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Fanning the Flame: Torch Protests in San Francisco; Travel Troubles: American Flight Cancellations; The War & The Way Ahead
Aired April 09, 2008 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning again, everyone.
You're with CNN. You're informed.
I'm Tony Harris.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Brianna Keilar, sitting in for Heidi Collins.
HARRIS: Developments keep coming into the CNN NEWSROOM on Wednesday, the 9th of April.
Here's what's on the rundown.
KEILAR: Rowdy crowds greeting the Olympic torch on the streets of San Francisco today. Live coverage.
HARRIS: Has the Iraq war opened the homeland to attack? A top House Democrat makes the charge. The war commanders under fire in Congress.
KEILAR: American Airlines stranding thousands of passengers today. Wiring inspection do-over -- in the NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: And at the top of the hour, police on high alert in San Francisco today. The Olympic torch is in town and the city is expecting big protests.
CNN's Ted Rowlands is following the action in the city by the bay.
Ted, good morning to you. Set the scene, if you would, for us.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Tony.
The scene is you can already start to feel what is going to be an increasingly tense situation. We're at the beginning of the torch run, and already there are hundreds of folks lining the route the torch will be going.
These are all pro-Chinese people. Of course, in the next few hours, the thousands of demonstrators who are anti-Chinese and anti- Olympic -- Beijing Olympics are going to be intermixing with the crowd. The torch is going to be thrown into the mix.
The bottom line here is folks in San Francisco are nervous that there could be trouble today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS (voice-over): It was all smiles for the carefully orchestrated arrival of the Olympic flame, but clearly the city of San Francisco is bracing for trouble. After watching the chaos in London and Paris, San Francisco police admit they're concerned the same problems could erupt along the planned six-mile San Francisco torch route, which they may end up changing at the 11th hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Things still are subject to change based on the information that we receive. The goal is to have a safe event for everybody, the spectators and the participants.
ROWLANDS: Torch bearer Marilyn King knows firsthand the worst case scenario of the Olympic stage. The two-time Olympian was in Munich in 1972 when 11 Israeli athletes and coaches were killed by terrorists. She also lost her chance to compete in the 1980 Olympics because of the U.S. boycott in Moscow. She is planning to run with the Olympic torch even though she is concerned that something may happen.
MARILYN KING, OLYMPIAN: There are always people who are willing to step outside of those boundaries, so I have some anxiety about that.
ROWLANDS: Protesters have already made their presence felt in San Francisco with the precision-planned Golden Gate Bridge stunt that included using baby carriages to sneak in banners and climbing equipment past police.
PROTESTERS: China!
ROWLANDS: Several organizations held demonstrations Tuesday, including actor Richard Gere's International Campaign for Tibet. Gere sat down with us to discuss the torch protest which he describes as extraordinary.
RICHARD GERE, ACTOR: The whole world seems to spontaneously react to this situation, and know that it's a fraud what the Chinese are doing. It's a fraud. This is not an athletic game to them. This is pretty much a stamp of approval on repression and human rights abuses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop lying to the world!
CROWD: Stop lying to the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: China lie, people die!
ROWLANDS: San Francisco is the only North American torch stop in the world including China. We'll be watching to see what happens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: People will be watching very closely how all the different factions mix along the parade route. It is a potential law enforcement nightmare because of the length of the route and how open it is.
Again, they may shorten the route if they deem it is a problem going forward. Every single San Francisco police officer is on duty today, or was overnight in preparation for this. They pulled back everybody from vacation. They are also getting help from the FBI and others.
Watching very closely, hoping there won't be a repeat or an escalation of what happened in London and in Paris -- Tony.
HARRIS: Hey, Ted, any thought that this might be too much of a risk to take, any thought being given to actually canceling the relay race?
ROWLANDS: Not canceling the event here, but I can tell you, this will cut it short if they have to. Everything is on the table.
In Paris, you saw the torch bearers at times -- they actually took the torch and they put it in a van. They may do that here. They may blow out the torch.
That's not the Olympic flame. The Olympic flame is in that glass case. The torch itself is lit from it, but they'll most definitely take that away.
They will also be watching the torch bearers themselves. We have been talking to a lot of these organizations. They say they have some torch bearers that plan to demonstrate when they have the world's attention, when they get that torch, do something in support of Tibet. What that is we don't know.
HARRIS: Oh boy.
ROWLANDS: And if they'll do it, we don't know. And what will be the reaction?
The other they'll be watching, the Chinese security that come with the torch to protect the flame. These are folks highly trained, paramilitary guys. The people in the blue sweat suits you saw in Paris...
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
ROWLANDS: ... came under a lot of -- they came under a lot of criticism because they thought they were too militant, and they -- people thought that they excited and enticed people. Those folks will be under the microscope as well as this six-mile, one and a half to two-hour event, unfolds here in about five hours.
HARRIS: Boy. As you know, very few guarantees in life. But it seems a sure bet that this event will be disrupted at some point.
Ted Rowlands for us in San Francisco.
Ted, appreciate it. Thank you.
And CNN will bring you live coverage of the torch run and the events leading up to it all day. And if you would like to see the complete Olympic torch relay route, just check out a CNN.com special report, "Countdown Olympics 2008." There you will find an interactive guide, and you can send and share your iReports as the torch passes through your area. Again, cnn.com/olympics.
KEILAR: Travel troubles, we have been telling you about this morning because American Airlines canceled another 850 flights today. That's a whole bunch of flights. Now, the airline is re-inspecting wiring on its MD-80 jets.
So let's get the latest live from Chicago. We are going to reporter Regina Waldroup. She's with our affiliate CLTV.
And Regina, what are travelers up against there?
REGINA WALDROUP, REPORTER, CLTV: Well, Brianna, they are up against long lines and lots of other frustrated passengers. Just take a look at this line.
Now, this line has been here since this morning. It keeps on growing and growing. So far, more than 130 American Airlines flights here in Chicago have been canceled. More cancellations, well, they're on the way for tomorrow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALDROUP (voice over): More travel troubles for airline passengers.
BEV GORDAN, TRAVELER: I'm very annoyed. Very, very annoyed. And I blame the politicians.
WALDROUP: The nation's largest air carrier is canceling hundreds of flights as it tries for second time to comply with federal rules about wiring on its fleet of MD-80 aircraft.
TIFFANY BETTS, TRAVELER: This morning it was crazy. They only had two people working the front. And then -- it was just crazy.
WALDROUP: The jets had been pulled out of service so the wiring in the wheel wells can be re-inspected, and displaced passengers are clearly frustrated.
EILENE ISAACS, TRAVELER: These inspection processes are not random. They're not something that they suddenly surprise an airline with.
SUE GARDNER, TRAVELER: It is a hassle. And we were supposed to be home last night. And I have got people back at my place where I work in Florida waiting. You know, they're expecting me back.
WALDROUP: Bev Gordan is headed to Florida for a wedding.
GORDAN: They canceled our flight last night. My husband was on the phone all night trying to get other transportation.
WALDROUP: The airlines rebooked Gordan on a Delta flight, but she is still annoyed with this huge hassle.
GORDAN: They knew this was happening with the airplanes. So why do we, the common folk, have to suffer?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALDROUP: Now, Brianna, American says it won't know how many flights will be canceled tomorrow until it gets a read on how quickly mechanics and inspectors can look at those MD-80s and get them back in the air. In the meantime, American is trying to accommodate passengers who have been displaced by getting them on other flights, on American or other airlines -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Regina, that woman is going to get to that wedding though, right?
WALDROUP: She's going to get to the wedding, but she may have to make two or three stops before she gets there.
HARRIS: Oh!
KEILAR: Oh, that is so not fun. OK. So this is what people are up against.
Regina Waldroup for us with our affiliate CLTV.
Thanks so much for that live report.
HARRIS: The military, diplomacy, politics -- you know, there are a lot of moving parts. A lot of elements weaved into the Iraq war debate. And we want to walk you through it.
CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon, and Jill Dougherty is in Baghdad.
First, the military. Let's check in with CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr.
Barbara, General Petraeus was asked to give a grade to the Iraqi military this morning. What did he have to say?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you thought this was Petraeus' report card on Iraq, Tony, that's exactly right. He came up with a grade.
As the hearing continues, although it's in a short break now, General Petraeus, a little while ago, said he would give the Iraqi forces a B minus. Somewhere in the B-grade range. That would be a big improvement over their past performance.
General Petraeus reflecting on the fact that in the recent fighting in Basra, many Iraqi security forces fought on, but some did not. There were Iraqi police units that were overwhelmed and intimidated and really did not join in the fight.
Now, all of this takes Petraeus to the fundamental question on day two that he got asked again -- when can more U.S. troops come home from Iraq? When can they go beyond the withdrawal of the surge forces and go down to what they call 15 brigades?
Here is what General Petraeus had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you foresee the reduction beyond the 15?
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDING GENERAL, MULTINATIONAL FORCES, IRAQ: I can foresee a reduction beyond the 15, yes, sir. Again, the key is, in fact, we are looking at four or five locations already that we have an eye on, looking to see if those conditions can be met there. Again, we have a number of months and a number of substantial actions to take before then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: General Petraeus, Tony, is not going to let himself get too pinned to the wall on when those next reductions might happen. But it is worth noting the next brigade after the surge end is due to come home in September, and there will have to be a decision about whether they do continue to be replaced by fresh troops which was what the orders say now, or they are not replaced and, in fact, the troop levels decline further in Iraq -- Tony.
HARRIS: I've got a question about whether -- you know, a B was pretty good for me in school. I've got to wonder -- and maybe we just don't know the answer yet -- whether a grade of A for the Iraqi forces is necessary before the general recommends a drawdown beyond the surge level. But maybe that's still to come in the hearing.
Barbara Starr -- you have a thought on that, Barbara?
STARR: Well, I was just going to say, I don't think anybody thinks it's going to be an A anytime soon by all indications. There will be a substantial U.S. presence in that country for some time under current policy.
HARRIS: Just wanted to tease that out just a bit further.
Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us.
Barbara, thanks.
KEILAR: And, of course, General David Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker talking about Iraq. How are their comments playing on the ground there?
Let's head to Baghdad and CNN's Jill Dougherty.
What is the reaction there, Jill? JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are not -- officials here are not specifically reacting to all of that testimony. But they are reacting to one very crucial point which is the one that Barbara was talking about just a minimum ago. And that is whether those drawdowns of troops can continue.
And you have the prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki, saying that there's no reason to stop those withdrawals. They can proceed. And in a touch of bravado, he said, "Our Iraqi security forces are strong, they are getting stronger, and as they continue to improve, the U.S. troops can draw down and go more into a supportive role."
You also had similar words coming from the Iraqi ambassador to the United States, who said that, "U.S. forces have to leave in a responsible manner, but ultimately we do want them to leave."
Brianna.
KEILAR: And Jill, there on the ground, what is the situation there today?
DOUGHERTY: This anniversary of the fall of Saddam Hussein, and right here in Baghdad, the capital, significant violence. You had, first of all, in Sadr City, the Shiite-strong area, neighborhood in the northeast, clashes between the Iraqi security forces backed up by the U.S. forces.
They were fighting the Mehdi army. You also had some mortar attacks there. And if you look back over -- actually, since Sunday, the violence there has claimed 66 lives, 243 people wounded, injured.
We also have a curfew here in Baghdad. Very little traffic. Almost none on the streets of Baghdad.
The Green Zone -- and that's where the U.S. Embassy and Iraqi government offices are located -- they had two rounds of mortar attacks last night, and today again. Luckily, nobody reported killed injured in that -- Brianna.
KEILAR: All right. Jill Dougherty for us there in Baghdad with the latest.
Thank you.
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: Happening now in the CNN NEWSROOM, you are watching firefighters in West Bloomfield, Michigan, rescue residents of an assisted living facility.
HARRIS: Oh, look at this.
KEILAR: You can see that firefighter right there helping an elderly person out of this residence. These pictures coming to us from our affiliate WDIV.
And what we know from our affiliate is that firefighters are there on scene. They're battling the blaze.
This fire reportedly started on the third floor of this three- story building. Now, where the firefighters are standing there on that landing, on that balcony, that is the third floor. So the fire started somewhere near there. And obviously, they are evacuating residents.
HARRIS: Can you imagine how scary this is?
KEILAR: Terribly scary.
HARRIS: I'm thinking about that woman right there. I mean, how scary it must be for her. The firefighter so patient.
KEILAR: Sure, definitely patient. And, you know, these are folks who are not nimble.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
KEILAR: They are not nimble. So this is very scary for them, and obviously they need assistance. So you see the firefighters there helping them down the ladder, very carefully, very slowly.
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: This, again, a fire at an assisted living center in West Bloomfield, Michigan.
We are going to continue to follow this story here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
But again, these pictures coming to us from our affiliate WDIV, West Bloomfield, Michigan, as we said.
HARRIS: Third floor?
KEILAR: This is on the third floor. This is a three-story building. And you can see, it appears there is a firefighter on either side of the ladder, securing the ladder.
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: And I'm not sure if there is some sort of hang-up here, because they paused for quite a while.
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: It looks like a...
HARRIS: I don't know how far down we're talking here. And do we have an indication -- I'm asking you, Brianna, and the folks in the booth as well, how many people are on this third floor that might need some help at this point? We see two ladders now assisting these folks.
As we try to get that number, it looks as though -- perhaps we'll widen out -- it looks as though firefighters seem to have the fire itself under control. I don't see flames, at least, shooting through the -- although I do -- and there's some smoke passing in front of the frame just a moment ago. But you can see from this shot here how delicate an operation this is.
KEILAR: And no doubt, many of these people -- this is an assisted living center, after all -- many of these people are bedridden. So this is the kind of situation that takes a lot o delicacy on the part of firefighters, because they have to go in, they have to find people. And those people are really in a precarious situation because they are not going to be able to get themselves out of a center like this.
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: This, again, coming to us from WDIV. These are pictures out of West Bloomfield, Michigan. A fire at an assisted living center.
Of course, we haven't seen any flames, but there is a lot of smoke. And there are many...
HARRIS: I can see the smoke.
KEILAR: Yes, definitely see the smoke. And a whole lot of firefighters on scene here trying to rescue some of these elderly residents from this assisted living center.
We're going to continue to follow this here in the CNN NEWSROOM. We will bring you any developments as they come in.
HARRIS: OK. I just -- I -- boy, I can help but want to watch the efforts -- particularly this particular effort right here.
I'm sorry, Brianna. To get this -- I believe this woman down from the third story of this building, 30 to 40 feet. It would be my guesstimation on how high up they are right now. So that's one, two -- at least three ladders now working to get these folks out of this facility.
And it's frankly pretty dramatic stuff. I know there are other things we have to work into the newscast, but, again, this is pretty dramatic as we watch this out of Bloomfield, Michigan, right now.
KEILAR: And one of things that we're seeing -- this is kind of interesting. We saw a couple of firefighters here on this landing, on this balcony. They have taken what appear to be some sort of sheet or towel. They wrapped it actually under the arms of this woman that they are trying to help down.
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: And I'm not exactly sure what they are doing, but they are obviously trying to support her in some way. But they are really not...
HARRIS: And reassure her, I would imagine, as well.
KEILAR: Sure. They are not making any downward progress at this point.
HARRIS: No.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: But obviously they are having some difficulties. As we said, a very precarious with some potentially -- and you can definitely assume some infirm elderly people who are really -- have to be helped by firefighters to get out.
HARRIS: Any indication yet -- and I'm going to try and check the wire here in just a moment -- of how this might have started and when? We'll try to get some of the basic questions answered for you.
OK, great. Thanks, Tom.
We are getting 10:30 local time as to when this actually started. Still working on how many fire companies might have responded, what kind of additional resources are available to these firefighters.
And in this one scene here, you can clearly see that the firefighters are having a difficult time with this particular person here. They were down -- maybe halfway down the ladder, and then have just reversed course here and are going back up the ladder right now. And I don't know what the issue at play is, but it seems to me obvious from the pictures that this is a person that needs to be reassured that this can happen and that this person can get down the ladder to the bottom. And we are just not there yet.
KEILAR: Sure. And maybe there is too much difficult, and there's obviously some danger.
I mean, this is three stories up. Having to bring a person down a ladder, that is a very, very fragile situation. And obviously, they are taking all precautions here, not wanting to go down the ladder.
HARRIS: And maybe we can turn to some of the pictures from just a little earlier, someone being rescued from that floor, from one of the ladders, where we actually gave you a look at how difficult and tricky this is.
Did we actually see a firefighter who was carrying someone down as the firefighter was traversing down the ladder? And just imagine that for a second.
I believe we have those pictures. We will get them to you in just a moment.
But this is the scene I was describing just a moment ago. So you are actually carrying someone down, getting an assist from a buddy, obviously, as you are coming down the ladder. OK. Now I think you have an idea of how tricky a rescue operation we are witnessing here is. This is -- this is really tricky.
KEILAR: And what you see here is, obviously, this person this firefighter is carrying down is able to grasp his shoulders. We saw the other woman they were trying to bring down. They were unable to do that, it appears.
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: Perhaps she couldn't aid as much as this person here was able aid.
HARRIS: That's such a great point, because you need some -- you need an assist from the person who is being carried for stability sake here. But these are the pictures from a short time ago.
I mean, this is pretty dramatic stuff here. How difficult this rescue operation is. A lot of people on the ground there to assist and get these people to a safer place, obviously. But, man, how complex an operation is that?
KEILAR: And apparently this happened in about the 10:00 hour local, on the third floor of this third-story building, an assisted living center in Bloomfield, Michigan. These are live pictures that you are looking at from our affiliate WDIV.
You can see a couple of firefighters. They've actually just brought a second ladder over to this balcony.
They have been trying to bring a woman down. They have been having quite a bit of difficulty in doing that. They went back on to the balcony with the woman, and now it appears they are getting more help from another firefighter, another who's brought another ladder.
HARRIS: Yes. Trying to get a better fix on the location here.
Bloomfield, Michigan, I know it's -- that's our Detroit affiliate there, WDIV. Probably just one of the Detroit suburbs right now.
An assisted living facility, Brianna?
KEILAR: That's right. And we don't know the cause here, but we do know from past -- whether it's -- from the past, past incidents, whether it's a fire, whether it is flooding, that when you are in a situation with an assisted living center, there's so much of a vulnerability. And that's why we pay so much attention to this, because there are so many elderly people living there who may be infirm.
They may bedridden, and they're really needing the assistance of other people if something bad happens, whether it be a fire or a flood. And we have seen that many times in the past.
HARRIS: And Tom, check me on this -- the Hechtman Federation Apartments. That's the building in question here, West Maple Road.
If, as you watch this, you are familiar with the area, West Maple Road -- let me make a note of this to myself here -- Hechtman Federation Apartments.
KEILAR: And here you can really see -- obviously, there are no flames, but there continues to be a whole lot of smoke coming from the third floor. We just saw in that wider shot quite a bit of smoke coming from the roof. So this continues to be an issue.
Firefighters there are trying to get a handle on this. And in the same breath, they are trying to evacuate people as well.
HARRIS: Well, we can't go anywhere, friends, until we so this rescue, this successful operation -- fingers crossed here, obviously -- of this particular woman, because the firefighters have been trying to get her down for at least the last 10 minutes, and probably some period of time before we joined the action. Two ladders now being employed to try to make this rescue, this particular rescue happen.
Again, just to recap, just a moment ago, with this particular woman, the firefighters were about at this place a short time ago, and then started for whatever reason to head back up the ladder. A second ladder was brought in.
You see two firefighters. Is there a third there? I'm trying to make it out. Two firefighters now working together in tandem on this particular rescue. And, I'm sorry, we just can't leave these pictures until this woman is safely on the ground.
KEILAR: But we just want to give you a sense, too, of where this is happening. West Bloomfield, Michigan, this is about 15 to 20 miles northwest of downtown Detroit.
HARRIS: Oh, great.
KEILAR: So this is very much a suburb of Detroit.
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: You can imagine, probably if you live in a suburb, there are many assisted live flag silts. This one, especially a rather large one, you can see this building.
HARRIS: It's quite a complex isn't it?
KEILAR: Yes, a Y-shaped building here. There's another one in the foreground. So, many seniors living in this facility --
HARRIS: Well, why did we lose the picture of the woman close to the ground? I can't -- oh, well.
KEILAR: Now the smoke really appears to be coming from the other side of the building from where the rescues are happening. The rescues happening on the far side of this Y-shaped building near -- happening from the third floor which is where we understand that the fire started. You can see there on this far side of the building a whole lot of smoke coming. You can see a staging area for some firefighters as they're trying to fight this fire and also evacuate residents.
HARRIS: OK. So, the firefighters are so close to the ground. Can we assume for the moment here, because of a little distress, I wanted to see that particular woman get to the ground safely, that she made it OK? Is Mike Brooks on the line with us? Mike has -- wears a couple of hats for us. I know he is a law enforcement analyst.
I believe he -- did he spend some time as a firefighter in the early days of his career. But -- OK. Get Mike up in just a couple of moments. But, I'm assuming here, Brianna, that this particular woman, the woman whose story we were following --. OK, Mike, you there?
VOICE OF MIKE BROOKS, FMR. ASSISTANT FIRE CHIEF: I'm here with you Tony.
HARRIS: Hey, Mike. Good to talk to you. We have been watching these dramatic pictures out of Bloomfield, Michigan. Did you spend time as a firefighter in the early days of your career?
BROOKS: Well, I spent up -- until early 2000, I was assistant volunteer chief in Fairfax, Virginia, and I'm still actually a member of the International Association of Fire Chiefs. So, yes I've --
HARRIS: Terrific.
BROOKS: -- been involved with things like this before.
HARRIS: Hey, Mike, this looks pretty tricky. We're at an assisted living facility for one. So, there are all kinds of issues there to work through if you're firefighters. You are up on the third floor here, so we're talking anywhere from 30 to 40 feet to the ground. And, we have seen, as you are looking at pictures now, some pretty dramatic rescues.
BROOKS: Yes, Tony I tell you with assisted living facilities such as this, I'm glad to see it is only a three-story building that you're talking about.
HARRIS: Can you imagine? Yes.
BROOKS: Absolutely. When you see the firefighters, these rescues, all with using these ground ladders, very, very dangerous. But, what the firefighters have done -- I know most jurisdictions, where they have assisted living, they go out and do a lot of preplanning. So, if there is a (inaudible) a fire, in a particular area, location, they can know exactly what patients need, certain assistance.
We see these patients, elderly patients cannot get out on their own, so they're having to bring them down off (PH) ground ladders. These guys are doing a great job with the truck companies, engine companies. It looks like they made a very aggressive attack initially. You still see some smoke up in the -- looks like almost an attic area that they are trying to get to.
But, while they are trying to put the fire out, we have got the other firefighters with ground ladders and the aerial ladders performing these rescues, and they are doing one heck of a job so far, Tony.
KEILAR: This is video that you are seeing right now from just moments ago. Well, right before you were seeing a woman who had come -- or a patient who had come down a ladder, and this is another woman. This was a little more difficult for firefighters to bring this woman down.
But just want to let you know we are now hearing there are no reports of serious injuries. Tremendously good news, because as we said before this is a very delicate situation. When you have something like a fire in an assisted living center. We just heard from Mike how vulnerable these folks are.
HARRIS: Hey, Mike, just another thought here. As you were talking there and describing the preplanning that goes into this, I'm just reminded -- and it is -- it is great we are seeing the pictures we are seeing right now, the potential is here in these situations for just a catastrophic event. But -- what you are saying to us is that the firefighters go to these facilities and work out contingencies.
BROOKS: Absolutely. They work -- they work very closely with the staff, Tony, on if -- you need to be evacuated, whether it be for a haz material instant or fire -- an actual fire like we are seeing right here. They will know exactly what kind of life safety issues are involved with different patients there within the facility. And the staff will assist them with that when they arrive (PH) on the scene.
HARRIS: Hey, Mike, are you able to watch these pictures?
BROOKS: Yes, I sure am. I'm watching it with you.
HARRIS: Great. So, as you see the smoke, it is the white smoke, are we still dealing in your estimation from your experience, with a fire event, or a smoke event? What do you think we are dealing with here?
BROOKS: Well, usually where there is smoke there's some kind of fire, Tony. Looks like kind of a light gray smoke. Looks like they got a 35-foot ground ladder there that they are trying to put up to the top there. So, we don't know if there is any people in that top area there. But they may have gotten to the fire.
But one of the of the things you worry about after the initial fire attack, Tony, is the extension of the fire. Did it get up into the walls? Did it get into the ceiling? Into any hidden spaces? And that's why you get the truck companies and firefighters in there. They will get in there, along with hand lines, and they'll try to open up those walls to look for fire in any of the small concealed spaces.
HARRIS: And the reason I was -- what I was trying to get at is that there was a point when the essentially is extinguished, when you still get a lot of smoke. But, you still think that there is probably some kind of a fire event going on here.
BROOKS: There probably is. There's different stages of a fire. They get in to their initial offensive and rescue mode. And then, that's what they're probably in now. And that's where they are trying to get into, rescue anyone. They will do what they call a primary -- they'll do a primary search, looking for any other victims. That's what you see them bringing down.
Then, after they get the fire extinguished and they get everyone out -- who they think they have out, they will go through and do a secondary search. And the command officer there will be talking with his officers inside the structure safety officer and other additional (INAUDIBLE) to find out exactly what's going on inside that building and keep everyone in the command staff advised of any life safety issues.
KEILAR: And, Mike, I just want to let our viewers know there are still people in this building. Again, this is a fire at an assisted living center in West Bloomfield, Michigan it's about 15 to 20 miles northwest of downtown Detroit. This is very much a suburb of Detroit.
And at this point, Mike, we don't know of the cause. But, talk to us about -- I mean, this kind of thing happens perhaps every day across the U.S. every few days. These kinds of things, they happen quite a bit. Talk to us about possible causes.
BROOKS: Well, one thing they will do, is the first arriving firefighters will talk to the people who discovered the fire, and as the rescue is going on, they will have the fire investigative respond there to try to determine what the cause and origin of the fire was. Was it -- a discarded smoking material? Was it electrical? Could it have been some other reason (PH) -- workers working on the building?
There's a host of reasons why this fire could have started. It could be just accidental. They will go in to see if there is any arson involved. Again, we don't know, but this is all things that go into the initial cause and origin investigation of a fire while it is -- when it is first discovered.
KEILAR: But, generally what would be the first cause if you were to take -- I'm not asking to you take it guess. But is it generally a cigarette maybe that starts something like this a lot of the time? Or, is it something else?
BROOKS: No, most places now don't have smoking. I would say a number of years ago in an assisted living space you may have had discarded smoking material. I doubt seriously -- in this particular jurisdiction if they do allow smoking in buildings like this. It could be electrical. It could be a number of different things. I really don't want to speculate any kind of initial cause right now.
HARRIS: Mike -- for folks who are just joining us, 11:37 in the east, what we are dealing with here is a fire at an assisted living facility. This is in West Bloomfield, Michigan just outside of Detroit. And we have seen a couple of pretty dramatic rescues, to be frank about it.
If you would, Mike, as we take a look at pictures from one of the rescues, talk us through if you would, the process and work here the scene that's being played out, and the -- initial steps of firefighters as they try to assess the situation and make these really dramatic rescues.
BROOKS: Well, what most likely happened, Tony, you see the firefighters who are there and about that have the little tanks on their backs, that's their self-contained breathing apparatus with fresh breathing air.
They probably went in, found this woman there, told the location where they were, and then you see the other firefighters that do not have on the SCBAs -- they are the ones that came up the ladders easier to work with as your SCBA on and those are the ones that are performing the rescues with these ground ladders.
Now keep in mind, Tony, people who've worked on ladders before, you can keep -- you got to put it in perspective when you are painting your house, how difficult it is to operate a ladder, but how difficult it is for the firefighters bringing down a patient, on one of these ladders. It's very, very difficult and very, very dangerous.
But looks like they are performing a lot of rescues, and hopefully -- and it's amazing what you just reported just moments ago, Tony, that there have been no serious injuries. Because usually, when you have a fire in an assisted living facility such as this, when the patients aren't ambulatory, the can't walk out and have you to be rescued there's usually (PH) some kind of tragedy.
But it sounds like these firefighters got a really good knockdown on the initial attack and are doing a hell of a job on the rescues, Tony.
KEILAR: Mike, is it preliminary to say that there are no reports of serious injuries?
BROOKS: That's what they are saying right now. Again, this is all probably during the primary search. They are doing two things right now. They are trying to suppress the fire, they're trying to put -- the wet stuff on the rest (PH) while they are trying to perform rescues.
So, I don't know exactly how large -- which means how many firefighters and apparatus there, but usually will go ahead and call -- when you have any kind of fire involvement in an assisted living facility, your initial response by firefighters is going to be a little bit more people, more apparatus and more personnel than it would be for a normal fire, but when you get on, you've got heavy smoke (INAUDIBLE) or you've got some kind of fire -- and it's declared a working fire, you (INAUDIBLE). If I was a chief, I would go ahead and declare a second alarm right away, just to get additional manpower and equipment.
HARRIS: Well, you know, you make a great point there, Mike, and I was just about to ask you that. I asked you a question earlier about whether or not because of the smoke you had a sense as to whether or not this was principally a smoke event now or if perhaps we were still dealing with a fire event. We've been watching these pictures for 15 minutes now. It would seem obvious to me that we're still talking about some kind of a fire event now. And still people on the third floor of that building.
I'm just curious, have you ever been involved in this kind of a fire at a facility leak this, because I'm just curious about the state of mind of the people in this kind of a facility. And how difficult it might be for firefighters to make these rescues of these people when they're still probably dealing with an active fire situation.
BROOKS: Well, what they'll do, Tony, is they'll try to get the rooms around -- where the fire originated, whether it was storage closet, whether it was a patient's room, they'll try to get -- perform rescues right within that particular area. And then they'll try to evacuate the people from the -- looks like they have a number of wings set up here, Tony. Looks like the bulk of the smoke we see is coming right from the center part. So they will try to perform rescues there while they are trying to put the fire out. And then, again, while they get the fire out, they think they may have it knocked down. And then as I said before, you will check for extension. And it looks like the fire has gotten up into the roof area.
HARRIS: It does. Yes, it does.
BROOKS: So I don't know the exact construction of this, because that's one of the other things the fire departments look at. While they're constructing these facilities, (INAUDIBLE) looking at how the building is constructed and what it's made of. So when they do -- you know, hopefully never have to. But when they do arrive at a fire or they have a fire at a facility they will know what kind of building construction you're dealing with, how the rooms are laid out, all these kind of things. It's all part of their preplanning, but probably -- I would most likely say probably had probably have some kind of fire in a void space or some kind of hidden fire that they're trying to get to right now.
KEILAR: And, Mike, just want to update our viewers on what's going on. This is a fire at an assisted-living home in West Bloomfield, Michigan, about 15, 20 miles outside of Detroit, and we just got word from local media there, that their actually are active flames that are visible there from the ground.
Now we have not seen them in our pictures here. Perhaps as we get a wider shot we may see those flames. But definitely, Mike -- and I know you're seeing these pictures -- there seems to be more smoke as well.
BROOKS: It does. And that's what -- again, it's very difficult sometimes. Just yesterday here in Atlanta, I was at a fire scene at an apartment. They thought they had the fire knocked down. At an older apartment. And then it blossomed, got into the walls and up through the roof. And -- but they were able to get to it with some (INAUDIBLE) of ventilation practices and an additional hose line. But that's what it look like we're dealing with here. It's almost right in the center. We see up there. You see more smoke coming out. It is sometimes very difficult to -- as the fire chases along void spaces, Tony, it's sometimes difficult to do that. You try to get ahead of the fire by using the hooks. You see firefighters a lot of the times with hooks, and they use these hooks to pull the ceiling down, to try to get a hose line in there to get to -- to try to head the fire off before it gets any further.
KEILAR: Might they be holding off on some of the hoses while they deal with these evacuations? I mean, if they've gotten people off of the first and second levels and they've got a select few available in this that's being threatened, quite obviously they don't want the water to encumber them. Is that possible, that they're holding off on that, Mike?
BROOKS: Well, I doubt it. What they're trying -- what the other thing you do is to you try to vent the fire. And it's a fine line while you're performing your suppression. You also try to vent the fire using fans. But, again, it depends on how many rescues have you going on in that area, how the fans are being deployed and what kind of ventilation, because sometime the ventilation, of not performed properly, cam actually enhance the fire. So you don't want to vent some areas some too soon.
HARRIS: Mike, as we've have been watching this for, what, 15 minutes now, Brianna?
KEILAR: Sure, 15.
HARRIS: Are you more or less concerned about the picture that you are seeing now? Because I've got to tell you, I'm more concerned about what I'm seeing here. We have at least 100 units, 100 independent living units for seniors in this entire structure. And as Brianna made note of perfectly this is a really big complex here. But as I watch these pictures, I'm becoming a little more concerned about what's going on here and I don't -- I have no clue as to how many people would be on that third floor, to what extent the second floor might be involved. Are you becoming more concerned about what you are seeing.
BROOKS: Well, Tony, what I see now I is -- you see the smoke. But I also see -- right in front there. You see a lot of firefighters right on side a of the building. They're on the A side, the front of the building there, like a staging area. If there was -- in my opinion, from what I'm seeing here, again, just Monday morning quarterbacking from my experience of what I know, you -- if there was any more -- if there was any more rescues to be performed, and again, we can only see this one side of the building there, I think you would see many of these firefighters being deployed, performing rescues, and you would see them pulling ground ladders off the other ladder truck that we saw on the other side of the building.
HARRIS: Thank you for that. Mike, stand by, if you would, please. KEILAR: Yes, we're actually going to check in right now with the assistant fire chief of West Bloomfield Fire Department. His name is Ray Riggs. Tony Harris and Brianna Keilar here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Sir, can you hear us? Ray, can you hear us.
HARRIS: Did we lose him.
KEILAR: All right, we are trying to get Ray Riggs, the assistant fire chief for West Bloomfield Fire Department, the fire department, obviously, that is fight this fire here at this assisted-living facility in West Bloomfield, Michigan.
Let's see if we can get Mr. Riggs on the phone with us.
Ray Riggs, can you hear us?
ASST. RAY RIGGS, WEST BLOOMFIELD, MICH. FIRE DEPT.: Hello.
KEILAR: Hi there. Tony Harris and Brianna Keilar with you in the CNN NEWSROOM. Just tell us what's going on here. Tell us the latest.
RIGGS: Well, we have a large senior citizen housing residential area that had some fire in the construction spaces up in the attic and in some of the walls. And we're trying to contain that. We have evacuated the building and performed several ladder rescues off the balconies. And have gotten all the people out of the building at this point, and now we're -- well, we've been in fire-attack mode the whole time. When you have a building this size the best way to rescue people is to put the fire out.
KEILAR: Now, OK, so you said, there are no more people in the building. So the building is completely evacuated at this point, all patients accounted for?
RIGGS: The building is completely evacuated at this point. And the home administrators are going through their residents list to make sure everyone is accounted for.
KEILAR: OK, and so just describe to us how firefighters with West Bloomfield Fire are fighting this fire. They are going at this from the inside obviously.
RIGGS: Yes, they are still doing an aggressive interior attack, tearing down walls and ceilings to get to the scene of the fire to extinguish it.
KEILAR: And so at this point, though, you said all people -- they're trying to figure out if all people are accounted for. There isn't a final head count at this point?
RIGGS: Right. We have done the rescues and we have sent firefighters into every room to make sure that there are no residents left in the rooms, and the administration at the nursing home office is now doing a head count to totally confirm that. KEILAR: We're hearing no serious injuries. Is that what you have?
RIGGS: No serious injuries at this point. We have had several patients begin to complain of chest pain, which with, you know, senior citizens going through a traumatic event like this, certainly could precipitate a cardiac event. And we don't know if any of those are serious at this time. We have some of the resources of some private EMS to handle that while we're involved in the firefight. Typically we perform the EMS function, but at this point we're not able to do that. So they're being handled by another entity, so I can't comment on the severity of anybody's condition at this point.
KEILAR: OK, so you said this fire appears to have begun in the construction spaces in the attic, and it spread to the walls, is that right?
RIGGS: Yes. What I mean by construction spaces is areas that are hidden by walls, or floors or ceilings. We believe it started in a heating unit.
KEILAR: OK, so a heating unit being an electrical fire, is that the assumption?
RIGGS: I don't know at this point.
KEILAR: OK, we're are going to go ahead and recap here for our viewers what's going on. We want to thank Assistant Fire Chief Ray Riggs with West Bloomfield Fire for giving us the very latest on this.
But you are watching some pictures that just came in to the CNN newsroom a short time ago. Firefighters in West Bloomfield, Michigan rescuing a patient, an elderly patient from an assisted living home in West Bloomfield, Michigan. We understand that all people, to the knowledge of the fire department, have been evacuated from the building. Some people complaining of chest pains. But the reports that we're getting is that there are no serious injuries.
We're going to continue to be follow this story, this fire, at this assisted-living facility in west Bloomfield, Michigan. We'll bring you any updates as they come in.
HARRIS: And as you were recapping that story, Brianna, another significant development to report to you. Breaking news in the CNN NEWSROOM, just before noon Eastern. And our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve has this for us now. A senior U.S. counterterrorism official tells our Jeanne Meserve that Abu al-Masri, the al Qaeda chief responsible for attacks on U.S. forces in Afghanistan is dead.
And Jeanne Meserve on the line for us. Jeanne, what can you tell us?
VOICE OF JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you that the official who informed us of this says that al- Masri died of natural causes, possibly hepatitis. This was not the result of any sort of military action.
As you mentioned, he was a top al Qaeda leader believed to have very close ties to bin Laden and also his number two, Zawahiri. He was considered an external operations planner, one of the key people in that area. He has been tied by U.S. officials to two major terrorist attacks in the past. The first was the 2005 London subway bombing. You'll remember that ...
HARRIS: Yes.
MESERVE: ...which did considerable damage. Al-Masri was said to have recruited, trained and detected -- and directed the bombers in that case. He also has been associated with that second plot to put liquid explosives onboard transatlantic flights bound for the U.S. and Canada in the summer of 2006. That, of course, resulted in the ban that we all live with on having more than three ounces of liquid ...
HARRIS: That's right.
MESERVE: ...on any aircraft you fly on.
But once again, an external operations planner. He had been a long-time fighter in Afghanistan, a paramilitary commander there. He fled when the U.S. began operations there. A long time associate of al Qaeda and bin Laden. And he -- we are told today by U.S. official, he is dead.
HARRIS: And the breaking news just into CNN from our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve. We will continue to follow developments on this story throughout the day for you right here in the NEWSROOM.
KEILAR: But first, we want to get you right back to West Bloomfield, Michigan, Tony. We have been following this story for a little while now. This is a fire at an assisted living facility. And this is -- just to give you a sense of where West Bloomfield, Michigan is. It's about 15, 20 miles outside of Detroit. This is a suburb of Detroit. And this is just a huge assisted living facility.
HARRIS: It really is, yes.
KEILAR: It's very large. And what we just heard from the fire department there is that all people have been taken out of the buildings. But we saw some really dramatic rescues earlier, Tony.
HARRIS: Now, you spoke with Ray Riggs (ph), the assistant fire chief for West Bloomfield township. He -- I guess I heard him describing this as a fire that may have originated in a construction space. Did he explain that?
KEILAR: Yes, he -- by construction space, what he meant was it was kind of a -- I guess an empty space as I understood it.
HARRIS: OK, all right.
KEILAR: And they actually think it may have come from a heating unit. But this would be a space that you couldn't see. There are walls in the way. There's a ceiling in the way.
So, and actually, we're going to turn right back to Mike Brooks ...
HARRIS: Great.
KEILAR: ...our expert on fire situations like this.
HARRIS: Hey Mike, and I'm just curious. It was described by the assistant fire chief Ray Riggs as a construction space a fire there.
BROOKS: Right.
HARRIS: Did you hear anything in that conversation with Brianna that helped you understand what happened here?
BROOKS: Well, it sounds like, Tony, what we were talking before we talked to ...
HARRIS: I think you're right, yes.
BROOKS: ...Chief Riggs, you know. It was right where we were -- we were kind of right on target with what we were ...
HARRIS: Right.
BROOKS: ...talking about before about the causes. It was -- if they're looking at right now a heating unit, that would be considered electrical or it could be something from the -- maybe it overheated, that kind of thing.
HARRIS: Yes.
BROOKS: Caused the initial fire. And what he's talking about the construction space is -- when he said that, I kind of perked my ears up a little bit because I was saying, OK, sometimes when you're working, doing construction, but what he meant is in the void spaces.
HARRIS: Yes.
BROOKS: In the void space you can't see and that's what we were talking about trying to use the hooks, trying to get to the fire. Defeated (ph) that fire. And that's what they're doing now. They're opening up walls, they're opening up ceilings inside. And again, very smoky conditions, most likely inside there where they are dealing with, Tony.
HARRIS: And now, we got firefighters on the roof, Mike.
BROOKS: Yes, what you may do is -- we talked about a ventilation ...
HARRIS: Yes.
BROOKS: ...and since it's up in that ceiling, you can -- you got to be careful. Where it reaches that (ph) firefighter right to the left there where you see the smoke just a little spots on the -- on the roof there. That roof can get very, very -- what we call kind of spongy because it's being impinged by the fire.
So, what they're going to try to do is maybe cut a lateral ventilation hole in that area there to try to cut it off and maybe -- and to let the fire vent and as it does vent, they can probably get to it a little easier underneath, release some of the super-heated gases, and that heavy smoke. Get that out, so they can get in there and get to that fire.
HARRIS: And Mike, as we sort of wrap all of this up, all of the reporting so far this morning on this fire, for the folks who are just joining us, you have to talk for a moment, please, about the extraordinary effort of the firefighters here, true heroes again. Getting all of these folks evacuated from that third floor and throughout the buildings here. As you can see, this is a huge complex with at least at this point no serious injuries to report.
BROOKS: No, it's just extraordinary, Tony, especially -- in a facility, assisted living facility for the elderly like this, that Chief Riggs was talking about because had you two things going on in the initial stages of this fire. And as he said, they have been what they call the fire attack mode the whole time, you know, which is the initial -- offensive in rescue phase.
And you had the firefighters with the lines trying to suppress the fire where he had the other firefighters using ground ladders and very, very dangerous, trying to bring these disabled and elderly patients out of this building.
And again, I say the one saving grace and of this facility is only three stories high. So, that enabled the firefighters with the ground ladders to make a lot of heroic rescues here. Because if you keep in mind, Tony, West Bloomfield, it's basically a fire department that has about 63 ...
HARRIS: Yes.
BROOKS: ...firefighters and you know, a command staff. And it's, you know, it's small -- it's about a 36-square mile with six fire stations.
HARRIS: Well ...
BROOKS: ...and -- but they're all full-time firefighters.
HARRIS: What an amazing story here, what work by these firefighters. This is -- again, West Bloomfield township in Michigan, not far from Detroit. And amazing work here at the Lillian and Samuel Hechtman Jewish Apartments Complex there in West Bloomfield. No serious injuries, no injuries of any consequence to report.
Mike Brooks, you've been amazing for us this morning, helping to tell this story. Amazing rescues and what about the work of the firefighters and the job they are doing, continue to do and have done in evacuating this building -- tremendous. If you want to continue to watch this live pictures streaming for you right now at CNN.com.
KEILAR: And we are clearing out for "ISSUE #1," it is next. But first, we want to tell you that while we heard from the Clinton campaign in our 10:00 a.m. Eastern hour, we are trying to differentiate where the candidates stand on the Iraq War.
HARRIS: That's right.
KEILAR: Breaking news did prevent us from speaking with the Obama and McCain supporters as we had originally planned. We're going to make every effort to bring that in to that conversation tomorrow.
HARRIS: OK, in the meantime, CNN NEWSROOM continues one hour from now. In the meantime, "ISSUE #1" is next with news about the economy and the increasing price of gas.
I'm Tony Harris.
KEILAR: And I'm Brianna Keilar. See you tomorrow.
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