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Campbell Brown
Hillary Bosnia Fallout; Nancy Reagan Endorses McCain
Aired March 25, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: It was full-bore damage control for Hillary Clinton's campaign today, after she admitted her harrowing accounts of a 1996 trip to Bosnia were exaggerated. So, what really happened? Did she really misremember or the events or did it take a videotape contradicting her story to force her to come clean? We have got plenty of analysis of the fallout coming up.
And just minutes from now, John McCain, a man who brands himself a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution, gets an endorsement from former first lady Nancy Reagan. Does this help him with conservative voters? We're going to be there live.
McCain also had tough talk for irresponsible lenders and borrowers today. But do people losing their homes want to hear tough talk right now?
And Barack Obama, he's still in island paradise on vacation, but the candidate found time to release his tax returns and his campaign found time to slam Clinton on the Bosnia story.
But, first, let's hear now from Senator Clinton. Today, she was forced to address all the negative attention she's been getting after admitting that she misspoke about the amount of danger she faced visiting the war zone in Bosnia 12 years ago. She's been telling crowds she remembers having to rush to cars and duck to avoid sniper fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did make a mistake in talking about it the last time and recently. But, look, this is really about what policy experience we have and who's ready to be commander in chief. And I'm happy to put my experience up against Senator Obama's any day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: She went on to try to change the subject then, bringing up Senator Obama's controversial pastor Reverend Wright.
Well, senior analyst Gloria Borger has been paying close attention to the story and she is joining us from right now.
Gloria, welcome.
Let's start with Clinton on the offensive -- or defensive, rather, about her mistake in recounting her experience in Bosnia. Did she sound credible today?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think she sounded cranky and I think it was a very, very tough sell for her. She is clearly tired of talking about this subject, because what the Obama campaign has said, this raises the whole the question about the Clintons' truthfulness. And, of course, she is saying, no, this is really about my experience.
You know, in politics, every politician, it's been my experience, has a different version of reality, Campbell. And her version of reality was that Bosnia was a very dangerous place and clearly she had been warned about Bosnia. But you have to sort of think back, gee, she was there with her teenage daughter. Her recollection should be very vivid if she was with her daughter and dodging sniper fire. So, I think she had a very tough sell today.
BROWN: All right, let's listen to something else she had to say, what she said about Obama's pastor. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: We don't have a choice when it comes to our relatives. We have a choice when it comes to our pastors and the churches we attend. Everyone will have to decide these matters for themselves. They are obviously very personal matters. But I was asked what I would do if he were my pastor. And I said I think the choice would be clear for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Gloria, she stayed away from this all last week, so why go on the attack today?
BORGER: Yes.
Well, you know the answer. She went on the attack because she wanted to change the subject from Bosnia, which is what we were just talking about before this. It is the oldest game in politics, the politics of distraction. Go somewhere else and talk about something else, which is exactly what she was trying to do.
BROWN: And, Gloria, on the Bosnia issue, here's how the Obama campaign responded.
This is a quote: "After originally refusing to play politics with this issue, it's disappointing to see Hillary Clinton's campaign sink to this low in a transparent effort to distract attention away from the story she made up about dodging sniper fire in Bosnia."
So, is all this really about experience or is it about padding their resume?
BORGER: Oh, it is all about padding your resume, Campbell. These candidates have been going back and forth on this for weeks about who -- who's got the best resume to be commander in chief. And Hillary Clinton's argument is that she's been around longer, that she's got the experience, that somehow her experience as first lady makes her more qualified, so she's talking about the resume. And being able to talk about Bosnia and dodging sniper bullets might somehow make her more qualified to be commander in chief.
BROWN: Gloria, who is the audience here?
BORGER: It's interesting, Campbell. There's two audiences. Of course, the audience is the American public. It's always the American public, but actually there's quite an elite audience that they're both talking to. And that is those superdelegates, because they're all trying to make the case to those superdelegates that they are more vetted and that they can beat John McCain.
So, Hillary Clinton is saying, look, I'm the one with the more experience. I can go up against John McCain, and that's why you ought to vote for me. So, the superdelegates are looking at this argument they're having. And they're going to say, gee, who's surviving this argument the best?
BROWN: All right, Gloria Borger for us tonight -- Gloria, thanks.
BORGER: Sure.
BROWN: We will have plenty more later in the show on the Wright controversy. It is still a hot topic on talk radio right now, so stick around for that panel discussion later in the show.
And, you know, this whole Bosnia dust-up started as a debate between Senators Clinton and Obama over who has more significant international experience. Representatives of both candidates are in the ELECTION CENTER tonight.
We're going to start with Greg Craig. He was one of Bill Clinton's attorneys during the impeachment mess and is now a top Obama adviser.
And you know, of course, what Senator Clinton said today. She said she misspoke, that she made a mistake. What do you make of her statement?
GREG CRAIG, SENIOR OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Well, I think we have to acknowledge that one of the reasons she's admitted that she misspoke is that there was a CBS videotape of what happened when she arrived on that tarmac in that airport in Bosnia.
And there was no sign of sniper fire. And there was no ducking your head and going into a hangar to avoid a reception ceremony. There was a picture of Mrs. Clinton reaching over and shaking hands with a young girl, and Chelsea being in the background.
She said that she misspoke. She had said this frequently in the past, two times in prepared remarks, most recently just on march 17. And one wonders if that videotape had not turned up, whether we would ever have had that confession that in fact that rendition, that version of what happened in Bosnia was or wasn't accurate.
BROWN: Well, your team put out a statement today, the Obama campaign, saying that -- quote -- "that this is part of a troubling pattern of Senator Clinton inflating her foreign policy experience."
And you in particular also wrote a memo detailing these exaggerations as you saw them. But, frankly, some of your claims have since been rebutted by people who were there at the time. Is this not selective memory on your side, too?
CRAIG: No, no, no, I disagree that they have been rebutted. I believe that most of the arguments that I have made about this issue of experience stand the test. For example, Senator Clinton claimed that she helped negotiate the open borders into the former Republic of Yugoslavia and Macedonia. That wasn't true. She hadn't participated in negotiations at all.
She claimed that she helped bring peace to Ireland and was instrumental in the peace process. I think everybody acknowledges that she was a supporter and assisted, but was she instrumental? I think not.
She has testified she spoke and said that she was supporting American intervention in the Rwanda genocide crisis. There's no evidence whatsoever that she ever had that conversation with anyone. In fact, that idea wasn't even debated inside the Clinton White House at that moment.
BROWN: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
CRAIG: So, I think when she claimed to be experienced in foreign policy, she clearly has had experience as first lady and learned quite a bit. But when it comes to measuring experience through these achievements that she's claimed, I think the evidence doesn't support her.
BROWN: You also know, though, there have been a number of stories saying that Senator Obama has also embellished or exaggerated his record, particularly his legislative record. There was a story recently talking about him exaggerating his participation in the immigration reform bill.
CRAIG: Well, I think the facts are that he participated in the immigration reform bill, was a critical player in the compromise.
BROWN: Well, some of people involved dispute that. They say that he exaggerated his level of involvement.
CRAIG: Well, I don't think he misrepresented it, Campbell, with all respect.
There have been I think on the other side misleading statements as to the role she played. She did not have a security clearance. She did not get briefed regularly by either the intelligence community. She did not participate in meetings in the Situation Room. She did not manage crises, any kind of international crisis.
BROWN: Next, a representative from the Clinton campaign. Lanny Davis served as special counsel to President Clinton in the 1990s and is now supporting Senator Hillary Clinton.
Welcome to you, Lanny.
LANNY DAVIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: I have to smile at that Greg Craig interview. If I didn't hear it with my own ears, it would be almost comedy hour on your program.
BROWN: All right. You will get your say. But let me ask you this.
It is kind of hard to look at this any other way. Hasn't Senator Clinton been caught in a lie here?
DAVIS: No. Your use of the word lie as a journalist, you know the difference between making a mistake and intentionally deceiving. So, let's first start with what Gloria Borger failed to report. Here's what the journalists on the scene reported. I'm quoting directly.
"Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by a Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a thank you, thank you, thank you to U.S. troops." That's March 26, 1996. You didn't report that. But that was what was reported on the ground.
And "The Washington Post" also reported, "Hillary's trip to Bosnia was for the first time since Eleanor Roosevelt that a first lady traveled to a potential combat zone."
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But, Lanny, you know what she said about running across the tarmac to avoid gunfire, when, clearly, there's videotape of her there on the tarmac being greeted by a small child.
DAVIS: So, we at least agree on the fact that, protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Clinton swooped into a military zone by a Black Hawk helicopter.
BROWN: OK.
DAVIS: That's a fact reported. Now, the fact that she said something wrong and a made a mistake, just as John McCain did, just as -- by the way, Senator Obama said that he enacted legislation that regulated nuclear energy...
(CROSSTALK)
DAVIS: "The New York Times" called that a mistake.
BROWN: You're changing the subject. Hold on.
Let's get to the bottom of this, because here's the thing. She has said this before. It is not like she just brought it up this one time. So, why didn't she come forward sooner and say she made a mistake? Why did it take video evidence to get her to fess up?
DAVIS: It's funny that you just said I changed the subject, but when Greg Craig was confronted with his inconsistencies...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: We also said Mr. Craig changed the subject.
DAVIS: My -- not changing the subject. The subject is whether people can make honest mistakes, as opposed to lying. You asked me a lie question. My answer to you and all your viewers is, they know the difference between making an honest mistake, which people in your profession tend to be cynical about, for maybe good reason, and the rest of the American people, who are concerned about foreclosures and the war in Iraq.
This honest mistake -- John McCain just made one last week. Barack Obama made one about passing nuclear energy legislation. It's not changing the subject. The subject is the quality of our politics. Rather than giving people the benefit of the doubt and saying she made a mistake, journalists jump to the L-word, the lie word.
There must be something behind it. And the American people are looking at their homes being foreclosed, watching this program, and saying, why are we talking about this subject? That's not changing the subject.
BROWN: All right, but, Lanny, does she have a credibility problem? She's been out there arguing: Hey, trust me. I was first lady. I was really in the mix on the foreign policy stuff. And now that's really being called into question.
(CROSSTALK)
DAVIS: My honest answer is, you're calling it into question. Journalists are talking about it on talking head programs tonight.
The American people are concerned about the economy and getting out of Iraq. And, right now, virtually every poll shows her defeating John McCain in the general election, and by a larger margin than Barack Obama. Now, that's a fact. You may say that she has a credibility problem because she made an honest mistake, which she called it.
But we all know the difference between mistakes and lies. And most of the American people have common sense. And they know that people don't intentionally deceive when they make mistakes. They own up to them, as Senator McCain did on a very important subject, whether al Qaeda was being trained in Iran. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
BROWN: Right.
DAVIS: I think your viewers should give Hillary the benefit of the doubt.
BROWN: OK. Lanny Davis, you are a forceful advocate for your candidate. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
DAVIS: Thank you, Campbell.
BROWN: All right, coming up, I'm about to ask my political panel about resume padding. Will people remember Hillary Clinton dodging snipers in Bosnia the same way they remember Al Gore inventing the Internet?
We're also standing by for pictures of Nancy Reagan's endorsement of John McCain.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: As the Hillary Clinton Bosnia story reminds us, voters remember when candidates get caught exaggerating their experience. Here are a couple of examples you may recall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.
MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: I saw my dad march with Martin Luther King. I did see it with my own eyes, but I saw him in the sense of being aware of his participation in that great effort.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, little instances of resume padding aren't necessarily career killers, but now that everything lives forever on the Internet, they certainly aren't career helpers either.
So, how much damage has Hillary Clinton done to herself by her stories of dodging sniper fire in Bosnia? That's a question for tonight's political panel.
We have got Salon.com editor in chief Joan Walsh with us, "TIME" magazine editor at large Mark Halperin, and Republican strategist Mike McKeon.
Welcome to everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: So, let's start -- Mark, let's start with you on this end.
Hillary Clinton called this a minor blip yesterday. Today, she said, essentially, I'm human. I make mistakes. Did she take care of the problem?
MARK HALPERIN, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, "TIME": I don't think she's totally taken care of it. I should say this, so there's no charge of a conflict of interests, that I saw Al Gore invent the Internet in Bosnia with Martin Luther King.
(LAUGHTER)
HALPERIN: So, I don't want to be too...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Thanks for clearing that up and putting that out there.
HALPERIN: I don't want to be accused of padding my resume.
BROWN: Transparency is a good thing.
HALPERIN: Exactly. Right now, there's a very strange thing going on in the Democratic primary, which is both candidates doing their best to destroy the other one every day, through the candidate themselves. This is something Hillary Clinton shouldn't have done.
Whether the voters view this as a huge sin or a minor blip, I have no idea. But I do think the bigger issue is that these two candidates now, rather than learning that the tension between them and the conflict is hurting the party and tamping it down, it has escalated now several days in a row.
BROWN: They're amping it up, Joan.
JOAN WALSH, EDITOR IN CHIEF, SALON.COM: They're absolutely amping it up. I think the really disturbing thing about this, I don't think it's big deal in itself, and I honestly personally don't believe that she lied, but she had a chance, a while back, to take care of this. The comedian Sinbad said, hey, it didn't happen...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: This was a couple of weeks ago.
WALSH: A couple weeks ago.
BROWN: Then, when the first lady's schedule came out, Salon and every other news organization went straight to the Bosnia pages and said, hey, she described it this way, but the ticktock showed that it went down a different way. And she continued to hold to the idea of sniper fire.
And then, today, only when confronted with video does she come out and say, I made a mistake. So, I think that's the thing that will really hurt her. I don't think she lied, because, honestly, it would be such a stupid lie, with that many reporters and military people...
BROWN: Right, present. WALSH: ... present. I believe that she remembered it as being more dramatic and then embellished it for reasons I can't understand.
BROWN: Mike?
MIKE MCKEON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: When Sinbad's calling you out, you are having a bad day. That's for sure.
(LAUGHTER)
MCKEON: There's another month to go to Pennsylvania. These guys Gates continue to claw at each other for another month. It is going to be -- this -- they're going to leave each other in tatters by the time this is over.
And Hillary is now talking about three more months of this. John McCain's numbers went up last month. I'm suspecting they're going to up again in the next month.
BROWN: Republicans are dancing in the streets.
But does it go to a bigger problem particularly for her? Because look at this Gallup poll. This is a "USA Today"/Gallup poll -- 44 percent thought that Hillary Clinton was honest and trustworthy. But Barack Obama and John McCain scored about 20 points higher than she did. What's that about?
HALPERIN: It does go to a bigger problem, I don't think because people think of her as exaggerator, so much as the Clintons' reputation for being political trimmers.
Again, this is something that -- I think Joan right. It's sort of inexplicable. She had a version of the story which was perfectly good. I think there's a little bit of justice here, though, because I think voters have overstated her role as first lady and what that meant for her preparedness to be commander in chief.
So, if this is causing people to have a renewed focus on what did she actually do as first lady, I think that is a good thing, because, again, I think she's gotten too much credit for it.
BROWN: Can she make some gains out of this?
WALSH: I don't know. I have thought for a while that she should really focus on her time in the Senate. She has a lot more time in the Senate than Barack Obama.
We saw in the paper today both Obama and McCain have more -- have missed more votes than she has. She hasn't been there a long time, but I think that is something. She won it for herself. She has a record. She has constituents who love and admire her and sent her back.
Why she's harped so much on the first lady years, I never entirely understood in the first place. So, maybe this will move her away from it. BROWN: And let me ask you to address another issue, because she also went on the offense today talking about Barack Obama's controversial pastor for the first time. And she said essentially that, had she been a member of that church, had she heard what he said, she would have left right away.
She hadn't addressed it until today, so clearly a maneuver to change the subject or...
MCKEON: Well, she has got to stay on the offense. Her only hope of winning this nomination, which is very slim at best, is to destroy Obama and for him to make big mistakes and to force him into big mistakes to try to have people lose confidence.
This is her -- only thing she can do over the next 30 days, 60 days, 90 days is to attack and attack. So, she really has no choice at this point.
WALSH: But, to be fair, wasn't she asked a question? Didn't the editorial board ask her about it and she responded? I'm sure we can say she was praying for that question with her pastor and was happy to have it, but -- and I guess I would ask, what is she supposed to do when she gets that question?
BROWN: Right.
WALSH: She's tried to deflect it and now at this point, what would she have done if it had been her pastor? I think that's a valid question and I think she has to answer it. She can't be Mother Teresa and say, you know, I'm not going to answer things like that.
BROWN: But what if Mike is right, that her only shot at winning from here on out is to destroy him or create a situation where he makes a terrible mistake, how ugly is this going to get?
HALPERIN: Very, although that's been true for weeks.
(CROSSTALK)
HALPERIN: I think her campaign has known for that for quite some time. And the Wright thing happened -- we're not still sure exactly how organic that occurred.
But what's different now and the reason I think it's gotten ugly is the Obama campaign has decided, for a variety of reasons, none of which have been explored enough, that they want to go back at her. They want to make superdelegates aware of the Lewinsky matter.
They want to make superdelegates aware of her negatives. They want to keep her on the defensive, as Mike said.And that means you have got two campaigns now bent on destruction.
BROWN: OK. We're going to take a quick break. You guys are sticking around and coming back a little bit later. We have got a lot more to talk about. He describes himself as a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution. Well, today, John McCain picked up the endorsement of an icon of the Reagan era. Will support from former first lady Nancy Reagan help shore up McCain's conservative credentials?
Live coverage ahead in the ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Today, a major boost from the keeper of the Reagan legacy, former first lady Nancy Reagan who released this statement, saying: " "Although it has been my custom to wait until after the Republican National Convention to announce my support of a candidate, it is clear the party has chosen its nominee. So it is with great pleasure that I endorse SEN. John McCain for president of the United States."
McCain also today -- and there you're actually seeing pictures. This happened just a short time ago of Nancy Reagan with Senator John McCain where she made it official.
Also on his schedule today, McCain took on the mortgage meltdown in what was billed as a major speech on the economy.
And we have got Dana Bash, who is traveling with the McCain campaign. And she is joining us live right now.
And, Dana, first, let's talk about the endorsement. What kind of impact would Nancy Reagan's impact have, if any, on conservatives who may still be a little skeptical of John McCain?
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I think it mostly, Campbell, is really what you saw, which is a symbol and a picture of John McCain getting an endorsement from the person who definitely represents the Reagan legacy.
It's a rite of passage for him as the Republican or presumptive Republican nominee. But to answer the question politically how much this gets him, you know, unclear how much it gets him, especially when you about the fact that Nancy Reagan, remember, actually has been a very vocal supporter of embryonic stem cell research. That's also something that McCain has supported.
It's something -- one of the many things that has really irked conservatives. So, I think, for the most part, what you saw there just moments ago outside of Nancy Reagan's home was a very important symbol of again sort of a rite of passage for him -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Dana, the other big news out of the McCain camp today was his economy speech. And let's listen to him. This is him addressing the housing crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have always been committed to the principle that it's not duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they're big banks or small borrowers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, what if any solutions was he offering today?
BASH: Not many, Campbell. You know, it's really interesting. The McCain campaign is planning on unveiling a major economic plan next month. But they realize that they just can't wait that long to talk about the economy. That's one of the reasons why he gave this address on the housing crisis today, and, you know, especially given the fact that the rap on McCain is that he simply[ doesn't get economic policy.
So, that is why you heard for the most part what he did today is give a detailed analysis of why we got to this point, talking about lenders, talking about borrowers, but he was very, very tough, as you heard, on both lenders and borrowers for getting us to the point where we're in this crisis, but was very clear that he thinks that the government is not the person or not the entity that should take care of this, really focusing on the conservative philosophy that it should be the market forces that take over.
So, and pretty much what he did was talk about what he does not think should happen more than what he does think should happen. And you certainly heard Democrats talking about that today.
BROWN: All right, Dana Bash for us tonight from California -- Dana, thanks.
So we want to bring back to our political roundtable now. We have got Joan Walsh again, Mark Halperin, and Mike McKeon joining us once again.
And we heard John McCain's take on the economy today. It was quite a stark contrast, I think, from what we heard from Hillary Clinton yesterday. He said, basically, I'm not going to play election year politics with the housing crisis.
So, what is he going to do about it? You look at the polls, it is the number one issue. It's all people care about right know.
HALPERIN: I think the good news for John McCain is he will be running against one of these two Democrats and they're not much better about talking about the economy than he is.
BROWN: They have all been a little late to the game on this.
HALPERIN: I have never seen three talented politicians so bad at talking about a major issue.
They all have ideas about the economy, but none of them have a comprehensive way of talking about it. I'm working on a piece right now for TIME.com to try to lay out and talking to strategists who have worked on past campaigns to say, what is it they're not doing?
And they're giving me a range of answers. But the basic one, the most important one, is, the world economy, the American economy is changing fundamentally. It requires new ideas and an explanation to people. McCain can't do it, but neither can Obama or Clinton so far.
BROWN: Is this a problem for all of them?
WALSH: Well, I think Obama and Clinton have had -- have put more meat on the bones of their policy. It's certainly not enough. They certainly need to do more.
But I thought that was a fairly embarrassing speech, given that the economy is a problem for him. He's a war hero. He's great on security. He needed to prove he was up to the challenge of this economy. And it really read -- it sounded like a briefing paper that somebody had, you know, entered into the teleprompter by mistake. It was an analysis rather than here's what I'm going to do.
I mean, solutions are on the table. The Fed is getting involved if they do the right thing, brokering the bail out of Bear Stearns. We go on and on, and there's so much going on right now, even, you know, with the Bush administration. There are people really proposing proactive solutions that aren't just democrats. He had nothing to say really about the vast array of solutions, or maybe they're not solutions that are on the table and I think that had to hurt him.
BROWN: With this in any way sort of a hat tip to more fiscal conservatives maybe who believe, you know, philosophically he should be staying out of it?
MCKEON: You know, I'm from the government. I'm here to help. That's an oxymoron for a lot of Americans, the Republicans, independents alike. So I was actually encouraged by his take today that government can't and shouldn't be the answer to all problems. It only leads to more government.
At some point, he's going to have to get more specific on some things but to start from the place that government is not the answer to everything is a better place.
BROWN: But quickly, you know the quote that may end up coming back to haunt him. If this is the dominant issue which is shaping up to be, "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should. I've got to get Greenspan's book."
MCKEON: Yes. He definitely -- that's a weakness for him. You know, some of his --
BROWN: The press going understatement.
MCKEON: His vote against the taxes originally, I would say, is a problem for him. I'm glad that he actually changed positions on that and supports those tax cuts. The economy, Mark may be right. His best answer to that might be Hillary and Obama.
BROWN: All right. Final words, guys?
HALPERIN: I think that John McCain has time to work on this but if we get to his convention speech and not that far from now, and he still can't talk about the economy in a compelling way, I don't think he can win the election. And I'm pretty bullish on his chances overall.
BROWN: And he's got the luxury of time which the other two don't.
WALSH: He's got the luxury of time, and he's got the luxury of what we've been talking about here that they are bloodying each other, so that helps him.
BROWN: Right.
WALSH: But he doesn't help himself when he looks to have no verbal facility with the problems that we're facing now.
BROWN: Mark, Joan, Mike, thanks to all of you. Appreciate it. Good panel tonight.
WALSH: Thank you, Campbell.
BROWN: CNN is embedded with Senator Barack Obama. Not on the campaign trail but on the beach. He's vacationing in the Virgin Islands. We've got pictures coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Senator. How are you?
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, just trying to be left alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Barack Obama spent the day enjoying more R&R on his vacation in St. Thomas. But that didn't stop his campaign from releasing the senator and his wife's joint tax returns for the years 2000 through 2006. The Obamas earned nearly a million dollars in 2006. A whopping $750,000 more than they did in 2000.
More than half of the earnings came from royalties for Senator Obama's books, "The Audacity of Hope" and "Dreams From My Father." Clinton says she will release her tax returns at least three days before the April 22 Pennsylvania primary.
But, back to that vacation. We wanted to get a better sense of how Senator Obama was spending his down time in the Caribbean.
CNN campaign embed, Chris Welch, has had the tough job of covering the candidate in St. Thomas and sent us this campaign dispatch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRIS WELCH, CNN CAMPAIGN EMBED (voice-over): Having covered Barack Obama since the snowy days of Iowa, I got to tell you, I didn't mind getting the call to cover him in the U.S. Virgin Islands. It's not a bad place to work, and also not a bad spot to take a vacation. That's how the Obama family views it at least.
But this vacation hasn't been all play for Senator Obama. CNN has learned through a source close to the government here that Obama held an unofficial meeting with the governor at the airport upon arriving. Other than that, Obama told me this afternoon it's been all about spending time with his wife Michelle and the two girls Sasha and Malia.
OBAMA: I've got a couple of days with my family. We had -- we did a little Easter service here because we couldn't go to church, and the kids read some scripture. And we had Easter dinner, and I've been mostly playing with them in the pool.
WELCH: Tomorrow, it's back to work campaigning in North Carolina where they also have a shoreline but it just won't be the same.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: All right. That's right. Back to the reality of the campaign trail. Senator Obama also made a brief beachside statement about issues he'll focus on as he gets back to the job of campaigning.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Well, I think, obviously, people are concerned about the economy so, you know, we're going to spend a lot of time talking about that. And obviously, we had a tragic marker with 4,000 now dead in Iraq so I think we want to continue to talk about the plans for dealing with the war and having a responsible and honorable withdrawal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Senator Barack Obama in the U.S. Virgin Islands.
And coming up next, busted. Detroit's mayor and a former top aide in court today answering to charges they lied under oath about having an affair.
And former first daughter Chelsea Clinton bristles at a question about her mom and dad. The offending question and Chelsea's indignant response coming up in the ELECTION CENTER.
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BROWN: In other political news tonight, people are used to seeing their mayors on campaign posters, not in mug shots. But that's Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick along with his former chief of staff, Christine Beatty. They are both facing perjury and other charges. In court separately today, both pled not guilty.
She quit after newspapers published text messages that leave little doubt she and the mayor were having an affair. They both denied the affair under oath last year. Despite calls for his resignation, the mayor says he is not quitting.
And a big no-no on the campaign trail today. During a Q&A session at Butler University in Pennsylvania, somebody asked Chelsea Clinton whether her mother's credibility was hurt by the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHELSEA CLINTON, HILLARY CLINTON'S DAUGHTER: Wow. You are the first person actually that's ever asked me that question. In the -- I don't know, maybe 70 college campuses that I have now been to. And I do not think that's any of your business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The answer got a big round of applause. She took one more question after that and then wrapped up the event.
We are tuning in on the issues that are heating up the air waves on talk radio. The clash between presidential politics and the incendiary sermons of Obama's Chicago pastor. And more on the one time superstar mayor of Detroit pleading not guilty to lying about an affair, taking the temperature of talk radio when we come back.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTHA ZOLLER, "THE MARTHA ZOLLER SHOW": And Hillary Clinton, the reason why this campaign has gotten so dirty is because there's not a dime's worth of difference between their opinions on things.
LIONEL, "THE LIONEL SHOW": Obama is saying the man I've known for 20 years, the man who married my wife and me, the man who baptized my child, the man whose church I attended for 20 years, I have never, ever in the course of my visit to that church ever heard any anti- American rhetoric, and I've never heard him say anything that's untoward. Oh, come on.
BILL HANDEL, "THE BILL HANDEL SHOW": When announcing the 12 criminal counts, eight of them against named Kilpatrick. This case is not just about sex or even lying about sex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Radio talk show hosts find out fast what is riling people up and why when their switchboards light up, and the big hot button issue that we're hearing from a lot of them is still those sermons by Barack Obama's pastor.
So joining me now, we've got two of the nations top radio hosts. Michael Smerconish spoke to Obama himself recently about Reverend Wright. And Ed Schultz, broadcasts from Fargo, North Dakota, and he's joining us as well.
Welcome to you both.
And Michael, let me start with you because I know you attended Obama's speech last week, and it's been over a week now. It's still a hot issue for your listeners. What kind of things are you hearing from them?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, "THE BIG TALKER," WPHT: Well, Campbell, I walked out of that speech and the very next day when I went on my program, and I labeled it stunning. I thought it was a tremendous set of remarks. I thought that it advanced the football relative to conversations that are long overdue about race. But that's a very tough sell with my audience based in Philadelphia.
And continually, they asked what Hillary Clinton has apparently said in Pittsburgh today, which is essentially why didn't you get up out of that pew and walk out the door? I thought he answered that as best that he could have in the remarks, and then I pursued that matter further with him when I interviewed him a couple of days ago. Over time, the more that people watch the speech and not just the YouTube loop, I think the more votes and minds that he wins over.
BROWN: Yes. It takes some listening to. You really have to focus on it is what you're saying.
Ed, let me ask you because Hillary took that shot at Obama today about Reverend Wright as Michael just mentioned, and it didn't sit very well with your listeners, did it?
ED SCHULTZ, "THE ED SHULTZ SHOW": No, it didn't. And I think democrats are getting pretty frustrated on our side of the dial with all of this dialogue. But as a talk show host, you got to talk about it. The story just keeps on giving to talk radio and America.
This speech by Obama was given a week ago thinking that he has put all this to rest. And now, here has regurgitated again by the competition. Hillary Clinton could have dodged that question and taken it to a higher ground. She knew exactly how the media was going to respond to this, and we'll be talking about this again for the next 48 hours.
What is her agenda? It's to go to the low road, and I think people are getting turned off by it.
BROWN: Michael, you know, you are a conservative guy. And as you said, you are pretty impressed with the speech, but are you surprised, I guess, that your listeners are on a different page than you are or seem to be?
SMERCONISH: Well, Campbell, you know, I was there in person. And I read the transcript and I've gone back and I've watched it entirely yet again. And I think that that's, you know, not the norm. I think that most folks, they can't afford the investment of time that's required to go and watch the remarks in total.
And consequently, they continue to see the loop. They continue to see those absolutely indefensible remarks from Reverend Wright, but without the benefit of the full explanation from the perspective of Barack Obama. So that's what he's up against.
You know, competing with a ten-second sound byte, and we do live in a sound byte mentality, in a sound byte world versus a more lengthy explanation that I think is required. Frankly, I'm surprised at how many people overtime are giving him the benefit of the doubt. I saw a CBS poll that said that seven of 10 Americans are favorably impressed with what he had to say on the subject of race.
BROWN: Let me ask you both this question. We're about a month away from the Pennsylvania primary. How is Obama? And this is something that's being talked about a lot on talk radio, on the blogs, how Obama is going to connect with sort of the non-latte drinkers, is the line you often hear. What do you think, Ed?
SCHULTZ: Well, I think in the big context of this, Pennsylvania obviously the next big showdown. Barack Obama is already cutting into that lead. His advertising is working in Pennsylvania. He's got a substantial lead in North Carolina. And no matter whether we want to talk on talk radio about the Reverend or what happened in Bosnia, the fact is this guy and his campaign have been able to laser focus on what the mission is, and that's to get the nomination.
Hillary continues and her camp continues to bring up and regurgitate old talking points to do anything they possibly can. They've moved the goal post numerous times, as they have again. They're trying to sell the country now that if they don't count Michigan and Florida, there's no way the democrats can win in November, which is absolute hogwash and it talks the party down.
What's the mission here? There is no model that the Clintons can parallel that will take them to the nomination. This has never been done before. And I think that Bill Richardson's endorsement is going to help a lot of other superdelegates come out and make the stand, Obama is out in front for a reason. He's staying on the high road.
BROWN: Right.
SCHULTZ: And over time that's what people want.
BROWN: OK. Let's hold the thought, Michael. We're going to come back to you guys in just a minute.
But first, "LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up in just a few minutes and we want to check in with Larry and see who he has on tonight -- Larry.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Hey, Campbell. It's the mean season, as we can tell, getting meaner by the minute it seems. We're all over the campaigns tonight, who said what and the reaction to it. Plus, Suze Orman is here on a day with grim money news. Housing prices are down more than 11 percent in early 2008, and still falling. Yikes!
Politics, the economy and you. "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour. Campbell, back to your war.
BROWN: All right. Larry, appreciate it.
Coming up, sex, lies and politics. Politicians are letting it all hang out, but are we learning more than we ever wanted to know? We're going to be right back.
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BROWN: Here's some other political developments we want to cover with our radio panel tonight. Another confession by New York's surprise and surprising new governor, David Paterson. He admits that he tried both marijuana and cocaine.
And Detroit's one-time superstar mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick, pleads not guilty to charges of lying about an affair. Is this all more than we ever wanted to know?
Joining us again, Michael Smerconish and Ed Schultz. And guys, let's start with Paterson. You know, Eliot Spitzer resigns as New York's governor. The new governor, David Paterson, admits to an affair first and then last night to past drug use. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. DAVID PATERSON (D), NEW YORK: I tried it a couple of times, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: OK. You couldn't really hear what he said but he was asked about using marijuana and cocaine and saying that yes, he had tried it a couple of times. I guess to both of you, my question is sort of, you know, what do your listeners think about all this? Is this what we want from our politicians, wanting them to come clean in every way, shape or form? Michael?
SMERCONISH: I think that if Paterson had made those statements in the heat of a campaign running for governor in earnest, it would have been a lethal blow to his candidacy. But in the aftermath of Spitzer, people are so damn tired of all this business. It's like, oh, my God. It has to be really high on the appalling meter in order to be something that would cause him a political stumble.
It's remarkable where we are in 2008 that a guy can admit to having done some cocaine and people are like, ah, OK. So that's what he did.
BROWN: Ed, your listeners, too? Sort of blase about the whole thing? SCHULTZ: Yes, they are and they're sick of the hypocrisy. People like Spitzer who ran on a campaign and prosecuted the way he did, and basically living a double life. You know, you can't break the law. There are times when you fall out of love with somebody, and may fall in love with somebody else.
I think the country and the public can understand those kinds of things. But when you have the shortcomings where you break the law, and you showed disregard for the law and you do favoritism one way or another, they don't have any time for that.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But with that in mind --
SCHULTZ: And I think really this is --
BROWN: Pause right there, Ed, because I want you to respond, make that point about this. Take a look at this video. This is the Mayor of Detroit, Kwame Kilpatrick. He's in court today, you know, over these racy text messages he sent to this woman he is allegedly having an affair with. And he says, forget it, I'm not even -- I'm not stepping down.
I mean, is that just what you're talking about? You know, is anyone shocked?
SCHULTZ: Yes.
BROWN: Do your listeners feel that?
SCHULTZ: Well, I think his arrogance is going to catch up with him. In the arena of public opinion, he won't make it. And I don't care if he's African-American or Latino or a white guy with red hair. I think the American people are fed up with the lies.
I think they want full disclosure, and I think we are in an age we want to know everything we possibly can find out about the candidates through this vetting process.I mean, it's pretty sad when somebody's running for office right now, we actually have to ask them, do you think you can stay out of jail?
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: OK. Let's end on that note. All right. Ed Schultz --
SMERCONISH: Hey, Campbell?
BROWN: Yes, Michael, real quick. Go ahead.
SMERCONISH: The problem with Kilpatrick is that public money apparently changed hands to cover up his indiscretions. I don't think in 2008 having an affair, you know, makes you have to give up your office. But if $8.5 million of Detroit money got paid to keep that quiet, that's the issue. BROWN: An important -- an important point there. Michael Smerconish and Ed Schultz, thanks to both of you, guys. Appreciate your time tonight.
SCHULTZ: Thank you.
BROWN: And there's one more politician we mustn't forget. We catch President Bush doing something fishy in the Oval Office. We'll also have more from Nancy Reagan's endorsement of John McCain just minutes ago.
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BROWN: More now on this hour's developing story. Just minutes ago, former first lady Nancy Reagan formally endorsed John McCain for president. Let's listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: This is an important -- most important kind of expression of confidence in my ability to lead the party.
NANCY REAGAN, FORMER FIRST LADY: Ronnie and I always waited until everything was decided and then we endorsed. Well, obviously, this is the nominee of the party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Nancy Reagan tonight.
Also, the country at the White House, the winners of the 2008 Bassmasters Classic fishing tour visited the Oval Office this morning. President Bush stated he thought it was important to welcome the champion anglers to the White House to "encourage people to fish." President Bush said I'm a good fisherman. Sometimes I'm also a good catcherman.
So coming up, a little something for those undecided voters who still cannot choose between Clinton and Obama.
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BROWN: Finally tonight, take a look at this. This is the current issue of "The New Republic" and imagines what the two candidates would look like if they merged. Who does that remind you of? We're just going to let you see that whenever you're on your own for awhile.
Anyway, that's it for us tonight. "LARRY KING" starting right now.
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