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Family Says Dying Woman Twice Refused Oxygen on Flight/Nanny Caught On Tape Handling Premature Twins Roughly
Aired February 25, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: A dream vacation turns into a nightmare at 30,000 feet. Flying back to the U.S. after a trip to the Caribbean, a beloved nurse allegedly begged flight attendants for help over and over, claiming she couldn`t breathe, other passengers agitated and angry over the airline`s alleged lack of concern. According to the family, not one oxygen canister, nor the defibrillator worked on board. The victim`s final words? I can`t breathe. Don`t let me die. What really happened aboard American Airlines flight 896?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A disturbing incident on board an American Airlines flight. Carine Desir complained of breathing problems and later died on a flight from Haiti. The woman`s cousin says they asked for oxygen twice and were refused. And when a flight attendant finally did try to administer the oxygen from a portable tank, it was empty. The airlines are standing by the flight attendants, saying they are professionals and trained in assisting passengers in medical emergencies. The medical examiner`s office says the woman had heart disease and died of natural causes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said, My darling, please don`t let me die. Go ask some for oxygen. Please, baby. I love you, baby. I love you. Don`t let me die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a young North Carolina mother gets the shock of a lifetime when she heads to work, logs on to her home-installed secret nannycam set up right there in her own den. Within hours of setting up the nannycam, her brand-new infant twins spotted at risk, being man-handled by a mommy -- a nanny that fooled mommy. It was all caught on the nannycam. And tonight, why no charges?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom hired a nanny to watch her 7-month-old twin boys. Thankfully, she bought a videocamera so she could see what was going on. And she caught an eye-full from work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In one video clip, the nanny leaves Gavin (ph) unattended on the couch. He falls down and struggles. She ignores him. At one point, the nanny is so consumed with television, she allows Bryce to fall off her chest onto the couch. What really got to Addison was how the nanny continually moved the twins by grabbing their clothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And also tonight, upscale malls Boca Raton, Florida, apparently stalked by a serial killer targeting moms in pricy SUVs, three attacks within four months of each other, each in broad daylight, all in mall parking lots. Victims, three moms already attacked, their children with them. After grainy surveillance video emerges, police demanding beefed-up security at area malls. Tonight, the search for the Boca malls predator.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With police on high alert, searching for a suspect stalking women and children at a Boca Raton mall, local authorities are asking private mall owners to step up security. Three mothers, two children, the victims of brutal attacks, all of them in broad daylight, but no security cameras in the parking lot where the attacks occurred. Since the murder mystery, owners of that mall say they are now working with the National Crime Prevention Council, adding a police substation and providing mere parking closer to the stores.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Nancy`s wrists were bound with handcuffs. He zip-tied her neck to the headrest and placed swimming goggles with blacked-out lenses over her eyes. Two shots, just like that, Nancy and Joey were murdered, shot at point-blank range, each taking a bullet to the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. First tonight, a woman fights for her life aboard an American Airlines flight, death at 30,000 feet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gasping for air, Carine Desir knew she was in serious trouble.
ANTONIO OLIVER, COUSIN: My darling, please don`t let me die. Go ask for oxygen for me, please, baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her cousin, Antonio Oliver (ph), tells CNN affiliate WABC he begged an American Airlines flight attendant twice to bring him oxygen.
OLIVER: Please, sir, bring me some oxygen for her. He say it isn`t possible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three doctors and four medical personnel on board tried saving the Brooklyn resident. Her cousin describes it this way.
OLIVER: When they opened the oxygen tank, there`s nothing in the tank.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Desir`s cousin says a second oxygen canister also failed, as did an automatic defibrillator normally used to jump-start the heart.
OLIVER: It wasn`t working.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you know?
OLIVER: Because the doctor said nothing`s working on the plane. I can`t believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the doctors, through a lawyer, says he can`t confirm exactly how much oxygen was in the canister. And while an American Airlines spokesman acknowledges they`re investigating why the defibrillator did administer a shock as it should have, the airline says, quote, "We stand behind the actions and training of our crew and the functionality of the on-board medical equipment."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to CNN correspondent Deborah Feyerick. Deborah, what happened?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that`s the whole thing, the airline has one story, the victim`s family has another story. But the victim`s family says that they asked for oxygen twice and just the victim never got that oxygen. I called American Airlines to find out what they had to say, and they really said that they acted properly.
According to American Airlines, what happened was, after about two to three minutes, the captain got on the PA system and asked passengers for medical assistance. And at that time, three doctors and four other medical personnel came to try to help the woman. They gave her oxygen. They administered CPR for 45 minutes. They were even going to make an emergency landing in Miami. But about 20 minutes outside Miami, the woman died. There was a defibrillator present, but it`s very unclear as to whether the defibrillator was working properly because it never gave notice that a shock was needed to start her heart, even though she`d gone into some sort of arrest.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Dara Welles, news anchor with WOR 710. Dara, welcome. Take it from the beginning. What exactly happened, according to the family?
DARA WELLES, WOR RADIO 710 NEW YORK: According to the family, they were coming back on flight 896 on Friday. They were arriving at JFK airport from Haiti. And the passenger had had a meal. She said she was thirsty and asked for water. Ms. Desir did get water. But then things started to deteriorate, according to her cousin and her brother, Joel (ph), both traveling with her. They said that she had difficulty breathing. And as you heard in the package and as Deborah just said, she said, I can`t breathe. Don`t let me die. According to the cousin, they asked for oxygen.
But one thing you should know. I worked for an airline -- not American, I hasten to say -- and a flight attendant is not supposed to administer oxygen immediately. This woman also had a fear of flying. So it`s possible, perhaps, that she was hyperventilating a little bit, maybe afraid to fly. She had a history of hypertension, which was (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Do we have any evidence suggesting that she was hyperventilating, Dara?
WELLES: No, but if you are a flight attendant on board, the first thing you do is not give oxygen. You try and assess the situation. Obviously, Nancy, if this woman truly were in medical distress, I can`t imagine why a flight attendant would not act immediately.
GRACE: Well, you know what? That`s really interesting because she died, so obviously, she was in distress.
Now, according to her family, Deborah Feyerick -- Deborah, senior correspondent -- the family says she asked over and over for oxygen and at least two times was denied that by the flight attendants. What does American Airlines have to say to that?
FEYERICK: Well, you know, I spoke an aviation lawyer, and this was a very interesting point. The aviation lawyer told me that the flight attendants are trained in basic medical response. What they`re not trained to do is diagnose. And the lawyer told me, he said, Look, you know, they don`t give meals. They don`t give peanuts on flights. But if somebody`s asking for oxygen, that`s not an unreasonable request, that they should have given her that oxygen because those tanks are supposed to be available.
And not only that, the reason you have medical oxygen on board these planes is because with people, especially those with preexisting medical conditions, they can lose the ability to breathe, and that`s why those are there. So it`s very unclear as to why she was even denied the oxygen, why it took the captain two to three minutes. And clearly, that`s a question that American Airlines is going to have to answer. It`s not port authority police who are investigating this, it`s the airlines themselves, as well as the FAA. They`re going to step in and examine everything relating to this case.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Jenny in Texas. Hi, Jenny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on your twins.
GRACE: Thank you, love. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, well, I just recently took a CPR and defibrillator course. And they said that in flight, the defibrillators will not do the shock, that you have to be landed. They have to do an emergency landing in order for the defibrillator to work. So that is why the machine did not work in mid-air. And my question is, how can they find an oxygen -- can they determine through the oxygen tank how much oxygen was actually in it when they tried to give her oxygen?
GRACE: Let`s go out to Dr. David Posey, medical examiner with the Glen Oaks Pathology Medical Group in LA. Dr. Posey, I don`t understand. If a defibrillator doesn`t work on a plane, why have one on a plane?
DR. DAVID POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER: I think that`s a real good question. It should work, and obviously, if what we`re told is true, that they don`t work while they`re in flight, then the only other option is manual cardiopulmonary resuscitation, which evidently was done by the experts on board, by the doctors and nurses.
GRACE: Let`s go out to George Davis, commercial airline pilot joining us out of Sacramento, California. Welcome, Captain. Don`t the defibrillators on planes actually work? I mean, why would you even have one if it didn`t work?
GEORGE DAVIS, COMMERCIAL AIRLINE PILOT: Yes, they do, Nancy. And in fact, we`ve had -- at the airline I work for, we`ve had numerous -- they call them "saves," where passengers have been -- their hearts have been resuscitated or brought back to a proper rhythm, if you will. Those things will not deliver a shock if there is no heartbeat at all. If it is in a state of arrhythmia, however, it will. And it will in flight. So I don`t know where the previous person got their information, but as far as the ones that we use, they do work in flight.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Todd in Alabama. Hi, Todd.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I was wondering, they were saying that when they finally did get to the tank to try to give her some, that there wasn`t no air in it. Ain`t there supposed to be routine checkups on this stuff, and inspections and everything, you know, by the state to make sure that there is air in case of an emergency?
GRACE: Let`s go back to Captain George Davis, a commercial airline pilot. How often are the oxygen canisters checked? I mean, you`ve got a dead woman who apparently, allegedly, begged the flight attendants to help her. And only when the other passengers, according to the family, became agitated and angry because the flight attendants wouldn`t help, did she finally get some attention. By then, it was too late. George, how often are the canisters checked?
DAVIS: They`re checked every flight, Nancy. Before the flight is -- before the passengers are even able to be boarded, those things are checked. One little note, however. There is what we call a minimum equipment list of a certain number of oxygen canisters that are required for every size of every airplane. And as long as they have those adequate number of working canisters, there can be some that are not working.
However, they`re supposed to be tagged and rendered inoperable and a notice placed on the oxygen bottle that says "Not for use" or "Empty." But there should be -- there should have been, at least I think on that type of aircraft, 12 working oxygen canisters. And if one was not working or two, according to the story we`re hearing, there should have been more, plenty more readily available within seconds.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Don McCune, aviation attorney and a former pilot for Northwest Airlines. Don, what do you make of it? How often have you seen complaints or heard complaints where the flight attendants refuse to give oxygen or render aid?
DON MCCUNE, AVIATION ATTORNEY: I have never heard of such a...
GRACE: Me, either.
MCCUNE: ... such an event, Nancy.
GRACE: I haven`t, either. What do you make of this? Do you expect there will be a lawsuit?
MCCUNE: Well, I expect it`s very possible that there will be a lawsuit. You know, obviously, we have a captive audience that witnessed the whole event, so there are people that there can tell us exactly what happened. The airline has its story. The family has its story. Sometimes the purpose of a lawsuit is just to get to the truth, and I expect one may be filed in this case.
GRACE: Let`s go back out to the lines. Sue in Massachusetts. Hi, Sue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m doing fine. Thank you for having me on your show. I just have a question. Did the woman happen to die from a pulmonary embolism?
GRACE: Let`s find out. What do we know, Deborah Feyerick?
FEYERICK: Well, the medical examiner said that she died of natural causes, that it was diabetes and also heart disease which contributed to her death. So it`s not clear whether there was any sort of embolism, but that`s what the ruling is, natural causes.
GRACE: Dara -- with us is Dara Welles, news anchor with WOR 710.
WELLES: Nancy, I was going to add, what Deborah was talking about -- according to a friend, Ms. Desir had an electrocardiogram just two weeks before she flew. And according to that friend, she had a clean bill of health. So honestly, I think it is really going to be up to the medical examiner to decide how she died.
And I`m just wondering, could they do an autopsy and find out how much oxygen she had taken in, and maybe that would answer the question about whether oxygen was truly administered?
GRACE: Could they, Dr. Posey?
POSEY: No, no. Once you die, you can`t tell how much was given. What you really need to do is, like the pilot says, look at the canisters and see exactly what was there. And they need to be tested individually. But you can`t, after a person dies, look at it and say they`ve received so much oxygen. That`s impossible.
GRACE: Dara, what I was actually going to ask you is, you mentioned that flight attendants are told not to give the oxygen?
WELLES: No, no. According to their union, that`s not the first thing you do when you see a passenger in distress because, as we talked about, this woman had a fear of flying.
GRACE: Well, what about when a passenger asks for oxygen?
WELLES: Again, it is up to the discretion of the flight attendant. If, in fact, it is visibly clear that the woman is having trouble breathing, yes, absolutely, she should have been given oxygen.
GRACE: Whoa! Let`s unleash the lawyers, Lisa Pinto, Darryl Cohen and Mickey Sherman. Lisa, if that`s the standard...
LISA PINTO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Oh!
GRACE: ... they`ve got a tiger by the tail. They can`t hold on and they can`t let go -- I`m talking about American Airlines -- if that is what they`ve told flight attendants, to, you know, use your discretion when somebody`s begging for oxygen.
PINTO: Yes, just let them (INAUDIBLE) Nancy, whether the tanks were empty, whether the tanks were mislabeled, whether the tanks with oxygen were hidden at the front of the plane, not the back of the plane, this woman is getting some money. Her family is not -- they`re not going to get her back, but they`re going to get a settlement because this is bad press for AA. They always settle.
Last year, a woman sued because her husband dropped dead of a heart attack on the way from Japan. This is not the first of the suits they`ve seen, and it`s not the last. Plus, you have the indignation of the passengers, who will get up there and say, Listen, she asked again and again. We could tell she needed oxygen. We begged the stewardess to give it to her. You`ve got problems.
GRACE: What about it Darryl Cohen?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think it`s going to depend, quite frankly, on exactly what the people, the other passengers, will have to say, whether or not she really begged or whether or not in their own mind, begging was...
GRACE: Well, obviously, it`s going to depend on the facts, but...
COHEN: Well, that`s it, Nancy. And I mean, quite frankly, if a doctors said -- came over there in 30 seconds, then it`s OK. But you and I both know that when something terrible is happening, lifetimes go by and it`s only a few seconds. It`s going to depend on the hysteria.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Back up (INAUDIBLE) They`re going to -- she`s going to make -- her family`s going to make a bundle, as well they should, and not just for compensatory damages but for punitive damages. Don`t forget, she`s a nurse. They treated her like some annoying Haitian woman who`s causing problems. This woman was a licensed nurse. She knew what she needed and she knew what she needed right then, and they denied it and they`re going to pay.
GRACE: Pat Brown, criminal profiler, got a question for you. People joke about it all the time, that on flights -- there have even been skits on "Saturday Night Live" about flight attendants, you know, and the way they handle the passengers. What do you make of this?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, first of all, I disagree entirely with Mickey Sherman. There is absolutely no way that the flight attendant is going to know she`s a nurse. And do not know that she had anything against Haitians. We do know that possibly, she was in the middle of running around, doing things. Perhaps there was a woman there who seemed like she was nervous about taking off and flying (INAUDIBLE) We don`t know anything yet at this point.
And I`ll tell you something else. CPR doesn`t necessarily save you. Only 15 percent of people who have heart attacks and go to the hospital come back out after CPR. So she might have died no matter what anybody did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) when they opened the oxygen tank, there`s nothing in the tank, nothing in the tank.
My darling, please don`t let me die. Go ask some oxygen for me. Please, baby. I love you, baby. I love you. Don`t let me die. I can`t breathe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY ADDISON, MOTHER OF TWINS: I started to see things I didn`t like. I`m screaming there at my desk, Pick them up! Pick them up! Pick them up! And she proceeded to look at them and continue on doing whatever she was doing. And that went on for six minutes.
And she doesn`t pick them up right away. And his head is buried in the side of the couch. I probably never would have suspected, never would have known, and she would still be here had I not had the camera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With a nannycam that she had just installed herself a few hours before, a mom gets the shock of a lifetime when she tunes in from work and sees her child being man-handled. There`s the baby`s face, straight down in the cushion.
Out to Amanda Lamb with WRAL. What happened?
AMANDA LAMB, WRAL: Well, Nancy, Lindsay Addison had some concerns about her nanny. She`d been working for her for about five weeks. She wasn`t sure the nanny was doing exactly what she and her husband wanted her to do with their 7-month-old twin boys. So she bought this camera. She got this camera on line. It wasn`t very expensive, around $300, pretty easy to install. And she installed it in her den, where the nanny spent most of the time with these babies, sitting on the couch, watching TV, tending to them, giving them bottles.
And she was able to log in to the camera from her computer at work, about 15 minutes away from the home. And when she started logging on, she started seeing this pattern of behavior. The babies, for example, picked up by their onesies, carried almost like you would carry a cat, if you grabbed a cat by the scruff of its neck, and kind of tossed in one direction on the couch. One of the babies was held under the arm like a football. Another baby was left unattended for about six minutes, fell over onto the couch, didn`t roll onto the floor, but could have easily rolled onto the floor.
So she started seeing this. And of course, she wasn`t watching it full-time. I mean, she was at work, so she was just logging in. When she started seeing this, of course, she got very upset and she immediately went home and confronted the nanny and fired her and called police.
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ADDISON: I did see Gavin laying on the sofa, kicking like he could have fallen off and her just walk past him for about six minutes. And I ran through red lights, and you know, came as fast as I could. And it took all I could not to pick up the woman that way, although I probably couldn`t have done it. (INAUDIBLE) had a videocamera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE GALANOS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS: Mom hired a nanny to watch her 7- month-old twin boys. Thankfully, she bought a videocamera so she could see what was going on. And she caught an eyeful from work. Look at this one, baby sitting on the lap and the baby just rolls off. She doesn`t even care. She flips the channel with the remote before she does anything else. Look at that. Baby upside down, a la a Michael Jackson deal. Watch how she handles these babies, picking him up by the onesie there, again, like this is a bale of hay or a puppy. This is the unthinkable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Mike Galanos of Headline News reporting. Joining me right now is a very special guest, the mother of those two infant twins, Lindsay Addison. Lindsay, thank you for being with us.
ADDISON: Thank you.
GRACE: As a mother of two premature twins myself, I was stunned at the video. Why did you decide to get a nannycam?
ADDISON: We really just had just a few suspicions on maybe things weren`t necessarily right, that she wasn`t doing as we had asked during the day. But nothing like this or, you know, as a mother yourself, you would never (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Here`s the part that`s killing me. I`m so freaked out about SIDS and breathing issues, the baby`s face lying down in the sofa cushion.
ADDISON: Right. Right. And she couldn`t pick him up. She had to get it to whatever station she wanted to watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven-month-old twins Bryce and Gavin were born three months premature. But now they`re thriving. Last month, their mother, Lindsay Addison, went back to work at Sachs. She posted an ad online and after interviewing six candidates, she hired a nanny with glowing references.
Last week, Addison installed a hidden camera to keep tabs on her children. She could check in on them from her work computer. In one video clip, the nanny leaves Gavin unattended on the couch. He falls down and struggles. She ignores him. Addison eventually rushed home. Addison told the nanny she`d been taped and asked her to leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to the lines. To Jackie in Indiana. Hi, Jackie.
JACKIE, FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
JACKIE: I`m -- well, I`m a nanny myself of twin girls and two boys also, a total of four. And I`m just shocked and appalled of this nanny. I cannot believe it. It brings tears to my eyes. What can this poor mother do to get -- you know, to punish this nanny? This -- I mean, this poor mother, this poor family. And what did the nanny say when she let her go and let her know that she was caught?
GRACE: To Lindsay Addison, the mother of the two twins, how old are the twins?
LINDSAY ADDISON, MOTHER OF TWINS, FIRED NANNY AFTER WATCHING VIDEO: They are -- they`ll be eight months old on the 2nd of March.
GRACE: I don`t know if you`re like me, but especially with yours being premature, their lungs are premature and having a child -- this is one shot of the child going down with the face on the sofa. There`s another shot where the face goes in between cushions. And the nanny just keeps clicking the TV flicker.
What did she say when you came home and confronted her?
ADDISON: At first she didn`t understand what I was talking about. And then when I demonstrated with the teddy bear, she said that that`s how she always picks up babies and how she always handles babies. And that`s more referring to grabbing them on their clothing.
GRACE: Oh, right there. And that happens more than once where the baby`s face is just stuck into the sofa cushion.
To Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and author, Dr. Robi, the power that you have over little infants like this, so abused in this situation.
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST, AUTHOR, "TILL DEATH DO US PART": Oh, it`s so awful. And what I think a lot people have to remember is that nannies, although they`re not all created equal, and some of them are not professionals, so parents should absolutely go with their gut. And if they have any questions at all, either visit, make an unannounced visit, or use those nanny cams so you can see what`s going on, because -- kids, as you know, they can`t -- don`t have a voice to say what`s going on. And so parents need to be very, very careful.
GRACE: Back to Lindsay Addison, the mom of the two twins in this video.
Lindsay, especially in light -- you were going to have triplets. And you lost a little baby.
GRACE: And you have these two. You have these two twins born premature, very premature, and it`s up to you to protect them. It`s on you to save their lives. What was your reaction when you saw this, plus more?
ADDISON: I know. I didn`t believe my eyes at first. And I kept asking co-workers who had come to my screaming desk and said, "Did I really see this? Did I really see this? I`ve got to go home. What do I do?" And took a co-worker straight home with me and told her to leave. She had to leave.
GRACE: I`m just imaging little John David or Lucy being treated like this.
ADDISON: You`d want to kill somebody.
GRACE: I wouldn`t need a gun. I`d use these.
ADDISON: That`s what everybody said. That`s what they said.
GRACE: Well, what made you consider getting a nanny cam to start with? Just an uneasy feeling? Something you couldn`t put your finger on?
ADDISON: Well, it was more father`s intuition. My husband never really got a great feeling from her, that I kept assuring him that everything was OK. And to ease both of our minds, we got the camera so I could prove to him she was great and wonderful and.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Alex in New York. Hi, Alex.
ALEX, FROM NEW YORK: Hello there. The question is why would you even continue to supply work for this nanny if you had such suspicion that you needed to install a camera, I mean, a live feed to your house? I mean that would seem like a bit of an extreme length if I felt so uneasy that I needed a camera in my house to watch the nanny who`s watching my two premature babies? I would.
GRACE: Lindsay, what about it?
ADDISON: It was never really -- it was really a sudden thing. I was with them a couple of days that things just seemed too perfect. She had all the right answers for everything. I just said, "You know, let`s just find out if anything is wrong." And I never would have left her in my house if I suspected she was doing that to my children.
GRACE: Pat Brown, I think there`s a lot to say for mother`s intuition. I really do.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": Absolutely. And there`s something that mothers need to remember as well, which is, you`re often hiring somebody who wants a job. They want -- don`t want to be a mother. And that`s the problem. That -- you know we have mothers` instincts and we have mothers` love for those children.
But a lot of people -- those are just, well, two things and they`re taking care of those things. And when those things get annoying, be a nanny. When the things get annoying sometimes they don`t react very well.
GRACE: I`m just watching.
BROWN: Not all nannies, not all nannies, but unfortunately, you have to be very careful that the nanny is a mother replacement, not just a job- keeper.
GRACE: I just saw the baby`s head hit down on the sofa arm.
Dr. Robi, this is painful to watch and this is just some of the video. Response?
LUDWIG: Right. And also imagine what we`re not seeing. I mean we don`t know what`s going on when we`re not seeing the tape. So it`s very scary stuff. And it isn`t always clear for parents. That`s why you`re right, Nancy, you need to follow your mother`s instincts.
GRACE: To Carol in California. Hi, Carol.
CAROL, FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. This video is absolutely sickening. And two things that struck me, especially, or that when these babies tumbled over, they seemed to be pretty unfazed by this. And I know as a mother, that little babies have a fear of falling. I know she was with them for five months, but these were awfully good little babies considering.
One more thing is that I notice that that she picked one baby up by the front of its sleeper and it seems like she kissed him. How weird is that?
GRACE: It`s very conflicting, Robi, quickly.
LUDGWIG: Well, some caregivers do feel conflicted. They feel angry that they have these crying babies who were dependent on them and then they have a loving feeling as well.
GRACE: It`s very confusing to me why criminal charges have not been filed.
Let`s unleash the lawyers, Lisa Pinto, Darryl Cohen, Mickey Sherman.
Lisa, I mean, no, we have not seen yet the nanny beating the child with a first.
LISA PINTO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right.
GRACE: But child abuse and child neglect, I think, are clearly in order.
PINTO: Endangering the welfare of a child. Even if it`s a misdemeanor you should haul that lady into the precinct and make her -- make sure that she has something on her record so no -- she doesn`t -- and some other family doesn`t get her.
Nancy, you know, when I was 6 years old, I had a babysitter who was supposed to take me to the park and instead took me shopping to Bloomingdale`s. And she told me if I told my mother, she would kill me and I believed that until to the point that I broke down.
So this doesn`t just happen to babies. This can happen to older children. And I still am so vigilant with my own nannies because of that experience. I mean there are freaks out there and they are left with the hope diamonds, our children.
GRACE: To Darryl Cohen, possible criminal charges?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, if it were me, she wouldn`t need criminal charges because, as you said, these two hands would take care of it. But, yes, if ever I had seen something on air, on camera, that says child abuse, screams child abuse, we see it. And if they don`t file criminal charges, that`s an abuse.
GRACE: To Bill in Indiana. Hi, Bill. I think I`ve got Bill. No? Oh it`s Summer in Florida. Hi, Summer.
SUMMER, FROM FLORIDA: Hi, hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
SUMMER: Well, I was just wondering what the -- what is the mom going to do? You know, is she going to file other charges? Is she going to pursue this? Because this is ridiculous.
GRACE: Well, let`s find out, Summer. I agree.
Lindsay Addison, have you been told this is not a crime?
ADDISON: I was told that it borderlines on child abuse. It`s more neglect and that.
GRACE: Well, there is actually a statute called neglect.
GRACE: I would call the police back. I would go straight to the district attorney or the solicitor to discover what the possibilities are.
And quickly to Bill in Indiana. Hi, Bill. Bill in Indiana? OK. No Bill.
Everybody tonight, as we go to break, I`m sending out a get-well wish across the airwaves to the bravest man I know.
Get well, Daddy.
(INAUDIBLE) moms in Boca Raton, Florida apparently start by a serial killer. Targeting moms with their children in pricey SUVs.
And tonight, APB, all points bulletin for special moms and dads. If you know a parent who`s an inspiration to others, get that camcorder. Go to CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on i-Report, and enter that deserving parent in the "Extraordinary Parent Contest."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADDISON: I did see Gavin laying on the sofa kicking like he was -- he could have fallen off and her just walk passed them for about six minutes. And I did -- I (INAUDIBLE) my rescue red lights and you know, get home as fast as I could. And it took all I could not to pick up the woman that way, although I probably couldn`t have done it.
I got as fast because (INAUDIBLE) a video camera.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Friends and family say Nancy Bochicchio and her daughter, Joey, were inseparable, hooked at the hip. But just after 3:00 p.m., those wonderful moments for a mother and her only child suddenly ceased.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOEY BOCHICCHIO-HAUSER, NANCY BOCHICCHIO`s DAUGHTER: Mom!
NANCY BOCHICCHIO, VICTIM: What? Oh, my god.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have an ATM card?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do you close to the ATM? Drive.
BOCHIOCCHIO: OK. But please don`t hurt her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy headed to her bank, possibly hoping to spot a familiar face and signal for help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A predator stalking upscale malls in Boca Raton.
Out to Rory O`Neill, reporter with Metro Networks. What`s the very latest?
RORY O`NEILL, REPORTER, METRO NETWORKS: Well, we do have some new information as far as a mug shot. Not a mug shot, but a drawing, an artist rendering of a possible suspect. This information coming from some of the testimony provided by people who may have been attacked and may be connected to this killer who has struck, as you mentioned, at least twice at the mall in Boca Raton.
GRACE: I want to unleash the lawyers right now, Darryl Cohen, Mickey Sherman, Lisa Pinto.
Out to you, Mickey. Apparently, a nearby police chief is asking for greater security at the malls and he`s not getting any help from the mall developer. Are we looking at a big, fat lawsuit?
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A hell of a lot of ill will and probably people staying away from shopping at that mall. I don`t understand that. I don`t understand the logic of that. I mean this is a time when the mall owner, all these shop owners, should be running to the police with all their security cameras, with all of their security people, with all of their tips, with all of the people who`ve caused problems in there in the past, as opposed to non-cooperation. It just makes no sense whatsoever.
GRACE: Well, Darryl Cohen, wouldn`t the mall argue there was an intervening criminal act that it`s not their fault there`s a stalker?
COHEN: Certainly, they would answer -- they would argue that, Nancy. But let`s fact it, look at the history of the number of crimes that have been committed at and around that malls, and that screams liability, liability, liability, and worse than that, it screams safety for this poor woman or poor women and their kids. So certainly they`ll make that argument. But is that argument going to fly?
The answer, in my view, is no. It`s not going to fly. They need more security, more people on the ground, more cameras where people know the cameras exist. Not just hidden.
COHEN: .but where you see them.
GRACE: Lisa Pinto?
PINTO: I think the mall has got a big problem. It`s interesting that they now have valet parking for mothers with young children because they finally figured out there`s a problem.
Let`s not forget there were four attacks before this woman was killed. There were two carjackings where the victims lived.
GRACE: I want to go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport."
Pat, there have been many attacks on women, making them use their ATM cards and so forth. Then suddenly a mother and a little 7-year-old child brutally murdered. Why did it escalate to murder?
BROWN: It`s possible, Nancy, that this man has no disregard -- regard for life anyway. And in the commission of the crime, maybe she ticked him off in some way. Maybe he thought she would rat him out, and so he decided this is not just worth having witnesses around (INAUDIBLE).
GRACE: Two lives gone.
Back to Rory O`Neill with Metro Networks.
Police chief Foster has contacted the owners of Coral Square Mall about off-duty officers, beefing up security. What happened?
O`NEILL: Well, they are adding some more officers. Actually, they`re putting a police substation now in the mall as part of a larger expansion. They`re also, as you mentioned, doing the shuttle service and offering free valet parking for mothers with their young children. So they are taking some steps to bolster things and now working more closely with police and being more vocal about their progress.
GRACE: Rory, what is the latest on catching this guy?
O`NEILLL: They have a pretty weak sketching. And that`s about it. The video surveillance cameras have brought little new information that can be used to track the person down. So there is not a whole lot to go on. They have a MySpace page as they try to get some input from the public, trying to track down this person who`s only described as an average-sized, possibly Hispanic male with a ponytail, maybe 18 to 25.
GRACE: And he keeps telling the victims how they should describe him differently to police. This is the composite that we have. Call Crime Stoppers 800-458-8477. A $350,000 reward.
Tonight, right now, I want to tell you about another killer. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONNIE ADDARIO, LUNG CANCER SURVIVOR AND ADVOCATE: I`m amazed that I`m here tonight. Why am I here tonight? I`m here because I`m a lung cancer survivor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First thought when I heard the diagnosis that I had lung cancer and I only had 10 months to live was -- first one was an expletive, but the second one was, oh, man, I have a lot to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing you have to do is keep me alive until August 2nd of -- 2003. That`s when my daughter was going to be married. He said, "Don`t worry. You`ll be around for quite a while." And it was quite a while. And here I am, still here.
GRACE: I`m talking about lung cancer. Lung cancer killing more women a year than breast cancer. Even women that have never smoked in their lives.
I want you to meet two very special guests tonight. Joining me, Bonnie Addario, a long cancer survivor. Also with us, Dr. Deborah Morosini, sister of Dana Reeve, a lung cancer advocate.
Ladies, thank you for being with us.
I want to go to Bonnie, a lung cancer survivor, Bonnie, at first, you were misdiagnosed. What happened?
ADDARIO: I had a pain shooting across my chest. And I guess it`s a bit -- misdiagnosis is a little bit excusable in that the doctors originally thought maybe there was a heart issue. And they never took a CT scan. They never looked further. Literally sent me out of the office, told me I was fine and not to worry.
GRACE: What would be the way to detect lung cancer, Bonnie?
ADDARIO: Right now, we`re hoping to soon get blood sampling and saliva sampling. But all we have in our arsenal at the moment is CT screening.
GRACE: There is a what? A CAT scan?
ADDARIO: CT scan, yes.
GRACE: And what would that involve, bonnie?
ADDARIO: It would involve about 15 seconds in a CT scanner. The resolution is so high they can detect lung cancer in seconds.
GRACE: Did you ever smoke, Bonnie?
ADDARIO: You know, Nancy, I did. But I hate to even talk about that anymore because.
ADDARIO: .it gives the non-smokers a false sense of security.
GRACE: To Deborah Morosini.
DEBORAH MOROSINI, DANA REEVE`S SISTER, LUNG CANCER ADVOCATE: Yes.
GRACE: Tell me the stats on lung cancer to your knowledge.
MOROSINI: Currently, lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death worldwide. It accounts for one-third of all cancer deaths. It kills more people than prostate cancer, breast cancer, colon cancer and liver cancer combined. And it has a survival rate that has not changed in decades.
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to Chuck in New Hampshire. Hi, Chuck.
CHUCK, FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CHUCK: I wanted to let you know I also had lung cancer and it was diagnosed only by mistake. They found a kidney stone. I had a kidney stone, and when they did the CAT scan for the kidney stone, they saw a spot on my lower right lung and they removed my lower right lung. I didn`t go for chemotherapy, though.
GRACE: So long story short, another lung cancer survivor who was diagnosed by accident.
With me tonight, Bonnie Addario, and along with her, Dr. Deborah Morosini.
Deborah, tell me about your sister, a non-smoker.
MOROSINI: Yes. But when Dana was diagnosed with lung cancer, I`m an M.D. and I`m a pathologist. And at the same time I still thought this was an anomaly to see someone who is so young and so healthy and no known risk factors diagnosed with lung cancer, and someone who`d succumbed quite quickly to it.
I`ve now come in the year or so since Dana`s died and as I`ve worked as a lung cancer advocate to see that Dana`s story is repeated by the thousands, and that there are many young women, non-smokers, and her picture is more typical than one would ever imagine. It`s frightening.
GRACE: Bonnie, your foundation, Lungcancerfoundation.org is the Web site, does what?
ADDARIO: Our goal is to change the 15 percent five-year survival rate for cancer. And that`s 450 people that die every day. To change that number. To get it up as high as prostate and breast. Do what those foundations did for breast cancer and prostate cancer.
GRACE: I want to thank Bonnie Addario and Dr. Deborah Morosini, lung cancer advocates. We have their Web site on our Web site. Please go to it. The Lungcancerfoundation.org.
Let`s remember Army Sergeant Corey Spates, 21, LaGrange, Georgia, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. Awarded the National Defense Service medal, army service (INAUDIBLE) and army commendation medal. Loved football, swimming, the Bulldogs, golf, fishing, picking wild flowers. He had dreams of a future with his wife, a newlywed. He leaves behind parents Joy and Steve, three brothers, grandma Jolly, widow Celeste.
Corey Spates, American hero.
A special happy birthday to a special first baby in our family, Sam who`s now 22. OK, you`ve had your cake now. Go home and study. Happy birthday, Sammy.
Good night, everyone. See you tomorrow night. Good night, friends.