GRACE: You know, to Bethany Marshall, it is, it`s such a roller coaster for Natalee`s parents. But of course, if there`s a chance to crack the case, what do you think?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR, "DEALBREAKERS": I think they`re motivated to crack this case and to see justice served. But I think probably they`re maintaining their sanity by getting a certain amount of distance from all the breaking stories and so instead of being so close to it, they have to be a little bit more distant.

GRACE: Joining us is Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers, former member of the FBI. Detective Rogers, question, what can a reporter do that the police can`t do?

DET. LT. STEVE ROGERS, NUTLEY NJ POLICE DEPT., FMR. MEMBER OF FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: I`ll tell you, Nancy, I`m puzzled over this whole situation with the Aruba police down there. Here you have a reporter conducting an investigation without the police working with them. Then you have the police coming out saying that they`ve got new evidence before seeing if it`s credible, before seeing if there`s any connection to their investigation. So I think they`ve got to, you know, connect some more dots and see where they`re going to go from here.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Susan Moss, Joey Jackson and Randy Zellin.

Susan, the reality is, the constitution protects you from the police, from the state, from prosecutors, from agents of the state. But it doesn`t protect you from blabbing to reporters even if they`re undercover.

SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. The question is, when these conversations were recorded, did this guy have an expectation of privacy? Was he speaking to a clergy member? Was he speaking to his lawyer or something of that sort?

If he did not, then this stuff is probably going to go in because these reporters are not agents of the law enforcement.

GRACE: Agree or disagree, Zellin?

RANDY ZELLIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the big issue is that it`s a brilliant tactic on the police law enforcement part because these guys is ostensibly, if they are the same targets, they have lawyers. So law enforcement can`t deal directly with them because they`re lawyered up. So use private people.

GRACE: But there is no indication, Joey Jackson, that police asked.


GRACE: .the journalist to do this, therefore, the journalist is not a state agent and therefore.


GRACE: .no constitutional limits would apply.

JACKSON: Well, you know what? In a limited sense, Nancy, and here`s why, because we all have expectations of privacy. The issues are going to be, where was this surveillance taken? Was it taken at a location where we don`t have expectations of privacy? There have been some reports that indicate that they actually went into the home and they did surveillance there. That certainly is something that would cause pause for the admissibility of any type of surveillance.

GRACE: Everyone, when we come back, a 3-month-old baby boy found dead, thrown to the side of the road. Why?

Also tonight, APB, all points bulletin for special moms and dads. If you know one who`s an inspiration to others, get your camcorder and go to, click on "i-Report" and enter that mom or dad in the "Extraordinary Parent Contest."




UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I can`t believe this. Somebody would do something like this.


UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: Oh my god. It`s a baby.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Can you get next to the baby? Or is it down there?

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I`m going to it now. (INAUDIBLE) because I have never seen nothing like this before. Oh my god. It`s a baby. God.


UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: Someone (INAUDIBLE) here. Why would somebody do this?

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Headquarters station two. Need en route to Cherry Hill, first and (INAUDIBLE) Cherry Hill, first responder on a possible DOA.


GRACE: The police on high alert looking for 21-year-old Travis Mullis, T.J.Mullis, the father of the little boy. But tonight we learn there`s a felony arrest warrant for him that has nothing to do with the death of his baby. Also why is mom lawyered up.

Let`s go straight out to Jon Leiberman with "America`s Most Wanted." What`s the latest?

LEIBERMAN: Nancy, in the past hour and half, police have issued an arrest warrant unrelated to this case. In the process of investigating the death of this little baby, police found something in Travis`s home, excuse me, home, that made them issue an arrest warrant for him for a third-degree felony of enticing a child. We`re unclear about the details of that case except it was clearly a different child than his son.

GRACE: To Susan Moss, in a nutshell, what is enticing a child?

MOSS: Well, unfortunately, what it could mean is doing some sort of activity to get the child to do something either of a sexual nature or other inappropriate nature. It just isn`t good.

GRACE: And we also know that this is a result of the search on the home following the discovery of the baby boy.

Straight back out to Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio. Weigh in, Michael. What more can you tell us?

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: Well, we`ve learned a lot, Nancy, by reading the page on one of these Internet dating sites that she and T.J. were part of. You know, a lot of details we`re learning about this as you searched through this. One of this -- it was a post that she made on this Web site. This was the 29th of December last year, talking about apparently there`s some sort of argument between her and T.J. saying that she didn`t like the way he was acting. He was apparently not friendly towards the baby, just hints, little things we`re finding out that there may have been past problems in this relationship.

GRACE: So Bethany, how can you not be friendly to a little baby? I mean, what, the baby is having an argument with you? How can you not be friendly with a baby?

MARSHALL: As hard as it is for us to understand, parents who abuse their children often think that the child is unconditionally bad. Even if it`s just that the baby is crying. And when the child is murdered at the hands of a parent, usually with the man, it`s physical abuse and with the mom, it is neglect. And it follows an argument sometimes the man does to the child what he feels the wife is doing to him as sick and perverted that is. You stabbed me in the heart, I`m going to stab the baby in the heart. You are taking away everything that`s precious from here, I`m going to take away your child. You`re throwing me out like trash, I`m going to throw the baby out like trash.

So in a case like this, the symbolism of how the child is treated is very important.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Rosemary in Indiana. Hi, Rosemary.

ROSEMARY: Hi, Nancy. I`m so excited. Love you, love your show.

GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

ROSEMARY: I`d like to know why haven`t they shown any pictures of the mother or focus more on whether she could be in on this or not?

GRACE: Jon Leiberman, why?

LEIBERMAN: Well, that`s a great question. Police today told us that now she is being uncooperative with police and as you mentioned, Nancy, she has now lawyered up as well. She left out some key facts when she first talked to police, including the fact that her boyfriend, the father of this little boy, had dyed his hair blond recently which is a major clue in our business for tracking down fugitives.

GRACE: We are waiting to confirm the I.D. of the baby first before that is announced.

I want to go to Lieutenant Jorje Trevino, public information officer with the Galveston Police Department.

Lieutenant, thank you for being with us. Since the baby`s face and head were so hurt in its death, how can you identify a baby?

LT. JORGE TREVINO, PIO, GALVESTON POLICE DEPT: Yes, the size -- there were serious injuries to the baby`s head, but there was -- one side of the face was not damaged or not damaged so badly that we couldn`t make -- that we didn`t recognize that as the same baby.

GRACE: To Daniel Spitz, Dr. Daniel Spitz, are footprints used for babies like fingerprints are used for adults?

DR. DANIEL SPITZ, MEDICAL EXAMINER AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes. Obviously, you can`t use fingerprints for a child. But everybody knows, when you have a baby in the hospital, they do a footprint. And if you have an idea who the baby is, you can take a footprint from the child and make a comparison using the hospital record.

GRACE: So Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers, with the Nutley New Jersey Police Department, former fed with the FBI, Detective, how can you go back and create the timeline to determine who was with the baby at the time of death if the mom has lawyered up and is no longer cooperating?

ROGERS: Well, what they`re going to do is interview family members, they`re going to interview neighbors, they`re going to interview friends. So that`s how they`re going to focus in on the timeline. And of course, having an attorney now is going to be a big problem for the police to overcome.

GRACE: To Brenda in Alabama. Hi, Brenda.

BRENDA, FROM ALABAMA: Hi, Nancy. Welcome to the wonderful world of motherhood and the ability and opportunity to love like you never have before.

GRACE: Man, you can say that again, Brenda. I`ve never seen anything like it.

BRENDA: I know.

GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

BRENDA: I wanted to know if anyone has noticed in the photograph of this baby, the right eye has an injury.

GRACE: Take a look at this, Doctor, Doctor Spitz. What do you see?

SPITZ: You know, I can`t. I don`t have the ability to see that. But I know the child had severe head injuries. And the question is whether his head injuries were from, you know, inflicted trauma at a different location or whether the baby may have been thrown from a moving vehicle, I think. Looking at the injuries, the medical examiner shouldn`t have much trouble in making a determination as to how the injuries were inflicted.

GRACE: Dr. Spitz, we`ll get the photo for you to see and take a careful look at it like Brenda in Alabama has.

To Christy in Indiana. Hi, Christy. Christy, are you with me?


GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

CHRISTY: I was wondering how could somebody just throw a baby on the road? I mean did they not care for this baby or was there something that the baby was sick or something?

GRACE: To Bethany Marshall, there is something very symbolic and tragic about just tossing the baby out like it`s trash.

MARSHALL: I agree. And when I read the report, it`s almost like he took the car seat and went, (makes sound), and just sort of jammed it down on the ground and the baby went flying out. What I can say for sure is he didn`t do it because he had killed the baby and he wanted to then conceal the crime. This wasn`t sort of a sleazy act of self-protection. There was a true rage attack and perhaps on some perverse level, even some enjoyment at inflicting further harm upon this poor innocent little baby.



UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: No. The baby looks dead. I`m walking uphill and I can see a baby face down here and it`s got a blue diaper on. I ain`t never seen nothing like this before. Oh it`s horrible. God it`s horrible. Oh holy God lady.


GRACE: A 3-month-old baby boy found thrown to the side of the road wearing nothing but a Blues` Clues diaper, thrown out with his car seat.

To Susan in Canada. Hi, Susan.

SUSAN, FROM CANADA: Hi, Nancy. I`m calling from Canada and I`m by far your biggest fan. My comment is there is no way one person could have done this by themselves. You know how heavy these car seats are, plus the baby inside. So it`s just a comment and I`m wanting to know what you think about that.

GRACE: What about it, Jon Leiberman?

LEIBERMAN: I don`t know. It`s quite possible one person could have done it. The blunt force trauma to the baby`s head and then, you know, you throw the car set out the window. It is pretty possible that one person could have done it and right now police believe that person is the baby`s father.

GRACE: To Lieutenant Trevino, Lieutenant, where are you searching for this guy?

TREVINO: We are -- we have police officers, ma`am, all over the state of Texas and surrounding states, and we`re hoping now nationwide on the lookout for this car, for this person. And now with the warrant of arrest, you know, they have all the power in the world to place him under arrest and contact us. So all over.

GRACE: Very quickly, Michael Board, WOAI Newsradio, isn`t his hair now dyed blond?

BOARD: That`s what we learned and it`s something we learned late in the investigation. When the investigators initially talked to the mother of this child, she gave him.

GRACE: Right.

BOARD: She gave investigators some information. But then later she said, oh yes, by the way, he may have dyed his hair blonde, which is something kind of odd. You know, you would think you`d tell that right away so you kind of wonder why, you know, she waited around a while to actually release the information.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop to remember Army Private Adam Muller, 21, Vermont, killed in Iraq. Gone up with the 10th Mountain Division, arrived in Iraq just after Labor Day. He leaves behind a wonderful family. He`s survived by parents and wife of 11 months.

Adam Muller, American hero.

Thank you to all of our guests, but especially to you for inviting us into your home. A special birthday wish to a Miami friend of the show. Happy birthday, Dolores, and many more.

See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.