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Obama's Tough Spot; Loyalty, Church & The Flock; Ferraro's Comments Racist?; JP Morgan Chase Buys Bear Stearns; John McCain Shows Up in Iraq; Pentagon Report Leak Out This Week; Additional Victims of Charles Manson
Aired March 16, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, new developments Barack Obama getting it from both sides. It begins with heat directed at him for these comments made by his spiritual advice ser. Obama repudiates the comments and the reverend resigns but now Obama is getting heat from black churches for turning on one of their own. What's an African- American senator running for the presidency to do?
John McCain shows up in Iraq. Campaign stop? No.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Americans are understanding this --
SANCHEZ: Not Iraq but the economy making headlines. A crisis of confidence on Wall Street. Bear Stearns is bailed out and now bought out. Saved from the brink. What was the government trying to avert?
The tornado that smashed Atlanta and by the way, with the CNN Center in its path. Take a look at this. These are roof tiles that have been falling off of the CNN Center. They have been falling 14 floors and they are heavy.
New York dealing with its own disaster, a devastating crane accident where people may still be trapped under the rubble.
And he's the most famous cult leader in the United States, now a group of forensic experts say they think Charles Manson had more victims. Tonight they tell us where the bodies may be buried.
Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
We're going to begin tonight with some new developments linked to the damning words of Barack Obama's former preacher. Obama had a solid shot at the white house, a skinny lead for his party's nomination run and then bam it happens, not a scandal but it's a sticky mess and really a mindfield for Senator Barack Obama. At the center is Barack Obama and trying to negotiate it at this point. We're talking about the church he attends. Black churches in general, how they affect elections and the respected minister that loud and fiery speaker whose passionate sermons are sending the Obama camp into a defensive mode tonight. This has all the potential to shape the so far solid base of Senator Obama's support.
We're on every part of this story tonight. But read along with me first this statement that we received here at CNN just a couple of hours ago, released by the Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago. It reads, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright is "being assassinated in the public's fear because he has preached a social gospel on behalf of oppressed women, children, and men in America and around the globe." It goes on to say media reports "attack the legacy of the African- American church and continues to lead the fight for human rights in America and around the world."
OK. So why the anger? Why the outrage? It's this. Senator Barack Obama is putting a lot of distance between himself, his campaign, and his former pastor. Why? Because of these words you're about to here from the Reverend Jeremiah Wright delivered from the pulpit. Here they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: God bless America. No. No. No. Not god bless America. God dam America. They are killing innocent people. It just came to me within the past few weeks ya'll why so many folks are hating on Barack Obama. He doesn't sit fit the model. He ain't white. He ain't rich. And he ain't privileged. Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a process that is controlled by rich, white people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. That's what started it all. And today the church's current pastor slammed us, the media, the papers, broadcast news. He says, we're isolating some controversial comments and ignoring what this church is really all about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. OTIS MOSS, TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST: No one talks about our two senior housing units, just the sound bytes. No one talks about HIV/AIDS ministry, one of the finest in the country, just the sound bytes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Let's get some conversation going about this. And there's plenty to be had. Our guests are waiting to weigh in on this as well but first, let's go to our CNN contributor Roland Martin. He's been following this story throughout the day.
Roland, make us understand why this sudden angry reaction from the church that we received here just a couple of hours ago in this statement.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: First of all, it was not all of a sudden. The church first came under attack last year after the black value system was so-called uncover by the media. Of course, you had Sean Hannity with the radio show railing against Barack Obama and the reverend every single night. It's been going on for a year. It's not a new controversy, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Should they be surprised when a man says god dam America, people would be upset?
MARIN: I think people would be upset if you played that particular sound byte but as a journalist, the first question I would always ask is what actually was said prior to that sound byte?
Some of the things that I read, it's very interesting Rick. When you talk about in that particular speech, when he was talking about the foreign policy of the United States. He has had some critical comments in terms of what this nation has done and when it comes to Iraq, when it comes to Nicaragua and when it comes to other countries around the globe.
Keep in mind, it was Secretary of State Colin Powell who apologized for what this country did in Chile and then, of course --
SANCHEZ: Wait.
MARTIN: That's the context.
SANCHEZ: You're right. What may be hate speech to one guy is fair social commentary to another guy. I get that.
Let's shift the discussion now a little bit, if we could, and let's talk about the affect on Barack Obama. Because now we're hearing, and this is where I'd like to get in your head, if I can, because I know you've got some sources on this, that there may be now some people within the African-American church community that are disappointed with Barack Obama for essentially throwing this church or this particular minister under the bus. True or not true?
MARTIN: Well first, it is not necessarily true. First of all, he did not throw the church or Wright under the bus. He criticized the words of Wright, not necessarily Wright. He also said in a statement on Friday that he will continue to attend Trinity United Church of Christ which is also the largest church in the UCC domination and the UCC also stands behind the church, Reverend Wright but also Senator Barack Obama.
Sure. There are African Americans out there who do not like the fact that Senator Obama has made some statements. We also have African Americans who are angry at us when he repudiated and denounced the words of Minister Louis Farrakhan as well.
You're going to have that. But the reality is here. I think people understand that you're dealing with a political reality in terms of how you must respond. There are white women out there who frankly did not appreciate the comments made by Senator Clinton when she repudiated and denounced the comments made by Geraldine Ferraro. So you're always going to have people who are not happy with those kinds of comments.
SANCHEZ: But how big a group of people, I suppose is the question that I'm asking you, will there be enough people out there to hurt Barack Obama within the black community itself as a result of these things that have happened this week? MARTIN: No. Because the -- what I am hearing is the individuals out there, who are criticizing Obama, is for several different reasons. First of all, many of them ascribe to the black theology that Reverend Wright preaches as well. They want to protect the legacy of Reverend Wright. First of all, he's considered one of the top pastors in the country. We're speaking about somebody who is a former U.S. Marine and happened to be a nurse at a naval hospital. They are trying to protect that legacy and also the history of black liberation theology.
Keep in mind, Rick, this is another piece that is critically important, when you think about the black church and how it's evolved, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was at one time called a radical. He at one time was called a rebel rouser. So, granted, the issue is, are you angry with his style? Are you angry with the anger or are you upset with the substance of what he is saying? That's really I think the question we should be looking at.
SANCHEZ: And it's an individual question, really, for all Americans as they look at their own value system in examining the man's words.
MARTIN: I belong to a black church and I can tell you right now there are times when my pastor will say something that I disagree with, somebody else may agree with but here's the other point that I think is critically ...
SANCHEZ: We're down to 30 seconds here.
MARTIN: I think it's important that you have Congressman Ron Paul who has made the exact same comments that Reverend Wright has made in terms of America's foreign policy and 9/11. He is a seating member of Congress who ran for president of the United States. Who has more power to affect public policy, Reverend Jeremiah Wright or Congressman Ron Paul?
SANCHEZ: Fair point.
MARTIN: Who else made these statements and agreed with them as well?
SANCHEZ: Fair point. Roland Martin, my colleague, thanks for making yourself available to us tonight and bringing us that background information.
Let's check in with the panel on this now. Joining me is Mark Demoss of the Demoss Group. He also wrote "The Little Red Book Of Wisdom" and Beth Shapiro of the Schapiro Group and Ken Edelstein, he edits "Creative Loafing," great mag by the way.
Mark, let me start with you. You're a conservative. When you hear these words uttered by this reverend, do you consider it social commentary or do you consider it hate speech?
MARK DEMOSS, PRES. THE DEMOSS GROUP: Well, first of all, I respect the right of Reverend Wright to say whatever he wants and preach whatever he wants. That's one of the beautiful things about this United States of America. He can preach damnation against towards America. He can preach whatever he wants.
SANCHEZ: But I -- I hear a but coming here.
DEMOSS: Well, I hope he recognizes that in fact that's one of the beautiful things about this country that you can do that. But I think this. One of the I think the interesting parts of this story that I have not heard reported or written anywhere is this. If a white southern Baptist church, for example, pastor engaged in some of this talk, not about America but about candidates for president as he has about Obama and Clinton, they'd be facing not the wrath of media but the wrath of the IRS.
SANCHEZ: So what are you saying? So are you saying there's a double standard in this case?
DEMOSS: I think there's a double standard because many conservative churches have been pounced upon by the IRS, had their tax exempt statuses revoked and yet we see this kind of talk in black churches.
SANCHEZ: So just go ahead and say it. Are you saying that this man should be punished for what he has said in the same form that others perhaps have been punished in the south, white reverends?
DEMOSS: Either he should be looked at by the IRS or other churches should be left alone by the IRS but I think there's clearly a double standard in terms of what the IRS allows a tax exempt organization to do, conservative versus liberal or white versus black.
SANCHEZ: I hear my colleague Roland Martin is shaking his head.
Roland, get on in this.
MARTIN: First of all, when I hear someone say that other churches have been sanctioned, I, as a journalist, I immediately say what churches? I have heard white pastors condemn Democrats, condemn social policies. You also have Reverend Rob Parsley out of Ohio who in one of his books called off the destruction of Islam. You know what? You have United States members of the armed services fighting for this country right now in Iraq that are Muslim. So what churches? How many?
SANCHEZ: You know, what's interesting about this is as we look at this, there are churches that engage in political social commentary that tends to lean to the left and other churches that do the same thing that go to the right.
Beth, to you. Should churches be talking about this at all, fair or not?
BETH SCHAPIRO, PRES.. THE SCHAPIRO GROUP: I think it's certainly fair for churches to be discussing these issues and I think certainly it's impossible for me as a person who is not African-American to comment on what is appropriate and what types of feelings were raised in the black community about the oppression that black people have felt.
SANCHEZ: If a left leaning minister stands up tomorrow and says George Bush should driven from the presidency, tarred and feathered for doing a horrible job, if it's his opinion of the presidency, what should happen to that minister? Anything?
SCHAPIRO: I think what will happen to that minister is what has happened to ministers that have been saying that for a while. I think that's certainly something that we've been hearing from people all along. And I think they will continue to preach.
SANCHEZ: Ken, let me go to you on how Obama's dealing with this situation. Has he managed this well?
KEN EDELSTEIN, EDITOR, CREATIVE LOAFING: Well, I think it's hard to tell so far. You know, it's still a little early but it was certainly wise to distance himself from it. He's in a very difficult spot. Look, this is his pastor. This guy's name is Jeremiah, like the old profit of old who I'm not saying that he's righteous in everything that he says but --
SANCHEZ: Listen. Let me break this down for you. Barack Obama has repudiated the comment but not repudiated the man and the man has resigned from his campaign. What more should he have done?
EDELSTEIN: I think that that's -- it depends on how far it goes. If he says something more, if Reverend Wright does say something more, perhaps Barack Obama will have to repudiate the man.
SANCHEZ: Roland, should he have done more?
MARTIN: What more can you do if you denounce the word and resigns from the campaign. What do you want to do? Lock him in the closet? I mean the bottom line is once someone is no longer within your comfort zone, there's nothing that you can do. I don't believe if you are John McCain or if you are Senator Clinton or that you can do more once it's outside of your sphere. So leave what more is there to do? Say I've denounced the words, so leave the church?
SANCHEZ: It's been an interesting week in the Democratic Party. You have two situations very much like this. A huge story that you should know about as well, one that could have rocked certainly Geraldine Ferraro's comments this week. Here's what a California Congresswoman and former vice presidential candidate told a newspaper reporter from the daily -- from the California paper the Daily Breeze that -- she says, ready? "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position and if he was a woman of any color, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is and the country is caught up in this concept." That's Geraldine Ferraro, speaking, she thought, on behalf of Senator Clinton. Is that a stupid thing to say? Anyone on the panel, pick it up, run with it.
MARTIN: I think a lot of people --
EDELSTEIN: Incredibly stupid thing for her to say. Perhaps it was misinterpreted. She said that she didn't mean it in a racist way but it certainly came off that way. It's interesting to compare it to this incident with Samantha Power, the foreign policy expert who quickly resigned from the Obama campaign after she called Hillary Clinton a monster. This wasn't as directed to that and it certainly could be interpreted as insulting a fashion.
SANCHEZ: Isn't this like saying, hey, I didn't get the job because they gave it to a black guy because they had to give it to a black guy? And not really stopping to think, you know what? Maybe the black guy was more qualified than you. Did you think about that possibility?
SCHAPIRO: I think what we need to do in these situations is step back and take a deep breath whether it was the Samantha Power situation with Obama or whether it was with what Geraldine Ferraro said. I think we need to understand that these are national campaigns and that these are candidates who have supporters all across the country at every level of public service and private sector leadership and people are going to say things that they should not say. And I think that if we look at the campaigns to fire people or expect people to resign every time that somebody makes an inappropriate statement, I think that we're not focusing discussing on the issue that people really care about.
And what concerns me as a Democrat is that we have a golden opportunity right now over the next five, six, seven weeks when the Democrats and candidates being out there and talking about the economy and the issues that people really care about, they are talking about who's --
SANCHEZ: That's because when there's only one winning seat.
Roland, close us out.
MARTIN: We've got to be honest about something. There are five weeks between now and Pennsylvania. This is good to us. Let's be honest. If you're a conservative radio, if you're a liberal radio, television and newspaper, we sit here and love sound bytes and we love passion and all of that back and forth.
But here's the most fundamental question both sides including John McCain must ask, is this whole controversy, is it going to help anybody get out of bankruptcy? Is it going to save their home? Is it going to deal with the economy? You've got Bear Stearns bought out by JP Morgan, 14,000 people losing their jobs.
At some point we've got to ask ourselves, does this issue here deal anything with the reality that Americans are facing every day who are broke and who are very concerned about frankly their entire lives being destroyed?
SANCHEZ: We don't chose them. We just report them. Roland Martin, thanks though for getting us into our next segment. Thanks to our panel as well.
Tonight, a huge story that you should know about, one that could have rocked our world economically. We're going to have more on this story after the break.
Also, a tornado tears through downtown Atlanta. What are the chances? It knocks out windows, damages buildings, cancels a basketball tournament. 30,000 people in town for it. A day a major tornado hits a major city.
And then some forensic experts say they found more victims of the infamous cult leader Charles Manson.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Tonight, a huge story that you should know about, one that could have rocked our world economically had the government not stepped in to make sure it didn't happen to us. An investment bank collapse, one as big as Bear Stearns is what Wall Street experts would have called an economic nightmare scenario. Here's the good news. It's been averted.
Tonight, Bear Stearns has been bailed out by the government and now they've been bought out by a competitor. All this taking place within the last couple of hours. JP Morgan Chase says it's buying the troubled investment bank, Bear Stearns, for about $236 million. Not a lot.
The Federal Reserve has already approved the deal. Bear Stearns was a mess because they invested in bad mortgages. Get this. It's valued at about $2 a share in this deal. 2 buck a share. Just last year, Bear Stearns was trading at about $160 a share.
CNN's senior correspondent Allan Chernoff is joining now by phone. He's been following the story as well.
Allan, why was the government so desperate to make sure that Bear Stearns didn't go under?
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Rick, that's very well phrased because desperation is the key here. You look at the price. I mean JP Morgan is basically just getting the company for absolutely nothing, virtually nothing.
And even though JP Morgan Chase is actually buying Bear Stearns, they are doing it with the help of the Federal Reserve. The fed here is providing up to $30 billion of funding for the deal. That's our money, our taxpayers' money. And the fed is backing Bear Stearns lousiest investments, the investments they made in high-risk mortgages. And the reason the government is so desperate is the fed is afraid that panic could spread through the financial market and Bear Stearns might be just the very first of major investment firms to suffer a loss of confidence.
SANCHEZ: So if an investment bank as big as this one, by my calculations the fifth biggest in the country, would have gone under, what would have been the tumultuous effect that we would have started to feel tomorrow and Tuesday and Wednesday? CHERNOFF: Rick, we've already had a credit crunch in the economy. It's tougher for companies to borrow money, tougher for homeowners even. The danger here is that we go from a credit crunch to a credit freeze; major investors potentially being afraid to buy and trade securities, the securities that fund the very functioning of our economy. What the fed is trying to do here is to keep the gears of capitalism turning.
SANCHEZ: So what we're doing is we're making sure they stay afloat and then are sold to another company but it's all happened within part, at least, our money. Right? Bailout means government money which means your money and my money.
CHERNOFF: We're backing this deal. The Federal Reserve is backing the deal for up to $30 billion. If this works out, potentially this is a steal for JP Morgan chase. You have to figure, they've spent the whole weekend going over the books over Bear Stearns.
SANCHEZ: And compliments in part of you, the taxpayer and me.
CHERNOFF: Exactly Rick but that's because if Bear were to totally collapse and confidence ripped apart, the conveniences would be far more severe. That's why indeed the U.S. government and the taxpayers do need to stand behind this.
SANCHEZ: To borrow a Shakespearian phrase, I must be cruel only to be kind. I guess both come into play at this situation. Allan Chernoff, thank you so much for taking us through that, certainly an important story from an economic standpoint.
Now to another story we've been following. The tornado that tore through downtown Atlanta, knocked out windows, damaged buildings and canceled a major basketball tournament; a day a major tornado hits a major city. It's a rare event folks and we have it chronicled for you including the effect at the CNN Center.
And then some forensic experts say they have found more victims of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. We'll put that one together for you.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: What happened in an instant is going to cost millions of dollars to repair. Taxpayers get ready. Governor Sunny Purdue on tour today. He's assessing the damage after the powerful storm moved across Georgia Friday night. Two people were killed in outlying areas due to a tornado that hit downtown Atlanta. That is a rarity folks and now mangled buildings with boarded-up windows are a common sight. Sky scrapers with 50, 60 windows popped out. Costly to fix and even more costly to ignore. Convention season is here and they are still adding up its losses, not to mention the moving water. They had to cancel all of the events this weekend.
Our own Cal Perry has been combing the streets to find more on this.
Cal, are people still shell-shocked about what they came out and say that has become of their city?
CAL PERRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They absolutely are, Rick. And we've seen people all day coming down here taking pictures and really gawking at the scenes. And as you said, what we're talking about here in the downtown area is wind damage. We're talking about giant skyscrapers with huge windows absolutely blown out, debris on the streets, and people, the concern now is what's going to happen tomorrow morning.
Eight hours from now, we're going to hit rush hour here in Atlanta. Are people going to be able to get to work? What are the streets going to be like? Police all day. Their concentration to get the streets cleared.
Now, they also added that they were asking people, don't come downtown. If you don't need to be downtown today, on a Sunday, don't come down here because we need the time and the space to get those streets cleared to get ready for tomorrow morning.
That said, people were still coming out here. Tourists, as I said, taking pictures. They wanted to get a look at the damage for themselves and what that correlated into was local businessmen learning how to turn a profit from this very unusual tornado.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE COHEN, SMALL BUSINESS OWNER: We survived and when you survive and everybody's well, you sell them a shirt to let them know that you survived.
PERRY: These T-shirts here, are you making a profit?
COHEN: Oh, yes, we're making a profit on that.
PERRY: You're making a profit. Big profits?
COHEN: Well, a reasonable profit on that. A regular profit on that. Sure.
PERRY: So, you're doing all right on these T-shirts?
COHEN: They're helping me to break even. Yes, Sir. This is the one that's going to bring me out of the hole.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERRY: Now, Rick, I can tell you the car behind me, you can see, was smashed by a brick, the license plate one goal. But one goal of that person is how do I get to work tomorrow. And interestingly enough, I saw somebody jammed a business card in the window that said, car repairs, their business name, and their number. So, people here in Atlanta getting back on their feet after this tornado.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: As always, just look at the glass and find a way to see it half full. Thanks so much, Cal.
By the way, what inspectors are going to be doing tomorrow is something I've seen for myself after covering lots of these hurricanes, when these happen as well. They're going to be going to these buildings and doing what are called stress tests, to see which buildings can have people go back into them and which buildings can't, because they're simply too compromised, too dangerous.
With all of those windows gone all over downtown, it's going to be something that's going to be -- probably take some time. But you know who does the best stress tests? Mother Nature.
Let's go to Jacqui Jeras now and find out when the next storm system, which will test the city as best as any, will probably come through next. When is that?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, probably two days from now, Rick. We should have all of Monday and most of Tuesday to work on that clean-up with good weather, calm winds, and sunny conditions. But Tuesday night into Wednesday, we may be seeing more severe weather across the southeast and that includes the Atlanta area.
The storm system right now, right here across the southwest through the four corners region, bringing in some rain and snow. This storm is on the move and by tomorrow we're going to see it move into the nation's midsection with a good chance of severe thunderstorms. Large hail, damaging winds, and yes, isolated tornados from San Antonio to Dallas and up towards Kansas City.
As we head into Tuesday, we'll be focusing more on Lower Mississippi River Valley, from Houston to New Orleans and up towards Memphis and on into Nashville And then Tuesday night into Wednesday, we'll see it push in to the southeast and on to into the Carolinas. So, this will be the big storm system to watch, having a huge impact tomorrow on travel, Rick. So, make sure you stick around for flight tracker before the end of the show.
SANCHEZ: All right, Jacqui. We look forward to it.
By the way, what a scene in New York City. Crews are still searching the rubble there of a townhouse for signs of life. A giant construction crane toppled on to an upper east side brown stone yesterday. It killed four construction workers. All three people are still missing who were in the building at the time.
Joining me live from the accident site in New York is New York 1 reporter Lindley Pless
Lindley, do the crews know if those three people they're looking for may still be alive? Have they heard from them?
LINDLEY PLESS, NEW YORK 1 REPORTER: Well, I have to say, sadly there have been no signs of life since you and I spoke earlier today. I talked to one iron worker. He's been in there on the site since 5:00 a.m. this morning. He said they have heard no tapping and no calls for help since then. Obviously, the longer they're searching, the longer this rescue mission continues, the less likely they are to pull out more victims.
SANCHEZ: Lindley, thanks so much for that report. We'll be checking back to you to find out how that goes.
John McCain is for all intent and purposes out of the Republican presidential opponents. So, what's he doing while he waits on the Democrats to pick a nominee to compete against? This is John McCain today in Iraq.
Also, there's a Pentagon report leaked out this week with little notice but what it basically did was undermine the entire reason for going to war in Iraq in the first place. This is not from MoveOn.org. This is from the Pentagon.
We'll shine light on the topic. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Senator John McCain is way off of the campaign trail, or maybe not. He's visiting Baghdad today. Those are pictures. It's McCain's first visit to Iraq since he became a presumptive GOP presidential nominee. He and two other congressional leaders are meeting with top government officials and the U.S. Commander in Iraq General David Petraeus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm happy to say that Americans more and more are understanding the success of this strategy of the surge and great leadership we have with General Petraeus and everyone that's here. Thanks for all you do and we hope that this will bring you home more quickly and thanks for the service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Of course, in politics as usual, McCain's critics wonder if he's exploiting the trip for political gain. But McCain says he is there for legitimate reasons as a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.
But this Wednesday, it's going to be five years since the Iraq War started. Five years. And in that time, nearly 4,000 Americans have lost their lives.
Now, you remember the reason why we entered this war. First, the weapons of mass destruction argument that ended up being proven false. The other biggy, that Iraq had an operational relationship with Al Qaeda and the terrorists behind 9/11. An operational relationship between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.
Listen to what President Bush and Vice President Cheney told the country five years ago on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We know that Iraq and the Al Qaeda terrorist network share a common enemy, the United States of America. We know that Iraq and Al Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade.
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists to have us under assault now for many years but most especially on 9/11.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, guess what? Yet another Iraq War report came out this week, apparently proving that "smoking gun" argument to be bogus. This one was commissioned by the Pentagon itself.
It reviewed more than 600,000 Iraqi documents and concluded there was no, there was no operational connection between Saddam Hussein's government and Al Qaeda before the war.
Again, let me remind what I've just said by underscoring it. This was a Pentagon report this week. Not from MoveOn.org or another lefty organization. Let's go back to our panelists.
Mark Demoss, let's start with you. As a conservative hearing this information, do you think this is something that's going to be difficult for John McCain to have to reconcile as the guy who's wrapped himself, more than anybody else, around the Iraq war?
MARK DEMOSS, PRESIDENT, THE DEMOSS GROUP: I think the entire previous -- the entire five years has been difficult to explain, to reconcile, to understand.
SANCHEZ: But let me direct my question a little bit more. John McCain is telling us this is an important job, that we need to stay there, that we need to win even if it takes 100 years. And now you have a report at the very same time when he's in Iraq that's saying, or intimating, we should never have been there because the reasons were faulty.
DEMOSS: Well, let's suppose there was unanimous agreement, Democrat and Republican that this report is absolutely true. Let's just assume everybody agrees that it's true. Then the question I would ask is so, what do we do about it? Because there are two questions on the table. Why did we go to Iraq and now what do we do now that we're there?
SANCHEZ: Can you deal with the second question without first dealing with the first question, Ken?
KEN EDELSTEIN, EDITOR, CREATIVE LOAFING: I think that's exactly what McCain and conservatives and people who supported the war want to talk about now. They want to talk about the strategy moving forward rather than who made the mistake of going in, in the first place.
SANCHEZ: Do you think the American people are willing to give up the first point and only deal with the second.
Beth?
BETH SCHAPIRO, PRESIDENT, THE SCHAPIRO GROUP: I don't think that they are. I think the American people are very discouraged about the war. They're very discouraged about our prospects of achieving any kind of victory, even of achieving any kind of stability in Iraq.
SANCHEZ: So, let me go back to my original point.
Mark, let me take it back to you. Is it possible for the American people to that -- and this is a campaign issue for John McCain. To buy John McCain, the candidate, if it also means that they have to buy that premise for why we went to war which seems to be faulty? How difficult a road to hold is this going to be for him?
DEMOSS: I think it's difficult but the people will decide, and again, to quote Roland earlier, what do you want to do with people that took that position? Do you want to lock them in a closet? I mean, what do we do if we went in for the wrong reason and now it's proven. What do we do about it? You still have to solve what's going on here.
SANCHEZ: You know, what's interesting, you know what we're commemorating this week? Commemorating is the right word -- the My Lai Massacre. The one single event that most historians say shook America to its core and made us start thinking about getting the heck out of Vietnam.
Has there been an issue like that in this war. And, if so, why not? Why not abrogate, why not reports like this one from the Pentagon?
Beth?
Ken?
SCHAPIRO: I think that there hasn't been any single issue. I think that what's happened as the war has progressed as is, as we've gone through these five years is that the American people have become very discouraged about what they see and about the complete mishandling of what's happened in Iraq. And I think that most --
SANCHEZ: Both Republicans and Democrats alike?
SCHAPIRO: Yes, yes.
SANCHEZ: Mark, you agree?
EDELSTEIN: I do agree, yes. But I don't think they're quite as discouraged as they should be about this war. I mean, we've been in there now for about five years. Obama says we should be out about a year and a half after he gets into the office. Clinton, maybe a little bit more. McCain, 100 years. I mean, which one are you going to take? SANCHEZ: You know, interestingly enough, who you're quoting he said this just today. Seymour Hersh said the very same thing. Why was it that in Vietnam. Americans got the My Lai massacre and wanted to act. And why is it that at this point in time Americans, in his words, don't seem to be getting it.
Thanks so much, panel, for a great reaction on that.
He is the face of evil for an entire generation. Now, some experts think that they have found the graves of additional victims of Charles Manson. This is a chilling story. The one you're not going to want to miss. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the CNN Center. I'm Rick Sanchez.
A remote ranch, Death Valley. It's like something out of Central Casting. Charles Manson and family moved in and hid out there. See, that was almost 40 years ago. And there have been reports of bodies buried there. They have been circulating ever since.
Well, tonight we're learning there is new evidence to suggest that these weren't just false reports or rumors. Forensic investigators have been pouring over the parched grounds of this so- called Barker Ranch. They said they have found two likely clandestine gravesites and a third site that bears further examination. Crew members say that they have been meticulous about it thus far.
We're fortunate to have one of them join us by phone in California. Police detective and dog handler Paul Dostie has been out there.
Paul, what have you found?
SGT. PAUL DOSTIE, MAMMOTH LAKES POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, we actually found five sites. And there were some mixed results with some dogs, so I was able to -- my dog has consistently alerted at all the sites and, I have to say, I trust my dog. But I'm certain I wouldn't ask anybody else to spend money on that.
So, I called in the Oak Ridge National Laboratory for advice and I was fortunate enough to really have the foremost experts in the world fly out and conduct tests out there. They really confirmed a lot of what the dog was telling me.
SANCHEZ: Confirmed what? Are there bodies there or not? And if so, are they in any way related to Charles Manson? How do we know?
DOSTIE: We won't know until they dig. However, Dr. Bass is considered a world-class expert in identifying a lot of chemicals that come off of decomposing bodies under the ground. He has four down there at the body farm in Tennessee that he studies. But these are much older and he was able to get some controls from the old ghost town cemetery at the Ballarat. SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question. As infamous as Charles Manson is, perhaps the most infamous killer in American history, how could it be possible that somebody like that could have been involved in other crimes and authorities wouldn't know about it? It almost is beyond the pale to be even considered that.
DOSTIE: Well, actually, the Inyo County authorities back in 1969, Frank Fowles was the D.A., ordered repeated searches for clandestine graves. And they actually dug a trench in the front yard to look for, you know, possible human remains but there's no technology. The first cadaver dog wasn't trained until the 1970s.
SANCHEZ: So, you're saying it's today's technology that could perhaps reveal yesterday's secrets.
Let me ask you a question about Sharon Tate. I understand that her family has been out there to the site? What can you tell us about that?
DOSTIE: I -- Patrick Sequeira of the DA that handles all the missing felon and family parole hearings introduced me to Debra Tate, Sharon's younger sister and we've become friends. So I've brought her out there twice. It's a kind of a partnership between Debra and I in this whole affair.
SANCHEZ: You let us know if you get any new information on that. And we'll talk to you again, sounds intriguing. And I'm certain many Americans listening to this story are intrigued by it as well.
They voted once but that doesn't seem to count. The controversy over Florida and Michigan Democratic primaries takes a new and intriguing twist. What now? We'll be back.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Victor DiMaio, ever heard of him? Federal Appeals Panel is getting ready to make his acquaintance tomorrow. And Democrats all over the country are going to be watching this. You see, DiMaio is suing the Democratic National Committee in a move that could help decide who becomes the party's presidential nominee.
The Florida man claims that the DNC is trampling on his constitutional rights because it refuses to seat Florida's 210 delegates at this summer's national convention. The DNC's take, they are not budging.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN, DNC CHAIRMAN: You cannot violate the rules of the process and then expect to get forgiven for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Here's why Dean is so ticked off about this. Florida and Michigan held their primaries early. They broke DNC's rules. But for the Democrats argue they had no choice. They said they were pigeon-holed by a law that was passed not by Democrats but by Florida's Republican majority including the Republican governor there and legislature.
So, while Florida's sequel is up in the air, Michigan is now trying to head for a resolution as well. Party leaders are fine- tuning a proposal to hold a second primary, June 3rd. But in a race this close, simple agreements can be hard to come by.
Hillary Clinton won Florida and Michigan in January. Her campaign says the party should honor those results. Barack Obama's camp says, wait a minute. My name wasn't even on the ballot. How can you count something where I wasn't even a part of? He says no redo and if it is, they'll have to rethink it.
As for cost, Michigan Democrats say the party is going to be reimbursing the state if it does hold a second primary. The state legislature is expected to vote on the proposal possibly this week.
Fast and furious now, let's go back to our panel. Should Michigan, should Florida count?
Mark, start with you.
DEMOSS: Well, I'm glad to say, I voted in a Republican primary, so I can watch this one from the sidelines and sort of enjoy it. It's a mess. And the Democrats are going to have to sort it out and agree on it if they can.
SANCHEZ: Beth, should they?
SCHAPIRO: I voted in the Democratic primary and I agree with Mark. It is a mess. I think it needs to be sorted out. And I think that wiser heads and mind...
SANCHEZ: But wait a minute, why should it be sorted out? If you're given rules, you and I are playing a tennis match, right Beth? And we go in saying we're going to have three sets and suddenly after I beat you in the third set, you say, no, hold on. I want to have a fourth set. I said, but we agreed to three sets. Isn't this just a matter of agreement?
Ken?
SCHAPIRO: But since I've already beat you on the first two sets, why do we have to play the third?
EDELSTEIN: Well, it needs to be sorted out because these are two swing states and the Democrats going into the general election without having ticked off the voters in these two swing states might not stand as good a chance.
SANCHEZ: So, it should be done for the good of the general election, not necessarily because it's fair pool?
EDELSTEIN: It's particularly bad for Obama because he's in the awkward position of not wanting these votes to count, on one hand, but then having to needing these states in the general election.
SANCHEZ: Point well made.
Let's go over to Jacqui Jeras. She is joining us now to let us know what's going on all over the country as people talk politics and try and get from one end of the country to the other.
Jacqui?
(WEATHER REPORT)
SANCHEZ: All right. Thanks so much, Jacqui.
I'm still laughing about, Beth, bragging about the fact that she beat me in tennis. That's the one thing you'd never expect to be said in a state of a city address. You're going to hear it for yourself. Bizarre. We'll be back.
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SANCHEZ: Every Sunday night about this time we're going to ask this question. What were they thinking? Tonight's edition, a state of the city address. You think decorum. You think eloquent. This week in Detroit, think again.
The mayor there, Kwame Kilpatrick, may hold a first in a record book somewhere. He ended his speech using a racial epithet and depicting the local media as a lynch mob after headline surfaced in January about an inappropriate affair with his own chief of staff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR KWAME KILPATRICK, DETROIT: In the past 30 days, I've been called a (bleep) more than any time in my entire life. In the past three days, I've received more death threats than I have in my entire administration. I've heard these words before. But I've never heard people say them about my wife and children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The old wife and children speech. Michigan's Attorney General is going after the mayor for perjury. Apparently, Kilpatrick and his former chief-of-staff testified under oath they did not have an affair. There's evidence to the contrary.
I'm Rick Sanchez. Thanks so much for being with us tonight. We'll look for you again, here Saturday.
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