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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Obama Adviser Quits; McCain Focuses on Economy Slowdown; Employers Slash 63,000 Jobs; Gangs are Sending Billions to Mexico; China has Rapid Military Buildup
Aired March 07, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf.
Tonight, a top Obama adviser quits after calling Hillary Clinton a monitor. And President Bush admits our economy has slowed as employers flashed jobs at the fastest pace in five years. We'll have all of that, all the day's news and much more straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Friday, March 7. Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Christine Romans.
ROMANS: Good evening, everybody. Senator Barack Obama tonight is on the defensive after one of his top foreign policy advisers suddenly quit. The adviser, Samantha Power, called Senator Clinton a monster in an interview and Power told the BBC that Obama's promise to withdraw all of our combat troops from Iraq in 16 months is only a best-case scenario.
Senator Hillary Clinton immediately pounced on Power's remarks. Clinton declared those comments raise serious questions about the real policy positions of Barack Obama. We have extensive coverage tonight. We begin with Jessica Yellin with both campaigns tonight in Cheyenne, Wyoming -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christine, I'm in the reddest of red states, but today Wyoming is getting a hefty dose of blue as both Democratic candidates crisscrossed the state, showing residents here just how bitter this race has become.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: (INAUDIBLE)
YELLIN (voice-over): Wyoming Democrats basking in the glow of political attention as the candidates storm the state.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, what a great crowd. Thank you so much, everybody.
YELLIN: Clinton determined not to forfeit another caucus, had the family in town already.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much. YELLIN: On the stump, the back-biting between the campaigns is erupting in public, the latest dust-up over this suggestion by one of Obama's foreign policy advisers that he can't guarantee when he will withdraw troops from Iraq.
SAMANTHA POWER, FORMER OBAMA ADVISER: You can't make an arbitrary decision. You have no idea how things will unfold. You have no idea what your commanders are going to tell you.
YELLIN: Clinton seized on the opening.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the latest example of promising the American people one thing on the campaign trail and telling people in other countries, another.
YELLIN: It's forced Obama to respond.
OBAMA: It was because of George Bush, with an assist from Hillary Clinton and John McCain that we entered into this war. And I will bring this war to an end in 2009. So don't be confused.
YELLIN: The adviser, who was also quoted calling Clinton a monster, has since resigned. Meantime, the Obama campaign is hitting Clinton hard, calling her one of the most secretive politicians alive for her failure to release key documents. The candidate took a few digs, too, about Clinton's management style...
OBAMA: Look who has run the best campaign.
YELLIN: And that now infamous ad about who's ready to respond to a crisis at 3:00 a.m.
OBAMA: That was designed to feed into your fears. What do people think I'm going to do? I'm going to answer the phone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: Now, Christine, it's worth noting that adviser who resigned is a Pulitzer Prize winning historian who is largely credited with making the world pay more attention to African genocide. But tonight she's out; even Obama's top aides say it was the right thing for her to leave -- Christine.
ROMANS: All right, Jessica Yellin in Wyoming, thank you, Jessica.
The controversy over Samantha Power was not the only issue on Senator Clinton's agenda today. Senator Clinton also dropped another hint that she might consider Senator Obama as a running mate. She told voters in Mississippi that it might be possible some day for people to vote for both her and for Senator Obama. But Clinton added she wants voters to support her first.
Former president, Bill Clinton today campaigned for his wife in the state of Pennsylvania. The Pennsylvania primary on April 22nd is the next big contest in the Democratic campaign. President Clinton told voters that nearly all the economic gains in recent years have gone to only a handful of Americans. He said that simply won't work and only Hillary Clinton can fix the economy.
Senator John McCain who admits he doesn't know much about the economy also focused on the economic downturn today. McCain said tax cuts and job training are needed to help American families who have been hurt by the slowdown. McCain's comments follow news that employers cut 63,000 jobs last month, the most in five years.
Dana Bash with the McCain campaign reports from Atlanta -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christine, Senator McCain is running on his national security credentials, but when a voter asked him what he thinks his biggest issue is, he responded, quote, "it's obvious, the economy."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
BASH (voice-over): In Atlanta town hall, John McCain insisted the term recession matters to economists, not people feeling the pinch but conceded that America is likely in one.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The main factor out there is that Americans are hurting right now. They don't care too much whether it's technically a recession or not. So I would say that it's very likely and more and more economists are saying that we are probably, quote, "in a recession."
BASH: That bleak assessment is vivid proof that presumptive Republican nominee sees the political reality of a sour economy; a huge challenge for a candidate who admits his strongest suit is not economics.
MCCAIN: I have been involved in the economic issues affecting this country for the last 25 years. Am I more versed on national security issues? I would argue, yes.
BASH: Reacting to a new report of wide-spread job loss, McCain called for worker retraining. The first thing he would do for the economy as president, make permanent the Bush tax cuts he originally voted against.
MCCAIN: So that the American businesses and families are assured that they will not experience the impact, what I think would be a very serious blow to our economy.
BASH: Meanwhile, another town hall question was a bit of a flashback.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry approached you in 2004 about being his running mate. Would you be open to returning the favor and considering him as your running mate?
MCCAIN: No, no... (LAUGHTER)
MCCAIN: I'm a conservative Republican. So when I was approached -- when we had that conversation back in 2004, I mean, that's why I never even considered such a thing.
BASH: Later, a "New York Times" reporter reminded McCain that four years ago he denied to the newspaper that Kerry approached him. That elicited a testy exchange.
MCCAIN: Everybody knows that, that I had conversation. There's no living American in Washington that knows that. There's no one. And you know it, too. So -- no, you know it. You know it. So, I don't know -- even know why you asked.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
MCCAIN: No, you do know it. You do know it. I don't know, but it's well-known that I had the conversation. It's absolutely well- known by everyone. So do you have a question on another issue?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: That exchange went on and on, and McCain still refused to answer any questions on the topic. As for Democrats, they jumped on the incident, dubbing McCain, "Senator Hot Head" and saying it's the latest example of his temper. McCain adviser Steve Schmidt responding saying that this is all, "complete and total nonsense," insisting what Americans really care about are things like the 63,000 jobs lost last month -- Christine.
ROMANS: All right, Dana Bash with the McCain campaign reporting from Atlanta tonight.
Senator McCain's one remaining GOP challenger Ron Paul is finally dropping out of the Republican race. A campaign spokesman says Ron Paul acknowledges he won't be the nominee and he's winding down his campaign. Paul's decision reflects his poor standing in the polls and the fact he is in fourth place in the GOP -- GOP delegate count.
Still to come, rising outrage on Capitol Hill over the huge salaries paid to corporate leaders as middle class Americans struggle to deal with the economic downturn. '
Louise Schiavone will have that report -- Louise.
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christine, how much would you make if you led a company that racked up millions in losses? Probably not as much as the CEOs who appeared on Capitol Hill today -- Christine.
ROMANS: All right, thanks Louise. We look forward to that report.
Also, a rapidly growing coalition vows to stop the Pentagon from buying tanker aircraft from Europe and outsourcing our defense. We'll have a special report.
And you won't believe how much money drug traffickers are sending back across our border with Mexico. We'll have that story.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIO GAP)
ROMANS: Employers cut 63,000 jobs in February, the largest number in five years. The losses were widespread, coming from many sectors, including construction and manufacturing. And if not for government hiring, job losses would have topped 100,000. President Bush today tried to put the crisis in the best possible light.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's clear our economy has slowed. But the good news is we anticipated this and took decisive action to bolster the economy, by passing a growth package that will put money into the hands of American workers and businesses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: But many fear growth is a long way off. The president's top economic adviser today said the nation could experience negative growth this quarter. And for many middle-class Americans, a recovery doesn't seem to be in their future.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): It's the end of the work day for Mark Bolden, just a few weeks on the job after two and a half years of scrambling for I.T. work.
MARK BOLDEN, TECHNOLOGY WORKER: I've done a ton of consulting. I've worked for miscellaneous companies, done a lot of temporary positions. As you know, temporary is just that. It is temporary. It's nothing permanent. It's not like a regular career position where you're going to hang your hat and retire some day.
ROMANS: He finally found work but making significantly less money. He's not alone. Many of the jobs this economy creates pay less. And overall, the economy is losing jobs in manufacturing, in construction, and even last month in retail.
Alarming since consumer spending drives economic growth. And according to the Labor Department, the number of long-term unemployed remains high especially in the Midwest and Northeast. Those are people out of work for at least six months. At this New York City career center, the number of people looking for work has skyrocketed 50 percent during the past year.
LADESSIA JOHNSON, N.Y. STATE DEPT. OF LABOR: I'm noticing that there are more people coming in, in certain sectors of the economy. I notice that people in the service industries are coming in. People in retail sales are coming in more than normal.
ROMANS: In Washington, a picture emerges of what middle-class Americans have known for a while.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there are a lot of people apparently who don't have jobs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: And when we look just at the unemployment rate, we don't necessarily -- we're just looking at the unemployment rate, we don't get a true picture, do we?
KEITH HALL, BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS: No, you need to look at other things besides the unemployment rate, that's correct.
CUMMINGS: And that's because so many people have probably given up?
HALL: That happens, yes.
CUMMINGS: And perhaps, the jobs are not there.
HALL: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Grim jobs news, a new record high in oil, a housing market deteriorating by the day, according to new data from the Federal Reserve, consumers are increasingly turning to their credit cards to get by. And the Central Bank is making available billions of dollars, tens of billions of dollars to banks to encourage them to keep lending so the economy can grow.
It was a bad day on Wall Street as well as investors reacted to that grim economic news. Stocks tumbled. The Dow closed under 12,000, its lowest level in almost a year and a half.
In our poll tonight, do you believe President Bush is a "Johnny- come-lately" to what millions of Americans have known for months? That the economy is slowing? Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results later on in the broadcast.
Lawyers today demanded answers from banking and mortgage executives. They want to know why CEOs are taking home hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation while their companies and customers suffer through the foreclosure and credit crisis.
Louise Schiavone has that report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE (voice-over): Called to account, the top executives of financial institutions entangled in the nation's mortgage debacle.
CUMMINGS: I worry about the whole -- this whole culture where the little guy gets squeezed. And the thing he has nothing but a debt. Not a house, a debt. And then the proceeds just drift on up the golf course.
SCHIAVONE: Golden parachutes (ph) to Angelo Mozilo Countrywide CEO, who made $120 million in stocks and options last year and 400 million in stock sales since 1998. Stan O'Neal, former Merrill Lynch CEO who got $161 million in stock options and retirement benefits. Charles Prince, former Citigroup CEO, leaving the company last year with a $10 million bonus, 28 million in stocks and options and 1.5 million in other perks.
REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: You're in the middle of an enormous debacle that ended up costing your companies and shareholders billions of dollars. It cost people their homes. It cost other people their jobs. It seems like everyone is hurting except for you.
SCHIAVONE: Mozilo says he worked hard for the millions he made at Countrywide, the company he co-founded.
ANGELO MOZILO, CEO, COUNTRYWIDE FINANCIAL: I'm very found of the home ownership opportunities that Countrywide has provided for over 20 million families.
SCHIAVONE: Many such opportunities on the ropes as credit- challenged homeowners across the nation face the threat of foreclosure. The executives before Congress and their company's compensation officers said they were paid for their talent, skills for which evidently there is no price ceiling.
REP. PAUL KANJORSKI (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I'm waiting for some executive to come along with the first trillion dollar income; would that shock any of you?
SCHIAVONE: No response.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: Christine, committee Republicans charged Democratic leaders were in search of villains when in fact there were none. Democrats said though there was something wrong with the system that rewarded spectacular financial losses with executive compensation in the millions -- Christine?
ROMANS: And sometimes in the tens of millions and even more. Louise Schiavone, thank you so much, Louise.
Still ahead disturbing new evidence that drug gangs are sending billions of dollars from this country to Mexico. We'll have a special report and Mexico's former president, Vicente Fox, blasts Lou. We'll tell you what Fox is saying now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: A stunning report from the State Department says that Mexican drug gangs are sending home billions of dollars every year from the U.S. What's more, a decision by the Treasury Department six years ago may be making the traffickers' job easier.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Buried deep in the State Department's 2008 international narcotics control strategy report are shocking details about the extent of the drug profits flowing across the U.S./Mexico border.
It says, "U.S. officials estimate that since 2003, as much as $22 billion may have been repatriated to Mexico from the United States by drug trafficking organizations."
That's equivalent to one-fifth of legal remittances by Mexican citizens living in the U.S. legally or illegally. Those remittances have accelerated since 2002 when the Treasury Department began allowing U.S. banks to accept Mexico's matricula consolar identification card. Some lawmakers are trying to stop the practice.
SEN. DAVID VITTER (R), LOUISIANA: This is a document issued by the Mexican government, which clearly, and I think it's beyond debate, that it clearly goes to many, many illegal immigrants, Mexican citizens, in the United States, illegally and helps them at the present time under present law and practice, particularly the banking industry get credit cards, open bank accounts, make it very possible to live and operate in this country.
WIAN: According to the State Department report, the matricula consolar card helps facilitate legal remittances because centers don't have to open bank accounts but it also leaves the system open to potential money laundering and exploitation by organized crime groups.
Mexican President Felipe Calderon says his government is making progress against drug traffickers.
FELIPE CALDERON, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO: We seized the largest amount of cocaine in one single operation more than 24 tons and we seized the largest amount of cash coming from drugs in one single operation as well, more than $205 million in cash.
WIAN: At the same time, Calderon's government is aggressively promoting the matricula card through its network of consulates in the United States.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: We asked a Treasury spokeswoman if that decision is under review given the State Department's report on drug money laundering. She deflected the question saying Treasury relies on the Patriot Act, which requires financial institutions to know why they're doing business with. The State Department also declined to comment about its report -- Christine.
ROMANS: So Casey, let me get this straight, one out of every $5 sent across the border in remittances to Mexico is related to drug gangs?
WIAN: Absolutely. That's what the State Department's report shows, and it seems that U.S. banking industry regulators are content to allow that to happen because these remittances generate so much profit for the U.S. banking industry.
ROMANS: All right, thank you so much, Casey Wian. Thanks, Casey.
Mexico's former president, Vicente Fox, speaking at Stanford University again called for better treatment for Mexicans living in the United States. Fox also took the opportunity to criticize Lou for his position on illegal immigration.
According to "The Stanford Daily", Fox said quote, "don't leave this issue in the hands of xenophobes." That's tough talk from the former president who last October challenged Lou to a debate on the issue, an invitation Lou was happy to accept, but despite repeated calls from this program, Fox's staff was unable to arrange the face- off and Fox's office has now stopped returning our telephone calls.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Jim in Alabama: "Lou, the main problem with politics is that there are politicians involved."
Mary in Vermont: "Lou, Howard Dean thinks the state should obey the Democratic Party's rules, so why does the Democratic Party believe nobody needs to obey federal immigration law?"
Scott in Louisiana: "Hey, Lou, I want a do-over until I get the results I want, a presidential candidate with competent ideas on the economy, immigration and the war."
We'll have more of your e-mail later in the broadcast. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of Lou's book "Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit". And remember to catch Lou's new radio show every weekday from 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern. You can go to loudobbs.com to find local listings for "The Lou Dobbs Show" on the radio.
Coming up, Hugo Chavez of all people tells Latin American leaders to chill out after days of escalating tensions in the region and threats of war.
Also ahead, outsourcing our national security, rising outrage tonight over the outsourcing of a U.S. Air Force tanker contract, we'll have the latest on that and a great deal more still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: The crisis between Venezuela, Ecuador and U.S. ally Colombia appears to be over. The presidents of all three countries tonight agreed to end the standoff at a meeting in the Dominican Republic. The crisis brought the three countries to the brink of war after Colombian troops killed a rebel leader in Ecuador. Venezuela sent thousands of soldiers to its border with Colombia, supported by tanks and aircraft. Colombia accused Venezuela's anti- American president, Hugo Chavez, of supporting rebels who are trying to over throw the Colombian government. Chavez told everyone to chill out, as he put it.
As tensions ease in Latin America, there's rising evidence that communist China is escalating its aggressive military buildup. The Pentagon's latest report on China's military says Beijing is increasing spending on nuclear forces, anti-satellite weapons and cyber warfare. But the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific region seems unconcerned.
Jamie McIntyre reports on his exclusive interview with Admiral Timothy Keating.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): China continues to spend disproportionately on its military buildup, according to the Pentagon's latest report, buying newer missiles, war submarines, anti-satellite weapons and funding cyber warfare.
It's an 18 percent increase in China's announced defense budget of $59 billion. Actual military spending is suspected to be more than double that. So why is this man so sanguine?
ADMIRAL TIMOTHY KEATING, U.S. PACIFIC COMMANDER: I wouldn't worry about China. (INAUDIBLE) Pacific command. We watch them.
MCINTYRE: Admiral Tim Keating is the commander in charge of defeating China should war ever come. In an exclusive interview with CNN, he insist the Chinese buildup while somewhat of a mystery is not all that menacing.
KEATING: I'm not so worried about losing to them, if it comes to that. We're in pretty good shape there in the Pacific.
MCINTYRE: Keating just returned from another trip to China where he pressed his counterparts to be a little more forthcoming.
KEATING: We can see the equipment they're fielding. We can watch some exercises and we wonder why don't you share with us your intentions?
MCINTYRE: And why don't they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would call it a mere refusal to do so.
MCINTYRE: Contrast China's shoot-down of a weather satellite in high orbit with America's destruction of a U.S. satellite already falling to earth. The U.S. gave a detailed explanation for its actions, while the Chinese were mum.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If their intention is to shoot down satellites that could be a hazard to navigation, understandable. If their intention was to shoot down satellites that we would use for communication in a conflict or war, entirely different matter.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: While China's modernization is aimed at transforming its military into one that can fight short, high-tech wars, Admiral Keating's judgment is China is still well aware that it's no match militarily for the U.S. So while he says, they're watching China, he believes the potential for conflict is relatively low -- Christine.
ROMANS: Jamie, what can you tell us about the potential for cyber warfare? It's something that, you know, the folks in the Pentagon have been talking about. Something that shows up in the reports about China's military capabilities and ambitions?
MCINTYRE: Well, China has, according to Pentagon sources, penetrated some of the unclassified computer systems at the Pentagon. They spent a lot of effort trying to do that.
And Admiral Keating, in my interview with him, conceded that they're spending a lot of time making sure that China doesn't get anywhere, in his words, they don't want him to be. So far, that highly-classified systems have not be penetrated.
And the U.S. is also spending a lot of money and effort on cyber warfare and computer network defenses. So it's something they're watching. But they say so far, China hasn't gotten anything really good, only they've created a nuisance, really, in some of the e-mail systems, including by the way, the e-mail system used by the secretary of defense.
ROMANS: All right. Jamie McIntyre, thanks so much. Fascinating.
A rapidly-growing coalition today, vowing to stop a $40-billion Air Force tanker contract from going to Europe. Labor unions, trade critics and lawmakers joined forces to stop the outsourcing of a critical national security component and American jobs.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The average age of an aerial refueling tanker in the Air Force is 47 years. No one disputes that they need to be replaced. The fight is over who will do the replacing.
The Air Force has said the manufacturer will be the European Aeronautical Space Company, EADS. In an attempt to deflect criticism of the deal, supporters point out at that contract is legal and follows the letter of the law. That is the wrong question, say opponents of the deal.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: So the question isn't did the Air Force have the right to do this or the power under American law, but was it good for national security in the long term? Was it fair to American taxpayers?
TUCKER: EADS has received $5 billion in subsidies from European governments. The Air Force ignored those subsidies.
SUE PAYTON, AIR FORCE ACQUISITION EXECUTIVE: Subsidies are not taken into account within the evaluation criteria.
TUCKER: It's a statement that floored critics of the deal, who note that the United States is in a trade dispute with the company.
LORI WALLACH, GLOBAL TRADE WATCH: This is a company who's getting this money, at the very moment the United States is suing at the World Trade Organization for systematically using legal subsidies to beat out U.S. companies.
TUCKER: The suit was filed earlier this year. Compounding outrage for labor groups is the fact that losing the contract means losing jobs.
THEA LEE, AFL-CIO: In a moment when the economy's losing job, in particular losing jobs in the manufacturing sector, that we're taking our own tax dollars and plowing them in overseas to create the job somewhere else.
TUCKER: Fifty-two-thousand manufacturing jobs were lost last month alone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now EADS does claim that 22,000 jobs will be created here in the United States. However, Boeing counters that, in saying 44,000 jobs would have been created if they'd win the contract -- Christine.
ROMANS: How strong is the opposition on the Hill to this? And supporters, are they just counting on this going away?
TUCKER: That's exactly right. The supporters of this deal are counting on them getting tired of yelling and screaming because, by law, everything is all neat and squared away. This is a legal deal. They just figure, you know what, they'll get tired and go away. This deal will go on.
ROMANS: Certainly have some voices that haven't gone away quite yet.
TUCKER: Yes, exactly.
ROMANS: All right, Bill Tucker. Thanks so much, Bill.
Congressman Todd Tiahrt and Senator Pat Murray joined us here this week to express their outrage at this deal. The last two days, more than 80,000 of you logged onto Congressman Tiahrt's and Senator Murray's Web sites to express your outrage at the Air Force decision to outsource American jobs and national security. There was so much traffic after we reported the story that both sites crashed. If you'd like to add your name, you can find links to both their Web sites at loudobbs.com.
Coming up, Senators Clinton and Obama sharpen their attacks as the Democratic Party scrambles to end the delegate fight. We'll hear from super delegates on both sides of the Democratic race, next.
Also ahead, the blame game over the outsourcing of that Air Force tanker contract and why some leading Democrats are under fire tonight for blaming Senator McCain.
And "Heroes," our weekly tribute to our men and women in uniform. Tonight, a decorated Navy SEAL tells us his absolutely incredible story. Don't miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: The close contest between senators Obama and Clinton has refocused attention on the states of Florida and Michigan and on the role of super delegates. Florida and Michigan delegates were not counted, because the state parties violated national party rules.
Two super delegates join me here tonight to discuss the issue. Robert Zimmerman, Democratic strategist, Hillary Clinton supporter and a regular on LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, and Jim Zogby, a member of the Democratic National Committee's executive committee and a Barack Obama supporter.
Welcome to both of you.
I want to start with you, Robert, first, what, a year ago on this program, you said there wouldn't be a front-runner. And I think what we're seeing happened with this whole delegate fight is probably a perfect -- perfect example of that.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: That's exactly the point. A year ago, in fact in January 2007, I made the point that front-runner thinker is obsolete political thinking, especially when you approach Iowa and New Hampshire, because they're the ones who like to choose the frontrunners and resent anyone that the media dictate the frontrunner to be.
So therefore, you saw Giuliani, of course, be replaced by McCain, and, of course, Hillary Clinton lose her frontrunner status amongst the pundits to being a close race. And I think it's actually very exciting and very healthy for democracy, and it's great for the Democratic Party.
ROMANS: Jim, what does this week, Ohio and Texas in particular, mean for this tight race? And what does it mean for Senator Obama in particular?
JIM ZOGBY, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well, look, Hillary Clinton had big wins, but what I'm concerned with is the big cost of those big wins. She cannot win the regular -- the elected delegate count. But what she can do is deliver a bloodied front-runner and some battle-tested tactics to the Republicans to use in November. And I think that's the sad part of all of this.
ZIMMERMAN: And to the delegates --
ZOGBY: Robert, I let you -- Robert, I let you speak. Can I just -- let me just finish the thought.
ZIMMERMAN: By all means, go ahead.
ZOGBY: What troubles me is the -- you know, we've seen the race card. And we've seen the gender card, and we've seen the Muslim card --
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, my goodness, Jim.
ZOGBY: We saw those used before.
ZIMMERMAN: Jim, that's the kind of rhetoric --
ZOGBY: The security card and the cynicism card.
ZIMMERMAN: You know, Jim, you've made your point.
ZOGBY: I think it's dangerous.
ZIMMERMAN: Jim, you made your point. Now, you're running the clock. I mean, that's the kind of rhetoric that you should save for an edition on "Jerry Springer."
ZOGBY: No, no, no.
ZIMMERMAN: The fact the matter is, there's nothing wrong with having a very vigorous and open debate about the issues. And that's what at stake here. We should have a debate about who's best to address the national security issues, where do they stand on the issues on NAFTA and free trade versus fair trade, what their real health-care positions are.
And while both sides can claim that they've been unfairly treated and misrepresented by each other, the point is what more concerns me, what Obama's staff is saying about Senator Clinton's positions. Whether it's a top economic adviser, meeting with Canadian government officials, saying, don't worry about his position on NAFTA; it's just posturing. Or most recently at the (INAUDIBLE) saying...
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: That goes two ways, because Hillary Clinton advisers met with the Canadians at the Hillary Clinton campaign's request. And said pretty much...
ZIMMERMAN: Name the adviser, James.
ZOGBY: The adviser --
ZIMMERMAN: James, name the adviser.
ZOGBY: Listen, the issue is not the adviser. The issue is the Canadian government.
ZIMMERMAN: The issue is the meeting never took place. The Clinton campaign said it wasn't. Let's focus on the issues.
ZOGBY: And the Obama campaign said that the adviser did not say that. He himself denied it, and the Canadian government denied it.
ROMANS: Let's talk about -- let's talk about the tone here. The point here, I guess, is the tone of this debate. I mean, the point is, is that so many people have said that, on the issues -- and I'm sure you guys are going to disagree with me on this, but on the issues, there are so many similarities that there are wedges on some of these things like NAFTA.
ZIMMERMAN: Right.
ROMANS: And some of these things about what -- what the public statements are and what the private -- the private goings on behind the scenes are.
Jim, what about the tone of this -- this campaign? I mean, what happens if you've got the two Democrats, frontrunners, carving each other up? Doesn't that just hand the Republicans something next fall?
ZOGBY: And that's exactly what my concern was, that up until we got to Texas and Ohio, the tone, I think has been, despite the fact that there have been some lapses at a fairly high level, but there was a mocking of Senator Obama, and there was the use of cynicism and scare tactics that I think hurt.
And there was the raising of several other concerns that really were not germane to the campaign. Sandals that were not at all relevant that I think harmed Senator Obama, harmed the Democratic constituency and have driven a wedge within the Democratic Party. We have some healing to do. What I don't want to see is this go forward.
ZIMMERMAN: James, of course we're going to -- of course we're going to...
ZOGBY: That we won't go forward if we continue to play the game this way --
ZIMMERMAN: ... James -- James, of course, we have to bring the party together. And I think both Senator Obama's camp and Senator Clinton's camp are very conscious of that. But that shouldn't be an excuse for not debating the issues and having a very vigorous discussion about the issues.
I think the issue to remember here is Senator Obama's camp, which you're speaking for tonight, feels this is a tough and aggressive campaign. This is a warm-up to what the Republican National Committee and their swift-boating tactics are going to do. And one of the reasons I respect Senator Clinton is she's not complaining about the personal attack she's facing. She's staying focused on the issues and going forward. And that's what we have to demand of our nominee.
ZOGBY: Look, I would hope that neither candidate descends into the kind of tactics we've seen up till now. I think it needs to stop. I know that Senator Obama wants to keep this on the level that it's been.
Because frankly, he has inspired a generation of kids who've given up on politics. He's inspired both young and old to believe that they can see politics and people who are in politics as people they can trust. That has not been the way this campaign has been run.
ZIMMERMAN: James -- James, the record turn outs tribute to both candidates. Let's not be afraid of...
ROMANS: And someone said -- someone said the record turnout is not attributable to both candidates, but it's actually a rejection of the Bush administration, or some of his policies.
ZIMMERMAN: Exactly.
ROMANS: Some people would say that.
ZIMMERMAN: I think they would say that, but I think if you look at the crowds they're getting at their rallies, the tremendous support that we're seeing in some quarters for Senator Obama and for Senator Clinton, I think we're seeing a level of enthusiasm in terms of contributions for these candidates which shows Democrats prepared to fight back and make their case.
ZOGBY: There's no doubt -- there's no doubt that Senator Obama has inspired people in a way that I've not seen. I don't think anyone has seen: 1.1 million donors. Tens of thousands of volunteers cross the country.
ZIMMERMAN: And James, you -- and James, you --
ZOGBY: And rallies the likes of which we haven't seen in politics in more than a generation.
ZIMMERMAN: James, you'll --
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: Do you support the idea of Michigan and Florida having a vote and being part of this process, as opposed to...?
ZOGBY: I would love to see them. But the election they held was not a legitimate election. And we have to do a do-over. And I hope you're going to inspire us by supporting democracy? The only one on the ballot in Michigan.
And Senator Clinton was the only one, in Florida, people went to vote for a tax issue, not because of the candidates. They knew it didn't count. We have to do it over, if at all.
ROMANS: That's a microcosm tonight of the vigorous and spirited, enthusiastic debate going on within the -- within the Democratic Party tonight. OK, thank you, gentlemen.
ZOGBY: Thank you.
ROMANS: Jim Zogby and Robert Zimmerman.
A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll: Do you believe President Bush is a "Johnny-come-lately" to what millions of Americans have known for months, that the economy is slowing?
Yes or no? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
Up next, John Kerry for V.P.? One presidential candidate addressed that possibility. But it's not the candidate you might suspect.
And a backlash tonight against leading Democrats over comments about John McCain. We'll have those stories, a great deal more with three of the best political analysts, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Coming up at the top of the hour, the "ELECTION CENTER" with John Roberts.
John, what are you working on?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, Christine, we've got a big show coming up for you tonight on the "ELECTION CENTER" at the top of the hour.
Barack Obama tries to bounce back from his latest problem, and adviser's comments that gave Hillary Clinton just the ammunition that she has been looking for.
Also, the Florida and the Michigan mess, they've been talking about it all day. How can they get straighten it out? How can they get those delegates seated? Former U.S. civil rights commissioner Marion Frances Berry is warning the Democrats they are in danger of disenfranchising millions of minority voters if they don't get it sorted. She joins me at the top of the hour.
We've got a big show coming up tonight. Friday night, the night before the Wyoming caucuses. So make sure that you stay with us -- Christine.
ROMANS: I sure will, thanks, John.
Joining me now are three of the best political analysts in the country. Pulitzer-Prize-winning columnist for the "New York Daily News" and CNN contributor, Michael Goodwin; syndicated columnist, Miguel Perez, also a CNN contributor; and Keith Richburg, New York bureau chief for the "Washington Post."
Gentlemen, welcome to the program.
I want to start here first with the economy -- 63,000 jobs lost. We knew things were slowing down. The president today saying, yes, things are slowing down, but with his pro-growth policies, you know, things will get better.
This is issue No. 1 around the kitchen table. This is issue No. 1 on the campaign trail. It's going to stay that way through the summer, through the elections?
KEITH RICHBURG, "WASHINGTON POST": I think that's going to be the hot-button issue. You know, they've been out there all this time talking about immigration, talking about health care, but the economy just seems to be forcing everything else off the agenda.
And I think, you know, we'll have to wait and see how it looks, you know, coming to the general election period. But you know, John McCain has got that horrible quote of his, saying, "That's not my strong suit."
ROMANS: Right.
RICHBURG: So we'll have to see if that comes back to haunt him later on.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: One of the things you have to keep in mind, not just jobs disappearing, but wealth is disappearing at an astronomical rate. I mean, you talk about the housing, but also look at the stock markets, down I think, 17, 18 percent since last summer.
People's pensions -- right -- are all tied up in the market. So most -- 40, 50 percent of Americans are involved in the stock market in some way or another.
Money is just going away every day. It's going to money heaven everywhere.
ROMANS: And looking at the housing market, and the housing market is almost deteriorating on a daily basis. Now for the first time since 1945, that dream of American home ownership, people actually own less of their home than any other time in history. I mean, that's kind of a foreboding statistic.
MIGUEL PEREZ, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: How about I have a brother who is in real estate in Florida, so he's like my gauge of what's going on. I call him up all day. He's probably watching me now.
He's scared about the economy. I mean, things are really in bad shape in Florida. I go there to visit all the time, and you see hundreds, thousands of empty, brand-new empty apartments that are just there.
I understand the foreclosure situation. You should go to Florida and see all of the high-rises, still going up. These cranes going up. And they don't know where they're going to find people to occupy all of these apartments. It's crazy.
ROMANS: Do you think there's confidence that the three people who are the front-runners now are going to be able to have some kind of a plan? I mean, you can say what you want about the economy on the campaign trail, but we're kind of in dire straits in some extent?
RICHBURG: Exactly. Looking at the exit polls and the analysis, that's why Hillary Clinton was able to do so well in Ohio, because she was able to speak more directly to these economic fears and concerns that people have.
It's unclear whether, obviously, that's going to carry on in the general election. But so far, it seems to have helped her, especially with those blue-collar workers.
GOODWIN: I think one of the problems with that, though, Christine, is that the solutions are very difficult. They are not going to be easy.
ROMANS: And complicated.
GOODWIN: Right.
ROMANS: You can't do one without addressing another. Gas prices without housing. And jobs without --
GOODWIN: That's right. And you can't just say to the American people, here, we can give you more, we can take care of your problems, because the problem is that our government spends too much already.
And the dollar has been devalued because of that. So the deficits we have in both trade and spending are really what's crippling us.
ROMANS: You know, if your brother really wants to be depressed he can be -- take his housing market and then go to Europe and try to take a vacation. Because it's like $1.54 or something for Europe.
PEREZ: No, it's not a great idea to go to Europe right now for us Americans.
ROMANS: No.
PEREZ: But you know, relating to what you're saying, in terms of the campaign, they don't really, you know -- I mean, it's kind of crazy right now. They're kind of avoiding, really, dealing directly with these issues that are really affecting us. And in getting with this personal attacks, we're just tired of it.
ROMANS: Right.
PEREZ: And now we see that it's going to go on and on and on for the next two months maybe with the personal attacks. Let's talk about issues that really concern the American people. ROMANS: Let's talk about -- I want to talk about this whole monster. The monster controversy today. You know, is there a sense here that you've got -- well, especially for the Obama campaign, that you have the public comments and then you have the kind of the private, you know, back-channel business as usual. That's sort of the suggestion here.
RICHBURG: Well, that's the suggestion that Hillary Clinton is trying make, you know. Is that there are two things going on. A couple of things on that.
No. 1, I think we're seeing inexperience on the national stage of the Obama team. You know, he hasn't run anything this large like a campaign before. He hasn't been an executive. And all of a sudden, he's responsible for all of these aides and advisers. He probably doesn't know what they're going around saying.
ROMANS: And there are a lot of people every day, I know, who are speaking for each of these campaigns.
RICHBURG: Well, that's right. And you know, the things she said, you know, while -- while nasty and deplorable, it's a thing we hear every day from these analyst, except, they're smart enough to say "off the record."
ROMANS: Before they actually say it. Right.
GOODWIN: And I do believe Hillary Clinton has been called worse. Monster, that's not so bad.
ROMANS: But is it -- does it set a wrong tone? I mean, then do you have the Democrats kind of -- and I keep using the expression, but I mean, are they kind of self-destructing? And does it hand something to the Republicans later on in the year?
PEREZ: Yes, well, from the Republicans' perspective, we have a saying in Spanish that I'll translate. The good thing about this is how bad things are getting. And that is exactly -- that should be my -- John McCain's slogan right now, as he looks at the Democrats, continue to fight, thinks they're getting worse and worse.
ROMANS: Step back. Step back. What about McCain and vice president? He's got to have a long list, maybe it's a short list. I guess I don't know how long his list is.
But you know, there was the big joke on the trail, somebody asked him about, you know, John Kerry. Maybe he said, no, I'm a conservative Republican.
But what do you think? Who do you think is on his list? Who do they need on this list?
RICHBURG: That's a -- that's a great question. We're not going to be able to get inside his head and answer it. You know, I've heard Colin Powell would be a terrific choice, you know, especially if he's going against Barack Obama. I've heard a woman, especially if, for example, Hillary does not get the nomination. There might be women who would like to see a woman on the national ticket. What would that do? He's looking at all these governors. Charlie Crist's name comes along. He --
ROMANS: It seems like wherever he is, he's asked if that leading Republican, you know, would be the one who should be on his ticket.
RICHBURG: Absolutely. And others say, look, he's got to shore up that conservative base. So maybe, if not Mike Huckabee, then somebody from that wing of the party. We'll have to wait and see.
GOODWIN: I think there are a couple litmus tests. Any person definitely has to be younger, has to be vigorous, has to be a good campaigner, kind of photogenic, telegenic and probably has to be somebody McCain is really comfortable with.
I don't think it's going to be somebody he's going to sort of be forced to take to satisfy a section of the party, the right-wing, for example. I don't think McCain is that kind of person. That's not who he is. It's going to be somebody he can work with and is comfortable with and can say this man can be president or this woman can be president after me.
ROMANS: What do you make about Democratic suggestions that this whole Air Force tanker outsourcing deal is somehow his fault? That Nancy Pelosi is saying that until -- that everything was on track for Boeing, and then suddenly the European consortium got it. What do you make of that?
PEREZ: She's reaching. Really reaching.
GOODWIN: Yes, I second that.
ROMANS: All right. Gentlemen, we're going to leave it there. It will be interesting. He doesn't have to -- he doesn't have to rush to get this -- to get a running mate at this point either. He can sit back, watch the Democrats as they continue to, like, fight for delegates.
RICHBURG: Well, absolutely. There's no rush for him. He's got all summer to do this. He doesn't have to do anything until the convention. I think, you know, especially because he said the economy is not his strong suit, watch for him to pick somebody who does have an economic background.
GOODWIN: Well, and it also -- it keeps attention on him...
ROMANS: Right.
GOODWIN: ... where otherwise we might not be talking about it. That is all we're talking about right now with John McCain. So I think it's probably a good thing for him to play it out a little bit. And why make the decision before you have to, unless you're absolutely certain?
ROMANS: Keith Richburg, Michael Goodwin, Miguel Perez. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Wonderful weekend I wish you.
Still ahead, "Heroes." Tonight, a remarkable story of heroism, a former Navy SEAL honored after a fierce battle against radical Islamist terrorists. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Now, "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve this country in uniform.
Tonight, we introduce you to Marcus Luttrell, a former Navy SEAL and the only survivor of a fierce battle in Afghanistan. He was awarded the Navy Cross, the Navy's second highest medal, for his extraordinary heroism.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): Marcus Luttrell grew up in a military family that had a romanticized view of the service. Until he became a Navy SEAL.
PETTY OFFICER MARCUS LUTTRELL, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Thought it was the sexiest job on the planet. And what else could there be? But when I got there, I had to go through all of it. It wasn't -- it really wasn't that sexy. You know, it was tough.
ROMANS: He got through the rigorous training and was sent to fight in Iraq. He described the environment as violent all the time.
LUTTRELL: We would go after individual targets, individual sets (ph), you know. So -- and they're usually high-value targets. So they're going to have bodyguards and protection, and everything's going to be bobby-trapped, stuff like that. So it's pretty much aggressive the whole time.
ROMANS: Luttrell spent seven months in Iraq and was later sent to Afghanistan in 2005. On June 28th, he and three team members were sent on a reconnaissance mission, Operation Redwing.
LUTTRELL: We were going after a high value target, big-time militia man out there that was causing a lot of havoc on the Paki\Afghani border out there in the Kunar province. We were supposed to be in there for anywhere from 48 to 72 hours. And this is day one.
I guess we were there for about an hour, and got walked on by some villagers, two males and a kid. We interrogated them. They weren't violent towards us or anything so we turned them loose, and then we relocated again.
ROMANS: An hour later he says the SEALS were surrounded by over 100 Taliban fighters.
LUTTRELL: They had 360-degrees circle -- pin on us. There was nowhere we could go. And when I squeezed off a round, they unloaded on us. And that lasted for about two hours, we fought. And then one- by-one they picked us off until I was the last man left. ROMANS: Navy SEAL, Mike Murphy, risked his life to call in for reinforcement. The rescue team's helicopter was destroyed by an RPG. Sixteen more Americans had been killed. Luttrell, despite multiple injuries, crawled seven miles and made it to a village that was friendly to coalition forces. After four days he was rescued.
LUTTRELL: It was one of the -- a week of hell kind of thing. So...
ROMANS: Luttrell received the Navy cross for combat heroism in 2006.
LUTTRELL: If your heart's strong enough and you are mentally focused, you can get through anything.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Marcus Luttrell is one of several decorated war heroes who are taking part in the Vets for Freedom national heroes tour. That tour kicks off in San Diego Friday, March 14th.
And now, the results of tonight's poll -- 96 percent of you believe President Bush is a "Johnny-come-lately" to what millions of Americans have known for months; the economy is slowing.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us again tomorrow. For all of us here, good night from New York.
The "ELECTION CENTER" with John Roberts starts right now.
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