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Polygamist Ranch Raided by Police; Can Obama Really Win White Votes?
Aired April 05, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, watch your back, Barack Obama.
Jesse Ventura doesn't trust the U.S. government anymore. And Obama not to trust them either.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE VENTURA, FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: I can't hold my country on a pedestal anymore. You know why?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Why? The fiery Ventura tells us why live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She worked for minimum wage. She sure didn't have health insurance. She got pregnant. She started having trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Great story but it may not be true. Hillary Clinton may have some explaining to do. Again!
John McCain called a warmonger and he doesn't like it one bit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Obama would condemn such language.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Breaking news from the polygamous compound in Texas. The place is raided and more than 130 children are taken away. We are live.
A courageous young woman held captive for sex for four days shares her incredible story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary in the (BLEEP).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What they said this week and wish they hadn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh no, Oh my gosh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Ouch! Crash the party. The weekend rundown starts right now.
And hello, again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. And brazen comments about Barack Obama's safety by Minnesota's former governor Jesse Ventura. He's going to join us in just a moment. We're going to break that down for you.
But first, we have some breaking news coming out of Texas as we begin this newscast. Let's go to the pictures. Those are emergency vehicles. We've just gotten this video in a few moments ago. They are headed to the polygamist ranch compound where law enforcement agents are executing search warrants.
The agents are now looking, we're told, for a 16-year-old girl who has reportedly been physically abused by men at the compound. So far, 137 children have been taken away from this compound. Most of them are girls. 18 of them are now in state custody. Why? Because authorities are saying the 18 had been abused or at were immediate risk for future abuse.
Once again, these are pictures that we're monitoring for you. All this developing as we speak and as we begin this newscast. Now, this all started with a raid Thursday night. According to a search warrant, authorities also are looking for a 50-year-old man. His name is Dale Barlow.
He's suspected of having married and fathered a child with a 16- year-old girl. A Texas prosecutor is telling us this is the photo of Barlow, the one we may have shown you just moments ago. When you do see it, we should let you know that is a photo from a previous arrest. They are looking for him as we speak.
Now about the compound, several months ago, I drove in to Eldorado and was able to get some of the first pictures of this secret compound in West Texas. Police and citizens and I talk to a bevy of them, all told we're OK with these people being here as long as they don't hurt the children.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): The followers of Warren Jeffs who live here call this 1,700 acre compound "Yearning for Zion" or YFZ. Isolated, enclosed, and still under construction, it's just three miles from main street Eldorado, Texas but a world away.
David Doran is the local sheriff. SHERIFF DAVID DORAN, SCHLEICHER COUNTY, TEXAS: Once Warren Jeffs was arrested, you know, we wanted to watch the community to see if there are any major changes.
SANCHEZ: It was Sheriff Doran who broke the news of Jeffs' arrest to the leader of the YFZ ranch.
What was his reaction to Warren Jeffs being arrested?
DORAN: Well, when I told them, it was no reaction verbally. But you could tell that the news was quite disturbing to them. Quiet, appreciated the information but did not elaborate.
SANCHEZ: A stunning blow, but it seems not even being arrested has diminished the authority of Warren Jeffs among his followers.
RANDY MANKIN, ELDORADO SUCCESS: He led this group from hiding. I think it may be easier for him to lead it from jail than it was for him to lead it while he was on the run.
SANCHEZ: Journalist Randy Mankin has been covering the Yearning for Zion Ranch here since the very first FLDS members moved here in 2004. He said Jeffs' grip is still very firm.
MANKIN: Now, he has one or two contacts with one or two people to make sure things are going the way he wants them to go in his enclaves.
SANCHEZ: We tried to get on the compound to ask the residents how they felt about the leader's arrest and what their future holds. But we encountered this locked gate and decided to have a look from above.
(on camera): It is 8:00 in the morning. It's been a month since Warren Jeffs was arrested. Now, we wanted to see the compound for ourselves. So we've asked local pilot, J.D. Doyle, to give us a flyover.
(voice-over): Only from the air can you appreciate the compound's massive size. A majestic 90,000 square foot temple cut from this limestone quarry.
J.D. DOYLE, PILOT: They could put up a 21,000 square foot building in 2 1/2 weeks and the building will be absolutely flawless.
SANCHEZ: There is also a water treatment plant. A 30,000 square foot homes and even a dairy, all necessary to shelter and feed the large polygamist families of this sect. Families that can have several wives and dozens of children. The sheriff confirms it's been business as usual at the ranch since Jeffs' arrests.
DORAN: As far as we can tell -- I mean, the day-to-day operations from what we see, from the outside looking in has not changed.
SANCHEZ (on camera): What is business as usual is the stories from runaways about young girls being forced to marry older men. That's what troubles the people of Eldorado.
(voice-over): Sheriff Doran says he has no evidence of anything illegal on the YFZ compound. But he has heard the stories.
DORAN: We're aware of that. And definitely, we're concerned about it. And of course the step is, we have to have a complaint come in to us. And as soon as that does, or if it does, then we will certainly act on it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right. So here's where we picked up the story right now. Apparently, that complaint has come in. Go ahead and put up the shot now. This fellow they are looking for. That's Dale Evans Barlow. That's a mug shot from a previous case. And police say they are looking for him there. They are also now searching the temple, we understand.
By the way, this brings us to where we are tonight. For the very latest on the suspect -- the police, let's take you now to Eldorado, Texas. CNN's Ed Lavandera standing by for us.
Ed, let me read to you what we're getting from the Associated Press. They are saying that the ambulances has had been sent into the area and that they are searching the area of the temple itself. There's talk about a possibility or at least preparation for showdown.
Eddie, the more I hear this, the more it starting to sound like something we've heard before Texas. That, as you know, was in Waco. What's really going on there?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, clearly, you know, the sensitivity to situations like this is very profound here in Texas. That's partially probably why the reason we are four miles away. The best shot we can provide you of this compound is from four miles away. We can show you that shot. That is the temple that's kind of glittering there in the darkness of night.
There is a helicopter overhead. About two hours ago, two ambulances were taken into the compound as well as some other medical personnel. We have been told by multiple law enforcement sources here in the Eldorado area that what they are doing is in abundance of caution at this point. As you mention, one of the only areas that has not been search in the last 48 hours is the temple area. And of course, Mormon faith is a sacred area.
SANCHEZ: What's stopping them from going in the temple right now? If they suspect that there could be a 16-year-old girl who's been abuse in there?
LAVANDERA: Well, we don't know if that 16-year-old girl is the reason why it might be tough to get in. You know, the sheriff as you talked to here is kind of like the diplomat in this situation. So they're trying everything in their power to make sure this is -- this runs smoothly. It's not -- does not devolved into a dangerous or violent situation. So they just wanted to continue searching. The goal here, they say, is to remove all of the children from inside this compound so that they can talk to them and that's what they are in the process of doing.
And of course, they have been able to search many of the residential buildings -- you know, the other buildings that are on this compound. The temple is the most sensitive. And if it does get in to a situation where someone starts to fight back -- as they prevent that from happening -- that's why these medical personnel have been brought into the compound tonight
SANCHEZ: So let me just clear this up for our viewers. As far as you know, there's no assurance that that 16-year-old girl or other children are still on the compound. But police and agents just want to go in and check for themselves to make sure that's the case.
Did I characterize that right?
LAVANDERA: They believe that there is still more children out there that they need to get off of the compound grounds. So that's why they continue to do that. What officials here are saying about this 16-year-old girl -- that is the reason why all of this has started. They are not sure if they've already pulled her out or if she's still in there. They still haven't been able to identify her.
They're still going through lengthy interview process with about 137 children that have been pulled out so far. They brought in CPS and child care workers from across the state to do these interviews. This is a slow process. You know, this is a -- as we were told, the situation where these kids have essentially been pulled out of the only atmosphere they've ever known, it's a delicate situation. These interviews were delicate. Have to be taken slowly. And that is why it's taken so long to kind of deal with it and try to figure out just who is who at this point.
SANCHEZ: All right. Ed, stand by. We're probably going to be coming back to you in just a little bit. We're looking now at the live pictures from Eldorado, Texas.
I can tell you from visiting this facility; it's very private, very secured. There's armed guards. Whenever you're looking at them, they're looking at you through night vision goggles. In fact, they have several areas they protect. There always been a lot of children in the area itself.
And I understand now that we have another guest who is going to join us. Someone considered him a quasi expert on this. He's been following this story for so long. This is Mike Watkiss. He is with TV station KTVK.
I've got a question for you. I know how secretive these guys are. How could police have gotten information from inside that compound if the folks inside that compound didn't want them to have that information? MIKE WATKISS, KTVK REPORTER: Well, a phone call was made on Monday of last week -- a 911 call. We don't know if it was the 16- year-old girl herself or someone acting on her behalf. But they called out on a 911 call and said that this 16-year-old girl who they now have told us has an 8-month-old baby. So this is a 16-year-old girl, 8-month-old baby.
They got a 911 call report saying that she had been physically and they've emphasized that -- not sexually, but physically abused. That's the allegation here. But bottom line is that phone call on Monday afternoon triggered this action, Rick.
I believe that law officers here in the State of Texas had been looking for an opportunity. A reason to go on to that compound because of the many concerns. All of the proven allegations of child abuse in Colorado City and Hillsdale, Utah. They wanted it on.
This was their justification to go on to that property. And they are now -- as Ed mentioned, they're searching every nook and cranny in that compound. And they are certainly going to look at that temple, because it's the biggest structure.
If they're going to hide somebody, that would be the logical place. There will be documents in there that will be of great value. A lot of rumors about what may be going on inside that temple. So, law officers are there. They're not going to go away before they have an opportunity to look in every room in that -- every building in that compound.
SANCHEZ: Looked at that temple many times. Flown over it many times with J.D. Doyle, so I'm sure you know out there. Do you believe from what you know of these folks that they will allow the police to go in to this temple which they seem to consider sacrosanct?
WATKISS: Absolutely sacrosanct. This is the holiest edifice in their entire society. It's the first temple that the fundamentalists have ever built. And so it has great importance to them.
Again, Mormons will object to any sort of comparison, but there is of course the shared history. And I can tell you among the Mormon faith, anybody who's not a temple worthy -- I have a lot of that nephews and nieces who are married in the Mormon temple. I can't go into that temple because I'm not worthy. I think the same is true here. People who are not deemed worthy are not supposed to -- you've got the...
SANCHEZ: You know what it sounds like, it sounds like the makings of a standoff? And we're down to about ten seconds. But does it not?
WATKISS: I want to point out that I have covered these people probably as long as any reporter in America. They do not have a history of violence towards the outside world. I would argue their violence is focussed internally towards the women and these girls. But no history of violence towards law enforcement officers. I've been in their grill many times. They guys could have taken a swing at me. They have never done so.
SANCHEZ: That's a good point. And by the way, as to be fair, at this point, we have not gotten any reports of any resistance at all coming from the compound itself. So we're going to stay on that as well.
Mike, hang by if you can as well. We maybe -- this thing could be developing over the next hour as we stay on top of the story. We're going to have the story covered as you might imagine from all angles. We're going to be reaching out to the sheriff's department in Eldorado, Texas where we've talked to that sheriff before. I have, when I visited the compound.
We're going to bring you developments as they happen. And we also going to talk to the pilot that you saw in the report, J.D. Doyle, who is also an expert on these folks who suddenly appeared in his community.
Also, if you could, Claude, take a shot at the folks that we've assembled here. They are group of people who know the story of abused young women only too well.
By the way guys, just curious -- are any of you surprised by these allegations. If you're surprised by these allegations, raise your hand. I didn't think you would be surprised at all, as a matter of fact. Hold on, we're going to get to you guys in just a minute.
The idea that men could treat women as property seems to be some of the allegations in this case. It sounds crazy. But these folks you just saw say it's not. We're going to have a no-holds-barred conversation with them, coming up in just a little bit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Larry, this makes no sense whatsoever. It seems like there's a real movement behind Obama right now. Real excitement, a real desire for change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh please, Dodd, it's the primaries. Just relax. Americans are only voting for the chance to vote for a black president. You see, once they get to the general election, I think they'll find the 73-year-old white Republican as just about the kind of change they're ready for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It's a funny line. It's also what's being expressed by a lot of people. A lot of African-Americans. And it really is a serious question.
If and when push comes to shove, can Barack Obama really win the white vote? I want to share a trend with you. Take a look at this. In states with less than 6 percent black voters, Obama does well. In states with 17 percent or more black voters, Obama also does well. But anything in between -- not so good. Not so good at all.
Now, the writer who's been tracking this trend, gets the credit for it is David Sirota. He's a senior editor for "In These Times."
David, thanks so much for joining us.
DAVID SIROTA, AUTHOR AND COLUMNIST: Thanks for having me.
SANCHEZ: You've been getting a lot of heat for saying this. Because what you're doing is you are essentially look, this thing could be black and white, which a lot of people don't want to talk about.
And most people will get the more than 17 percent. If the state has won 17 percent black population, Obama will probably do very well. What I don't get and probably what a lot of other people won't get who are watching us now is why in states with less than 6 percent African- American voting population would he also do well?
SIROTA: Well, I think it has to do with the idea that black, white, racial politics doesn't really exist in those states. In states like where I am -- I'm in Colorado. Black-white racial politics really is not part of the political dialect.
So the Hillary Clinton campaign's efforts to inject race into the campaign has had less traction. And so I think Obama has done quite well in those states where black-white politics just is not really a factor, especially not a factor in the Democratic primary.
SANCHEZ: So you're saying in states where there aren't a lot of African-Americans, people don't think about it enough and an African- American is more acceptable to them. And obviously in a state with a lot of African-Americans, an African-American is more acceptable as well. It's that place in the middle where there's what? Antagonism?
SIROTA: No, I would say that black-white racial politics exists in those states. But the black vote isn't big enough to counter a racially motivated white vote.
SANCHEZ: Hey, let me ask you this question. By this trend, which states will he now do better in that in the past Democrats traditionally wouldn't do so well in?
SIROTA: Well, I think he'll do -- he'll do well, probably in a place like -- in a place like Iowa. I think he could do very well in a place like -- in a place like Colorado.
SANCHEZ: In the general?
SIROTA: In the general election, yes. And I certainly think he could do very well in Virginia which the Democrats have lost. And Louisiana, I think would be competitive. I don't know if he could win it but he be more competitive.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting. Which states will he do worse than perhaps Democrats would normally do?
SIROTA: Right. I think he's going to have some trouble in places like Ohio, which Democrats haven't won but have said that they need to win. And I think he'd have some more trouble than perhaps a traditional Democrat in a place like Pennsylvania.
SANCHEZ: Both states that have less than six percent African- American?
SIROTA: Both states that have more than six percent African- Americans but less than 17 percent in that chasm.
SANCHEZ: That's fascinating. But here's one for you. What about the south? Because the south traditionally has been voting Republican across the board. But there are places in the south where they're not just 17 percent African-American voting population. It's much more than 17 percent. Doesn't that -- wouldn't that give him a shot that a Democrat wouldn't had in he past?
SIROTA: Well, you might think so. And I think, again, I think Louisiana he could be more competitive in than another Democrat. But here's the thing in the south.
SANCHEZ: But what about Mississippi and Alabama and Georgia, Carolina?
SIROTA: Right. Here's the thing in the south. Political scientist, Tom Schaller, has found that as the percentage of the black vote rises in the general election, the percentage of the white vote voting for Republicans actually goes up.
There is a correlation. The larger the black population, the more unified the white population has been, especially in Deep South states in voting for Republicans.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you -- is this a net loss for him as you see it? Or will it be a net win for him were he to be the presumptive candidate of the Democratic Party? This trend that you and others may be seeing?
SIROTA: It really, really hard to say. What I can say is that general election polls suggest what Obama has said. Is that really what we know is that the math really could change. That the states that are most contested could change. You could have states that Ohio could be for instance less contested and Colorado and Iowa could be more contested in the general election.
SANCHEZ: This is absolutely fascinating. The idea that red and blue, that most of us who follow this have in our minds is going to be completely flipped on its side.
David, thanks so much for bringing this to us. We appreciate it.
SIROTA: Thank you for having me.
SANCHEZ: Another big story staying with politics now.
Oh, Hillary, here we go again. First, it was Bosnia and the tales of ducking sniper fire. Now, it is a poor pregnant woman with no health insurance as the story goes who goes home and dies. Again, big questions about this story as it was told by Senator Hillary Clinton. Maybe the question in this one may be who was responsible for vetting these things before she says it?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's about real life experience and...
SANCHEZ (voice-over): It was the staple of Hillary Clinton's stump speech. She tells the story of a young pregnant woman in rural Ohio.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was in southern Ohio, down along the Ohio River, which is real beautiful country. And I was meeting with some local residents there. And a deputy sheriff told me this story.
He told me about a young woman who worked in this small town at a local pizza parlor. She made minimum wage. And she sure didn't have health insurance. Well, she got pregnant.
SANCHEZ: Turned away from a hospital when she couldn't pay.
CLINTON: She made minimum wage. She didn't have anybody saying, you know, minimum wage is a poverty wage. You can't make a living on minimum wage. She got pregnant. And she was having trouble. So she went to the nearest hospital. And I don't blame the hospital.
SANCHEZ: The young girl later lost the baby and then died of complications.
CLINTON: As I was listening to this story being told, I was just aching inside. It is so wrong in this -- such a good, great, and rich country that a young woman and her baby would die because she didn't have health insurance.
SANCHEZ: But now, there are questions about the accuracy of the story. An Ohio hospital says the young woman that Clinton refers to did lose the baby and did lose her life. However, she also did have insurance. And at least at their hospital, she was never turned away.
Clinton first learned of the young woman's story in a family living room back in February.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to tell you the story of a young woman I know that didn't have health insurance. She work in a little pizza place around here.
CLINTON: Well, you know, I hear so many stories like that. People without insurance are more likely to die than people with insurance.
And I hope that you all support me.
SANCHEZ: Clinton's stump speech accurately reflects what she was told that day. A spokesman says, the campaign had no reason to doubt the story. He says candidates often recall stories they hear on the trail and their staffs try to vet them.
In this case, he says, they weren't able to because of privacy rules. But the campaign says, it respects the hospital's information and will no longer repeat the story.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: As we stay on top of that story, let's take you back to this one. These are live pictures now from Eldorado, Texas. Police have moved into this compound. They're taken out about 137 children, most of them girls. Some of them, they think have been abused.
Police are now telling us they're back in the compound and they're trying to see if they can find more children, maybe a standoff at the temple. We're all over it.
Also, this -- the fiery former governor of Minnesota. You know he's outspoken, but you won't believe what Jesse Ventura has to say tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE VENTURA, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MINNESOTA: I'm the most powerful man in America. You know why?
LARRY KING, HOST, LARRY KING: Why?
VENTURA: I'm the only one who can get the Democrats in bed with the Republicans to oppose the moderate middle -- me. It happened in Minnesota.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. As we mentioned, there is a very important developing story. It's taking place in Eldorado, Texas. I think we've got some video that we can share with you. Some of it you'll see is live pictures.
It's very dark. It's at Eldorado compound there. A polygamist ranch that has been raided by police and now we're told they are going back into the facility, looking for children and that there might be a bit of a standoff at the temple because it's sacrosanct and they may not allow the police go in and look for the children. Many of them underage, some of them suspected of being abused.
J.D. Doyle is joining us now. He is the pilot you saw moments ago in my report. J.D., you and I had so many conversations about this. We always came to the conclusion that something like this would not be if but when. Did you know this was coming?
VOICE OF J.D. DOYLE, PILOT: Not a clue. This was one of those few times that -- that everybody was left out of the loop. They even closed the air space down to keep -- they kind of clipped my wings you can say. They closed the air space down to keep everything from interfering with them. They pulled this off -- and listen, they pulled this off without anybody getting hurt. That is something to be said.
SANCHEZ: Why do you say that? Did you expect that these people would resist in any way? Had they been -- tell me what's been going on there in the last several months since you and I were last together? Anything at all?
DOYLE: They've been building. I mean, they've building like little ants. In the last two months, they built five 21,000 square feet buildings and a machine shop and created a field and worked on a sewer. So we knew that the population was going to explode.
But other than that, these people work hard. They stay to themselves. They don't interfere with anything. And they don't really pose a threat to our local community anyway.
SANCHEZ: This is the place where they would go to heaven, right? From right there, that is the most sacrosanct ground for them -- these people.
DOYLE: That's the temple. You're not kidding. They believe that -- that the second coming will be soon. That this is the last vestige of the very holiest of people, which they believe they are. And that the Lord will lift them up, wipe out the gentiles, and then lower them back to -- to YFZ ranch.
SANCHEZ: And, of course, it was all about the men -- the older men. They made the calls, they made the decisions. They decided who would be going to heaven and many of these underage girls really were told who they would marry and who they would be sleeping with on any given night.
Is that correct?
DOYLE: That's correct. And now, that is -- these girls were like stripes on the soldier's uniform. The more stripes you had, the higher rank you had within their religion. So if you had more wives that made you more important. The people with more wives were always a higher rank with people with lesser wives. (INAUDIBLE) Warren -- nobody had more wives than Warren.
SANCHEZ: You know, it's just -- J.D., I got to go with our panel here, because this is interesting. I've assembled a panel tonight of women who know this type of story only too well.
Hang by, good friend. Maybe we'll be able to get back to you in just a little bit. It's inconceivable that a man would treat another fellow human being -- a woman, whether she's underage or not, as properties. As a deed to a house. But it seems to be at least in terms of allegation -- what's been going on here and what the history of this case in.
Let's go to our panel now if we possibly can. Let me introduce them to you. This is Lisa Krigsten. She's a federal prosecutor joining us. Who's going to be talking to us about a number of very important case in just a little bit. Also Shantique Wallace, she's here to talk about her own personal experience as a sex abuse victim -- talk about courageous. And Alicia Adams monitors these types of cases all over the country and she will tell you there are many more than you could ever possibly imagine.
Shantique, I want to begin with you because your situation is so personal. I bet you can relate to what some of these young ladies that are front and center in our newscast tonight are dealing with and have dealt with.
SHANTIQUE WALLACE, FORMER SEX ABUSE VICTIM: I most definitely can. I know how it feels to feel powerless and just be basically taken over, overwhelmed. Someone that just needs to feel more powerful than you. Needs to feel like he's God, you know and they're in this situation. And it's different because it's religion for them. So this is how they have been taught when they were growing up to believe. This is what they believe, you know?
SANCHEZ: Is these men treating women as property, ladies?
ALESIA ADAMS, SEX VICTIM ADVOCATE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: This case, as you sees it right now?
ADAMS: Yes, I do.
SANCHEZ: Does the religious burden make it even more difficult for them?
ADAMS: I think so. But you can see a lot of similarities in that you isolate the victim, you abuse the victim. There - and you keep them actually in slavery. So there is a lot of similarities to what is happening with children who are being prostituted and sexually abused on the street similar to this.
SANCHEZ: Lisa, let me bring you into this. People would ask why is it so hard for women who find themselves in this situation, whether it's a young lady in Utah or in Texas or one of these compounds that we've reported on. From a religious sect or just someone on the street who meets a man who takes over their lives.
Why can't they break away?
LISA KRIGSTEN, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE: Well, in my experience, Rick because I work with trafficking victims. There are several factors at play. One of the factors is these victims feel in fear of the person, the trafficker who has taken over their lives.
SANCHEZ: So it's all about the consequences that could come from. Stay right there. We want to get back to you guys in just a little bit. Because we're going to continue this discussion. We're going to continue talking about a special case that you guys have brought to us tonight. Thank you, ladies. War in Iraq. It's one of the most controversial issue's of this selection season. This man thinks war is simple.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE VENTURA, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MINNESOTA: I want someone I can respect. I want someone who -- who will understand that going to war is really a simple decision. You know how simple it should be, Larry?
A war is justified if you're willing to send your son. If you're not willing to send your son, then how do you send someone else's?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Also this -- why is Governor Jesse Ventura warning Barack Obama about his safety? He's going to join us here live in just a little bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: The former governor of Minnesota. He's living outside the United States. He has written a book about revolution. And he's even quoted as saying that Barack Obama should, quote, "watch out."
Now here's the quote. Let's put that up so viewers at home can see it. He's on a radio show and he says "I believe very strongly that if an independent candidate like myself -- a rogue -- were to get into the president's race legitimately, if the polls looked like he had a chance to win I believe that candidate would either be physically assassinated or would be assassinated credibility-wise or in some manner by our government because I do not believe they would allow a true independent or a citizen to become president of the United States. I say this in all seriousness." And he closed this by saying in this quote, "Watch out, Barack Obama."
Governor, you were there. Thanks so much for joining us. Obviously, the first question is what did you mean by that? Were you speaking figuratively, or literally, or what?
JESSE VENTURA, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MINNESOTA: Well, I firmly believe not necessarily that you'd be physically assassinated, but they sure would attempt to assassinate your credibility any way that they could, and not so much Barack.
Barack is part of a Democratic Party. So he would be protected and shielded if he becomes their nomination. It's still the two-party system in this country. But if a true independent like me, a rogue, who had no strings attached were to look like he might win the presidency, I -- I wonder what would happen to that person.
SANCHEZ: Do you think our government has done this before?
VENTURA: Have they done this before?
SANCHEZ: Yes. They assassinated the credibility of somebody or assassinated the person.
VENTURA: No, no. What they did was in '92 after Ross Perot got one out of five votes, 19.6 percent, they would not allow him to debate in the '96 elections because they took the debates away from the national league of women voters and they gave it to their creative federal debate commission which is headed by the Democrat and Republican leadership which was nothing but a rubber stamp.
And what happened was Dole didn't want Perot because it would hit his conservative base. Clinton didn't want debates at all. So they cut a deal, eliminated Perot. There were only two debates and they are on the same night as the World Series all done by design.
SANCHEZ: But some people would say that's just Machiavellian politics. That's a far cry from actually going out and assassinating the government's character through the work on the underpinnings of the United States government.
VENTURA: Machiavellian what?
SANCHEZ: A Machiavellian technique in other words that you're actually...
VENTURA: In other word's it's politics as usual?
SANCHEZ: Well that's what a lot of people would tell you on the left and right.
VENTURA: That what we recalled Democratic and Republican politics as usual then, I guess. OK, I would accept that. Because -- you know, let's look at something, Rick. These two parties now have us $9 trillion in debt.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
VENTURA: $9 trillion, between the two of them. I mean, I can't even fathom how much money that is. If they were in the private sector, they would be locked up and put in prison like Enron and WorldCom.
SANCHEZ: But it goes further with you. You and I had a conversation when we were sitting in New Jersey, I remember, were sitting on a bench. And you and I had a chance to talk for a long time.
And you were even convinced then, that you're not that's - there is still a part of you that believes that our government actually took out JFK. You're writing in your book now about other people in a conspiracy in RFK. Our viewers just finished watching a documentary about Martin Luther King being played by the government of the United States.
Do you believe that stuff?
VENTURA: Stuff? Absolutely, I do not believe the Warren Commission. I do not believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone as do the majority of citizens in the United States of America. Check out the polls. It's overwhelming that people don't believe Oswald was -- how come in the '60s, every assassination was a lone nut?
Martin Luther King was a lone-nut. John F. Kennedy was a lone- nut. Robert F. Kennedy was a lone-nut. We're to believe that there was virtually no conspiracy involved at all in any of those three assassinations. Is that what you're telling me?
SANCHEZ: I'm not here to argue with you but I am here (INAUDIBLE).
VENTURA: I'm not arguing but I'm going to throw question back at you, too, Rick. How does it feel?
SANCHEZ: Hold on. We've got to close out with this. Barack Obama says he is an agent of change. That he really will do something revolutionary if he is elected the president of this country. Do you feel at this point that candidacy represents that? And if so, do you think he has to really watch out?
VENTURA: I think that he wants to be a representative of change, but I don't think -- I don't think he'll be able to deliver it because he's still a member of the Democratic Party. He's a member of the status quo, two-party dictatorship that we have in this country.
And so, he may want to make the changes, but I highly doubt when push comes to shove in the end that he will be able to make the changes that he talks about that he will -- that he wants to attempt.
SANCHEZ: Jesse Ventura, former governor of Minnesota. Don't start the revolution without me. I'm going on vacation tomorrow and guess what I'm taking with me on the plane. Governor, thank you sir for taking time in your busy schedule to talk to us tonight.
VENTURA: Thank you, Rick. Always a pleasure. It's been a long time, and it was good to talk to you again.
SANCHEZ: Likewise, governor.
This story we're following as well. Women that are lured and held against their will. They were there to learn a sport, but they ended up as actual sex slaves in a pimp's lair. Stay with us. We're coming back with that.
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TERRI MILLER, ANTI-TRAFFICKING LEAGUE AGAINST SLAVERY: Sex trafficking is a $5 billion a year industry. Most human trafficking is related to sex labor.
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SANCHEZ: And welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. I want you to take a look at this guy right now. You see that? He's a convicted sex trafficker. His name is Harrison Norris Jr. He's a former professional wrestler, Gulf War veteran, by the way, who lied to eight women and duped them into becoming essentially sex slaves. He told them they were going to be -- going to a wrestling camp. For his crime, he's now received life in prison.
Let's bring in our panel. They know a little bit about this. Lisa Krigsten, with the U.S. Department of Justice. She's a prosecutor. Shantique Wallace, herself, a victim of forced prostitution. And Alicia Adams with the Salvation Army's anti-human trafficking tenth task force.
Lisa, let's start with you. You helped to convict this character. How was he able to hold these women, so many of them, for so long, many would ask.
KRIGSTEN: That's what's remarkable about these cases, Rick. Is that these victims say both because they're afraid to leave, because they're being abused, because they're being isolated, and because they believe in some instances they have no other options. So there's really a lot going on...
SANCHEZ: What was he doing to these women? I mean, psychologically and I guess physically within the bounds of what you can say on television?
KRIGSTEN: Well, the department -- you put a lot of resources into this investigation. And what came out in court is these women were victimized terribly. They were beaten. They were isolated from friends and family. They were made to feel as if they couldn't leave until they paid off an ever increasing debt. They were...
SANCHEZ: For sex? That was their end of the bargain.
KRIGSTEN: That was their end of the bargain. They were forced into prostitution.
SANCHEZ: Wow, Shantique, tell us as much as you can. I know it's a painful story and I think you're incredibly courageous to come here and tell it because there are other people who can fall into the same trap that you did. Tell us as much of your story as you possibly can within the realms of your own threshold of pain.
WALLACE: OK, well, the shortest version that I tell a lot of people are -- I had a best friend and she was dealing with an older guy. She was dealing with him. And he was just taking her out, buying her things and not thinking what was she doing to get this from him. I just wanted to be like her. I wanted to just have an older boyfriend that buy me stuff and take me places, make me feel good. You know?
SANCHEZ: But you ended up, I understand, for four days in prison.
WALLACE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: By this man? WALLACE: Yes. Him and another volunteer. He volunteered.
SANCHEZ: What happened to you -- what happened to you during those four days?
WALLACE: Those four days, I was tied down to a bed. I was told that I was going to be taken away from my family and I would never see my family again. If I went back home -- that I would be killed.
SANCHEZ: Were you sexually abuse?
WALLACE: They force me into prostitution. They made me sleep with another pimp so that they could sell me to him. And then I would be his problem.
SANCHEZ: Incomprehensible when you think of how someone could be treated that way. Almost like -- Alicia, less than human. How often does this happen?
ADAMS: It happens quite a bit. It's happening all over the country, Rick. Girls are kidnapped, seduced, lured into actually being prostituted and there's always someone who is profiting. It's not this child who is profiting. It is someone who is profiting from her body.
SANCHEZ: Can you quantify it? Is there any sense -- do we have any sense of how much this happens in the United States?
ADAMS: Numbers are hard to find. Numbers are extremely hard to find on these children. But they are kept in slavery. And you know, people ask, why didn't this kid run away. It's the Stockholm Syndrome.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It's not physical, it's in their head.
ADAMS: It's -- well, physical but physical abuse is used to control.
SANCHEZ: Right.
ADAMS: These guys are psychopathic and sadistic. And that's what they use to control. And these are children. Who's easier to manipulate than a child?
SANCHEZ: It's so important that you guys would join us and share these stories with us. Something the public often doesn't hear about. I'm so glad you guys came in and shared this information with us. Great panel. Thanks for being here.
Firefighters are battling intense flames now in Quebec. We've got some pictures that we're going to be sharing with you.
And coming in, it's some of the most amazing video that you will see tonight.
Also, how do you walk away from something like this? It's a NASCAR driver. And believe it or not -- watch -- this continues. Walks away. The rest of that when we come back.
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SANCHEZ: We're back and we have some pictures to share with you. First, we're going to go to Quebec. Quebec City in Canada. Firefighters couldn't save one of the most city's historic buildings there.
It was an armory that was built in 1884. Nobody inside. When this fire started, we've been monitoring the pictures over the last couple of hours. Watching them here on some of our own monitors. Building is scheduled to host an event for the city's 400th anniversary this year. Not anymore.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the part of the racetrack. Oh, I can't hardly watch that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, it is tough to watch, isn't it? Unbelievable pictures. This is the Texas Motor Speedway. Rookie NASCAR's Michael McDowell briefly losing control of his car. Entering the first turn and then he tried to overcorrect and he flipped, not once but twice.
But here's the amazing part. There he is. He's walking away. The car is up in flames. He's walking away. And at one point, you can actually see he waves to the crowd despite the fact that he does look a little bit wobbly nonetheless.
What does an FBI recorded sex tape have to do with Martin Luther King Jr.? We'll tell you, when we come back.
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SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. Before we let you go this week, America remembered Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He was assassinated 40 years ago. My colleague, Soledad O'Brien and CNN Special Investigations Unit, put together a fascinating documentary. It's called "EYEWITNESS TO MURDER: THE KING ASSASSINATION."
Some of the things that she found out, well, they might just shock you. Here's a sample.
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ANDREW YOUNG, FORMER KING AIDE: A bunch of guys were in the room, clowning, and they were having a very good time. And then, it quieted down, and someone was left in the room and was record in the act of sexual intercourse. And they assumed it was Dr. King.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When Dr. King won the Nobel Prize, the FBI mailed an anonymous package to Dr. King's office. On it, highlights from the sex tape with an ominous note. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are a colossal fraud and an evil, vicious one at that. The American public will know you for what you are, an evil, abnormal beast. King, you are done.
YOUNG: The implication was that this was supposed to provoke him to suicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A special CNN investigation, "EYEWITNESS TO MURDER: THE KING ASSASSINATION." This is must-see TV. Two-hour event, coming up. It's at 11:00 Eastern. Right here after our program. And we will be right back.
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SANCHEZ: What an amazing show. We'll continue to follow the very latest. It's coming out of Eldorado. Thanks so much for being with us. Our thanks to the panel. And now, a special CNN investigation, "EYEWITNESS TO MURDER: THE KING ASSASSINATION."
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