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Joran Submits to Questioning by Aruban Investigators in Holland

Aired February 7, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. It was a case that could not be cracked. For three long years, Aruban police claimed they couldn`t make a case against the former judge`s son, Joran Van Der Sloot. But tonight, a reporter does what the entire Aruban government couldn`t or wouldn`t do, crack the case of 18-year-old Alabama girl Natalee Holloway, missing from her high school senior trip to Aruba, 2005.
Well, months of high-tech secret surveillance solves the mystery, and it proves what happened the night Holloway disappeared. After a stunning confession caught on video, as we go to air tonight, investigators grilling former judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot, last seen with Natalee Holloway. Was Holloway thrown into the choppy ocean waters late that night still alive? Why is an Aruban judge refusing to sign an arrest warrant?

And tonight, exclusive, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway`s father is with us live, along with the man who brainstormed the plan to finally crack this case, Peter De Vries.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The young man at the center of Natalee Holloway`s disappearance is meeting with investigators in the Netherlands. Joran Van Der Sloot`s lawyer said his client will answer any questions about the Alabama teenager`s disappearance. The new inquiry comes after Dutch television aired tapes of Van Der Sloot talking about the circumstances surrounding Holloway`s disappearance. Aruban prosecutors are waiting for a three-judge panel to decide if they can re-arrest Van Der Sloot based on what he said on those secretly recorded tapes.


GRACE: And tonight, Amber Alert, Austin, Texas, a 5-year-old little boy kidnapped out of the family car, the children en route to school. Tonight, where is 5-year-old Adrian?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news. An Amber Alert still in effect for 5-year-old Adrian Jaimes, abducted from this northeast Austin neighborhood. It happened about 7:45 this morning. Little 5-year-old Adrian Jaimes was actually in that brown-colored SUV you see there, sitting in that car with his mother and his sister. She was about to drive him to school when three suspects reached into this SUV you see there, snatched Adrian, threw him into his car and took him away. Little 5-year-old Adrian Jaimes, a Hispanic male, he`s 5 years old, 4 feet tall, 50 pounds, black hair and brown eyes. Now, he was last seen wearing a green jacket, a black T-shirt and dark blue pants.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, Natalee Holloway`s father, Dave Holloway, and the man who brainstormed the plan to crack the case of Natalee`s disappearance, Peter De Vries.


DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S FATHER: I just couldn`t believe what I was seeing, you know? You know, you almost, as a father, you know, you just feel like jumping through the TV set. You know, you just can`t believe that a person would stoop this low and have no lack of respect or remorse. I mean, he -- he has literally destroyed that island. And to top it all off, he laughs and said he was going to cash in.

PETER DE VRIES, DUTCH INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: (INAUDIBLE) investigation on the Natalee Holloway case (INAUDIBLE) Aruba, and I was very intrigued by it and I thought, Well, this is incredible that this case is not solved yet. So then I said to myself, I have to do everything to solve this, and that`s how it happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot says he was with Natalee Holloway when she died, that he helped dispose of her body and that she might not even have been dead while he was doing so. It`s all on video from a hidden camera. So how in the world is he still free? Well, Van Der Sloot spent the day being questioned by Dutch investigators and pledged to answer any question. And you can bet many of those focused on the new tapes of him discussing his night with Holloway.


GRACE: Right! So now three years after the fact, nearly three years after Natalee Holloway went missing, he finally is going to answer police interrogators? As we go to air right now, Joran Van Der Sloot set to meet with Dutch investigators and answer their questions regarding Natalee`s death and disappearance. As you all know by now, those of you who have followed the case, a plan to secretly catch former judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot on tape giving a confession. Take a listen.


JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I looked that officer straight in the face and I just sat there the entire time. Not a word came out of my mouth. Even that judge, Patrick. Man, that (DELETED) judge -- and I`m sitting there before him that first time, I didn`t say a thing, you know? And the second time, the session`s over and the judge says, Do you have anything to say? And I said, I`d really like to go home. That was good. If I hadn`t gotten that, I`d have gotten 30 days. And the judge says, yes, but you`re not telling the truth. And I said, I`m not telling the truth? I have nothing to say. But then he told me, I think you know more. That`s what the judge said to me. And I`m thinking, This really isn`t going well.

PATRICK VAN DER EEM (through translator): This guy really knows what he`s doing. Did he weigh her down to make sink?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, no. I don`t think so.

VAN DER EEM: You don`t even know that?


VAN DER EEM: Did he ever tell you how he did it?

VAN DER SLOOT: Of course he did.

VAN DER EEM: How did he do it, then?

VAN DER SLOOT: He just went out into the sea further and he just dumped her.

VAN DER EEM: He just threw her overboard, just like that? You`ve been really lucky, you know? No (DELETED. You`ve really been lucky.

VAN DER SLOOT: That`s what I say, I`ve been very lucky.

VAN DER EEM: Really lucky that he has been so stupid to do this, you know?

VAN DER SLOOT: I was even able to sleep that night. I just went home and went to bed.


GRACE: Just went home and went to bed after Natalee`s body was thrown into the ocean. That was video from ABC "20/20." It`s Joran Van Der Sloot, completely emotionless about 18-year-old Natalee Holloway dumped at sea, according to him. Earlier, it was him mocking the justice system.

I want to go to straight out to Tracy Sabo, CNN senior producer. And then we`ll be joined by Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway, and the man who brainstormed this entire confession, Peter De Vries.

First, Tracy, I understand that Joran Van Der Sloot finally speaking to authorities. Tell me about it.

TRACY SABO, CNN PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. Today we learned that he was questioned again by three Aruban investigators who flew all the way to Holland. There`s contradictory information there on who actually asked for this meeting. The prosecution says Joran himself had asked to speak to them. Attorneys for Van Der Sloot say that the investigators asked him. But nonetheless, it happened today in Holland, and we are told by Joran`s attorneys that he agreed to answer any questions that they might have. But what came out of that, we`re still waiting to hear.

GRACE: Straight out to Natalee`s father joining us tonight, Dave Holloway. And we all feel like we know Dave Holloway because we have thought of him, prayed for him and his family throughout this entire ordeal. Dave, what good is anything Van Der Sloot says now? I mean, he`s given so many different versions of what happened that night.

HOLLOWAY: Well, I just hope that he comes clean this time. This is his last chance, Nancy. I just hope that he comes clean. He`s got an account to settle, and I hope he settles it on this earth this time. If he doesn`t, you know, God bless him.

GRACE: You know what, Dave? You`ve got a pure heart. Let me prepare you. He`s not going to come clean. He`s not going to tell the truth. He`s told so many different versions of what happened. But do you believe, Dave, at this juncture, after this secretly taped confession, he`s got to either say, I was lying when I was on tape, or she died, your daughter, died of some type of a convulsion and (INAUDIBLE) Is he locked into that statement?

HOLLOWAY: I`d be surprised if he tells the truth this time. I think his pattern is the same pattern, try and lie and get his way out of it. He`s tried to avoid this justice system for a long time, and you know, it - - I`m afraid it`s going to come back and haunt him some day.

GRACE: Dave, did you learn anything additionally from the Dutch version of this interview, as opposed to what we heard here in America?

HOLLOWAY: There was a few discrepancies. One of them was that she was foaming at the mouth, which would indicate possible use of GHB. On the other, there was an indication that Joran was slipped a cell phone by his father while he was in prison.

GRACE: He got a cell phone from his father, the former judge, while he was in prison? For what, Dave?

HOLLOWAY: I guess to communicate on what answers or whatever. I`m really not sure. That was the Dutch version, and I think Peter De Vries could answer that...

GRACE: Right.

HOLLOWAY: ... a lot more clearly than I could.

GRACE: And let me go to Peter De Vries. Everyone, we have seen Peter De Vries briefly on other networks. Here he is with us tonight, talking your calls live. Mr. De Vries masterminded this plan to crack the case of Natalee Holloway`s disappearance. Mr. De Vries, Thank you for being with us.

Mr. De Vries, how did you get the idea to do this to start with?

DE VRIES: Well, because the case was still unsolved, and that amazes me because Joran lied a couple of times, established lies. And the whole case happened on, let`s say, 500 square meters on the beach. So I thought it must be possible to solve this case.

GRACE: Now, you are kind of the Dutch version of crime fighting, correct?

DE VRIES: Yes. That`s right.

GRACE: And so you have instinctively, for all these years you`ve been having your show, an interest in the outcome of unsolved homicides, missing people cases.

DE VRIES: That`s right. I`m a crime reporter for 30 years now, and I`ve been investigating almost 500 murder cases and disappearances.

GRACE: Whew! We have a lot of common, sir. Let me ask you something. You have very carefully reviewed this tape over and over and over. This was your idea. You had it executed at great expense, some say danger to you, as a matter of fact. Do you really believe -- do you really believe a perfectly healthy young girl, Natalee Holloway, with no history of drug use, no history that she had used drugs that night, no history of epilepsy, would go out on a beach and suddenly go into convulsions and die?

DE VRIES: I agree with you that`s very hard to believe. Young people just don`t die from drinking too much. So it`s hard to believe. But I don`t have any evidence of anything else, so this is the story...

GRACE: What about it, Dave Holloway? What do you make of it? And later on in his confession, this secretly taped video, he says, I hope they never find her body because if nay do, I`ll be in deep -- expletive. So if finding her body would land him in jail, why, if he hadn`t done anything wrong?

HOLLOWAY: Well, you and I have discussed that before. You know, when you go into a panic, which he said he did, the first thing you think of is call an ambulance. And with him choosing the alternative of getting rid of her, something else happened.

GRACE: Let`s go to...

HOLLOWAY: And I believe it was possible date rape drug used and a possible rape and murder.

GRACE: Back to Peter De Vries, Dutch investigative journalist joining us live. And we`re about to start taking your calls. Mr. De Vries, was there a difference? Did he ever say Natalee foamed at the mouth?

DE VRIES: Natalee what?

GRACE: Had foam coming from her mouth.

DE VRIES: No, no, no. He denied that.

GRACE: He denied that.

DE VRIES: Yes. Patrick asked him that, was there foam out of the mouth, and he denied it. No, he said, I didn`t see it.

GRACE: Peter, where do the Kalpoe brothers fit into this whole thing?

DE VRIES: Well, they brought him to the beach.


DE VRIES: They dropped him there, and Natalee, of course, and then they went home. And Joran was asked by Patrick, the insider, What do they know? And then Joran said -- and you have to notice his body language at that moment, No, they know nothing. They -- I told them nothing.

GRACE: So they just got dragged into this unwittingly?


GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Martha in Tennessee. Hi, Martha.


GRACE: I`m fine, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering if there was a possibility that Natalee could have had alcohol poisoning from that last big shot that he said he gave her of, like, 85 proof or something before he took her out to the beach.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Dr. Howard Adelman. He`s a former medical examiner and forensic pathologist. He is the author of "Forensic Medicine." Doctor, thank you for being with us. Don`t have to drink an inordinately large amount of alcohol to get alcohol poisoning and die?

DR. HOWARD ADELMAN, FORMER MEDICAL EXAMINER: Yes, you have to drink an awful lot of alcohol. And alcohol tends to make you sleepy, and so more comatose than active and have seizure activity. This seems to be more of a drug-related reaction.

GRACE: Yes, if it happened at all. That`s a good question, Martha.

To you, Peter De Vries. I noticed you shaking your head when Martha from Tennessee asked the question. What do you think about this theory of alcohol poisoning?

DE VRIES: No, I don`t believe that. Maybe she drank too much. That`s possible. But I don`t believe she died just from drinking too much alcohol.

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) ridiculous! And another thing -- to Art Harris, investigative journalist. Art, why is it that we`re all doing backbends, contortions to make his account true, when obviously, Natalee was a healthy young person? What more can you tell us as of right now? I`m very interested in what Van Der Sloot has to say to the Dutch investigators. They`re grilling him probably about right now.

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, one of the questions, Nancy, is going to be, What did you do with those shoes? Did he possibly use the shoes to hold her down? You know, why did he throw them away? Anything that can fill in the gaps to this very implausible story is what they`re looking for.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Janet in Maryland. Hi, Janet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. I`d like to ask you, watching some of the tapes of Joran to Patrick, I noticed that this -- to me, his face, his demeanor changed when it was talking about disposing of the body to that person that he got to get the boat. It seems like, all of a sudden, he didn`t trust Patrick. And I wonder if he deliberately give them a red herring to throw them off.


GRACE: ... so interesting that you use the phrase "red herring" because when I first heard the mention of Daury, I said, That`s a red herring.

To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author. Bethany, she is right. He paused. He wouldn`t tell. He wouldn`t give it up. Then he later on gave up the name Daury. He did have different body language. Explain, Bethany.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Janet is right. I mean, Joran Van Der Sloot can`t tell the truth even when he`s making a confession. And I think he thought that this insider, Patrick, was like a Don Corleone, the Mafia king, a "goodfella," and he wanted to impress him in some respects, but he still was afraid of getting into trouble in others. And you know, we talk so much on this show about sociopaths, how they have no conscience, no remorse, no anxiety about getting into trouble. This is our clinical vignette. This is what it looks like. This is what those words mean. This is a sociopath.

GRACE: To Peter De Vries. Everyone, Peter De Vries is a Dutch investigative journalist who has devoted much of his life to reporting on crime, murders, who masterminded the discovery, the creation of this taped confession secretly recorded of Joran Van Der Sloot. Also with us tonight, Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway.

Question to you, Peter. Where does the father, Van Der Sloot`s father, fit into this? Somebody had to help him. Peter?

DE VRIES: Yes, somebody had to help him, and we don`t know who it is. He claimed that it was Daury. And I agree that -- I think he`s protecting somebody else by mentioning that name. But we don`t know who it is. What we do know is that Joran told that his father smuggled a cell phone into the prison when he was arrested.

GRACE: So we know the father will break the rules.

DE VRIES: If Joran is telling the truth...

GRACE: If you believe Joran Van Der Sloot.

DE VRIES: ... yes, he is. Yes.




HOLLOWAY: I saw what I saw, you know, a person who had no emotions, no respect for human life at all. He deprived Natalee of a proper funeral. You know, he deprived us of her livelihood and grandchildren and whatever. And he also deprived a lot of the citizens of Aruba and Holland of many things. He was self-centered and only looking after himself.


GRACE: You are hearing the voice of Dave Holloway, Natalee`s father, who is with us tonight. Right now, you`re seeing video, stunning video from the TV show "Pauw and Witteman (ph)." That`s a Dutch broadcaster, NPS (ph). You see Joran Van Der Sloot throwing wine into the face of Peter De Vries. De Vries masterminded the tape that catches Van Der Sloot confessing to being with Natalee Holloway at the time of her death, then disposing of her body in the ocean.

Peter, what do you recall about that moment on that show, when Joran Van Der Sloot, true to form, misbehaves?

DE VRIES: Yes, well, it was at the end of the show, I wasn`t paying any attention to him. And then he stood up, grabbed the glass of wine and threw it in my face because he was so frustrated about my asking all the time. And he tried to gain sympathy by the audience because the case was closed. He was released. He thought he was off the hook. He considered himself as a winner.

But during the show, I asked him, Why were you lying all the time? Why didn`t you answer simple questions? And he was very frustrated about that, and that`s the reason he threw me the glass of wine into my face.

GRACE: To Dave Holloway. This is Natalee`s father. If he would treat a grown man that way, what would he do to Natalee Holloway alone, late at night, out on a beach, in an isolated area?

HOLLOWAY: Well, you just saw it. You just saw the tip of the iceberg of his behavior. Beth saw it in the beginning. And we saw, all of America, in fact, all the world saw what type of person this individual is.



HOLLOWAY: I believe all the information he told us was true. I think when he got into the point he was questioned about the boat, and he said he`d have to take that name to his grave, I think that`s where he became a little bit reluctant and things tailed off. But I do believe the confession, without any doubt.


GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot offering to meet with Dutch police following caught-on-video confession.

With me tonight, Dave Holloway. This is Natalee`s father joining us. Also with us, and the man who masterminded the sting, Peter De Vries. Mr. De Vries, the theory came out in Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession that he wasn`t really sure Natalee was dead when she was thrown into the ocean that night. Were you shocked when you heard that?

DE VRIES: Yes, I was very shocked. Patrick was asking him, How can you be so sure that Natalee was dead? And then he said, Well, I wasn`t. She was just not moving anymore and she wasn`t thinking (ph) anymore. And so I thought she must be dead. And then he dumped her into the ocean, and yes, that`s really shocking.

GRACE: When you first saw this video -- I mean, I`m sure that Van Der Eem called you and told you what had been said before you saw it. But when you first saw it and you saw Joran Van Der Sloot giving this confession, what was your reaction?

DE VRIES: I was shocked by the way -- by the disrespect he talked about Natalee. He called her a (DELETED) and things like that.

GRACE: He called her a whore.


GRACE: He called her a (DELETED) for absolutely no reason.


GRACE: This girl had a sterling reputation.

DE VRIES: Yes, and he`s showing no remorse at all. He`s telling that he didn`t lose one second of sleep.



DE VRIES: Yes, I`m pretty convinced by that. Because it was not a slip of the tongue, what he did. He told -- he did a full confession on tape, not once, not twice but more than ten times. And he did -- there were some days between it. And they were very detailed, and so I`m convince that he told the truth.

Until now, Joran always denied that Natalee died in his presence, and now he confessed that. And he told what he did with the body, and he told how he came home, what he did with his shoes. It`s the complete story.


GRACE: Caught on tape. This is part of what Joran Van Der Sloot said on secretly recorded audio and videotapes masterminded by Dutch investigative reporter Peter De Vries. "What happened to her? What the `F` happened to her? I`m from Aruba. I know the beach."

"Joran: I`m telling you honestly, I know what happened to that girl."

"What happened then? She`s dead isn`t she?"

"Of course. The ocean`s big, isn`t it?"

"Of course the sea is big, man."

"Joran: I just think that I`m incredibly lucky she`s never been found, because if they found that girl, I`d be in deep expletive."

On and on, these two drive around for hours, hours, discussing so many issues of crime, but especially this.

"Joran, What have you done?"

"She looked sweet, you know, Patrick, she is just lying still. Still, she`s not doing anything."

He says, "What happened?"

"I don`t know."

"Did you try to resuscitate her?"

"Of course, I tried everything. I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, what`s wrong with you, man. I almost wanted to cry. Why does this have to happen to me? Why does this have to happen to me all the time."

You know, to Dave Holloway, Natalee`s father, who is with us tonight, it makes me wonder why he said all the time. What else has happened to him? Did you have that thought, too?

HOLLOWAY: Nancy, it`s been all about him all along. He`s -- he`s hurt us tremendously and other families tremendously and some innocent people of Aruba. He has no remorse, no -- a total disregard for anyone else except for himself, even his own family. And it`s just shocking to me that someone could do this. It`s just...

GRACE: Dave, you have...

HOLLOWAY: I`m just still reeling from it.

GRACE: You have lived through so many versions that Joran Van Der Sloot has spouted off. What are some of the inconsistencies you know off the top of your head?

HOLLOWAY: Well, you know, you start from the beginning. They lie about where they dropped Natalee off.

GRACE: Right.

HOLLOWAY: And, you know, it just guys on and on and on. You know, there`s just so many -- so many different versions and so many different lies, all -- all about trying to protect themselves from going to jail. And, you know -- and it`s come to the point in time where I don`t think anyone can be in his corner at all. And -- and he`s put himself in that corner.

And we`ve just got to find out who this boat operator is and continue our search in Aruba. We`ve got a boat out there right now, that`s combing the ocean floor and -- to -- to find Natalee`s remains.

GRACE: You know, I think fathers and mothers all across this country that are hearing you right now are shuddering, Dave, at the thought of being so far away from their child`s remains and sending boats out to troll the ocean to try to find her. You`ve never given up.

To Peter De Vries, when you heard this, when you saw this -- everyone, De Vries masterminded these secretly-recorded tapes. And we are taking your calls live tonight.

After you saw this, you realized you had to tell the parents. How hard was that, Peter?

DE VRIES: That`s, of course, very hard. I`m an experienced crime reporter for 30 years. But it`s always hard to tell parents what happened to their children, and when they are missing or murdered or raped and -- well, that`s very hard. And Beth was very emotional when I told her.

GRACE: You know, I thought I understood it, representing victims for so many years in court. But now that I have my own two children, I just -- I don`t know how you -- you do that. It must be very, very hard.

DE VRIES: It`s the most difficult part of the job.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Pauline in California.

Hi, Pauline.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: If she was alive when she hit the water, would the water have woke her up?

GRACE: Well, I think we would have to know, wouldn`t we, Dr. Adelman, what was wrong? If she had passed out, if she was in some type of a seizure, she may never have come to.

ADELMAN: That`s true. Without a body, we`re at an extreme disadvantage. Because there`s no way of knowing what actually happened with her.

GRACE: To the attorneys, Doug Burns and Mickey Sherman. Mickey, without a body, it`s going to be very difficult to prove a murder took place. Do we have to take Joran Van Der Sloot`s word for it that she suddenly died of a seizure?

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But that`s not going to get them, you know, home. And that`s the problem. You know, the tape, which is excellent -- I`ve got to congratulate Mr. De Vries. I mean, just the technical quality is amazing and the fact that he clearly had no idea he was being videotaped.

Unfortunately, though, however, he doesn`t say, "I killed her." And I hate to say that so clearly to her dad here. But he doesn`t admit killing. And that`s -- that`s a problem. And also, he lies about other things. And he has his lawyers now in a very unenviable position of saying, "No, don`t believe my client, because he`s lying about this and he`s lying about that."

GRACE: All right.

SHERMAN: That`s the problem.

GRACE: So, Doug, you don`t have to have a body to go forward with a murder case, and you don`t have to have a confession, therefore. But what we need to go forward is somebody else he talked to.

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You don`t need that. You`re absolutely right. And I think, Mickey, honestly, you hit it on the head. His quote about, "Man, if they had found the body, I would be in deep" whatever expletive he used, that is a huge thing we have to latch on. And the other point is getting this boat operator. That`s the key.

GRACE: Back to Peter De Vries -- De Vries, responsible for masterminding the scheme that caught Van Der Sloot on tape. Peter, honestly, what do you think will happen now? We Americans don`t get that the Dutch authorities have not pursued this further. I mean, they`re just executing search warrants now, nearly three years later to get his laptops or his computer? That doesn`t even make sense to us. We want search warrants now. We want justice now.

And I don`t understand it. Do you really think he will ever see a court of law, Peter?

DE VRIES: Yes. I am convinced he will finally stand on trial, really, believe me.


DE VRIES: Because the Dutch and the Aruban police and investigators are really very busy with it. And...

GRACE: Why did this judge refuse to issue an arrest warrant?

DE VRIES: Well, that`s a technical law thing in the Dutch law. It`s not easy, but that`s the way it is.

GRACE: You`re telling me.

DE VRIES: He will stand trial.

GRACE: You believe that?

DE VRIES: I believe that.

GRACE: You believe it. Bernie -- what, what?

DE VRIES: Yes, maybe not next month, but he will.

GRACE: To Bernie in New York. Hi, Bernie.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good. What`s your question?

CALLER: Nancy, do the police know who this Daury character is? I`m assuming he`s the one that drove the boat to get the body in the water?

GRACE: Well, they do. I`ll throw that one to you, Art Harris. Explain Daury.

HARRIS: Well, Daury was the so-called friend he picked to blame helping him carry the body to the boat. The Daury he named, however, has an alibi. He was in Holland at the time. There is another Daury, I understand, who is being ruled in or out, but most people don`t think it`s Daury.

GRACE: What about that, Peter? Is there another Daury?

DE VRIES: Yes, sure there is. Because the Daury who is in the news now is not mentioned by Joran. It`s the wrong Daury. So...

GRACE: So there is another Daury?

DE VRIES: There is another Daury, yes.

GRACE: OK. I just got to ask you why you think this will end in court? Because I`m afraid it`s over. If they haven`t arrested him now, will they ever?

DE VRIES: They are working on it. A lot of suspect circumstances.

GRACE: I want to ask you very quickly before we go to break. A lot of people have attacked you, saying you crossed journalistic bounds by doing this. I say they`re just jealous they didn`t think of it first.

DE VRIES: I`m saying so what? I did. I did what was needed. That`s what I did.

GRACE: You certainly did.

With us now, taking your calls, Mr. Peter De Vries and Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway.

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When we come back, in addition to the Natalee Holloway story, Amber Alert. A 5-year-old boy kidnapped from his own driveway, Austin, Texas. Where is 5-year-old Adrian, and why was he taken?

Tonight, APB, all-points-bulletin for special moms and dads. If you know one who`s an inspiration to others, get that camcorder. Go to, click on I-Report, and enter that parent in the extraordinary parent contest.



GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot says he was with Natalee Holloway when she died, that he helped dispose of her body and that she might not even have been dead while he was doing so. It`s all on video from a hidden camera. So how in the world could he be still free?

Well, Van Der Sloot spent the day being questioned by Dutch investigators and budged (ph) to answer any question. And you can bet, many of those focused on the tapes of him discussing his night with Holloway.

Before we go to Texas and the search for 5-year-old Adrian Jaimes, back to the calls on the Natalee Holloway case. With me, Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway.

Out to the lines -- Jackie (ph) in Wisconsin. Hi, Jackie (ph).

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. My question is, is Joe Tacopina still Joran Van Der Sloot`s lawyer and, if so, has he released any kind of statement about this?

GRACE: Jackie, I can answer that one for you. Yes, he is the States lawyer, United States lawyer, and he says Van Der Sloot made it all up, that it was just a big lie.

To T.J. Ward. What do you think investigators will get out of Van Der Sloot tonight? He is there being questioned.

T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, I hope they`re asking him the questions to try to confirm some of the information. The mere fact, I think, that he needs to talk about and the Dutch authorities need to talk about, arresting him for concealing a death, I mean, for starters.

I mean, he`s obviously, the statements that he`s made on tape warrants the application for concealing a death. He said he dumped the body and brought a boat in. And now they could get somebody for conspiracy of bringing a boat in. His intentions to dispose of the body is very, very clear in this whole conversation about the interview.

GRACE: I agree. T.J. Ward joining us, private investigator who worked with the Holloway family.

To Dave Holloway, Natalee`s father, what do you make of it when Peter De Vries says Joran Van Der Sloot will face trial?

HOLLOWAY: Peter must know something I -- that I don`t know. There must be a lot more information that he`s withheld for obvious reasons. And I think -- I think he and I both have very good confidence that this case is going to move forward.

You know, Nancy, our mission is we`re working in the ocean and if any of the viewers are interested in following along, they can go to Ken Miller, Texas EquuSearch`s Web site, click on a link, and you will see what a great job these guys are doing not the ocean.

GRACE: Dave, how do you stay so composed when you discuss Natalee`s death and disappearance?

HOLLOWAY: You just have to get yourself primed up for it, Nancy. There have been a lot of tough times away from the camera that is very tough.

We`ve got some serious things ahead of us. You know, I`ve got two young -- two young daughters that still believe in Santa Claus, and they`ve put up Natalee`s little stocking. And they still have hope. And you know, we`ve got that ahead of us.

GRACE: You know, I just realized for the first time that I have been now talking about, not Natalee`s disappearance but Natalee`s death and disappearance, because this tape seemed to make it -- I don`t know why. It made it so much more real. Did it do that to you, as well?

HOLLOWAY: You know, I had a pretty good idea what was -- what had happened. That`s the reason we`re out in the ocean, and Peter confirmed that for us. And you know, and I took it. And you know, it`s been tough.

You know, but I wasn`t prepared for the attitude of this kid towards Natalee. That`s -- that`s been the toughest part for me. I just can`t believe a human being can be that cruel and inhumane towards another person.

GRACE: You know, it`s funny that it struck you that way. I mean, odd. It did the same thing to me. Because I already believed he was responsible for her death, but to hear him speak of her and call her a bitch and a whore the way he did, I don`t know why. That just added insult to injury.

With us tonight is Dave Holloway. This is Natalee`s father. Dave, thank you very much for speaking with us tonight and talking the calls. Thank you very much.

HOLLOWAY: Thank you.

GRACE: Everyone, on to another missing child, this one only 5 years old. Won`t you help? Take a listen.


GRACE (voice-over): An Amber Alert is out for a 5-year-old boy kidnapped from his driveway as his family was getting into their car. Police in Austin say three teenagers in white hooded sweatshirts took Adrian Jaimes this morning. He reportedly tried to fight off his abductors. But he`s just 4-feet-tall, only 50 pounds. He could not get away. The kidnappers took off in a gray or silver Volkswagen Jetta. Police say this was not a random kidnapping.


GRACE: Where is 5-year-old Adrian? Let`s go straight out to Emily Trube with KLBJ Radio 590 AM, joining us our of Austin.

What happened, Emily?

EMILY TRUBE, KLBJ RADIO: Good evening, Nancy.

Police are still trying to figure out exactly what happened. They were telling us this afternoon that they have received up to 30 tips about the possible location of this vehicle.

But the Texas Department of Transportation and Texas Department of Safety, rather, I should say, they`re not taking any chances. And they have put up bulletin boards up and down the highway between Austin and the Mexico border, alerting people not only to the little boy but the car that he may still be in with these three young men, asking folks to call if they have any information.

GRACE: Also joining us, the PIO with the Austin Police Department, Joe Munoz. Joe, thank you for being with us. What are the circumstances surrounding the little boy`s disappearance?

JOE MUNOZ, AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, right now, where it would stand, we are getting a lot of public assistance. We`ve received over 165 phone calls from citizens of Austin, saying they have seen the suspected vehicle.

GRACE: What happened this morning? What happened?

MUNOZ: Well, what happened was the young man was getting ready to go to school, went outside. Mother got in the car, his 10-year-old sister got in the front seat, and almost immediately, the suspect vehicle pulled up. Two remained in the car. Two of the suspects got out, opened the back door, and forced the young man out of the -- out of his family vehicle.

GRACE: The little boy was on his way to school, right?

MUNOZ: That is correct.

GRACE: What`s the description?

MUNOZ: The description of the young man? Or...

GRACE: No, the perpetrators.

MUNOZ: The perpetrators are described as Hispanic males in their late teens. There are four of them. Two remained in the car. One stayed outside of the vehicle as a lookout. And one of them was the individual that was -- actually pulled him out by force.

The -- little Adrian fought off, attempted to fight them off, but he was unsuccessful.


GRACE: Where is 5-year-old Adrian Jaimes? He was taken out of his car this morning around 7:40 a.m. with his mom driving him to school, right there in his own driveway. Tip line, 512-477-3588. Please help find this little boy.

Straight out to Joe Munoz, public information officer of the Austin Police Department. Joe, why do you believe this family, this little boy was targeted?

MUNOZ: Well, we -- that`s a good question. I think right now we`re funneling all our attention to the safe return of the young man and the why`s will come later. We have a lot of information coming in, and we`re looking into every avenue that`s come across our desk. So, you know, it`s just a matter of time that the right information will come in.

As I mentioned earlier, we`ve already gotten 165 phone calls into our communications, stating how -- that they`ve seen...

GRACE: Right.

MUNOZ: ... the suspected vehicle. So we`re looking into everything.

GRACE: To Emily Trube from KLBJ Radio, 590 AM. There is a voiced concern that the kidnappers are talking the little boy to Mexico. Why? Why would they do that?

TRUBE: I don`t think anybody necessarily knows the reason. Office Munoz knows.

But I would like to say, too, that something we found out today from the school district where Adrian and his older sister go to school is that the sister recognized one of the man from this morning from a few weeks ago, that they had been harassed by some men as they came home from school.

And the school district actually asked Adrian`s parents to find another way to get them home from school in the afternoon. They had been walking, because they live just a few blocks away.

So the little sister told authorities today that she did recognize one of those young men.

GRACE: Incredible. Who would harass two little children as young as 5 years old?

Again, the tip line: 512-477-3588.

Let`s stop and remember Army Captain Benjamin Tiffner, 31, Pigeon, West Virginia, killed, Iraq. Second tour, on one of the Special Forces tab (ph). Two Army commendations medals and a National Defense Service Medal. A West Point grad, he loved God, family, country, sports, hunting. Leaves behind parents and missionaries Timothy and June (ph), sisters Rebecca (ph) and Sarah (ph), brothers Joshua and Seth. Benjamin Tiffner, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but most of all, to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8 p.m. sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.