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Clinton-Obama, Obama-Clinton; A Major Terror Plot Foiled in China; Midwest Buried Under a White Blanket; Obama's Secret to Success
Aired March 09, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: A House seat once held by one of the most powerful Republican lawmakers in the country now in Democratic hands. How big a blow? Is it a sign of things to come for the Grand Old Party?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That may, you know, be where this is headed but, of course, we have to decide who's on the top of the ticket.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's premature. You won't see me as a vice presidential candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Presidential or vice presidential, yes, but it might end up being the only way to unite what could end up as a divided party.
And the secret is out. The secret to Barack Obama's success. The marriage of social networking and campaigning one friend at a time. The future is here as we run down politics right now.
And hello again everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. If ever there's been a story signifying the removal of the old guard in politic, this may be it. The seat once held by the solidified Republican Party, the wrestling coach and more importantly, the one time speaker of the House of Representatives has gone to the Democrats.
This man, Bill Foster. He is the new congressman from the 14th district in Illinois. Who is he, you ask? He's a Democrat who just won the normally safe Republican seat held for two decades by the aforementioned Denny Hastert. Bill Foster defeated a Republican candidate who got lots of help from the National Party and John McCain himself. Democrats are jubilant.
This is a political earthquake. Who would have thought, says Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky. One would have thought that the DNA of this district is Republican. This means there's not a district in America that is safe for the Republicans. Republicans are just shaking their heads. By itself, a top House aide tells the Politico this would not be that big of a deal but coupled with everything else; it will just inflate the House Republican conference.
And symbolically, the aide says that losing Hastert's seat is like the toppling of the Saddam's statue in Baghdad for Republicans.
OK. Now, that sounds like a bit of a reach. But how big is this really? Let's stay right here before we move on to the Obama-Clinton news today. And start things off in Washington with Congressional correspondent Dana Bash, who has been following this.
Dana, set us straight. Is this substance or symbolism or maybe both?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's both, Rick, and there's no question about it. Look, Denny Hastert, as you said, he was in this district for 21 years. But much more importantly, he was the longest- serving Republican speaker. He decided to step down for a number of reasons. That left this seat open. And look, this is a suburban Chicago seat. This is a seat that was one of those typical suburban seats that could go either way in a year like this and it went the way of the Democrats.
So there is no question about it. You read some of those quotes, the blank quotes from Republican aide -- that's just the reality. The reality is that whether or not this is a real harbinger for -- or sort of bell weather for what happens in November or not is unclear. But it definitely speaks to what I have been seeing covering the Republican presidential candidates, most recently John McCain, which is that there is the enthusiasm for Democrats, it just blows the enthusiasm for Republicans right out of the water this year.
SANCHEZ: Let me throw you a quick curve ball before we let you go. Is it more significance because it happened in Illinois, the home of Barack Obama?
BASH: You know, I think it's probably most significant because of the seat that it was before that and that was Denny Hastert. I think that was really it. You know, whether or not it was like the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue or whatever it was that you read. That probably is a bit of a hyperbole, but there is no question about it that this is an area that had been -- that has been increasingly, perhaps more and more recently Democratic.
Just a quick example, remember Tammy Duckworth. She's the Democratic candidate back in 2006. She actually lost and it remained the neighboring district. Also in suburban Chicago remained in Republican hands. So the fact that this, which is kind of similar, this district went Democrat, is really telling in terms of what's coming.
Now Republicans say, well, this is you have to really look at the race because it's one man versus one man and there were things that really indicative to this race that may not be able to be looked at in general. But the fact is, it isn't keeping with the themes and the feeling that you've got and you're sensing out there and so it's the kind of year it is.
Rick?
SANCHEZ: Hey, Dana, thanks so much for bringing us that report. Let's bring our panel in now. Baoky Vu is a White House adviser and a John McCain supporter. Aaron Gould is -- Aaron Gould Sheinin I should say is a reporter with the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution." A newspaper I read every morning. And Cynthia Good of "Pink" magazine is a Hillary Clinton supporter. Good to have all of you here.
How about it? How big is this Denny Hastert? As they say the old wrestling coach who brought the Republican Party together in a difficult time. How big is this?
AARON GOULD SHEININ, ATLANTA, JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION REPORTER: I think it's a little too early to go so far as to say it's the fall of Baghdad. But it depends on what the Democrats can do from here on out. If they can bottle this sort of lightning that they captured in Illinois this past week and replicate that across the country and start by finding good candidates that they happen to always been able to do in the past, target districts that are vulnerable or even maybe more towards the Republican side and go after them, then yes.
SANCHEZ: But, Baoky, look, it is one seat many Republicans would say.
BAOKY N. VU, WHITE HOUSE ADVISOR COMMITTEE ON ASIAN AFFAIRS: That's right.
SANCHEZ: Making a mountain out of a molehill, perhaps here.
VU: Well, it certainly sends a war than signal. Given the fact that it's traditionally Republican seat as Aaron has said.
SANCHEZ: You say that as a Republican?
VU: And I say that as a Republican. Now -- between now and November, I think once the love feast with Senator Obama dies down and the media starts to flush out the details and his positions on national security, on the economy, on how to deal with this war on terror, as well as the media getting a chance to flush out his relationships with questionable figures, then I think we're going to see perhaps not so much of a big issue out of it.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you something, Cynthia. What's more important here? This loss of the Denny Hastert seat to Republicans or the fact that they are really getting raked over the coals in most of the primaries in terms of numbers of people who are going to vote Democratic as opposed to Republican?
CYNTHIA GOOD, EDITOR, PINK MAGAZINE: Well, I mean, we're definitely seeing even more of a ground flow of support for the Democratic Party. You saw it here. I mean, that's a great example.
SANCHEZ: No question about that.
GOOD: I think it is especially benefiting Obama because he kicked in some dollars to support Foster. So it's especially good for him. SANCHEZ: Is this part of the Gorge Bush-Dick Cheney backlash or is it just young new voters who are inspired out there looking for something else?
VU: I think it's the arithmetic of young new voters out there looking for something else but not really knowing yet exactly what it is they are looking for. That's why I think it is important that once the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, or whoever it may be, whether it's Senator Clinton or Obama, when it solidifies, the GOP will have its opportunity to go after the issues.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question about these voters out there. Why are the late deciders going for Hillary?
Cynthia?
GOOD: Well, I think one of the reasons is that women sometimes take longer to make their decisions because they are considering so many other things. And we're seeing more support for Hillary. I think they're going to...
SANCHEZ: You know, there's a lot of people watching our news cast right now, turning to their wives or spouses and saying, see, I told you.
GOOD: Well, you're definitely going to see it when it comes to Pennsylvania. Now, I know you all identified me as a Hillary supporter, I am.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GOOD: And we have a women's business magazine. Our whole goal is to see women become more successful in whatever area it is that they...
SANCHEZ: Do you think this trend is going to continue these late deciders for Hillary by the way.
GOOD: I think we're going to see increasing momentum on her. I really, really do. I think women, when it comes to the woman's vote; there are more women who have been voting in every presidential election than man since 1980. And I think that if she can continue to add on to this momentum, it will really help her. If she can connect with the women, the women absolutely can sway this election.
SANCHEZ: Let's do this. Let's talk a little more now about the big race. The winner in Wyoming of course is Barack Obama in this case. And when you talk about Barack Obama, you start to realize that in actual reality, he's only picking up, what, how many delegates in this case? Seven that Obama captured? Seven is golden at this point, but that means that there were also four picked up by Hillary Clinton and that's important to her as well.
Including yesterday's results, CNN now estimates that Obama has 1,527 delegates. Hillary Clinton by our count has 1,428. To win the Democratic nomination, a candidate needs 2025 total delegates and no, it doesn't seem like they're going to be able to get there without the help of the super delegates.
So here's a look ahead now to Democratic race. First, let's go to Mississippi. That's Tuesday. That's important. 33 delegates at stake. Barack Obama is the apparent favorite there. Everyone from Russell Simmons to the governor of Kansas has been down there south campaigning on his behalf. The next big prize is next month. That would be Pennsylvania, April 22nd. This one is really big. 158 delegates are at stake.
Hillary Clinton is thought to have the edge. Here she's spending time in the state tomorrow and Tuesday. That's interesting. Not in Mississippi. Bill Clinton showing up there on Tuesday we're told as well. So what's next?
In Mississippi, that's Tuesday for Democrats and Republicans. It's a state that really has to make a difference and people there had been coming out as well. Sean Callebs has been following this for us. And he's joining us now to fill us in on what's going on.
Sean, I guess the question is why the expectation is so high for Barack Obama.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a couple of things. I talked to political science professor who has really got his thing on polls down here and he says there are great calls. The blue-collar Republicans. These are people he said who work with dirt under their fingernails who for years now have voted for the GOP.
But now they are finding themselves -- they find they have more in common with the Democrats. And right now, they are looking to Barack Obama because he's done such a good job of energizing new voters out there. Getting so many people involve. Secondly, look at the people who are registered Democrats in this state. About 70 percent of them are African-Americans. So Rick, even Obama's camp says, look, that plays into our hands. That is where we look very strong right now. Yes, the polls do show that we are doing well but we're not going to believe anything until the results are final on Tuesday.
SANCHEZ: But how telling is the fact that Hillary Clinton hasn't had a strong presence there at least physically and that on Tuesday, she's supposed to be in Pennsylvania?
CALLEBS: I think that she would take issue with what you just said. She was here Thursday. She was here Friday. Bill Clinton made four stops yesterday beginning at dawn basically and winding up late last night in the middle of the state. Four stops. And she is not conceding anything in this state even though the polls show that she is trailing. She points to Wyoming.
Look, she was supposed to get blown out there. In the end, seven delegates for Barack, four for her, and one undecided. If she can get that kind of momentum going here, even though the other goal states, except for Florida and Arkansas have gone for Obama. If she does well here, then she feels on the momentum that she got in Ohio and Texas. SANCHEZ: Good reporting, Sean. We thank you. Well, hope you can keep us up to date on this one. It's going to be fun to follow right here, Tuesday, Mississippi.
All right, Clinton-Obama, Obama-Clinton. Could the two candidates exist on one ticket? Is it a scenario that's becoming more likely? And actually, who needs it more. It's another question that's important.
And then later, a major terror plot foiled in China. And this is about the Olympics folks. The run down continues it just a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. In case you're wondering where I have been for the last -- oh I don't know, eight months, is that right? Here's a little snapshot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. In the last couple of days, we've been talking about sex. We've been talking about the law and prosecutors with you jingoes. Well, how about a prosecutor who actually cares about those kids.
I mean, that's what make this is so difficult for these firefighters. They need to figure out a way that they can put fire lines down so that the fire stays away from the residents of the area.
I first began reporting on Genarlow Wilson more than a year ago when I heard that he was in prison for 10 years for having sex with another teenager.
There are new developments in the Jena Six that involve the KKK and a neo-Nazi group. This is getting ugly.
Mr. Phelps, if you will give me just a moment, I would like to ask you not about the law, but about any sense of decency that you may or may not have, by going and doing that at a man's funeral.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Welcome to "Your Money," where we look at how the news of the week affects your wallet. I'm Christine Romans.
SANCHEZ: And I'm Rick Sanchez.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I have news to my panelist by the way. I turned in the keys to my apartment just last week. Can't use it. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: So what is the question? The question is will an Obama-Clinton or a Clinton-Obama ticket, to be fair, be the only way to bring the Democratic ticket back together again. Or after the convention, maybe just before the convention, if the party ends up as divided as some say it might? And is it presumptuous for one side to put themselves on top of the ticket at this point? Welcome back to our panelist.
Joining us once again Baoky Vu, Aaron Gould Sheinin, and Cynthia Good. Thanks guys for being here. If it continues like this, is it safe to say -- Cynthia, why don't you start us off on this one. That this may be the only way of bringing this party back together again?
GOOD: Well, I mean, it makes sense. It would be a good way certainly to bring the party together again. I think Hillary maybe is most enthusiastic about this.
SANCHEZ: Why is that?
GOOD: Well, because she's behind.
SANCHEZ: OK.
GOOD: You know, and she's the one who brought it up. She says it's a possibility. He says -- he did not say, absolutely not. He just said it was premature to begin to saying that.
SANCHEZ: Oh but come on, when he says...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Do you buy Obama when -- Barack Obama when he says I'm not interested in being anybody's vice president?
GOULD SHEININ: Well, here's a guy who's only been a senator for one term. I think he wants to have some other conversations. I mean, he doesn't want to talk about this. She's I think being pretty brilliant in this and putting this out there like -- well, when I'm the nominee, you know, we'll have a Clinton-Obama ticket.
SANCHEZ: (INAUDIBLE).
GOULD SHEININ: Right, exactly. She positioned strength. For him, it's almost the exact opposite to be answering questions, well, will you be her vice presidential nominee. You're not going to answer that right now.
SANCHEZ: But you know darn well that if he doesn't win the nomination and he's offered the vice presidency, he would obviously take it, right?
GOULD SHEININ: I don't think that's definitely for sure either. I mean, how does he run for president again in four or eight years? I mean, his campaign now is based on a new fresh face. He's not a Washington insider. He's not part of the problem of the last eight years.
I mean, that goes out the window if you're running as the vice presidential -- sitting vice president for president... SANCHEZ: And you'd think he'd be capable of thinking ahead that much? Baoky, you agree with that? You think that he's offered and he wouldn't take it.
VU: I agree with Aaron right there. If it came down to number two, then Obama may not take it. Now, at first glance, it may seem like Clinton-Obama ticket would be the bring ticket but...
SANCHEZ: It's the place you go before you get promoted to the big job, right?
VU: That's right. Sure. But he's young enough and he has run this campaign based on a platform of change. And I'm not sure how much baggage he was to carry. Now, notwithstanding this, I think what's going to be interesting is further down the road how the Republican VP nominee plays out.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me stop you there, because I want you to watch now who's brokering this thing. You ready? Here's the videotape of Bill Clinton now on stage talking about this possibility.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you look at most of these places, he would win the urban areas and the upscale voters and she wins the traditional rulers that we lost when President Regan was president. If you put those two things together, you have an almost unstoppable force.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What is this? Match maker or let's make a deal?
GOULD SHEININ: Well, you know what, he's talking -- what he means is that the Obama wins in urban areas and Hillary does much better in the rural, more predominantly wide areas. And that bring them together would do this.
SANCHEZ: It would be a good team, right? Just raise your hand if you don't think this would be a good team.
VU: It's going to be a good team for the Republicans just as well.
SANCHEZ: Right.
VU: Because Senator Clinton certainly going to be the polarizing force that bring out GOP voters. And in Obama-Clinton ticket, once the positions get vetted out, then we're going to find out the weaknesses.
SANCHEZ: Who would be most polarizing?
VU: Clinton is going to definitely be more polarizing.
SANCHEZ: Agree? Agree, Cynthia? Who would be the one who needs the other the most.
GOULD SHEININ: I think Hillary needs Obama more than Obama needs Hillary.
SANCHEZ: Hillary needs Obama?
GOULD SHEININ: If Obama is the nominee, Hillary brings I mean, cache she bring Bill Clinton's political mind and experience. But as far as issues and pure politics, I think that you know, she's a target for all Republicans. We all know that.
SANCHEZ: Panel, agree? Everybody agree? Cynthia, that Hillary needs him a little more than he needs her?
GOOD: I think that -- right now, that's the case.
SANCHEZ: We have consensus. Well done, panel. One article in "Rolling Stone" is calling Barack Obama's campaign revolutionary. This is new to me. As it probably will be new to you. The secret to his success may finally be revealed. What is it? We're going to talk to the author.
But next, the Midwest is buried under a white blanket. We're going to tell you if it's going to be getting any thicker.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. As we run down politics and all other news, big breaking news tonight on the possibility of terrorist heading to Olympic Games. It wouldn't be first of course and it certainly in the minds of officials. Let's go to Stephanie Elam now for the very latest on this.
What are we learning about this now, Stephanie?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, you know, Chinese officials say they've stopped two terror plots, including one targeting the Summer Olympics in Beijing. A top communist party official says materials seized in January raid describe the plot as something that was to sabotage the staging of the Olympics. But the official cited no other evidence and early reports on the raid made no mention of Olympic targets.
In a second incident, official say there was an apparent attempt to hijack a Chinese jetliner just like the one shown here but the plane is operating out of Northwest China.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. NUR BEKRI, XINJANG AUTONOMOUS REGION (through translator): From what we presently know, we're sure that this was an attempt to crash the plane. Fortunately, the plane crew discovered and then prevented the act. All the passengers, the plane crew, and the plane itself are all right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ELAM: The incident may support China's argument that extreme measures are needed to ensure the safety of the august Olympics.
All right, bringing things back home here, 20 inches of snow in some spots. Ohio is buried in it. This late-winter snowstorm is in the Midwest. It's record breaking for the city of Columbus. Get this. It shadows a snow fall record set about a century ago. Mini Ohio church services were canceled today because the roads are so bad.
Cleveland Airport was shut down Saturday but reopened today. Of course, as you might expect, there were a lot of delays there. Obviously, there is one person here who knows a lot about the weather and how things are shaping up around the country.
Jackie Jeras, how are things looking right now?
(WEATHER REPORT)
ELAM: That's a lot. Snow, ice, flooding, everything this week. Thanks, Jacqui. All right, that's the latest from here, Rick. Back to you.
SANCHEZ: A reason to maybe call in sick tomorrow, not that they would do that. Thanks, guys.
And then in between the fighting as well. The Democratic campaign puts a woman against an African American man. And here's the question on that one. That's revolutionary in and of itself, right? Well, here is something that may be even more revolutionary. Barack Obama is doing something else. What's his secret to success? We reveal it when we're joined by a "Rolling Stone" journalist.
Also, what is this revolutionary way signal for our future campaigns. Our panelists are raring to go on this one. Here they are. We're running down the stories you don't even know before you go back to work tomorrow. Unless, of course, you call in sick.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez, (INAUDIBLE) by this panel. He's going to be joining us in just a little bit.
I've been talking to them about this magazine that I read before going to bed last night that I was absolutely enthralled by. It's about going for the grassroots online and many were saying that's exactly how Senator Barack Obama gained so much of his momentum. His campaign machine is making big news online social networking sites.
Do you know what that is? A political tool that's big now with young people -- young people who are voting for Barack Obama. The Democratic presidential hopeful graces the cover of the latest "Rolling Stone" magazine. There he is, looking statuesque. A cover article talks about how Obama shattered the top down command and control way of running political campaigns. And the man behind the article is contributing editor Tim Dickinson, who's good enough to join me now.
Tim, thanks so much for being with us. This is a fascinating article. I mean, I come away reading this almost with an understanding of something maybe my kids got but I didn't. Let's start with what you did as a journalist to track this down. Because I don't see anybody else reporting on this.
TIM DICKINSON, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, ROLLING STONE: Well, it's a little hard to cover because in some way it's fairly subtle. But he's done is to marry a web campaign, kind of like we saw in Howard Dean but with all this new Facebook social networking-like tools. And then, he's married back to very traditional precinct walking, door knocking, neighbor to neighbor, community organizing kind of things like he did when he was a young man in Chicago.
SANCHEZ: Let me stop you there. Let me stop you for just a moment. And I really don't mean to interrupt but I think maybe this will help viewers understand us a little bit. Howard Dean got to the people on the Internet, but then didn't seem to know what to do with them. Barack Obama's organization knew exactly what to do with them. Is that right?
DICKINSON: Yes. Well, I mean he's not only raised the kind of money and then far beyond $55 million in February. It's just amazing. But then he uses online organization to get grassroots activists off line working in their neighborhoods, communicating with their neighbors and promoting -- giving them a lot of ownership of the campaign and giving them these web tools that let them do that.
SANCHEZ: It seems brilliant but yet after I read your article I came away with the impression that they don't want this information out there. They didn't want you reporting this.
DICKINSON: Well, I mean, there are -- Howard Dean obviously was quite a phenomenon, but he, you know, didn't go very far.
SANCHEZ: Right
DICKINSON: There had been hesitancy to be the next Howard Dean or be seen in that way. But, you know, I think that they -- what they're doing also is...
SANCHEZ: You mean they didn't want to be an "Internet candidate," quote, unquote.
DICKINSON: Right. I mean, you know, Howard Dean was the Internet, Howard Dean lost. They were working very, you know, tamping down these stories to make sure they didn't come across as the repeat of Howard Dean. But now that they're the first Barack Obama candidacy, I think they're a little bit more open about talking about what they've done.
SANCHEZ: Explain to our viewers. Look, I'll be honest with you. I don't know that much about MySpace. You know, I'm not. Take a shot of our panel. Anybody here got a MySpace ad? Raise your hand.
CYNTHIA GOOD, EDITOR, PINK MAGAZINE: My kids do. My son Alden (ph) does.
SANCHEZ: Your kids do. Thanks, Mom. What it means is that we're all old.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Tim, what I understand is they actually have something called, is it "My Bow" or "My Boo," which is a lot like one of those.
DICKINSON: Right. Well, they actually got one of the founders of Facebook to help them build my.barackobama.com, also called "MyBO." And basically what it is, is that let somebody say you're in Scranton and you're a big Barack Obama guy and you really want to get something going on in Pennsylvania.
Well, you set up a site, you know, Scranton Warriors for Barack Obama and then you invite your friends and then other people can join and before long, you're having meetings, you're having conference calls, you're talking to the organizers within the campaign and you're getting out in your precinct, your neighborhood. You're doing real shoe leather, door-knocking, precinct-walking kind of stuff.
SANCHEZ: Right. And you've reported on this. This is not just a gimmick, right? Because it sounds great. Everybody wants to be, you know, new media or whatever it's called these days.
DICKINSON: Right.
SANCHEZ: But you're here to say that you investigated this and it's actually working. There are boots on the ground?
DICKINSON: Yes. I'm -- you'll see it when the Texas caucus results come in. You'll wonder how it is that he lost the popular vote and then he actually going to end up winning the Texas delegate count. And it's because of this operation.
And so, I fully -- I went to Texas and I sort of fully expected to see something that made my -- you know, I'm a jaded journalist. This rhetoric falls apart. But what I found instead was that, you know, he talks about changing our politics and organizing block by block and that's exactly what's happening on the ground.
SANCHEZ: That's unbelievable. Using the Internet and campaigning through social networking.
Tim Dickinson, Rolling Stone. Fascinating article. As were a couple of the others I read last night. Good stuff as usual. Thanks for being with us.
DICKINSON: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: So, is that how Barack Obama has actually worked the web to his, you know, advantage, and are his rivals going to be following suit? I mean, as you guys were listening to that conversation, if I've been under a rock somewhere? I didn't know about this. AARON GOULDON SHEININ, ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION REPORTER: Yes. I think you've been under a rock because yes they're all doing it. There are more programs and more tools on the Internet to organize, to get together than --
SANCHEZ: Yes, but its one thing to have the tools to do it. It's another to be able to do it this successfully. He's out- caucused, it seems, everyone using this.
GOULDON SHEININ: Yes. I mean, there's no question. If you go to some place like Facebook, you'll find that he has more supporters on Facebook than any other candidates.
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's what I mean. I didn't mean that I didn't know that there was a Facebook. I mean, that one politician could amass all these things together as a social networking tool and put it into a campaign. Has anybody else ever done that?
SHEININ: Well, actually, you know, I think you've got to go back. They talked about Howard Dean. And they always say he was sort of revolutionary in 2004. But John McCain is known as being the first real candidate to harness the Internet back in 2000. He sort of laid the groundwork. He was very pioneering in raising money off the Internet.
SANCHEZ: But there's some questions about this and I think one of them might be, the fact that he's doing this, does it mean he's really good at campaigning but doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be really good at being a president?
Think about that for a minute. Hold your thoughts because we're coming back in just a little bit to pick up on this conversation. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We're talking about the Obama machinery and how "Rolling Stone" magazine has actually revealed what the secret is to this machinery that we've been talking about. They call it "New Hope." But there's actually so much, much more to it than that.
Aaron, you were mentioning just a moment ago, that it's not just about the Internet. I mean, people can look at this and say, Oh, yes, so what, he's using the Internet. So what is using networking sites? It's more like how he's put them all together, right?
GOULDON SHEININ: Right. And what they're done is they've taken this information by going in from the Internet. Then people sign up these surveys. They fill out this demographic information about who you are, what you do, where you live.
And then they take that information. And they distribute it to these grassroots workers who go out into these neighborhoods. They have these small house parties, they call them, with ten or 12 people to, I guess, to get to know Obama. What he's about and then they go out and they do it again. It's like doing a commercial. They talk 10 friends and they talk 10 friends and it sort of escalates.
SANCHEZ: Well, why didn't the other guys do it? Why didn't Romney do it? Why didn't Giuliani do it? Why didn't, you know, McCain and Hillary do it?
BAOKY N. VU, W.H.ADVISORY CMTE. ON ASIAN AFFAIRS: The Bush- Cheney campaign of old was extremely effective than this. Moreso, on a fundraising basis. So I don't think --
SANCHEZ: Right. The Republicans have done this in the south.
VU: That's right. That's right.
SANCHEZ: But not with social networking sites?
VU: No, no. And I think that it's being pushed. Now, I will tell you this. The Internet is such a disruptive force the way that the steam engine and the (INAUDIBLE) was, to the effect that now its going -- right now, it's being looked upon as the opportunity to fulfill all other needs.
SANCHEZ: Well, that's an interesting point you make because here's what comes to mind. Will every other campaign have this machinery in it or some aspect of this machinery in it in the future?
Cynthia?
CYNTHIA GOOD, EDITOR, PINK MAGAZINE: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the entire political process has been transformed by technology and the way that we're using it today. Especially, the way that the young people are using it today, which I think that plays in so well to Obama.
But for the first time, we are seeing that voters are able to actually have a dialogue with a candidate. It's not just the candidates speaking to the voters. It's the voters speaking back to them.
SANCHEZ: In this system, as described in this article, that's exactly what it does and it tells them, form your own organization. You're independent of us. Tell us when you need us and we'll be there for you. It's kind of interesting.
But here's the question that comes to mind as we have this discussion on this. And it has to do with, OK, brilliant plan. We all agree? Brilliant machinery to get someone elected. Does that mean that he's a great president or will be a great president?
GOOD: Well, it shows that he's clever. It shows that he's clever. It shows that he's plugged in. It shows that he is technologically literate.
SANCHEZ: Will some people look at this and say, he kind of cheated.
GOULDON SHEININ: Cheated? SANCHEZ: Yes. He used something that hasn't been used before. He's the first one to use it. So to a certain extent, it had less to do with his know how and his capability to be president than more to do with his technological savvy.
GOULDON SHEININ: Yes. But these people that they connect with, if they didn't believe in what he was talking about, his message, they still wouldn't come back and vote for him. I mean, that's the ultimate arbiter, right? Is what happens when they go into that booth? If he can get these people who are hooked on to the Internet and hook into Facebook to get out to the voting place and pull that lever for him. So I mean, I find that hard to...
SANCHEZ: So, it's not just the technology?
GOULD SHEININ: No, not at all.
SANCHEZ: It's using the technology to get in to the people, but then when you get in front of them, you still have to impress them and they have to impress you back.
SANCHEZ: Sure.
VU: Well, right now because the media has pretty much given it a free pass, then certainly...
SANCHEZ: What do you mean by that?
VU: Well, I don't think the media and --
SANCHEZ: You mean this "Rolling Stone" article and everything?
VU: Sure. Sure.
SANCHEZ: That would mesmerized by that.
VU: Overall, we've been mesmerized by the machine.
SANCHEZ: Isn't that mesmerizing though?
VU: Well, it can be. But I think for those of us who are going to go into the polls and be the ultimate bar arbiter based on issues and ideas, then the more -- certainly, Senator Obama...
SANCHEZ: You're saying he's all show, no go?
VU: All style, no substance.
SANCHEZ: You're saying?
VU: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I notice I had to help you there.
VU: Yes.
SANCHEZ: You were afraid.
VU: Well, the other issue I'll tell you is that it's going to have its risk, the same way that Senator George Allen's campaign was torpedoed by the video about him calling a gentleman on the Senator Webb's campaign name.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me stop you there. This has already happened. There was an incident I think in Texas, where one of these social networking sites that was supporting Barack Obama had a Che Guevara banner up and it came into question as to whether or not, well, here you have volunteers and supporters of Barack Obama who are also supporters of Che Guevara.
And that could be embarrassing when you don't have the direct control that most traditional campaigns have, right?
GOULDON SHEININ: I mean, obviously it became an issue because I think it was a Fox News did a piece on that and they had to talk about that and the Obama campaign had to respond. And then -- but the group themselves, there was -- had that office space. You know, put out a statement, we are completely volunteer organization. We are not, you know, officially affiliated with the Obama campaign and all.
So yes. I mean, there's all kinds of those kind of dangers. Any time you have any kind of free agent, if you can't control every last aspect of the campaign, then there's always going to be issues like that. But the flip side is, if you do try and exert that kind of control, then you're going to be monolithic, you're going to be unwieldy and you're not going to able to respond.
SANCHEZ: Well, good or bad. It's fascinating to see a new tool that's being used in campaigning and it certainly seems to be revealed that way, at least in this "Rolling Stone" article.
A lot more to talk about. Talking to hostile foreign leaders, is that really so bad? So, why shouldn't a U.S. President talk to Hugo Chavez or Raul Castro, tagged dictator, no matter what they say? We take that question up with our panel in just a little bit.
After the real summit that just concluded in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Also, a bar owner says he's advertised special was meant to drum up business, but accusations of racism have helped him drum up controversy. You're not going to believe what he's actually saying with one of his drinks. This one's kind of personal.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: This is one of the most insane and heart-wrenching stories that we've covered around here in a long time. It has to do with deaths of some coeds. And Stephanie Elam is joining us now to bring us up-to-date on this story.
What's going on? What's the latest on this, Steph? STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, an unbelievably harsh week for two southern universities here, Rick. An entire university, an entire North Carolina town shared a moment of reflection and grief.
This sad silence just before the start of a North Carolina Chapel Hill basketball game in memory of Eve Carson. The student body president shot dead last week near campus. Police still have no suspect, but are working a lead on someone they call a "person of interest."
And the snow has stopped falling in Cincinnati and Columbus and Cleveland. These pictures are from several hours ago. But the clean up and the clear out and the "what do we do with all of this snow?" That part still remains big time.
Ohio Airport all have a backlog of passengers to deal with and nothing is going to start melting until Tuesday. Oh, that looks like a lot going on there. Of course, some people may have flights tomorrow to catch, Jacqui?
(WEATHER REPORT)
ELAM: Definitely some good advice. All right. Thanks, Jacqui.
Let's go to a dust up here, from coming out of Pennsylvania. An owner of a bar there, which is popular with the college crowd is catching some heat for some offending -- for offending several students here. And here is why.
The Garage Door Saloon is near the University of Pittsburgh, has midweek special called, quote, "Wet Back Wednesday." That's right, "Wet Back Wednesday." That's when the bar offers marked down tacos and Mexican beer. Passersby and students are urging patrons to boycott the bar, comparing the language on the signs to be inward. The bar owner says he doesn't see the harm and that people are over reacting.
I had to read that story a couple of times. I just couldn't believe it, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Yes. He is chinning (ph), chinning (ph) himself all the way to the bank while he's saying it. Shouldn't be a dust up about it. Thanks so much, Stephanie. We certainly appreciate it.
Talking to the enemy. Will our next president do it or should he or she? Our panel tackles that. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's important. I just came back from covering the real summit in the Dominican Republic, where Latin American leaders, literally. I've never quite seen anything like this.
Getting in each other's faces, calling each other's names, and insulting each other. These are presidents of country. Sitting on a -- like we're sitting right now. But after it was all said and done, they came up with an accord to avoid a military conflict between Columbia and Ecuador, which has been in the news, which is why we were covering, that could seriously escalated.
After seeing that for myself, I wondered why the United States, perhaps, doesn't do this type of thing. Why we don't see our leaders perhaps going face-to-face with leaders of other countries. We're bringing it up because we already know that it's become a campaign issue during the debates, several times, as a matter of fact.
So our panel comes back into this. And Baoky, I know that you're -- you're ready and gunning for this conversation. Tell me why Barack Obama was wrong when he said this. Show this, if you could.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would. And the reason is this that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them, which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration is ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Why is he wrong?
VU: Well, the United States is uniquely perceived to be the beacon of hope for all freedom-loving peoples of the world. And we simply cannot afford to appease and cuddle dictators and rogue regimes. The price of appeasement, I think, is way too high and I know this firsthand, being of South Vietnamese descent.
The South Vietnamese government lost the war in 1975 simply because the South Vietnamese government along with our U.S. ally attempt to endlessly negotiate peace negotiations with the North Vietnamese Communist and in the end, they invaded our country. So I don't think we can ever afford to negotiate with dictators and rogue regimes.
SANCHEZ: Is talking to someone, even if you disagree with them, Aaron or Cynthia, is getting in their faces and saying, I think you're crazy, I think you're a dictator, is that coddling?
GOOD: Well, you know, I think that one thing that we're seeing -- I mean, even Hillary Clinton has said she absolutely would not sit down with the ruler of Cuba unless certain actions were taken like...
SANCHEZ: Raul.
GOOD: Right. The release of political prisoners, opening up the economy. But I think what we're seeing is people are really siding, I believe, with Obama in this sense just because I think there's so much frustration with the existing administration and the hardline stance of the Bush administration has taken. And I really think that it comes down to the broader the compassion, the bigger the vote.
SANCHEZ: Aaron, is that right? Are we seeing a change in the waters in this regard?
GOULD SHEININ: I think we have to remember too that the Obama campaign had to step back a little bit from that, and that was sort of a mini-controversy.
SANCHEZ: And McCain called it naive.
GOULD SHEININ: Right, exactly. And I think what he ultimately settled on was that, of course, we would have envoys to do legwork ahead of time. We will just sit down, willy-nilly, with Raul Castro or whoever else.
SANCHEZ: Preconditions, they're called.
GOULD SHEININ: Correct. Because I think the danger that the McCain campaign and others, you know, may be rightfully raised is will it be used as propaganda against the U.S. back in those other countries? Will we be playing into their hands, in that sense?
SANCHEZ: But should we categorically deny conversations with anyone who we regard as our enemy. As we have done in this country for the good many decades now?
GOOD: Well, the question is, has that been precisely what's gotten us into some of the conflicts that maybe could have been resolved without resorting to war?
SANCHEZ: And maybe why some report that our world opinion of us is not very high right now.
VU: Well, I'll tell you, I take one step back and say that the stance that the Bush administration has taken towards North Korea is paying dividends. The stance towards Venezuela is beginning to pay dividends because the longer Hugo Chavez shows his true colors, the more...
SANCHEZ: But allow me because we're running out of time to disagree with you at least in terms of what I saw as a journalist covering this last summit. It seems to me that Hugo Chavez, at least in Latin America, has been able to coalesce a group of other countries who are turning to the left and admiring him, perhaps even more than the United States. And I'm speaking of Argentina; I'm speaking of Ecuador; I'm speaking of Nicaragua. That's an awful lot of -- it's a big consortium that wasn't there in the past.
VU: Sure. But the leaders, they may be coalescing around Hugo Chavez but increasingly you're beginning to see the internal dissension within Venezuela itself. Last year, Mr. Chavez wins reelection. He thought he could push the socialist policies down the throats of his people and they came back and...
SANCHEZ: It's a good point, it's a good point, and they're hurting him in that sense.
Guys, thanks so much for being with us. Excellent show. Excellent conversation. I'm Rick Sanchez. Thanks so much for being with us as well. And we'll see you again here for the rundown next weekend.
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