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Ethics Charges Made Against McCain; Navy Scores Direct Strike on Spy Satellite; Serbian Protesters Set Fire to U.S. Embassy; Is Ethanol Good for the Environment?
Aired February 21, 2008 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CO-HOST: Allegations of special treatment, denials of an improper relationship. The campaign trail gets personal.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN world headquarters here in Atlanta.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CO-HOST: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield in for Kyra Phillips, who is on assignment in Iraq.
Respond and move on. John McCain's self-professed strategy for dealing with a potentially damaging story in the "New York Times." The story claims an overly familiar relationship between McCain and a female lobbyist back when the Arizona senator chaired the commerce committee in the late '90s.
Well, today of course, he's the almost-certain Republican nominee for president. His response, with his wife at his side: the "Times" allegations are, quote, "disappointing and a distraction and not true."
CNN's Dana Bash is on the story, and she joins us now from Toledo, Ohio, with the very latest -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, Senator McCain and his wife both came out in a very subdued way, wanting to make the case, even just in their body language, that they understand that this is a big story but also wanting to make the case that they're not concerned, in body language and in Senator McCain's words.
Over and over insisting, emphatically, that nothing in the "New York Times" story is true, whether it is a suggestion that he had a romantic relationship with this lobbyist, this female lobbyist, or more importantly, perhaps, for his campaign and the theme of his campaign, which is running against lobbyists, running against special interests in Washington, the suggestion that he, because of this relationship with this lobbyist, influenced the committee that he was sitting on, the Senate Commerce Committee, and tried to help her and her telecommunications clients.
Now he made very clear also the central part of the beginning -- sort of the crux of the "New York Times" story, that eight years ago -- and this whole thing, by the way, took place eight years ago -- that this idea that his aides, campaign aides, Senate aides, that they were so concerned about what this meant, the whole perception of this meant for his campaign, that they confronted him and they also confronted her. Well, Senator McCain said none of that is true.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: At no time have I ever done anything that would betray the public trust, nor make a decision which in any way would not be in the public interest and would favor anyone or any organization.
CINDY MCCAIN, JOHN MCCAIN'S WIFE: Obviously, I'm very disappointed in the "New York Times." And more importantly, my children and I not only trust my husband but know that he would never do anything to not only disappoint our family but disappoint the people of America. He's -- he's a man of great character, and I'm very, very disappointed in the "New York Times."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Disappointed in the "New York Times." That has been the posture that the McCain campaign has taken, not quite in that nice of a way, since last night. His campaign aides, top advisors have been incredibly aggressive, scathing about the "New York Times," saying that it is gutter journalism, that it is absolutely tabloid-like, what they decided to print. Because again, they insist that what was in today's paper was simply not true.
Well, Bill Keller, the executive editor of "The New York Times," released a statement responding to that and also responding to some other allegations about -- or questions about the timing of the release of this story, because reporters on this story have been working on it for months. There was an allegation in -- in the McCain campaign that the only reason why they decided to post it on their Web site last night at about 7 p.m. Eastern is because they were worried about a story in another publication coming out talking about some inner turmoil about whether or not to publish this story.
So here's what the statement said from Bill Keller. He said, "On the substance, we think the story speaks for itself. On the timing, our policy is we publish stories when they are ready. Ready means the facts have been nailed down to our satisfaction, the subjects have all been given a full and fair chance to respond, and the reporting has been written -- written up with all the proper context -- context and caveats.
"This story was no exception. It was a long time in the works. It reached my desk late Tuesday afternoon after a final edit and a routine check by our lawyers. We published it." So that, there you have the official response from Bill Keller.
And I should tell you there was -- that we also have a response from the lawyer in question here, Vicki Iseman, from her lobbying firm. They also are sticking by her, saying that what's in "The New York Times" is wrong, saying that it is fantasies of a disgruntled former campaign employee. And they insist that Vicki Iseman has had only a professional working relationship with Senator McCain -- Don.
LEMON: Dana Bash, thank you very much for that report. We want to tell our viewers, Republican strategist, former Romney advisor Bay Buchanan is going to join us a little bit later on in the hour to discuss these issues. You don't want to miss what Bay Buchanan has to say about this.
Let's move on now and talk about a Texas showdown for the Democratic presidential candidates at the University of Texas in Austin. They're making final preparations for tonight's CNN debate between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
The stakes are especially high for Clinton after Obama's recent string of victories. She badly needs a win in the March 4 Texas primary.
Live CNN coverage starts at 8 p.m. Eastern, of course, only here on CNN.
As Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton get ready to debate in Texas tonight, our latest poll shows the two running neck-and-neck among Texas Democrats. The poll conducted by the Opinion Research Corporation shows Clinton with 50 percent and Obama with 48 percent.
The CNN poll suggests that if -- if -- the general election were held today, either Democrat would lose Texas to Republican John McCain. Texas voters who were interviewed preferred McCain over Obama 52 percent to 44 -- 44 percent. They preferred McCain over Clinton 55 percent to 42 percent.
And again, the face-off in Texas happens tonight. Our special debate coverage begins at 8 p.m. Eastern. And you can see it only on CNN.
WHITFIELD: Mission accomplished. A U.S. missile finds its target: a dead spy satellite aiming for earth.
Let's bring in our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.
Jamie, it was a direct hit on a first try, and it really only had one try to get it right.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it looks that way, Fredricka. The Pentagon is withholding final judgments, but all the indications are that the attempt to shoot down that satellite was a smashing success.
It only took three minutes for the SM-3 modified missile to leave the USS Lake Erie in the Pacific Ocean and intercept that satellite as it was orbiting about 150 miles above the earth. The missile put a kill vehicle, kinetic kill vehicle, which is a non-explosive warhead, right in the path of the satellite, and you saw the resulting explosion.
That explosion, along with what appears to be a vapor trail and some other analysis, has led the Pentagon to believe they did, in fact, hit that fuel tank. But they're not willing to say absolute certain yet until they can do a little more analysis. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JAMES CARTWRIGHT, JOINT CHIEFS VICE CHAIRMAN: I'm not at the point yet where we're ready to say we got that tank, but we have reduced the mass. There is substantially less than the amount that we forecast, the 2,800 pounds at re-entry. Substantially less is available out there. The pieces are substantially smaller. As I said right now, we're seeing nothing bigger than a football.
So by all indications, we're on a positive path that this was a successful intercept.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: General Cartwright said he's 90 percent certain, his own opinion, that that fuel tank was a total success. That would be, as you said, a direct hit, a total success.
They're also tracking the debris from the satellite, and they're watching it as it falls through the atmosphere. Most of the pieces are pretty small, as you said, not much bigger than a football, but they are -- they're also burning up mostly before they hit the ground.
There's one other picture, as we look at some of the pictures that were released by the Pentagon, that was very interesting today. It actually shows the inside of the combat information center, where we actually see -- this is U.S. Navy Petty Officer 2nd Class Andrew Jackson. And his finger right there is about to hit the screen to activate the missile.
He played a small part in history, the first time the U.S. shot down a missile from a sea-based ship. With all the sophisticated technology, somebody has to push the button. Turned out it was Petty Officer Jackson.
WHITFIELD: All right. And I know he feels really lucky knowing that it was a direct hit, and his family is happy to see him and those images, too.
All right, Jamie McIntyre. Thanks so much from the Pentagon.
LEMON: OK. Chad Myers, it's almost March. Can we stop it with, you know, the stormy winter day stuff and get into the spring flowers and showers?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Do I need to bring a calendar over to you?
WHITFIELD: We're a long way off, aren't we? What are you thinking?
LEMON: I know. But still. I'm like, you know, hurry up! Hurry up.
By the way, did you -- did you watch the eclipse last night? Did you see it? MYERS: Absolutely. My wife and I both went out. We went out twice. Once when it was first coming on. We said, "Oh, we'll come back later when it's full." By the time we got back out there, it was almost already done. It's like kind of missed the total thing.
LEMON: It was too cloudy for me. I didn't get to see it. We've got some video of it.
(WEATHER REPORT)
MYERS: Rain showers in Atlanta. We're going to get some rain here, Don. We're going to use it. Did you hear that Georgia lawmakers are trying to move the Georgia line?
LEMON: I heard that.
MYERS: Get a little bit of that river right there, the Tennessee River.
LEMON: That's a big controversy. Are you going to be reporting on that later?
MYERS: We are.
LEMON: You are. OK. Because it's -- they're moving, like, 1.1 mile up the Tennessee side of the border, because it was redrawn...
MYERS: A hundred and eighty or 190 years ago when they drew the line, they went and surveyed it. They missed the real line, which was the 35th parallel. They missed it by 1.1 miles.
LEMON: Yes.
MYERS: And if it would be 1.1 mile farther to the north right here, Atlanta and Georgia would get a piece of the Tennessee River, which would give water to Atlanta forever.
LEMON: Yes. I'm being told, though, Chad, don't give it away. Because we're going to do some extensive reporting on it in the next hour.
MYERS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
LEMON: You're talking about the line, the real line on this? Is that we need the water, so whatever works, right?
MYERS: Well, yes. There's a means to their madness. They just don't want an extra 100 people in Georgia. That's not why they're moving the line. We'll get to that. That's a good tease.
LEMON: All right. Chad Myers, thank you.
MYERS: You're welcome.
WHITFIELD: All right. With the help -- or rather, with the promise to help fight poverty, disease and illiteracy, President Bush wrapped up a six-day tour of Africa today with the closest U.S. ally on the continent, Liberian President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf.
He assured the Liberian people they won't be forgotten after his term ends, an important pledge for a country still struggling to recover from 14 years of civil war.
The president was enthusiastically welcomed at all stops of his five-nation Africa tour.
LEMON: Is ethanol the real deal? A lot of tax money is being thrown that way. We wondered whether it's worth the investment. Our Miles O'Brien has investigated the matter, and he'll tell you what he found.
WHITFIELD: Also ahead, medical advice from the Internet: life- saving or life-threatening? We'll show you how to spot the difference.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Breaking news to tell you about. Look at this live video. This is coming out, live pictures there. It's coming out of Belgrade.
What's going on here, according to the Associated Press and also according to the Reuters news agency, a handful of Serbian protesters broke into the U.S. embassy in Belgrade, and they were cheered on by crowds outside. It's a protest at the U.S. support of Kosovo's independence.
Now, here's what's important to know about this. The embassy was closed, and police were not protesting [SIC] the building so it's believed -- believed that no one was inside of the embassy. Protesters started a fire at the U.S. embassy.
Again according to the Associated Press and to Reuters, after they -- breaking into a protest at U.S. support of Kosovo's independence. The embassy was closed. Police were not protecting the building. Doors were ripped off, set on fire, and wedged in the embassy's windows. Black smoke, you can see, billowing out of the building there.
Again, these are these protesters on the street. Again, the Serbian demonstrators, opposed to Kosovo's independence, penetrated that U.S. embassy in Belgrade today. That's according to a State Department spokesperson. I'm quoting information from the Associated Press and also from Reuters.
We're going to get much more on it from our State Department team. They are checking this story. And again we're going to continue to bring you this live video, live information as soon as we get more on this developing story. But you saw the pictures there, pretty disturbing information coming out of Belgrade. We're on top of it.
Let's talk about living in fear in Reno, Nevada. A serial rapist appears to be taunting police in Reno, Nevada after killing his last victim. This story just ahead right here in the CNN NEWSROOM from CNN's Dan Simon.
WHITFIELD: And ethanol, touted as the future of fuel. And it's turning corn into cash but who exactly are the big winners in the ethanol rush? And who's paying?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. One more time, a look at the pictures right now. You're seeing chaos erupting right at the U.S. embassy -- inside and out of the U.S. embassy there in Belgrade.
Why? Because over the weekend Kosovo declared independence. The U.S. backed it, and now you're seeing a lot of Serb protesters, who are exhibiting their disappointment in that decision. And this is just the beginning, possibly, of what we're seeing, the violence erupting now by the hands of the Serb protesters there in Belgrade.
While you are seeing moving traffic there, it's unclear exactly who, you know, may be in those vehicles. But inside of the embassy that has been set on fire, some of the windows being ripped apart, as well as destroyed there.
The U.S. embassy is vacant. It is a closed structure right now. But this is simply a symbolic gesture being played a part by the Serb protesters there in Belgrade.
Of course, we're going to continue to watch the developments there as a result of Kosovo declaring independence over the weekend. Straight ahead.
LEMON: And of course, I'm just being told, Fred, that our Zain Verjee is actually in the State Department briefing right now. So no doubt they're talking about. Official update as soon as she gets out of that briefing and as soon as we can get Zain Verjee and our State Department folks up and running.
Meantime, three other stories we're working on for you today right here in the CNN NEWSROOM, 18 past the hour.
A strong earthquake in northeastern Nevada today, measured at 6.0. Damage was reported in Wells, Nevada, 11 miles from the epicenter. But there have been no reports of serious injuries.
A crackdown against paparazzi to tell you about, the photographers who chase celebrities like Britney Spears. Critics say they're a danger to public safety. The L.A. Sheriff's Department has arrested four photographers since Tuesday for blocking sidewalks. Two were shooting Spears at a hair salon. Shooting pictures of her, to make that clear. The others were camped outside a trendy nightclub.
One week after the Northern Illinois University shootings, a commemoration on campus later today. Five minutes of silence for five victims.
WHITFIELD: And nobody argues the United States is addicted to oil from overseas. So what do you do about it? Washington is full of people dying to tell you all about corn, ethanol, and how it's the fuel of the future. Well, whether it is or not, there is money being made in corn country.
CNN's Miles O'Brien went to see for himself.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is perfect corn-growing country, isn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't get any better than this.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): That's Bill Couser, lifelong corn farmer and, lately, ethanol tycoon. He took me to some of the few stalks still standing this time of year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the free market is rewarding us for the job we're doing.
O'BRIEN: Well, actually it's not so free. Matter of fact, you and I are fueling the fuel-from-corn frenzy with as much as $17 billion a year in government subsidies, even though corn ethanol is not as clean, efficient or practical as the politicians claim.
And what's worse, even the biggest corn ethanol advocates agree, it won't make a dent in our addiction to foreign oil. More on that in a bit.
COUSER: Let's go to the ethanol plant.
O'BRIEN: Couser is a founder and chairman of this $90-million ethanol plant in his hometown of Nevada, Iowa.
COUSER: This is what we hope people will refer to as the Kuwait of the Midwest.
O'BRIEN: The place is humming, 24/7, 365. The trucks roll in, drop their loads of Iowa gold.
Nationwide, there are now 139 corn ethanol plants, and they are maxed out, distilling more than six billion gallons of the stuff every year, nearly every drop loaded onto freight cars and sent down the line to be mixed in with gasoline.
(voice-over) The plant is making money right now?
COUSER: The plant is profitable.
O'BRIEN: You don't want to say?
COUSER: It's profitable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: OK. We know you're intrigued. So are your government and your tax dollars blocking the path to a safer environment or even making environmental problems worse? CNN's Miles O'Brien investigates, "Broken Government: Scorched Earth." CNN tonight right after the debates.
LEMON: Meantime, we want to get back to our breaking news. This is coming out of Belgrade. You're looking at live pictures coming out of Belgrade. There's a protest there, and it looks -- it appears to be a pretty violent protest. You're looking at these pictures. This is some sort of ceremony going on. A live protest at the embassy, the U.S. embassy in Belgrade.
Now, here's what we are learning, and this according to several news organizations, several reporting organizations, Reuters and the Associated Press. They're saying that protesters started a fire in the U.S. embassy in Belgrade after breaking in to protests at U.S. support of Kosovo's independence.
You should know, looking at these pictures that are in moments ago, no one was inside of the building, it is believed, because the embassy is closed today. We're also getting reports that doors were ripped off, set on fire, and wedged in the embassy's windows. And at points you can see black smoke billowing out on the ground there.
And also at several points you could see what appears to be vehicles traveling there on the road, trying to get through that black smoke and what appears to be some sort of sparks. Not exactly sure if it's gunfire or explosives or what have you, that set all of this off. But you can see the protesters there making their way down the streets.
Again, as Fredricka has been saying, we have been reporting, talking about the U.S. support of Kosovo and the independence there. And the Serbians are apparently upset with the U.S. because of the support and they have done -- have staged this protest. Live pictures in just moments ago.
Our Zain Verjee, who is with the State Department, our State Department correspondent, is actually in a meeting now, a briefing, with the State Department, and we're going to go to her in a minute, as well as our other folks, our international desk on top of this. We're firing our folks up, all of our resources internationally, to add to some perspective to this story.
But again, breaking news coming out of Belgrade, an attack on the U.S. embassy. Details to come in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: We continue to watch the unrest taking place right there in Belgrade, Serbia. You're looking at pictures shot just moments ago of what has turned out to be some pretty explosive protests taking place right outside the U.S. embassy there, which is a vacant building. It has been closed.
But nevertheless, this is a symbolic gesture being made by the Serbian protesters there, who were not happy with the fact that Kosovo declared independence over the weekend and the U.S. also supported that, as well.
Our Zain Verjee just got out of a briefing at the U.S. State Department in Washington, D.C. She joins us now from Washington to give us an update on how the State Department is reacting to all of this erupting.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said that this is an evolving situation and the details that are coming in here to the State Department in Washington are still very preliminary.
The spokesman said this, that these protesters were out on the streets. Still they were on the grounds of the U.S. embassy, but they were not actually in the building, he said. Though no details exactly how many Serbians are in the area.
McCormack also said that there were reports up till today that the Serbs were providing adequate security forces. He said that that could have changed on the ground. But that, from the U.S. point of view, that they have, he said, a responsibility to make sure there is that kind of security.
It seems now, looking at the live pictures, that security forces appear to be rolling in. The State Department is saying what's important right now is that the government act immediately and deal with this situation.
And where is the U.S. Ambassador? McCormack says that he is now at his residence. He said that the ambassador was not there when this incident happened. It was unclear at this point whether any other U.S. embassy staff is there.
Here's what McCormack said at the briefing just a short while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We are in contact with the Serbian government to insure that they devote the appropriate assets to fulfill their international obligations to help protect diplomatic facilities, in this case our embassy. They have been, up until this point, very good in providing police assets to ensure that the embassy facility was protected.
We want to strongly urge them -- and we are in contact with them -- to make sure that they devote the assets to deal with this situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: And as this situation continues to unfold, as you see those live images there in Belgrade, around the U.S. embassy and the protesters there -- this is tape from just some moments ago. McCormack also said that the embassy has been carrying out the important diplomat functions, but it has been closed to the public for the last couple of days. WHITFIELD: And Zain, what is the concern, or what is even the plan for the U.S. if they feel that Serb forces cannot control what is taking place here? That this just might be the tip of the iceberg in terms of actions being carried out by Serb protesters?
VERJEE: Any situation like this is going to be worrying for the United States. They've supported the independence of Kosovo. That is something that many people in Belgrade have been furious about. They say, "How on earth can the U.S. go ahead and support the independence of Kosovo?" They say, "Kosovo belongs to us."
This is a very volatile region, and there is a lot of animosity between the different ethnic groups here. For the United States, this is a difficult and potentially dangerous situation.
Sean McCormack also said that, regarding U.S. policy, the United States for now, though, continues to leave an open line with the Serbian government. They said they may disagree with our actions, but we're going to push forward and push for the successful independence of Kosovo. So what plan B here is still -- is, is still being discussed.
WHITFIELD: All right. Zain Verjee at the U.S. State Department, thank you so much.
And as you look at these images, I know it seems like conflicting images, John -- Don, that we're seeing. We saw sort of the violence erupting there, the fires, the smoke from the tear gas, and then you also see this image right here which looks awfully peaceful.
We're still trying to determine exactly what this image means right here, if these are folks who are praying for continued peace or the easy changeover of independence into Kosovo. Of course when we get some information to help better explain these pictures we'll be able to bring that to you.
LEMON: Yes, not exactly sure. It appears to be two separate events going on, and it could just be that they are in close proximity. So we're getting both pictures, but not sure exactly about that. And as Fredricka just said, we're going to continue to follow this.
As a matter of fact, now our Alessio Vinci is on the line. He joins us from Italy. Alessio was there when Kosovo declared their independence.
Alessio, perhaps you can set us straight on what these pictures are, why we're seeing what appears to be two different services, a services going on and a protest.
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is correct. I mean, not being able to see what you guys are seeing in the U.S., but I can certainly tell you that the largest, the biggest event taking place today in Belgrade was a planned rally to protest Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence. This was a planned rally attended by several thousand Serbs waving flags. There were some speeches by Serb leaders. It was a peaceful gathering, and indeed Serb officials have said all along that while they were going to challenge the declaration of independence with political and diplomatic means, they wanted to make sure that there was going to be no violence, and certainly there were no plans of doing anything violent.
The attack on the U.S. embassy, although it is too early perhaps to confirm it, but anyway it is certainly the work of a small, isolated group of you'd probably call them thugs, people who like to take advantage of the situation, knowing that the eyes of the world right now are on that region once more, because of this declaration of independence. They want -- they have attacked and these are people who are not necessarily even involved in Serb politics or whatever. These are just sometimes, often as it happens in Belgrade, these are people who belong to organized gangs of football supporters.
And if you look at those pictures, you know, the people who suffer the most are the Serbs themselves. These are the images that will make it even harder for Serb officials, for the Serb authorities, to challenge this unilateral declaration of independence to the various international organizations, the U.N., the Organization for Security an Cooperation in Europe, the European Union.
Serb officials have said all along they didn't want this to turn into a violent event, and yet these pictures show once more that, you know, there is a small isolated, but still very present, element of violence in Serbia. And these pictures will go around the world, and people will still remember that why Kosovo do not trust the Serbs, why Kosovo no longer want to live under the influence of Belgrade. They haven't done so, by the way, over the last decade, ever since NATO, led by the United States, bombed Serbia and targets in Kosovo, pushing Kosovo forces out of -- sorry, Serb forces out of Kosovo. That province has been under the administration of the United Nations.
LEMON: Alessio, we want to -- thanks for setting us straight on this, this was something, again, you said was planned. And what we're seeing, a small group of rogue protesters here, people who may not be able to be managed or corralled anyway, so really causing disorder in something that was supposed to be peaceful. And also what we're looking at, I'm being told, is a Serbian Orthodox church service. Continue please, Alessio.
VINCI: Right. The Serb Orthodox service is obviously for those people who aren't necessarily familiar with Kosovo or why Kosovo is important for Serbs, Kosovo has often been described in Serbia as Serbia's Jerusalem. It is the cradle of Serb civilization, of medieval times. There are important and historical monasteries belonging to the Serb Orthodox Church in Kosovo. Those same monasteries have been attacked on several occasions.
And years ago when NATO forces, once they pushed out Serb paramilitary forces in the Yugoslav army at the time, there was a spate of revenge attacks and killings against the few remaining Serbs in Kosovo, and during those attacks, most of those -- many of those churches and monasteries were also burned. Some of those were also burned in 2004 when there was renewed clashes between the two sides. So Kosovo is for Serbia an extremely sensitive and important historical and religious site. And that is why you're seeing these pictures out of Belgrade, out of this cathedral in the heart of Belgrade, because they want to make sure the world understands that's why Kosovo matters so much to them.
LEMON: OK, Alessio, stand down a bit. We're going to a break here, but we appreciate your perspective. And also we have some expertise here. Our Fredricka Whitfield covered the Kosovo refugee crisis back in 1999 and can also offer her perspective. We have our international desk, as I said, the worldwide resources of CNN on top of this. We're going to continue to follow it.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK, we're following the developing story happening in Belgrade, an attack on the U.S. embassy. Joining us is Robin Oakley, our European political editor. You've been on the phone with folks who are close to the situation. What are they telling you, Robin?
ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically this is a reflection of the very, very strong feelings there are in Serbia about the declaration of independence by the province of Kosovo which of course has been ruled by the U.N. effectively since 1999. What the Serbs feel is that they have had a raw deal in the sense that they feel they've been working toward a better democracy for the last seven years. They've told their people that, look, NATO bombed back in 1999 because of the bad things that Milosevic did, not because Western Europe had anything against the Serbs. Then they say, OK, European Union countries, the U.S., come if now and say, seven years later, after we've worked our way towards democracy, we tried to work our way towards getting into the European Union, the reward we get is that our country gets partitioned, and that is blessed by countries like the U.S. That's why feelings are running so strongly there.
There is of course the counterargument that the reason why Kosovo declared independence and got the support was the terrible things that happened to the Albanian Kosovars under the regime of Milosevic, the Serbian oppression that there was then. So feelings very, very strong on both sides.
Now I've talked to over the period leading up to the independence of Kosovo to a number of leading Serbian figures, Vuk Jeremic, the foreign minister. Several times he said to me, look, there is no way that Serbia is going to get involved if violence itself to get Kosovo back. The worry has always been that some people might try to take the law into their own hands, object physically, use violence, and in this situation to protest against the independence of Kosovo. What we're seeing now is an explosion of that sort of feeling on the streets of Belgrade.
LEMON: Robin Oakley, is our European political editor. Robin, We appreciate that. And just so, Robin, we don't overplay this, I want to tell you about that what we're getting here, we're being told that this was originally a Serbian Orthodox church service, a peaceful rally, as our Alessio Vinci said earlier, it was a peaceful rally, but then it turned violent somehow by a small group of people, a small group of protesters turning this violent. And they're saying that this was minor. It was minor, the part of it that turned violent. Overall, the thousands of people who turned out to this church service came there and they were peaceful.
And again, we're looking at the new pictures coming in. Is this live, or we still looking at live pictures? This is tape. New pictures coming in just moments ago. The incident is in front of the embassy, minor. They threw rocks at the embassy, broke some windows, and then took some signs off and made some signs of themselves. That was all, and then the police, you know, threw away whatever things that they brought to ...
OAKLEY: Yes.
LEMON: ...in protest.
OAKLEY: There's always going to be a small group who are going to turn these occasions to violence ...
LEMON: Right.
OAKLEY: ...as we've seen with so many political movements in so many places. And you can get groups even like soccer hooligans ...
LEMON: Right.
OAKLEY: ...who get involved ...
LEMON: You can't control, right.
OAKLEY: ...for the sake of it, and they can't be controlled.
LEMON: All right, Robin Oakley, we appreciate your perspective, thank you, sir.
WHITFIELD: All right, more perspective we want to get now on the conflict that's taking place there, at least the unrest. James Lyon is a senior Balkan adviser of the International Crisis Group and he joins us now from Belgrade.
Mr. Lyon, what are you experiencing where you are right now?
VOICE OF JAMES LYON, SR. BALKANS ADVISER, INTL. CRISIS GROUP: Well, right now, obviously because I'm a U.S. citizen, I'm not leaving home. It's rather -- there's a bit of unrest on the streets, and it's not necessarily wise to be out and about.
But what we're seeing here on the local television stations, and looking through the window is that essentially today we had a massive, very peaceful demonstration in front of the parliament building, at which was probably the largest crowd ever gathered in the history of Serbia. And a lot of the international news stations had been under- reporting the number. The real number of protesters was probably well over a million, perhaps close to two million ...
LEMON: Wow.
WHITFIELD: Wow, that's ...
LYON: ...people who turned out for this peaceful protest.
WHITFIELD: That's pretty significant, that's a huge turnout. And when you say a peaceful protest, it is indeed a protest, not a statement of we're looking forward to an easy transition to independence, but a protest against the declared independence?
LYON: That's correct. It's protesting against Kosovo's independence. Most Serbs feel that Kosovo is the heartland of Serbia. Most Serbs feel that it is their birthright and that it is the heart of Serbia. And this is the place where, for many of them, there is a great legacy from the medieval period, of very richly decorated monasteries, and for them, this represents a cultural, spiritual and religious heartland.
And so, for them losing Kosovo in spite of the fact that it is now 90 percent Albanian, for them losing Kosovo is a massive, massive blow. And for them, this brings into question their entire national sense of identity, who they are as a people and it also brings into question their entire orientation for the European Union.
Now, the photos we've been seeing of the violence going on in Belgrade, we have to keep in mind a couple of things. First of all, this is done by organized groups of football hooligans, these soccer clubs, who have been known in the past for going around and trashing the city after games, just like any other country in Europe where you have these soccer hooligans.
And the other thing is that they detach themselves from the larger group, and there's one main street in Belgrade called the street of Kenosmilosh (ph) in which you have within a very short distance, you have U.S. embassy, Canadian embassy, Croatian and Albanian embassies, and then just up the street behind it, you also have the Italian and the British embassies. And it appears that all of these embassies were subject to attacks.
WHITFIELD: Including, I understand from wire reports, the Croatian embassy has been subjected to some attacking.
LYON: Yes, most of the footage you've been showing on your television and identifying as attacks on the U.S. embassy ...
WHITFIELD: Yes.
LYON: ...were in fact attacks on the Croatian embassy itself. And the Croatian embassy seems to have been the target of some vandalism, as had the Albanian. But the U.S. of course, is the main target because it's the United States that has been pushing Kosovo independence and it has been helping the Albanians move toward independence.
WHITFIELD: OK, and Mr. Lyon, before I let you go, are we seeing the makings of a potential repeat of what we saw nine years ago? I covered this war and the consequent refugee crisis that resulted from it with predominantly Albanians leaving Kosovo to seek refuge. Are we seeing that this kind of potentially ethnic -- what could be the root of more ethnic violence between Albanians and the Serbs, making a repeat or finding its way again?
LYON: Very good question. Now, I hope that the answer is no because the differences this time are Serbia has said that it is not going to intervene militarily in Kosovo. Both President Boris Tadic (ph) as well as the Ultranationalist opposition leader, Mr. Nikolic and the prime minister Mr. Kostunica have all said they will not intervene militarily, that they will use peaceful and diplomatic means to protest what they regard as an illegal act.
WHITFIELD: All right, and James Lyon, thanks so much for your time, senior Balkan adviser from the International Crisis Group in Belgrade.
If we've watched these recently taped pictures that we're just now receiving, and you see these protesters taking it yet one step further, now trying to remove, potentially destroy the American flag there as their symbolic gesture. Clearly not happy about the U.S. support of Kosovo's declared independence.
Thanks so much, Mr. Lyon -- Don.
LEMON: And Fredricka, no matter how you feel about -- which side of the situation you're on or what have you, just seeing the American flag being taken down there kind of gives you a little thump, little pang in your heart there.
Again, we're following this developing story happening in Belgrade. We want to go now to our Zain Verjee, who is our State Department correspondent.
Zain, you were just in a briefing. New information for us?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, I just got off the phone with an official from the Serbian embassy who tells me that no one has actually entered the U.S. embassy itself. The official said there are an estimated half a million people there, or thereabouts. The official also said that the political leaders have told them be peaceful, no violence in this demonstration.
Now, this official told me that when this -- when these groups of protesters did turn violent, the small ones, the police could not get there in time. The official says that the police are on their way now. They are trying to calm the situation. The official added, too, that from the Serbian government's point of view, they're saying that they are committed to peace and they are trying to calm things down right now.
It's really not very clear how much damage has been done to the embassy itself, but our understanding now from this official is that the damage is on the outside, just outside of the consulate section -- Don?
LEMON: All right, our Zain Verjee. Zain Verjee, thank you very much. We're going to be relying on you throughout the afternoon here.
But again, you're looking at a protest in Belgrade. It's at the U.S. embassy. We're watching pictures now, what appears to be what we would call nothing other than the desecration of the American flag. It looks like they are trying to light it on fire. They were trying to remove it earlier.
But just again so we don't overplay this, a large rally, peacefully, that had been set up earlier, and then this ...
WHITFIELD: Against the ...
LEMON: ...against, right ...
WHITFIELD: ...independence declared by Kosovo.
LEMON: ...the independence and then now, this is a much smaller group being classified by everyone who's come on our air saying it's a small group of what you would call hooligans.
WHITFIELD: Right. Well, we're going to continue to watch the developments here. We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back with more of the NEWSROOM.
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WHITFIELD: All right, take a look at this. is the latest signal being sent by some -- a small handful of angry Serb protesters who were saying we don't like the position that the U.S. is taking in support of Kosovo's break to independence.
You're about to see some taped -- recently received pictures of this handful of protesters who have taken to the U.S. embassy there, which is vacant and closed at the time. Have taken down the flag and you see right there, are actually burning the U.S. flag there.
It began as a peaceful protest. About a million to maybe even two million Serbs who were peacefully protesting, saying they don't like the idea of Kosovo breaking away to independence, as declared this past weekend.
And then, as we heard from a number of analysts describe a small group of "hooligans" broke away and started carrying out more violent -- or I guess more aggressive kind of related protests like you're seeing right here of breaking into the U.S. embassy there, as well as setting fire to the American flag.
So, we're continuing to follow the developments there. The U.S. State Department has made its voices clear, they're closely watching the developments there and certainly hoping that it doesn't get out of hand. But there is a lot of concern about the continued volatility there in Kosovo as a result of what is taking place there, rather in Belgrade, Serbia, about what is taking place just not within the past nine years or so, but more concern about what's taking place just since this past weekend.
LEMON: Yes, and very interesting as we linger on these pictures here, Fredricka, I don't know if we can get those back, I think that was new video of them actually going inside of the embassy. It would appear that the embassy was on fire. Don't have that turn, but we just saw that. And if my eyes aren't deceiving me, I think we just saw that.
Real quick, while we try to get that turn, let's tell you exactly where Belgrade is. Obviously -- do we have that information? All right, great. There we go.
WHITFIELD: Formerly Yugoslavia.
LEMON: Just so -- formerly Yugoslavia, right. Go ahead, Fred, if you want to talk about it.
WHITFIELD: It's about the size of Kentucky. You know, relatively small when you look at the U.S. map. But certainly, very significant in the Balkan States here. And you know, for years, there has certainly been tension between the Albanians and the Serbs there. Belgrade, or Serbia, really making up about 90 percent of Albanians.
But, you know, it has been the contention from Albanians that they have been living an oppressed life for a very long time and there has been this chipping away of the structure of this country for the past few years, and now the Serbs are saying, we don't want to see the partitioning of this country, and certainly we don't want to see an independent Kosovo state.
And that's what has resulted this weekend, and so now, we see yet another bubbling up of tension between these groups that we've seen historically for a very long time, but now, this is sort of a new wave that we're witnessing.
LEMON: OK, and then also just so we know, it is a larger city of Serbia. But -- before I tell you about that, is, what I thought I saw before, the fire, some sort of explosive, and then all of a sudden, you see that rush into the building here, which we believe to be the embassy. And you can see -- there it is -- the fire inside of the windows here.
Those pictures just into the CNN NEWSROOM moments ago as Fred was going on about Belgrade and exactly what it is, the capital, the largest city in Serbia. Obviously, bordered by Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Macedonia, so we know in that part of the world there.
So again, formerly Yugoslavia as she said. But, what we're concerned about now, these disturbing pictures that are coming in to the CNN NEWSROOM. We've been seeing several flags -- now, they are removing another flag. And I can't make it out -- is that the Italian flag? I can't see from here. They removed the American flag earlier, set it on fire. And now, they're trying to remove another flag.
And we have someone on the phone, Kenija Nikolic, Kenija, what is Kenija's -- is she a journalist there or is she -- Kenija, are you a journalist there or are you just a ...
KENIJA NIKOLIC, I-REPORTER, BELGRADE: No, no, I'm just -- I just send the pictures because I could easy shot them from a terrace. And it was interesting, nothing more than that, yes.
LEMON: Yes, tell us what you're seeing and what you've shot pictures of.
NIKOLIC: Previously, I shot a pictures of demonstrators coming to meet together on the square in front of the parliament. And there were a lot of people coming, approaching for hours and hours over the bridge. And basically now, they're just going home, going back home, nothing else.
I was -- I'm watching actually on your channel about the things, I wasn't aware of them being in front of the embassy, all these protesters being in front of the embassy. But on the other hand, there were a lot more people and as much as far as I can see in front of the embassy, they're not that many people. So, I don't know really what to tell you.
LEMON: OK, and now it appears from your vantage point, now this is video that we are seeing that we just got in. But we saw a small group of protesters, and to us from what -- our vantage point, it appears that this has grown. Can you confirm or deny that?
NIKOLIC: I can't. I can't either confirm or deny. I can say what I'm watching from your channel actually.
LEMON: OK.
NIKOLIC: I might check out on some other. But, no, I can only see from my terrace, I can see a lot, and I mean really a lot of people going back home, and that's it.
LEMON: OK, all right. Kenija Nikolic, thank you very much. Kenija Nikolic, I should say, and she is watching all this unfold, also is an i-Reporter there.
Real quickly, let's just show the pictures -- show you guys a picture that she sent in, and we'll get back to this new video. But she's obviously watching this, she is a CNN i-Reporter, sent this in.
Of course, we ask for your i-Reports as well, CNN.com/i-reporter. Just go to CNN.com and look for the i-Report icon.
But again, we are following breaking news coming out of Belgrade there, an attack on the U.S. embassy and what appears to be other buildings around it. We saw a small group of what we were told were rogue protesters. And it appears from the pictures that we are getting in that this protest may have just grown in numbers and intensity.
Details to come here in the CNN NEWSROOM. We're going to listen in, and then we're back after a break.
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