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Nancy Grace
Fed Wiretap Nabs Spitzer Hiring High-Priced Hooker
Aired March 10, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Dinner at a ritzy restaurant in D.C., $200. First-class Acela train, New York to the capital, $400. Having high-priced hooker, couple of thousand. Your political career and your freedom? Priceless. Usually, hiring a hooker gets you about a $300 fine, if that. But New York governor/tough guy crime fighter Eliot Spitzer is looking at 10 years on federal charges revolving around alleged repeated assignations with a hooker, all cash.
But tonight, a federal investigation of the so-called Emperors Club VIP prostitution ring is set to land Governor Spitzer in a multi-count indictment. The crime itself aside, Spitzer built his career on cleaning up corruption, always a straight arrow. Tonight, five diamonds takes on a whole new meaning as it is revealed Spitzer`s hookers were rated one to seven diamonds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The New York Times" reports New York`s Democratic governor, Eliot Spitzer, admitted to his staff today that he was involved in a prostitution ring. He was caught on a federal wiretap.
GOV. ELIOT SPITZER (D), NEW YORK: I have acted in a way that violates my obligations to my family and that violates my or any sense of right and wrong. I apologize first and importantly to my family. I apologize to the public, whom I promised better.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The New York Times" headline linking New York governor Eliot Spitzer to a prostitution ring was so shocking, New York reporters at first thought it was a joke. Spitzer, a father of three daughters, took no questions and said he would report back "in short order." Two sources with knowledge of the investigation tell CNN that the New York governor allegedly met with a prostitute in a Washington hotel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Met with a prostitute? That`s putting perfume on a pig, met with a prostitute.
And tonight: A beautiful, 22-year-old president of the UNC Chapel Hill student body last seen 1:30 AM doing home work, 5:00 AM shots fired, 22- year-old Eve Carson found dead in an intersection near campus, multiple gunshot wounds.
Tonight: Grainy surveillance video reveals photos of a person of interest driving Carson`s Toyota Highlander and using her ATM card. Tonight: Bombshell. Police announce a second mystery person also caught on tape. And tonight: Eerie similarities 400 miles away, the mystery surrounding the shooting death of yet another gorgeous young coed, Auburn University. A 911 call leads police off campus to find 18-year-old Lauren Burk lying on the side of the road just before the young girl dies. Moments later, Burk`s 2001 Honda Civic found on campus engulfed in flames. Tonight: Details emerge after the prime suspect confesses to murder, that perp linked to a string of other attacks at gunpoint across Georgia and Alabama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say two people may have been involved in the killing of a UNC Chapel Hill student in North Carolina. In fact, the student body president, Eve Carson, is the victim. Here`s an enhanced photo taken at a cash machine on the night Carson was killed, with the driver using her ATM card. Police say it looks like there`s an outline of another person in the back seat. Police say Carson was shot in the right temple, execution-style. Her body was found lying in the street only a mile from the UNC Chapel Hill campus.
The Alabama man facing charges in the death of an Auburn University student in court today. Courtney Lockhart (ph) is accused of killing 18- year-old Lauren Burk, who was found shot near the campus last Tuesday. Lockhart`s mother said her son is an Iraq war veteran who hasn`t been the same since coming home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry for that family! I`m sorry! I`m just sorry. I (INAUDIBLE) have nothing else to say. I`m just sorry for the loss of that family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also tonight, breaking developments in the case of a missing 23-year-old mom Stacy Peterson, vanishing upscale Chicago suburbs, husband/cop Drew Peterson the prime suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance, the suspicious bathtub drowning of Peterson`s third wife officially ruled homicide.
Tonight: Once again, Drew Peterson makes the scene to discover evidence. This time, it`s his third wife`s missing will.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While Kathleen Savio was divorcing Drew Peterson, she didn`t have a will, according to her lawyer, Harry Smith.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever ask her about a will, to your recollection?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did she say she had one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Smith`s claims are true, it raises many questions about the validity of the will, the same attorney claiming Peterson`s missing fourth wife, Stacy, talked to him about divorce just 48 hours before she disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did contact me for information regarding a dissolution of marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight. A federal investigation of the so-called Emperors Club VIP prostitution ring set to land New York governor Eliot Spitzer a multi-count federal indictment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPITZER: Over the past nine years, eight years as attorney general and one as governor, I tried to uphold a vision of progressive politics that would rebuild New York and create opportunity for all. We sought to bring real change to New York, and that will continue.
Today, I want to briefly address a private matter. I have acted in a way that violates my obligations to my family and that violates my or any sense of right and wrong. I apologize first and most importantly to my family. I apologize to the public, whom I promised better.
I do not believe that politics in the long run is about individuals. It is about ideas, the public good and doing what is best for the state of New York. But I have disappointed and failed to live up to the standard I expected of myself.
I must now dedicate some time to regain the trust of my family. I will not be taking questions. Thank you very much. I will report back to you in short order. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Report back to us in short order to say what? Let`s go out to Charlie Hurt with the Washington bureau. He`s the chief there of "The New York Post." Charlie, bring us up to date.
CHARLIE HURT, "NEW YORK POST": Well, as your lead-in indicated, Eliot Spitzer came into Albany just a year ago, little more than a year ago, as the sort of Eliot Ness figure, crime fighter, had brought down all of these great tycoons on Wall Street, and today, find himself on the other -- the on the other side of things and in a whole lot of trouble. It has all the classic makings of a true tragedy. And it`s -- you know, it`s only a matter of days, I imagine, or at least that`s the speculation, before we kind of know where it goes from here.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Glenn Schuck with 1010 WINS radio. What exactly do we know tonight?
GLENN SCHUCK, 1010 WINS: Well, what we do know tonight is that Governor Spitzer is talking with his family, talking with his aides. There have been reports since he spoke this afternoon about if he will resign and when. I think it is a matter of when...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wa-wa-wait! I`m not endorsing anybody for governor or any other political position because, in my opinion, they`re all lying. But let me think. Do the names Larry Craig come to mind, possibly Bill Clinton? They survived. They dug in. You couldn`t drag them out of office! Why should he resign? Who`s going to make him resign?
SCHUCK: Well, I have to tell you, New York City today, I spoke with dozens of people. And this is a very Democratic city, probably five to one. And the public is very upset about this. They`re angry. They trusted him when he sat out there on January 1 in Albany saying, I`m going to be the one who brings change to Albany, ethics to Albany. And they feel he completely lied and has just flip-flopped and is a hypocrite. The people I talked to today, Democrats who voted for Eliot Spitzer say they want him out of office. And this is dozens of people I spoke with on the street.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got to say -- to Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychoanalyst and author -- give me a sinner over a hypocrite any day. I`ll tell you right up front, I`m a sinner. There`s no doubt about it. But he is caught -- he`s between a rock and hard spot, Robi.
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: He absolutely is because he was hired to be someone who was ethical, and that`s what he claimed to be. And clearly, he`s not. So that`s a problem. And I think he should step down. He owes it to his public.
GRACE: To Rachel in New York. Hi, Rachel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My husband and I have to just say we love your show. We watch it every night.
GRACE: Thank you. What do you think about Spitzer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s sickening. I am absolutely appalled by this. I want to know what kind of charges can actually be brought against him because this is not just prostitution, this is human trafficking, and it is absolutely sickening that he would be involved in that. I don`t care about some of the other crap that`s involved with this, but just for our governor, someone who would be a prosecutor, to be involved in this kind of illegal behavior is sickening.
GRACE: Well, you know, here is a fine -- and let me reiterate, very fine -- line between what Clinton did and what Spitzer did. Clinton had an affair, OK? He didn`t break the law, as we know it. That`s a very, very fine distinction.
Daniel Gross, "Moneybox" columnist with "Slate" magazine. Let`s answer Rachel`s question. What are the actual charges? What is he looking at?
DANIEL GROSS, SLATE.COM: Because he chose to do this while he was in Washington, he exposed himself to a whole different level of potential charges. If he had simply remained in New York and engaged the services of a prostitute, he would have been subject to New York laws. Now he`s subject to the Mann Act, which is a -- you know, an old, long-standing law against trafficking people across state lines for immoral purposes. It`s almost a century old. And that brings down a -- obviously, the Justice Department instead of the New York state law authorities.
I`ve seen things written about sentences of up to 10 years for something like that. In addition, I believe he`s probably exposed to some tax issues, as well, because this all got started as an investigation into moving large amounts of cash around. You know, when people -- when people move cash around, banks have to report it. And if people are routinely transacting $9,000, under this $10,000 limit, that raises the attention of the authorities. And from some of the reports I`ve read, that`s what led to this investigation of this prostitution ring. They were looking at his movement of money.
GRACE: So Daniel, are you telling me that the whole investigation regarding this prostitution ring was based on Spitzer moving lots of money in and out of accounts?
GROSS: This is what ABC News has reported. The report is up on their Web site. I`m sorry to mention a competitor, but they have the story, that, you know, this investigation got started as a result of people looking into the money that was moving around and realized...
GRACE: By Spitzer?
GROSS: ... it was moving into this prostitution business. And then it rebounded back about him because he was caught in a wiretap.
GRACE: Now, are you saying that they were specifically looking at Spitzer moving money around, or people in general moving large amounts of money around?
GROSS: I think people in general.
GRACE: And then Spitzer...
GROSS: ... and he was one of the people...
GRACE: ... got caught up in it.
GROSS: ... who was moving money around.
GRACE: To Glenn Schuck with 1010 WINS radio. Glenn, is there any suggestion that Spitzer was targeted? Because, you know, frankly, Glenn, just as Daniel Gross mentioned the penalty in New York and most jurisdictions, hiring a hooker, you don`t do any jail time. You pay a fine, if that. Typically, the johns, or let me say the customers, to use the euphemism, get nothing and the hooker might do one night in jail. Here we`re looking at 10 years, 10 possible years behind bars on the Mann Act, Glenn Schuck.
SCHUCK: Well, let`s compare this to charges against Bernard Kerik. I think what you have, as a public official, is betrayed the public trust.
GRACE: Yes.
SCHUCK: And I think United States attorneys don`t like that, as you probably know. And they`re going to maybe step it up a little bit more and try to make an example out of him. And I think that`s what`s happening here. And this guy is nicknamed the "steamroller" for the way he handles his way. And he`s made enemies in Albany, and maybe it`s some of those enemies that he`s -- that have been behind this in bringing this forward. Who knows.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Melissa in North Carolina. Hi, Melissa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy!
GRACE: Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to say that I love your show and I love you, and I think you`re just an empowerment to women.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And congratulations on your babies.
GRACE: Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. What do you think about Spitzer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I just think he`s just so gross! But I just have a comment. Like, all these women that -- I mean, this has happened to several other people in politics. Why can`t these wives just stand up and say, Hey, I`ve had enough. I`m not going to stay with you. I`m not going to support you on this. I just don`t understand.
GRACE: Robi Ludwig, why?
LUDWIG: Well, I think wives -- you know, they devote their lives to their husbands, and it`s a lot easier said than done. It becomes part of their identity. Some women can do it a lot easier than others.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lawyers. Let`s unleash them. Joining us, Holly Hughes out of Atlanta, Randy Zelin, New York, Daniel Horowitz, San Francisco.
Daniel, welcome back. Question regarding the trafficking requirement in the Mann Act. What is subjecting Spitzer to very, very serious charges with serious jail time in the penitentiary is the possibility of the Mann Act. It has been used. The other possible defendants in this case are also looking at the Mann Act, it`s just not Spitzer. But the people have to be trafficked, in other words, cross state lines for an illegal purpose.
But what does trafficking mean? I mean, going and taking the first- class Acela, sitting back and have somebody bring you a drink -- I hardly envision that as trafficking.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, it`s meant to give the feds jurisdiction over what is normally just a state crime. And theoretically, the act is to protect women who are very poor, exploited, and moved maybe from foreign countries and traveled -- traveled around to avoid detection and that they`re exploited. It`s almost a type of slavery that the act is intended to protect against. Eliot Spitzer had a hands-on transaction for money with somebody who bargained as an equal. It`s totally an abuse of the Mann Act to go after Eliot Spitzer.
GRACE: Zelin?
RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If I knew how to whistle, I would go and I would call time out. We`re all forgetting something. There is really no evidence right now that Governor Spitzer called someone who was in state A and said, Please meet me in state B.
GRACE: Oh, really?
ZELIN: Without that...
GRACE: Have you -- have you read the complaint?
ZELIN: I have only read "The Times" article. Every place else that...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I advise you to read the whole thing because in this complaint -- see where I personally have it yellowed right here? It talks how he`s going to pay for her ticket, client number nine. If he is, in fact, client number nine, which has to be proven, whoever client number nine is, paying some high-priced hooker to go from New York to Washington to snug up in what we believe to be the Mayflower Hotel, had the key waiting there, and about four minutes after Spitzer gets into the hotel, he`s up in the room. So somebody, whoever client nine is, is paying for her Acela train to D.C. Thoughts?
ZELIN: How many client number nines ever get charged in a Mann Act...
GRACE: Oh, so that`s your fall-back?
ZELIN: ... let alone in a local case?
GRACE: Since I just got you over the barrel...
ZELIN: This is a payback.
GRACE: ... on your first argument -- OK, political payback.
ZELIN: Political.
GRACE: It`s a conspiracy. OK. Good to know it. Holly Hughes, weigh in.
HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: First of all, this guy deserves the Marion Barry dunce award, Nancy. He`s running around, talking about everybody else being corrupt, and the first thing he does is go hire a prostitute. They`ve got him on federal wiretap. They`re probably going to be able to trace the money. I mean, we all remember Marion Barry. He got reelected! He was caught with a prostitute and crack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPITZER: I have acted in a way that violates my obligations to my family and that violates my or any sense of right and wrong. I apologize first and most importantly to my family. I apologize to the public, whom I promised better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Spitzer, a father of three daughters, took no questions and said he would report back "in short order." Two sources with knowledge of the investigation tell CNN that the New York governor allegedly met with a prostitute in a Washington hotel. The charges are especially shocking since the New York Democrat had built a reputation fighting corruption on Wall Street while he served as attorney general. "Time" magazine even called him "crusader of the year." His political star rose when he was elected in 2006.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And this is not just a hooker walking up and down the street that you might see on Broadway. Apparently, this is a prostitution ring that spans from New York to LA, Paris, London.
Out to Don Crutchfield, private investigator and author. He`s joining us from LA. Don, thank you for being with us. With a prostitution ring at this level, how do you crack it?
DON CRUTCHFIELD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, I got to tell you, I got some real problems with this. First of all, I know how they did it. They flipped a prostitute, and then they did an undercover sting operation on it.
But if I`m going to run an international prostitution organization, I`m going to be a little leery of having one of my clients and assigning him customer number nine, a guy who`s known as a crusader, unless I`ve got some assurances. Now, from what I understand, he meets this hooker in the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, D.C. She gave a report to her boss saying there was no problems or anything, Paid me $4,300 by a credit card.
Now -- what we hear before is, number nine is a little bit of a problem because he owes money. Now, that tells me that he`s more than just a regular john because in order to establish credit with an outfit like this, you got to be a pretty good customer and there`s got to be some assurances you`re not going to get burned. So I think there`s a lot more to this that needs to be looked into. I got some real problems with this one.
GRACE: Well -- back to Glenn Schuck with 1010 WINS. It`s my understanding that everything Don just said is correct, except I think he was doing cash transactions.
SCHUCK: Yes, I didn`t hear the credit card part. You`re right, Nancy. I haven`t heard that. I heard cash transactions with this woman who`s been named Kristen for a two-hour liaison at that hotel. Again, I had heard it was paid in cash and not credit card.
GRACE: Very quickly, everyone, to tonight`s "Case Alert," the search for a beloved couple with ties to Atlanta and South Carolina who vanished into thin air. Business exec John Calvert and his attorney wife Elizabeth last seen on Monday evening at a meeting in Harbour Town, South Carolina, where they live. The pair never made it to work the next day, police combing the Calverts` 2006 silver Mercedes found abandoned, Hilton Head, South Carolina. If you have information -- take a look -- call the Beaufort County police 843-842-4111.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPITZER: I do not believe that politics in the long run is about individuals. It is about ideas, the public good, and doing what is best for the state of New York. But I have disappointed and failed to live up to the standard I expected of myself. I must now dedicate some time to regain the trust of my family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Eliot Spitzer tonight looking at possible prosecution under the Mann Act for prostitution, taking some one across state lines for that purpose.
Back to Charlie Hurt with "The New York Post" in the Washington bureau. Charlie, question. Did Spitzer prosecute prostitution when he was an AG?
HURT: He sure did. And of course, it didn`t take long for a lot of the quotes that -- from him back then to surface, where he was expressing such deep moral outrage about the -- the crime. But of course, the mainstay of his prosecution was going after Wall Street, you know, tycoons and people who were bilking investors and things like that. That`s where - - and of course, you know, across America today, in white-collar prisons, there are inmates dancing over this turn-about.
GRACE: When we come back, everyone, grainy surveillance photos emerge of a person of interest in the shooting death of 22-year-old UNC coed Eve Carson, while prime suspect in the death of Auburn University coed 18-year- old Lauren Burk confesses to murder.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives may be, in fact, looking for two suspects in Carson`s death. If you take a really close look at the photograph, the man photographed here using her ATM card. Police think there is a -- second person, apparently in the back seat partially hidden. The surveillance photo shows the SUV, police say it could have belonged to Carson.
Burk, the Auburn University student, who was gunned down last week. 23-year-old Courtney Lockheart was arrested late Friday and is now charged with killing the 18-year-old freshman.
In a tearful interview the suspect`s mother said her son is an Iraq war veteran. He also offered her condolences to the Burk family.
CATHERINE WILLIAMS, SUSPECT`S MOTHER: I never thought that he would do this. I never -- never thought.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Developments in both cases. I`m talking about University of North Carolina and Auburn, where two young co-eds found shot to death in eerily similar circumstances.
Out to Elizabeth White joining us with -- from WTVM. She`s there at the Lee County courthouse there in Auburn.
Elizabeth, what`s the latest on your end?
ELIZABETH WHITE, REPORTER, WTVM: Well, Nancy we have chilling new details tonight in the murder of 18-year-old Auburn University freshman. Basically those details are coming from the mouth of her accused killer, 23-year-old Courtney Lockheart.
Now during his first court appearance today it was revealed to us that when Lockheart was arrested on Friday he basically waived his rights and decided to make a statement to police. In that statement he tells investigators on Tuesday he saw Lauren Burk, forced her into her car while on the campus of Auburn University, robbed her, then drove her around, and forced her to take off all of her clothes. He then admits to shooting her, driving her car back to Auburn University, where he then admits to setting it on fire.
Now police tell me a gun found in his possession on Friday during his arrest has been tested by the Alabama Department of Forensic Scientists and it is indeed the gun that was used to kill Lauren Burk.
Tonight Lockheart faces three capital murder charges for murder during a kidnapping, murder during a robbery, and murder during an attempted rape. Nancy?
GRACE: Elizabeth, what is the mode of the death penalty there in Alabama? Is it the electric chair, lethal injection, hanging, shooting? What is it?
WHITE: It is lethal injection. The electric chair, known as yellow mama here in the state of Alabama, was retired several years ago. Now it is lethal injection.
GRACE: Out to our Gurnal Scott with WPTF Radio, joining us in Raleigh, North Carolina for the latest in the UNC shooting.
What can you tell me, Gurnal?
GURNAL SCOTT, REPORTER, WPTF RADIO: Well, Nancy, we do have some new developments. Police in Chapel Hill have now released two additional surveillance photos of a person of interest in this case who according to Police Chief Brian Curran appears to be the same person that is seen in the surveillance photos used over the weekend.
Now the surveillance photos that released today are in a convenience store. It shows, in one, the suspect, or the person of interest, walking towards the teller machine and a camera, and the second photo shows him looking over the contents of the store.
Now police do believe that this is the person involved in this case because he was trying to use an ATM card that belonged to Eve Carson. Now police are putting this photo out -- and these photos out to see if they can get any more tips. Chief Curran said over the weekend, they`ve have had 200 calls to the local Crime Stoppers offering tips in this case. They`re trying to get every angle they can hoping this is the person that they are looking for. They want to try to identify him and find him.
GRACE: Gurnal, what can you tell me about the possibility of a second perpetrator?
SCOTT: Well, right now what they are looking at is -- they`re also looking at a color enhanced photo that was done by someone out of St. Louis, a photo expert out of St. Louis, that shows a black shadowy figure as it`s being referred to behind the driver side in the photos that were released over the weekend. And they think it may be a shoulder that may indicate that someone was in the back seat of that car that may belong to Eve Carson.
Now the police chief Brian Curran said he didn`t believe it was Carson herself. So he actually thinks and they are going under the assumption that that may be a second person in the back of the car which may indicate, that there may be a second suspect, and also may give away for if that person in the driver`s seat was the person who pulled the trigger, away for the person to get away and of someone else to dispose of the car. They`re looking into that.
GRACE: I want to go to medical examiner, Dr. Howard Adelman.
Doctor, thank you for being with us. Doctor, I want to talk about the Auburn case forensically speaking where we actually have a confession. At this juncture, at the time of his arrest, was it possible to still get DNA linking him to the crime?
DR. HOWARD ADELMAN, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, that would depend if he had blood on his shirt or spatter mark on him. Otherwise, it would be very difficult.
GRACE: But what about under his fingernails?
ADELMAN: Sometimes you can find under the victim`s fingernails. I have not found that very often useful.
GRACE: So you believe in this case it may be too late for any forensic DNA for instance?
ADELMAN: It may well be too late.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Lauren in Utah. Hi, Lauren.
LAUREN, FROM UTAH: Hi, Nancy. I just -- I wanted to tell you thanks so much for never giving up and being a bright light for so many of us.
GRACE: Thank you.
LAUREN: For -- you`re a wonderful human being.
GRACE: Thank you.
LAUREN: In Eve Carson`s death, I just wondered had they determined if there is any gang affiliation?
GRACE: In Eve Carson`s death, she`s talking about the University of North Carolina case.
What about it, Gurnal?
SCOTT: If you remember in the Saturday photos that were released the person in the driver`s seat of the car had on what many people are calling an old school Houston Astros hat. They say in Chapel Hill`s Police Department that they`ve seen that hat worn by members of a gang called the Hoover Crips in the Chapel Hill area and that may indicate that there is some gang activity involved.
However police aren`t confirming that yet. They are trying to find the suspect. And the questions will be asked then. But they are -- they have seemed to indicate that there may be a gang connection in this case.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Holly Hughes, Atlanta, Randy Zelin in New York, Daniel Horowitz, San Francesco.
Daniel Horowitz, you`ve heard the term handing the prosecution a case on the silver platter, I`m talking about the Auburn, Alabama case. What`s your best defense if there is no forensic evidence as Dr. Adelman suggested?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy there`s two aspects to the defense. Do you try to get him out of guilt for the crime? Or try to save his life? Because very often if somebody admits they did a crime and saves the victims` family from going through a trial a jury might tend to spare their life. On the other hand, if he talks in great detail of the killing, almost bragging or with pleasure, it can boomerang on him and put him in the death chair or get him the needle.
In terms of defending him on guilt or innocence you only can go to the mental state of the guy arrested saying he made it up from news reports. But only if that`s true. If it`s not true that`s a stupid defense.
GRACE: Holly Hughes, I mean, the mom is laying it out for us. I don`t think she intended that. The mother of the suspect, she was in a lot of pain when she was apologizing to the victim`s family. But she says he fought in Iraq, 2004 to 2005. There it is.
HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Right. Nancy, you know my heart breaks for her, too, because a lot of times people think it`s just the victims` families. And also the defendant`s families are victimized by this. I mean you see her crying and, you know, saying she`s so, so sorry.
GRACE: Well, Randy Zelin, do you agree? Are we going to have some type of a combat defense here whether it`s true or not?
RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Certainly on the issue of intent, certainly on the issue of capacity or setting up something other than this being a premeditated murder that`s going to get him killed, absolutely.
GRACE: And to Elizabeth White with WTVM, what next?
WHITE: Well, we`re basically hearing -- when I spoke with his mother, Catherine Williams, obviously, she made that tearful apology to the Burk family. Then she said my baby just hasn`t been the same since he got home from Iraq. And we know he`s been home for two years and actually lived with her for two years. But according to police something happened and he just went on a two-state crime spree.
GRACE: Yes, allegations that there are other attacks for which he may have to answer upon.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert" and it is an alert. The search for a 72-year-old Glendale, Arizona woman suffering from Alzheimer`s. Rose Fisher reported missing Sunday afternoon. According to police, she just walked out of her home with only her white kitty cat and a blue aluminum push cart. Fisher is 5`5", 120 pounds, gray hair, hazel eyes. Please take a look for this lady. If you have info call Glendale Police 623-930-3000.
When we come back, former cop Drew Peterson, the prime suspect in wife number four`s disappearance, the suspicious bathtub drowning of wife three ruled homicide. Once again, Peterson discovers evidence. This time it`s his third wife`s missing will.
And tonight APB, all points bulletin on special moms and dads. If you know a parent who inspires, get your camcorder. Go to CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on i-Report. Enter that parent in the "Extraordinary Parent Contest."
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ROE CONN, HOST, WLS RADIO: There is a will, right? There is a -- Kathleen Savio has a will that is now being contested. The signature, it`s not -- I`m not sure, officially if it`s a will or it`s a determination.
HARRY SMITH, KATHLEEN SAVIO`S DIVORCE ATTORNEY: No, right after she passed away that was not there, I recall. So obviously, you know, that`s just my memory to it. I recall Drew`s attorney making a representation that there was a will. But it did not surface for a long time.
CONN: You`ve never seen this will?
SMITH: No, absolutely not.
CONN: As her divorce attorney, you`d not seen the will.
SMITH: No.
CONN: Would you -- did you ever ask her about a will to your recollection?
SMITH: Yes. Yes.
CONN: And did she say she had one?
SMITH: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Once again, Drew Peterson makes the same discovery, evidence, this time apparently his third wife didn`t have a will and then suddenly Peterson discovers it. And it`s a holographic or handwritten will.
Who are these witnesses? Let`s find out. Let`s go to Mary Frances Bragiel with WBBM Newsradio 780.
Mary Frances, welcome. What can you tell me?
MARY FRANCES BRAGIEL, REPORTER, WBBM NEWSRADIO 780: All I can tell you is that apparently this will was found about 15 days after Kathleen Savio`s death. And according to Drew it`s an authentic will. It held up in a court. The judge said it held up in a court. And the witnesses are apparently friends of Drew Peterson who witnessed both of them signing it.
Drew said they simply forgot about it. He had no idea just as you heard from the attorney there saying that he didn`t know anything about it. Drew said they knew, they forgot about it, and that was it.
GRACE: Interesting. Interesting. Who represented that she did not have a will, Mary Frances?
BRAGIEL: Say that again?
GRACE: Who had represented at any juncture that Kathleen Savio did not have a will?
BRAGIEL: It was her divorce attorney who said that he knew -- he didn`t know of any type of will at all when they were talking about a divorce.
GRACE: Out to the lawyers. Daniel Horowitz, isn`t that the first thing, one of the first things you look at in a divorce is financial matters whether there is a will intact?
HOROWITZ: Sure. I mean you would ask all those questions, Nancy. I`m puzzled because a few things bother me. First of all why did not this lawyer not come forward when the original will went to probate? Didn`t he know about it? Secondly I wonder if there is a criminal prosecution whether what he says she said to her is hearsay and doesn`t come in or if it`s some hearsay exception? So that`s what`s bothering me at this moment.
GRACE: Randy?
ZELIN: I think you also have a very interesting attorney-client privilege issue. Let`s not forget that even after death the privilege remains. I think it was completely inappropriate for him to go public and say she told me that she never had a will.
GRACE: Randy Zelin, once again side-tracking in defense of Drew Peterson. Good to know. Holly?
HUGHES: You know this doesn`t surprise me that he`s the one who found the will. This guy charms people. How do you think he got four wives, Nancy? The fact that he lied about this and had his friends convince them to lie. He`s a charmer. You know he can talk people into things.
GRACE: Joining me right now, I`m hearing in my ear, a very special guest. This is the defense attorney for Drew Peterson, cop turned husband turned suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance, Joel Brodsky, a veteran trial lawyer in the Chicago area.
Joel, welcome. Who are the witnesses to this will?
JOEL BRODSKY, ATTORNEY FOR DREW PETERSON: Well, one was a partner of -- police officer partner of Drew`s, former police officer partner. And the other was a friend of Drew`s.
GRACE: Why is -- why in -- with her will.
BRODSKY: Well, actually it wasn`t just her will.
GRACE: A joint -- it`s a joint will.
BRODSKY: It was a joint will, correct.
GRACE: Why are both of the witnesses his friends?
BRODSKY: Well, those are who were available. If you remember, Drew.
GRACE: Available.
BRODSKY: Drew has testified that they -- that he and or Drew stated that both he and.
GRACE: Kathleen?
BRODSKY: .and Kathy were about to go on a vacation and that they needed to get a will done.
GRACE: Why?
BRODSKY: .you know, to protect their children. It`s just common that people who are about to leave...
GRACE: Really? Because I have never written a will on my way to vacation. I thought about it after 9/11. Didn`t do it. So.
BRODSKY: A lot of people do do it.
GRACE: .she (INAUDIBLE) wanted a will to fully enjoy his vacation. What were they? Skydiving? Scuba diving? What?
BRODSKY: Well, they just wanted to make sure that if something occurred to them during their vacation.
GRACE: Where did they go? Where did they go?
BRODSKY: I don`t recall but...
GRACE: Daytona Beach, Disneyland, some where dangerous they needed a will?
BRODSKY: They were concerned for their -- for the two children that if something happened to them that their children would be taken care of.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Under the law if you are in testate without a will everything you`ve got goes to your children anyway.
BRODSKY: Well, at least then they would appoint them an executor and the will also detailed where the money was.
But let me just say one thing about the signature in the will.
GRACE: Did Drew write this? Did Drew -- this is a holographic or handwritten will.
BRODSKY: Right.
GRACE: I take it that Drew wrote this.
BRODSKY: Correct.
GRACE: This is not her handwriting. So Drew Peterson hand wrote the will. Yes, sir. OK. This had Drew Peterson`s two friend witness the will. Yes?
BRODSKY: Right. Right. But.
GRACE: OK.
BRODSKY: But also this is.
GRACE: How could he say he didn`t remember it then?
BRODSKY: The Chicago -- by the way, "The Chicago Suns-Times" hired a handwriting expert and that handwriting expert confirmed that that was Kathleen`s signature on the will. So there`s no question that it`s Kathleen`s signature.
GRACE: Yes.
BRODSKY: You know, by a handwriting expert and by two witnesses.
GRACE: Yes.
BRODSKY: .who came into court and swore that they saw her sign it.
GRACE: I`ve got a question.
BRODSKY: Sure.
GRACE: Why then did everyone believe she did not have a will?
BRODSKY: Well, apparently what happened was they did it so quickly before they left on vacation that when they returned they both pretty much forgot about it. Remember, this was in 1997 and the divorce didn`t start until 2003. So during that five-year period they forgot it existed. Drew didn`t discover it until later on when -- after Kathleen passed away when he started going through their papers and found it.
GRACE: Did they probate it? In other words, take the will to file it at the courthouse?
BRODSKY: Yes, they did. It wasn`t a self authenticating will.
GRACE: When?
BRODSKY: Very shortly after it was discovered. I`m not exactly sure of the date.
GRACE: Whoa. Wait. Wait. After it was discovered.
BRODSKY: Right.
GRACE: When was it discovered?
BRODSKY: By Drew.
GRACE: When?
BRODSKY: I think a couple weeks after Kathy passed away.
GRACE: Fifteen days. OK. The plot thickens.
To Mary Frances Bragiel, the will is discovered by Drew Peterson a few weeks after his wife`s unusual drowning death in a dry bathtub covered in bruises. It`s now been ruled a homicide. Hold on. Mary Frances, do we know where it was discovered?
BRAGIEL: No, some place in the house. Drew apparently just came across this will.
GRACE: Where was it discovered, Joel?
BRODSKY: Like she said, along their papers and -- among their papers in Drew`s house.
GRACE: OK, everybody. I want to pause.
Tonight a really big occasion. A happy anniversary to Ann and Chuck in Fayetteville, Georgia. Here they are. They beat the odds. Fifty-one years and going strong.
Happy anniversary.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While Kathleen Savio was divorcing Drew Peterson she didn`t have a will according to her lawyer Harry Smith. If Smith`s claims are true, it raises many questions about the validity of the will. The same attorney claiming Peterson`s missing fourth wife Stacy talked to him about divorce just 48 hours before she disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines, Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.
SHEEBA, FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, sweetie. My question is this is starting to sound like the good old boys club down south. And I wonder if they`re going to check this will for any fingerprints.
GRACE: Well, Sheeba.
SHEEBA: There should be more fingerprints of hers than his.
GRACE: Yes, there should be. Sheeba, I don`t know about the good old boys club down in the south. But this is Chicago. And I would like to know, Mary Frances, what if any tests have been run on the will?
BRAGIEL: I have no idea. The Illinois state police investigators obviously have said nothing about this nor has the Will County state`s attorney at this point. So if they are I`m sure they`re looking at it once again. But don`t forget the judge already validated this he will, saying it was truthful.
GRACE: And Joel Brodsky, who wanted a handwriting analysis run on it?
BRODSKY: Oh it was "The Chicago Sun-Times" when they did an investigation into both the will and then a separate power of attorney that Kathy signed and was used in, after her death and probation and distributing property.
GRACE: OK. To Lynn in Tennessee. Hi, Lynn.
LYNN, FROM TENNESSEE: Hi, Miss Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear.
LYNN: I just want to tell you I have so much respect for you and I just love your tenacity.
GRACE: Thank you.
LYNN: My question is I have noticed, you know, in the beginning, Drew was so talkative. And it seems like since the autopsy where they ruled it a homicide you don`t hear very much out of him. And I find it funny how he claims he has discovered the will.
GRACE: Uh-oh, we have lost the caller. Lynn, I didn`t get the question. Please call us back.
Let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Tim Hanson, 23, Kenosha, Wisconsin, killed, Iraq, on a first tour, left studies to enlist. Loved history, camping, Hawaiian t-shirts. Leaves behind a full family, parents Susan and Robert, brother Andrew, sister Jennifer.
Timothy Hanson, American hero.
Thank you for inviting us into your homes and a special good night from mother and daughter, Dr. Robi and Helene. Aren`t they beautiful?
See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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