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Nancy Grace
Police Search Staten Island Pond for Missing Head
Aired March 25, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: A suitcase fished out of a local pond leads to a stunning discovery, an oversized waterlogged suitcase stuffed with a human body, a body suspected to be that of gorgeous young mom 27- year-old Amy Giordano, that suitcase linked to this 11-month-old baby boy found abandoned in a parking lot, a note tucked into his little diaper.
Headlines tonight: Warrants go down for murder. And it becomes painfully obvious the remains are missing one thing, a head. Tonight, authorities waiting for positive DNA identification. What is the cause of death? How was the body spirited out of an apartment building? And why, why did Amy Giordano`s married lover fly straight to Italy and check himself into a mental hospital? And the little toddler boy? That torso apparently all that`s left of his mother. Tonight, with no family claiming him, he`s in foster care, going up for public adoption.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Multiple human remains found in a New York pond. And now the gruesome discovery could be the key to solving the mysterious disappearance of 27-year-old Amy Giordano, the young New Jersey mom vanishing into thin air, her 11-month-old baby boy abandoned in Delaware. And tonight, the prime suspect is the baby`s buy logical dad, Amy Giordano`s married boyfriend. As a medical examiner tries to determine cause of death, shocking reports the skeletal remains missing a head. With the prime suspect waiving extradition today, police set out on yet another search in and around that Staten Island pond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a mystery surrounding missing 23-year-old mom Stacy Peterson, vanishing from upscale Chicago suburbs, husband/cop Drew Peterson the prime suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance, the suspicious bathtub drowning of wife number three officially ruled homicide. Tonight: Drew Peterson takes advice from a brand-new publicist, inviting cameras to roll on shots of his children and inside his home, a home plastered with family photos of missing Stacy. Is the former cop making a desperate appeal to potential jurors? Tonight: Peterson`s PR blitz. But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PETERSON, SUSPECT IN 4TH WIFE`S DISAPPEARANCE: The media pretty much has me painted as a sinister character, lurking around underneath the rocks and stuff. But basically, I`m just a dad raising kids. In a normal case just like this, everybody would be saying, Don`t talk to anybody. Just keep your mouth shut. Be quiet. But I`m now dealing with the court of public opinion, and which is filled with my jury pool. So not only do I have to fight all the negative publicity, you know, I want people to see, you know, there`s another side to all this.
All these people are conducting searches in fields and bushes and streams and rivers, but I have no belief that she`s there. She`s off with somebody at some beach or living life in some home anonymously, you know, in another part of -- could be another part of the world, could be the next town over. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You believe Stacy ran off.
PETERSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say she was a good mother.
PETERSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could she run off if she were a good mother?
PETERSON: That`s a thing I can`t answer. I talked to psychologists about it, and they said it happens. It happens. So she maintained a good home and she was very good to the kids. So why -- why she did it, I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you angry at Stacy for running off and leaving her family?
PETERSON: I`m very angry. Very angry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re angry at Stacy.
PETERSON: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good to know. Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight: A suitcase of remains fished from a local pond reportedly missing one thing, the head, the head of 27-year-old mom Amy Giordano. As we go to air, with no family claiming him, her toddler boy heads for public adoption.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are newly discovered remains from this murky Staten Island pond 27-year-old Amy Giordano? The young mom missing since June, the last known sighting of Giordano shopping with her 11-month-old toddler and her married boyfriend, a prime murder suspect. DNA testing under way on two sets of remains fished out of the pond on two separate nights (ph), but reports reveal the skeletal remains just a torso and missing a head. Could this stunning discovery hinder finding a cause of death?
Meantime, a second suspect and long-time friend of Rosario DiGirolamo now facing evidence-tampering and believed to be the person leading investigators straight to these human remains. But tonight: What exactly did this long-time friend reveal to police?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Where is the head of missing mom 27-year-old Amy Giordano? Part of her skeleton, we believe, was fished out of a local pond inside an oversized waterlogged suitcase. But that was just a portion of her skeletal remains.
Out to Rupa Mikkilineni joining us at the location where the remains were found, the remains that we know of. Rupa, according to your sources, has anyone discovered -- I want to know -- a head or hands, fingers? Translation, fingerprints.
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the police are being pretty tight-lipped about this entire investigation. But here`s what we know. Police were combing this area this afternoon. They left just around 3:30. And they were here continuing to look and search and dredge this pond, looking for additional skeletal remains of who they believe is Amy Giordano and -- the missing New Jersey woman.
Now, what`s also interesting is that they found a torso this -- from the neck until the pelvic area. But nowhere have we heard that they`ve found a skull or a head. Now, they won`t confirm it officially, but we are hearing from sources that they are still searching for this head. And this is very key. This is the key to the puzzle. Because, as you know, Nancy, this could mean, you know, whether or not we would know the cause of death.
GRACE: Joining me right now is an attorney for a man named John Russo, Russo apparently a long-time friend of murder suspect, the married lover of Amy Giordano. Joining us tonight, George Vomvalakis, his attorney. Mr. Vomvalakis, thank you for being with us. Your client led police to the remains of Amy Giordano. So where`s her head?
GEORGE VOMVALAKIS, JOHN RUSSO`S ATTORNEY: There are two people that I know don`t know where her head is, and that`s myself and John Russo.
GRACE: What is it your client told police? He came in on a Sunday morning by 12:30. They were with him out at that pond. What does he know?
VOMVALAKIS: As I stated yesterday, Nancy, I know you want this information, I cannot give it to you. He did give them information that they used, they coupled and combined with their information. They figured that this pond was a good place to look at. You can draw any inferences you like, but I can`t do it for you. And unfortunately, that`s all the comment I have.
GRACE: Your client is going to turn himself in. Is that correct?
VOMVALAKIS: Yes, he is.
GRACE: On what charges?
VOMVALAKIS: On the charge of tampering with physical evidence.
GRACE: Tampering with what?
VOMVALAKIS: All I know at this time is that the charge is tampering with physical evidence. I`m not a New Jersey practitioner. I have done some research on the crime, and I know that it`s the lowest felony in the state of New Jersey and carries a maximum of 18 months.
GRACE: Whoa. Hold on. You`re going to have your client turn himself in, and you don`t know what he`s charged with? Tampering with evidence in what way?
VOMVALAKIS: Again, the prosecutors have done a phenomenal job on this. And I used to be a prosecutor, and the last thing...
GRACE: That`s good to know. So how did your client tamper with evidence?
VOMVALAKIS: Do you like me a little bit now, Nancy?
GRACE: Depends on what your answer is.
VOMVALAKIS: All right.
GRACE: How did your client allegedly tamper with evidence? I`m looking at a mom without a head. I`m looking at an 11-month-old toddler boy being put up for public adoption, even though I know he`s got a half sibling out there that`s going to grow up and say, Why did you let my brother go up for adoption? So where`s the head? And what is your client charged with specifically?
VOMVALAKIS: The very little information that they made me privy to is that there is someone out there who made a statement that my client may have been at the apartment around the time that Amy went missing. That was all I was told. Now, I think that the prosecutor has been given some bad information. And I am confident, based on the information that I have in speaking to my client and speaking to the prosecutors and seeing some of the evidence, that those charges will be dismissed eventually.
GRACE: OK. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Ray Giudice, John Burris. Based on what you`re hearing, Ray Giudice, don`t you think it would be wise, before you turn your client in, to know specifically what he`s charged with?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, you might want to know. I agree there`s probably evidence inside the warrant that is more descriptive than what we`re getting tonight. I understand the lawyer, in representing his client, has got to play it close to his vest, so I understand where he`s coming from. But there`s more information available.
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I certainly think he has more information, but I also think that, you know, it`s best to turn his client in, even he doesn`t know everything, because he`s probably negotiating with the client right now. It doesn`t hurt to be cooperative. Nothing bad`s going to happen to him. He`s going to get released immediately. So I think it`s important to cooperate.
GRACE: You think so. Interesting. You two have a great amount of confidence that the client, John Russo, had nothing to do with the murder of Amy Giordano. Let`s just get down to the brass tacks, gentlemen. He knew where the body was.
BURRIS: Well, that`s (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: So what makes you believe he wasn`t there when the murder went down? What about it? To you, George Vomvalakis.
VOMVALAKIS: There`s been no evidence put forth as of yet to show, one, that -- first of all, we need to assume that Rosario DiGirolamo is not guilty. I mean, that -- we all know that at this point. We can assume that that may be a possibility, but there`s nothing out there, nor do the authorities believe that John Russo had any part in this killing, in this dismemberment, if there was one, in any sort of cover-up.
GRACE: If there was one? Her head is missing, Mr. Vomvalakis!
VOMVALAKIS: Well, again...
GRACE: Why do you say "if there was one"?
VOMVALAKIS: Well, we`re assuming, again...
GRACE: You mean she killed herself? Oh, maybe she killed herself after she hopped down to the pond in a suitcase.
VOMVALAKIS: We`re assuming that this is -- these are the skeletal remains of Amy Giordano...
GRACE: You`re right. You know what? That`s a very good point. First things first.
Back to Rupa Mikkilineni, standing by at the location where the remains have been found. What are we waiting on?
MIKKILINENI: Nancy, we`re waiting on additional body parts. I do hear that they will be continuing to search. They cleared out today at about 3:30 this afternoon. I believe they`ll be searching again tomorrow. Now, you need to understand, because I`ve gotten a look at this pond, it`s quite big. We`re looking at about 160 yards diameter. So it`s bigger than a football field. It`s kidney-shaped, more or less. It`s still round. And we`re looking at about three to six feet deep. So this means that somebody could have waded into this pond.
Now, also, something else that we discovered today as we got a closer look at this pond, there is a jetty, a kind of section that juts out into the pond. It`s like an observation deck almost. Now, some speculation -- I mean, if you consider this jetty probably juts out about 10 to 15 yards. And then it sits about four to five feet about the water level. So we`re thinking that whoever dumped this suitcase out there walked on this jetty and was able to toss it, you know? And this would put you, if you`re looking at 15 yards, and then perhaps if you`re able to toss this another 10, 15 yards -- well, police did indicate to us that the suitcase was found approximately 30 yards from the shoreline.
GRACE: I want to go to a special guest joining us tonight. He is renowned in his field. You all know Dr. Joshua Perper, the medical examiner in Miami, Florida, the chief medical examiner, and author of "When to Call the Doctor." Dr. Perper, it`s a pleasure to have you with us yet again. Dr. Perper, the reality is, if they had Giordano`s head, they could make a matchup through dental records, could they not?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Yes. Absolutely. But by the same token, the question is whether the body was dismembered or it was the result of decomposition. And this can be shown by changes or damage to the bones in the area.
GRACE: I`m sorry, Doctor. I couldn`t hear you. Would you please repeat?
PERPER: What I`m saying is that if there`s a skeletonized body, decomposition changes (ph) may detach the head from the remainder of the spinal column. So if the body was -- if the head was transected -- in other words, cut off -- you can see sometimes cuts on the bone. So it`s possible in some cases to make the determination that the body, the skeleton was actually dismembered.
GRACE: So you`re saying, Dr. Perper, there`s a possibility, under some circumstances, that the head simply became disattached to the body there in the water. But in this case, the body is in a suitcase without a head.
PERPER: Well, if it`s in a suitcase, obviously, it was -- it had to be decapitated before that. There should be -- there should be marks on the skeleton indicating that.
GRACE: Exactly. Which leads me, Peter Killeen, former cop with the - - in New York in the Port Authority. He`s a trauma expert. Which leads me to the presumption that the head was removed to avoid identification, which also leads me to think the head may very well not even be in that area. If you are removing it from the body to avoid identification, why would you bury it with the body, Peter?
PETER KILLEEN, FORMER NY PORT AUTHORITY POLICE OFFICER: Well, I think, first of all, the ESU people there that are still diving for the body parts, they`re probably really concentrating on finding the head. However, obviously, the dental identification would make it very simple. But with the DNA, they`re probably going to try to match that up, and one way or another, they`re going to try to find out if this is Amy Giordano.
But in my opinion the head not being there is just -- it`s sort of a severe act of -- on this person. And it`s just perhaps a delay tactic to give this person, whoever committed this grisly murder, a chance -- a little bit of time to recoup.
GRACE: I`m going to go to Terry Sheridan with 1010 WINS. Terry, do we know whether or not the body`s hands are attached?
TERRY SHERIDAN, 1010 WINS: No, we don`t. We -- again, we just -- the information that we got officially was just from the neck down to the pelvic area, but nothing about the hands, nothing about -- or hand bones, because it`s my understanding that there was no tissue found on it. It was pretty much bones. And I can tell you, on Sunday, there was no -- there was no odor as they pulled it out. So it was not a body. It was pretty much completely skeletonized.
GRACE: So based on what we know right now, Terry, there`s not a head and there`s nothing from, say, the pelvic region down or from the rib cage down?
SHERIDAN: I would say, yes, pretty much -- maybe the pelvic bones, the hipbones, the top of the hipbones. That`s what we were told. Now, again, yesterday, they did find more remains. We don`t know what bones that they found that way, but -- so they could have been, you know, a leg bone or an arm bone or a hand bone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This all started happening June 9, and that`s when that baby was found in a parking lot of a Delaware hospital. Now, two days before, that was the last time anyone saw Amy alive. A day later, the last time anyone had any contact with her -- we`re now talking June 8 -- that was when she spoke to a son from another marriage, a 6-year-old boy who was living with her ex-husband in New York. So that`s the last time anyone saw her or heard from Amy Giordano.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOMVALAKIS: John Russo has been cooperating with the police since June. Immediately when the police determined that DiGirolamo was a suspect, they found out that John Russo was at the time his best friend. He was a person of interest. They spoke to him repeatedly over the course of nine months. Eventually, last week, they charged him with tampering with evidence, which caused him to hire an attorney. That`s where I came in. And we -- we brought him in and he gave information that coupled with the information they already had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Human remains fished out of a local pond missing one thing, the head, the head of 27-year-old Amy Giordano.
Out to the lines. Rebecca in California. Hi, Rebecca.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is this. Does Italy honor requests for extradition from the United States?
GRACE: Let`s go out to Jean Casarez, correspondent with "In Session." Jean, what do we know about extradition with Italy? And I understand he has waived extradition?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": That`s right. Well, actually, extradition is not a factor in this case because he came back from Italy voluntarily last November, when he did plead guilty to child abandonment charges with that little boy, that 11-month-old little boy that was found in a hospital parking lot last June. So that is not an issue now. But now, suddenly, he`s charged with first degree murder in the life of his girlfriend.
GRACE: Jean, what can you tell me about him checking himself into a mental ward?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s very interesting because when he got to Italy, it appeared as though he was going to check himself into a mental ward, so it looks like the defense in this case could be a mental defect case. And Nancy, if so, he is then basically admitting, possibly, the killing of Amy. And so then...
GRACE: Hey, Jean? Look at the video. If you can see the monitor?
CASAREZ: Yes?
GRACE: They look like a happy couple. This is just before she goes missing, shopping at the Rite-Aid. You know, I guess he and Giordano and the son and his wife will be a very happy family unit, huh?
CASAREZ: Well, isn`t that the way it always is? But the video surveillance show (ph) critically important, two days before she disappeared. And now he could be facing the rest of his life in a New Jersey prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In addition to arresting Amy Giordano`s boyfriend, they charged another man, 43-year-old John Russo, Jr., of Staten Island, with tampering with evidence. Now, I spoke to Russo`s lawyer last night, and he says that they`ve been cooperating with the authorities and it was information that Russo gave them, in addition to their own investigation, that led them to the pond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-seven-year-old Amy Giordano was last seen in this parking lot in neighboring East Windsor. She was with her married boyfriend, Rosario DiGirolamo, and their 11-month-old son, Michael. But on June 14, baby Michael was abandoned at a Delaware hospital. The same day, Rosario, also known as Roy, boarded a plane from Newark and flew to Italy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, right now, if these are the remains of Amy Giordano, she`s missing her hands for identification. She`s missing her head for identification. All that`s been found so far is a torso. But I can`t believe -- to add onto the atrocity -- is nobody on either side of the family is stepping up to adopt this little toddler boy. Liz, could you show -- look at him. Is he not beautiful? I don`t understand.
I want to go to Corporal Jeff Whitmarsh with Delaware State Police. He worked on the abandonment case. He`s been there every step of the way. Why, Corporal? Explain to the viewers how he was found.
CPL. JEFF WHITMARSH, DELAWARE STATE POLICE: Again, the child was found in a parking lot of the Christiana Hospital, just sitting in the middle of a parking space under a tree. And that`s when one of the -- the staff there had walked upon him and saw him sitting there by himself.
GRACE: And nobody`s stepping forward to adopt him, Corporal?
WHITMARSH: That`s correct, Nancy. No one`s come forward, as I`m aware of, to adopt the little boy.
GRACE: And isn`t the family there? Doesn`t at least the suspect have family?
WHITMARSH: It`s hard to hear you, Nancy. There`s a lot of background sound. I`m sorry.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a tangled mystery that starts with a toddler boy being abandoned outside a Delaware hospital and ends with police calling his missing mother a murder victim. And tonight, a shocking discovery could solve the mystery. A suitcase containing human remains pulled out of a Staten Island pond. And DNA tests now under way to determine if the remains are 27-year-old Amy Giordano. She`s been missing since June and, according to police, the prime suspect is her married boyfriend, her baby`s biological dad.
Surveillance video reveals little Michael, his mom and dad all shopping together at a New Jersey grocery store just two days before the toddler is abandoned and the last time anyone sees Amy Giordano. Shortly after, Rosario Digirolamo takes off in a flight to Italy ditching his baby and his car on Staten Island.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: An incredible story as we wait for DNA identification possibly of this 27-year-old mom, her baby boy is up for public adoption.
I want to go to Corporal Jeff Whitmarsh, joining us from Delaware state police who worked the abandonment case.
Very quickly, corporal, no family is stepping forward from either side to adopt the baby?
CPL. JEFF WHITMARSH, DEL. STATE POLICE PIO ON CHILD ABANDONMENT CASE: That`s correct, Nancy. As a matter of fact, though, I know that we`ve had numerous calls that have come in, people are interested in adopting Michael but no one from the family has come forward.
GRACE: Joining me now is Stephen Fishbaum. This is Amy Giordano`s cousin.
Mr. Fishbaum, thank you very much for being with us. Is Amy`s family making any plans to take her baby?
STEPHEN FISHBAUM, COUSING OF MISSING N.J. MOM AMY GIODANO: I`m speaking to my wife about it now. We`ve been talking about it. We thought from when I spoke to the Delaware authorities that there was an adoption -- that there a line to adopt the baby. And we thought that as long as there were two loving parents, you know, adopting a baby, it makes no difference who has the baby, you know, to raise the baby.
GRACE: So nobody in Amy`s family wants their own flesh and blood?
FISHBAUM: It`s not -- it would not be our family`s flesh and blood because Amy was adopted.
GRACE: So you don`t consider her part of your family because she was adopted?
FISHBAUM: No. I was just correcting you because you said our own flesh and blood. I`m just correcting the statement.
GRACE: Well, I don`t know. Where I come from an adoption is considered the same as giving birth. I mean, when you adopt a child, it is your child. So nobody in Amy`s family is taking the baby? Right?
FISHBAUM: I`m the only contact from Amy`s family that is in touch with her over the last 10 years.
GRACE: Well, are her parents living?
FISHBAUM: Yes.
GRACE: Does she have a brother and a sister, biological or an adopted brother and sister?
FISHBAUM: No. She`s got a brother.
GRACE: She has a brother and she has parents. OK. And nobody wants the baby. Interesting.
I want to go to Corporal Jeff Whitmarsh. Corporal, I understand that the suspect, Rosario Digirolamo was arrested right near his parents` house. I know he`s got family. Nobody wants his baby?
WHITMARSH: That`s correct, Nancy. Again, no one has come forward and contacted either the Delaware police or the Division of Family Services.
GRACE: Good God in heaven.
To Patricia Saunders, psychologist, you know, apparently Digirolamo has another child by his wife. So what`s the child going to say when he grows up and finds out both of these families sat on their thumb and did nothing and let his brother be adopted through the public adoption system?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: This child Michael is so much at risk, Nancy, it scares me. He doesn`t -- he`s not going to have any narrative memory of what happened.
GRACE: What is wrong with these people?
SAUNDERS: But these are cold people who are more concerned with their own pride than this poor little baby.
GRACE: Look at this child. Neither family wanting the baby. Their own flesh and blood. And what about Rosario Digirolamo? What about it?
Back out to Jean Casarez, correspondent with "In Session," formerly CourtTV. Jean, has he made any plans for his own child?
CASAREZ: You know, I think things are happening very quickly, and I think that`s a very question because he is the father.
GRACE: Quickly, how long has she been missing, Jean?
CASAREZ: For a long time, that`s right. But he pleaded guilty to child abandonment, made no attempt to do anything with the child, now being charged with murder. So obviously it appears as though he has no intent here.
GRACE: So the wife. What do they -- do they have a child?
CASAREZ: They do. He`s married and they do have a child. And she obviously has not come out either since June. Remember, this baby was abandoned in June.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, Dr. Perper, we`re talking about trying to identify the remains positively as being Amy Giordano, this little baby`s mother. And all that`s left of his mother was a torso out in a suitcase in a pond. How can you look at simply torso bones and determine, for instance, sex? Even race? Genetic background? How can you do that without a DNA test?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Well, if the pelvis is there you can certainly make a determination whether it was a man or a woman. That`s quite easy and there`s not a problem. You can even make the determination if the woman had children.
The race is much more difficult to determine. But that.
GRACE: How do you do that based on bones?
PERPER: Some -- well, some of the -- the major criteria for the identification of the race are in the head, basically. But there are some more subtle changes in some of the bones, the clavicle, the scapula, there`s another bone of the back.
GRACE: Yes, but.
PERPER: But bones are much less reliable.
GRACE: Yes, I thought I remembered you could actually tell gender and race from the clavicle, white, African-American or Asian.
Out to the lines, Ilene in North Carolina. Hi, Ilene.
ILENE, NORTH CAROLINA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I just love you and your show and your babies.
GRACE: Thank you. I`m just imagining this little 11-month-old baby boy abandoned in a parking lot with a bogus letter stuck down his diaper. Can you imagine?
ILENE: No, it`s so, so unbelievable. It`s so, so sad.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
ILENE: But my question, it`s partly been answered. But I just wondered if cutting off the head could be symbolic of something, something in kind of a real sicko, perverse way.
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Saunders? I think Ilene is right. The last time I saw this was with a real estate mogul out in Texas where the -- head was found in Galveston Bay dirt.
SAUNDERS: Yes, it could well -- oh yes, good old dirt.
GRACE: What does that mean?
SAUNDERS: It could be a mutilation, a defacement, a debasement of the individual to in a sense wipe out their identity as if they never existed.
GRACE: Well, I think that -- and Ilene are thinking too deeply. I think it`s simply a technique to avoid identification.
To Dorie in Virginia. Hi, Dorie.
DORIE, VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Hello, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear.
DORIE: Congratulations on your children.
GRACE: Thank you.
DORIE: My comment is beings that the baby is just abandoned, wouldn`t it be so much better -- and I do understand your comments on wanting to get the family together, but isn`t it most wonderful that someone at some time will reach out to this beautiful child, will erase all these horrific memories or the past of him, and just let him lead a beautiful life? I think that would be so important.
GRACE: Dorie, you`re right. You`re right. Why try to force a family that obviously doesn`t even want their own flesh and blood to take the child? You know, I pray for happiness for this little boy.
To Theresa in West Virginia. Hi, Theresa.
THERESA, WEST VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. You know, there`s something about this story that really disturbs me. I watch your show all the time.
GRACE: Thank you.
THERESA: And this really just hit me.
GRACE: Me, too.
THERESA: It`s just so -- just despicable that -- I was -- I think you answered my question, but to the psychiatrist, this just sounds like a broken record. That boyfriend, the husband, just decides, hey, I`m just going to, you know, kill this mother and get rid of this baby. And just, you know, what is their.
GRACE: Yes. What, Dr. Saunders, let`s answer Theresa`s question. When did moms just become disposable?
SAUNDERS: Well, we know that the leading cause of death among pregnant women is murder by their partners. And that the -- most women who are murdered is by their partners. It`s cold. It`s the woman becomes an object that is inconvenient for the guy and she`s gone.
GRACE: When we come back, former cop turned suspected killer of wife Stacy Peterson, Drew Peterson`s PR blitz. Shouldn`t he be out trying to find his wife?
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(NEWSBREAK)
GRACE: In a stunning PR move, Drew Peterson`s invites the cameras into his home for live shots of his children, including photos of a home plastered with shots of family, including missing wife Stacy Peterson.
I want to go straight out to his attorney, Joel Brodsky, Drew Peterson`s attorney, joining us from Chicago, a veteran trial lawyer in that jurisdiction.
Joel.
JOEL BRODSKY, ATTORNEY FOR DREW PETERSON: Yes.
GRACE: Why did your client hire a PR guru and why did he invite cameras to roll inside his home?
BRODSKY: We got Glenn Selig involved in this because we needed help in dealing with the media. As to why he let the cameras into his house is to show -- not another side of him, but what the real Drew Peterson is like, how he lives his life, that he`s not as he is often portrayed in the media, a monster, that he is -- this is the normal guy, this is how he lives his life day-to-day, these are his children and this is how he spends his time. And so let people see that side of him.
GRACE: Interesting. I want to go out to Glenn Selig joining us from Tampa, Florida. This is Drew Peterson`s publicist.
Mr. Selig, thank you for being with us.
GLENN SELIG, DREW PETERSON`S PUBLICIST: It`s good to be here. Thanks for having me.
GRACE: Mr. Selig, is Mr. Peterson paying you?
SELIG: Why, why wouldn`t he be? Certainly, yes.
GRACE: OK. How much?
SELIG: I don`t think that that`s anything that we need to talk about.
GRACE: Really?
SELIG: Right.
GRACE: I`m just wondering why he hasn`t put that money toward trying to find his wife. In fact, there are fundraisers going on as we speak to try to raise money to find Stacy Peterson. But instead of giving money to that, wouldn`t it be a great PR stunt for him to take a check and write it out to a fundraiser to try to find his wife instead of hiring a PR guru like yourself?
SELIG: Well, you know what, Nancy, you talk as this being a PR stunt. This man is fighting, might be fighting for his life, and he`s certainly fighting for his reputation. Day in and day out, people like you have portrayed him to be some type of monster.
GRACE: No, sir. I have never called him a monster.
SELIG: You should have no problem in showing people the other side of him.
GRACE: I very simply report the facts as we know them. Do you know anything contradictory to what I have reported, Mr. Selig?
SELIG: What I do know is that this is a chance for people to see that he is a father, that he is a loving person.
GRACE: No, sir. If you could answer my question.
SELIG: .and you should have no problem wanting to show that.
GRACE: You just stated that I portrayed him to be a monster and I would ask you right now to name one thing that I have reported that is not true.
SELIG: You know what? In this country we have something called to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. In the absence of telling the full story is telling a falsehood, and you know that from the courtroom. So you need to be able to tell everything.
GRACE: No, sir. I would like you to tell me one thing that has been incorrect that I or anyone on our show has reported. Just one thing. One thing.
SELIG: I think I just answered the question which is that the absence of information.
GRACE: Right. So nothing. OK.
SELIG: The absence of information, I answered it.
GRACE: Good to know. And what information would that be?
SELIG: The information -- you seem to have a problem in us portraying him as a father, is what he is.
GRACE: No, I don`t care how you portray him.
SELIG: He`s as much that as anything else.
GRACE: I`m asking you what information I have had withheld. Everybody knows he`s got a family. Everybody knows he`s got a home. What else is.
SELIG: Well, I noticed that you -- I notice that you blurred the faces of the kids as to imply that there`s something wrong or there should be something shameful about him showing the children.
GRACE: No, sir. No. No. Minors are always blurred on this program in order that they not be exploited, which leads me to my next point. Why is it that you chose to put his children`s faces out there?
SELIG: Part of what he is, is he`s a father. And you know what? It`s no different than when you show the picture of you holding your children on the screen. Some people might look at that as you exploiting that as an opportunity to get people to like you and like you as a mother. You`re sort of in a no-win situation.
GRACE: That`s a very interesting fact, because now your client`s children have been identified and they can now be identified at malls, at public outings, and now even if their father`s not with them, people can comment to them about their missing probably murdered mom.
Good PR move, Mr. Selig. Let`s take a listen to some of this interview with Drew Peterson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PETERSON, HUSBAND OF MISSING MOM STACY PETERSON: The media pretty much has me painted as a sinister character lurking around underneath the rocks and stuff. And basically I`m just a dad raising kids. In a normal case just like this, everybody would be saying don`t talk to anybody. Just keep your mouth shut. Be quiet. But I`m now dealing with the court of public opinion and -- which is filled with my jury pool. So not only do I have to fight all the negative publicity, you know, I want people to see, you know, there`s another side to all this.
All these people are conducting searches in fields and bushes and streams and rivers. But I have no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To attorney -- trial attorney Joel Brodsky, a trial lawyer there in Chicago.
Mr. Brodsky, again, thank you for being with us.
BRODSKY: Yes. OK.
GRACE: As far as in generating positive PR, public relations, for your client, do you think, although I know your expertise is trying cases, do you think it would be a good PR move for him to attend at least one fundraiser?
BRODSKY: Well, Nancy, that`s a great point, because I think the last time I was on this show I said that if these people who are raising funds and conducting these searches will devote 10, 15 percent of their effort towards the idea that Stacy may be alive and that Stacy could be hiding somewhere, could be overseas and they`re searching for her there, Drew will be more than happy to contribute, Drew will be more than happy to participate.
GRACE: OK.
BRODSKY: But as long as 100 percent of their effort is towards bushes and streams and ponds then.
GRACE: Very quickly, I understand.
BRODSKY: Then it doesn`t do any good.
GRACE: To Ric Mims, former friend of Drew Peterson. Mr. Mims is joining us.
Mr. Mims, what can you tell me about a gun that Peterson withheld from police when they were seizing his guns?
RIC MIMS, FORMER FRIEND OF DREW PETERSON: Drew Peterson showed me a gun on October 30th, that night after -- I think it was October 30th. Let me check. And the police asked me to come in Wednesday morning to identify that gun here at the precinct side.
ANNOUNCER: NANCY GRACE brought to you by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To HEADLINE PRIME`s Glenn Beck, hi, friend.
GLENN BECK, HOST, GLENN BECK SHOW: Back in 1996 Hillary Clinton went to Bosnia with her daughter Chelsea and, of course, the star of good (INAUDIBLE), you know, Sinbad. And Hillary has said that when she arrived, she arrived under sniper fire and she had to take cover. Unfortunately videotape tells a different story. We`ll have more on that in just a bit.
Then the Democratic candidates for president have economic plans that are safety nets, they are not economic stimulus packages. They`re crazy and I`ll tell you why they`re bad for business.
And a new film that is taking on Islam being silenced by an American company. Details coming up.
GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE on the hunt for parents who inspire. And tonight, tonight`s extraordinary parent.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That day was probably the hardest day and the scariest day of my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 19, April Monroe did not expect to become a single mother, especially to a little boy like Calvin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My worst fears as a pregnant mother came true. I had a child that was born with deformities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Born with a severe cleft lip and palate, baby Calvin was in for a long road of surgeries. But that was not all. Calvin was also born with a hole in his heart and without a spleen. In his six short years on earth, Calvin has battled bone marrow failure and multiple recurrences of spinal meningitis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Calvin is here for a reason and he`s just incredible. He`s defied all odds and he`s made it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Although this was not the motherhood she had expected, April says raising Calvin is a gift.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God gave me Calvin because he knew that I could do it. You know, I am so blessed to have him. You know, I get to wake up to a precious life every day. That`s rewarding. That`s so rewarding to me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: And we are blessed to hear that story.
Let`s remember, Marine Corporal Allen Roberts, 21, (INAUDIBLE) Illinois, killed, Iraq. Awarded the defense service, deployment ribbon, Global War on Terror service medal, and National Defense medal. Loved making others laugh and leaves behind a wonderful family, parents Ronald and Jay, grandma Jane, girlfriend Katrina.
Allen Roberts, American hero.
Thank you for being with us. And tonight a special happy birthday to the superstar of our show, Stacey, a.k.a. Gowiki(ph).
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
