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Roger Clemens Testifies about Steroid Use; McCain, Obama Sweep Potomac Primaries; Two Confess to Helping Bhutto's Assassin; Attorney Sounds Off on Roger Clemens Testimony

Aired February 13, 2008 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: The pitcher and the trainer. He said/he said, all on the Hill today.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: What's at stake in today's testimony about the use of steroids and human growth hormone? And what do we know about HGH and how it's used?

LEMON: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN world headquarters here in Atlanta.

KEILAR: And I'm Brianna Keilar in for Kyra Phillips today.

LEMON: All right. The big story happening right now, baseball star Roger Clemens on the Hill. They've just taken a lunch break. And our Gary Tuchman is on his way to the camera to tell us all about this story, to give us the inside.

There have been some very interesting back-and-forths this morning. You're looking live at that hearing room there in Washington.

Here's what we know right now. Clemens says he never used performance enhancing drugs, ever. But his former trainer says that is simply not true. And Brian McNamee says he knows this, because he's the one who gave those drugs to Roger Clemens.

The baseball legend and his accuser sat just a few feet away from each other today on Capitol Hill, and they testified under oath. They contradicted each other repeatedly, on details both large and small.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have four sons, and you understand how young athletes admire players of your caliber. Can I look at my two children with a straight face and tell them that you, Roger Clemens, have played -- have always played the game with honesty and integrity?

ROGER CLEMENS, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PITCHER: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that would be, no doubt, that that's true?

CLEMENS: Without a question. I took no shortcuts. I can tell you about my -- my upbringing. There were -- you know, I've heard the thing about pampered athletes and million-dollar ball players. I've heard that from my own counsel. And I take a little offense to that, for the fact that my father passed away when I was 9 years old. My mother -- I was raised by great, strong women, my mother and my grandmother. They gave me my will and my determination.

I've had my work ethic, which again has come in question here by a man at this table that he made me -- he made me who I was. I didn't meet him until 1998. In 1997 I won the triple crown in pitching. I had already had over 200 wins.

But he coaxed me on a statement. He says he coaxed me to four Cy Youngs. And if you do the math, I would have nine Cy Youngs according to his math. And I don't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have seven.

CLEMENS: I have seven. Thank you.

My career, Mr. Congressman, didn't happen by accident. I worked extremely hard. I've had a great work ethic since I was in high school.

I didn't have a car in high school. I ran home, which my condominium or town home was about two miles from my house. My sister reminded me that when you went to the University of Texas, the only way I was going to further my education -- my mother didn't have the means. She worked three jobs. She didn't have the means to send me to college. So it came through the game of baseball which we love.

So it's very -- it's very hurtful to me and my family and to the children that look up to us. The congressman earlier, I guess he stepped out. My innocent sister-in-law was murdered, brutally murdered, because of drugs. It hurt our family.

My mother pulled my other athletic brother, my middle brother, if you will, my next older brother -- I have two brothers and three sisters -- out of college because of an incident that happened on campus involving marijuana. Pulled him out of campus. And I tip my hat to my brother. He went on to finish school and get his degree.

These are the values that we have, that I have. And that I will continue to have.

Somebody's tried to break my spirit in this room. They're not going to break my spirit. I'm going to continue to go out and do the things that I love to do, and try and be honest and genuine to every person I can be. It's the way I was brought up. It's what I know.

But you can tell your boys that I did it the right way and I worked my butt off to do it.

BRIAN MCNAMEE, CLEMENS' FORMER TRAINER: Make no mistake, when I told Senator Mitchell that I injected Andy Pettitte with performance- enhancing drugs, I told the truth. Andy Pettitte, who I know to be honest and decent, has since confirmed this.

And make no mistake, when I told Senator Mitchell that I injected Chuck Knoblauch with performance-enhancing drugs, I told the truth. Chuck Knoblauch has also confirmed this, as well.

And make no mistake, when I told Senator Mitchell that I injected Roger Clemens with performance-enhancing drugs, I told the truth. I told the truth about steroids and human growth hormone. I injected those drugs into the body of Roger Clemens at his direction.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Brian McNamee also said that, while he worked for Roger Clemens for a long time, he, quote, "never completely trusted him."

Clemens, for his part, says he treated McNamee, quote, "like family."

Again, Gary Tuchman was in those hearings, and he joins us now from the hearings.

Gary, he said that he worked for Roger Clemens. I want to get this. And the reason he said that -- he never completely trusted him -- is because of these photos of needles and vials and what appears to be, from the photos, steroid -- things from steroid use that he took pictures of and saved.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Don. We're not sure how significant that will be, even if Roger Clemens' DNA is on the syringes and on the needles. Clemens claims he got injections from his trainer of painkillers, vitamin B-12. We don't know if it will mean anything.

Here's what is significant. I'm a big baseball fan. I cover a lot of trials. And what I've seen this morning is one of the greatest pitchers in baseball history spinning himself into a very complicated legal web.

Yes, we knew beforehand that he said Brian McNamee is a liar. But basically, he's also said today that his wife is a liar. He says he's wholesome; he would never take anything that would do this to his body. His children are too important to him. Yet he, himself, has acknowledged that his wife, without telling him, Roger Clemens, got injections of human growth hormone from this trainer. And then Clemens is saying he kept the trainer, nevertheless.

He also says his wife had circulation problems and itching afterwards, but he didn't call a doctor. Why wouldn't he call a doctor? The inference is, among people who don't believe Clemens, is that he, too, was involved in this, and he couldn't call a doctor, so he had to let his wife suffer. He says he just didn't think it was serious enough. They decided -- they talked about calling a doctor. They decided not to.

But the most important single point is this: Andy Pettitte. Everyone likes Andy Pettitte. He's a pitcher, pitched for the Yankees a long time. He has acknowledged getting injections from McNamee.

He has also said that he had a conversation back in 1999 or 2000 with Roger Clemens where Roger Clemens talked to him about human growth hormone.

So Roger Clemens is saying today that "I think Andy Pettitte misheard or misremembered." What is being said among Clemens' people is that they talked about his wife getting the injections, but that was before the time period where they said the wife got the injection. So it's very confusing, very complicated.

And right now, even though McNamee has lied before, it doesn't look good.

LEMON: Well, Gary, I thought Clemens -- but Clemens testified all along that he had never had a conversation with anyone, especially his trainer, about steroids or about HGH at all.

TUCHMAN: Right. And that's why this has gotten so complicated.

And this thing with the wife is quite disturbing. I mean, first of all, he's mad at McNamee for doing this to his wife. He hasn't said anything during the hearing that he's mad at his wife for not telling him about doing it.

But the fact is, those who are saying Roger Clemens is not innocent, are saying that Clemens and his wife both did it (ph).

LEMON: Gary, quickly, talk to me about Brian McNamee's credibility here. Obviously, a former law enforcement, former police officer. Has family the same way. But his credibility is really on the line here. And that is what Roger Clemens is really trying to focus on, that -- that Brian McNamee is not credible.

TUCHMAN: Listen, if this goes to a court of law, you'd love to be Roger Clemens' attorney. Because when you have a guy who's admitted he lied in the past, you can attack his credibility.

But I will tell you, having -- covering many trials, there are lots of liars who prove to be reliable witnesses when they're told if you lie again you're going to get a lot of prison time, so you better tell the truth. This is your last chance.

LEMON: And real quick before I let you go, so you think these photos of alleged steroid paraphernalia, they won't come into play at this point? I mean, when you look at the photos, I mean, they seem pretty damaging. And they seem to be what they are. But who knows if they are actually from Roger Clemens. I don't know if they can do DNA testing on them. They are actually quite old. I think, what? 2001 or so?

TUCHMAN: Right, it's not just photos; he has the actual materiel. The problem is, though, even if it has Roger Clemens' DNA, if I'm Clemens' attorney, I'd say, "Hey, that's from when he got the B-12 shot."

LEMON: Right.

TUCHMAN: He neither got the steroids or the HGH shot.

LEMON: OK, all right. Gary Tuchman, now stand by. Thank you very much. You have any idea, Gary, real quick, how long they're going to be before they get back under way?

TUCHMAN: That's a good question. They're going at a good pace, so I don't know if it will take that much longer. But I will tell you, such a difference between being in a court of law, where attorneys ask succinct questions, get answers, and these guys, just frankly, a lot of them, a lot of the congressmen and congresswomen just blabbering on.

LEMON: Gary, we appreciate you telling us all about what's going on in court. We're going to rely on you a lot throughout the day. Thank you very much, national correspondent Gary Tuchman.

Much, much more on this story ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, including a question many of you may have as you hear the information about human growth hormone or HGH, as it's called. What exactly is it? And why -- why would it be used outside of pro sports?

Plus, the two men at the center of today's heated hearings. What happens if one is found to be lying? Would Roger Clemens or Brian McNamee be punished? We'll speak with a defense attorney who works inside the world of professional baseball -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Leading our political ticker today, the tight Democratic battle in the presidential race.

After his sweep in the Potomac Primaries, Senator Barack Obama is on the trail in Wisconsin, which holds its primaries next Tuesday. Hawaii's Democratic caucuses are also on tap that day, and Obama is expected to do well in both.

For Senator Hillary Clinton, it's on to Texas and Ohio. She's hoping to revive her campaign in those two delegate-rich states, which hold their primaries on March 4, the both of them. Among Senator Clinton's stops today, her south Texas campaign kickoff in McGowan (ph) and two other rallies in Texas, as well.

On the Republican side, frontrunner John McCain is in Washington today. He's meeting with the media and attending a fundraiser. The Arizona senator finished on top in yesterday's GOP primaries in D.C., Maryland and Virginia.

And McCain's Republican rival, Mike Huckabee, is heading to Wisconsin six days before that state's GOP primary. He's holding a rally there tonight. And despite his losses to McCain yesterday, Huckabee vows to keep his campaign moving forward.

Now with the Potomac Primaries decided, Senator Barack Obama has picked up even more momentum on the Democratic side. Senator John McCain is back on track on the Republican side.

And here's CNN's Wolf Blitzer with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): A political clean sweep for Barack Obama.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We won the state of Maryland. We won the commonwealth of Virginia. And, though we won in Washington, D.C., this movement won't stop until there's change in Washington, D.C., and tonight we're on our way.

BLITZER: The senator from Illinois topping rival Hillary Clinton by double digits in Maryland and Virginia, and beating her by three to one in the District of Columbia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

BLITZER: The senator from New York is already looking ahead. At a rally in El Paso, Clinton didn't acknowledge her loss in Virginia, which was reported by the time she took the stage. Instead, she kicked off her campaign in Texas.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to sweep across Texas in the next three weeks, bringing our message about what we need in America. The kind of...

BLITZER: For the Clinton campaign, it's now all about Texas and Ohio which vote in three weeks. Ohio, with its working-class voters, and Texas, with a large number of Latino voters, could be friendly territory for Clinton.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, voters, of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia for a clean sweep of the Potomac -- of the Chesapeake Primary.

BLITZER: For John McCain, some much-needed wins, after losing 2 of 3 contests this past weekend to rival Mike Huckabee.

But the senator from Arizona had a fight on his hands in Virginia before pulling out a victory. And according to exit polls, McCain lost the conservative vote and the evangelical vote to Huckabee.

McCain's the overwhelming frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination. But the former Arkansas governor says his staying in the race helps McCain.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The worst thing that could happen to the Republican eventual nominee is to go months without having the sharpness of a contest.

BLITZER: Now the campaign trail moves to Wisconsin and Hawaii, which hold contests next Tuesday.

Wolf Blitzer, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KEILAR: So here is where things stand in the delegate count.

For the first time, Barack Obama has passed Hillary Clinton in the total delegate count. He now has 1,253. Clinton has 1,211. Now, these numbers include both pledged and -- both pledged super delegates; 2,025 delegates are needed to clinch the Democratic nomination.

And on the Republican side, John McCain now has 827 delegates. Mitt Romney who, as you recall, suspended his campaign, has 286. Mike Huckabee, 217. Ron Paul, 16. Now these numbers include both pledged and unpledged delegates. It takes 1,191 delegates to win the Republican nomination.

Next week's stops on the campaign trail, Texas and Ohio, as we've said before. You can track all of the action from the campaign trail at CNNpolitics.com, plus analysis from the best political team on television. All that, and more, at CNNpolitics.com.

LEMON: The U.S. State Department says the world is a better place today after the reported death of a senior terror commander in Syria. Imad Mughniyah was on the FBI's most wanted terrorist list long before we ever heard of Osama bin Laden.

He's blamed for a role in the Beirut Marine barracks bombing in 1983 and hijacking of TWA Flight 847 two years later, in which a U.S. Navy diver was killed.

Mughniyah reportedly died in a Damascus car bombing last night. No word yet on who is responsible for that.

We're keeping an eye on the courthouse in Canton, Ohio, where a jury is deciding the fate of Bobby Cutts.

There's no denying the former police officer killed his pregnant girlfriend, Jessie Davis, last summer, then dumped her body in a field. He says her death was an accident. Prosecutors say it was intentional.

If convicted of aggravated murder, Cutts could get the death penalty. We'll go to the courtroom the moment we hear a verdict has been reached.

KEILAR: A mangled mess on a California freeway. Dozens of cars and trucks slammed into each other. We're going to take you into the fog.

LEMON: In Hawaii, a two-week-old infant is dead, and his grieving family blames U.S. Customs Service at Honolulu's International Airport. We'll tell you what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The heated baseball and steroids hearing on Capitol Hill is in a break right now. We're going to go back to it as soon as it resumes. But let's get some insight into the testimony so far. As you know, Roger Clemens was before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. And joining me now is Luis Fernando Llosa. He is a senior investigative reporter for "Sports Illustrated."

If you can just give us sort of your impressions, because it seems to me at this point you've got a he said/he said between Roger Clemens and his former trainer, Brian McNamee, who says he injected Clemens on several occasions. But there's also this he said/he said between Andy Pettitte and Roger Clemens. Pettitte, of course, saying that he was aware that Clemens was taking human growth hormone. What do you think?

LUIS FERNANDO LLOSA, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": It's been a bit of a crazy day. It's only 1 p.m. already here, and there's been that back and forth between Clemens, who certainly continues to repeat that Pettitte is an honest person and he respects him as a friend, but there's that wrangle between them about when -- when and if Pettitte ever had discussions about HGH with him and whether it was about Clemens' wife.

I mean, this -- this whole -- this whole situation has sort of devolved into issues about, you know, an abscess that appeared on Clemens' buttocks and whether it was B-12 or Winstrol that caused that, Winstrol being a major steroid, a performance enhancer, and B-12 being pretty much an innocuous substance believed to help boost your energy.

And so you know, you have all these different questions. And you have McNamee talking about the pink bikini that -- that Clemens' nanny purportedly was wearing when she was trying to keep Clemens' child from running into a pool at a party that Clemens says he was never at.

I mean, this just -- it's just more and more he said/he said. And very interesting. It made a very good show.

KEILAR: And -- and Luis, also you know, they're really getting into the nitty-gritty, some of what we've heard, some of the members of Congress, trying to find these discrepancies between McNamee and Clemens, as far as when there were meetings, when there were injections, when there were alleged acquisition of steroids.

LLOSA: Right.

KEILAR: I mean, are there any discrepancies that, really, you think cause a particular problem for Clemens or that really stand out in your mind?

LLOSA: Well, I think -- I think the biggest problem with the issue of -- of his wife and the injections and the credibility for Clemens is that he's saying that Pettitte -- he and Pettitte never discussed HGH, and then he's saying that his wife and he talked about it when she had problems with blood circulation because of it.

And you know -- and then that -- and then he's saying that he never consulted a doctor about that, but he was concerned about it. But he's going back to saying that he never really knew anything about HGH. He was grilled about that.

And McNamee, of course, has been grilled repeatedly about the different lies that he's told over time up to now. I mean, he's -- he's definitely admitted to having lied -- lied at some point during the Mitchell report, lied to investigators at different points. And so some of the committee members are saying, "You've told lie after lie after lie after lie after lie. Why should we believe you now?" And it's a good question.

KEILAR: Yes, and certainly -- certainly, McNamee's credibility being questioned in this case.

And we're going to let you go. Thank you so much. Luis Fernando Llosa, senior investigative reporter for "Sports Illustrated." This hearing before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee getting back under way now. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and his wife saying they remember you not being there, and being hurt that you weren't there. We have contemporaneous sportscaster reports noting that you were not there. We have your golf ticket that you've given us that is -- shows you probably couldn't have been there, although maybe it's possible. We have a number of other people who were interviewed say they don't remember you there.

So when they talked to your nanny, they understandably were trying to find out what she knew about it. This committee had no way to reach her except through you. Is that, Mr. Clemens, right, Mr. Clemens?

CLEMENS: That's correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We could never have interviewed her, had you not intervened and found her. Is that correct?

CLEMENS: That's correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And for her -- her English, as I understand it, is not that good. Is that correct?

CLEMENS: It's not that good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she probably never testified before a Congressional committee or Congressional investigators before either.

CLEMENS: Never.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So understandably would be reluctant to do that. Can you just give us the circumstances of your -- obviously, if you hadn't contacted her, we probably never would have never been able to find her and been able to interrogate her. Can you just give us, from your perspective, how you contacted her, what meetings, what was said at that point so we can put this into an appropriate perspective?

CLEMENS: Yes, Mr. Congressman. I was told on Friday that our nanny or sitter at the time, back at that time period, was wanting to -- that they wanted to talk to her.

And I reached out to her and made the phone call, and that was it. I haven't talked to her in -- I don't know how many years it's been, but we hadn't talked to her since. And I know when she came to the house, it was great to see her. We hadn't seen her in a long time.

And that's basically the conversation. I said that we're all trying to remember some kind of party at Canseco's house. I know that I golfed at that house, and I golfed, and then we had a golf game. And I'm -- I'm not totally positive that I wouldn't have taken back my wife and dropped her off at the house.

I believe that the nanny was there with my kids. They sure could have been. They could have gone over there in the afternoon after the party. But I was focused on what I was asked, Congressman, was about attending a party. So...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A barbecue. A barbecue in particular. Right?

CLEMENS: A -- yes, a barbecue or a luncheon or something of that nature. So could I have gone by the house later that afternoon and dropped my wife or her brother-in-law, the people that golfed with me? Sure, I could have.

But at the time of the day that I would express it to be, I was on my way to the ballpark. I would have to have gotten to the ballpark extremely early. I know one thing: I wasn't there having -- huddled up with somebody, trying to do a drug deal. I know that for sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this was what? Eight years ago? Nine years ago?

CLEMENS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

Mr. McNamee, let me ask you, did you ever use Roger Clemens' likeness without his permission?

MCNAMEE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever obtained a doctorate degree from a college or university?

MCNAMEE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you explain it to us, how you obtained it?

MCNAMEE: I attained it when I was in Toronto in -- at the end of '98. And it was a situation where the -- at the time I was living in Toronto, so I was looking for something I can do correspondence-wise. And I applied to several different colleges at the time, and I got accepted to Columbus University in Maryland, Louisiana, and started to get courses in accordance to nutritional counseling to achieve the Ph.D. in nutritional counseling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many courses did you take?

MCNAMEE: It was 11 courses and, upon completion, a dissertation. I took every course. And what it was, was they would mail you the coursework. I would take it, write a thesis paper at end of the -- at the end of when I finished on my time, when I did it, as fast as I could do it, and submit it and get graded. And moving forward to the dissertation work at the end of the coursework.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you finish?

MCNAMEE: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you write a dissertation?

MCNAMEE: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was the subject of the dissertation?

MCNAMEE: The subject was weight training, supplementation (ph) and improving miles per hour on a fast ball with pitchers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be an interesting one to read. Have you ever told law enforcement investigators that you held a doctorate in behavioral sciences?

MCNAMEE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not what your doctorate was in, was it?

MCNAMEE: No, it's behavioral sciences with a concentration in nutritional counseling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So did you -- you held yourself out as a doctor, then, to athletes...

MCNAMEE: Ph.D.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ph.D. Can you tell us a little bit about the university? Does it have a campus?

MCNAMEE: As I found out later, no, it doesn't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this what you call a diploma mailed (ph) to some extent?

MCNAMEE: As I found out later on, yes, it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. On the checks you wrote Kurt Radomski and printed in the appendix of the Mitchell report, page D-11, you list yourself as Dr. Brian McNamee. At that point you still feel you could hold yourself out in good faith as a doctor? MCNAMEE: I'm not sure if I follow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the checks you wrote Kurt Radomski, you printed in the appendix during the Mitchell report, you list yourself on the checks as Dr. Brian McNamee. This was in good faith? Doctor -- you still hold yourself out as a doctor, right?

MCNAMEE: I'm sure if that was on my business account, then I probably did. It was a business check.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I see my time is up. But let me just ask quickly, did you ask Roger Clemens and Andy -- Andy Pettitte's permission to use pictures in one of your advertisements, which promotes McNamee, Dr. Brian McNamee, "who's widely recognized for his work with Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Jorge Posada, Mike Stanton and many other star athletes"?

MCNAMEE: No, I never asked their permission.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Davis. Mr. Davis on our side.

REP. DANNY DAVIS (D), ILLINOIS: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Clemens, it was a pleasure to meet with you last week.

Mr. Chairman, in your question, you asked whether it was appropriate for Mr. Clemens to meet with his nanny. A fact witness on Sunday before the committee spoke with her. You did not ask the one lawyer on the panel his view. So I'd like to ask Mr. Schieler (ph), a former federal prosecutor, is it usual for a client to meet with a fact witness, as Mr. Clemens did?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that is not usual. I don't know any of the facts and the circumstances about these meetings, other than what I've heard today. But what I will tell you from my experience is...

LEMON: Congressman Danny Davis from Illinois there, doing the last part of that questioning, questioning representatives, also questioning Brian McNamee. And of course, Roger Clemens taking the stand there in front of this House oversight committee hearing on steroids.

It's been a very interesting day when it comes to this. We have people standing by listening, so you won't miss any of it. As soon as something come -- breaks -- makes news or is something very interesting, we'll bring it to you live. We'll break whatever we're doing, and we're going to bring it to you.

We want to ask you a question, to our viewers: who do you believe? That's the question we're posing in today's QuickVote at CNN.com. Is Roger Clemens telling the truth, or is his former trainer's account more credible than his? Or are neither telling the truth? Logon to CNN and vote at CNN.com. Now, here's the voter breakdown as it stands right now. Do you believe Clemens on McNamee or neither? Well, 19 percent of you believe Clemens; 36 percent believe McNamee. And I guess the rest believe neither. So there you go. We'll continue to follow this developing story throughout the day here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

In the meantime, we have some breaking news to tell you about as it concerns the death of Benazir Bhutto. We want to get Reza Sayah. She's in Islamabad, Pakistan, on the phone now. He is in Islamabad, Pakistan. Pardon me.

So tell me, does this have to do -- what does this have to do with her death? Someone confessing to maybe harboring or helping the person who is responsible for her death, Reza?

REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don. This is a major development tonight in the investigation into the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.

According to Pakistani authorities, two young men that they have in custody have confessed tonight to helping the suicide bomber. According to Pakistani authorities, the two men made their confession two hours ago before a magistrate.

The two young men are identified as Hosni Ghul (ph). The second man just goes by the one name of Rafakat (ph). According to Pakistani authorities, they told the magistrate tonight that they helped the suicide bomber, who was identified as Saeed Bilal. They were at the scene of the killing on December 27.

They gave Saeed Bilal, the suicide bomber, a place to stay the night before. They also gave him a suicide jacket and a pistol.

According to Pakistani authorities, these two men told the magistrate that Saeed Bilal wanted to go inside the rally to carry out this killing. He didn't make it inside the killing [SIC] so he carried out the suicide bombing outside the rally, you will recall, on December 27.

These two men were picked up by Pakistani authorities on February 7, last week, one day before the Scotland Yard finished its investigation into how Benazir Bhutto died. You'll recall their investigation concluded that it wasn't gunshots. It's -- Benazir Bhutto was killed as a result of the impact of the blast.

The question remains who are these two men connected to? That information we do not know yet, but again, some major developments tonight. These two men say they helped the suicide bomber. Pakistani authorities say they're involved in a larger network. But what that network is about and who the mastermind was, that remains to be seen -- Don.

LEMON: And Reza, I guess since we don't know exactly those questions that you just asked, we don't know exactly what their charges are, if they're going to be charged in the death of Benazir Bhutto or if they're just going to be charged with averting justice or with possibly harboring criminals.

SAYAH: Yes. It's safe to say they're going to be charged with something, especially with this confession.

But again, Pakistani authorities have made it clear that they're confident that this is part of a larger network. I know the CIA, as well as Pakistani authorities, believe the mastermind of this killing was Beitullah Masud, a militant who's connected with al Qaeda, but they haven't revealed what they believe that connection is.

But certainly, these two men, look for them to be charged sometime in the near future -- Don.

LEMON: Reza Sayah in Islamabad, Pakistan, thank you so much for that report.

KEILAR: Broken glass and mangled cars on a foggy freeway south -- what are we taking a look at here?

LEMON: It's the NEWSROOM.

KEILAR: All right. We're having a -- here we go! All right. This is something that a television crew captured, a foggy pileup, actually, near Fresno, California. This is really amazing video. We're going to show you some more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Thirty-six past the hour. Here are three of the stories we're working on for you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

With his legacy and reputation on the line, baseball great Roger Clemens faces tough questions on Capitol Hill about alleged steroid use.

More money in your pocket and a hope for a boost for the U.S. economy. President Bush gets ready to sign an economic stimulus package.

In Ohio, former police officer Bobby Cutts Jr., who's charged with killing his pregnant lover, waits on the jury's decision. We've got the latest for you.

KEILAR: And the bulls have been in control on Wall Street today. Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange to tell us why we're seeing a rally.

Hi, there, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brianna.

It's almost like, why ask why? When it happens, well, let's just savor the moment. But it could be a three-peat, Brianna, because if the Dow closes higher, this would be three days of consecutive gains. Why is that? All right, I will answer it. Retail sales unexpectedly rose in January. Overall sales rose just 0.3 percent, but in December we actually saw a decline. This report is a much broader one than on consumer spending than the chain store sales we told you about last week.

January increases were led by strong car and gas-station sales, but excluding those sectors, sales were flat. And sales fell in housing-related areas such as building materials, furniture and so on.

What's building right now is the Dow Industrials. Check it out on the big board. The blue chips up right now about 146 points, or 1.1 percent. The NASDAQ, meanwhile, is up 1.8 percent.

Tech stocks climbing on strong results from applied materials. Shares of EMAT are up nearly six percent on big demand for flat-panel displays and solar panels.

Coca-Cola shares, meanwhile, are slightly lower, despite a nearly 80-percent jump in quarterly profits. Its non-carbonated drinks, which include waters, juices and teas, actually saw much bigger sales growth than its soda -- Brianna.

KEILAR: So can we put aside housing worries for one day or no? Just curious.

LISOVICZ: It would be nice, wouldn't it, Brianna? But we always do have a housing-related story.

A report in the "Wall Street Journal" today underscores why the housing crisis is as bad as it is. Distressed homeowners were simply not getting much help last year.

The "Journal" says only 36,000 calls to a help hotline from a White House program that was rolled out in December. And new loan terms were worked out for less than 10,000. That's just a small fraction of those in trouble.

That program called for the mortgage industry to freeze interest rates or expedite refinancing for potentially hundreds of thousands of subprime borrowers, so -- so long as they were current on their payments.

Yesterday's Project Lifeline, which we talked a lot about, is designed to help a broader range of homeowners. And hopefully, it will have better results.

Coming up, we've seen a housing bubble. Could we see an auto loan bubble next? I'll tell you about a disturbing new trend in car loans in the next hour of NEWSROOM -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, that is disturbing. Thank you. Susan Lisovicz from the New York Stock Exchange.

LEMON: All right. Now back to this. There are live pictures now. You see Roger Clemens there. He has been testifying all morning. The Rocket under fire. All-star pitcher and prospective Hall of Famer, Roger Clemens, he's testifying under oath today before members of Congress investigating the use of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball.

Among today's highlights, committee members grilling Clemens' over former teammate Andy Pettitte's testimony that Clemens told him he did use human growth hormone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now Mr. Clemens, I'm reminding you that you are under oath. Mr. Clemens, do you think Mr. Pettitte was lying when he told a committee that you admitted using human growth hormones?

CLEMENS: Mr. Congressman, Andy Pettitte is my friend. He will be my -- he was my friend before this; he will be my friend after this. And again, I think Andy has misheard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. Andy has misheard.

Joining us now, attorney Stan Brand. Brand served as legal counsel for Major League Baseball back in 2005 during a congressional investigation into its steroid policies.

Thank you, sir, for joining us.

STAN BRAND, ATTORNEY: Good to be with you.

LEMON: This is explosive, isn't it?

BRAND: Well, it is. It's -- you know, it's a lot of fireworks. People under oath, and they're at risk.

LEMON: What's at risk here? What are the legal ramifications of this? If somebody is lying, then this is perjury.

BRAND: Well, that's the question. They're under oath, and so they are subject to federal perjury and obstruction of justice statutes. The rub is, that you have to prove those things in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt.

So it's not enough to just have a swearing contest between two people. You have to have evidence that corroborates one side or the other. That, in this case, at least so far, is very thin.

LEMON: OK, so you have to prove that in a court of law. And you think the evidence is very thin on both sides?

BRAND: Well, again, you have to prove that somebody is lying and intentionally and knowingly gave the committee false information.

LEMON: OK. What about, you know -- apparently Mr. McNamee has this drug paraphernalia, he says, and the photo -- we've seen the photographs. But apparently, he had it in his possession.

BRAND: Yes.

LEMON: What happens if the DNA does show that it was Roger Clemens? Is that enough?

BRAND: No. We're a couple steps away from that. No. 1, it has to be tested by the government.

LEMON: Right.

BRAND: It would have to turn up not only DNA but evidence of steroids.

LEMON: Does...

BRAND: If, in fact, it did, at that point there is serious chain of custody issues, because this hasn't been in possession of the government. This has been in a shoe box in Brian McNamee's closet. In a trial, you would have to prove that it hasn't been tampered with and hasn't been tainted by some third party.

LEMON: OK. If this is -- if this is tough to prove on both sides, and you said it's kind of thin here, then why is Congress investigating this? Or someone who, you know, it appears his credibility may not be up to par, and then someone who's denying it flatly?

BRAND: I can't answer that, because I can't discern a legitimate legislative purpose behind any of these hearings. I couldn't in 2005, and I can't today.

LEMON: OK.

BRAND: The Congress isn't responsible for trying people. It's responsible for writing laws. No one in the committee has suggested how this is relevant to any legislative purpose that they currently have before them.

LEMON: OK. Let's talk about credibility here, because I mean, you know, this guy is a hero to many people and is a major sports star. Let's talk about credibility. One -- one of the congressmen questioned Mr. McNamee about "what if you're not telling the truth?" How is Roger Clemens ever going to get his credibility back? Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAN BURTON (R), INDIANA: You know, Roger Clemens, unless it's proven that he used steroids, and so far I haven't seen anything like it. If he did, he ought to be held accountable.

But Roger Clemens is a baseball -- he's a titan in baseball. And you and, with all these lies, if they're not true, are destroying him and his reputation. Now how does he get his reputation back if this is not true? And how can we believe you, because you've lied and lied and lied and lied?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, Mr. Brand, stand by. In a round-about way Roger Clemens may answer for himself. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCNAMEE: When I told Senator Mitchell that I injected Roger Clemens with performance-enhancing drugs, I told the truth. I told the truth about steroids and human growth hormone. I injected those drugs into the body of Roger Clemens at his direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I misspoke. I should say that Mr. McNamee may have answered for himself.

So what do you make of that? Again we're saying -- you know, he's saying he's telling the truth and that...

BRAND: Right.

LEMON: ... and how does he get his reputation back? Let's say all of this is for naught. How does he do that? Can he?

BRAND: Well, he can't, because once the cloud has been, you know, put over his head, it's very hard to blow it away.

And that's the case in all these situations. You know, you have a government informant who's cooperating and, you know, singing for his lunch, basically. He's not a person necessarily of, you know, the greatest integrity.

LEMON: Yes.

BRAND: So you have to weigh that.

LEMON: OK.

BRAND: You have to balance it.

LEMON: You were at the 2005 hearings. And I have to let you go, because we need to move on.

BRAND: Sure.

LEMON: But quickly, you can tell us, because you've been here before in many ways. What might we see next? What is next for this?

BRAND: I mean, look, steroids in baseball is -- is, you know, a thing of the past now that there's drug testing. Some of these designer drugs are harder to catch. But the era these players are talking about is over.

LEMON: And for Roger Clemens?

BRAND: Again, how he gets back his reputation if, in fact, he has not been, you know, a user of steroids is anybody's guess.

LEMON: OK. But again, if he's perjured himself, that's possible jail time because he is under oath.

BRAND: He would have a problem.

LEMON: OK. Thank you very much, Mr. Brand. We're going to go back to the hearings now live and listen in. Thank you again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Lytocane injection in your low back when you were having low back problems. Do you remember that?

CLEMENS: That's correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever have you -- did he ever administer a test dose of Lytocane before he gave you the full dosage?

CLEMENS: The amount that he gave me did give me comfort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he give you -- did he have you hooked up to an EKG monitor when he gave you that dosage?

CLEMENS: No, did he not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See, the problem I'm having, Mr. Clemens, is these are medical procedures we're talking about. Regulated, professional activities. And you're getting treatments from someone who has no medical licensure to even administer these injections, or to perform chiropractic care.

And I guess I have a question, as a highly-paid professional athlete, why you would trust your body, which puts food on your table and takes care of your family, to somebody who has no professional training to take care of you?

CLEMENS: Again, he told me that he was a Ph.D., and I do trust him. I am a trusting person.

Congressman, I would not doubt any of the trainers or doctors that would -- I would trust them not to harm me just like you're talking about. I would trust them not to harm my body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Issa?

REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: Thank you. And following up on that, it seems like Ph.D. must stand for "pile it higher and deeper."

Isn't it true, Mr. Clemens, that Mr. McNamee was at times paid by professional baseball, in addition to work he did for you?

CLEMENS: That's correct.

ISSA: OK. So shame on professional baseball, with their tens of millions of dollars of experts, for doing that.

And quite honestly, for my colleague, yesterday I told the committee in front of a hearing about my mother getting B-12 shots from our family physician. She was pre-menopausal and simply a little -- a little anemic, she thought. And the scientist who was the foremost expert we could find on B-12 basically told us there's not a really good test for a small deficiency.

So the truth is, taking it, which cannot hurt you, might help you, and it's not easily tested for. But of course that was yesterday's hearing. Now we go to today's.

I'd like to thank the chairman and ranking member for the past work they've done. In looking through the Mitchell report, I find that throughout the early '80s, under Kuhn and then Peter Ueberroth, we had a rampant problem with cocaine and other drugs being abused and little or no ramification for it.

Years of work went by, and in 2002 they had a mayor contract negotiation, oddly enough with the same Don Fehr who was the union negotiator, and they got an agreement with no teeth in it.

So it was due to the chairman and ranking member's work in '05 that I believe we can all say that baseball began cleaning up with real testing and real enforcement, and for that I'm really thrilled.

Last, I'm very thrilled that the chairman announced this would be the last hearing on baseball for the time-being, and I think that's appropriate. I think we've done our job.

But since we have the Mitchell report in front of us, and since a portion has been drawn into question, I'd like to focus us back on the Mitchell report.

And I'll start with you, Mr. Clemens. Do you believe, other than the allegations of some areas that you say are incorrect as to you, that, as far as you know, the rest of the report is accurate, well done and reflects the need to clean up baseball?

CLEMENS: Congressman, I have not read the entire Mitchell report, but along the lines that you're speaking, I do believe baseball is going in the right direction.

I believe that the testing is good; it's intrusive. I wish I could remember the -- I believe it was one of the congressmen or women that brought something up I do that was surprising to me, that there was a study about the players getting the Ritalin. And, again, I'm not an expert. But if it's some type of speed, I think that needs to be possibly looked into.

But I do believe that baseball is going in the right direction.

ISSA: Excellent. Mr. Schieler (ph), you have read the report, obviously, and are a participant in it. Do you believe that, other than this area that we're dealing with today, that your -- you stand by your report and believe that it is good work? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We stand by our report with respect to the entirety of it, yes.

ISSA: Even though Mr. Canseco says that there were material flaws in it, and he's presented information? I mean, I guess the question is, do you -- you are saying you stand by it, including allegations by third parties that there are flaws, including video of saying that, in a sense, that Mr. Clemens wasn't at a particular place that you say he was at. You don't see that as at least opening the door for some doubt on a small portion of this report?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I stand by the report.

ISSA: OK, that's fine. And to be honest, the part I wanted was you think you did good work. Mr. Clemens thinks, for the most part, you did good work.

Mr. McNamee, I realize that you're both a principal and a participant. Do you think this...

LEMON: All right. We're continuing to monitor that. And for more on the congressional hearings into steroids and pro baseball, you can see the testimony live and uninterrupted on either of our sister stations, Headline News, or live video streaming of the proceedings at CNN.com/live. Again, Headline News or CNN.com/live.

I want to get back now to attorney Stan Brand. Brand served as a legal counsel for Major League Baseball back in 2005 during congressional investigations into its steroid policies.

They're going over to me, it appears to me, in fine detail when it comes to Roger Clemens' testimony and when it come to Roger Clemens in the Mitchell report. Now he responded. What's the significance here, Mr. Brand?

BRAND: Well, of course, George Mitchell didn't have subpoena power, and he had to rely on people voluntarily talking to him. None of the players chose to do that, which was their right.

So -- and Mitchell's standard for deciding whether to make all this public was obviously much lower than there would be in a criminal case brought against somebody for lying to the committee. So they're really two different -- two different forums.

LEMON: So that's why the whole thing about your housekeeper, your cleaning lady. You helped us get in touch with you and what have you.

So most of what he has said, the things that are in the Mitchell report, are of his own accord. Could this come back to haunt him in some way or to bite him in the rear end in some way?

BRAND: Mr. Clemens?

LEMON: Yes. BRAND: Oh, absolutely. Because sitting in the audience is Jeff Nowitzki (ph), who is the IRS agent, criminal agent who brought the Barry Bonds perjury case and the BALCO Labs cases out in San Francisco. And he's listening to all this testimony. I'm sure the Justice Department is going to be weighing whether they think somebody has lied and whether they should go forward on that.

LEMON: OK. Mr. Brand, stand by. Thank you very much for that. We have a lot of breaking news happening today.

Meantime, we want to get you to Washington. The president, right, Brianna?

KEILAR: That's right. Let's -- we're going to soon be going to the White House. We're going to show you President Bush. He'll be signing the economic stimulus package. So all of those folks out there waiting for your tax rebate checks, you're going to want to check this out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: As we've been monitoring this hearing up on the Hill, where Roger Clemens is testifying before Congress, you know, we've heard a lot today about performance-enhancing drugs, such as steroids and HGH, or human growth hormone.

And to help us gain a little understanding about these drugs, we're joined now by CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

So what's up here?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, a lot of people, I think, know about steroids. We've been hearing about those for years.

But all this human growth hormone talk today might have people confused. You don't hear about that one as much. And in some ways, the two substances are similar, because they are synthetic versions of things that our body produces already.

We have human growth hormone in our bodies. It's at especially high levels among kids and teens as they're growing. And what this is, this is a synthetic version of that.

So let's look at Human Growth Hormone 101.

It is injected, usually daily, and it requires a prescription. The theory is that it will make you stronger, bigger, faster, better. One person we talked to said they even found that it was a fountain of youth. That was the term that he used.

KEILAR: Yes, but is it really a fountain of youth? Does it really make people stronger?

COHEN: You know, the studies that have been done and the people that we've talked to who are familiar with this say, look, it is going to give you some more lean muscle. It is going to lower your body fat, but that the studies, the experience has shown that it doesn't really make you all that much stronger.

That it really -- I hate to put it this way, but steroids are better at that. Steroids are going to make you stronger than human growth hormone.

KEILAR: Now, there's something we've been hearing that really struck me. For instance, Andy Pettitte says that he used HGH to help recover from an injured elbow or a sore elbow. I mean, I think a lot of people are used to hearing people take cortisone shots or something like that.

Is that true? I mean, could you really take HGH? Or is this kind of just something that they're trying to use to get out of why they used it?

COHEN: Well, it is a little bit odd, I have to say. When we talk to doctors about this. The standard of care is not to give human growth hormone when you have a sore elbow. Your doctor is going to give you anti-inflammatories, maybe cortisone, tell you to rest, physical therapy. But human growth hormone is not going to be on the list of what most doctors will do. And so that's -- I think is an important thing to remember.

And one of the reasons is that human growth hormone can have some downsides. It's not this miracle drug. For example, it can give some people joint pain. There is a suggestion, a possibility, that it could lead to cancer. It can give some people swelling.

So there's a reason why this isn't used by doctors. And in fact, federal rules even say, don't use this stuff unless someone has a specific growth hormone deficiency, which most people don't have.

KEILAR: Yes. So interesting. Really appreciate it. Elizabeth, thanks.

LEMON: As we continue to follow the hearings on Capitol Hill, we're also going to go to Washington, as well. The White House where the president, we're waiting on him to sign the stimulus bill. We're live from the White House in just a moment. There's a crowded room. You won't miss any of it.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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