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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Controversy Over Michelle Obama's Statements
Aired February 18, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight presidential politics, another spouse out of control, and the damage could be severe this time. Texans going to the polls in two weeks, they have plenty to go angry about including a proposal that has infuriated Texans, a proposal to build a super highway from our border with Mexico across Texas all the way to Canada. We will have all that, all the day's news and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for February 18. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. Senator Clinton's campaign today accusing Senator Obama of plagiarism. The Clinton campaign saying Obama quote, "lifted rhetoric, as they put it, from Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick. Senator Obama acknowledged using some of Patrick's phrases, but he tried to play down the significance.
Meanwhile, Senator John McCain today won another key endorsement, this time from former President George H.W. Bush. We have extensive coverage of presidential politics tonight beginning with Candy Crowley in Chicago -- Candy?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That eight mil record since February 9th means Barack Obama is under the burden of great expectations and under heavy assault from Hillary Clinton who is trying to define him as all rhetoric and rally.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you are not involved, if young people essentially are not involved to that we can form a working majority for change, then nothing is going to happen, so I make no apologies for being able to talk good.
CROWLEY: In need of a win, she is attacking his plans as copies of hers and this prose as someone else's.
OBAMA: Don't tell me words don't matter. I have a dream, just words. We owe these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, just words. We have nothing to fear, but fear itself, just words.
CROWLEY: This is now Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick responding to his opponent in 2006.
GOV. DEVAL PATRICK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Just words, we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, just words.
CROWLEY: In an hour long conference call pushing the issue with reporters, the Clinton campaign said for Obama to use Patrick's words without attribution quote, "calls into question the premise of Obama's candidacy." Governor Patrick says he doesn't care. Obama says the two are buds.
OBAMA: That would be carrying it too far. Deval and I do trade ideas all the time and he's occasionally used lines of mine and I at a J.J. dinner in Wisconsin used some words of his. I would add that I noticed Senator Clinton on occasion has used words of mine as well.
CROWLEY: Things got slightly more voter relevant later in Youngstown, Ohio when Obama talked jobs and the North American Free Trade Agreement put together in the Clinton era.
OBAMA: One thing I do have to say about Senator Clinton she says while speeches don't put food on the table, well you know what, NAFTA didn't put food on the table here in Youngstown either.
CROWLEY: During his campaign Hillary Clinton has said all trade deals should be reviewed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: It will not surprise you, Lou that depending on which campaign you talk to, this rhetoric problem is either indicative of a larger problem that Obama has or it is just petty. I'll let you decide, Lou.
DOBBS: Well I would love to be able to decide based on some evidence. One, what language of Obama's has Deval Patrick used?
CROWLEY: Well I mean that's part of the problem. Now they have said as far back as a year ago, the two of them said we trade ideas all the time. We in fact do use each other's words, so there is a history of their saying that. As far as the specifics of it, I'm not sure at this point.
DOBBS: Well I think that's probably one that we should research very carefully because it's either a rhetoric problem or it is a character problem or it is both, but it is not in any way it seems to me petty to try to understand why two men would be using the same constructs in rhetoric and presumably meaning. And also I personally just between you and me, Candy, I resent the idea that either of these men would refer to I have a dream or all we have to fear is fear itself or we hold these truths to be self evident as simply words because a great deal of pain and suffering and in many cases blood was shed to fulfill the meaning of those words. I would hope they would reconsider their rhetoric, both of them. Thank you very much, Candy Crowley.
Senator Obama is not the first political candidate to be accused of plagiarism. Senator Joe Biden dropped out of the presidential race some 20 years ago after he faced charges of plagiarism from a speech by a British politician. Biden used phrases from the leader of the British Labour Party, Neil Kinnock. In that speech Biden said quote, "why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to a university? Why is it that my wife who is sitting out there in the audience is the first in her family to ever go to college?"
Biden quit the presidential race soon afterwards. Joining me now for more on this increasingly nasty battle between Clinton and Obama and some analysis of highly controversial comments made by Michelle Obama today, our senior political analyst Bill Schneider. Bill, in your judgment how will the use of the rhetoric of Deval Patrick affect the Obama campaign?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well we're already seeing Hillary Clinton use it as an issue. Everything is fair in a campaign that's this close. Every mistake, every error in judgment is going to be immediately seized upon and that's exactly what the Clinton campaign is doing. I'm not saying it's unjustified.
I think the use of the rhetoric was unfortunate. It was a mistake, though no one has said it was a mistake and Deval Patrick doesn't seem to object to the borrowing of his rhetoric by Barack Obama, but certainly the Hillary campaign is trying to make a big issue out of it, saying it calls into question the entire premise of Obama's campaign. That he is a different kind of politician, that he is sincere. She is making it a character issue.
DOBBS: Bill, Senator Obama's wife, Michelle, also involved in this controversy tonight saying she is really proud of this country quote, "for the first time in her adult life." Let's hear what Michelle Obama said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, BARACK OBAMA'S WIFE: And let me tell you something for the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: What in the world do you make of that statement?
SCHNEIDER: I take the word really as a key. She said for the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country. Now it probably did not come out the way she intended it, to interpret it as saying she has not been proud of her country in the past I think is probably not what she intended to say. She said she is now really proud of the country because it is doing something...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Bill, I mean I am doing a little flashback to parsing times in the Clinton administration. What in the world difference does the application of really in that sentence mean?
SCHNEIDER: That she has been proud of her country in the past, but now she is now really proud of her country, because now it has personal meaning for her. I don't think the statement came out the way she intended.
DOBBS: It's interesting. Do you think she is going to have to explain her meaning a little more in detail?
SCHNEIDER: I think she will. I think she will.
DOBBS: Let me put it this way. What in the world would it take to make you really proud of this country? She encompasses in her adult life of course the Clinton administration, the fall of Marxist- Leninism, the victory over the Soviet Union and the battle of ideology and the end of the Cold War. I mean the -- it's an incredible statement on any level, is it not?
SCHNEIDER: It is an unfortunate statement and I repeat I don't think it came out the way she intended it to come out.
DOBBS: No, I think the word of the day here in the Bill Schneider lexicon is unfortunate.
SCHNEIDER: Yes.
DOBBS: And I think I couldn't agree with you more. I think it is unfortunate. I would bet you just on the side -- just between and you me and not anyone else...
SCHNEIDER: That's right. Just us.
DOBBS: ... that there is also a deep amount of regret around those comments.
SCHNEIDER: And I think in the words of Desi Arnaz, she has got some explaining to do.
DOBBS: Absolutely. All right, thank you very much, Bill Schneider.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: Bill will be back with us here later in the broadcast. We're going to be analyzing some more developments today on the presidential campaign trail and now tonight's poll.
Do you believe Senator Barack Obama when he says he borrowed Governor Deval Patrick's words and forgot to mention they were Patrick's? We'd love to hear from you. Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have those results upcoming.
In the Republican race, Senator John McCain today won the endorsement of former President George H.W. Bush. The former president called upon Republicans to unite around Senator McCain's candidacy. Former President Bush said charges that Senator McCain is not a true conservative are simply absurd, this from a former president who had a lot of trouble with conservatives himself. Dana Bash has our report from Houston, Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A President's Day embrace from the only living former Republican president and GOP patriarch.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No one is better prepared to lead our nation at these trying times than Senator John McCain.
BASH: John McCain's advisers hope this endorsement from the man who personifies the party establishment helps with McCain's challenge of uniting Republicans behind him.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president is viewed with respect and affection by all Republicans.
BASH: But George H.W. Bush also reminds conservatives that promises are not always kept.
PRES. GEORGE H.W. BUSH: Read my lips. No new taxes.
(APPLAUSE)
BASH: A day after McCain reiterated virtually the same pledge on ABC News.
MCCAIN: No new taxes.
BASH: That's an attempt to nullify conservatives still distrustful of McCain for voting against the current President Bush's 2001 tax cuts. Anger boiling from the GOP base eerily similar to that aimed at then President Bush in 1992, fueling a debilitating primary challenge from the right.
PRES. GEORGE H.W. BUSH: No, I hadn't forgotten '92 now.
BASH: The former President Bush brushed off his own troubled past with conservatives, but said he gets quote, "annoyed at attacks from the right on McCain."
PRES. GEORGE H.W. BUSH: I think the criticism on this conservative or not conservative is absurd.
BASH: The elder Mr. Bush came armed with writings of Ronald Reagan whom he served as vice president to show even a now mythical Gipper had problems with conservatives.
PRES. GEORGE H.W. BUSH: They seemed determined to paint me as a kind of turncoat conservative.
BASH: Conservative leaders in Texas, which holds its primary March 4 say Bush's endorsement helps, but McCain still has a long way to go.
TOM PAUKEN, FORMER TEXAS GOP CHMN.: He has been more identified with the moderate to liberal wing of the Republican Party. There is a real anybody-but-McCain faction in Texas. BASH (on camera): The Bush endorsement in fact here in Texas underscores a big tug of war inside the McCain campaign. They want to project an image that the GOP race is over, but at the same time McCain advisers worry their supporters will be less motivated to vote while supporters of Mike Huckabee are those willing to cast a protest vote still have plenty of energy -- Lou?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Dana, thank you, Dana Bash from Houston Texas.
Former Governor Mike Huckabee today declared he is confident that he can defeat Senator McCain in tomorrow's primary in Wisconsin. Huckabee said he has no intention of abandoning the Republican contest for the presidential nomination. Huckabee saying it would be wrong of him to quit before voters in states such as Wisconsin, Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania have their chance to vote.
Coming up here next, new evidence that the federal government has no idea whatsoever how to tackle the crisis over dangerous toy imports. Christine Romans has our report -- Christine?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, toymakers, retailers, the government agency responsible for toy safety all in New York this week pushing new toys and trying to put toy safety -- the toy safety crisis behind it. We will look at what if anything has really changed, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Christine, looking forward to it.
Also a troubling new example of the Bush administration's failure to protect us from potentially dangerous food, we will have that story as well.
And one city in Maryland taking action on its own to help middle class families trying to survive this mortgage crisis, we will have our special report coming up here next. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: American toy brands exposed American children to millions of dangerous toys just last year. And federal government regulators were powerless to stop them and to protect American citizens. Today our government assures Americans that things will be different in 2008, but there is absolutely no guarantee that those officials know what they are talking about that they learned anything from their mistakes. Most toys are still made in communist China and new recalls are occurring almost daily. Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): From video games to soft toys, dolls to puzzles and games. Toy manufacturers and importers are showing their wares to retailers and reporters.
LEE SCHNEIDER, COMMONWEALTH TOYS: We plan on producing millions of these toys over the next six to 12 months.
ROMANS: Twenty-five million toys were pulled off the shelves last year for safety violations. Now the industry wants to put the year of the recall behind it.
ALAN DORFMAN, BASIC FUN: These are tested extensively. It is a big deal especially coming after the year we came off of the industry.
ROMANS: Wal-Mart and Toys R Us just announced stricter toy safety guideline. The Toy Industry Association is closer to improving safety standards, a process begun last July.
CARTER KEITHLEY, TOY INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION: The safety conformist system will assure that it doesn't have any lead in it. That it doesn't have small parts if it's going to small children. That it doesn't have sharp edges or sharp points.
ROMANS: The Consumer Product Safety Commission says it is hiring more scientists and adding inspectors at America's busiest ports, though it doesn't say how many. The acting chairwoman of the consumer agency says the toys sold in this country, three billion a year, are safer than they have ever been and she seemed to downplay the outcry over dangerous magnets, lead paint and deadly chemicals on store shelves last year.
NANCY NORD, CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMM.: Some of the media stories caused parents to become very confused.
ROMANS: Exaggerating the risks, she said, and Nord brushed aside criticism that America's trade policies had eroded product safety.
NORD: Safety is not a trade issue. We will be vigilant in making sure that imports that come into this country are safe. Again, safety is not a trade issue.
ROMANS: But in testimony before a congressional panel last year she admitted her agency could not keep up with the explosion of imports.
NORD: There are just thousands and thousands of containers of consumer products coming into this country from overseas.
ROMANS: At this toy fair, aisles and aisles of new toys are mostly imported, mostly from China just like last year's recalls.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Now this toy fair seems familiar. Industry executives of the toy fair in October told us then it would be the safest holiday ever for toys and they featured a toy called the Aqua Dots. Lou, that toy was recalled just a month later after being featured at a toy fair just like this one because of course it metabolized into the date rape drug and it hurt some children.
DOBBS: This -- Nord, is she as imbecilic as she appears to be as absolutely insensitive to American consumers, as absolutely lacking the judgment to run a federal agency designed and created to protect the American consumer? I mean this woman is beyond belief.
ROMANS: She says that she relates to -- she's a mother, she relates to mothers and consumers, but Lou, she says that all those recalls show that the system is working. That ironically...
DOBBS: That it's working?
ROMANS: ... it shows that the system is working.
DOBBS: How many of these recalls did her agency initiate? I wonder if she would like to answer that question. I wonder if she would like to explain how in the world she could say this is not a trade issue when she is sitting there testifying before Congress saying that this country is simply swamped with those giant containers filled with all sorts of things, but in this case, toys that are not being inspected.
ROMANS: Yes, she does insist that trade policies and safety are two separate matters. That they are not linked which a lot of Senate Democrats, House Democrat, parent's groups and consumer advocates disagree with. They say that our trade policies have fostered this off shoring of our manufacturing...
DOBBS: Well, where the heck are the Republicans? Only an idiot would think otherwise. When the woman is sitting there saying that it's because we are overwhelmed with imports and we can't inspect them, how could it be anything but a trade issue as well? I mean unbelievable.
ROMANS: I think you have a significant philosophical difference with the chairwoman of the Consumer Product Safety Commission...
DOBBS: Well I think anyone with a triple-digit IQ would have a philosophical difference with her. Thank you very much, Christine Romans. And anybody who cares about what the heck they are doing in that job. Christine Romans, thank you, if I didn't say thank you, I want to say thank you again -- another failure by our government regulators to protect the consuming public in this country.
More than 143 million pounds of beef were recalled by a California meat packing company yesterday. Workers there were caught on tape allowing sick cattle to be slaughtered for food, but it wasn't federal regulators who uncovered the abuse. The Humane Society released the video showing unfit animals being taken to slaughter. We do want to warn you, the video we're about to show you is both graphic and disturbing. Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A shocking video shot under cover by the Humane Society at the Westland Hallmark meat packing company in California. By USDA rules, these kinds of cows too sick to walk should not be slaughtered for food, but they were. The recall goes back two years, but it's too late now. The USDA says most of the meat was eaten although they don't know where it all went, 37 million pounds of it went to the school lunch program. FELICIA NESTOR, FOOD & WATER WATCH: What USDA has done here is come out and surprisingly and unabashedly said oh we didn't do adequate inspection for two years.
PILGRIM: Critics say there are not enough USDA inspectors, 7,800 inspectors cover 6,200 federally inspected meat processing establishments. These e-mails from USDA inspectors sent to consumer Food and Water Watch talk about being stretched too thin to perform all their inspections both inside the plant and outside in the stockyard. The USDA assures the public there is no health risk.
KENNETH PETERSEN, ASST. ADMIN. USDA: We understand obviously the concern that the recall of this size generates, but I THINK if you carefully look at the facts on the safety of the American food supply, we do think the food supply is safe.
WAYNE PACELLE, HUMANE SOCIETY: I am concerned that USDA is always trying to calm the public largely for the meat industries, well-being and welfare. I think that there are tangible violations of their policies that occurred at this plant.
PILGRIM: The lack of USDA oversight becoming a political issue on the campaign trail.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's sick and downed animals being pushed forward with bulldozers, with families having to worry about whether they or their kids ate any of this meat.
PILGRIM: Operations at the plant remain suspended for now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now the plant was shut down. The company declares itself shocked and horrified by the tape, fired the two workers in the video. The USDA is still investigating where that beef was sold -- Lou?
DOBBS: Our government at work. All right, Kitty, thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
Coming up here next, the United States plans to shoot down a satellite. Is it more than an effort to protect lives on the ground? We're going to take a look at that question. We'll have a full support.
And Senators Obama and Clinton taking their battle to the next battleground states, Wisconsin and Texas poll showing a virtual tie. We'll have extensive coverage as we continue here. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The U.S. Navy planning to shoot down a disabled satellite perhaps as soon as this Thursday. The government claims the shoot down is an effort to protect lives on the ground, not a demonstration of an anti-satellite weapon system, but the governments of Russia and China say they are not convinced. China is saying it is concerned. Russia saying it believes the test -- it is a test of the missile defense system. Jaime McIntyre has our report from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Military sources tell CNN the U.S. Navy is planning to take its first and possibly only shot at knocking the unresponsive satellite into the Pacific Ocean Thursday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Main gear touchdown.
MCINTYRE: One day after the U.S. space shuttle Atlantis is safely on the ground. But unlike China's destruction of an aging weather satellite last year, the Pentagon argues its shoot down attempt is all about protecting the earth from a potentially killer gas cloud if the satellite's full fuel tank survives reentry and not about flexing it's anti satellite or ASAT muscles.
GEN. JAMES CARTWRIGHT, JOINT CHIEFS VICE CHAIRMAN: I remember that we did that 20 years ago, there's really no need to go back to that data point.
MCINTYRE: The Joint Chiefs vice chairman is referring to 1985 when an F-15 climbed to 80,000 feet and fired a modified air to air missile destroying a U.S. satellite in space. Despite the success, the program was canceled and while the upcoming attempt is not a test, it's an honest to goodness attempt to counter a potential threat, it's also not a demonstration of America's ASAT abilities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not to prove that the U.S. can also do this. That was not part of your consideration?
JAMES JEFFREY, DEP. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: This is all about trying to reduce the danger to human beings. That was a decision that was taken.
MCINTYRE: For one thing the Navy's standard missile can hit only extremely low-flying space objects like an incoming warhead. The failing U.S. spy satellite is very low at the edge of the atmosphere, roughly 150 miles above the earth just about to fallout out of orbit. The Chinese satellite by comparison was in a much higher orbit, some 525 miles up, hundreds of miles beyond the range of sea launch missiles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: But if the U.S. can modify its anti-missiles once to shoot down satellites, can do it again? Well yes, but it would have to reconfigure the whole system, so it's not much use as a missile shield, so the Pentagon insists, Lou that this is quote, "a one-shot deal" -- Lou?
DOBBS: OK, Jamie, thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre.
We've reported extensively on this broadcast about the NAFTA super highway. The highway will cut directly through Texas and other states to connect Mexico, the United States and Canada. Texans are beginning to learn now the details of that Trans-Texas corridor in public hearings and they are becoming increasingly furious.
We have been inundated on this broadcast with e-mails about the super highway and what the government of Texas is doing. Just a quick example, Ron in Texas said. "We residents of the uniquely beautiful Big Bend area of Texas are about to suffer the influx of thousands of trucks from Mexico loaded with goods from China. Our quiet town of Alpine and our 84-year-old old mayor are 'La Entrada al Pacifico', which is the route these trucks will take. Please expose the travesty."
Well we have been talking about it on this broadcast and as Owen in Texas said, "The super highway that's coming soon to Texas will take 4,000 miles of Texas homes and land. This is a crime."
And Charles in Texas said, "Lou, are you aware of the deep dark secret in Texas, the Trans-Texas Tollway. Our governor, and I use the term loosely, is trying to ram this down our throats. The Republicans are trying so hard to make Texas and Mexico one country. Please check it out."
You left out one party. The Democrats are not doing too badly on their own. Well I want to assure you tonight we will indeed be covering this story extensively as we have in the past. There are more hearings in several cities tomorrow where Texans will be voicing their outrage and we will have special coverage of those hearings here tomorrow evening and will bring you the latest on the efforts to create that Trans-Texas corridor.
And we will have more of your thoughts on other subjects here later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit", sounds like it is awakening in Texas.
Coming up here next, countless middle class families devastated by our housing and credit crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People have nowhere to go and their credit is shot. All the rest of their bills are unpaid, you know. They're coming out with just this financial disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Up next, a special report on how one city is helping those families fight back.
And Senator Obama accused of plagiarism? But he says it's not that big of a deal. We'll find out whether voters are likely to agree. Here next, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Senator Clinton's campaign tonight making for the biggest primaries in Texas March 4th. 228 delegates at stake in the Texas primary and the new CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll shows Senators Clinton and Obama virtually tied in the state of Texas.
Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Two weeks to high noon. The big face off in Texas of course. Ma Clinton?
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Meet me in Texas. We're ready.
SCHNEIDER: Faces the Illinois kid.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We think we will do well in states like Texas and Ohio and Pennsylvania which I know Senator Clinton has suggested somehow she's got a built in edge.
SCHNEIDER: Does she? The new CNN poll conducted by the Opinion Research corporation shows the Democratic race in Texas just about tied.
Democratic voters are picking sides; women for her and men for him. She's got Latinos and he's got African-Americans. Whites closely divided. Older Democrats for Clinton and younger Democrats for Obama. Didn't go to college, Clinton. Went to college, Obama.
Since it's an open primary, you have Democrats for Clinton and Independents for Obama. Evenly divided? Yes. Bitterly divided? No. 79 percent of Texas Democratic voters say they would be satisfied if Clinton wins and 79 percent said they would be satisfied if Obama wins.
Who do they think will win? 79 percent said Clinton is likely to be the Democratic nominee, yet 82 percent said it's just as likely to be Obama.
He may have a slight edge in momentum. What's at stake in Texas? Everything, her people say.
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The truth is that Senator Clinton has to win Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania. If she wins those three, she's probably the nominee. If she loses one of those three, then Senator Obama will probably be the nominee.
SCHNEIDER: This race ain't big enough for the both of them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: McCain the maverick and preacherman Huckabee will be facing off in Texas. Looks good for McCain. He is leading Huckabee 55 to 32 and McCain might wish to emit a yee haw because for the first time this year, he is carrying southern conservative voters in Texas. Lou?
DOBBS: That was one of the most cautious yee haws.
SCHNEIDER: I don't want to go overboard. I'm a reasonable guy. You're from Texas. You can say it.
DOBBS: That's right. I can say yee haw.
SCHNEIDER: OK.
DOBBS: All right. The idea that Senator Clinton has to win these three states, her devout James Carville putting that load straight out there, do you concur?
SCHNEIDER: Yes, I do. I think she can has to win those three big states. And you know it's an interesting pattern. Those three states are crucial. They have a lot of Democrats in them. And Obama has done well, interestingly in the blue states. Texas and Ohio -- I'm sorry, in the red states. Texas and Ohio are both red states. That's why it's a challenge. She has to show she can do that too.
DOBBS: And the Clinton campaign slamming Senator Obama on the issue of the borrowed rhetoric which you called that earlier unfortunate. At the same time, Michelle Obama talking about for the first time in her life she is proud of this country. I mean how much more of this analysis are we going to see as the candidates intensify their contest?
SCHNEIDER: You will see more because it's gotten much more heated. It's down to the wire and they are scrambling over every vote and every delegate. It's just that close. And whatever it takes. That's the rule.
DOBBS: My guess is over the next few weeks, the folks in Texas will hear a lot about those two statements and charges.
SCHNEIDER: They will.
DOBBS: All right. Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
Before Texas, there comes Wisconsin and Hawaii and Senators Clinton and Obama are fighting hard to win tomorrow's primary in Wisconsin. Both the Clinton and Obama campaigns intensifying their attacks in the final hours of campaigning.
Jessica Yellin has our report from Milwaukee. Jessica, how nasty is this thing in Wisconsin?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it has adopted a much more confrontational tone since the race moved here to Wisconsin. This is the state in which we saw the Clinton campaign unveil their first attack ads. Both Clinton and Obama have sent out some very harsh mailers about one another to two voters in this state. Now today there is this ongoing back and forth over Obama's borrowed rhetoric.
Now this state has natural advantages for both of these candidates and that's why it is such a toss up. Naturally the demographics would favor Senator Clinton. There a lot of blue collar voters in the state who have lost manufacturing jobs. They would respond to the messages she is promoting about reforming health care, stimulating the economy and the demographics if you look at the fact that there fewer African-Americans in the state, but more Catholics who tend to favor her. That's a positive for Clinton.
But on the downside, on the plus for Obama, independents and Republicans are allowed to vote in the contest tomorrow. They can vote on the Democratic ticket. They tend to favor Barack Obama. And young voters make up a lot of electorate here. There plenty of universities. Those are big Obama supporters.
Now Lou I have to tell you there is a real toss up. The polls show it incredibly close. Both sides downplaying their expectations but keep this in mind. If Senator Clinton even has a close showing tomorrow night, expect the campaign to say this is a start of a Clinton comeback.
DOBBS: It's an interesting point because just a couple of weeks ago, not all of them, but most were saying that the Clinton camp had basically written off Wisconsin and now it's a battle royal.
YELLIN: It is a battle royal because this is a start of the new Clinton momentum. If they get it, they hope will propel her through Ohio and Texas and get enough of a victory to get the nomination.
DOBBS: All right. Jessica Yellin, we thank you very much, as always.
And a reminder, please vote in our poll tonight. The question is do you believe Senator Barack Obama when he says he borrowed Governor Deval Patrick's words and forgot to mention they were Patrick's? We would love to hear from you on this. Yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We will have the results here in a few minutes.
Coming up next, we'll be talking about why Senator Obama doesn't think it's too big of a deal to borrow those words. Three of the country's best political analysts will weigh in on that.
Also ahead, John McCain picks up a key endorsement from a former president who once had a little trouble with conservatives himself.
And the war on our middle class, the city of Baltimore fighting back for their middle class home owners. We will have that report.
A great deal more still ahead. Stay with us. We are coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Baltimore is among the cities hit hard by our mortgage crisis, a crisis that's ravaging working men and women and their families in the country. During the past three months, home sales in Baltimore plummeted 35 percent. As Louise Schiavone now reports, the city of Baltimore is trying to help its struggling middle class families.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Foreclosures are through the roof in the state of Maryland.
GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), MARYLAND: We have seen a 600 percent increase in foreclosures since last year. That means in real family terms is that 7,000 families in Maryland are now facing foreclosure.
SCHIAVONE: In the city of Baltimore, the problem is especially bad in, but not restricted to, minority neighborhoods.
REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: It is estimated that close to $1 billion in taxes will be lost in the Baltimore city area in the next year or so because of depressed housing as a result of foreclosures.
SCHIAVONE: More than 1,000 citizens spent last weekend at a workshop on personal finances. The focus was personal credit, tax preparation, housing values and mortgage strategies. Those who agreed to talk to us reported no personal financial peril.
MIKE MOBLEY, MARYLAND RESIDENT: To be frank with you, I just filed my taxes and I've got to do something because the government is eating me alive.
It has given me the incentive to I guess I get off of my back side and actually make some positive concrete steps into becoming a homeowner.
LINNARD GARNER, MARYLAND RESIDENT: Basically, I might be able to lower my mortgage rate by maybe a couple hundred dollars a month.
SCHIAVONE: But there are literally thousands in the state of Maryland alone who are trapped in complex and deceptive loans from mortgages to credit cards.
JOANNA SMITH-RAMANI, BALTIMORE CASH CAMPAIGN: What we're finding is that people have nowhere to go. Their the credit is shot and the rest of bills are unpaid. You know they are coming out with a financial disaster and rebuilding that is an enormous process to go through.
SCHIAVONE: The worst may lie ahead with an estimated 30,000 adjustable rate mortgages due to reset to higher payments this year. The Joint Economic Committee of Congress estimated last year that by the end of 2009, 25,000 sub prime mortgagees in Maryland alone will go into foreclosure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Lou, the state of Maryland is trying to reach those at risk mortgage holders now, offering loans of up to $15,000 to qualified homeowners with sub prime or exotic loans. They are calling on banks and ledgers to put people to work to keep families in their homes if at all possible. Lou?
DOBBS: Wouldn't that be nice? Louise, thank you very much; Louise Schiavone from Washington.
Up next here, Senator Obama on the defensive tonight, accusations of plagiarism and what in the world did his wife mean to say?
And a major endorsement for Senator McCain but is the Bush family an asset or liability? I'll be talking with three of the best and brightest political analysts in the nation about that and a great deal more, still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: At the top of the hour the ELECTION CENTER with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf, what are you working on?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou.
We are working on several important stories including the floor of the current Republican presidential candidate, Mike Huckabee. He is here in the CNN ELECTION CENTER and I will be speaking with him. We'll talk live about whether or not he has second thoughts about staying in the race.
I will also be speaking live with a former presidential candidate, the New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. He's here as well. He and his fellow super delegates facing a dilemma at this summer's party convention, do they will have the voter's choice or try to nominate their own favorite? See you Lou and everyone else right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: You got a deal and those super delegates after today have got even more to think about.
BLITZER: They certainly do.
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf.
Joining me now, three of the country's very best political analysts and Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist "New York Daily News," Michael Goodwin; Michael, good to have you here. CNN contributor, democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf, great to have you Hank and New York Bureau Chief, "Washington Post" Keith Richburg. Keith, great to have you here.
My goodness, Michelle Obama. She was for the first time really proud of her country. How big of a problem is that going to be?
KEITH RICHBURG, WASHINGTON POST: Well, it's going to depend on how they spin it. Obviously you know she probably didn't mean the first time.
DOBBS: I'm sure she didn't.
RICHBURG: She did say really proud. I mean you know I'd have to see the rest of the speech but if she went on to say for the first there is a woman and an African-American who are at the top of the game and that makes me really proud, I mean she could probably spin that. I mean everything when they are this close will be an issue. We will wait and see if it has legs or not.
DOBBS: Michael?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: It's a piece of kindling and to make it a fire, the Clinton people are going to need something big tomorrow in Wisconsin. I think if Obama pulls out a victory in Wisconsin and the bigger, then this thing will seem small. If on the other hand Clinton wins, then this is the sort of thing that creates momentum perhaps. It adds to it. But I think still what happens in the voting booth is the most important right now.
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: This is a burr on the saddle of every white blue collar working class guy that's thinking about going over to the Obama campaign to vote for him. Ditto. It will get worse for the independents who are patriotic by definition, who feel strongly about this and they chose that course for that reason. They will say wait a second. How could you say such a thing? Is that what you really mean? They're going to want to know why and if they don't get the right answer, they're going to shake this election up. That's how serious this is.
DOBBS: Do you all agree that it can't be ignored by the Obama campaign?
RICHBURG: I think they're going to have to come out and come out with a spin or an explanation. I think they're going to lie on the word really. She said really proud of my country. So I think that's going to be how they try to spin this.
GOODWIN: I don't think there is any spin possible. It was a mistake. It was a stupid thing to say and they should say that in one way or another and hope to put it behind them quickly and hope they win tomorrow and focus on that.
SHEINKOPF: Listen, the blogs are going to be more important. They continue to move the 24 hour news cycle. This is going to be rapaciously taken apart and reiterated and put into different variations for the next 24 hours.
DOBBS: Another hit to the Obama campaign and that is the borrowed rhetoric; the senator borrowing literally from Deval Patrick, the governor of Massachusetts. How is that going to play?
SHEINKOPF: When it happened to Joe Biden, he had a speech writer that was subsequently fired them. Obviously it worked for him. Be that as it may, it destroyed his campaign because it made him look like a dope number one. The worst thing you can do when you want to run the world and have your finger next to the button is look like a dope. When you copy someone else, you look like a dope. You may have gone to Harvard, but you still look like a dope. So you have a dopey day which is you did something stupid and your wife said something not smart and the end result is people say whoa. Because they figure out the rhetoric comes to an end and they say wait a second. Ahmadinejad, the atomic weapon, and the country's in chaos and we have troops in Iraq and the economy is going down the toilet. You made two dopey things. We can't trust that. That's the problem with the independents again and the Republicans who vote and the blue collar white working class Catholics will say wait a second. That's what's at stake here, Lou.
DOBBS: You are saying just regular Democrats will buy into that?
SHEINKOPF: No, what I'm saying is regular Democrats from those different groupings are going to be very upset.
GOODWIN: I don't see it as nearly that important. Look I mean every day now is a fight for the headline, a fight for momentum, just kind of win the Daily News cycle battle. Clinton clearly wins this one because of Obama did, what he admitted to, but I don't think it has a lasting impact. It's a ding. It's a nick in his armor. He shouldn't have done it, but I don't think it's fundamental.
RICHBURG: I would agree. I would say we have on see what happens in Wisconsin tomorrow. If he does big, you know, we'll see that this story didn't have many legs. But also you know people are going to back and starting looking at his books and looking at his speeches and see if there other things he listed. That's what happened with Biden. It wasn't just the first initial reference, it's once the journalists started pouring over all of his speeches and seeing things were lifted. So that's where the little danger is.
GOODWIN: Yes, I would make one more point Lou too. I think when Hillary Clinton herself comes out and attacks him as a plagiarist, then we will know that they think it has legs. Right now she sent Howard Wolfson out to kind of do the dirty work and float the balloon. Let's see if she comes out herself. Then we'll know she believes in it as a substantive issue.
SHEINKOPF: The first great rule of American politics and the first rule is if you stand up, they throw tomatoes. Well now he's standing up. He appears to be the front runner. He's adding delegates. Get ready for a lot of tomatoes. They're not going to fly at Mrs. Clinton but they are going to fly at him. He's a tomato magnet.
DOBBS: I do love the answer that he gave briefly. And that is that it's no big deal that he and Deval Patrick are buddies and you know we share ideas. What we are waiting for now is where is that idea that Deval Patrick got from Senator Obama. We will be back to find out that and a great deal more with our panel. We're coming right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now Michael Goodwin, Hank Sheinkopf, Keith Richburg.
Gentlemen, let's turn to first Wisconsin. It looks like an absolute dead heat right now. What happened? That was supposed to be Senator Obama's. SHEINKOPF: If the young people turn out in big numbers tomorrow which they can do in Wisconsin, Madison being one place, I mean he will win the thing. If they don't and they are not organized as usual and they have been very good, he may not win the thing but what you see is everything coming right down the middle and people are going to have to make a very basic choice. Anything that upsets that middle in any way will upset this race going forward. This will have ballast going into the next and potentially final contest.
DOBBS: The fact that these contests are close will not change and will not be much of a change in delegates count and the bragging rights to Wisconsin and bragging rights to whatever is less important. We keep hearing all of this talk about momentum to the point that I frankly am tired of it but apparently people believe that is a real honest to goodness quality of the campaign.
GOODWIN: Well, if you assume that at the end of the primaries, particularly the big ones, they are still very close in delegates then who won these last big states could be important in the sense of how those superdelegates view who is stronger.
DOBBS: You agree with Carville?
GOODWIN: Yes.
DOBBS: Pennsylvania, Ohio and Texas are critical for Senator Clinton.
GOODWIN: Absolutely. I mean let's say she wins them all, but he still has a delegate lead because she doesn't win by much, is that the same? Or if he wins one or two, does he then have the momentum so that the superdelegates say well he's the stronger one right now.
DOBBS: Do you think Michael suggesting that James Carville laid that out in just that way to suit Senator Clinton.
RICHBURG: Well possibly but you know now she's set this so called fire wall up that she has to do well in them. And you know I think that's right about the momentum thing. Even if she wins them all, but he is ahead in delegates, are you really going to give the nomination to a guy who lost Ohio, lost Texas, lost Pennsylvania, lost New Jersey, lost California? That's weird.
SHEINKOPF: That's a different set of problems. Democrats appear in a way to have taken what was rightfully his away from him. If that's going to get down to it the Democratic Party as we know it will not exist the next day.
DOBBS: And to Republicans. The Republican Party as we know it doesn't exist today.
SHEINKOPF: No it doesn't because the Reagan idea of strong defense and morality are gone. Foley scandal killed the second one and the conduct of this war in Iraq killed the first one. That's the problem they face. GOODWIN: Well I mean the pictures earlier, Lou, of the Bushes and the McCains together, I mean Cindy McCain looked to be the only one under 70 in that picture. I mean the youth vote is gone. I mean John McCain has got a big problem. Yes he has a conservative problem but he's got to pick up the energy level. That campaign is looking old and tired and it's been that way for a couple of weeks now. I'm not sure how he will shake that up. Maybe caffeine.
DOBBS: Got any advice for Senator McCain?
RICHBURG: He has to get a really young, energetic runningmate. You know I agree. It could be a huge problem if they start going after him over patriotism and all that, but Obama has been turning out the young people.
DOBBS: Going after Senator McCain?
RICHBURG: Sorry. Going after Obama on these issues of patriotism, et cetera. You know McCain is definitely going to wave the flag. He is going to say this guy not are ready for national security but if that can be encountered by this huge wave of young people that have been turning out, if Obama is the nominee, it could be an interesting race.
DOBBS: Let me see if I've got this right. Wave of young people equals what?
RICHBURG: Wave of young people on one side, all these Republican and independents who are trying to waiver which way to go. It's going to be fascinating.
SHEINKOPF: Assuming the young people turn out.
RICHBURG: That's a big question.
SHEINKOPF: They have not turned out in those numbers in the past.
GOODWIN: And I would - look, McCain's got deep reservoir of all kinds of strengths, too. I just think right now he seems to be on a low energy level and I'm not sure why because he has an opportunity now to consolidate.
DOBBS: Perhaps it's a hiatus of some sort.
Thank you very much, Michael Goodwin and Hank Sheinkopf, thank you sir.
The results of our poll now: 53 percent of you say senator - that you believe Senator Barack Obama, when he says he borrowed Governor Patrick's words and forgot to mention they were Barack's (sic)? Forty-seven percent say you don't. That's a pretty close vote, particularly by the standards of this broadcast.
Time now for more of your thoughts. John in Alabama said, "Thanks, Lou, for your coverage of illegal immigration. As a retired Marine, I sometimes wonder if I was on the right side when I see the idiotic policy of amnesty even being mentioned."
And Locki in Texas said, "Dear Lou, I'd probably call myself a yellow dog Democrat for all of my voting life. Now, I've been forced by the Democrats to call myself a Lou Dobbs independent. It wasn't as painful a transformation as I thought it would be. Thanks for the help."
And you're more than welcome, and congratulations.
Charlie in Arkansas - "Why are we having hearings in Congress about Roger Clemens and steroids, instead of the dangers of imports from China?" And I think that's a wonderful question.
Ronald in Wisconsin - "We have untested prescription drugs coming from China. Now the U.S. government failed to inspect beef and it's being recalled. It is all about profits, and the American public be damned."
Richard in Oklahoma said, "Lou, I'm in the process of reading your latest book, and you're right on about everything. This book should be required reading before anyone votes in the upcoming November elections."
Well, as you might guess, thank you, and I couldn't agree with you more.
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. Each of you whose email is read here receives a copy of my new book, "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit."
We thank you for being with us tonight. We ask you to join us here tomorrow. For all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "The Election Center" with Wolf Blitzer begins right now. Wolf.
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