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Pope to Visit U.S.; Stalled Train Ties up Chicago Commuters; Airline Merger Could Impact Travelers; Plane Crashes in Congo; Polygamist Mothers Speak Out About Raid

Aired April 15, 2008 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CO-HOST: It's big. In fact, it could be the biggest in the world. Now that a proposed merger is announced, what's next for Delta and Northwest, you and the public, the flying public?
And new images from a ranch where children from a polygamy compound have been removed. Hear from one of their mothers in an emotional interview. We'll go live to Texas. We'll do that in just a moment.

Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Good afternoon, everyone. Before we get to the news, we want to welcome back my co-anchor, Kyra Phillips, who just returned from assignment in Baghdad. We'll talk a little bit about that later on in the NEWSROOM. But right now she is in Washington, and she is awaiting the arrival of the pope -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: That's right. Thanks, Don.

I'm here to cover the arrival of Pope Benedict. As you know, I'll be reporting on his first visit to America. Shepherd One is due to arrive at Andrews Air Force Base in just a few hours. We're going to have much more on the pope's visit throughout the day and all this week right here in the NEWSROOM, including some special guests today also, who I'll tell you about in just a few minutes, Don.

LEMON: All right. Thanks a lot, Kyra. We'll check back with you a little bit later on in the hour. Not long. Thanks. Good to see you.

We want to go now to some breaking news happening in Chicago. It was a train evacuation this morning. Actually, it was stalled because we hear there was a power outage on that train. Esmeralda Cuevas, she was arider on the train, and she tells us about a harrowing experience.

You say your problem was with communication, lack of communication on the train.

ESMERALDA CUEVAS, STRANDED ON TRAIN: Yes. That was the main issue that we all had with everything. You know, initially we were hearing that the train in front of us, you know, just had a malfunction. And we kept hearing the same report over and over. And we knew something obviously bigger was going on, you know, with the power being out. And there was no air circulation, no light.

LEMON: Nothing. So no light, but in Chicago the temperatures are pretty mild today.

CUEVAS: Right.

LEMON: I mean, I know in Chicago they can range either from very high temperatures or very low temperatures. So you were lucky with that.

What were the passengers aboard the train doing?

CUEVAS: Well, I feel really fortunate. My -- the car I was in, we were pretty calm for, I think, as long as can be expected. Although, you know, it was rush hour, and Chicago rush hour as everyone knows, you know, the trains are packed. So we were like sardines. It got warm really quickly. And we were getting cranky. And you know, we all had to go to work or go to school. You know, we had to be somewhere.

So -- but from what I can tell once we were off our cars, you know, it wasn't the same for every car. There were a lot of people, you know, really upset and causing a stir. You know, some people became violent. So, you know, my personal experience was a decent one compared to what others went through.

LEMON: Yes, I don't know if you remember back in the summer of 2006. It was very hot and there was a train derailment inside a tunnel right under the bridge.

CUEVAS: Right.

LEMON: Do you remember that?

CUEVAS: Yes. It was the same train. It was the Blue Line.

LEMON: Yes. And you weren't on that one, as well, were you?

CUEVAS: Oh, no. Thank goodness.

LEMON: Yes. Well, we're glad you're OK. But again, there's a problem with the train there. Esmeralda Cuevas, joining us from Chicago from telephone.

A harrowing experience, as she said, for many passengers this morning. Up to 100 people evacuated from that train as it was stalled in a subway tunnel.

We'll continue to update you on that story. But we're hearing everyone is out now. And they shipped people off in buses, got them out of that tunnel. It may be a while, though, before the train is -- that line is back up and running in that particular area. But again, we will keep you posted.

Now we want to go from the trains to the sky. The airline industry as we know it could be forever changing. Delta and Northwest are planning to join forces in a deal that would spawn the world's biggest carrier. And it could set the stage for more mega mergers right in the future.

We know this is a big deal, but will it take off? And is bigger necessarily better, especially when it comes to you and your ticket?

Let's go straight to our senior business correspondent, Ali Velshi, in New York.

Is bigger better when it comes to the airline industry?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Depends on your perspective. If you are looking for lower fare prices, that's probably not going to happen as a result of a merger like this, because some competition is being pulled out of the arena. That never really helps consumers.

If you're looking for more efficiency, if you're looking for an airline that's going to be more profitable, if you're looking at it as a shareholder, it probably is better.

But the history of the airline industry, no one's really got the size right. Some of the biggest airlines in the world that have run into problems have gone bankrupt as Delta and Northwest both had. They just emerged from bankruptcy about a year ago.

Here's what's going to happen. This airline is going to be called Delta. It's going to be based out of Atlanta. It's going to serve -- it's going to be the biggest in the world by traffic. It's going to have 390 cities it serves, 67 countries. More than 75,000 employees.

They're saying they're not going to close the hubs. There are seven hub cities between these two airlines in the United States, and they're going to stay open. Salt Lake City, Cincinnati, Atlanta and New York for Delta, and -- what is it -- Minneapolis, Detroit and Memphis for Northwest. Plus, Amsterdam and Tokyo as international hubs.

Does need approval, though. It's -- the Department of Justice and Department of Transport have to approve this. The shareholders have to approve it. And right now, the Northwest pilots, Don, are not on side with this deal.

So let's say it gets all its approvals six to eight months down the road. Then they have to integrate the airlines, and that could take several more months.

I just spoke to the CEO of FareCompare.com. They track air fares. And they say, because of fuel prices and the increases that we've seen over the last several months, Don, don't let this news stop you from booking your ticket. You'll probably do better to book your summer travel now than to wait to see what happens. Because by the time you book that ticket, those surcharges will have added up to such a point that you'll be paying $100 or more than you are now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICK SEANEY, CEO, FARECOMPARE.COM: Passenger are paying up to $130 more than they did on January 2. We've had 11 increases, seven of them now that are basically, for the most part, stuck. The other four got rolled back.

People are paying well over $100 more than they did earlier in the year. And I don't see it stopping for the foreseeable future. We're actually on pace right now for potentially 40 increases this year if it stays on pace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: So that's the point, Don. The airfares are going up anyway. You may not see it as a result of this merger, necessarily, but you probably won't see airfares going down as a result of it.

LEMON: CNN business correspondent Ali Velshi. Ali, thank you for that.

And speaking of flying, we want to talk about this. Armed pilots: are they under the gun because of government rules? Some of them say yes, and they want changes.

Just last month a pilot's gun went off as he was preparing to land in North Carolina. The investigation into how that happened, well, it still goes on. But some pilot groups say cumbersome federal rules could be to blame. Cumbersome federal rules could be to blame.

We want to turn now to our special investigation unit correspondent, Drew Griffin. He joins us now. He's been checking into this controversy. So is it cumbersome? Is that to blame? One thing?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're going to show you right now. These armed pilots, the federal flight deck officers, they've been carrying guns aboard flights since the September 11 attacks. They say they're handling their guns far too much, and federal rules are requiring them to lock -- unlock their guns in specific holsters whenever they exit or enter the cockpit.

Now, the pilots are saying that is what caused the gun to go off in a cockpit last month.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): This is the holster that the pilots are complaining about. It's designed to be locked. Only according to the pilots, locking the gun into the holster while it is loaded can be dangerous.

When you get into the cockpit the lock comes off. Any time you leave the cockpit, the lock goes on. The lock surrounds the trigger. And former weapons instructor and police officer Paul Huebl showed us just how easy it would be to get the lock in the wrong place of a loaded gun. PAUL HUEBL, FORMER WEAPONS INSTRUCTOR: As you can see this looks very secure. It looks like it's snapped. You don't really think too much about it. And what happens is that the -- you have this very small hole to look through. You can't really see where the trigger is. If it is behind or if it's in front.

And so what happens is the flight deck officer, he has to string this padlock through it again, but then he discovers, wait a minute. My holster is unsnapped. And then in order to snap it...

GRIFFIN (on camera): You just fired the gun.

HUEBL: I just fired the gun. And anything to my left, hopefully it's pointed in a safe direction, but in a cockpit I think that's pretty -- pretty dangerous no matter where it's pointed.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): That is the scenario the pilots group says happened on a U.S. Air flight when the pilot was preparing to land. Stowing the gun, the gun went off, leaving a hole in the cockpit and the side of the plane. The pilot has been placed on administrative leave.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: The federal air marshal service overseas the armed pilots program. Its spokesman, Greg Alter (ph), tells us that "the incident that occurred aboard an in-flight aircraft on March 22 was a one-of-a-kind occurrence."

He said the TSA's current gun policy, consistent with long- standing law enforcement practices. And while not releasing any of the details of the investigation, due to security concerns, Alter told us that "any lessons learned will be implemented."

The pilots just want to be able to carry their guns, like air marshals do, unlocked, safely on their bodies, so they don't have to handle them at all unless, Don, there's an emergency. You don't want to be handling the gun.

LEMON: You don't want to be. But it seems like when you are in a confined space, you know, like the cockpit and you're fumbling around in there, I mean, can't they understand that?

GRIFFIN: Well, that's what the pilots say. They say, "We don't want to have this lock."

LEMON: Right.

GRIFFIN: And some of them have the lock, and they're trying to unlock it. And, you know, any firearms instructor will tell you -- and I've talked to quite a few -- the less you handle a gun...

LEMON: Gun.

GRIFFIN: ... the safer the gun is.

LEMON: OK.

GRIFFIN: And the problem is these rules force to you handle that gun.

LEMON: Special investigations correspondent, Drew Griffin. Drew, as always, much appreciated.

Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's been more than nine years since a pope set out for America, but Benedict XVI is on his way. The leader of the world's billion-plus Catholics is due to land at Andrews Air Force Base just outside Washington at 3:45 p.m. Eastern, less than three hours from now.

President Bush will there to meet him. That's a first for any president hosting any VIP.

Benedict visits the White House tomorrow, which happens to be his 81st birthday. And before he goes home late Sunday, he's going to meet with Catholic educators, celebrate masses at Nationals Park in Washington and, yes, go to Yankee Stadium in New York. He's going to visit Ground Zero in lower Manhattan and then address the U.N.

And if you're wondering whether and how the pope will address the clergy sex abuse scandal that has so damaged his American flock, he already has. Shepherd One was barely off the ground when the pope spoke with journalists onboard. And among them, CNN senior Vatican analyst, John Allen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: He is of an unknown quantity among many American Catholics. I think the recent poll found -- by the Pew Forum (ph) found that about 2/3 of Americans -- American Catholics still know almost nothing about this person. In that sense he's coming to introduce himself.

And he took a first step in that regard this morning aboard the papal plane, coming back to speak with reporters, taking one question in English and responding in English on the sex abuse crisis. And in dealing with it, I think, quite forcefully, indicating that he is personally aware of the suffering that this crisis has caused, saying that it is difficult for him to understand how priests could have betrayed their mission to bring healing and God's love to children. Finally indicating in very forceful language that their -- the Catholic Church is committed to the exclusion of pedophiles from the priesthood.

So I think, as a debut goes, that's certainly one big question many Catholics had: what will the hope say about the sex abuse crisis? And before he even arrived in American air space, he dealt with it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Still ahead in the NEWSROOM, we're going to get a preview of the pope's American reception from two very well-connected Catholic journalists. Our Jeanne Meserve also will shed some light on security measures that are incredibly tight and largely invisible here.

And don't forget protocol. We're going to learn the finer points of meeting and greeting a pope from the chief of staff to first lady Laura Bush -- Don.

LEMON: So it's almost like when you're royalty, you have certain things you have to say. Kyra, we'll get back to you on that. Thank you very much.

We want to get to this news just in, Kyra, before we talk more about that. We're talking about this plane crash in the Congo. Real quickly, we have some new casualty figures to tell you about.

At least 75 passengers and crew members killed in that. And 15 survivors, including the plane's pilot and co-pilot. This was a DC-9. It went down just after take-off from the city of Goma, crashing into a densely populated neighborhood near the runway. Engine failure, we are told, is to blame. That's the initial, initial outlook on that.

Joining me now by telephone is Mick Davy. He's a journalist.

Now, Mick, I understand that you witnessed this.

MICK DAVY, JOURNALIST: I didn't actually witness the moment of the crash itself. I arrived on the scene with my film crew shortly after the crash. And what we saw was a scene of complete devastation.

The aircraft had crashed shortly after -- in fact it didn't even take off. It skidded right off the end of the runway and plowed onto a very busy market area in a very busy section of Goma. And it plowed right through a series of shops and market stores.

LEMON: And very busy at the time, you said.

And the people on the ground, what was the reaction? If you got there shortly afterwards, tell us about the scene, the people who witnessed it and were in the area when this happened?

DAVY: When we arrived, it was a scene of complete chaos. There was somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 people who had surrounded the wreckage of the aircraft. Some of those -- many of those people were there to have a look at what had happened. Some wanted to find out who had been killed. Others were trying to determine who had survived the tragedy.

A whole lot of people were trying to put out the fire, trying to prevent it from reaching other market stalls in the immediate vicinity.

Perhaps one of the most touching, but also tragic moments in all of this that I saw was Congolese women filling plastic buckets with water from taps nearby, passing those buckets to men who had formed a line through the wreckage and into the area which were on fire. They were literally trying to put out the flames with buckets of water.

There's simply no infrastructure here, no emergency services to speak of. And -- and this is how this large crash was being dealt with.

LEMON: So you know, here in the U.S., in developed countries, you see fire crews and emergency workers rushing to the scene, putting out these flames with fire trucks. You don't see that where you are. Is that what you're telling me?

DAVY: Well, we didn't -- we definitely didn't see professional emergency workers on the scene. What we did see after a little while was the presence of the United Nations peace-keeping force, which is comprised primarily of a group of Indian soldiers, Sikh soldiers. They arrived on the scene with a large water truck and were able to get that water truck fairly close to the wreckage.

At first, as best as I could tell, they couldn't get the pump on the water truck going. And so women were continuing to fight the fire by filling plastic buckets with water. Eventually, the U.N. peace- keeping team managed to get the pump on the water truck going. But it was an inadequate sort of stream of water.

LEMON: And probably -- it probably seemed like forever before they -- before they could get that going.

I've got to ask you real quick before I let you go. You talked about that personal moment when you saw the women rushing to put the water out. Anything else on the scene that you noticed personally? Especially looking at these pictures, it looks horrific, Mick. Are you surprised that anyone survived this?

DAVY: I think possibly the most horrific thing was that this airplane crashed in a very busy market area. We know that somewhere between 75 and 79 people were killed. We're not sure how many of those people were on the airplane versus on the ground when the plane crashed.

What I did see was only the nose cone -- only the nose cone of the airplane and the tail piece of the airplane were intact.

LEMON: Wow, all right. Mick Davy is a journalist there and arrived at the scene shortly after this happened.

And just to recap real quickly, so you know what we're talking about here -- Mick, thank you very much for that. At least 75 people, we are told, 75 passengers and crew members were onboard the plane at the time and believed to have died. Fifteen survivors including the plane's pilot and co-pilot.

This was a DC-9, and it went down just after take-off from the city of Goma. It was heading to the central city of Kisingani, which is in Ghonda (ph). Kisingani, Ghonda (ph). And so that's where the plane was going.

It crashed in a densely-populated neighborhood near the runway there. Engine failure, they believe, is to blame. And as you heard the journalist there saying, it took a while for rescuers to arrive on the scene, and they saw women there trying to help out with buckets of water, pouring buckets of water on the flames to try to help in this.

We will keep you updated on this horrific situation coming out of the Congo.

The women of the polygamist FLDS. You rarely ever hear them say anything, but they're talking now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHLEEN, FLDS MEMBER: In a country that professes to be free, in the land of the free and the home of the brave, and we have been persecuted for our religion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A rare look inside their world and inside their heads as they demand their children back.

And then later on, Herschel Walker, remember him? No. 34. You knew him as a powerful and explosive running-back who always, always broke free, but there was one obstacle he couldn't shake or plow over, and that was mental illness.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, take a look. This is something you won't see every day, the inside -- the inside of a polygamist compound. Outsiders hardly ever get this close. But CNN got a rare look inside last night as some of the Mormon sect, the women, returned to the YFZ Ranch in western Texas.

And one of the reasons they're opening up a little bit is because they want their children back. Kids older than 5 are still with the state, separated from their mothers. One angry mother of five -- her name is Kathleen -- she talked with our Anderson Cooper last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHLEEN: I want you to understand that we have been put in a compound, the Concho Forts over there, brick walls, 170 women and children in a building that was 100 feet by 40 feet with two bathrooms. OK? Do you understand that?

So we need the public to know that an injustice has been done against us. In the land of the free and the home of the brave, we are being treated like the Jews were when they were escorted to the German Nazi camps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, Kathleen and the other mothers say the state took their kids based on a tip that didn't even come from within the group. You remember a 16-year-old girl got the raid rolling when she called a domestic violence hotline to report abuses inside that compound, but so far that girl has not been found. She hasn't turned up.

So let's go to CNN's Sean Callebs. He joins us now from San Angelo.

And Sean, you can hear from these women, these mothers, they definitely feel that they have been wronged.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, I was -- I went into the compound last night and talked with people for several hours. And in talking with members of the FLDS, to a person, they all believe this alleged 16-year-old doesn't exist. In their words, a ghost, a phantom. Something that the state cooked up to rationalize the raid on what they call a very peaceful, self-sufficient area.

But let's look at the timing of when members of the FLDS let the media inside to take a look around. Coming up on Thursday, very important court hearing here in San Angelo. It will go a long way toward determining whether those 416 children are possibly returned to their parents or end up as a ward of the state, go to foster homes.

Now, the members of the sect say, look, the charges against them are simply fabricated. But without question, they're very serious abuse charges. Listen to what one had to say to me last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: The state is making very strong allegations that there were underage girls having sex with much older men and young women, 14, 15, 16 as parents. Did you see any of that out here?

ANNETTE, FLDS MEMBER: There is no force here. Everyone has their choice to do exactly what they would like. There is no force.

And we want the children, and they want us. They are clean and pure. And this is the worst thing that has happened to them. They are learning terrible things just from the questions that are being asked. Things that they have never been spoke to. They have been so protected here. So protected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: OK. A couple of other significant events, as well. Behind me you see the pavilion here in San Angelo. This is where many of the 416 children were taken. Also, mothers with children under the age of 5 were allowed to accompany them. Now, for mothers who had children over 5, they were allowed to go back to the ranch or they were allowed to be taken to a safe house.

Now, when we were at the site last night, the FLDS members told us all the women went back to the ranch. Well, today Child Protective Services says that is not the case. There are six women who are now at a safe house.

Meanwhile, we know that also all the boys were taken to a boys' ranch in a bus not terribly far from here. You can see some of the pictures, hopefully, of a bus going down the road. And so now they have separated the children, taken them to two different locations, Don.

And all this ahead of Thursday's hearing. This is just becoming a very unwieldy process and is certainly going to be the most complex child protective custody issue in the U.S.

LEMON: CNN's Sean Callebs. And Sean, you know, just while you were there, just got an alert from Texas, saying that there's going to be a press conference, 2 p.m. your time, Central; 3 p.m. Eastern at the usual spot, usual place. Where -- where is that place?

CALLEBS: Yes. It's the Child Protective Services news conference. It's going to be held at an art museum that's not terribly far from here. We've seen that play out several times before.

It's interesting, because last week members of CPS told us, "Look, what we're hearing from the children and mothers is nothing but compliments. They're telling us how appreciative they are."

But when we talked to those people last night, they said that is anything but true. They said the children were getting sick. They said the food was simply lousy and, as you heard, they had only two rest rooms for more than 500 people. So it will be interesting to hear what they have to say about those allegations, coming up later this afternoon.

LEMON: Yes. Sean Callebs, live in San Angelo, Texas. Sean, thanks for explaining where it is and what we might hear. And again, CNN will carry that for you live, 3 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Central, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Thanks again to you, Sean.

Growing populations and a demand for new energy sources. Two reasons for soaring food prices around the world. A look at who's suffering straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

LEMON: Let's talk about the airline industry as we know it. Well, it could be forever changing. Delta and Northwest are planning to join forces. It is a deal that would span the world's biggest carrier, and it could, it could set the stage for other cash-strapped airlines to merge as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG STEENLAND, CEO, NORTHWEST AIRLINES: The focus of the industry has really been on survival. We just saw five airlines either liquidate or file for chapter 11 within the course of the last several weeks. And the goal here is to create a stronger foundation and a more secure business so that the airline is better able to invest in product enhancements, better able to invest in employee training, all of which will translate onto a better customer experience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, there are some things that have to happen first. The deal has to be OK'd by government regulators. If it takes off, here's how it breaks down. The new airline would operate under the Delta name and would be based in Atlanta. No hub closings, no hub closings are planned. The new carrier would serve more than 390 destinations in 67 countries. Administrative job cuts are likely, but for now, no job cuts are planned for non-office staffers like flight attendants, baggage handlers and others who deal directly with the public.

And just a minute ago you heard from the Northwest CEO, who says the merger would make for a better customer experience, but that doesn't mean a cheaper customer experience.

Now as you can see from this map of Northwest and Delta's U.S. hubs, the deal would affect cities and fliers around the nation.

CNN's Rusty Dornin has been talking to passengers at Hartsfield- Jackson Airport -- International Airport, I should say, don't want to leave that out, right here in Atlanta. And, Rusty, how are they feeling about it? Are they happy? Are they concerned about higher prices, poorer service?

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think higher prices. People are sort of giving up on that, because they realize that fuel prices are driving this. Some think that perhaps the consolidation of routes, you know, the same routes that Northwest and Delta fly, of course they will be canceling some of those, and that might drive up the fares a little bit.

Some of the Northwest passengers we spoke to, they're very happy. That means if they live in Minneapolis, they can go on one airline when they want to fly anywhere. And of course Northwest has a large global footprint. They have 200 flights to Asia from the United States. But some of the Northwest passengers are concerned about those everyday things, like all those frequent-flier miles that they've earned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PASSENGER: Credit card is Northwest and I get -- all my money goes on (INAUDIBLE) miles, so I don't how that's going to be effected either.

UNIDENTIFIED PASSENGER: I think it's great. I think with, you know, both airlines coming together and -- I think there won't be many changes when I read in here.

UNIDENTIFIED PASSENGER: I think there's going to be more connections. And I think as a Delta flyer, I don't think it's going to affect me that much.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DORNIN: Overall the Delta fliers, I think, are a little more positive about how this could all work out. Of course, the question is, is the bigger airline going to be more efficient and would that save money, that sort of thing. But they are still a little bit on the sidelines here as to how it will work out, because by the time the government regulators get to it and by the time the unions haggle out all that, it could be a very different merger proposition in the very end -- Don.

LEMON: Rusty, it must be nice to be at the airport and actually not have to jump on a plane to follow some breaking news somewhere.

OK, Rusty Dornin joining us at Hartsfield International Airport. Thanks, Rusty.

PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, Benedict XVI Is about to begin his first papal visit to America. What can he expect from his American flock, and what can the flock expect from him. We're going to hear from two Catholic journalists who know both sides of the fence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, not only is tomorrow Pope Benedict's 81st birthday, Saturday is the third anniversary of his ascension to the Throne Of peter. Three whole years since the former Cardinal Ratzinger succeeded Pope John Paul II. But he's still pretty much a question mark to millions of American Catholics. Does he have any greater insights about them?

I'm joined here in Washington by Raymond Arroyo of Catholic TV Network, EWTN,and David Gibson, formerly with Vatican Radio and a biographer of Benedict XVI.

You know, the three of us are sitting here stalking. Why hasn't he broken through, Ray, yet?

RAYMOND ARROYO, ETERNAL WORD TELEVISION NETWORK: We were just talking about this a moment ago. This is a man of concept, of ideas. He is a philosopher at heart and a professor at heart. He communicates through words.

Now the words have broken through, Kyra. I mean, the dictatorship of relativism. The weekend he was elected pope, the Regensburg Address certainly was a bombshell across the world and has ignited an amazing Catholic-Muslim dialogue that no one thought imaginable. So, the words breakthrough.

With John Paul, it was all about gestures. And I think being in this media culture, our culture's more atuned to gestures. You know, we're like the people looking at the stained glass, you know the images, but the words allude us.

I think people will pay attention to what this pope says and the words will have a force and a power. And I imagine they will be a bit provocative around the edges. PHILLIPS: Interesting, and Debue (ph) and I were talking -- I mean, John Paul, everybody loved him. He was sort of your grandfather, your father, your best friend. And this is a pope that has been described as the "Catholic rottweiler." And you said he's definitely not a Catholic "American Idol." Everyone's going to be (ph) ...

DAVID GIBSON, CATHOLIC JOURNALIST, AUTHOR: No, he's not. I mean, he's not coming over here for a popularity contest. You know, even though we're in the finals of "American Idol," it's, you know, people will be tuning into the pope for something else, I think is what Ray said.

But also, you know, the reason he's not known is because John Paul's was a pontificate of presence very much. John Paul came to the United States within a year of his election. This is three years now since Benedict was elected. John Paul came and he went to seven cities in seven days and gave 65 speeches. Benedict is an older man coming to two cities just on the East Coast, Washington and New York, give about a dozen speeches total.

So, people have not known him because they really haven't seen him. It's also not just his age. He was 78 when he was elected. John Paul was 58. But it's also his principle. He wants to lower a bit the -- someone say cultive (ph) personality, the focus on the person of the pope. He wants to step aside and let the Gospel and what he says shine through. But will it work?

PHILLIPS: And what will he say? I mean, I can tell you everybody sitting back wanted to hear about sex scandal. They want to hear what he's going to say.

ARROYO: Yes, and you'll (ph) hear about that.

PHILLIPS: Will he talk about it?

ARROYO: Well, he's already talked about it on the plane over.

PHILLIPS: That's right, with John Allen.

ARROYO: In fact, just a few hours ago.

PHILLIPS: He came right out and asked him about it.

ARROYO: Yes, exactly. So, you know, he's already speaking about it. I think we'll hear more about that. But look, he's going to say we've answered this, our hearts are broken. We're moving beyond this. That's part of what this visit will accomplish.

The other part of this is this is a man of faith and reason. He's trying to reunite those two concepts, not only to say we can't use religion to incite violence or encourage it, but we also have to be mindful of making a clear, reasoned argument for faith. That's what he'll be doing at the United Nations when he meets with these other faiths and when he meets with his Catholic people.

PHILLIPS: You know what else he's talked a lot about, which has been sort of interesting to me, the environment.

ARROYO: Yes.

PHILLIPS: I mean, this -- now, come on, this is a pope that wears Prada shoes, not Birkenstocks, OK? And he has been out there talking a lot about the environment -- why?

GIBSON: And he wears white and not green, but he's very green -- he's green at the core very much. I think that's something that's always been a sort of a subtle thread through his writings, even when he was a cardinal. When he was elected, one of the groups, the advocacy groups that was most happy about it was PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals because he's talked about animal rights and treating animals humanely.

It's -- this is something, again, he really didn't have to deal with when he was the doctrinal watchdog, as they say. It's something he's been able to develop while he's been pope. And I hope and I think it'll -- he'll develop that a bit, especially when he's at the United Nations. I think it's something that people, especially outside the church and within the church will pick up on and maybe they'll connect with.

ARROYO: And he'll connect the dots on this green thing. You know, I've been talking to a lot of journalists and people at the Vatican about Part of -- two guys at the Vatican, very high ranking, tell me look beyond the issue itself. Because it's very sexy in the media, he's a green pope, he's got the solar panels on the top of the old buildings. It's fantastic, yes!

He's making a natural law argument here which is this. If we have a compulsion of faith to care for the environment and protect it, we also have a compulsion to care for the infirm, the elderly, human rights, the unborn. He's going to make a holistic argument to the world at the U.N. And that -- the environmental one is key to that. That's kind of the vanguard of this argument. So, watch for him to connect the dots and teach the world this week.

PHILLIPS: Why is the White House pulling out all the stops for this trip? I mean, Queen Elizabeth had about 7,000 visitors. I think the tickets that are being sold, it's already up to about 11,000 right now of visitors that want to come see the pope.

GIBSON: Who doesn't want to get their picture taken with the pope including the president? I mean, I think the ...

PHILLIPS: To be blessed by the pope.

GIBSON: ...the pope probably has better favorability ratings than the president at this point. And it's really -- it's something. The interesting thing about this, is this is only, I think, the second time the pope has been at a White House.

The United States did not have diplomatic relations with the Vatican until 1984, until President Reagan came in. So, all the first visits of popes to the United States from Paul VI in 1965 to John Paul I in 1979, the president could not meet, could not greet the pope when he came because they didn't have official relations.

PHILLIPS: And he's going out on the tarmac, which has never happened before.

ARROYO: Oh yes, unprecedented in this presidency. It's happened before. Reagan went and met the pope as did Bill Clinton when he came in '99.

PHILLIPS: Oh, OK.

ARROYO: But, this is the first time George Bush has ever done this.

PHILLIPS: OK, yes.

ARROYO: And I asked him about this in an interview last week. And he said this is a world leader, this is someone that every one of my citizens are going to be hanging on his every word. It's important that we go and do this because he delineates for the world the difference between right and wrong. And that's his rationale.

PHILLIPS: Well, I remember the president said to you, too, when you asked him what do you see when you look in the pope's eyes and he just said God and that was it.

Dave Gibson, thanks so much. Ray Arroyo, great talking to you guys. We'll be talking more this week. OK, great.

ARROYO: Thank you. Good to see you.

PHILLIPS: We're going to follow the pontiff throughout the week, of course. And you might want to mark this down. We're going to bring you live coverage of the Papal Mass at Yankee Stadium -- how's that, mass at Yankee Stadium. That's Sunday 2:00 p.m. Eastern.

LEMON: That should be very interesting, Kyra, mass at Yankee Stadium. And of course, we will all be tuned into that. Special coverage all day long here on CNN.

We have some developing news we want to tell you about. Remember we told you about Chicago and the blue line? There were some problems this morning, it had to be evacuated.

Here's the new information we're getting. We're told that it was up and running. And here's exactly what we're told happened here. Apparently, the CTA in Chicago was working on a train, a train that had some mechanical problems. Not sure if people were on that train that had the mechanical problems at the time.

But as they were working on that train, another train was approaching and in order to stop the one train from colliding with the other, they cut the power. And when they cut the power, we're told by our correspondent on the ground there, when they cut the power, people started to panic a little bit and get off the trains. They tried to make an announcement to tell people to stay put, but they didn't. So then, they sent the fire department in. They cut the power fully so that people wouldn't electrocute themselves and then, they started opening the hatchets. Some of the people opened the hatches themselves. The fire department opened the hatches.

In all, seven passengers taken to local hospitals. All the injuries are believed to be stress-related: anxiety, shortness of breath, anything like that.

But again, we're told it was a measure to keep two trains from colliding -- one train I should say from colliding with another one train that was mechanically immobile. And it was all done by the CTA. So, everything back up and running in Chicago as it comes to the train service there on the blue line. If we get new information on this, we'll let you know.

He spent years, years in the public eye trapped in a secret struggle. A former Heisman trophy winner and retired NFL player opens up about his mental illness.

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LEMON: Well, Herschel Walker became a household name playing college and then pro football. But along with his helmet, he was wearing a mask to hide a puzzling, personal struggle. Walker has just released a book called "Breaking Free." In it he opens up about his mental illness dissociative identity disorder once known as multiple personality disorder. Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta sat down with Herschel Walker.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it was surprising that he wrote the book, and he has been so public about this. In part because it is a confusing disorder. You think about multiple personality disorder, a lot of people simply don't understand it. Also, I think any time anyone famous sort of comes out and talks about mental illness so publicly, it's jarring for people, as well.

What was most stunning, I think, to most people that read the book and for me when I sat down with him is what DID, dissociative identity disorder caused him to do. Take a listen.

HERSCHEL WALKER, FORMER NFL RUNNING BACK: I tried to hurt myself many times. I've tried suicide. I would ask my doctor, why would I do something like this? He said, Herschel, you are so competitive. You have a drive. I don't know what you call it, but I would try anything. I would try more than anything.

GUPTA: Did you try to take pills?

WALKER: No. I played Russian Roulette before.

GUPTA: You played Russian Roulette?

WALKER: Yes, I played Russian Roulette before, and more than once. I played more than once.

GUPTA: As you listen to that I mean, he's obviously a very likable, very charming guy. The words -- what he is saying is really remarkable. Keep in mind, one of the cardinal symptoms of DID is that there is no recollection as a person flips from one alter personality to the next. The people that are closest to him often can describe it best. Here is his wife Cindy.

CINDY GROSSMAN, WALKER'S EX-WIFE: I remember being in bed. I didn't have my contacts on because I remember I couldn't see. He got upset and you know those barber knots? He had it to my throat and kept saying he was going to kill me, kill me. I think he choked me, because I think I passed out. When I came to, there was somebody else there. Cindy, Cindy, Cindy, wake up, wake up. It must have scared him, and he switched.

It's remarkable to hear what Cindy had to say there. You think about DID specifically, keep in mind it's easier to think about everyone around us sort of having multiple personalities. We all act different ways in different aspects of our lives. With DID, it's more reflection of not having a single cohesive personality.

You have all these alters, and together they don't make up a single cohesive personality. Herschel Walker says he was abused physically and psychologically as a child. He was an overweight child. He stuttered a lot. That got a lot of taunting for him, and he said he developed those alters as a result of that, at least that's what his doctors say.

They also say, and this is important, that while they did him a lot of harm, led to the end of his marriage, led to a lot of violence, they also did him some good as well overall in his professional life. He is getting treated now, very difficult to treat, but he is taking treatment from his doctors. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: You can catch Dr. Sanjay Gupta's full report ON Herschel Walker and dissociative identity disorder -- that's tonight on AC 360. That's at 10 PM Eastern. Of course, only here on CNN.

The raid on the polygamist compound in Texas began with a phone call supposedly from a 16-year-old girl, but why can't anyone find her? The search is taking authorities hundreds of miles away from El Dorado.

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LEMON: All right, a busy day here in the CNN NEWSROOM here's what we're working on for you. A transit mess in Chicago is now cleared up. A major train route was shut down today between downtown and O'Hare Airport. Up to 100 people had to evacuate a subway after a train stalled, but the rail line is now up and running again.

Mothers of children taken by the bus load from that polygamist ranch in Texas -- they are speaking out. One of them tells CNN they feel persecuted and they want their kids back. The children are now in state custody.

At least 75 people are confirmed dead after a DC-9 passenger plane crashed in Congo. The plane plunged into a neighborhood shortly after taking off. Officials blame engine failure.

Are you nervous, sweating, feeling your money drifting away? Well, you must be doing your taxes, and you have just hours to go before the filing deadline. We'll introduce you to some perennial procrastinators.

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