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Lou Dobbs This Week
Bailing Out Banks, Not Borrowers; Bennie Thompson Interview
Aired April 13, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight: Seething anger over lawmakers' efforts to put the interests of corporate elite ahead of the interests of struggling homeowners in this country. We'll have a special report: War on the Middle Class.
And: The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Congressman Bennie Thompson. He's trying to stop the Homeland Security Department from securing the homeland. Congressman Thompson joins us.
We'll have all of that and a great deal more: Straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: News, debate and opinion. Here now: Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Presidential candidates tonight are trying to present themselves, apparently, as populist. Before the critical primaries in both Pennsylvania and Indiana, the candidates all discovering that perhaps it's good political strategy to consider the interests of the American middle class. Imagine that. But independent voters, who will decide the outcome of this election, remain skeptical, uncertain that any of these candidates will actually stand up for working men and women and their families.
We'll have extensive coverage.
First: Candy Crowley with the Obama campaign reporting from Lafayette, Indiana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pennsylvania is the next word, not the last.
Iraq and the economy or the economy and Iraq is the drum beat as Barack Obama opens up a four-day sweep through Indiana.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If a bank is in danger of going belly-up, they bail them out but nobody is bailing out the folks here in Gary, Indiana.
CROWLEY: The day's news offer ample opportunity for Barack to bypass Hillary Clinton as he went after George Bush for announcing a pause in troop withdrawal from Iraq. OBAMA: In other words, there is no end in sight under the Bush policy. And if that isn't enough for you to want change, I don't know what is, because it is time to bring this war in Iraq to a close.
CROWLEY: And in this state, where foreclosures have nearly tripled in a year, Obama also went after John McCain and his new plan to help some subprime mortgage holders.
OBAMA: Senator McCain's solution to the housing crisis seems like a lot like George Bush's solution to the housing crisis, which is to sit by and hope it passes by.
CROWLEY: The McCain camp says McCain's plan targets true victims of subprime loans while Obama's proposal is a $10 billion blanket bailout which will force taxpayers to rescue speculators and shady lenders.
Indiana is generally an asterisk in presidential contests but this year, if Hillary Clinton takes Pennsylvania, she leads there, and Obama later wins North Carolina, where he leads, then Indiana is the place to watch.
With just about a month to go, Indiana shapes up like this: Clinton, 49 percent, Obama, 46 percent, unsure, 5 percent, with the margin of error, that's a dead heat. Indiana hasn't voted for a Democratic president in more than 40 years and it probably won't this year either. What it will do is give definitive shape to the Democratic primary season and the Hoosiers are enjoying their place in history.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Lafayette, Indiana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Another example tonight of empty promises on the campaign trail. Senator Obama demanding that corporate shareholders have a say in how much corporate leaders are paid. It sounds pretty good to most of us, right?
But consider this. Senator Obama does not want shareholders to have the right to veto any compensation packages nor to have the right to place any limits on corporate pay. So, exactly what in the world is Senator Obama proposing? It sounds like something akin to a shareholder's meeting.
Senator Clinton says she is determined to fight to the finish against Senator Obama, presenting herself as a champion of Americans reeling from soaring energy and health care cost, skyrocketing fuel bills, and stagnant or falling wages. Senator Clinton is also emphasizing her opposition to the president's management of the war in Iraq.
Suzanne Malveaux with the Clinton campaign reports now from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In an effort to convince voters she's the anti-war candidate, Senator Clinton blasted President Bush, who earlier in the day ordered to halt withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq after July. So, his top commander could assess conditions on the ground.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the wake of the failed objectives that were laid out to be met by the surge, what is the exit strategy in Iraq?
MALVEAUX: Clinton praised Mr. Bush's decision to reduce soldier's combat tours by three months but portrayed the change as too little too late.
CLINTON: I do want to commend President Bush for cutting the length of deployments from 15 to 12 months but it is deeply unfortunate that the president only made this change when the strain he placed on our military forces absolutely required it.
MALVEAUX: Wednesday night, Senator Clinton asserted it's not too little or too late for her to still win the Democratic nomination.
At a fundraising concert with Elton John, she borrowed a line from one of his greatest hits, declaring -
CLINTON: I'm still standing.
MALVEAUX: Leaving New York City, $2.5 million richer from the event, she was back on the trail in Pennsylvania. Her encore here in Pittsburgh has ended wooing women, the working class, and those worried over the war.
But her job is getting tougher. A new survey of three polls compiled by CNN shows Barack Obama is closing in on her lead, now, just a 4 percent gap between the two: 46 percent supporting Clinton, 42 percent for Obama, and 12 percent undecided.
(on-camera): The Clinton campaign is emphasizing the positive, saying that the senator picked up three superdelegates in the last 36 hours and that she's increasing her offices in Indiana, North Carolina, and Oregon.
Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Senator Clinton is trying to downplay differences with her husband over the issue of so-called free trade. Senator Clinton says she's a strong opponent of free trade, even as former President Bill Clinton continues to sell his free trade message.
Meanwhile, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is pushing her anti-freed trade agenda. She blocked a House vote on a free trade agreement with Colombia which means that deal is now all but dead. A major defeat for the president. President Bush said, the agreement was vital for our economy and our national security.
As we reported, Democrats are blasting Senator McCain's new plans to help struggling homeowners. Critics of his plans say McCain has shifted his position on whether to use government funds to help bail out homeowners. The McCain campaign plan says the plan is designed to help what it calls deserving homeowners.
Dana Bash has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Flashback: Santa Ana, California, two weeks ago.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly.
BASH: Fast forward to McCain's political course correction.
MCCAIN: I am committed to using all the resources of this government and great nation to create opportunity.
BASH: Why the change? McCain advisers privately admit in trying to prove he understands economics 101, they neglected politics 101 -- that in times of economic trouble, candidates must talk solutions and show empathy. One McCain aide concedes, his first speech on the housing crisis lacked the compassion quotient.
MCCAIN: I will consider any and all proposals based on their cost and benefits.
BASH: Giving Democrats an opening.
CLINTON: If he got the 3:00 a.m. call on the economy, he would just let the phone ring and ring and ring.
SEN. MEL MARTINEZ, (R) FLORIDA: I would give Senator McCain an incomplete.
BASH: McCain supporters sent public signals of concern.
MARTINEZ: I think he fell short. We need to do some things that can help families, that can help people.
BASH: Thursday's housing proposal was just one attempt this week to blunt Democrats' success as painting McCain as aloof. A day earlier, he talked about corporate greed.
MCCAIN: There's many people that are very angry at Wall Street. There's many people that are angry at some -- when they see the CEO of Countrywide get a $20 million bonus just to stay in his job.
BASH: But the Democratic candidates have grabbed the meetings from the cameras with suffering homeowners, the kind of things some GOP strategists say, their party often underestimates.
B.J. COOPER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: What is important is that you're connecting with the voter and making sure you're filling that void of them feeling that somebody is watching out for them. BASH (on-camera): McCain will unveil what his campaign calls a comprehensive economic proposal next week. But right now, aides say, there are no plans in place to hold events with voters affected by the housing crisis. That has some McCain supporters concerned that he's not doing enough to actually show he understands voters' deep economic pain.
Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next: Lawmakers are too busy bailing out corporate elites to help struggling homeowners. We'll have a special report for you.
Also: A new threat to the American dream as our economic crisis worsens. We'll have that story.
And the city of Los Angeles takes its sanctuary policy for illegal alien gang members to a new level. We'll have that special report and a great deal more.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The senators passed a plan to deal with our housing crisis, a crisis that's devastating literally millions of our middle class families. The plan, however, has a flaw. It does far more to help big business than it does to help threatened homeowners.
Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Democrat-led Senate overwhelmingly passed a housing mortgage and relief plan, but gives billions of dollars in tax breaks to home builders losing money, the very companies that made a fortune during the housing boom.
Business tax breaks, the biggest chunk of the Senate plan, though it would also give a $7,000 tax credit to people who buy for closed homes, and $4 billion to local governments to buy homes and neighborhoods blighted by foreclosure.
Here in Cleveland, the foreclosure crisis has bombed out entire neighborhoods and the county treasurer is fed up with Washington politics, and the bailouts for everyone but the homeowners.
JIM ROKAKIS, CUYAHOGA COUNTY TREASURER: I mean, just look at this. Look at today, $25 billion for home builders. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You know, why don't we talk about the moral hazard of bailing out home builders who continue to build?
ROMANS: Across the country, some 20,000 families a week are losing their homes and that's just subprime foreclosures. Prime loans are beginning to fail as well.
On the campaign trail, these three senators are trying to show they feel the pain of working Americans.
The White House announced its own plan this week to help 100,000 more homeowners by the end of the year. But the end of the year might be too late. The way they see it in Cleveland -
ROKAKIS: Things are not getting better. They're getting worse. And for a lot of neighborhoods, it's too late.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Jim Rokakis in Cleveland says he's discouraged by the idea that home builders could be eligible for billions and people buying foreclosed homes could get a nice little tax break. He's concerned we're just not doing enough to prevent foreclosures, Lou, in the first place.
DOBBS: It is unequivocally, absolutely a mess. And what we're going to do ultimately is probably none of the above. We've got to do far more in this country to regulate markets, to reorganize these financial institutions, and to do something for these homeowners, as a matter of priority.
ROMANS: For a lot of people it's too late. But now, what they can do is fix it so it doesn't happen again.
DOBBS: Well, I hate that word too late, because that means a bunch of people just - that we paid to do the right thing in government can't even comprehend what the right thing is.
Christine, thanks. Christine Romans.
The credit crisis is spreading to the student loan market. Students finding it almost impossible now to qualify for private education loans and lawmakers are trying to rush legislation through Congress that would raise the number of federal loans available to students. But college costs at the same time are simply soaring and students are literally running out of ways to finance their college education.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cindy Prentom (ph) is a senior in high school, is learning about federal loans for college. Because she doesn't qualify for private loans, she will need to rely exclusively on government loans.
Federal loans which top out at $23,000 for four years don't cover tuition at many public colleges and private college tuitions are simply out of the question for most students who have to rely exclusively on federal loans.
RICHARD VEDDER, THE CTR. FOR COLL. AFFORDABILITY & PRODUCTIVITY: College costs have been going up 7 percent to 8 percent a year and student loan payments haven't been -- from the federal government have been going up quite so fast. So, kids are having to resort more and more to private lending.
PILGRIM: But private lending is drying up, partly because of a tightening credit market, partly because the once secure student customer has become a delinquency risk. Lenders like CIT Group have recently stopped offering student loans, and TERI, a nonprofit that guarantees private student loans has filed for bankruptcy.
The CEO says the students are facing tighter credit standard.
WILLIS HULINGS, EDUCATION RESOURCES INST.: A lot of the borrowing that is going to be approved are for people who have very high levels of credit. There may be some people who are not going to get approved this year who would have been approved before. Additionally, there's going to be some people who don't get enough money or the rates that they do are going to be higher.
PILGRIM: Student loans have a default rate of 4 percent to 5 percent within the first two years after graduation. But that default rate is often doubles, a few years after that time, as students fail to find and keep jobs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Two bills are currently working their way through Congress to raise the caps on federal lending to students from $23,000 to about $31,000 for a four-year college. Now, those measures are expected to make it to the president's desk, hopefully, will be signed into law within a few weeks. But, Lou, unusually quick movement in Washington, as the credit worries are rippling through the student loan industry, getting a private loan is going to be more difficult than ever for students this year.
DOBBS: It is, again, an issue that we've known was coming since the Bush administration, in effect, rollback grants for college education. Now, we have, of course, a basic economic issue as well. So, not particularly good news.
Thanks, Kitty Pilgrim.
Up next: The tragic consequences of releasing illegal alien gang members from Los Angeles gangs. We'll have a special report on L.A.'s outrageous sanctuary policy, and all of the city officials who are so proud of it, and the victims of that policy.
The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Congressman Bennie Thompson joins me. We'll ask him why he's standing in the way of protecting our border as chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. Only in Washington.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The devastated parents of a Los Angeles teenager tonight are fighting back after their son was shot and killed. The suspect in this murder is an illegal alien gang member. Now, the victim's family is demanding that the city of Los Angeles stop the protection of illegal aliens from arrest and deportation.
The city of Los Angeles says they will continue to do so.
Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jamiel Shaw, Jr. was a 17-year-old Los Angeles high school student and star runningback who caught the eye of Stanford recruiters. But he was gunned down near his house last month, police say, by Pedro Espinoza, a 19-year-old illegal alien gang member. He's pleaded not guilty to murder charges.
Jamiel's family and friends are, of course, devastated but also outraged, because Espinoza was released from county jail on unrelated charges a day before their son was killed. Shaw's family appeared at a Los Angeles City Council meeting Tuesday.
JAMIEL SHAW, SR., FATHER: My son was murdered by someone that was not in the country, was not in the country legally, and he was a documented 18th Street gang member that was I'm sure in the database and when he was released he was released into the community.
ANITA SHAW, MOTHER: We'd like to give a shout-out to my son.
WIAN: Jamie's mother is an active duty sergeant in the army.
A. SHAW: My son, while I was in Iraq, was murdered by illegal alien that is a gang member. And me, serving the country, serving the states, serving the United States, I think, that's an awful shame.
WIAN: Jamiel's family stresses they don't want to increase tensions between blacks and Latinos but they do want change, specifically, that Los Angeles end its policy of forbidding police officers from apprehending known illegal alien gang members unless they're caught committing another crime.
JUDY MOORE, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: Do you know who the gang members are? Get rid of them. Send them home. They don't belong here.
WIAN: City council members were not permitted to respond directly at the meeting. But later, a few promised to consider ways to modify the LAPD policy, known as Special Order 40. Others said it would unfairly target the Latino community.
ED REYES, LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCIL: It will cause division because our economy isn't ready for that. I think we will suffer more. Our sense of community, I think, will be shattered.
WIAN: Police Chief William Bratton (ph) supports Special Order 40, saying he doesn't want illegal aliens to fear cooperating with police. At the same time, a family, minus a son and big brother, still grieves.
J. SHAW, SR.: He asks me every day, dad, I miss Jam, you know. He wants his brother. All he talks about every day is he wants to invent a time machine, because he wants to go back. We want him back. But we can't get him back. And it hurts every day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Federal and local law enforcement are also investigating why Espinoza was not flagged for deportation during his four-month jail stay on charges of brandishing a weapon and resisting arrest.
Also this week: Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa called on ICE to do more to deport illegal alien gang members, yet he continues to support the LAPD policy that prohibits officers from arresting gang members for immigration law violations. Lou.
DOBBS: The mayor is quite busy, because at the same time, he's writing letters to Michael Chertoff, the secretary of Homeland Security, saying, do not -- do not go after employers of illegal -- the illegal employers of illegal aliens. The man is making a mockery out of law. He is making a mockery out of his responsibility as the mayor of a city. I mean, what country does he think he's in?
WIAN: You know, he thinks that if Immigration and Customs Enforcement actually enforces the law against employers of illegal aliens, it's going to be devastating for the economy of Los Angeles. He also thinks that if he allows the LAPD to go ahead and arrest illegal alien gang members who they know have already been deported and are operating freely on the streets and that's going to cause all illegal aliens to fear cooperating with police.
All he has to do is look about 300 or 400 miles to the east, here in Phoenix, Arizona, where the sheriff there is taking no quarter against illegal aliens and actually deporting them, helping ICE enforce immigration law. Illegal aliens are leaving Arizona on their own, and the economy has not been impacted hardly at all, Lou. So, it can work.
DOBBS: It is a point of fact working as you suggest in Arizona but the idea that this mayor has, I mean, this is pretty bold on the part Villaraigosa and the city council. They have a school system that doesn't work. They have a community that is not working. They have some of the worst gang violence in this country.
And this guy stands up, holding forth like he is some sort of sanctimonious righteous leader. He is devastating, and his city is devastated by the impact of illegal immigration by a host of absurd policies, they're going bankrupt on top of everything else but that's true of the entire state, isn't it?
WIAN: It sure is. Too many politicians, especially in Southern California believe they're not going to get reelected unless they pander the supporters of illegal aliens.
DOBBS: Well, they may get reelected but that state is basically -- it looks almost like one flush away from finding their perfect place in history.
Thanks a lot, appreciate it, Casey Wian.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
John in Texas said, "Lou, why can't we take all federal money away from these self-professed sanctuary cities? If they want to provide a sanctuary for illegal aliens, let them do it on their own local tax money."
I think you're exactly right. But it is a mark of this gutless Democratically-led Congress that you won't see that happen.
And Charlene in Nevada: "Go, Lou, go. Homeland defense? Not with this government. This group of knotheads only answers to corporate America and China."
And a few other special interests.
Dee in Texas said, "I work for a telecommunications company that paid our last CEO $54 million in severance for doing a poor job and the rest of us get nothing. To top it off, my counterparts have trained their replacements in India and we're now told outsourcing is a good thing. When is this madness going to end?"
Not until you and I end it.
And Barbara in North Carolina: "Lou, now that I'm an independent, I don't have to vote for anyone that doesn't listen to what Americans want and expect from their government."
And that is the answer.
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts to LouDobbs.com and join me on the radio, Monday through Friday for the "Lou Dobbs Show." Go to LouDobbs.com to find local listings for the "Lou Dobbs Show," Monday through Friday on the afternoons on the radio.
Up next: The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Congressman Bennie Thompson joins me to explain why he opposes homeland security along our border with Mexico.
Also: Corporate elites have found a new way to import cheap foreign labor to replace American workers.
And: Will any of these presidential candidates do anything to help this country's middle class? Are these candidates simply full of empty rhetoric?
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congressman Bennie Thompson is the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee and he's leading an effort to block construction of a fence that is ordered by law, to be built along our border with Mexico. Congressman Thompson argues that the Department of Homeland Security is breaking the law, trying to stop illegal alien and drug smugglers from entering this country.
Congressman Thompson is good enough to join us tonight to argue this view from Capitol Hill. Mr. Chairman, good to have you here.
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D), HOMELAND SECURITY CHMN.: Well, I'm glad to be here, Lou, even though your premise is absolutely wrong.
DOBBS: Well, let's get to that. I say that the Department of Homeland Security should be securing the homeland and should be doing as expeditiously as possible and you as the chairman of Homeland Security Committee in the House should be making that job easier, not more difficult.
THOMPSON: Well, let me tell you how I've made it more easier, Lou.
DOBBS: OK.
THOMPSON: As a Democratic chairman, I pushed through $3 billion for border security. We now have 15,000 border agents working along the border, going toward 16,000 and that's what we have to do. We have equipment, we have all those things going on. But you know, we also have to follow the law.
DOBBS: Well we have to follow the law and the law does permit Secretary Chertoff to carry out waivers on those laws to get this done, and in point of fact, as you know, the United States Congress laid down a law that this fence would be built. It is, by the way, I think demonstrably effective unlike some of the people who signing on with (Kerai) that will be filed with the Supreme Court apparently in the next few weeks. You know, the fact is it must work because they're fighting so hard against that fence, Mr. Chairman.
THOMPSON: Well, no, I think people want to do is to follow the law. Some of those waivers, Lou, will do away with the Clean Water Act. They'll do away with clean air. They will endanger cemeteries, religious institutions. So there are some things that we've had in law for years that we need to protect. And so what I'm trying to do, along with others, is to say to the secretary, just follow the law. We've given you the money. All you have to do is carry out the law.
DOBBS: But isn't that a hollow and false order, because you know that it can't be done expeditiously and effectively, because it could be tied up in court for literally decades, Mr. Chairman, and isn't it true also that your committee has not once taken into consideration 25 million pounds of waste and damage to the environment along our border with Mexico. There's been no step taken nor any step urge by your committee for either the border patrol, customs, bureau of reclamation, department of Homeland Security, to do anything with that. And point of fact is we are sitting here waging a war on illegal drugs along that southern border. Let's leave illegal immigration out of it, because that obviously is a point that apparently is favored by the members of those on this 14-congressmen who are going to be advancing their interests at the Supreme Court. But the fact is -- THOMPSON: But Lou, no --
DOBBS: The fact is Mexico remains a primary source of methamphetamine, cocaine, heroine and marijuana into this country and your committee continues to permit those drugs to enter this country. It's not all of the fight on the war on drugs, but, sir, it is an important vital, just absolutely vital element of necessarily combating those drugs.
THOMPSON: Well, Lou, I want you to understand one more time.
DOBSS: I'll sure try.
THOMPSON: My committee gave $3 billion toward border security, more than in the history of this committee before I became chairman.
DOBBS: Um-hum.
THOMPSON: I've made border security a priority. Now, for your information, we're talking about the waiver on building the fence. We're not talking about any of those --
DOBBS: That's exactly right.
THOMPSON: -- issues. Now, I have for you, since you have sometimes difficulty understanding.
DOBBS: I have limited comprehension. I couldn't agree more, Mr. Chairman.
THOMPSON: So I have 36 items that the waiver would do, and so if we have used these laws to build dams, to build nuclear plants, to build power generation facilities, military bases, why can't we use these same laws to do the fence? And that's all I'm saying, is let's just follow the law. We need to protect the property rights of citizens, and we need to make sure all of that --
DOBBS: You're committee and everyone opposing the construction of that fence and securing that border is putting the lives of young Americans at risk, because you are not fighting with every resource at your disposal those people who would bring those illegal drugs into this country and the majority of those drugs are entering across that border.
THOMPSON: All you have to do is look at the facts. On my committee, we've made money appropriated and authorized for it. We've done the right things. We've put more people, more equipment, but we need a border security plan. We need a strategy. That strategy could include physical barriers. It also should include more boots on the ground.
DOBBS: Well now --
THOMPSON: But it also should include technology but it has to be a strategy. It shouldn't be just run out there, ignore property rights of individuals. DOBBS: um-hum.
THOMPSON: This is a country of laws but we need to do is work the laws--
DOBBS: Absolutely. You need to secure the border. 95% of the cargo entering our ports are still uninspected, Mr. Chairman, and you're telling me we're a nation of laws?
THOMPSON: That's right and you know why? Because I passed the law, House Bill 1 that requires 100% -- please.
DOBBS: Because you and your democratic colleagues and your republican colleagues refuse to represent the will of the majority in this country and to look after national interest and the common good rather than special interests.
THOMPSON: Well again you got it wrong, Lou.
DOBBS: I may have.
THOMPSON: If you read the law, we are requiring within five years, 100% cargo screening.
DOBBS: Right.
THOMPSON: We talked to the business community --
DOBBS: That will be what? 12 years after September 11th?
THOMPSON: No.
DOBBS: I think you should be - I got to say, every democrat and every republican capitol hill should be proud of himself or herself for what you've done for the American people.
THOMPSON: We passed a law requiring 100% screening.
DOBBS: Then I suppose that's --
THOMPSON: That's what we have to do and we're doing it, we're moving forward with it and I think you need to give the people the facts. Now, sure, we identified screening as a problem, but we are about the business of fixing it. If we required it today, commerce would stop, and so what we've done is work with the business community, and other communities to try to get it right, and they are saying within this period of time --
DOBBS: Mr. Chairman, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree I guess is the expression.
THOMPSON: Well.
DOBBS: But I appreciate you being here and I hope you come back. We used up a lot of time. I appreciate it.
THOMPSON: I came on your show because I think the other side needs to be told.
DOBBS: Well, I appreciate that. You bring the other side any time you want. You're more than welcome.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the Bush administration selling out American workers, still for the benefit of big business, again. We'll have that report and some members of congress actually putting national security ahead of political expediency and commercial interests. Wow! That's dividing the republican party, as you might expect. We'll have that story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Business looking to hire cheap labor celebrating a victory handed to them by the Bush administration. The Department of Homeland Security is changing the rules to extend visas to technology students. The extended stays will give foreign students a far better chance of being hired in this country at a time when more and more Americans are out of work. What's it all about? Bill Tucker tells us in this report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: Microsoft's Bill Gates wasn't shy, making his wishes known to Congress last month.
BILL GATES, MICROSOFT CHAIRMAN: There are a number of steps that Congress and the White House should take to address this problem, including extending the period that foreign students can work here, after graduation.
TUCKER: He got his wish. The Department of Homeland Security has now announced new rules that allow foreign students graduating with degrees in science, technology, engineering and math, to stay and work for two and a half years after graduation. It's a move that angered Senator Charles Grassley, who calls it corporate America's "latest attempt to get around the H1B program." Critics of the program argue that such policies undercut American graduates in those fields.
PAUL ALAMEDA, AFL-CIO: The projection is the growth of this industry is about 120,000 jobs per year and this is in the high tech needing math and science degrees and we're graduating in excess of 300,000 with bachelor's, masters and PhDs from U.S. universities.
TUCKER: Despite there being an apparent oversupply, corporate America continues to lobby to expand the H-1B program and one former programmer who now campaigns against the program fears it's only a matter of time before Gates gets his other wish, the caps on the H-1B visa are abolished.
JOHN MIANO, ATTORNEY: We have created a system in Washington, you know, of lobbyists and firmly entrenched politicians who in general are not working in the interests of the American people.
TUCKER: There are now two bills in Congress that would more than double the size of the H1B program. They were introduced the day after Gates testified last month. The extension by DHS was effective immediately. Critics call it a back door expansion of the H-1B visa program, one which they note has no wage protection for workers or protections for U.S. students. Bill Tucker, CNN, New York.
DOBBS: The federal government says it's reached the limit of H-1B visa applications that it will accept for next year's program. The official limit is 65,000 of those visas. Last week, the citizenship and Immigration Services Agency started accepting applications from corporations to bring in even more cheap foreign labor. The United States already has at least ten guest worker programs.
Republicans and the House of Representatives are now divided over whether or not to give away more foreign worker visas. Some republicans want to bring even more cheap labor into this country. Other house republicans say it's time to focus instead on our borders and securing them. Lisa Sylvester has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN, CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thousands of foreign low-skilled laborers come to the United States to work in seasonal jobs. It's part of what's known as the H-2B program. There's an annual cap of 66,000 workers but that's not enough as far as some businesses are concerned. They're looking to renew an exemption that in previous years allowed them to bring in thousands more workers than now allowed.
REP. CHARLES BOUSTANY (R), LOUISIANA: I've got seafood processor, crab facilities, shrimp facilities, crawfish facilities that need these temporary workers to come in at peak times, and it's critical, otherwise these businesses will fail.
SYLVESTER: The issue has split republicans. Those backing corporate interests and those pushing for tough immigration enforcement. Congressman Brian Birbray says before we bring in more cheap labor on a temporary basis, how do we know they'll actually leave when their time is up? He said there is no adequate worker verification system and Americans are fed up with illegal immigration and Congress's failure to secure the border.
REP. BRIAN BILBRA (R), CALIFORNIA: Washington isn't willing to prove to the American people that they'll do the right thing first, and earn the trust of the American people and immigration before Washington continues to ask America to trust Washington one more time.
SYLVESTER: The H-2B visa expansion was part of the Senate's failed comprehensive immigration reform bill last year. This year, democratic leaders are still pushing for changes in immigration law. They're keeping the H-2B bill from coming to the floor, unless it includes temporary visas for illegal aliens.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SYLVESTER: The H-2B visa program also ignited a debate over whether more Americans would step in and do these labor jobs if foreign workers were not brought in. Members of Congress who favor tougher border control say they would if wages were higher. Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.
DOBBS: Up next, the candidates try to reinvent themselves, as champions of the middle class and Barack Obama's former pastor, well, he has a new speech date, an important speech. How will this affect Senator Obama's campaign? Well, we'll have a few thoughts about that when we continue. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the best political analysts, Errol Louis, columnist "New York Daily News," democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf, Diana West, columnist, "Washington Times," also the author of "The death of the Grownup." Hank, let's start with you. The democratic party now, we have Senator Barack Obama wants shareholders to decide about CEO and executive pay, except not really.
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Except not really and it's always good to read the fine print. In fact, shareholders have that ability right now, it's called annual shareholder meetings. But why not say these things in Pennsylvania as you get closer to the end of the Pennsylvania primary so the populist streak will rise even higher.
DOBBS: Well, I mean, this is particularly shallow and transparent. I mean, what's he thinking?
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, it's a toe in the water but at least...
DOBBS: A toe in the water?
LOUIS: He recognized that there's a pool there which is a good idea. I mean, look, the reality is that with the CEO compensation and so far out of line with the actual performance of corporations, people are being rewarded as they downsize, as they relocate, as they outsource. You know, anything that stirs up the popular outrage over this is probably a good thing and I hope the other candidates will bid him up and put in their own sort of notions to go further than just mere suggestion.
DOBBS: Artfully done I have to say, Errol, that was extraordinary. Raising the ante on this one, not requiring many chips for it, it's certainly fertile territory for them. Diana West, I don't know about this guy, McCain. You know, he basically is throwing out a "let them eat cake" strategy two weeks ago in the housing crisis and this week, he sort of let them eat cake and have a little extra frosting. What is he thinking about here?
DIANA WEST, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Well, I think he's chasing the democrats here. And I would not it call it a let-them-eat-cake strategy on the housing crisis. I would call it good old-fashioned conservatism, in terms of trying to appeal to personal responsibility and not the government is the answer.
DOBBS: You mean like they did with Bear Stearns, like what they're doing with the builders?
WEST: Yes.
DOBBS: They come up with these programs. I'm telling you both parties --
WEST: That's not conservatism.
DOBBS: Well, I don't care about conservatism. I don't care about conservatism. I don't care about liberalism. Both are phony frauds at the polar extremes of the American political spectrum. So, let's get that out of the way.
WEST: Well, how about self-reliance?
DOBBS: Fine I'll take on self-reliance.
WEST: I like self-reliance.
DOBBS: Me, too.
WEST: For a minute.
SHEINKOPF: How about self-delusion, Diana?
WEST: We got plenty of that all over the place.
SHEINKOPF: Self delusion by McCain who can't get a strategy right or who doesn't understand how he's going to win in the fall.
WEST: That may be. That may all be but I think...
SHEINKOPF: ...who thinks he's got an idea, who is all over the place and giving the democrats plenty of room to maneuver, not smart.
WEST: Yes. I think you're exactly right. But I think, yes, I think you're exactly right. He put his finger in the air and decided he'd better have a housing bailout plan, too, that doesn't allow the market to crack and that makes the president into a father figure, rather than a president.
DOBBS: I'm supposed to be going to break but I got to tell you something here. You start talking about conservatism and we got some other folks talking about liberalism and democratism and republicanism, let's really be honest though Diana, whether you're on the left or the right here, on this panel or in this country, the reality is if this government had carried out its responsibilities and actually regulated these financial markets as is their absolute and unequivocal responsibility, we wouldn't be in this mess, having to listen to conservative pandering, liberal pandering, all of the nonsense in between, would we?
WEST: That may be true but I think -- DOBBS: No, no, that is true.
WEST: Well I think there's also a deeper problem here which speaks to --
DOBBS: Deeper than that?
WEST: Yes, in the American personality. It is expected the government will bail you out when you have a problem. That doesn't fix things and again we get farther and farther from self-reliance.
DOBBS: Can I can raise my hand, please?
WEST: ... population ...
DOBBS: Please, you show me an American who is walking around here expecting this federal government, this dysfunctional institution called the federal government to bail them out, expecting it? The only people expecting it --
WEST: I think so.
DOBBS: ... are the same free trade, free market nonsensical blathering public officials and CEOs and business leaders in this country who talk big about Mr. Market and as soon as times get tough they are the ones who start screaming for a bailout and forget about their ideological position, right?
WEST: That may be.
DOBBS: What do you mean that may be? It is.
WEST: I'm no free trader, Lou, but I do believe that the government candidates who are now running for President are trying to outbid each other in terms of trying to buy the votes. Give every kind of program billions here for housing, billions for student loans, for heating oil.
DOBBS: Errol, you're up.
LOUIS: On the housing question, there's no question that McCain is trying to sort of get away from the let-them-eat=cake because I think somebody probably showed him a map of the country and showed where the worst foreclosure crisis is in Florida and Ohio, and Nevada, and Colorado. And all of these swing states...
DOBBS: And California.
LOUIS: And California, all of these swing states that he's going to need to really campaign in, in the fall.
SHEINKOPF: If he feels the way he says he does then we're in trouble in the first place, OK? His base is going to disappear. He will not be able to extend it. He's got trouble.
DOBBS: I think we have reached an agreement on one thing. WEST: What's that?
DOBBS: We're in trouble and we'll be right back with this table in just a moment. Stay with us. Our roundtable continues.
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DOBBS: We're back with "Lou Dobbs" contributors Errol Lewis, Hank Sheinkopf and Diana West. We're just talking now about how much trouble we're in. My question to each of you is let's assume that one of these four candidates, Ralph Nader, John McCain, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama becomes president. Which one of these four inspires such confidence in this country, inspires such confidence in these markets, in this economy, that we are on our way to peace and prosperity with the election, which one, Hank?
SHEINKOPF: None. The correct answer is none.
DOBBS: It's scary. It really is scary.
LOUIS: To me it's an opportunity not to be too melodramatic about it but when Franklin Roosevelt was elected in the 1930s, they started out with some half measures when it became clear that the dimensions of the depression were worse than anybody imagined. They went further and further and further. I think these folks are sort of turning a willful blind eye to reality, when it hits sometime next year, which ever candidate is the new president, is I think going to have to pull Congress along and really get serious about this, leave the earmarks alone, leave these half measures alone.
DOBBS: Really get serious about this but the question is Errol, which one of these candidates will be inspiring the greatest confidence that we'll see these markets and resurgence of the economy rebound and assert its resilience, which one will inspire that kind of confidence?
LOUIS: That's a great question. Lord knows, if I knew.
SHEINKOPF: Somebody has to rise to the occasion. Someone will have to rise to the occasion. That's the American story.
WEST: Well, the country can rise to the occasion. None of these candidates we've talked about for all of these many months are inspiring to any of us I think and that's certainly true of me but the American people remain inspiring and I'm hoping that that is where we'll find our salvation. Not in our president. Our president can't fix these things.
DOBBS: Well, that's not what they're telling us for sure, that's not exactly what the mainstream media is telling us. Nor for that matter the ideologues, Diana West, on the left or the right, usually holding them up to litmus test of liberalism or conservatism.
Let's go to the idea that right now, one of these candidates will be president. Let's assume that it's Barack Obama, or Hillary Clinton, is there a distinction, is there a real difference between these two in their policies? SHEINKOPF: We don't know enough about what their policies really are. We know a lot about Hillary's experience and we know a good deal about Barack Obama's life, but Barack Obama has never been in a position where's hey to make these decisions and Hillary, frankly, Hillary Clinton has been in the White House and watched them happen and been involved in significant programs but running an economy with these kinds of problems, creating monetary policy, dealing with this kind of war, all these things happening at the same time.
DOBBS: So, you don't see a difference.
SHEINKOPF: it's very hard to determine what they would do.
DOBBS: Errol?
LOUIS: I agree. Look, we're getting broad strokes from them. When it comes down to details, like who will they name to their council of economic advisers, what kind of tax stimulus will they push or not push. You know, what sectors do they want to favor both in overseas trade and domestically? They're not talking about that stuff on the campaign trail. I mean, you know, it varies with whatever factory they happen to be in but, you know, that is going to tell the story.
DOBBS: Who is going to win in Pennsylvania?
LOUIS: I am going to hold to my post-New Hampshire policy of not predicting the outcome of races in states that I have not personally done reporting from. So, after I get to Pennsylvania --
DOBBS: What kind of journalist are you? You're letting the facts or the absence of facts influence your opinion?
LOUIS: It just works out better for me and for the readers of the "Daily News." I can't help it. I'm old school.
DOBBS: Well, we all salute you here. Diana West, your thoughts in terms of the difference for these candidates running in Pennsylvania and the likely winner based on the fact there is presumably in your view as well no difference?
WEST: I m starting to think in terms of analyzing long-term damage to the country, when I look at these three candidates, and I think that a Hillary Clinton candidacy would probably put a Clinton machine in place. A Barack Obama candidacy would crash and burn ala Jimmy Carter. I haven't decided on a McCain candidacy and in all honesty I haven't even decided who I'm voting for.
DOBBS: Well, with that saying, Hank?
SHEINKOPF: Pennsylvania, Hillary Clinton will win that and will win the primary.
DOBBS: And the distinction between the two candidates, notwithstanding, how well the Pennsylvania voters will make that determination? SHEINKOPF: Try as Jimmy Hoffa might to make Barack Obama look like he's a lot older and more concerned about industrial jobs, Hillary is in the right age group. York of Candy Company closing 250,000 jobs lost in Pennsylvania. Significant.
DOBBS: Those jobs going to Mexico.
SHEINKOPF: Mexico.
DOBBS: Hank, thank you very much. Errol, thank you. Diana, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
And we thank you for joining us. Join us here tomorrow. For all of us, thanks for watching and good night from New York.
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