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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Obama Downplays Defeat; Clinton Celebrates Victories; U.S. Government at Odds Over Mortgage Crisis; High Cost of Illegal Immigration Falls on Border States
Aired March 05, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Tonight, Senators Clinton and Obama preparing for what will be a long campaign, apparently, and a campaign as well against Senator McCain. Senator Clinton suggesting she's willing to consider a Clinton/Obama ticket or perhaps -- it's not clear, an Obama/Clinton ticket.
Senator Obama saying he'll sharpen his attacks, thank you very much, against Senator Clinton. We'll have all of that, all the day's news and much more, straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, March 5. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today declared that voters, not party officials, should decide the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination.
Senator Clinton today said her campaign has turned a corner after her primary victories last night. Senator Obama said he will step up his criticism of Senator Clinton and raise new questions about her experience.
Meanwhile, President Bush today endorsed the presumptive Republican nominee, Senator John McCain. The president saying McCain has incredible courage and perseverance.
We have extensive coverage of this extraordinary campaign, beginning with Jessica Yellin in San Antonio, Texas -- Jessica?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Senator Obama's top strategist told me today that he believes Senator Clinton won primaries in Ohio and Texas yesterday by turning her campaign into a search and destroy mission, and now the Obama campaign is ready to fight back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN (voice-over): This much is clear...
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For everyone...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) H. CLINTON: ... who works hard and never gives up, this one is for you.
(APPLAUSE)
YELLIN: The race is far from over.
H. CLINTON: We're going forward here. This is a close, close contest.
YELLIN: Senator Obama is portraying yesterday's results as a wash.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We end up emerging with essentially the same delegate count that we had going in.
YELLIN: And a reflection of a Clinton campaign grown desperate.
OBAMA: There's no doubt that she went very negative over the last week. She's yet to cite what experience, in fact, prepares her for that 3:00 a.m. phone call.
YELLIN: Today, Obama is taking a page from the Clinton playbook, prodding the media to turn its lens back on his opponent.
OBAMA: Many of you in the press corps have been persuaded that you have been too hard on her and too soft on me, and so, you know, complaining about the rest apparently worked.
YELLIN: His senior adviser saying "the vetting of Hillary Clinton has yet to begin" and pointing out she has not released her 2006 tax returns. The donor list to the Clinton library, or her papers as first lady, though those years in the White House are the basis of her argument about experience.
Now both campaigns are primed for a long fight. So far, Obama has won 28 primaries and caucuses, Clinton 16, including most of the biggest states. Next up, Wyoming and Mississippi. Then it's on to Pennsylvania, which could end the race, or maybe not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: And the Clinton campaign's communications director is hitting back against these charges from the Obama campaign, saying, look, Senator Clinton has made her tax returns public for years, and her most recent returns will be released after April 15, and they're calling on Barack Obama to release all information he has about his contacts with now-indicted former backer Tony Rezko. The back-and- forth is on, Lou.
DOBBS: The back-and-forth is on and the elevated campaign, looks like they're recurring to an even higher standard, doesn't it, Jessica?
YELLIN: It really does. It is getting increasingly personal, and there is no sign that it is going to back down from that any time soon.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Jessica. Jessica Yellin reporting.
Senator Clinton today says her victories prove a rising number of voters believe she would be the best commander in chief. Exit polls indicate that voters were swayed by that argument in yesterday's primaries. Many voters said they believe that Senator Clinton is tougher than Senator Obama.
Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): January, New Hampshire. February, Super Tuesday, March, Texas and Ohio. Hillary Clinton, the comeback of the month kid. How did she do it? A two-part strategy. First, she expanded her populist base. Barack Obama inspires...
OBAMA: Can we send a message to all those weary travelers beyond our shores who long to be free from fear and want, that the United States of America is and always will be the last best hope on earth. We say, we hope, we believe, yes, we can.
SCHNEIDER: Hillary Clinton delivers.
H. CLINTON: The question is not whether we can fulfill those dreams, it's whether we will, and here's our answer -- yes, we will!
SCHNEIDER: In Ohio and Texas, Clinton expanded her support from constituencies that need government to deliver for them. Seniors voted 57 percent for Clinton on Super Tuesday last month. This Tuesday her senior support grew to 67 percent in Texas and 72 percent in economically hard-pressed Ohio.
Among non-college-educated blue-collar voters, her support rose from 58 to 62 and 65 percent. Her support grew among rural voters as well. Voters worried about their financial situation gave Clinton double-digit margins over Obama. No small group, 68 percent of voters in Texas and 77 percent in Ohio had financial problems.
She also had late momentum. Voters who decided in the last few days of the campaign voted about 60 percent for Clinton. Among voters who made up their minds earlier, the race was much closer. What did she do in the last few days? She got tough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's 3:00 a.m., and your children are safe and asleep. Who do you want answering the phone?
SCHNEIDER: Democrats in Texas and Ohio said Clinton was more qualified than Obama to be commander in chief, and that may have boosted her support from one of the toughest constituencies of all, white men.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SCHNEIDER: Democratic voters in Texas and Ohio were more likely to say Clinton has a clear plan to solve the country's problems than Obama. But there were also more likely to say Obama inspires them about the future of the country. She delivers, he inspires. Sounds kind of like a ticket, Lou.
DOBBS: It may sound like a ticket, but it also sounds like a very difficult ticket to put together, right?
SCHNEIDER: Yes, exactly. It will not be easy. It's the Democrats' dream. Who's going to do it? Nobody knows.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
Over on the Republican side, President Bush today declared Senator McCain has all of the qualities needed to be president. President Bush said McCain, the presumptive nominee, can handle the tough decisions. For his part, Senator McCain said he would be glad to have President Bush on the campaign trail.
Dana Bash has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An early president was left to awkwardly shuffle his heels in front of the cameras, an anxious wait for John McCain. Then a formal White House greeting meant to show his respect and the changing of the GOP guard. After a private lunch, the one-time bitter rivals appeared side by side for a political blessing.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: John showed incredible courage, strength of character and perseverance in order to get to this moment, and that's exactly what we need in a president, somebody that can handle the tough decisions.
BASH: Unprompted, the new, presumptive Republican nominee answered a key question of his candidacy -- would he enlist the unpopular president to help? Yes.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I intend to have as much possible campaigning events and together as in keeping with the president's heavy schedule. And I look forward to that opportunity.
BASH: McCain plans to use the president to raise money for what is still a cash-strapped campaign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of the United States.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BASH: His advisers hope Mr. Bush, still popular with the GOP faithful, helps rally a dispirited base around a nominee many do not trust. But Mr. Bush's approval rating with independent voters McCain is courting is only 26 percent, and Democrats promise to use this embrace against McCain.
BUSH: It's not about me. You know, I've done my bit.
BASH: The president may not like it, but he gets it -- there will be times McCain will keep his distance.
BUSH: If by showing up, endorsing him helps him, or if I'm against him and it helps him, either way, I want him to win. I'm going to be in Crawford with my feet up. He's going to be sitting in there behind that desk making the decisions on war and peace, and I'm thankful our party has nominated somebody plenty capable of making those decisions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: McCain advisers say they hope to get the president out raising money as soon as possible, but those same advisers also tell CNN not to expect the presumptive nominee to appear much side by side with Mr. Bush -- Lou?
DOBBS: Dana, looked like and sounded as though President Bush was looking forward to putting those feet up out there in Crawford, Texas.
BASH: I think he is looking forward to putting those feet up, but you know what really struck me about being in the Rose Garden today, Lou, is how much President Bush was clearly so eager to get out there and be a part of this political campaign.
He has clearly been chomping at the bit to be involved and he was really animated in a way that we haven't seen him in quite some time. This is the kind of thing that he was eager to get involved in. We'll see how much it really pans out for him with John McCain after this endorsement today.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much, Dana Bash.
Former Governor Mike Huckabee living up to his promise to quit the Republican race as soon as Senator McCain had clinched the nomination. Huckabee had told his supporters and in fact me that he would wrap it up after 1,191 and he kept the faith as he put it, by standing up for his principles throughout the campaign. Huckabee saying he will support McCain and will do everything possible to unite the Republican Party and this nation.
Coming up here next, rising concerns about the dependence of our financial institutions on foreign governments for their solvency.
Christine Romans will have our report -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it's one of America's largest banks and a household name, but Citigroup has lost billions on mortgage investments gone bad, has had to raise emergency cash from wealthy investors and foreign governments. Now from Wall Street to Washington, concerns, Lou, that Citi's troubles isn't over.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Christine, looking forward to the report.
Also local communities along our southern border with Mexico are facing a financial crisis because of our illegal immigration crisis. We'll have that report and we'll be examining the influence of religion in this presidential campaign and our society. Tony Perkins, Bishop Harry Jackson, authors of the important new book on faith and politics are among my guests here next.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Many of the nation's largest banks are simply struggling to recover from billions of dollars in losses because of our mortgage crisis. Citigroup is tapping into wealthy, foreign investors and Middle Eastern governments for massive cash infusions.
It's in that much trouble. But a divide government fund manager this week said Citigroup still needs a lot more cash and may have a lot of trouble finding it.
Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): Citigroup is an American financial powerhouse and a household name.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or Citibank account --
ROMANS: It's lost billions from bad bets on mortgages, fired its CEO, and cut its dividends.
(RINGING)
ROMANS: The fear on Wall Street...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come to order --
ROMANS: ... and in Washington hearing rooms, it's just the beginning.
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: Insured depositories and other financial institutions could lose an additional 300 to $400 billion due to exposure to mortgages.
ROMANS: Big U.S. banks have already written off some $160 billion in bad investments. The investment arms of some foreign governments have come to the rescue with emergency cash infusions for MorganStanley, Merrill Lynch and Bear Stearns. Citi has raised the most, $14.5 billion in January from foreign governments and wealthy investors.
In November it sold a 4.9 percent stake to the Abu Dhabi investment authority for $7.5 billion. This week a Dubai government fund manager said Citigroup will need a lot more and may have trouble getting it. A sentiment reflected on Wall Street. The stock's price cut in half in a year.
And now trades at its lowest price in 10 years. The bank's new CEO, Vikram Pandit in a company memo today described what he calls "a challenging economic environment," but insisted Citi is financially sound, well capitalized and focused on the strength of our balance sheet."
The company does have enough money to meet federal requirements. Banking regulators won't comment on Citigroup's problems. Despite several years of record bank earnings, bank failures are on the rise. The FDIC has 76 institutions on its problem list, 50 percent more than a year ago, but compare that with more than 1,400 on the list in 1991, at the height of the savings and loan scandal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There probably will be some bank failures.
ROMANS: That was the Fed chief last week warning some smaller banks will fail, but he doesn't expect,"serious problems in the overall banking system."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Now, as for Citigroup and whether it needs more money, a source close to the company says Citigroup is not shopping around right now for more sovereign wealth investments. Essentially, Lou, downplaying those bearish, negative comments from Dubai earlier this week.
DOBBS: They weren't just bearish and negative. I mean Christine those were downright scary comments.
ROMANS: Right.
DOBBS: And Citigroup had no public response to.
ROMANS: Well, they had this long memo today from Vikram Pandit (ph), who now runs the company, who said we are well capitalized. And showing you know according to FDIC and regulatory standards, they do have enough capital right now, but the question is what is to come, and is there enough to cover what's to come.
DOBBS: And you know, the CEO of Citigroup, maybe somebody could help him in putting forward these things. In the history of financial communications, to refer to what we're witnessing right now is a challenging financial environment is frankly, well, it calls into question other things he says, because this is more than challenging.
This is an extraordinarily difficult environment, and we're looking at a very significant downturn in this economy. Are there bank analysts and those who are following the banking sector in this country -- what are they saying about Citi?
ROMANS: They're saying that the big concern is we don't know how much more there is for these big banks. It's what we don't know that is really the concern, and the stock has been cut in half, as we said, over the past year, Lou, and it doesn't look like investors at this point are very optimistic about what's coming up in quarters ahead.
DOBBS: All right. Christine, thank you very much, Christine Romans.
Well, as we've been reporting on this broadcast now for months, the Bush administration has offered only partial solutions to this country's mortgage crisis. Well, let's rephrase that. This administration, in fact, has offered a few relatively weak and uninspiring possibilities for helping out in this crisis, but Fed Chairman, Ben Bernanke, is calling for far more aggressive action, putting him squarely in opposition with this administration.
Bernanke says foreclosures will continue to rise in this country and interest rate cuts alone, certainly, will not solve this crisis. Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke said more can and should be done for home owners facing foreclosures.
BEN BERNANKE, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: Delinquencies and foreclosures likely will continue to rise for a while longer for several reasons. This situation calls for a vigorous response.
PILGRIM: In a marked departure from the piece meal plans for helping homeowners put forward by the Bush administration, Bernanke came up with a hard-headed solution that the industry applauds.
JOHN TAYLOR, NAT'L COMM. REINVESTMENT COAL.: It was a very good thing that the chairman spoke to this issue, and I think his comments were well received by a lot of people. I think he understands the extent of the problem, the foreclosure problem and what needs to happen.
PILGRIM: Bernanke is calling on banks to forgive a portion of the principal of the loan so the value of the loan matches the current market value of the house. Fed Chief Ben Bernanke says this action is necessary because the worst is yet to come -- 1.5 million homes, 40 percent of sub primes are scheduled to reset at higher rates this year. Back in December, the Bush administration thought it had solved the problem.
BUSH: I'm pleased to announce that our efforts have yielded a promising new source of relief for American homeowners.
PILGRIM: But only a fraction of homeowners qualified for that plan and Secretary Paulson was formed to admit the plan was flawed.
HENRY PAULSON, TREASURY SECRETARY: This plan is not a silver bullet, OK? You're not going to be able to solve every conceivable issue. PILGRIM: And while the Bush administration first advocated a voluntary program for banks, then called for a temporary interest rate freeze for some borrowers, Bernanke called these measures temporary palliatives.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well an estimated 15 million homes in the country are now worth less than their mortgages and Bernanke says that his solution is cheaper in the long run. It will keep people in their homes and stop another wave of foreclosures from rippling through the economy -- Lou.
DOBBS: Henry Paulson apparently expected people not to notice a slight division between this administration on economic policy and the Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, and particularly in this credit crisis?
PILGRIM: Well, I mean, if you want to go back to what Paulson said a year ago, he said this crisis was over and the housing market was near bottom. So I think there is a considerable divide in their perception of this issue.
DOBBS: This kind of leadership -- Henry Paulson, this president have much to answer for in terms of economic policy. Well, particularly, they peddle the absolute blather and pebbling (ph) that things are just ducky. It is the essence of irresponsibility and incompetence, and it's being perpetuated. Thank you very much, George W. Bush. Thank you, Kitty Pilgrim.
Still ahead, the high cost of illegal immigration. Why local law enforcement is shouldering an unfair burden and local communities are simply stuck for the price.
The federal government is turning its back on American workers. Major defense contract has been outsourced if the United States Air Force and this president and this Congress have their way. What's being done? We'll have a special report.
Stay with us. We'll continue in one moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The cost of illegal immigration is hitting most states hard, but especially those on our southern border with Mexico. Now the Bush administration wants to eliminate a program that actually reimburses local governments for the cost of incarcerating criminal, illegal aliens. Counties along the southern border say those costs are simply unfair.
And as Casey Wian now reports, those counties, well, they want their money back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From 1999 through 2006, the 24 counties along the U.S. border with Mexico spent more than $1.2 billion arresting, jailing, and prosecuting illegal aliens, according to a new study by the University of Arizona and San Diego State.
GREG COX, SUPERVISOR, SAN DIEGO COUNTY, CALIF.: The federal government has not done a good job in enforcing our immigration laws, and it's unfair for county government to have to carry the burden of the federal government.
WIAN: The study was commissioned by a non-profit organization of border county officials who support reimbursement. A 1994 federal law authorizes the Justice Department to reimburse state and local governments for the cost of prosecuting crimes by illegal aliens. According to the report, border counties have received just over four cents on the dollar. Many say they're in fiscal distress as a result.
MANNY RUIZ, SUPERVISOR, SANTA CRUZ COUNTY, ARIZ.: We're not here to push for immigration reform. We're not here to push for fences. But we're here to make people aware of what the local communities are faced with yearly with these costs.
WIAN: It's an annual ritual -- President Bush submits a budget eliminating the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program, or SCAAP. Congress then restores some funding. In 2006, border counties received just 2.5 cents for every $1 spent on criminal illegal aliens.
VICTOR CARILLO, SUPERVISOR, IMPERIAL COUNTY, CALIF.: The irony of all this is that the current president is a former border governor, and yet, every year we have to come back and lobby and argue and give reason why this money should be funded for the border counties.
WIAN: This year President Bush again proposed scrapping SCAAP because the administration believes that the federal government should focus on reducing illegal immigration, rather than on reimbursing state's localities for the cost of incarcerating illegal aliens who have committed state and local crimes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Counties along the border are among the poorest in the nation, so it's particularly damaging when they must cut services to citizens and legal residents to pay for the crimes of illegal aliens -- Lou?
DOBBS: That little line there, talking about because this administration believes they shouldn't be paying for the incarceration of those charged by state and local governments, rather, they should be focusing on stopping illegal immigration -- that is a piece of Orwellian (ph) nonsense that is really of a more elevated intellectual nature than I'm used to expecting from this administration.
WIAN: It's really amazing, Lou. I mean they talk about this program -- you know one of the complaints that they have is it hasn't demonstrated any results. Well, the reason it hasn't demonstrated any results is because the federal government hasn't been able to stop illegal aliens from coming into these border counties and committing crimes. It's absolutely outrageous.
And what's scarier about this, Lou, is these numbers were through 2006. It doesn't take into account the rapid escalation of drug violence that spread across the border from Mexico since then. So the situation's actually much worse than this report portrays.
DOBBS: Well, it is a mess and a crisis in this country. And the fact that people of good faith can't come together here and come up with a solution, and the fact that this administration doesn't have the principle, the concern, the care for the American people to secure these borders and these ports is, to me, one of the most unconscionable aspects of what will be, I think for this president, a devastating legacy. Casey, thank you very much, Casey Wian.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
J.B. in California wrote in to say: "I want to thank you for not pushing Clinton to drop out of the race. We live in a democracy, right. And after dealing with Bush, the American people have the right to have a long interview process with the possible candidates." I couldn't agree with you more.
And Lou in Oregon said: "Is it just me or are these elections going on forever? My marriage didn't last this long." Well, we're sorry about both -- that is, the elections and campaigns and your marriage.
Dian in Florida said, "Lou, it has finally occurred to me what the virtual camera fence along the border is for. It is to take their pictures so that their drivers' licenses will be ready for them when they reach their destination. I fear for our future, but keep up the good fight." It's guaranteed.
Demetrios in New York: "Thank you, Lou, for your no holds barred approach to politics. I'm 22-years-old and this will be my first time voting, and I'm going Independent."
You're going the right direction. Thank you.
And each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit". We'd love to hear from you more, first on my new radio show, "The Lou Dobbs Show," a new, three-hour radio show each afternoon, kicking off this week. Go to loudobbs.com to find local listing for the "Lou Dobbs Show" on the radio.
Coming up next here, seething anger after the Pentagon gives Europe a huge defense contract. This makes me so mad, this, my blood is boiling about. The leader of the Aerospace Workers Union, Tom Buffenbarger joins me to talk about what his union and others are going to do about this unconscionable act.
Also, the role of religion in this presidential campaign, the authors of an important new book on faith and policy join me.
And Senator Clinton says she has momentum. Three of the smartest political analysts will be here to assess is that so and if so, how much.
We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Some lawmakers are more than a little angry on Capitol Hill, and they're letting the Air Force know exactly how they feel about the outsourcing of its tanker aircraft contract, some $35 billion worth. The Air Force giving European consortium EADS, those folks who make the Airbus, a $40 billion deal. That leaves American aircraft-maker Boeing and its workers, well, out of luck.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Air Force decision to pass up Boeing and give its new aerial refueling tanker contract to European EADS with partner Northrop Grumman sparked anger and outrage in Congress.
SEN. PATTYMURRAY (D), WASHINGTON: With this contract, we can say bon voyage to 44,000 United States jobs and bon voyage to $40 billion of our taxpayer money.
TUCKER: In the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, the Air Force tried to defend the decision that was indefensible in the opinion of many on the committee.
REP. TODD TIAHRT (R), KANSAS: The American public is rightfully outraged by this decision. I am outraged by this decision. It's outsourcing our national security.
REP. NORM DICKS (D), WASHINGTON: This is a crown jewel of American technology. We are now giving away to the Europeans one of the most significant things we as a country can do, and that is build these aerial tankers.
TUCKER: The point was made that the Airbus-built refueling tanker would only be a symbol in Alabama after the tail, fuselage, and wings were all built in Europe by a company which is subsidized by European governments.
The Air Force, by law, couldn't answer all of the questions because the bidders haven't been fully briefed, further aggravating committee members, but they did have an answer to the concerns about the contract going to a foreign company.
SUE PAYTON, ASST. SECY. OF AIR FORCE: I view Northrop Grumman as an American company. I view General Electric, who has jobs from this in Ohio and North Carolina, as an American company.
TUCKER: General Electric will build the engines for the tanker. Not a good enough answer, from one of the congressman who has posted a petition on his Web site against the deal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, the committee members were also not shy to note that this contract rewards countries who did not support us in Iraq. Those committee members also wondered why the Air Force gave a contract to the parent company of Airbus when we as a country are pursuing a trade complaint against Airbus, arguing that subsidies given to them by the European countries create an unfair advantage for Airbus -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, I've got to say, the United States Air Force. chief of staff, all of those folks at the Joint Chiefs of Staff right on down, what in the world are you people thinking about? I mean, this is idiotic! How can they even begin to justify this? And that assistant secretary o there, Payton?
TUCKER: In charge of acquisitions, yes.
DOBBS: Well, she doesn't need to be in charge of acquisitions, she needs to be in charge of just silly rhetoric. To sit there and talk about -- (INAUDIBLE) General Electric, an American company, whatever. About 2,000 jobs involved in this, is that correct, in Alabama?
TUCKER: That is correct.
DOBBS: And about 50,000 jobs would be supported, had this thing gone to Boeing.
TUCKER: Right.
DOBBS: And meanwhile, we would be absolutely self-reliant on American technology for the building, the manufacture of these tankers.
TUCKER: Correct.
DOBBS: If it went to Boeing.
TUCKER: That's it.
DOBBS: OK, that's it. The Air Force is being run by idiots, and they've got to get to the bottom of this. It's absolutely unconscionable! Why in the world are Norm Dicks and Tiahrt, who -- bless them for taking this on, how can they put up with somebody standing in front of their committee like this?
TUCKER: They were very frustrated at the committee hearing today, Lou. And they kept getting promises of a close-door hearing that would explain it.
DOBBS: You know what, there is an expression, they should be given back to the Air Force. I mean, unbelievable. Bill, thank you very much. Bill Tucker.
The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, they are absolutely outraged over this idiotic Air Force tanker deal. The union represents almost 40,000 Boeing employees. Tom Buffenbarger is the international president of the union and he joins us tonight.
Tom, thanks for being here. I know that you have been working hard with your union, your membership. I assume you've been lobbying the Air Force, the Department of Defense. How in the world could something like this happen?
TOM BUFFENBARGER, INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT, MACHINISTS & AEROSPACE WORKERS ASSN.: Lou, I'm as baffled as anybody that we could allow a procurement officer in the Air Force to give away $40 billion of U.S. taxpayer money to a company headquartered in Toulouse, France, a nation that's an erstwhile ally, at best.
I think many of us remember we made fun of freedom fries just a few years ago when we entered the conflict in Iraq. How we could turn over the crown jewel of support for our nation's Air Force to foreign manufacturer is beyond me. And everybody in America needs to be outraged about this.
DOBBS: Well, I couldn't agree with you more, and yet, across America right now people who are sort of breathing in and breathing out over this issue, going, well, what's the big deal? You know, the worker just got screwed again, this time by the government, to whom they're paying taxes, to one of its most illustrious service branches, represented by that assistant secretary with the -- frankly, I find the arrogance to respond to a United States congressional hearing in the way in which she did, asking whether or not General Electric is an American company, United Technologies.
What in the world is going on that this could happen?
BUFFENBARGER: What's going on, Lou, is the transfer of American technology, and with it, the American jobs to foreign nations under the guise of -- you know, this is really, Lou, an economic deal. It's the military industrial complex at its worst. Remember President Eisenhower...
DOBBS: Oh, sure.
BUFFENBARGER: ... warned us about this, and now we're seeing it.
DOBBS: Well, he warned us, but you know, Tom, I've got to be honest, we've had some warnings about unions. We've had warnings about lots of things, but what's going on flat in our face is we are being told by this administration, this government, this Congress, that the American worker can go to hell. What in the world is it going to take to say, you know, work in this country should be respected, it should be valued, and that people who work day in and day out and raise families, by God, are going to be the primary focus of what we do in public policy?
BUFFENBARGER: Lou, I couldn't agree more. Jobs are part of our national defense. Jobs are part of our economy and our future. All good things in America begin with a good job. And if we start giving and continue to giving those good jobs away to the rest of the world without taking any consideration what it's doing to hollow out our great country, something is wrong, and there's going to have to be a revolution, Lou.
Whether it's a revolution at the ballot box or where, I don't know, but the people of America have to start contacting their elected leaders and screaming about this. This is wrong, to steal the jobs, the hopes, and the futures of American workers, and give it away to nations around the world.
We built this country, Lou. We built it and we're proud of it and we love it. And what's happening at the hands of our government and the hands of the corporations is just plain wrong. And you know, we're going to fight. We're going to take this on tooth and nail and get this decision turned around.
And we're going to see that America gets what it deserves in the form of economic justice and fairness for American workers.
DOBBS: Well, that would be a refreshing about-face over the course of the past quarter century in this country. Tom Buffenbarger, thank you for being here. I want to say one other thing.
Congressman Tiahrt is a Republican from Kansas, and he has put up on his Web site all of the information, the petition for protesting, and I want to, if you will, I believe you can go -- well, I'm going to just say it. We will have up on our Web site within a matter of moments his Web site, that petition, where you can go and be directed and to support that petition and the American worker.
And by the way, national security -- because if there is anyone watching this broadcast here that thinks that this country, this nation should not be self-reliant in terms of the manufacture of its military aircraft, its weapons system, its materiel, you know, I would be astonished. So, please go there, please support the congressman's petition, because you're, in my judgment at least, supporting this country and its proper values. And we have it up there in front of us now. Tom Buffenbarger, house.gov -- Congressman Tiahrt.
It's good that we've got this is under way. It's good that you're going to pursue your direction and I know you will do so powerfully. Tom, thanks for being here.
BUFFENBARGER: Thank you, it has been a pleasure.
DOBBS: Tom Buffenbarger, who is the president of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.
Oh, man, he has got to have a cast-iron lining in his stomach to put up with this, working for those folks in his union. I guess we all do, to put up with what this country is trying to pull off against -- I mean, they're really attacking the American dream as well as national security.
Coming up next, the role of religion in this presidential election, the role of religion in our society. We'll be talking with two of the nation's most respected and influential religious leaders. Senators Clinton and Obama preparing for their next battle. Will the governor of Pennsylvania be able to deliver? Three of the best political analysts in the country join me here next. Stay with us, we're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Two highly regarded religious leaders from opposite sides of the political spectrum in fact, Tony Perkins, he is the president of the Family Research Council.
And it's good to have you with us.
TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Bishop Harry Jackson, chairman of the High Impact Leadership Coalition. Good to have you with us.
BISHOP HARRY JACKSON, HIGH IMPACT LEADERSHIP COALITION: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, you guys have written a terrific book, a very important, new book. It's called "Personal Faith Public Policy," and both obviously here to talk about the book, the role of religion in this presidential campaign, and indeed, our society. Let me talk first with you, Bishop. The idea of coming together here. Would you describe yourselves as evangelicals?
JACKSON: Absolutely. We are evangelicals who believe in a born- again experience. But we also believe that the Bible is God's final authority over what we should think and how we should act in the world today.
DOBBS: And so you're devout, right-wing Republicans, then, as a result. Is that correct?
JACKSON: That is not correct.
DOBBS: Whoops!
JACKSON: One of the things that we had to say really in opening chapters of the book is that perhaps the evangelical movement has erred in being too closely associated with one party. We need to be a conscience to the entire nation based on what the scriptures say, and we have to be advocates of a position that would honor and elevate the scriptures and empower people.
DOBBS: Well, Tony, this book, if I may, I just want to share this. I think this is one of the most interesting covers, and I'm going to say, I'm very serious about this, "Seven urgent issues that we as people of faith must come together and solve. Focusing on the value of life, immigration, poverty, injustice, racial reconciliation, religious liberties, rebuilding the family" -- rebuilding the family! Oh, we know what that's about. We've got to be against gay marriage because that threatens heterosexual families. You know, all of the pressures against the family in this country.
PERKINS: We take it a step further. And this is not a prescription just for politicians. This is to prod the people in the pews to be a part of solving some of the most pressing issues facing our nation, and it's personal responsibility. And we start -- for instance, let's take the issue of poverty.
We take on that issue here because we believe it's a real issue in our society and it should be addressed, but it begins as individuals in working. And I don't think -- and Bishop agrees that socially conservative Christians have not done a good enough job in letting people know that we actually care about those issues and we're doing something about them.
JACKSON: It's a positive look. And you mention being anti-gay marriage and that kind of thing...
DOBBS: Oh, I was being facetious.
JACKSON: OK.
DOBBS: Talking about so many people in this country right now think of the right-wing evangelical as focusing the greatest threat to heterosexual marriage in this country is gay marriage, and as I've said many times on this broadcast, I can't understand the physics of that one. And the reality is, the family is so precious to our society.
PERKINS: That's it.
DOBBS: And I'm delighted that you're focusing on it.
PERKINS: And that takes it back to the personal responsibility, down to the very level of people's individual marriages and what fathers should be doing for their children. And Harry and I come from very different backgrounds, and so what this -- what Harry described in the beginning is that what we do is we use -- as Christians, we believe the scripture is actually unifying.
It's not divisive, it is not dividing, but it unifies us and it brings us together where we put aside our personal preferences and we come to what we believe are some policy solutions, personal solutions for some of the most pressing issues in our nation.
DOBBS: The presidential campaign, how's it playing out for you? God and politics here as we wrap up.
JACKSON: Well, I think that both sides need a message that they can deliver to the people of faith. Right now, a 60 million-person voter bloc may decide who becomes the next president. Are they hearing things that would encourage them? What do you think, Tony?
PERKINS: I think it's very important that the political establishment, the candidates know that there are people of faith out there that are motivated not by party establishments and party affiliations, but rather, by the commitment to the issues and the values, and we're seeing that increasingly among socially conservative Republican-leaning are moving away from their allegiance to the party.
And unless the candidates reach out and assure them that they care about those issues, they're not going to have that support.
DOBBS: You're not saying evangelicals are becoming independents, are you?
PERKINS: They're moving closer to being those Lou Dobbs independents.
DOBBS: I think -- you know, I may not be the most religious fellow in the country, but I can to that say hallelujah. And I can say also that this book -- and let me borrow that book one more time. Because when I say this, you know, this book is written in such a way as whether you're evangelical or you're a single mother trying to deal with life's challenges -- and that's putting it so gently for what the brutal force that is striking so many young people trying to get through this, it's a very important book.
I can't recommend it too highly. "Personal Faith Public Policy," Harry R. Jackson Jr., Tony Perkins, two great Americans, two great soldiers in the war for truth and a little help for folks. It's kind of nice. And to step away from ideology and partisan politics. You gentlemen have certainly made me happy. I appreciate your being with us.
PERKINS: Thanks, Lou, good to be with you.
JACKSON: Thank you.
DOBBS: Well, up next here, President Bush backing Senator McCain. Will that help or will it hurt?
And senators Obama and Clinton are -- well, they're joining forces in the race for the White House -- maybe. I'll be talking about that with three of the brightest political minds in the country. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Democratic members of the Michigan and Florida congressional delegations right now are meeting on Capitol Hill. And according to a source, that meeting is to "thrash out" ideas that would resolve the dispute over the seating of their party's delegates at the Democratic Convention this summer. Wow.
Joining me now, CNN contributor, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT contributor Michael Goodwin, Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist, New York Daily News; and CNN contributor, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT contributor and syndicated columnist Miguel Perez; and Mark Halperin, senior political analyst at TIME magazine, co-author of "The Way to Win: Taking the White House in 2008." It was a must-read for every one of these candidates, and obviously the best students among them are Senator McCain, Senator Obama and Senator Clinton.
Good to have you here. This is it for the Obama momentum, has she successfully derailed the Obama express?
MARK HALPERIN, TIME MAGAZINE: She stayed alive, but she still has a lot of barriers and obstacles. First of all, he's still ahead in delegates. It's going to be impossible for her to catch up in the elected delegates. She can only win with the superdelegates, and since her big win yesterday, three superdelegates publicly declared all for Obama.
So I think she can stay alive for at least through Pennsylvania, but she needs to start winning those superdelegates. It's her only way to win the nomination.
DOBBS: If she were to win Pennsylvania, what happens?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, of course, the margin would matter, how many delegates she really netted out of it, but your report on Florida and Michigan, I mean, that has got to be music to her ears, too, because...
DOBBS: You'd better believe it.
GOODWIN: ... that's a load of delegates that she would net. However it happens, she does -- those are states she won. If they run them again, she would have a good chance, presumably. So that's important for that delegate pile to be put back into play.
DOBBS: Well, Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Miguel, has been screaming like a banshee about his preference that they resolve this in the primaries, suggesting not too artfully or subtly that the superdelegates move to Senator Obama and that she retire from the field. He has got to be wondering what in the world is going on on Capitol Hill right now. What do you think?
MIGUEL PEREZ, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, if they do thrash this out...
DOBBS: I love that expression.
PEREZ: Yes, I do, too. And if they find a way to, you know, do this fairly, then OK. But how do you do this fairly, when even if you do an election again in Florida, with Hillary now gaining momentum, it would be unfair to Obama even to do an election now, when it should have happened way back then, so.
DOBBS: The Democratic Party disenfranchising the voters in their party in two states, Michigan and Florida, after all of the complaints about 2000. That is not something they want to keep hearing through a general election campaign. And this is a Dean statement today on Florida and Michigan, saying: "We're glad to hear that the governors of Michigan and Florida are now willing to lend their way to help resolve the issue." There's a lot of movement here.
HALPERIN: There may be some movement, but look, you know, disenfranchisement is one thing, but this should not have come as a surprise to the Democrats and the legislators in Florida and in Michigan. They were told, if you move your primaries, you're going to lose your delegates.
DOBBS: Well, you know, I've got to say -- and I'm not speaking in any way for the governors in the state, for any of the leaders of the Democratic Party in any of those states, I've got to say if an imperious snip like Howard Dean delivered such an edict, I would laugh in his face.
HALPERIN: Well, but they made the decision.
DOBBS: That's imperious. It's un-American!
HALPERIN: It's unfair to change the rules in the middle of the game.
DOBBS: Unfair is disenfranchising the voters in the two most populous states in this country.
HALPERIN: They should have complained at the time the rules were being changed.
DOBBS: How -- what's (INAUDIBLE)?
GOODWIN: Well, presumably...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: And by the way, if we follow that division, Senator McCain is going to enjoy this debate leading into November.
GOODWIN: Oh, this is -- I think this is -- under most scenarios, this is terrific for McCain to have them keep fighting. I mean, the way it's going now, neither one of them is going to have a majority at the convention. I mean, something is going to have to happen, putting Michigan and Florida back into the mix, would at least enable somebody to get a majority. Right now it's practically impossible.
PEREZ: And there is evidence that it's going to get a lot more negative between the two Democrats. McCain is going to continue to gain. Obama is going to argue now stronger than ever that where is this Hillary experience that she's talking about? She's going to keep saying, he's not ready to lead. And in the meantime, what we're finding out is that McCain is the only one of the three of them who's really ready to take that 3:00 call in the morning.
DOBBS: I am so...
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Well, you bring up the -- Senator Obama, the little (INAUDIBLE), you forgot the media. We're at fault too. Here is Senator Obama today putting the blame where it appropriately belongs, with us in the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Many of you in the press corps had been persuaded that you have been too hard on her and too soft on me. And so, you know, complaining about the refs apparently worked a little bit this week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: All right. We've got it going.
HALPERIN: In Hawaii we call that chutzpah.
DOBBS: As well you should.
HALPERIN: You know, Senator Obama's campaign are the masters at working the refs. And they say their coverage has not been unduly soft, and Senator Obama is out there ironically working the refs, complaining about the other side working the refs.
GOODWIN: I think, Lou, I mean, one of the things that happened yesterday, when Texas and Ohio in particular, is what happened on Sunday and Monday, where Obama got grilled, didn't do well, all these questions on Rezko and the NAFTA memo...
DOBBS: And we're just starting to hear about that.
GOODWIN: That's right. So these things I think are going too carry forward. And they're both now working the media, looking -- go ahead, do this, you know, look at her, look at him. So it's a free- for-all for the next seven weeks.
DOBBS: You know, a lot of discussion and blame pointed, and some credit taken on the part of Senator Clinton for her victories in Ohio and particularly in Texas. But that NAFTA blunder by the Obama campaign I think has to be given personally -- and I don't know about you three folks, but I mean, that has to be given great weight in my opinion.
PEREZ: Yes, he winked -- Obama's people winked an eye at Canada and said hey, it's OK, you know, don't worry about NAFTA. And I really think it hurt the Clinton (sic) campaign, especially in Ohio.
HALPERIN: We don't know that they said that. They dispute that account. I said -- I'll say again what I said last time we talked about this, I think that they were just not forthcoming about it. And for a guy who is basing his campaign on honesty and a different kind of politics, it's a dangerous game to play.
DOBBS: And that's the lesson time and time again, isn't it, in national politics (INAUDIBLE).
HALPERIN: And one he has barely learned because he has not been scrutinized very much by the press. Better for the Democratic Party, and I would argue, for Senator Obama if he's going to be the nominee to learn it now rather than to learn it down the road in the general election.
GOODWIN: Well, and you know, one of the rules is, never deny something that's in writing somewhere. And they denied a meeting took place.
DOBBS: That's one of those rules I would not want to find (INAUDIBLE).
(LAUGHTER)
GOODWIN: Well, that one is written down I think.
DOBBS: All right. Well, gentlemen, we thank you very much. And we appreciate your insight. This is getting better and better, if not curiouser and curiouser. Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow. For all of us, we thank you for watching. Good night from New York.
"THE ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown begins right now.
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