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Campbell Brown

Martin Luther King Jr. Remembered

Aired April 04, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: This is a special day for us and for the country. In the midst of this historic election, it's the 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination in Memphis, Tennessee.
It was a time when America was torn by grief and rage, and the images are much different today, though. CNN is having a conversation with black America, asking how much closer we have all come to dealing with racism, poverty and war, the problems that brought King to Memphis.

Today's sights and sounds give us answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We first say that you can stop a man, but you can't stop a movement. You can kill a man, but you cannot kill his ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Dr. King died in Memphis, so, the city has been at the center of today's remembrances.

And then joining us from there tonight, we have got CNN special correspondent Soledad O'Brien, Bev Johnson, who hosts a talk show on Memphis radio station WDIA, attorney and national radio talk show host Warren Ballentine, along with CNN contributor, Roland Martin.

And we should mention that Bev, Warren, and Roland are all at the Lorraine Motel, where King was shot. And it's now a national civil rights museum, as many people know.

And let me start with you, Soledad, and to get you and then go to Roland. Your thoughts on just what it was like to be there today.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it was amazing, amazing. You have to keep in mind, Campbell, there was an absolute downpour today. And to see thousands of people continue to line up, so they could walk through to museum, or continue to stand there so they would have a chance to take a look at some of the elected officials who came out to talk or even meet some of the radio hosts like Roland and others who were there, Bev certainly, who there doing their shows from there, it was remarkable. And the number of young people who there as well, it was really heartening, because at times, it was an absolute downpour. It was quite a little bit of a mess. Of course, one of the things that I saw that I enjoyed seeing was this recreation of the sanitation workers strike, which of course 40 years ago was the reason that Martin Luther King was in Memphis in the first place.

He was hoping to pull off a march that didn't end in violence, like the first sanitation workers march did. We have got some videotape of that. And I will show you the pictures, because some of the members were the original sanitation workers who had taken part in that march the first time around. Some were kids. Some were members of the SCLC contingent who came down. Rainbow/PUSH as well sent some people.

They were protesting originally 40 years ago unfair conditions. The sanitation worker who made the most money was making 70 bucks a week. The conditions were terrible for them, incredibly unfair. And that's why Martin was there in Memphis anyway.

People literally, Campbell, lining up in the rain just to get in and to see the radio hosts who were doing their shows among the displays at the museum, which is -- I'm not on the payroll of the museum, as I keep saying, but it's a fantastic, fantastic museum. In spite of really, really bad weather, it was a wonderful memorial I thought to a man who everybody is still trying to grapple with the legacy and figure out what his message is and how is it relevant today.

BROWN: And, Roland, give me your impressions today.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Campbell, I would use two words, painful and thankful. Painful, in that you're standing there in the actual spot where this man was assassinated. And just across the way here was where the shot was fired, painful in that to imagine all he was able to accomplish. I'm 39-years-old. I was born in November of '68. King was dead several months.

I'm thankful that I'm able to sit here, to be here, to stay actually in a hotel where he could not have stayed in. And so it's not a day, frankly, for reflection for black America. It's a day for all Americans to reflect on because king's legacy, the legacy of those who he fought alongside benefit the entire nation, not just African- Americans.

BROWN: Bev, let me ask you, because Roland did say painful, when you talked to your callers, when you heard from them today, was there a sense that the country is making progress? Was there a hopeful note to those conversations?

BEV JOHNSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Most of the callers thought that there is progress being made, but it's very, very slow. And they're hoping -- and the biggest thing I was really surprised at, they kept bringing up the word racism, racism. What are we going to in this country about racism? And a lot of callers didn't think that enough is being done to put an end to racism. BROWN: Warren, what about you?

Warren?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Go ahead.

WARREN BALLENTINE, ATTORNEY AND RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: This was a very surreal moment for me. I'm 34-years-old. I was not alive when Dr. King was assassinated.

But it felt as though that I was alive, being able to take part in a situation like this, a march like this, being able to sit with Reverend Sharpton and Martin Luther King III and others. This was surreal for my listeners. And I'm just overwhelmed at how many people, multi-generations took part in this march today.

O'BRIEN: All right, let me say thank you to Soledad O'Brien.

And then Roland, Bev and Warren are going to stay with us throughout the hour.

Four decades after the King assassination, we are seeing shocking new unemployment numbers for both blacks and whites. And coming up next, a disturbing look at the economic gulf between the races since Dr. King spoke of his dream.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The struggle for economic justice remains an unfinished part of the King legacy, because the dream is still out of reach for too many Americans.

WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe we should appoint a Cabinet-level position that will be solely and fully devoted to ending poverty as we know it in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Senator McCain also chimed in on the economy today, saying in a written statement that he would make the eradication of poverty a top priority also.

Four decades ago, Dr. King himself expanded his civil rights agenda to confront the huge economic gulf between blacks and whites. Since then, has the gap narrowed? Well, you will find the answer in part in the government's latest jobless figures showing a jump in overall unemployment last month to 5.1 percent, the highest in three years.

Well, now look at the rate for black Americans, a staggering 9.0 percent, almost double the national rate, out of work. And back in 1972, the first year the government wrote down jobless figures by race, the numbers were nearly identical, no change at all. So, we ask how Dr. King's plea for economic equality resonates today.

With me again from Memphis, radio talk show hosts Bev Johnson and Warren Ballentine and CNN contributor Roland Martin. And here with me in New York, personal finance expert Lynette Khalfani-Cox.

And let me start with you, Lynette. Just address for me if you would this disparity between the unemployment numbers between black and white.

LYNETTE KHALFANI-COX, PERSONAL FINANCE EXPERT: Well, I think it's very telling the fact that we see such a high rate of unemployment for African-Americans. The 5.1 percent numbers were shocking to a lot of people. We saw employers slash 80,000 jobs.

That really does mask the fact that in the African-American community in particular those numbers don't even begin to tell the story. So, to that extent, unfortunately, a lot of what Dr. King dreamed about for us in terms of economic parity has obviously not yet been reached.

BROWN: And, Bev, let me go to you, because people have so many differing definitions of what he stood for really. And oftentimes it seems that the anti-poverty message, which was maybe more important than anything else, gets lost in sort of our analysis at moments like this. Do you think that is true?

JOHNSON: I think that is true, because here in the Memphis area, we're seeing more and more everyone African-Americans out of work, not being able to find jobs.

And the jobs that they do get pay less than the minimum wage. And that's one of the biggest problems here in this area that African- Americans are saying that, we will work, but there is no money. And slave wages, and we need more. So, how we're going to fix it, I don't know.

BROWN: Roland, what about out on the campaign trail? Do you feel like the anti-poverty message -- or we heard John Edwards talk about it a fair amount -- but in general among the Democrats or the Republican in this case, that it's often getting short shrift?

MARTIN: Well, I think it is getting short shrift. And the problem is that, when we speak of poverty, we typically talk about it within the definition of ethnicity, when in fact that poor white in rural Pennsylvania is in the exact same economic condition as a poor African-American in inner city Detroit or Chicago. And so we must begin to deal with class.

But also, Campbell, you have also to deal with education. The reality is, if you do not have an education, you're not going to be able to get a high-earning job. You're not going to be able to remove your family out of poverty. And so those two issues are absolutely linked. And that is the common denominator between those haves and have-nots, the issue of education.

BROWN: Warren, do you think that's the case with your listeners, especially? Is that what people talking about, their real challenge, especially in urban areas, that -- problems in the education system?

BALLENTINE: Well, I think education plays a huge role in it because of the lack of quality education in the public school systems across the country.

I have three million listeners. I'm coast to coast, border to border. And every city that I'm in, it's the same exact problem. I will give you -- in Georgia alone, Clayton County, a whole school system is losing accreditation.

But I think there's another piece of this that nobody is talking about. And that is the justice angle. When you have one million African-American people locked up, incarcerated, when they come out, they're felons. They can't get jobs.

And the way this system is set up, if you go in at 19, and you come out at 24 rehabilitated, when you come out, and you want to do the right thing, you want to go out and work, you want to join the military, you are barred because you have a felony.

It's a scarlet letter A on your permanently. And you can never get a quality job. So, what do you do? You go back to what you were doing when you were 19-years-old to put food in your mouth, to provide for your family. You go out and you start doing things that you shouldn't be doing. I think that plays a huge component here when you look at the job disparity and the economic development in this country. And nobody is talking about it, in my opinion.

BROWN: Go ahead, Roland.

MARTIN: The reality is, though, is that you can link dropout rates with incarceration rates. In Chicago, 35 percent of young black men are going to graduate from high school. In the Illinois penitentiary system right now, 90 percent of all those inmates come from Chicago public schools.

And, so, in Memphis right now, 61 percent dropout rate. When we begin to lower the dropout rate, we lower the incarceration rate because they are not going to crime as their future. That's why education is directly tied to economics and criminal justice.

BROWN: Do you agree with Roland?

JOHNSON: Well, no question about it, because the dropout rate, whether we're talking about high school or college, is definitely tied to economics. Operation HOPE out in California did a survey, and they found, especially among African-Americans in college, that more of those students dropped out of college due to financial reasons, as opposed to academic reasons. And that tells you a lot about it.

And if you look at again the statistics, in 2007, the typical college graduate came out of school with $20,000 in student loan debt. And across the board -- not just African-American families -- the typical white middle-class family cannot afford to send their kids to college, at least not without student loans. And it's taking a toll on everybody in society. BROWN: All right, Lynette, thanks for being with us. Appreciate it.

Our panel is going to stay with us, as well.

The year before Martin Luther King's death, Newark, New Jersey, was consumed by rioting. Well, next, I'll ask New York's black mayor how much his city and America's urban experience has changed since then.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And that is the Martin Luther King Memorial in Atlanta tonight.

We're looking back tonight at the life and legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King on this, the 40th anniversary of his assassination, and asking tough questions about the state of race in America then and now.

Out cities have borne witness to some of the country's darkest moments in America's racial divide, as in 1967 during violent riots in Detroit and Newark. In the aftermath, President Johnson established a commission to look at what caused the violence and the outcome was the 1968 Kerner Report.

It declared that our nation is moving toward two societies, one black, one white, separate and unequal. And it noted that white society is deeply implicated in creating ghetto conditions. As tough as it was, it was also optimistic, saying that the deepening racial division is not inevitable. The movement apart can be reversed.

Well, today, life in America's cities is still an uphill climb for many African-Americans on the lower end of the economic latter, where poverty is almost one-third higher than in other parts of the country.

To shed more light on this, I spoke earlier with Mayor Cory Booker of Newark, New Jersey, who has faced many challenges leading one of the cities hardest hit by the '67 riots.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Mayor Booker, as you know, the issues that are outlined in the Kerner Commission report, they're issues -- they're your issues. They're issues that haven't changed over the years, jobs, crime, education, the same challenges you're facing today, aren't they?

CORY BOOKER (D), MAYOR OF NEWARK, NEW JERSEY: Well, they're the same maybe in those larger categorical descriptions. But they have become a lot different, in some ways, more complex.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: How? How? BOOKER: Well, I think that my parents' generation viewed education, for example, as first and foremost an issue of integration. And we now realize that that's not the single lever to pull to make a change, to make a difference.

But, at the same time, in my generation, we have been willing to experiment with different and alternative school models. So, we have seen things like charter schools in some of the toughest neighborhoods in America demonstrate extraordinary success, where they're beating out suburban school districts in terms of the success.

So, the problems are a little more complicated. But, at the same time, there's a lot of reasons to be hopeful.

BROWN: Why does it seem like the urban agenda more generally is not really a part of the debate or a part of the dialogue in a presidential election, in any presidential election? And I'm talking about Democrats and Republicans here. It's just not front and center.

BOOKER: You're right. It's not something that's been getting a lot of coverage.

And at the end of the day, though, I don't think that the real solution to our problems lies with waiting for the federal government to do something. The real solution to our problems lies within our own communities, within our own neighborhoods, within our states.

And we can do a lot of things that we're not doing now to deal with this problem. We have the power, we have the capacity, as a nation, but, more importantly, as individuals and communities, to do something about the problem. And that's the challenge.

On this anniversary of King's death, perhaps his words say it best. It's not the violent actions and the evil words of the bad people, but the appalling silence and inaction of the good people.

BROWN: But you are, even at the local level -- you talked about the generational thing earlier. I mean, you are a part of this new generation of young black leaders who are trying in some ways to approach these problems differently. Talk me through a little bit about how you're approaching it differently.

BOOKER: Sure. But, first, I have to give deference. We are very different, but we're not reacting against what was. We stand on the shoulders, we stand on the foundation laid by our parents and have therefore been given more opportunities because of their battles, their sacrifices, and their struggles.

So, we are coming to the table with different ideas, because we have different challenges, because it's a different era. And you can't do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

And even looking what happens to our children when they get in trouble, and innovating on those problems, and realizing that if you appeal to people's sense of hope and possibility, if you give wide avenues toward success, most Americans will choose the rational choice and embrace that.

So, we looked at our criminal justice system here locally and saw that kids who were getting in trouble and locked up for nonviolent drug charges were coming out of the prison system with nothing really to do, just being sent right back into the neighborhoods or into the environments that caused the criminality in the first place.

For every new problem, it's not a challenge that should be seen and should stifle our spirit. It should excite and energize us to be more creative and more imaginative about how to meet those challenges.

BROWN: All right, Newark Mayor Cory Booker, appreciate your time tonight.

BOOKER: Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We want to go back now to Memphis to our Roland Martin.

And, Roland, I know you got an exclusive interview with Senator Hillary Clinton while she was in Memphis today.

MARTIN: I did. I forgot what she said. Oh, no, I'm just kidding, just kidding, Campbell.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: You know, the conversation, we touched upon some of the comments she made earlier in her speech about appointing a poverty czar. but she also said how we must go beyond the conversation with race in America. We will explain that more in a moment.

BROWN: OK, Roland, we are going to get back to you in a minute.

And we should mention that you also asked Senator Clinton if she thinks Americans really do understand the problems of inner cities, where the schools are so much worse than schools in the suburbs. Here's what she had to say about that.

We're going to have a lot more of her interview with Roland -- and Roland -- right after the break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know that people understand it, but I'm sure trying to make people see it, so that they can't avoid it and they have to understand it. And some schools don't even have enough books. A lot of them have deplorable conditions that our children are being taught in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Back in 1970, two years after Martin Luther King's death, there were just under 1,500 black elected officials in America. Today, there are nearly 10,000, including Senator Barack Obama, of course, who is running for president.

Senator Hillary Clinton says her candidacy is also a legacy of the King era.

And during an exclusive interview in Memphis today, our Roland Martin asked her if there should be a wider conversation now about race in America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP

CLINTON: It doesn't just have to be a conversation. It needs to be a commitment to solutions.

We have had conversations. They have been behind closed doors. They have been in churches. They have been in the halls of Congress. But we haven't done everything we need to do.

Now, we have made progress. Let's not be unmindful of that. But we haven't made the kind of progress that locks in that dream and legacy. So, we do have a lot to do. And I'm proposing solutions that I think will lift all Americans, but they will disproportionately affect and help African-Americans, who have been all too often left behind.

And so my view about the conversation is, yes, everyone needs to be involved in it. We need to be educated. We need to challenge one another. It has to be a provocative conversation if it's going to lead to any results.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And Roland is joining us once again with more on his one- on-one interview with Senator Clinton -- Roland.

MARTIN: Well, you know, Campbell, today has been like back down memory lane for a lot of different people. But with somebody like me, who wasn't alive then, I really wanted to know from Senator Clinton, what about advancing the issues that King was dealing with in the last year of his life? And that is the economy and the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: The best way to honor and remember Dr. King's legacy is to fulfill it. And he was here in Memphis on behalf of sanitation workers who were denied their basic human rights to organize and to bargain and to have a decent income and be respected as contributors to the community. And he was speaking out against Vietnam.

Well, here we are, 40 years later, and we're still struggling with poverty and questions of economic justice.

Today I announced that I would have a high-level person of cabinet status who would be devoted to doing everything we could do to the government to alleviate, prevent and end poverty. It is way past time. I went to the Poor People's March on Washington in the summer of 1968, and we've had made some progress. There is no denying that.

But here in this great city, as in every city across America, too many children go to bed hungry. Too many working people don't have health care. Too many folks are denied their basic rights on the job. So we do have work to do. And ending the war in Iraq is another part of that because we need to bring that money home, and bring our sons and daughters home and put it to work right here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And we're back with Roland once again. And Roland, I just want to ask you today because, you know, you've been following the campaign. Hillary Clinton's relationship with the black community has been strained. Both of the Clinton's relationship has been strained during this campaign in part because of this campaign. And yet today, at least it seemed watching it from here, that she was warmly greeted when she came to Memphis and was spending time with people. Do you think that's the case?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, absolutely. In fact, I talked several different people who heard her speech earlier, who were followers of King, who said they really enjoyed. She hit those important points.

The bottom line is she recognizes she's running against Senator Barack Obama who's African-American. Just likes he understands by running against her, you know, a white female, that that's who Bev is leaning towards her. Bottom line is people recognize the policies and the issues put forth by the Clinton administration when her husband was president, and people still respond to that. There is no doubt they received her warmly.

BROWN: Let me bring Bev and Warren back into this. And I just want to ask you both, and Bev, you can start. Senator John McCain was there today, along with Senator Clinton. But Barack Obama chose not to be in Memphis today. What did you make of that?

BEV JOHNSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I didn't know what to make of that because I thought surely that Senator Barack Obama would be here. And, you know, it's kind of strange that he wouldn't and the other two candidates would be here. And a lot of my listeners were asking why he was not here today. So that's kind of strange. Surely, we're going to have to find out why he was not here today.

BROWN: Warren?

WARREN BALLENTINE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: You know, I find it kind of comical, and I'm going to tell you why. I'm not surprised that he's not here. He's running for the presidency of the United States. Now, Senator McCain and Senators Clinton, you know, it's wonderful that they took time to come.

But this discussion on Dr. King, we have to talk about this honestly. And honestly, when Dr. King died, he was the agitator. He was not popular. He was not beloved. He was not somebody that everybody thought highly of. He was speaking out against the war. He was speaking out against the economy. He was speaking out against the government. And for us to stand here now and say, well, all these people loved him so much and adored him so much, where were these same people when he died?

Now, look, it's fine that people are coming here today and giving speeches and playing, I want to say well with each other. But, you know, I don't think it was nothing wrong with Barack not being here. He's running for the presidency of the United States. He gave a speech about Dr. King today.

And, you know, I think that, you know, more than anybody else, Senator Clinton needed to be here and Senator McCain needed to be here. I don't think Barack necessarily had to be here today.

BROWN: All right. Warren, Bev and Roland, we're going to come back to you all in just a bit.

But first, race in the presidential campaign, and what Dr. King's legacy does mean for the candidates. We'll be back. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Both Senators Clinton and Obama talked about Martin Luther King's legacy today, not just what it means for them but for all of us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Dr. King once said that the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. It bends towards justice. But here's the thing. It does not bend on its own. It bends because each of us in our own ways, put our hand on that arc, and we bend it in the direction of justice.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because of him, after 219 years and 43 presidents who have been white men, this next generation will grow up taking for granted that a woman or an African-American can be president of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And here to talk about race on the campaign trail are two Democratic congresswomen who are backing different candidates. Eleanor Holmes Norton represents the District of Columbia and has endorsed Senator Barack Obama. Laura Richardson is from Southern California, and she's supporting Senator Hillary Clinton. Welcome to you both.

REP. ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: Thank you.

REP. LAURA RICHARDSON (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you for having me.

BROWN: Congresswoman Norton, let me begin with you. But I'd like you both to address the same question because, you know, you're both women, you're both Democrats, you're both in Congress, both African-American. You're both supporting different candidates. Tell us which, why, I guess, or how your candidate is speaking to Dr. King's message today.

NORTON: Well, Barack Obama, one might say, is the living embodiment of Dr. King's message for years after the assassination. This modern American you see, an African-American as front-runner for president of the United States, if that isn't the embodiment of the King legacy, I can't imagine what would be.

BROWN: Congresswoman Richardson?

RICHARDSON: Yes. You know, I find that really interesting. To me, the example of Dr. Martin King, when you look at his speech with the March on Washington, it was that we would be judged by the content or our character and not by the color of our skin.

For me, Senator Hillary Clinton is a perfect example of, when Dr. Martin Luther King was successful, he wasn't successful because he had a black movement or an African-American movement. He was successful because he had the ability through love and through nonviolence to work with everyone. And so, I really believe what she has done in this campaign is a perfect example of what he talked about and how he wanted to see us become.

BROWN: Congresswoman Richardson, do you believe that both of the candidates in this race are talking enough about the issues that you think directly impact African-Americans?

RICHARDSON: There has been a good discussion when you consider Ohio. I had an opportunity to travel in Ohio with Senator Clinton. There was a lot of discussion about NAFTA and jobs. I would like to hear more discussions about health care, the closing of hospitals that are occurring in our community, and also the impacts of gangs and crime.

There has to be more of a discussion of what African-Americans are facing. Black on brown crime, black on black crime, and what we can do to motivate our young people that they can live beyond what they're seeing in the streets, but the opportunities that they have and they should take advantage of.

BROWN: And Congresswoman Norton?

NORTON: There hasn't been enough discussion by either candidate of issues that are directed specifically at African-Americans. The fact is that all of the subjects, the subjects that my colleague just, for example, brought up, disproportionately affect African-Americans. But black people are always listening to whether you really get it.

Do you get it about what has happened in the great cities where the population has moved to the suburbs and the cities have been left hanging on the vine here for a couple of decades now? All of the issues will affect African-Americans like the bird in the coal mine. But it is going to be very important, as we go forward, particularly given the loyalty of African-Americans to Democrats for them to hear more, particularly about cities and particularly about the two legs of the stool that I imagine King's life to have been built upon.

BROWN: Right.

NORTON: One, of course, was civil rights, where we've done very, very well, because we've got three great statutes. But the other two were war, and we have a worse war now. And the Vietnam war.

And the third, of course, was perhaps most important to him when he died, and that was economic disparity or poverty. That's where we have really ragged terribly. We're worse off than when he where when he lived on that score.

BROWN: Right. We just have a few seconds left, but I do want to ask you both. You know how ugly it's been out there on the campaign trail. Do you believe that after this campaign is over, that there will be racial wounds in this country that need to heal?

Congresswoman Richardson?

RICHARDSON: Yes. You know, it's kind of interesting. For those of us who have a different race and we're all different here in America, this has always been a discussion. And so for me, sure, I think people have been pushed to the limit on maybe some of the things that have been said, personal comments, like calling people monsters, implying that because you're not a certain race, you can't represent certain people.

But I think, really, when it all comes down in November, Democrats will unite behind our nominee. And we will be able to communicate with our constituency and say, our nominee best reflects what America is about, understands what our issues are, and is best prepared to take care of this country. And I think people in the end will focus on that.

BROWN: Right. We're out of time. But to both of you, I appreciate your time. Congresswoman Holmes Norton and Congresswoman Richardson, thank you so much for being with us tonight.

RICHARDSON: Thank you.

NORTON: Of course.

BROWN: Just ahead, John McCain extends an olive branch in Memphis over a vote he says he now regrets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Flowers in the rain left at the King Memorial in Atlanta today. In Memphis, Senator John McCain was reaching out to African- Americans today. He spoke to a crowd in front of the Lorraine Motel where Dr. King was shot, and apologized for his 1983 vote against legislation that made King's birthday a national holiday. But not everyone in that crowd was in a forgiving mood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We can be slow as well to give greatness its due. A mistake I myself made long ago. I myself made long ago when I voted against the federal holiday in memory of Dr. King. I was wrong. I was wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all make mistakes. We all make mistakes.

MCCAIN: I was wrong and eventually realized that in time -- in time to give full support, full support for a state holiday in my home state of Arizona. I remind you that we can all be a little late sometimes in doing the right thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: McCain's party has also been trying to win over more black voters, but without a whole lot of success. A Pew Research poll shows that 72 percent of registered black voters identify with the Democratic Party, while only four percent identify with the Republican Party.

Here to talk about that, Ken Blackwell, a Republican and former Ohio secretary of state. He's now a senior fellow with the Family Research Council. And also with us once again, CNN's Roland Martin.

And Roland, I just want to ask you because you were there and you heard McCain's apology today, that was quite a moment, wasn't it?

MARTIN: Well, absolutely. And, you know, voting against the King holiday was very emotional. Although Ronald Reagan, the president, signed the bill, he was not in support of that particular bill, and African-Americans have not forgotten. And something folks were appreciative that McCain owned up to it. The question now is how is he now going to reach out beyond simply appearing here in terms of having a conversation with African-Americans to break that divide that exist between African-Americans and the Republican Party.

BROWN: And Ken, you saw those poll numbers we threw up a second ago. Four percent, four percent of African-Americans call themselves Republicans. How does the GOP reach out to African-Americans?

KENNETH BLACKWELL, SR. FELLOW, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, you have to continue to reach out and do the right thing. Let me first say, Campbell, that John McCain fought on Killing Fields so America might remain a field of dreams, and I think we owe him our gratitude and our respect. And I thought what was interesting and what he said is that we're all sometimes late in doing the right thing.

You know, it took Barack Obama a little time to say that Pastor Wright's comments were wrong. And so, the same sort of understanding could be extended to him in being, you know, a little late and standing up for America.

BROWN: But apart from that moment today, address the broader question. What do Republicans need to do to reach out to African- Americans? I mean, right now, you look at the numbers, I mean, four percent, how do you get beyond that?

BLACKWELL: Well, this is a two-party system essentially and we have to understand that Republicans have, in fact, been in the gap with the African-American community. Roland understands that back in the '60s, in '65 and '64, it wasn't just Democrats that put passed the Civil Rights Acts that really did sort of changed the political and cultural makeup of this nation. It was a coalition of Democrats and Republicans because many of the Democrats were Dixiecrats, and against fair housing.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Ken, Ken, Ken --

BLACKWELL: And so, at that point, we have to understand that there are Republicans who have, in fact, been in the gap of creating jobs. And I'll just tell you right now, you cannot advance policies that are anti-capital, anti-business and anti-investment and create the jobs that our people need across America including in the black community.

MARTIN: Come on, Ken.

BROWN: All right. Go ahead, Roland.

MARTIN: Ken?

BLACKWELL: Yes, sir.

MARTIN: Can you do me a favor, OK? When you talk about those -- you're right. Republicans were indeed on the side of civil rights laws. But many of those seven Dixiecrats when the Democratic Party embraced civil rights, they went to the Republican Party.

Here's the deal, Campbell. I want to speak present day, 2008, not 1968. The Republican Party must stop being scared of black folks. And that is save (ph) the conversation. I believe that John McCain should go to the National Urban League Convention, talks to Bush, reach out to them. He should be talking about education. He should talk about economics. He should talk about the widening gap, the disparities.

He should say, look, I have an agenda that speaks to you as well. The Republican Party, all too often, they don't want to have a conversation. They want safe environments.

Look, it's going take a long time because it has taken a long time where they have ignored black folks with the sort of strategy. They have an opportunity, but they have to do something and start talking about being the party of Lincoln. Lincoln is no longer here. Be the party of Lincoln in 2008.

BROWN: All right.

BLACKWELL: Roland --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Wait. Got to end it there. Sorry, Ken. We can discuss it for another time.

BLACKWELL: Hold it. Let me just say something to you. Right now, it was Jack Kemp who started the enterprise zones that created a flow of capital back into urban communities creating jobs.

BROWN: All right. OK, Ken, you got the last word.

BLACKWELL: He's Republican as you can be.

BROWN: To Roland and Ken, thank you very much. Roland, I know, you'll be back in a moment, but "LARRY KING LIVE" is just a few minutes way. And Larry who's with you tonight?

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Campbell, Dr. Phil is here with a little political therapy. He's got a provocative take on the candidates. What they say, how they say it and what it really means.

Plus, the Clintons' tax returns. They've got millions. We'll talk about on "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour -- Campbell.

BROWN: OK. Thanks, Larry.

Dr. King had a dream, one of equal opportunity for all. Well, whether Dr. King's vision for America has been or can be realized? When we continue our conversation with black America right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: One of the issues we all face on this anniversary is whether we're any closer to fulfilling Dr. King's dream of an America without racial prejudice. Take a look at this new polls done by "Essence" with CNN and Opinion Research Corporation. Seventeen percent of people said that racial discrimination against blacks is very serious in this country. Forty-six percent said somewhat serious, and 36 percent said it wasn't serious.

But take a look at the breakdown by race. When they asked the very same question, 43 percent of blacks said racial discrimination against them is very serious. But only 11 percent of whites saw it that way. Quite a disparity.

And I'm joined again by radio talk show hosts Bev Johnson, Warren Ballentine and Roland Martin, who are all in Memphis again to talk about where we are, where we go from here. Andy my question to all of you -- Bev, you start, is why this disparity? It's an obvious question, I know, but go ahead.

JOHNSON: The disparity is that blacks still think that they are not being treated fairly, and most of them are correct because we still have a long way to go. And what do we do about it? Well, we're still working on that.

But I don't know why it seems that whites always think that, you know, there's nothing wrong, everything is OK. But we still have more and more blacks who are in poverty, who are unemployed, who are uneducated, who are in jail. So naturally, that blacks will say that there is a disparity and they are being discriminated against.

BROWN: Warren, I'm curious about your younger callers. Do they still see discrimination as a huge issue, or there are just other things that are kind of a driving focus for them?

BALLENTINE: Well, I think they look at it in a different light. I don't think they look at it as, well, you can point at somebody and say that hey, that's a racist or they are KKK members. They look at it where it's systematic and institutionalized. I'll give you an example of this.

When the Bush administration cut education, they took the money away from the HBC (ph) youth, money that's desperately needed for African-Americans students to get college education. When you look at the mortgage industry right now today, you had a lot of minorities, Latino and black who qualify for A-paper that were put to subprime loans.

These are the things that we are looking at and saying that this is why we're still feeling discriminated and having the disparities and economic abilities in this country. I don't think it's necessarily the same way it was in the 1960s, where we can't come together and talk and be friends and really have a true togetherness as Americans.

But until we can get this institutionalized and systematic racism that is still there very much so, out of the way, I don't think we're ever going to prosper the way we can. But racism is big money in this country and that's why it is the way it is.

BROWN: Roland, I'm going ask you to end on sort of a philosophical note. Do you think that America, America today, is one that Martin Luther King, Jr. would recognize?

MARTIN: Well, I think, first of all, I think he would have said, I went to the mountaintop and I did see some of this where we are today. But we have so much farther to go. You know, Campbell, it's a challenge. And the challenge is here.

We have a lot of black radio talk show hosts here. Where were the white radio talk hosts? Where was Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck? Where were they? You've got black churches and white churches that don't even talk to one another. That's where you break down the barrier.

Anybody who's watching this right now, ask yourself, how many black friends do you have? How many white friends do you have? Who do you invite into your home?

We're never going to change this country unless individuals begin to break down their own barriers and remove the log in their eye to realize, you know what, maybe it's not they, maybe it's not them, maybe it's me, maybe it's I, the one who has the problem. That's where it starts. We can change all of this if only each of us as individual is willing to step up.

So the question, Campbell, is what are we prepared to do?

BROWN: All right. Roland, that's the perfect way to end it, thank you as always. To Roland, to Bev, and to Warren, appreciate your time tonight. Thanks, guys.

And coming up next, my conversation with poet activist Maya Angelou on the need for courage in this ongoing drive for equality. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We've been focusing on what Martin Luther King's legacy means for us today, and I talked just a short while ago with poet and author, Maya Angelou. She worked with Dr. King and remained a close friend of his wife, the late Coretta Scott King. And it's worth noting that Ms. Angelou's birthday is today. She's 80th birthday old. We talked about Dr. King, America and the need for courage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYA ANGELOU, POET, AUTHOR: We have to face our history. You can never know where you're going unless you admit where you've been. Every American wants to be proud of our country. I believe that. I believe everybody wants to stand alone in the world and say I am proud to be an American.

To see us today, 40 years after Dr. Martin Luther King's assassination, we have come far, and we should commend ourselves. We should, at the same time, have enough courage to say we haven't come nearly far enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Thanks for joining us tonight. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.

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