Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Elementary School Principal Busted in Motel With Teenage Girls

Aired April 09, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: He hopped from school to school as a teacher, then assistant principal, and finally principal of a large, well- respected suburban elementary school. Anybody ever stop and ask why he kept transferring, falling up the ladder? Well, tonight, we have a clue, the teacher/principal to thousands of children busted in a local motel room with a 15 and 16-year-old girl, unclothed, smoking pot and watching porn. When police knock at the door, he answers in boxers. Well, it looks like this principal needs a private tutor -- on how to survive behind bars!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one`s about as sick as it gets. A 47-year- old man is caught in his boxer shorts in a Super 8 motel with two girls, their ages, 15 and 16. Now, this creep was giving them wine coolers, cognac, pot. And when he asked them, Hey, what movie do you want to watch in the room, they picked "Alvin and the Chipmunks." What did he order? Porn. And here`s the kicker of all kickers. The guy`s an elementary school principal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, stunning details emerge, all stemming from a single secret call from a teenage girl whispering into a borrowed cell phone. That one call brings down the single biggest child protection bust in U.S. history, a 1,700-acre Texas compound where girls as young as 13 forced into spiritual marriages, forced to give birth, 416 children, 130 women literally hauled off by the busload, stories mounting of physical abuse, child molestation, threats and brainwashing about the so-called outside world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the rest of the world, they might look like children, but to the polygamists at this west Texas compound, they are allegedly something else, wives and mothers, some as young as 13 or 14. The story of one still missing girl spells out the painful details in black and white. In a call to a family violence center that led authorities to raid the compound, she claimed she was wife number seven, married at 15 to a 49-year-old man. She was a mother at 16, with another already on the way. In a state affidavit, she claims that her husband beat and hurt her and forced himself on her sexually. She said he punched her in the chest, choked her, while another woman in the house watched and held her baby. Once the beating was so bad, she said she went to the hospital. The last beating was Easter Sunday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight: A well-respected suburban elementary school principal busted in a local motel with teenage girls, unclothed, porn and pot. Why did the public school system let this guy fall up the ladder to land in the principal`s office?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What started as a routine security check of the Super 8 motel ended with this Illinois principal in jail. Police say they caught Daniel Markofski with two Milwaukee teens after smelling marijuana coming from his room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They saw, you know, two younger girls in the room, and then a pornographic movie on the television. And then that`s where it spiraled into much more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Markofski admitted he give the 15 and 16-year-old cousins alcohol and marijuana. He`s also accused of having sex with one of them. According to the criminal complaint, one teen asked to rent "Alvin and the Chipmunks," but Markofski ordered a pornographic movie instead. And that`s not it. When investigators searched Markofski`s cell phone, they found naked photos of one of the girls taken on the lakefront.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: How did this guy get transferred from one school to the next, to the next, to the next, a school teacher, then an assistant principal, finally a principal? Didn`t anybody ever wonder? Are we to the point we are afraid to give a bad review of someone, afraid we`re going to get sued? So he goes from one school to the next, to the next. Look at this guy! And just get this mental picture, him in a motel room, a 15-year-old girl, a 16-year-old girl, unclothed with pot and porn.

OK. To Dan O`Donnell, reporter with Newsradio 620 WTMJ. Dan, what happened?

DAN O`DONNELL, NEWSRADIO 620 WTMJ: Well, basically, one of the Glendale police officers was on foot patrol in this Super 8 motel, and he smelled the smell of marijuana burning. When he went to investigate, he found the defendant, Daniel Markofski, in a room with two underage girls later determined to be age 16 and 15.

It was then determined in an interview with Markofski that he met the 16-year-old via a dating service -- via a chat room, a chat service, called the Quest (ph) chat line. She introduced him to her 15-year-old cousin. They both went with him to this motel. They smoked marijuana. They went out for cognac and wine coolers. They took a shot of Hennessey. And then he asked the girls what they wanted to watch. They said "Alvin and the Chipmunks." He instead put on pornography, and then he began performing a sex act on one of the girls.

GRACE: To a special guest joining us tonight, Officer Joel Dhein, the PIO of the Glendale Police Department. Officer, to me that is especially poignant that one of the girls actually wanted to watch "Alvin and the Chipmunks." It had just come out, remember, on the big screen. They are so much children, they wanted to rent "Alvin and the Chipmunks," Officer.

JOEL DHEIN, GLENDALE POLICE DEPT.: Yes. I know. It`s a very disturbing case, obviously. And thank goodness for some good police work. We were able to get this guy off the street.

GRACE: Well, it`s pretty amazing. You know, I haven`t been to too many hotels, Officer Dhein, where there`s a routine beat officer patrolling the halls of the motel. But I`ve got to say I`m glad this one was there. What was the officer doing there?

DHEIN: Yes, that`s a good question. You know, we`re really a community-based police force here, and our overnight officers, between calls -- we only have a handful of businesses that are open 24 hours. And what they do periodically is they go into the businesses and check on the employees, make sure everything`s OK. It`s kind of like walking a beat. And this particular officer was in the hotel, you know, checked with the clerk, made sure everything was OK, and at the same time, just did a quick walkthrough in the hotel. And that`s when he discovered the smell of marijuana and was able to pinpoint it to that room.

GRACE: And you know, this guy was no amateur, Officer Dhein, because he knew to dampen a towel, roll it up and put it at the foot of the door so the smell of pot wouldn`t go out into the hall.

DHEIN: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, a lot of people that, you know, do that, smoke marijuana or other illegal drugs like that, do that, so you know, it doesn`t come into the, you know, quote, unquote, "common areas." But it obviously didn`t work. And because of this diligent officer being able to figure out the room, he was able to this time call another officer in, and then what we do is called a "knock and talk," just to talk to, you know, the occupants of the room. And that`s kind of how this got started.

GRACE: I want to go out to Dan O`Donnell there at 620 WTMJ. Dan O`Donnell, please tell me this guy`s still behind bars tonight. Has he bonded out?

O`DONNELL: He is, as far as we know, still in the Milwaukee County Jail, being held on $5,000 bail.

GRACE: And Dan O`Donnell, what is his history? What other schools has he been at? And how did he go from school to school to school? I mean, surely, does anybody believe this is the first time he`s been with young girls?

O`DONNELL: Well, according to records kept by the state circuit court system that are on line, he does not have a criminal record. He was at North Lake elementary in Boulder Junction, Wisconsin, and then a teacher at Arborvitae (ph) Woodruff (ph) elementary school -- both of those are in the northern part of the state -- throughout the mid-`90s into 2005. And then he was the principal at both Blackhawk and Tower Rock elementary schools, which are in the Sauk (ph) Prarie (ph) school district, a little bit further south, until 2006, when he got this job in Illinois and then moved south. He was, by all accounts, a typical teacher, moving from school to school, looking for better jobs...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Dan, I would hardly refer to him as a typical teacher. Now, hold on a moment. He starts at North Lake, then goes to Woodruff, Blackhawk. When was he at North Lake?

O`DONNELL: He was at North Lake -- I believe this was his first year.

GRACE: Oh, and that would have been when?

O`DONNELL: Oh, North Lake elementary? I`m sorry. I misunderstood you. From 1994 to 1997. That was his first teaching job.

GRACE: OK, so he starts his first teaching job, Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop, former fed with the FBI -- he starts his first job in 1994. In 2008, he`s already been in one, two, three, four, five jobs that we know of.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I would like to see his performance record looks like.

GRACE: Ding, ding, ding! Red bell of alarm!

BROOKS: No kidding, you know? Screw up, move up. That`s what it sounds like. But you know, Nancy, I find it hard to believe that also that this principal perv, that this was the first time that he`d done this. He was on this Quest chat line, and I seriously doubt that it was the first time he had been on that chat line looking for some prey, also, because you can go in, you can look on the chat line, and it will tell you what city. You can punch in your area code and then the city, and it`ll give you the 1-800 or 888 number for that particular city. And then you can get your own mailbox. And so I` sure he was -- he was looking for prey for quite some time. But I wouldn`t be surprised if he has done this a number of times, Nancy.

GRACE: To Officer Joel Dhein, PIO of the Glendale Police department. Officer, has his home and work computer been seized?

DHEIN: You know, Nancy, with that -- you know, the other authorities, the other jurisdiction involved in this case has been notified by our detectives, and they`re looking at a lot of different options here, you know, to check him out further and...

GRACE: Well, I mean, if they say, Officer, that they met him on a chat line, or he says he met them on a chat line, well, what else has he been doing on the chat line?

DHEIN: Well, yes. Very good question. And during our investigation, you know, we were able to look at his cell phone, actually, during the investigation, you know, with his permission and with him, actually. And yes, he had -- he had -- we had to check, it was a lot of -- I give our detectives a lot of credit because there was a lot of footwork involved in this, checking to see if other people that he had spoke with, you know, were adults or not. So yes, you know, that`s something that investigators always look at.

GRACE: Well, I`m waiting, Mike Brooks, on a search warrant to go ahead and seize the home and the work computer because if this guy is addicted to those chat lines, you know he was doing it at work.

BROOKS: Absolutely. I`d be -- you know, most likely, he was doing it at work and at home, on his cell phone. And I`d also be serving a search warrant on the cell phone of the 16-year-old girl who he had had because, Nancy, when he was caught, that wasn`t the first time he had been to that hotel with that particular girl.

GRACE: Why do you say that, because of her statements and his statements?

BROOKS: Exactly. And I would take a look, you know, if the cell phone is in her name. Most likely, since she`s a juvenile, it`s in her parents` name. And they`ll have to go back and pull the records to see if there`s any history and how many times he called her, she called him, and maybe there might even be more times than the two that she mentioned. But that would be all part of the investigation, Nancy.

GRACE: We`re taking your calls live. This guy fell up the ladder for over 10 years as a teacher, an assistant principal, finally a principal, busted in a local motel with a 15 and 16-year-old girl, unclothed, with porn and pot going, after they had asked to watch "Alvin and the Chipmunks."

I want to go to the lawyers before we start the phone calls. Joining us tonight, Randi Karmel, Renee Rockwell, Alex Sanchez. Out to Randi Karmel. Are schools afraid to give a realistic, a truthful review of a teacher they got rid of, or is it like priests, they just go from one Catholic church to the next, to the next, to the next, molesting children, and nobody ever tells the next employer what`s going on?

RANDI KARMEL, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: I think most schools and most companies are scared of being sued, so they usually only give the dates of employment and no further information. One of the things that`s important is most applications only have, Have you ever been convicted of a crime, not, Have you been arrested, as well.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, sweetie. My question is, are they going to try to go back to these other schools and maybe notify the parents to interview their children to see if he has done this? Because I`m sure he has. He`s a pedophile.

GRACE: What about it, Officer Dhein? I mean, this may be a lot bigger than one 15-year-old and one 16-year-old.

DHEIN: Yes, and that`s one thing, you know, as investigators, you always look at. And actually doing interviews like this, Nancy, I mean, sometimes, you know, past history, you know, more victims come out, you know, when they hear about it.

GRACE: You know, a letter was sent to district residents April 8, 2008, telling everyone about the arrest of the Spring Grove elementary school principal, Mr. Daniel Markofski. And now, who did that go to, Officer Dhein, this letter I`ve got in my hand?

O`DONNELL: Well, I`m not familiar with that jurisdiction. He was actually -- when he committed this crime, he was up north in the Milwaukee area, so I`m not familiar -- we contacted their department and let them know about the situation, and then their school district handled the notification.

GRACE: Back out to the lines. Priscilla in California. Hi, Priscilla.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God bless you with your twins. They`re gorgeous.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very gorgeous. My question is, with the principal, where did he get -- where did the pot come at? Is he buying it, or is he having the girls purchase it?

GRACE: What about, Dan O`Donnell?

O`DONNELL: According to the criminal complaint, he had the pot and actually plied the girls with both marijuana and the cognac and wine coolers, so it seems as if he was buying all of this.

GRACE: And this is after taking them to an expensive restaurant, an expensive meal at McDonald`s?

O`DONNELL: Yes. This was after the gourmet cuisine.

GRACE: OK. I`m not going to comment on that. To Ida in Nevada. Hi, Ida.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy! Oh, what a pleasure to talk with you! And welcome back.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question. Why -- like this man is so guilty, is he -- he is on paid leave? Why do taxpayers...

GRACE: Oh, you are so right! Is he suspended, Officer Dhein, or is he suspended with pay?

DHEIN: I don`t know if he is. That`s what I heard, that he was, just from the press conference from the school district. And that`s what I heard. And I know that they had told the media that, you know, they were obviously waiting to get the facts, too, as they were notified. That`s all I`d heard from...

GRACE: It`s my understanding, Officer -- and to Ida in Nevada -- he has been suspended without pay. Of course, we the taxpayers are still paying for a cot and three tonight because he`s still behind bars. And if the police report is accurate, we`ll be paying for him for some time to come.

Let`s go back to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, Alex Sanchez. He is looking at a Wisconsin statute that says 16 and under. That is a statutory limit, sex intercourse with a child, excuse me, 16 or older. Now, what kind of time is he looking at, Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I would imagine -- first of all, this is a felony, and in a situation like this, where it`s a sexual offense, I don`t see this guy doing anything but trying to get the best deal possible, Nancy. But I do see penitentiary time in this one, especially because so much attention has been drawn to this and especially because of the fact that he is in the schools and the educational system.

GRACE: You know, to you, Alex Sanchez, I think at this juncture, at this point in time with our legal system, schools, churches, a lot of institutions are afraid to say, Look, we got rid of this guy because we think he`s been hitting on the students, because they can then be sued, get their pants sued off.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, absolutely. And if there`s never been any type of a hearing in the past or any substantiated allegation, for those allegations to end up in some type of a document, without any final determination that this had actually occurred, can render the school departments liable from a civil point of view.

GRACE: Which ends up -- which ends up in more and more children getting molested.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the marijuana, and then it went to the pornography. And the interviews obviously revealed a lot more. Criminals come in all shapes and sizes, and this is -- you know, this is no exception. And very good police work here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Well, here it is, the video of "Alvin and the Chipmunks" from 20th Century Fox. That`s what these two teen girls actually asked to watch. Instead, a local principal showed them porn, gave them a little blunt (ph), which is a giant doobie in a cigar wrapper, and started to party hearty in his boxer shorts, until the cops knocked at the door. How did this guy go from a teacher to assistant principal all the way to principal? And is this system in place all across the country?

Out to the lines. Denise in Pennsylvania. Hi, Denise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I love your show. You can be my lawyer any time.

GRACE: Thank you!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to know, other than criminal charges, can the families put a civil suit on him and take everything he has?

GRACE: What about it, Alex Sanchez?

SANCHEZ: Absolutely. If the family has determined, or if it is determined that a crime has been committed against the young girls, such as rape, that`s something that you could bring a lawsuit against this fellow, and he could be sued.

GRACE: Renee?

ROCKWELL: Absolutely. I agree. And don`t forget, besides anything that he may have, he may also have a pension, Nancy.

GRACE: He may also have a pension to go after?

ROCKWELL: A pension, that`s right.

GRACE: That`s a really good point. Randi Karmel, under the law in that jurisdiction, 16 or older -- 16 or older -- will the age of one of the girls stop charges regarding to her?

KARMEL: Well, it depends. I mean, certain statutory rape laws, there is the age that is the most important, but there`s other assault charges, as well as the porn and the pot and everything else that can be brought.

GRACE: To psychologist Caryn Stark. Do you see a mental defect defense coming up, I mean, if this has gone on over and over and over in various schools?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Not at all. I mean, he`s a classic pedophile. There`s nothing wrong with him mentally. He knew just what he was doing, and he did a good job trapping these girls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Markofski is accused of taking two Milwaukee-area girls to a Glendale motel, giving them alcohol and marijuana, showing them pornography, and then having sexual relations with one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An elementary school principal is suspended with pay after being charged with having sex with a minor. Wisconsin authorities say they found Daniel Markofski in a motel with two girls, 15 and 16. He admitted giving them alcohol and marijuana. Markofski supposedly met the 16-year-old on a phone chat line. Principal Markofski has a hearing next Friday. He faces eight years in prison, if convicted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the marijuana, and then it went to the pornography. And the interviews obviously revealed a lot more. Criminals come in all shapes and sizes, and this is -- you know, this is no exception. And very good police work here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: He has been in the public school systems now nearly 15 years, going from school to school to school. How many children has he come in contact with?

Out to the lines. Michelle in Illinois. Hi, Michelle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How`re you doing? I love your show, Nancy.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know if he was married or if he had any kids.

GRACE: Good question. What about it, Officer Dhein?

DHEIN: Nancy, I`m not sure of his background. I don`t have that information in front of me, so I can`t answer that. I`m sorry.

GRACE: It`s my understanding, Dan O`Donnell with WTMJ, that he is divorced with three children?

O`DONNELL: Yes. In fact, he actually has grandchildren, or at least one grandchild. And in fact, in 2005, when he was the principal of Blackhawk and Tower Rock elementary schools in northern Wisconsin, he served for only about three months, and then one day just did not come to work. And in fact, the superintendent called around, and finally, one of his family members said, Look, he`s very upset about the divorce, he can`t handle going to work. And then a few days later, Markofski resigned.

GRACE: In a position of trust as a principal at an elementary school behind bars tonight.

When we come back, stunning details from a desperate secret call from a teenage girl ends in the biggest bust in U.S. history.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Court documents described how investigators found several teenage mothers and pregnant teenage girls. They described a wide-spread pattern and practice of young girls conditioned to marry and accept sexual activity with adult men. Young boys were expected to marry when they became adults, sometimes to underage girls. The state decided this places all of the children at the compound, both male and female, to risk of emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not about numbers. This is about children who are at imminent risk of harm. Children that we believe have been abused or neglected. And we are doing everything that we possibly can to be as sensitive to this situation as possible. We are trying to get the information as best we can. It is a very difficult process.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 416 children, ages 17 and under, have been removed from the ranch. But so far the state has only been able to name 38 mothers or fathers. Many children are described as unwilling or unable to name their biological parents.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: The story gets worse and worse out of Texas. Hundreds of children, about 130 women, literally hauled off by the bus load from a 1700 acre compound. Apparently child molestation rampant.

Out to Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio 1200 AM. Michael, thank you for being with us.

Michael, do we know the identity -- have they identified the girl that made that desperate phone call, whispering in to a borrowed cell phone?

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO 12 AM: No, they still have not found her. And it`s because of what you were talking about just now. A lot of these women are not willing to tell who they are, not willing to tell who their parents are. You have to understand what goes on at this ranch. These girls from birth are told that if they go against their parents, they are not going to heaven. They are going to hell. They will be ostracized from this group, if they do anything against their parents.

So they`re scared out of their minds. These are war victims out there. They are literally at war with the outside world. That`s why they are not willing to talk with outsiders.

GRACE: Michael, I understand authorities can`t make identifications because a lot of these children and women, grown women, don`t even know dates of birth. They think that the various women in a plural marriage are their mothers. They`re not sure which one is their actual birth mother. So it is very hard to identify all -- who these people are.

BOARD: Well, let`s get something straight here, Nancy. This is not religion, they are not married. This is a group of pedophiles who like to have sex with as many teenage girls as possible. It is absolutely sick and twisted what happens to these little girls.

From birth, they`re told, the minute you hit puberty, you`ll be conditioned to have sex with your father or husband. It`s just absolutely disgusting.

GRACE: I want to go out to a special guest, joining us, in addition to Michael Board with 1200 AM, Floral Jessop is with us. I don`t know if you`ve ever met Flora across the airwaves. She is a former polygamist child bride and she is executive director of the Child Protection Project.

Flora, it`s a real pleasure to have you on. Thank you for being with us. If you can describe for our viewers what that life is like.

FLORA JESSOP, FORMER FLDS CHILD BRIDE, EXEC. DIR. OF CHILD PROTECTION PROJECT: It`s -- they control these children through fear. If you can imagine being born into a sect that -- where you have, beginning at birth. They basically waterboard their children to teach the babies not to cry, because they believe that God finds crying children offensive. They take the voice of that child away. They own that child because they can insure that child will stay silent.

Not only that, but these children that are in custody now still have family members that are on the inside of this group. They are being -- the family member that as are still on the inside are being threatened with death and harm and beatings and rapings, if they talk. I have a missing persons out on mother that I`ve had out for four years. I am told constantly that she is punished every day for what I do -- in helping the women and children escape this. It is the most brutal, belittling, white slavery that you can imagine being in.

GRACE: Why is it that the women, not only accept it for their own lives, but allow their children to get to carry on the victimization?

JESSOP: They have no choice. You have to realize, these women were born into this, too, and at one point, were victims. I have a hard time accepting that they are continuing to be victims, when they start allowing the perpetration on to their children, however. It`s kind of a difficult situation because I understand both sides of it. But when you have a mother that is -- her children are taken away from her when they`re born, and given to other mothers to raise, because in order to control the women, if you spread her children out in this community, she can`t get all of her children to leave. And what mother is going to try to leave without all of her children?

And we`ve had no -- well, we`ve had little success in the states of Utah and Arizona in successfully getting a mother and her children out.

GRACE: With us tonight, also, is John Llewellyn, a former polygamist and now author.

Mr. Llewellyn, why were you a polygamist?

JOHN LLEWELLYN, FORMER POLYGAMIST, AUTHOR OF "POLYGAMY`S RAPE OF RACHAEL STRONG": Well, a young mother with three beautiful little girls came to my wife and asked if she could be part of the family. She had been studying Mormon fundamentalism, so was I. And it surprised me that my wife accepted. And as I have said before, the Y chromosome plays a large part in all of this, and in reflecting back, I think that`s what encouraged me to go into this.

GRACE: Sir, you`re blaming your chromosome?

LLEWELLYN: Pardon?

GRACE: You`re blaming a chromosome?

LLEWELLYN: Well, you know, the Y chromosome is where the sex urge is in the man. And this is all about sex.

GRACE: Yes, sir, I`m familiar with the Y chromosome. It`s not actually, in my mind, about sex, it is about statutory rape of children because these young girls are still, in the eyes of the law, children. They are 14 and 15 years old.

LLEWELLYN: Well, you are absolutely correct. I agree with you. What we see here is organized exploitation of children. And I`m glad that the Texas authorities are doing what they are.

GRACE: Sir, did you -- when you were still practicing polygamy, did you ever discuss it with the other males in that society?

LLEWELLYN: There`s always discussions, and that`s one reason that I left it, is because of the crime, the corruption, and the abuse of women that go on, which is endemic to every single one of these polygamist groups. And I heard the remarks that other men would say about these young girls or look at another man`s wife and say, she ought to be in my family, and, you know, they have -- they only recognize a marriage that is performed by their priesthood. That means that all other women are fair game.

And so they have no compunctions, a lot of them, in going to another man`s wife and trying to seduce her to come to his family.

GRACE: Mr. Llewellyn, how many wives did you have?

LLEWELLYN: I had three at one time.

GRACE: And what were their ages at the time you married them?

LLEWELLYN: Oh, they were all adults. They were within 10 years of my age.

GRACE: And what age was that exactly?

LLEWELLYN: Well, I was in my 40s at the time so they would be between 30 and 40.

GRACE: Did you ever feel a need to speak out against what you observed?

LLEWELLYN: That`s what I`m doing now. That`s what all my writings are about, speaking out against it. What I did was not right. I admit that. But I have been a consultant to various law enforcement agencies, including the federal agencies.

GRACE: Yes, you certainly have. You certainly have.

I want to go to Steve Hassan, mind control expert. He has counseled FLDS members.

Steve, what do you make of the most recent bust? Did anyone ever imagine there were this many women and children being victimized on this compound?

STEVE HASSAN, MIND CONTROL EXPERT, COUNSELED FLDS MEMBERS, POLYGAMISTS: Oh, absolutely. We`ve known about it for a long time. Flora Jessop has talked about it, and other defectors, and it`s wonderful that the Texas authorities are finally doing their job, and I`m hoping that it`s going to bring more light to the problem of mind control authoritarian groups.

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, physician, a professor of public health at Johns Hopkins, when you have girls as young as 12 and 13 forced to marry and have children, what physical risks do they face?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIV.: Well, certainly, malnutrition, fractures, bruises, these are all things that are coming out. One kid even described being choked and hit in the chest.

But Nancy, we`re going to see a degree and magnitude of emotional detachment and psychiatric trauma that we don`t even know what to do with. This will write new chapters in the books of psychiatry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Child abuse investigators allege in newly released court documents that every child inside the YFC compound was at risk of physical and sexual abuse. The investigators say a culture of adult men marrying teenage girls once they reached childbearing age is rampant.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators will detail the plight of an unknown 16-year-old girl. The court record say the teenager called a family violence shelter saying she was being held against her will and wanted to escape. She reported, the court record say, that the adult man she married a year ago would beat and hurt her whenever he got angry, and that if she tried to leave, she would be bound and locked up. But at the end of the phone calls, investigators say the girl began crying and she said, everything she said should be forgotten.

Despite removing 416 children from the ranch, child abuse investigators still haven`t identified that teenage caller.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: No one had any idea of the magnitude the child molestation going on a 1700-acre ranch.

Back out to Flora Jessop, former polygamist and child bride. She is the director of the Child Protection Project.

Flora, again, thank you for being with us.

JESSOP: Thank you.

GRACE: What was your life like when you were part of that world?

JESSOP: Well, for me, sexual abuse started when I was about 8 years old. I tried to get help for that abuse through the child protection system in Utah, and was sent back into the community, which is a routine practice of the child protection services in both Utah and Arizona. I spent the next three years in my uncle`s home, locked up in solitary confinement with them trying to beat Satan out of me for standing up against God`s commandments.

So I know very well what this little girl is afraid of. I know that she speaks the absolute truth. I know probably better than anybody the fact that what they do to these children is so horrific that most of them are destroyed by it, are never - they are never able to overcome what is done to them.

GRACE: Caryn Stark, psychologist, what I don`t understand is how so many people living on the compound can be part of this conspiracy and how we know this is going on. The government knows. We know that it is happening. And yet no one is doing anything about it. It seems like we`re all part of a conspiracy for the molestation of these children.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s an outrage, Nancy, it really is. I mean, the people in the compound, the women, and the children, it`s really hard to say anything about them, because they really have been brainwashed. But the government, nobody can understand why the government wasn`t in the on this and didn`t do something about this sooner.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Jennifer in Kentucky. Hi, Jennifer.

JENNIFER, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s the question?

JENNIFER: OK, well, first off, I have to say I commend you on your show, it`s awesome. You bring the bad people right to the front of the camera, and I love you for that.

GRACE: Thank you.

JENNIFER: My question is why is it that a compound of this size was not noticed or raided upon up until now? Why were there so many children and so many women abused before we got to them?

GRACE: To you, Mike Brooks. What took so long?

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. D.C. POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Great question, Nancy. And hopefully this can take this whole sect down because part of the search warrant, apparently, they`re looking for documents, dealing with marriages among sect members. So, hopefully there`s a documentation that they were able to go through. It`s going to take a lot of time. You know, you`ve got a lot of people in this compound, Nancy.

But that`s a great question. You know, were they paying taxes? Were they -- were there any licenses? You know, electric bills. I mean they had to know what was going on here. You know why did it take this long? Maybe because they`re so insular, and that woman, she called twice to Child Protective Services but -- you know, with a barred cell phone because they cannot go outside the walls of the sect. Only the men are allowed to go outside.

GRACE: I think part of it, too, Randi, Renee and Alex, very quickly, is they had to have probable cause to enter the premises, Renee, and they got it with that phone call.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, and I agree with that, Nancy. This is much like a phone call with a rescue operation, and I don`t see this being thrown out on any kind of motion to suppress.

GRACE: Alex, agree?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there`s a question whether or not that call did justify probable cause because it`s an anonymous call, number one. The caller has never been identified and there may be a serious question whether or not they can be sustained.

GRACE: What about it, Randi? Is Alex Sanchez right? If we don`t find the 16-year-old girl, do we lose the case?

RANDI KARMEL, CHILD ADVOCATE FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: I don`t think so. I think she provided some pretty credible evidence and it led them inside and they -- the Child Protective people saw exactly what she was talking about.

GRACE: To China in California. Hi, China. China, are you with me?

Let`s go to Jeff in New Jersey. Hi, Jeff.

JEFF, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi, how you doing, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear.

JEFF: All right. I had a question about what kind of brainwashing techniques that keeps these women so enclosed for so many months, so many years.

GRACE: Excellent question, Jeff in New Jersey.

What about it, Steve Hassan? You`ve actually counseled FLDS members.

HASSAN: Yes, absolutely. Basically, they employ control of behavior, control of information, control of thoughts, control of emotions. And they create a complete cloned identity in the image of the cult leader. So that reality testing is not possible.

GRACE: And they have actually brainwashed the women and children to think outsiders are the devil.

HASSAN: Right. And I have a whole chapter in my second book about phobias, which is irrational fears which are drilled into these members` minds and members of any mind control authoritarian group. So that it`s impossible for people to think that they could leave and be happy and fulfilled. They can only generate terrible negative scenarios.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Bill in Florida. Hi, Bill.

BILL, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi. I just want to know, Nancy, can`t they do DNA testing on the people to see who belongs to who?

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, they can. It`s going to be very evolved but they can, correct?

MAKARY: Well, they have nothing to really compare it to. These kids have had no medical documentation since birth and they`ve been struggling with their own internal identity crisis, let alone any sort of medical records. But it`s going to be one big hodgepodge.

GRACE: To John Llewellyn, former polygamist and author, when you hear about this stunning number of women and children who have been victimized on this compound right here in our country, what do you think?

LLEWELLYN: Well, I think it`s terrible. We spend all this money about people who are being suppressed and their civil rights violated in foreign countries, and here it is going right here. Here is a good example of organized child exploitation on a huge scale.

But this one gentleman was right. The only way law enforcement can go in there is if they have probable cause. And think of it this way. What if they had received those two phone calls and didn`t act on them?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A Texas judge will hear arguments from a polygamist sect seeking to end the search of their compound. The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints argues state authorities don`t have enough evidence to justify search and that their warrants are too broad. The state is looking into allegations of sexual abuse at the compound.

A former church member says women are scared to leave.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: And now, we are getting wires and research that supports what`s in the affidavit that secret phone call from a 16-year-old girl whispered into a borrow cell phone.

To you, Mike Brooks, we are now learning that a Texas ranger says that they have verified what the girl said, that inside the temple, inside the temple, there was found what is called a sex bed, where these old men would immediately have sex with the underage bride, right there in the temple, immediately after the ceremony.

BROOKS: You know, Nancy, it just makes you sick. It`s -- after the leader there determines that, OK, you can have sex with her, it`s usually around age 13. It`s just unbelievable to me. But I hope, I hope, Nancy, that during this search, that they were able to find a cell phone and triangulate that back to where the call originated in that compound.

GRACE: And very quickly, Mike Brooks, this Dale Evans Barlow, aged 50, was actually arrested in Arizona, 2005, conspiracy to have sex with a minor. He got straight probation. And that`s who the girl is claiming was her spiritual husband.

BROOKS: That`s exactly right, Nancy. And apparently she told authority that at one time he left there, but she didn`t know why for some time.

GRACE: Straight probation on conspiracy for sex with a minor. And now this.

Let`s stop, let`s remember Army Private Daren Smith, 19, Helena, Montana, killed, Iraq. Left studies at University of Montana Helena College of Technology to enlist. Remembered for honesty, loyalty, loved his family, country, God and the Buffalo Bills. Wanted to travel Ireland and become a film producer. Favorite band, U2. Leaves behind parents Debra and Bruce.

Darren Smith, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. And happy birthday to Greenville, South Carolina, friend of the show, Kathy Evans. Happy birthday, friend.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END