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Rioters Attack U.S. Embassy in Serbia; Pentagon Defends Decision to Shoot Down Satellite; Texas and Ohio: Must Wins for Clinton
Aired February 21, 2008 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Belgrade, ablaze with fury at the U.S.A.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Rioters converge on the U.S. Embassy there in a fiery assault for independence for Kosovo.
Hello, again, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Kyra Phillips, at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
LEMON: And I'm Don Lemon.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
We are following developing news happening today. It is coming from our embassy. The embassy in -- the embassy in Belgrade. Apparently, Serbian protesters, which would appear to have been a small group, it appears those numbers have grown, and they are protesting on the U.S. Embassy there. Moments ago we saw fire started, what appears to be fire started inside of the embassy, and possibly several buildings around the embassy, as well as burning the American flag.
WHITFIELD: Right. And wile we're seeing that attack on the U.S. Embassy, there have been other symbolic attacks as well, we understand, at the Croatian Embassy, the United States, Britain, France, Germany. Likely all of those embassies are in the same area there on what we can call kind of embassy row. But all of those countries, including the U.S., have all come out in support of Kosovo's independence.
And so you are seeing these protesters, which started out as a very peaceful protest, now has erupted into something a lot more aggressive. Those protesters saying we don't like the idea of a Kosovo independence, and that's why this is taking place right now.
LEMON: And it appears to have gotten more violent as the minutes wear on here. While that's happening in Belgrade, back here in the CNN NEWSROOM, at our international desk, we want to tell you about and get you pictures over there. We are working at our international desk. There are the folks working feverishly, getting this story.
Of course, it's being widely reported widely on our international network, and then also here in the U.S. Our Isha Sesay, as well as our other international journalists, will join us here in the NEWSROOM to give us some guidance and perspective on this story. WHITFIELD: Right. Meantime, let's go to Washington, D.C., the U.S. State Department. Our State Department correspondent, Zain Verjee, has been attending a briefing there in Washington.
Just exactly how the U.S. is responding to what's taking place there in Belgrade, Zain?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack at the briefing said that this is an evolving situation, there's really not that much detail coming in. And as you know in these situations, there's a lot of conflicting information that we are trying to nail down.
McCormack said that there were reports up until today that the Serbs were providing adequate security forces on the ground. That may have changed, he said, but insisted that they have a responsibility to make sure there is adequate security around the U.S. Embassy. He added, too, what's important now is that the government act and get the forces necessary to deal with the situation.
And where is the U.S. ambassador and his staff? They are not in the embassy. The ambassador is at his residence. McCormack said that he was not there when this incident happened.
We understand, too, that diplomatic security and U.S. Marines, though, are at the embassy. But the majority, or all U.S. Embassy staff, in fact, is out. McCormack said, too, Fredricka, that the embassy has been able to carry out its diplomatic functions over the past few days, but the embassy has been closed to the public for a couple of days.
I also spoke to an official from the Serbian Embassy who says no one has actually entered the U.S. Embassy building itself. With regard to security and why the police forces were not there in time to prevent this sort of thing from unfolding and possibly escalating, the official said that the police just couldn't get there in time. They're on their way now trying to calm the situation down.
From the Serbian government's point of view, they say, we are committed to peace and we are trying to calm things down now. It's unclear how much damage there is to this embassy. We understand there is some damage outside the consular section.
And as you've been reported, Fredricka, the real anger here directed at the United States is because the U.S. supported the independence of the province of Kosovo. That is something that many Serbs believe is their birthright. It's a cultural, a spiritual heartland, and that's the real issue at stake now.
WHITFIELD: And, Zain, even though Serbs there, as well as countries like Russia and China, have all expressed that their condemnation of this declaration of, you know, independence, did this still catch the U.S. Embassy, or I should say the State Department, by surprise that it would reach this kind of feverish height?
VERJEE: Well, the State Department has said that there was always a possibility of things escalating, there could be violence. But they said that without supporting the independence of Kosovo, they would be more likely to lead to more violence.
The Under Secretary of State for political affairs, Nic Burns, had spoken to reporters, and he told us that had we not acted now, there would be more pressure for independence that could have led to even more violence. He had said just a couple of days ago that we should see a period of stability. This is the kind of scenario unfolding that the U.S. and many countries around the world that supported the independence of Kosovo would be extremely worried about right now.
WHITFIELD: Wow. And while NATO may have pulled out, I wonder if now this is going to encourage the U.N. to start talking one more time about, I guess, reinstalling NATO forces there.
VERJEE: Well, these are still early days right now, but certainly that is something that would be discussed right now. There is a danger that this could escalate, but from the United States' point of view, what they want is for the Serbian government to control the situation, to have the security forces. They appear to have been rolling in, as we can tell from this video, from a short while ago.
What they want is that they say that they want Serbia to take its rightful place in the European Union. They want them to have a better relationship with NATO. And they say that the plan in place, post- independence of Kosovo, calls for reassurances of Serbs living in Kosovo that they have the right to stay, and they're hoping that this situation can be contained. This is just a small group of people that have turned violent, and there's a danger it could escalate.
WHITFIELD: Yes. And I wonder if it was addressed maybe during that briefing, Zain. While I realize it's difficult sometimes to decipher the images, while the U.S. is saying they really do believe that Serb forces have enough security in place, that they can have the upper hand in this, at the same time we're seeing these Serb protesters carry out this kind of behavior. They're also throwing stones at what appear to be the Serb police vehicles. So it's a very strange situation to decipher here.
VERJEE: Well, these are hard-line, hardcore Serb nationalists, and they are angry. You know, if you talk to many people in Belgrade, what they'll tell you is, is, OK, you know, they don't like this has happened. But you know what? They say, if Kosovo wants independence, let them have independence. Let them be on their own.
There is a very big difference between many Serbs that you talk to in Belgrade and many Serbs that you talk to in the rural parts of the country who -- where you have more of a nationalist sentiment. But...
WHITFIELD: More so in the northern Kosovo.
VERJEE: Right, exactly. So these guys are, you know, a small group of people, they do not represent the bulk of the thinking of the people in Belgrade. WHITFIELD: OK.
VERJEE: And for the U.S.' point of view, what Sean McCormack said a little earlier at the briefing was that the United States will continue to maintain an open line, a diplomatic connection with the Serbian government. They may officially disagree with our action, he said, but we want to have a good relationship with them...
WHITFIELD: OK.
VERJEE: ... and the Serbian people.
WHITFIELD: Very good. Zain Verjee, thanks so much from the State Department -- Don.
LEMON: And just to tell our viewers, all of this because Kosovo, the former Serbian province, declared independence from Serbia. And that just happened on Sunday.
WHITFIELD: Right.
LEMON: And the big question is, is obviously, were they expecting this type of violence? Possibly were. We're going to get someone who might know about this, and would possibly be, if it were open, inside of this embassy.
Bill Wanlund is a counselor for public affairs. He's on the phone now and he joins us from Belgrade.
You're out of the building now. You would normally be in there. What are you seeing?
BILL WANLUND, WORKS IN U.S. EMBASSY IN BELGRADE: Well, hi, Don. Thanks for the -- for the chance to talk with you. Actually, what I'm watching now is CNN International. And -- and our embassy actually closed early today. We closed around noon, because -- not out of any concern about a direct or specific threat, but just because we knew there were going to be a lot of people coming in town.
We knew the streets would be full. We knew public transportation could be problematic. And in order for our staff to be able to get home, you know, in a reasonable and safe manner, we just decided to close the embassy early.
LEMON: So, Mr. Wanlund, if you're watching the pictures, if you're watching CNN and you're seeing the pictures there, the buildings that we saw, the protesters going inside, burning the flag in front of, and, of course, the -- what appeared to be fires inside, is that, indeed, the U.S. Embassy? And what buildings are surrounding it?
WANLUND: Yes, that is -- that is the U.S. Embassy, that sort of yellow building that you're seeing there. There are other embassies up and down the street. I haven't been -- as I say, I haven't been down all afternoon. I've been downtown all afternoon. So, I don't know what the -- what the situation is at the other -- at the other buildings. The offices on the ground floor of the embassy actually are -- actually are consular offices where we provide American citizens services and things -- services for Serbs. And that appears to be where the damage happened.
LEMON: Where the damage happened. And of course -- explain to us -- you said that you closed in expectation of the protests, a peaceful protest. And you knew that there would be more people on the streets today, but not in anticipation of a violent protest like this one.
WANLUND: That's right.
LEMON: Explain to our viewers here what is inside of that building, and if there's some information inside, what might be lost from inside of this building from these protests.
WANLUND: Oh, I really can't -- I really can't say. I really don't know, because, as I say, I haven't -- I don't know what the extent of the damage is inside the building.
I've seen what you've seen, of course, the fires. But I don't know how extensive the damage was inside. As I say, it's the consular section. It's -- they're typically unclassified records, visa applications, and passport applications. That sort of thing.
LEMON: Yes. Well, you answered the question. I said what might be lost. So this is unclassified records and applications.
WANLUND: Yes.
LEMON: OK. Great. Now, what -- if you look there -- if we can -- if you see them remove the banner, it appears that someone is on the ground there on both sides, right there to the right of the screen. It just went off, that picture. And then on the upper part of the screen as well -- there you go -- it appears to be the plastic restraints that you see.
And Mr. Wanlund, thank you very much for joining us. We're going to move on now.
But we saw the plastic restraints. We saw folks here also -- protesters on the street -- carrying what appeared to be parts of barricades and signs. And now what you have here, riot -- would it be riot, the equivalent of riot police here in the U.S. trying to get some of those people off the streets.
So, we want to thank Mr. Wanlund, who is the counselor for public affairs. He would normally be in that building. Not in that building today. Anticipating crowds, but definitely not a violent protest.
WHITFIELD: OK. On the phone with us right now, Ambassador Richard Holbrooke. He was involved in the negotiations of the warring factions in Bosnia years back. And Mr. Holbrooke, thanks so much. When you see the images, what are you thinking about all the work that was done in which to bring about a peaceful Kosovo?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Well, of course I have mixed emotions. The last time I stood on the streets, which we're looking at right this minute on CNN, was the last day I was in Belgrade when I delivered the ultimatum personally to Milosevic that if he didn't accept that position on Kosovo, we would start bombing. That was seven years ago, eight years ago -- 1999.
This situation that's -- we're watching now is very unfortunate, but the administration decision, the European Union decision to support Kosovo's independence, and to recognize Kosovo as an independent nation, was the right decision. There's no question about it. The Serbian government is going to have to get this under control. And I'm sure they will.
WHITFIELD: But can they go it alone? While the U.S. is saying this is the right decision, Britain, France, Germany also follow suit by saying this is the right decision. There are other nations that are backing the Serbs' position, such as Russia and China, who are saying, you know, to declare independence is destructive.
HOLBROOKE: Well, China's not a big factor here. The Russians are behind this because they have encouraged the worst and most -- most extremist elements in Serbia for the last year. So, what you're seeing on the streets is an indirect result of Russians refusing to use their influence for moderation.
As far as the Serbian government goes, the president of Serbia, Boris Tadic, is a pro-western president. I met with him last week in Munich, and he said that he would avoid just what we're seeing on the screen. So, I don't personally consider him responsible, but he's the -- he's the president of the country. He's got to get it under control.
WHITFIELD: Then what could he do to help get it under control?
HOLBROOKE: Well, the first thing is to get those crowds under control and to protect the embassy. Somebody told me a moment ago that the embassy wasn't even protected. There it is on the screen right now. And I'm just shocked at that. But this will be got under control. There's a lot of history here. You know, we bombed the city we're looking at on television right now...
WHITFIELD: Yes.
HOLBROOKE: ... for 77 days. CNN covered it live and...
WHITFIELD: And it's amazing how much building up has happened over the years to almost create a city that looked like it had not been bombed just eight, nine years ago.
HOLBROOKE: Yes. But, Fredricka, look, what we're watching here is a bunch of extremists. The bulk of the Serb people know full well that Milosevic's actions cost them the control of Kosovo. But you can't keep a place with 95 percent ethnic Albanians under the oppressive rule of essentially an outside power, the Serbs, as it had been since 1912.
This had to happen. The fact that it's not happened as peacefully as people had hoped is the direct result of the incitement to violence by extremist elements in Belgrade, implicitly and privately supported by the Russians.
Let's not get hysterical about this. The bulk of the European Union recognized them. The U.S. recognized them. Of course, this should have been done five years ago. And had it been, when -- before Prime Minister Djindjic was assassinated, before the Russians got so deeply involved, we wouldn't have been in quite as -- quite as tense a situation.
But I'm -- I don't think this is going to get out of control. But if it does, the Serbs and the Russians are accountable. And the U.S. should not be apologetic for having done the right thing.
WHITFIELD: So, Mr. Ambassador, I remember in 1999, to see mostly Albanians who were crossing the border fleeing after being forced from their homes, watching their loved ones be massacred, and their children as well being killed, you know, to see the dejection on the faces, to see people who are at a loss of what in the world has happened, describe for me how the Albanians and the Serbs have been able to coexist over the past eight to nine years, and then result in this kind of tension all over again.
HOLBROOKE: Well, I think it's important for your viewers to distinguish between what's happening inside Kosovo and what we're watching in Belgrade right now.
This is the Serb capital, and this is -- this is a very, very unfortunate attack on the U.S. Embassy. But it will be brought under control by the Serbs. I have no doubt. But the real issue, Fredricka, the real issue is what happens in Kosovo itself.
Ninety-five percent of the people are Albanian. The other five percent, maybe 100,000, 150,000 people, are Serbs. They live in enclaves. And sometimes there's an Albanian enclave inside a Serb enclave, making it all the worst.
The four northern districts of Kosovo are heavily Serb. They are rejecting the declaration of independence. That is the real flash point.
WHITFIELD: Yes. And I guess there's some feeling that the majority of those, of these hooligans that are being described, are actually from northern Kosovo, you know, part of that kind of radical, I guess, segment of the Serb population. Is that your understanding?
HOLBROOKE: Yes. Yes.
WHITFIELD: Yes. HOLBROOKE: And the real danger here is in a town called Mitrovitsa. It's the most dangerous city (INAUDIBLE). There's a bridge right down the middle of the town. On one side of the bridge are Albanians, on the other side are Serbs. But there are tiny little enclaves of Albanians living on the Serb side of the bridge.
That is the danger. And if this, what you're watching on TV now, spreads to Kosovo, and if people start killing each other, then you have a major European crisis on your hands. I have urged...
WHITFIELD: A repeat.
HOLBROOKE: Yes. And I've urged -- the last year, I've urged our European friends and the U.S. government to get some NATO -- additional NATO troops into that area before independence was declared, because we all knew this was going to happen. And everybody kept saying, well, let's wait and see what happens.
You cannot afford to wait and see what happens. You should put the troops in ahead of time to prevent these demonstrations in Belgrade from spreading down into northern Kosovo, because if they do...
WHITFIELD: Yes.
HOLBROOKE: ... then we're in a much more dangerous situation. You and I have been there before, having similar interviews.
WHITFIELD: Yes. OK.
Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, thanks so much. Important points there.
So we'll see if this becomes the impetus to, I guess, reinstate NATO once again to try and quiet what we're seeing, or at least keep it from bubbling up even further.
Ambassador, thank you so much for your time -- Don.
LEMON: Yes. He brings up some very interesting points when he talks about the NATO troops, and encouraging the U.N. to put in NATO troops. But also, the point that he bough up that was very interesting to me, now we understand why, because they're protesting independence and U.S. support of it. But when he talked about Serbia and Kosovo Serbs, they only make up less than 10 percent, right, of Kosovo's population? And they refuse, as much of this is happening, because they refuse to give up Kosovo, a territory considered the ancient cradle of Serbs, state (ph) and religion there.
So, it's happening on two fronts because of the support, and also because they are refusing to give up a region that they consider sacred. We want to get you now to CNN's international desk. Take a look at pictures now from the international desk.
Our Isha Sesay, as well as a wealth of our international reporters, working on this story from all over the world. CNN's worldwide resources on top of this.
We'll bring that to you in a minute here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Violence coming in from Belgrade, Serbia, where there's been an attack on the U.S. Embassy there. A very violent protest, as you can see, much of it still going on. We're getting live pictures, as well as new pictures just in to the CNN NEWSROOM. CNN's worldwide resources working this story.
Now our international anchor, Isha Sesay, joins us now from the international desk with the very latest on this -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hey, Don.
We are indeed working flat out here on the international desk to cover all angles of this story, monitoring very closely what is happening right now in Belgrade, Serbia's capital. We had expected these demonstrations to take place. We knew they were scheduled. What we didn't expect was the violent turn that they took.
At least 150,000 people gathering in the capital, in the center of the capital. And as we showed our viewers in the last hour, we saw the U.S. Embassy come under attack. At the time of the attack, just to stress for our viewers who may just be joining us, only Marines and diplomatic security were in the building.
We also saw flames. We saw a blaze in a certain part of that building. We understand now that that blaze is largely under control. As you'd expect at a time like this, here on the international desk we're reaching to our correspondents throughout Europe. We're also monitoring the images that are coming in to us. We're scouring Web sites in the region and I-Reports that are coming in to us.
We want to share this now with our viewers. It was sent to us just moments ago by (INAUDIBLE), who is in Belgrade. You see there -- what you're looking at is a main bridge in Belgrade overwhelmed by Serbs marching to the national parliament and the city cathedral.
At this point in time I want to bring in one of our senior editors, Eli. I want him to talk us through the images he's been monitoring throughout the day coming in from Serbian TV.
Eli, what have you been seeing?
ELI FLOURNOY, SUPERVISING EDITOR, INTERNATIONAL DESK: Yes. On Serbian television, you can see here they are doing cultural programming. This is all about the national identity of Serbia. These were planned demonstrations and programs earlier.
We saw orthodox Christian ceremonies and a large number of demonstrators. You can't see them there in the pictures yet, but you see they're singing folk music and songs. And large crowds had gathered in Belgrade, and it was out of these crowds and out of these demonstrations that then bled out onto the streets of Belgrade and spread out. They became -- they became violent, and police had to step in and try to move the protesters away from the diplomatic areas and businesses that were being affected on the streets of Belgrade.
SESAY: All right, Eli. Many thanks for that.
Right now we're turning to pictures from The Associated Press. We'll bring them to you as soon as we can. Don, back to you.
LEMON: Isha Sesay, we appreciate it. Thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right. More reaction from Belgrade, Serbia, right now. We're joined on the phone by Milos Vasic of the Serbian magazine "Vreme."
So, Milos, there have been many who said they saw this coming as soon as Kosovo declared independence. Did you or did anyone else on the ground see this kind of outburst coming?
MILOS VASIC, SERBIAN MAGAZINE "VREME": Well, we expected it. What is happening tonight is the worst case of the bridge of public peace and order since -- since the year 2000, I would say. And what worries me is that considerable police forces with special vehicles, special equipment, et cetera, are still being unable to take control of the scene.
WHITFIELD: So, you're saying you were seeing that the Serbian forces, as the U.S. State Department has already said they have confidence in getting this situation under control, you're are saying you're concerned that the Serbian forces really cannot handle this kind of scale of protest?
VASIC: Right now what we have in the streets is some sort of a standoff situation with very quick, mobile, and obviously well- motivated groups of protesters challenging the police all over the center of the city. Stretching them thin, because the police have to protect so many important buildings -- embassies, firms, et cetera.
WHITFIELD: Well, are they able to protect the buildings? We just heard from the former U.S. ambassador, who said he is surprised to see that the U.S. Embassy and other nearby embassies would be so unprotected that they could be penetrated this way by protesters, by taking down flags, burning them, breaking windows, et cetera.
What is the usual kind of protection outside these important buildings?
VASIC: Well, it depends on the pressure of the attackers. On Sunday night, we had a similar case, where the police wasn't exactly motivated to defend the building. They showed what we would call sort of passive defense. But the building, it was -- the building itself wasn't damaged.
WHITFIELD: OK.
VASIC: Tonight, it was damaged. Thank God, the U.S. Embassy compound is very big. What has been affected right now is only the consular part of it, facing the main street. And I hear it's -- the fire there is under control.
WHITFIELD: Right. So thankfully that embassy and other embassies nearby were closed. In fact, we talked to someone who works at the U.S. Embassy who was talking to us from his home, and he said they actually closed the embassy early because it was public knowledge that there would be a large protest taking place there in the city, but just to make sure, folks got a chance, people got a chance, to go home early.
So, give me an idea what the anticipation was building up to what was to be a peaceful and rather sizable protest.
VASIC: There were general warnings and suggestions from our president, the prime minister, et cetera, that the protests, they should be "peaceful and dignified." But the problem is that if you gather something like 150,000, 160,000 people in the streets...
WHITFIELD: Yes.
VASIC: ... and -- you will always have a pretty sizable minority of extreme right-wing chauvinists (ph), football (ph) fan tribes, neo- Nazis, and people like that, who would use any opportunity to attack western embassies and what -- McDonald's restaurants and whatever they perceive a sign of western imperialism, or whatever they are calling it these days.
WHITFIELD: Does the minority of those who have caused trouble, do they represent a majority view that people there in general do not like the idea of Kosovo declaring independence?
VASIC: I think -- I think we are talking a definite -- a definite minority. But if your minority builds up to something like 1,000 or 1,500 people...
WHITFIELD: OK.
VASIC: ... well motivated, well organized, well coordinated...
WHITFIELD: OK.
VASIC: ... with the means of telecommunication...
WHITFIELD: Milos Vasic...
VASIC: ... they will make lots of trouble in a city like that, which is two million.
WHITFIELD: Milos Vasic of "Vreme" magazine there in Serbia. Thank you so much for your time -- Don.
LEMON: Yes, we want to continue to follow this developing news. Of course, you're looking at pictures here, some of it taken moments ago. And at times we have been showing you live pictures here on CNN.
I want to give you some information just reported to us from our State Department correspondent, Zain Verjee. Zain says a State Department official has confirmed that the Serbian police have secured the perimeter of the embassy, and according to this U.S. official, things are under control there.
So, our State Department correspondent, Zain Verjee, on top of it, reporting that Serbian police have secured the perimeter and that the Serbian police are on top of it. Things are under control.
But right now, as we continue to get some perspective on this story, and more guidance, we want to turn to General Wesley Clark. He joins us now by telephone.
General, surprised by this violence or was it expected?
VOICE OF GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: I -- Big demonstrations were expected. There are lots of rough groups still in Serbia, remnants of paramilitaries, angry radicals, and so forth. And they would take advantage of something like this to dramatize their views.
LEMON: To dramatize their views.
Now, as we say, we don't want to overplay this, general. We're being told that you're looking at this now -- one person, we heard them say millions. But according to official estimates, about 150,000 people had come out for this, what was supposed to be a peaceful protest and then an Orthodox Serb church service, Serbian church service. And then, sort of a splinter group, a smaller group of these people, rebel group, one might say, struck up this violence.
So, how can you characterize this? This is a very small percentage of Serbian people, a very small percentage of people here, who are in protest, or at least in violent protest of this.
CLARK: This is a radical minority. And, on the other hand, the hot rhetoric of the Serb government, has given legitimacy, some degree of legitimacy, to these kind of sentiments. And the government didn't properly prepare to protect the American embassy at the time that it was necessary to do so.
And, you know, we will have to just see whether this was, as your previous person, spokesman, said there, whether it was a degree of passiveness in the part of the Serb police in organizing to prevent this. Certainly the government bears responsibility for protecting the American embassy. And something like this represents a failure of responsibility of the Serb government.
LEMON: And, you know what, general, we've been hearing these names, Slobodan Milosevic and we remember the war over Kosovo back in the late '90s. And we've been hearing about this. And also recently, as of Sunday, Kosovo declaring its independence. But, again, this is over that U.S. support in other countries' -- supported that, but also, as well, land there. They don't want to give up that territory, even though it's a small amount. Even though they make up less than 10 percent of Kosovo's population.
CLARK: That's true. They don't. But there was a two-decade- long effort of let's call it colonial domination of the Albanian minority there. Repressing them, preventing them from using their language, kicking ethnic Albanians out of positions in the university positions, positions in hospitals, positions in the government services. It was a -- it was an exercise of repression.
And the Kosovar Albanians stood up for their rights like people would anywhere. And the Albanians -- the Serbs then cracked down with extraordinary violence. You may recall that in 1998, some 300,000 to 400,000 Albanians were driven from their homes in Kosovo.
LEMON: Right, right.
CLARK: And then again in the spring of '99, the ethnic cleansing started again. NATO spent nine months of efforts to empower diplomacy, and finally there was no alternative but to follow through on the warnings we'd given Milosevic; the warnings that were actually first given by President George H. Bush, in the December period of 1992 when he warned Milosevic not to use violence against these ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.
And NATO did follow through. And NATO took action, broke Milosevic's will. The Serb military and police were pulled out. And so, some two million people were held in legal limbo for nine years. Properties couldn't be sold. Customs couldn't be collected. Businesses couldn't be operated.
The unemployment rate was 60 percent. And, so, really, given the -- some of the passions that you can see on the screen in front of you, it's not surprising that really the only alternative was independence --
LEMON: Right.
CLARK: -- for this province. And now the United States and its European allies have to make this work. And we need Russia's support, and Russia surely can see that it's -- this is the 21st century. There's no place for this kind of hateful nationalism in the 21st century.
LEMON: And we've been talking about making this work. And, of course, this rally, the official line from -- from the Serbs is that they had planned, of course, to protest the independence, to challenge the declaration of independence. They wanted to do it politically and nonviolently.
So I wonder what this means as far as their cause. And also, is this added pressure on the countries who do support this to continue to put pressure on the government there to stop the violence? What is --
CLARK: Well, I hope that this --
LEMON: Go ahead, general.
CLARK: I hope Western countries won't lose heart because 1,500 people are out throwing molotov cocktails -- LEMON: Right.
CLARK: -- and breaking windows and so forth.
LEMON: Right.
CLARK: I mean, this is a major step for two million people. And it's a major opportunity for Serbia itself to give up its nationalist past and face a European future of much more prosperity and movement and integration with the West. I'm sure that there are those in Russia who probably are looking at this and don't want -- they wouldn't want Serbs to face to the West and forget their dependence on Russia.
So, there's a little bit of a superpower dance involved in this. Kind of an echo of the Cold War, so to speak. But the Cold War is long over --
LEMON: OK.
CLARK: And Russia's doing a lot of business with the West, surely Serbia can, too.
LEMON: Hey, I'm up against the clock here, but just real quickly, what happens from here, general?
CLARK: Nato forces in Kosovo are going to be the alert to make sure we don't have violence there and try to prevent the violence from being exported by some of these same people from Serbia into Kosovo.
LEMON: General Wesley Clark, thank you very much, sir.
CLARK: Thank you.
LEMON: We're back in a moment.
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WHITFIELD: All right, much more of our breaking situation there in Serbia. We're continuing to watch the protests that have gotten quite out of hand there. We'll also get an update from the U.S. State Department in a moment. But, first, we want to get back to some other news, the CNN political ticker for starters.
Republican presidential front-runner, John McCain, denies assertions that he gave special treatment to a female lobbyist. McCain confronted the assertion at a news conference today, accompanied by his wife, Cindy. "The New York Times" reports that during McCain's 2000 presidential campaign, McCain aides urged McCain, and the lobbyist, to stay away from each other.
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SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm very disappointed in "The New York Times" piece. It's not true. And --
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WHITFIELD: The McCain campaign calls "The New York Times" story, a smear. The newspaper says the story speaks for itself.
Now, turning to the Democratic presidential race. Pundits have been calling the Texas and Ohio primaries must-wins for Hillary Clinton. In Texas yesterday, someone very close to Mrs. Clinton agreed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If she wins in Texas and Ohio, I think she'll be the nominee. If you don't deliver for her, I don't think she can be. It's all on you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: So, both Texas and Ohio hold their primaries March 4th. Democratic front-runner, Barack Obama, meanwhile, has picked up yet another victory. Officials say he won the Democrats abroad. Global primary with about 65 percent of the vote, about 20,000 U.S. citizens living in nearly 200 foreign country participated, casting ballots in special polling places by mail or via the Internet. Seven delegates were at stake. It's the eleventh straight primary victory for Obama.
LEMON: A Texas showdown for the Democratic presidential candidates, at the University of Texas in Austin. They're making final preparation for tonight's CNN debate between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. The stakes are especially high for Clinton after Obama's recent string of victories. She badly needs a win in the March 4th Texas primary. Live CNN coverage starts at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, of course, only here on CNN.
As Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton get ready to debate in Texas tonight, our latest poll shows the two are running neck in neck among Texas Democrats. Poll conducted by the Opinion Research Corporation shows Clinton with 50 percent and Obama with 48 percent. The CNN poll suggests that if the general election were held today, either Democrat would lose Texas to Republican, John McCain. Texas voters who were interviewed preferred McCain over Obama, 52 percent to 44 percent. They preferred McCain over Clinton, 55 percent to 42 percent.
WHITFIELD: And we'll have much more on this top story, the continued unrest in Serbia. Right there. We'll also be joined with a live report from the U.S. State Department out of the nation's capital. Much more of the NEWSROOM right after this.
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LEMON: The streets of Belgrade awash in violence today, as protesters target the U.S. embassy there and several other embassies on Embassy Row. We have been watching the violence here all afternoon in the CNN NEWSROOM. We want to get to our Zain Verjee who is reporting from the State Department. And as I understand, Zain has some new information. Zain, you told us that everything was under control. What do you have for us now?
VERJEE: We spoke to two officials here who say that the -- it seems as though Serb security forces have begun to establish a security perimeter around the embassy compound. They say that things appear to be under control now. But they also insist that the situation is still very fluid. One -- one official that I spoke to said the next step is really to clear the entire compound of the protesters.
The last of the rally and the service that has been going on is beginning to break up now. So over the next few hours they hope that that is broken up. We understand, too, that there is a handful of diplomatic security and U.S. Marines still at the embassy to help protect it and ensure that no classified documents disappear or nobody breaks in and steals them.
We understand, too, that Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, according to a senior State Department official, has also just been briefed on the situation on the ground. The State Department is in touch with the ambassador in Belgrade. Nic Burns, the State Department's point man on this region, is also in touch, directly, right now, with Serbian officials and insisting that they are obliged to protect this U.S. facility -- Don.
LEMON: Zain Verjee, reporting from the State Department. Zain, thank you very much for that.
WHITFIELD: All right, much more of the unrest in Belgrade, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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WHITFIELD: All right, once again, some of the latest images we're seeing out of Belgrade, Serbia, and what we understand now through the U.S. State Department reporting is that Serbian forces feel that they have secured control of the U.S. embassy and other nearby embassies that have been under attack. What had turned out to be fairly violent, aggressive protests taking place, all in protest over the declaration of independence of Kosovo, just four days ago.
And now, some Serb protesters, where it started out as a fairly peaceful protest of about 150,000, well, a handful of kind of rogue protesters broke away, caused this kind of disruption there in the center of town in Belgrade. We're continuing to watch the situation there out of Serbia.
LEMON: Absolutely, and we have some other news, other news happening in the world today. Let's talk about success in space. Here's video of that satellite shootdown you've been hearing about, heard about all evening and earlier today on CNN.
The U.S. Navy launched a missile from a carrier in the Pacific last night. And as you can see, that rogue satellite was blown to smithereens. The Pentagon's tracking the debris as it falls towards Earth. None of the pieces is believed to be bigger than a football. It's not clear whether the missile shattered the fuel tank loaded with 1,000 pounds of hydrazine.
The Pentagon's defending its shootdown of a wayward spy satellite, but some nations see it as more of a military exercise.
CNN's John Vause is in Beijing with the Chinese government's reaction.
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JOHN VAUSE, CNN BEIJING CORRESPONDENT: Officials in Beijing have been choosing their words carefully, playing up their concern about any harm the satellite shootdown may have done to outer space as well other countries and demanding more information from the United States.
LIU JIANCHAO, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESMAN (through translator): China further requests that the U.S. fulfill its international obligations in earnest and promptly provide to the international community the necessary information and relevant data so that relevant countries can take precautions.
VAUSE: But the Chinese conducted a successful test of the satellite-killing weapon just over a year ago. At the time, they were harshly criticized by a number of countries and the U.S. administration launched a formal diplomatic protest.
And so, today in the overseas edition of the "People's Daily," the official newspaper of the Communist party, there was a very blunt front-page editorial, accusing the U.S. of hypocrisy, and of having dangerous space ambitions.
Adding to all of this tension, earlier this month, both Russia and China had proposed a treaty to ban weapons in space. But that was rejected by Washington.
On the satellite shootdown, U.S. officials are pointing out that they announced their plans well ahead of time, whereas the Chinese test last year was conducted in secret, and they only fessed up once they were caught out by U.S. intelligence.
John Vause, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, John, we also want to add to this. The U.S., this is according to the Associated Press, the U.S. defense chief says U.S. prepared to share some missile defense-related technology with China, again, that the U.S. is prepared to share some missile-related defense technology with China. That is according to the Associated Press.
We're going to get more from our Suzanne Malveaux. She's in Hawaii. She's in a press conference right now. We'll get an update from her coming up shortly.
WHITFIELD: All right, meantime, let's talk about Wall Street and what's taking place. The stocks there have turned sharply negative.
I don't know, I remember, Suzanne, they were sharply negative yesterday, too. It's been a sharply negative week, hasn't it?
(BUSINESS HEADLINES)
LEMON: And the violence has been happening in Serbia. What sparked it, what's exactly behind it and what is next and what are officials saying?
Our European political editor, Robin Oakley shared some perspective with us a little bit earlier.
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ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN EUROPEAN POLITICAL EDITOR: What the Serbs feel is that they have had a raw deal in the sense that they feel they've been working towards a better democracy for the last seven years. They've told their people that, look, NATO bombed back in 1999 because of the bad things that Milosevic did, not because Western Europe had anything against the Serbs.
Then, they say, OK, European Union countries, the U.S., come in now, and say seven years later, after we've worked our way towards democracy, we tried to work our way towards getting into the European Union, the reward we get is that our country gets partitioned and that is blessed by countries like the U.S. That's why feelings are running so strongly there.
There is, of course, the counterargument that the reason why Kosovo declared independence and got their support was the terrible things that happened to the Albanian Kosovars under the regime of Milosevic, the Serbian oppression that there was then. So, feelings very, very strong on both sides.
I've talked to, over the period leading up to the independence of Kosovo, to a number of leading Serbian figures, Vuk Jeremic, the foreign minister. Several times he said to me, look, there's no way that Serbia is going to get involved in violence itself to get Kosovo back.
The worry has always been that some people might try to take the law into their own hands. Object physically, use violence, in this situation, to protest against the independence of Kosovo. What we're seeing now is an explosion of that sort of feeling on the streets of Belgrade.
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LEMON: European political editor Robin Oakley sharing his perspective there.
We're going to be back in just a moment. But we want to leave you with these pictures, they're from the Associated Press. It is of violence happening in Serbia. The attack on the U.S. embassy, as well as several other embassies on U.S. row -- on Embassy Row there in Belgrade. CNN NEWSROOM continues.
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