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Huckabee Wins Kansas; African-American Vote Critical in Louisiana; Interview With Mike Huckabee; Obama Wins Nebraska, Washington State
Aired February 09, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world.
I'm Wolf Blitzer at CNN's Election Center.
There are more contests tonight in the race for the White House. Important contests, and we're going to be following them over the next several hours, every step of the way.
In Kansas, there's already been one Republican caucus. We're going to show you the results in just a second.
Louisiana, Democratic and Republican primaries tonight. In Nebraska, there's a Democratic caucus. And in Washington State, there are Democratic and Republican caucuses tonight, important contests for Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama that will give some political momentum, a little bit more to either one of these two Democratic candidates.
Let's tell you what happened today in Kansas.
First of all, Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor, he scored a major win for himself, showing he's got some support out there in the heartland, in this reddest of red states. Mike Huckabee getting 60 percent of the vote in this Republican caucus in Kansas today.
John McCain, the front-runner, clearly the man most likely to get the Republican nomination, he only got 24 percent. Ron Paul came up with 11 percent.
Let's take a look at the actual numbers for you.
Mike Huckabee doing best there with 11,600 or so. John McCain only 4,500, a disappointment for him, no doubt. Ron Paul, 2,182.
All 36 delegates in this state, because Mike Huckabee -- because Mike Huckabee won all the congressional districts there and won a decisive win statewide, he will get all 36 of these delegates that are pledged in Kansas. And no one else will get any of those pledged delegates, although John McCain will get two of the so-called superdelegates in Kansas.
That's the CNN delegate estimate. Mike Huckabee, the winner in Kansas. These are the other contests that you can see coming up later tonight. In about an hour or so they'll be closing the polls in Louisiana, where there are Democratic and Republican primaries. We'll see how Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama do there. We'll see how Mike Huckabee does in Louisiana against John McCain and Ron Paul.
In Nebraska, there's a Democratic caucus. We'll be getting results within the next hour or so, we're told. And in Washington State, there are Democratic and Republican caucuses. We also should be getting results coming in, perhaps as early as this hour.
We have a team of all of our best reporters and analysts standing by to assess what's going on, including Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst. He's already going through all the exit polls. He's going to be sharing with you momentarily some of the numbers that are coming up.
Campbell Brown is here as well, with the best political team on television.
Campbell, tell our viewers who's here, because we've got some great analysts.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: We do. We have two panels tonight, Wolf.
And joining me is Senior Political Correspondent John King; Gloria Borjer, who is a senior political analyst; Jeffrey Toobin, also a senior analyst here. And on the back row, we have Leslie Sanchez, who's a Republican strategist; Amy Holmes, CNN analyst; and, of course, Rowland Martin, who's cracking jokes back there. CNN contributor Rowland Martin.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Yes, a lot of analysis coming up from the two panels -- Wolf.
BLITZER: A lot of fun coming up.
BROWN: Yes.
BLITZER: Thanks very much.
And we also have a team of correspondents watching all of this unfold, including our own Candy Crowley. She's in Richmond, Virginia. There's a big primary there on Tuesday.
In New Orleans, Louisiana, Suzanne Malveaux. There are Democratic and Republican primaries in Louisiana tonight.
In Seattle, Washington, Jessica Yellin is standing by. Democratic and Republican caucuses later tonight.
Dana Bash and Mary Snow, they're watching all of this unfold in Washington.
Tuesday, remember, the so-called Potomac primaries in Washington, D.C., Virginia, and Maryland.
Let's go to Dana Bash though first right now.
Dana, you've been covering the John McCain race with Mike Huckabee. Mike Huckabee, I've got to say he's embarrassed John McCain today. Doesn't look like he's got enough votes to get the delegate count, but he certainly -- he certainly did really well in Kansas today, Mike Huckabee.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He walloped John McCain in Kansas, despite the fact, Wolf, that John McCain had the backing of an important senator there, Senator Sam Brownback, who is very, very popular with Republicans, particularly conservatives there.
You know, Senator McCain's campaign, what they say is that this is one caucus which has 36 delegates and certainly not enough to change the dynamic big picture. They also say that he is probably going to lose some other caucuses and even some primaries to Mike Huckabee, as long as Mike Huckabee stays in the race.
But the reality is, Wolf, that what John McCain is trying to do, even today -- he's not on the campaign trail, but he is making calls, he's trying to unify and unite the Republican Party behind him. But what Kansas did, what Republicans in Kansas did by going and voting for Mike Huckabee and not John McCain, that makes his message a lot harder for John McCain to put out there, the fact that he is the presumptive nominee and that people should basically get behind him -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Dana. Stand by. We're going to be getting back to you.
I want to go to Candy. She's in Louisiana. She's in Richmond, Virginia -- excuse -- me right now.
We're going to be hearing later tonight from both the Democratic presidential candidates, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. They're speaking at a forum right behind you. Set the scene for us.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this is the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner. In every state for Democrats, this is a huge fundraiser.
It takes on even more importance at this point because it comes before the Chesapeake primary. That is Tuesday -- Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, D.C. So this is the first and last time these party activists -- and that's who fills up this room -- will be able to see these two candidates side by side.
You know, what's going to happen in Washington State? What's going to happen in Nebraska? What's going to happen in Louisiana? What will be will be as far as these candidates are concerned.
They are now already moving forward. They were in Maine today. Maine, of course, has its caucuses tomorrow. But right now, here in Virginia tonight, they'll be focusing on this Chesapeake primary and they will in the days ahead, as well. BLITZER: And as soon as they speak, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, we'll be bringing you their remarks live. Stand by for that. We'll see how they do in the actual balloting today.
Suzanne Malveaux is watching the situation in Louisiana.
The polls close there, correct me if I'm wrong, 9:00 p.m. Eastern? Is that right, Suzanne?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right, in about an hour, Wolf.
BLITZER: And give us a little preview. What's going on in New Orleans and elsewhere in Louisiana?
New Orleans, I want to remind our viewers, your hometown.
MALVEAUX: Sure. There are about 56 delegates that are up for grabs here. And really what is critical is the African-American vote.
It is nearly half of the Democrats, the percentage of voters who would come out and vote in this primary. Barack Obama certainly is hoping to capture that group.
He's done so, he's done well in the past, South Carolina. And already the Clinton campaign trying to lower expectations, saying that they concede they don't believe they're necessarily going to win here in Louisiana.
Now, the last time that this was really significant it was 1984. You had Walter Mondale, you had Gary Hart and Jesse Jackson. Jesse Jackson won this primary by 40 percent or so, Mondale ended up getting the nomination. It is all about voter turnout here.
We've been here all day, Wolf. I can tell you, it was a little light early in the day. It's tended to pick up a little bit. But I've been talking to state officials who don't believe that it's really going to be all that high -- maybe 10, 12, 15 percent or so.
And there are a lot of reasons behind this, but one of the main ones is the frustration over Hurricane Katrina, whether or not the federal government really did its job in weighing in and whether or not people believe that the federal government can step in and respond to their needs.
Voters have been saying they want specifics from Senator Clinton, as well as Barack Obama. They want new, fresh ideas. And there's some people who don't have enough faith, enough trust in the system in the federal government, they say, to even come out here and engage in this process.
So we'll see what turnout looks like. That is going to be critical -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And that's one part of the story. The other part of the story is the McCain-Huckabee contest in Louisiana, as well. We'll see if Mike Huckabee can repeat in Louisiana what he's done in Kansas already today, a decisive win.
All right, Suzanne. Stand by.
Another major contest out in Washington State that we're following. Democratic and Republican voters are going to the polls today, a caucus there.
Jessica Yellin is standing by.
Set the scene for us. First of all, tell our viewers when we should start getting real numbers coming in, Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we understand that we might not get the final numbers here until 7:00 local, which would be 10:00 p.m. Eastern. But they've already started tallying the counts on a local county level. And what I would like to emphasize here is the degree of enthusiasm we've seen.
We were at a caucus site that basically ran out of paper, that -- the paper they were supposed to use to fill out their preferences. They got more than double what they saw last year, and that was -- last four years ago. And that was the case in district after district.
We talked to one person who was running another caucus site. This is in Seattle, where they said they had -- if the fire marshal had showed up, they would have to shut the place down. And it's overwhelmingly Democrats we're seeing turn out.
People here saying that they're so upset with the state of the country, the state of the United States' position in the war, et cetera, in a very liberal area here, that they wanted to make their voices heard. At the caucus site we were attending, they asked the audience that was about 1,200 people there how many were caucusing for the first time. And more than half raised their hands. So, it's just a measure of the enthusiasm we're seeing in the Democratic Party right now, here in Seattle especially, to really weigh in and make a difference.
Now, both Senators Clinton and Obama have been downplaying their expectations, but certainly the demographics in this state, and also the caucus format, tends to favor Barack Obama. But we will see just a few short hours from now how it all plays out -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jessica. Thanks very much.
Washington State tonight. Washington, D.C., on Tuesday, together with Virginia and Maryland.
Remember, you can always go to CNNPolitics.com and see the numbers actually come in county by county, state by state, and follow all of this together with us. A good idea -- have your laptop handy, watch us here on CNN, but also go to CNNPolitics.com for a lot more specific information, especially useful for all of you political news junkies out there.
Campbell, we're going to be speaking momentarily with Mike Huckabee, the winner of the Republican caucus. It wasn't necessarily a huge surprise that he won. What was a surprise was the pretty decisive, almost landslide that he won.
BROWN: The margin suggests that there's a lot of unhappiness out there about John McCain. And let's talk a little bit about Mike Huckabee in Kansas, just what Wolf said.
The margin a bit of a surprise. Even though the demographics are good for him there, a lot of Christian conservatives in Kansas. But what happened there?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the demographics are great for him in that you have a lot of Christian conservatives. It's a caucus, so the passion voters are the ones who show up.
Kansas is next door to Colorado, the home base of Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family, who just endorsed Governor Huckabee this past week. So, the dynamic here was good for Huckabee.
But you can't have more than one or two of these. And then it gets very hard for John McCain to start to explain this, because the last thing John McCain needs and wants is to be limping to his own nomination.
Yes, the math is almost impossible for Mike Huckabee. But at some point, John McCain needs to show, I am the Republican nominee and my part wants me to be that nominee.
So one of these they can shrug off. If there are two or three or four or five of these, McCain's going to look weak.
BROWN: And conservatives haven't rallied behind him yet.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: No, they haven't. And I think the question we're all asking tonight is, where are those Mitt Romney voters going? Just as we asked, where are those John Edwards voters going after he withdrew.
And we'll be interested tonight to see whether, like in Kansas and Louisiana, those conservatives, in particular, or the evangelicals are really going to rally around Huckabee or decide, well, McCain's going to be our nominee, so maybe we ought to support him anyway. So, this is going to be interesting for us to watch this evening, to see where that base of the party really decides to go.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: You know, McCain could have a tremendous opportunity in the next few weeks. If he has a clear shot to the nomination while Obama and Clinton slug it out week after week, he could be above the fray, attacking the Democrats, looking like a national leader. Instead, he's got Mike Huckabee winning primaries.
BROWN: So what is Mike Huckabee's end game? Is he really auditioning for vice president or is he...
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: He wants to get more delegates than Romney.
KING: Right.
BORGER: That's what he wants.
KING: One calculation -- Gloria is dead right -- go to the convention with more delegates than the rich guy. Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney have gone at it for a long time, and that is one of his calculations.
BROWN: It's that personal?
BORGER: They don't like him. They don't like him.
And by the way, you know, Huckabee and McCain are not going to be attacking each other. They have been sort of campaign buddies throughout this campaign because they're both United against Mitt Romney. Let's see what happens now.
KING: It's getting -- it's not getting personal, but he's starting to hit McCain on the issues that could hurt McCain.
BORGER: Right.
KING: Starting to talk about same-sex marriage, why doesn't McCain support the constitutional amendment? He's not making it personal, but those are the kinds of things that make repairing relations with the base harder. And what they're saying inside the McCain campaign, especially if McCain wins Virginia next week, which is a primary in a state with the evangelical base, they're saying by then -- the people around McCain are saying, long enough, get out, if McCain can win Virginia.
BROWN: OK. We'll be back with more in just a minute, but we want to go to Wolf now because we've got votes coming in already from Washington.
BLITZER: All right. Even though we haven't got a complete total yet, 24 percent of the precincts in Washington State have reported, and Obama's doing rather well. Sixty-five percent for Barack Obama in Washington State, to only 33 percent for Hillary Clinton. That's with 24 percent of the vote tallied.
Remember, this is a caucus. We'll be getting more numbers coming in. We don't know which part of the states are represented in this 24 percent.
Let's drill in a little bit on the actual vote that's coming in. These are actually delegates who are pledged county delegates and others -- 5,990 for Barack Obama, 2,927 for Hillary Clinton.
These are not the numbers of people who have actually voted, but these are the -- these are the delegates who are represented proportionately coming up. A lot more people are voting than these numbers reflect. But it looks pretty good for Barack Obama in Washington State right now.
We'll be hearing from him and Hillary Clinton later tonight. They're speaking in Richmond, Virginia.
We'll take a quick break. When we come back, Mike Huckabee, the winner of the Kansas Republican caucus, the former governor of Arkansas, he'll be joining us live.
Much more of our coverage right here from the CNN Election Center. .
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to the CNN Election Center.
I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting.
Let's go live right now to the winner of the Kansas Republican caucus. The former governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee, is joining us now.
Governor, thanks very much for coming in.
First of all, congratulations on your very impressive win today in Kansas.
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, thank you, Wolf.
There's a big smile on my face for a reason. We are pretty proud and grateful for the people of Kansas. We had a big day today. I don't think anybody was predicting us to win, and certainly not for the margin. And we were stunned by the margin ourselves.
BLITZER: Sixty percent for Mike Huckabee, 24 percent for John McCain.
Why do you think you crushed him in this reddest of red states?
HUCKABEE: You know, we were both there, we both had a shot at it. He had both United States senators out there endorsing him and speaking for him yesterday. It looked like it would be a pretty tough environment for us.
But I'll tell you what's happening. People don't want to be told who their president is going to be. And in the Republican Party, people want to make a choice. They don't want somebody else making that decision for them.
And they're tired of hearing somebody say, oh, well he's the presumptive nominee, why doesn't everybody just clear the field? And what we're seeing is there's an energy in our campaign, frankly, Wolf, that we haven't seen in months.
We've raised more money online in a day than we normally would raise in a month. We have seen extraordinary traffic to mikehuckabee.com, the likes of which we just aren't used to. We've also had an enormous amount of volunteers show up at things.
We were in Maryland today at a rally. We had three times the number of people that we thought we could possibly get at noon at the University of Maryland.
So, there's something going on out there, and it's called an election.
BLITZER: All right. Will this win in Kansas change your strategy at all in the coming days and weeks?
HUCKABEE: Well, not really. I mean, our strategy has been, let's go head to head wherever we can, because we've always felt that once the field narrowed and people had a clear choice, that we would be in a real position to start winning greater numbers of delegates.
When the votes of many of the conservatives were split all over the place, it obviously made it a little bit more difficult. But when the race is focussed and you only have a couple of candidates and people are starting to really look at where we stand and differences -- you know, not maybe hostile differences, but differences -- I think that what you're going to continue to see is that this is a real race despite what people may have thought about it middle of last week.
BLITZER: Does it bother you that in Kansas, at least, you humiliated John McCain and might embarrass him in other states down the road? Is that a problem going into this contest against the Democrats, that the front-runner, the Republican front-runner, could be embarrassed by you?
HUCKABEE: Well, no. I mean, I could argue that he embarrassed me in Florida, or that he embarrassed me in California. I mean, that's what an election is all about. It gives people a choice and an option. Elections are about contests.
You know, I had a reporter ask me today, should I just step aside for the good of the party? I said, "I'll tell you what's good for the party. It's competition."
We are always the party that said that competition is the key to excellence. And that's true in the private business market. If you have competition, then you create excellence. If you have the lack of competition, you end up with mediocrity.
The idea that we're going to be a better party without any type of election process is utter nonsense and about the most non-Republican idea I've ever heard.
BLITZER: What is the biggest issue that separates you from John McCain?
HUCKABEE: I think the key issues are that I support the human life amendment, that I don't support human embryonic stem-cell research. That I didn't agree with McCain/Feingold Campaign Finance Act, and immigration. We have differences of opinion on how we ought to handle that.
Those are the fundamental differences. And I think there are other maybe nuances.
But, you know, one of the things that I find interesting, the two most civil campaigns of the Republican primary are the ones still on their feet. And I do think that says something about both the senator's campaign and ours. It looks like Republicans really are responding to a more message-driven and positive campaign.
I think that's good for our party. I'd like to say, I think it's good for America.
BLITZER: I know you've said you didn't major in math when you were in college, you majored in miracles...
HUCKABEE: Yes.
BLITZER: ... which is an excellent line, by the way.
You need 1,191 delegates at the Republican convention in St. Paul to be the Republican presidential nominee. Now, a lot of experts in math have done the math. They say there's no way you're going to get that, but there is theoretically a way you could prevent John McCain from getting 1,191 delegates.
And if on the first round he doesn't have that, it would go to the second round. Then all bets are off because the pledge delegates could vote for whoever they wanted.
Is that your strategy, to try to prevent him from getting 1,191 delegates going up to the convention in St. Paul?
HUCKABEE: Wolf, we're not smart enough to think that far down the road. We're trying to get through Kansas and Washington, Louisiana and then Virginia, and Maryland and the District of Columbia next Tuesday. And we'll start from there.
Our strategy has always been, let's stay in this game, let's keep gas in the tank and air in the tires until somebody gets 1191. And we're still there.
And, you know, we're not going to pretend that we know exactly how it's going to play out. I think everybody that has predicted how it's going to play out, one thing about it they're consistent in, they've all been wrong.
Nobody would have predicted where this race would be today even a month ago, certainly not five, six months ago. So when people are telling me what the math is and how it's going to work out, I'm saying, OK, you've been 100 percent wrong so far, why on earth are we going to believe that you've suddenly got it all figured out?
BLITZER: March 4th is an important contest in Texas, which is a big state. A lot of Republican delegates at stake there.
The Republican governor, Rick Perry, urged you to drop out of the contest now. How does that make you feel, when you hear the governor of Texas say to you, a former governor of Arkansas, not very far away...
HUCKABEE: Yes.
BLITZER: ... you know what, it's over for you Governor Huckabee, get out of this contest? HUCKABEE: It just makes me more motivated to go win. You know, the fact is he first endorsed Rudy Giuliani. Rudy's out of the race. Then he jumped on John McCain's team. Why would I really want to follow the advice of somebody who is supporting two other candidates instead of me?
So here's what I would say -- I've got a lot of strong support in Texas. I'll take Chuck Norris any day. Chuck's a Texan. I'll take his support and his wife, Gena's. And we're going to win Texas.
We've got great, great organization building there, and that's going to be a big state for us. And I don't know if you saw it, but the other night on "The Colbert Report," I took the state of Texas on an air hockey table. That was a prediction of things to come.
BLITZER: And you're saying Chuck Norris can take down Rick Perry? Is that what you're saying?
HUCKABEE: I would think even Rick Perry might acknowledge that.
But the point is, I'm not going to sit around and let people who don't support me dictate the direction of my campaign. Why would I do that? That would be insane.
Here's what I will tell you, Wolf -- not one supporter of mine, not one endorser of mine has come to me, publicly or privately, and said, you know, Mike, I really think it's time for you to get out. You know what they've done? They've gone to our Web site and they have lit it up with contributions.
Our people are going crazy. They're coming to our rallies, they're fired up. And they're saying, don't get out.
That's the message I'm getting from the people who support me. And so, I'm going to listen to those folks. They're the ones who got me this far. And until they tell me it's over, we're in this thing.
BLITZER: Governor Huckabee, congratulations once again.
Thanks very much for joining us.
HUCKABEE: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: We'll see you out on the campaign trail.
HUCKABEE: Bye-bye.
BLITZER: The Republican presidential candidate, Mike Huckabee.
Let's go to Mary Snow. She's in Washington. She's been covering this campaign now for some time.
This is an impressive win in Kansas. The question is, can he do it in these other states that are upcoming later tonight, as well as on Tuesday, Virginia, Maryland, and D.C.? MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, I think the key state to watch on Tuesday for Mike Huckabee is going to be Virginia, because, you know, tomorrow's he's going to Lynchburg and is going to be speaking at the church of the former Jerry Falwell. And, of course, you know, John McCain had called Jerry Falwell in 2000 -- referred to him as agents of intolerance.
He made peace with him before Reverend Falwell died, but, once again, Mike Huckabee is going to appeal to the right of the party. And whether or not he gets the delegates, these kinds of wins like the one today in Kansas is just underscoring the point that John McCain is having a tough time with conservatives as he's trying to unify the party.
BLITZER: Mary Snow in Washington for us.
Mary, thanks very much.
A projection to make right now. In the state of Nebraska, the winner, Barack Obama. We're projecting that Barack Obama will carry the Democratic caucus in Nebraska tonight, beating Hillary Clinton.
An important indication, perhaps, of where things are going on this night. Barack Obama winning the Democratic caucus, Campbell Brown, in Nebraska.
You know, that's a state that they both would have loved to have won, but only one can win.
BROWN: That's right. And he's been doing better in caucus states than she has, for the most part, overall.
Is that a factor this weekend?
KING: Absolutely. And it goes back to, I think, the Huckabee thing. The passion voters are with Obama right now on the Democratic side, as they are with Huckabee on the Republican side.
Campbell, I'm going through the lists of the contests, and it is conceivable, looking ahead, it is conceivable, not probable, but conceivable that Hillary Clinton could go almost three weeks without a victory. If Barack Obama can sweep the board tonight in these caucuses, and then pick up Virginia -- most people believe he'll win the District of Columbia next week, most people believe he'll win Maryland next week. If he can then pick up Virginia, which is the tightest battleground state in the contest, it is conceivable that Senator Clinton could go three weeks without a win.
Big states coming -- Ohio and Texas...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Well, that (INAUDIBLE) into those three weeks...
KING: But the question is, what is the psychology of the race? That's the big question among Democrats. The Clinton campaign says no big deal if that happens, we're going to go to Ohio, we're going to go to Texas, we will prove our point. But the question is, does something happen to the psychology of the race if he starts winning?
BROWN: Well, it sounds like Giuliani -- momentum, momentum, momentum.
BORGER: Well, you know, in this race, it's been different from all of the other races I've covered, because normally if you win a primary, you get a big bounce out of it, you get all that huge momentum going on to the next race. This time, because of the truncated type of race we're seeing, we haven't seen that.
Also, the margins are so tiny, and the way they're dividing the delegates are exactly even. The people are actually counting delegates more than they're counting states. And so, that might be right, but we're going to have to see who wins how many voters and how many congressional districts, and how many delegates Hillary Clinton winds up with even if she loses.
BROWN: And we should remind viewers about that, that for the Democrats, it is proportional representation.
KING: Proportional, right.
BROWN: So you're getting just almost an equal number of delegates, it seems, in each state.
TOOBIN: Yes. The Clinton campaign put out a statement earlier today -- well, you know, the Obama campaign was expected to win these primaries. It's like, so? That's because they got...
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: They won. The idea that you don't get credit for a victory where you're expected to win -- you know, you don't get extra credit for upsets.
You know, the fact is the Obama campaign is winning. And that's good. And you can spin all you want, but winning primaries, winning caucuses is the way you get the nomination.
BROWN: So what's been the struggle for them in these states? In particular, is it just the, you know, caucuses...
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: I think that's right. There have been -- I guess, counting Nebraska, it's eight out of nine that the Obama campaign has won. The only one they lost was Nevada, which was, you know, the highly publicized and very -- a very highly-contested caucus.
But, you know, these people are turning out in huge numbers, too. I think that's worth pointing out. The Democrats in every state are setting turnout records which is not just a good sign now, but a good sign for November. KING: And his resource advantage. I'll say that again -- his resource advantage.
Barack Obama has a resource advantage over the former first lady of the United States, the senator from New York. And so they're making a calculation, for the small number of voters that turn out to a caucus, we can't afford to spend money on television advertising, we can't send extra people in on the ground because we need to save our money for the Ohios, the Texas, potentially the Pennsylvania down the road.
So he has more money, he's allowed to put extra money into places where somebody a little short on money says they can't do it.
BROWN: Talk a little bit more about the money crunch. Because she admitted last week, too, that she had to borrow $5 million.
BORGER: From herself.
BROWN: From herself to support her campaign.
BORGER: Right.
BROWN: Hey, this is someone who had raised $100 million.
BORGER: Yes. And a lot of her supporters that I spoke with were sort of scratching their heads, saying, gee, I thought we had a lot of money in the bank. Well, I guess maybe we didn't.
Look, what's going on right now, Campbell, is that the Democratic coalition is split almost exactly down the middle between these two candidates. I was making a list today -- Obama: young people, Independents, more well-educated voters, African-Americans, men. She's got women, seniors, partisans, Latinos, voters without college education.
You're splitting the Democratic Party right down the middle, which is why it may be more likely now than not that this goes to a decision on the superdelegates at a convention.
BROWN: Or before the convention. I mean, it's remarkable.
You know, let's bring in Donna Brazile, who is down in Washington, D.C. And we should also mention, because we want to get into this a little bit later, Donna's also a superdelegate, which we'll talk about in a bit.
But Donna, give us your take on what's happened here. We mentioned the results just a moment ago of Barack Obama in Washington and also in Nebraska, obviously.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Senator Obama has invested not just resources in those caucus states, but he's also invested critical time and organized in many of these caucus states. That's one reason why he's doing so well in these so-called red states.
Nebraska, who would have thought just two months ago that Senator Obama would carry Nebraska. Senator Clinton had huge leads in all of these states toward the end of 2007. And the fact that Obama has been able to come from behind, put together a very interesting coalition of Democratic voters, as Gloria just mentioned, shows that he understands that, in order to win, you have to spread your so-called support, not just in traditional blue states, with traditional Democratic voters, but also reach out to those who probably would not have been in the Democratic column before.
BASH: But has anybody -- Donna, have you or anybody else on the panel changed your opinion about the fact that this is likely to be an extremely close race? Well beyond this weekend, well beyond, you know, the next few rounds?
BRAZILE: Well, I've been telling my fellow superdelegates to just, you know, buckle up, let's not panic. We have time to allow the voters in some really important states for Democrats to cast their ballots.
Look, Campbell, you're a Louisianian. It's amazing that today we're having a contest there where people are very excited. They think that both candidates paid attention, once again put the spotlight on the state, along with John Edwards, who left the race a couple of weeks ago.
But voters in Pennsylvania, voters in Ohio, those voters will help us sort this out. And before the superdelegates panic (ph), at least the 433 of us who may be uncommitted -- I'm uncommitted -- I think that we should give voters in all of these states an opportunity to cast their ballots. And of course, the party will also have to figure out what to do with the voters and the situation in both the states of Michigan and Florida.
BROWN: All right. Donna Brazile, who's going to be joining us from Washington throughout the night.
We want to go now to Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Campbell.
Let's take a look at Washington State right now.
Ninety-seven total delegates in the northwest Washington State. Right now, with 37 percent of the precincts reporting in this caucus there, Barack Obama leads decisively, with 67 percent to Hillary Clinton's 32 percent.
Let's take a look at the actual votes, the actual numbers coming in. And these are votes earlier. I incorrectly -- I incorrectly pointed out that these were delegate equivalent. These are the actual numbers coming in from the state of Washington.
Barack Obama with 8,842 to 4,178. Thirty-seven percent of the precincts reporting so far in Washington State.
And we're going to take a close look at Washington State as this night comes on, because it does potentially set some trends out there on the West Coast. Oregon coming up later, but Washington State for Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama an important state, and Obama winning decisively, at least right now, with 37 percent of the precincts reporting.
Remember, go to CNNPolitics.com. That's where you can see all the numbers coming in state by state, county by county. And a lot more information there, as well.
As I said before, and I'll say it again, watch us here on CNN, have a laptop with you ready to go to CNNPolitics.com for a lot of additional useful information.
John King is taking a close look at Washington State right now, what's happening there. We're going to go there right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to the CNN Election Center.
We're watching Washington State right now, with 97 delegates coming in. Barack Obama, with 42 percent of the vote in, 67 percent for Obama, 32 percent for Hillary Clinton.
Let's go over to John King and get a closer -- actually, let's pause for one second.
We're projecting -- CNN is ready to project that Barack Obama will carry the state of Washington. Sixty-seven percent in so far, 32 percent for Hillary Clinton. We can now project that this will be another state going for Barack Obama. An important state out in the Pacific Northwest.
Let's walk over to John King. He's going to tell us how he did this. Barack Obama the winner in Washington State.
John, you're looking very close at this state, which is a bellwether for Oregon and other states up in the Northwest, as well.
KING: Certainly in the Pacific Northwest. It is an area in general elections in recent years of Democratic strength, and it is another example tonight when we've been talking about this is how Barack Obama to date is outperforming, by big margins in some cases, including here -- 67 percent of the vote, our projection so far -- in the caucus states.
Now, as you see Washington State, it is a big swathe. The northernmost corner of the Pacific Northwest, of course. And most of the results coming in so far -- you see the blue here -- from these smaller rural counties. These are the counties where we've counted the results to the point where we can post them up.
But you see Senator Obama posting a huge number. Now, remember the Democratic rules. They are critical. The delegates are spread on a proportional basis. So...
BLITZER: Through congressional districts. KING: Through congressional districts. So we won't know for sometime, until we get the results, because here's the biggest area in the state, King County, where Seattle is. Redmond, of course, the home of Microsoft. That's almost 30 percent of the state population.
So, the congressional districts are located mainly around here where the population is. Tacoma, there's Pierce County just below. That's another 11 percent.
So, if you add these two in here, then you're getting into a sizable chunk of the population. We will need to see what the margins are in here, Wolf, to get a sense of the congressional vote as we move around. Then if you shrink the state back down, you can see he is winning so far out in the rural areas.
We're waiting for more result. These are starting to come in here. They came in, they went out. That means the results are updated.
BLITZER: He's the darker blue and she's the lighter blue.
KING: He's the darker blue, she is the lighter blue. If you see a county light up and then go white again, that means results are coming in and they're recalculating as we go.
One of the things we'll be able to show you tonight as we travel around the country, too, we'll take a look at Seattle here and bring it out. We can use Google map technology if we want to show you Seattle's a big city. But especially this will be relevant when we move on to New Orleans and Louisiana later in the night.
We can take you in closer and look at a city area if we're trying to point out a specific area in a congressional district. Here's Seattle here, of course. Redmond up here. It's the hope of Microsoft, as I said earlier.
So, we're adding more technology as we go to our board so that we can actually zoom you into a neighborhood if we think that is necessary as we go on. But as we watch the results come in, Barack Obama, again, proving his strength in caucus states.
The Clinton campaign says, well, we will see you down the road. But what Barack Obama is doing, especially if he keeps the 67 percent margin -- they went away, the results. Now we're back on the statewide. You see the result. If he's keeping margins like that, he will get the bulk of the delegates, but we need to go congressional district by congressional district to...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And I think I've managed to totally confuse our viewers in terms of the actual numbers. These are what they call delegate equivalents, as opposed to the hard number of voters coming in, 9,870 for Barack Obama to 4,661. I said that originally, then I changed it.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: But explain to our viewers how they come up with these so- called delegate equivalents.
KING: Each caucus is assigned a certain equivalent, and that's how they count the votes. So you're not necessarily getting hard hands, you know, counting every single hand in the room. Each caucus has a set equivalent number. And that is what is tallied up.
We will know later in the night, when we get final results -- and it may not be tonight, because we're way out on the West Coast, although this was done in the daytime -- as to how many people actually turned out. When we get that number, we'll certainly pass it on. But when you're counting a caucus vote, sometimes the results you see are not actually individual votes, they are just a percentage or an equivalent given to each caucus site.
BLITZER: And I see some more dark blue has popped up...
KING: Starting to come in.
BLITZER: ... even as we're speaking. I don't see any light blue popping up, at least not yet.
KING: One can assume if he's getting 67 percent of the vote, Wolf, that you're going to see a lot of dark blue as we go through tonight. But that is a key point to make.
This is -- again, some of the proportion is done on the statewide vote, but some of the proportionality is done based on congressional district. So, if Senator Clinton is going to come out of here with more delegates, she needs to start winning in places where there are congressional districts.
So, if you see her lighter blue come up, say, over here in Spokane, there's a congressional district anchored there. So perhaps she's gaining more strength. So that's one of the things to watch as we go on.
And we'll show you the overall delegate count a little bit later and explain why that is so important to come away with some delegates even if you're losing, because right now Senator Obama came in to the night a little behind Senator Clinton. If he continues what his campaign believes will be a strong night tonight, he'll move that bar along.
BLITZER: And two wins so far tonight for Barack Obama in Nebraska and Washington State. Two very different states, two to zero so far for Obama over Hillary Clinton.
All right. Stand by, John. We're going to continue looking at this map.
Campbell Brown is standing by with the best political team on television.
We'll take a quick break. We'll have some serious analysis of what's going on, on the Democratic and Republican side tonight.
Remember, CNNPolitics.com. You can get all the numbers as they come in. That's the best place to go right now, CNNPolitics.com.
And this additional note. We're standing by to hear from Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. They're speaking shortly in Richmond, Virginia.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to the CNN Election Center.
We're following the elections tonight in several states. There are several winners already.
Barack Obama doing very well. He's already won, according to our projection, in Nebraska, as well as Washington State. Mike Huckabee has already won in Kansas.
Hillary Clinton is in Richmond, Virginia, right now. She's getting ready to speak to the Jefferson-Jackson forum there, a big Democratic event. This is a prelude to Tuesday, when Virginia, Maryland, and Washington, D.C. hold their primaries.
Let's listen in to Hillary Clinton.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, so am I, and I am so ready to see Virginia in the winning Democratic column in November.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
I am -- I am delighted and honored to be here with you this evening. I want to thank delegate Jennifer McClellen (ph) for not only that introduction, but her commitment to public service and leadership.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
And it is a special treat to be here with Governor Tim Kaine and former governor Mark Warner...
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
... current Richmond mayor and former governor Doug Wilder.
I want to thank you so much for sending Jim Webb to the Senate.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
And I hope he will soon be joined by the next Senator Warner from the state of Virginia.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) And I want to acknowledge your congressional delegation Congressmen Moran and Scott and Boucher, and the executive director of the party, Amy Rigger (ph), who has done a wonderful job at this huge Jefferson- Jackson Day Dinner.
Now, let me ask you for a moment to imagine that it is finally January 20, 2009.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
Someone standing on the steps of the Capitol will place his or her hand on the bible...
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
... and be sworn in as the 44th president of the United States. Our task tonight is to make sure that president is a Democrat.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
Because after seven long years of George W. Bush, seven years of incompetence, corruption, and cronyism, seven years of governments of the few, by the few, and for the few, the next president will face tremendous challenges. As the president walks in to the Oval Office, waiting there will be two wars, an economy in trouble, the health care crisis, the energy crisis, all of the problems that I hear about every day from people across America.
People who whisper to me about the mortgages they can't afford, the medical bills that wiped out their life savings, the tuition bills that cut short their children's dreams. People who work the dayshift and the nightshift because they want the world for their children. People whose names don't make the headlines, but who have always written America's story.
It's about the woman who grabbed by hand and told me her insurance company wouldn't pay for the treatments her child needed. It's about the man who asked me what to do after his job was shipped overseas and he was told to train his replacement. It's about the couple so determined to send their daughter to college, they mortgaged their home with a subprime mortgage and now may lose that, as well. It's about the dedicated government employees who stop me and tell me that they are working hard despite the all-out assault on government workers by this administration.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
You know, for me politics isn't a game, it's not about who's up or who's down. It's about your lives, your families, and your futures. And isn't it about time you had a president who brought your voice and your values to your White House?
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
This election is also about all those Americans who want to seize this moment to build the kind of future that we know awaits. It's about teachers determined to see their students succeed in this new century. And young people hungry for opportunities their parents never dreamed of. It's about the businesses and the unions training people for green-collared jobs, the high-wage, high-skill, clean energy jobs of the future.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
It's about the scientists and researchers who want to do stem-cell research and find treatments and cures for devastating diseases.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
It's about our contractors and construction workers who want to rebuild America, from the bridges in Minnesota to the levees in New Orleans. It's about our men and women who wear the uniform of our country, who deserve a commander in chief who knows they are magnificent but that force should be used as a last resort, not a first resort.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
BLITZER: Hillary Clinton is speaking in Richmond, Virginia. Her husband, the former president, is speaking right now in Blacksburg, Virginia.
We're monitoring both of these speeches. If you go to CNN.com/live, you can see them live on your computer, as well.
We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're getting close to the top of the hour. The polls will be closing in Louisiana. There are Republican and Democratic primaries at stake, five minutes and 17 seconds to go.
Much more of our coverage from the CNN Election Center right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Only two minutes away from the closing of the Louisiana polls. These are primaries in Louisiana on the Democratic and the Republican side. We'll see what's happening in Louisiana.
Let's recap what has happened so far in this presidential contest.
These are all the Hillary Clinton wins to date. No states have been added to this light blue list, not yet today.
On the Obama wins today, two dark blue states have been added. Nebraska and Washington State, we've projected that Barack Obama will carry both of those states tonight.
And we're recapping, also, Mike Huckabee has carried Kansas, as well.
Let's go over to Campbell. She's got the best analysts watching all of this, as well.
A lot of excitement on an election like this for all of us news -- political news junkies.
BROWN: Absolutely, Wolf.
And let's talk a little bit about where things go from here.
If you're Barack Obama, how do you capitalize on the wins this weekend? And if you're the Hillary Clinton campaign, what do you need to do now?
John?
KING: If you're the Hillary Clinton campaign, you need to stop his momentum. And you can't keep saying, well, it doesn't count because it's a caucus, because the votes count. And guess what? The delegates count.
And he's winning by enough margins. Remember, you're right, the Democratic rules, we need to remember that all night and every night. As long as she gets 15 percent of the vote in a state, she will get some delegates. But he's winning by 65 percent in one state, 70 percent in another. That means he's going to start to catch up to her.
She's slightly ahead right now. She needs to buckle in and get him somewhere. He's favored in Maryland, favored in the District of Columbia.
She's speaking tonight in Virginia, as is he. Right now, that's the closest of the races. But even many people in her campaign think he will win that one, too.
BORGER: Between today and Tuesday you have 350 delegates at stake. That's a lot of delegates. And...
BROWN: You can't be that dismissive about it.
BORGER: You cannot. These margins are not good for her.
And also, it's one month, as John was pointing out earlier. It's one month of losing -- losing, losing, losing. If she does. You know, that's a big caveat there.
But he is favored heading into the primaries on Tuesday.
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