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Glenn Beck

Dems Kept on Defensive During Debate; Is Bill Sabotaging Hillary`s Chances?; Thriller Addresses Issue of Internet Privacy for Children

Aired April 17, 2008 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Hillary goes after Barack on issues from his pastor to his lapel.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She`s said I`m elitist, out of touch, condescending.

SMERCONISH: But was she tough enough to move back on top?

Plus, everyone`s talking about the presidential campaign, but who will get tapped for the VP slot? We`ll talk to two of the leading candidates: former governor Tom Ridge and Ed Rendell, the current governor, both of Pennsylvania.

And where in the world is Osama bin Laden? We`ll ask Morgan Spurlock, who has a new documentary of the same name.

All this and more, tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SMERCONISH: Hello, America. I`m Michael Smerconish, in this week for the vacationing Glenn Beck.

Last night, we all got to watch a prize fight for my hometown of Philadelphia. This was the final debate before next week`s Pennsylvania primary. Yes, there were some punches thrown to be sure. But some observers are saying tonight that they landed under the belt. And that they came from the questioners and not the candidates.

In other words, whereas there`s always a debate the following day as to the performance of the candidates, tonight, there`s controversy as to the subject matter that was raised.

Senator Obama spent at least half of the debate on the defensive from issues such as the Reverend Wright and the flag pin, and his "bitter" comment. Not until much later was there any discussion of the economy or gas prices.

Senator Clinton was again asked about Bosnia, and both were asked about association with `60s radicals. While you can certainly say that those aren`t the most pressing problems of the nation, the reality is that the discussion as to whether he`s wearing a flag pin or she was really under sniper fire probably kept more eyes on television than the debate over the budget deficit.

The presidential race is now in large part reality show. At least that`s my view.

Joining me now to talk us through the fist-fight in Philly and more, Carrie Budoff Brown, a reporter for the Politico, and Michael Gerson, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and the author of "Heroic Conservatism."

Carrie, again, your coverage is leading the Politico: "Obama Kept on Defensive During Debate." And I agree with your characterization of what went down. Here`s my question. Was he on the defensive on legitimate issues?

CARRIE BUDOFF BROWN, REPORTER, THE POLITICO: Yes, I -- well, you know, legitimate, I mean, I think they reflected -- the questions last night reflected what has happened in the campaign over the last six weeks to eight weeks, which was when the candidates last debated.

The moderators would have been remiss if they did not ask him about Reverend Wright, about his comments, if they did not ask Hillary Clinton about Bosnia. I mean, this is -- this is what has been the discussion. And, moderators can`t win in these debates. If they`re too hard on Clinton, they get mocked. If they`re too hard on Obama, I`m seeing the same sentiments in my inbox today.

You know, running for president is a, you know, a -- you know, it`s a full spectrum vetting process. Policy and politics, and maybe they could have weighted it a little bit differently.

SMERCONISH: You referenced Will Bunch. And I`m going to put something up on the screen. Will Bunch is a "Philadelphia Daily News" reporter and a blogger. Adding to his blog site. Look what he said. He`s commenting now to Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos. It`s an open letter: "With your performance tonight, so badly botching arguably the most critical debate of such an important election, in a time of both war and economic misery, you disgraced the American voters, and in fact even disgraced democracy itself."

Michael, is that a fair shot to take at the moderators of last night`s debate? Or, where they simply giving viewer what they most want to watch?

MICHAEL GERSON, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, actually, I think it`s absurd hyperventilation. This is what journalists are supposed to do. Gibson and Stephanopoulos are some of the best in the business.

A presidential campaign -- I was involved in three of them -- is a test to see if you can take the pressure at key moments. And Obama`s performance in reaction to that was mixed. It gave Republicans -- I mean, Democrats in particular, reason to think, "Maybe I should have buyer`s remorse here."

He was bad on the scandal questions, which his answers just haven`t gotten much better over time. But he was also bad on the policy questions, on you know, his tax policy, which was incoherent. His gun views, which were proved in the next day`s coverage to be, you know, not representing his true position. And his Iraq view, which is deeply irresponsible, which is retreat no matter what.

SMERCONISH: I have a confession for the two of you. I sat in front of the television screen last night with my laptop, and I was tracking things that interested me, sending an e-mail to my producer as to what sound I wanted to play on the radio, meaning this morning.

And Carrie, the very things that I said I wanted to play on the radio are all the things that the blogging community, Will Bunch, as a great example, thought were a total waste of time.

And, I guess my defense would be, I want to give people what I think they most want to hear. I think people are more interested, unfortunately, perhaps, in the flag pin, in Reverend Wright, in Bosnia than they are the budget deficit. I don`t know that I could sustain a radio show playing clips about the budget deficit.

BROWN: I have a very vivid memory of a debate back in Iowa in December, when it was entirely on policy, and people complained about falling asleep. Low viewership.

I mean, you`re right. You -- you provide material that you think people want to, you know, listen to. And I think if you`re -- if you`re looking at some of the blowback, I mean, it`s from some Obama supporters. I don`t know about Will Bunch. I`m not saying that he is.

But at least in my inbox, the folks who are upset are folks who don`t want Clinton as a president. They don`t like the defense that Obama was put in, the defensive posture that Obama was put in.

SMERCONISH: Michael -- Michael, you`ve got some credentials, a lot of credentials, relative to speech-writing and speech-making and so forth. To me, they both seemed restrained. They both seemed, frankly, a bit washed out and tired. I felt myself feeling sympathetic toward each of them for going through this meat grinder for so long.

How did they appear to you?

GERSON: Well, I agree with that. I think they were restrained. I don`t think they wanted to seem like they had an edge, even when they were saying some fairly harsh things. I think that in some ways that`s succeeded. Neither of them seemed angry which I think would have been a mistake, particularly on Hillary Clinton`s part.

But this setting is not Obama`s best setting. I`ve been to a couple of these debates. He has a kind of professorial style. He doesn`t have, kind of, you know, a vivid presence in these debates. And that`s been true of a lot of them. He`s a fine orator, but he`s not a great debater.

SMERCONISH: Carrie, there`s a fellow that I often has -- have as a guest on my radio show. And you`ve quoted him on the Politico. I guess because we both think he`s smart, relative to Pennsylvania politics. His name`s Larry Slicer (ph).

And he said to me today, relative to Obama, that Obama, using a sports analogy, looked like a guy who just wanted to run out the clock. And that made great sense to me. But it only makes sense to me if he thinks he`s going to win it, and he just wants to do no harm. Does that make sense to you, as a characterization of what you saw last night?

BROWN: It does make sense. He went into that debate, having to know -- having to know what the questions were going to be. And in some ways, he -- I thought he gave some of the least convincing responses to those hot button, you know, topics, that I`ve seen in the last few days.

And he did look, you know, tense. He looked annoyed at having to answer these questions. He expressed it several times. You know, we don`t want to get obsessed about these gaffes, these errors. Yes, I think in a sense, he just -- he kind of wants this over with. And it did show a bit last night.

SMERCONISH: Michael, Carrie brings up the whole `60s radical associations, allegedly and so forth. Is that fair game for a debate like last night?

GERSON: Well, I think people`s past associations are fair game. But the problem with each of these scandals, the recent ones that Obama has had, is that they add up to something. They add up to a kind of liberal elitism.

So the sum total is actually worse than the individual ones. I thought the most difficult one for him to explain, and he didn`t explain it very well, is actually the flag pin. I`m not sure that America will elect a president who refuses to wear a flag on his lapel.

SMERCONISH: I acknowledge it`s unusual. But it`s also the stuff of urban legend via the Internet. I mean, there`s a bogus photo circulating, bogus in the sense that it alleges there`s a pledge going on when, in fact, the national anthem is being sung. I mean, I put my hand over my heart for the pledge. But the national anthem at a Phillies game, I`m not covering my chest.

GERSON: Oh, yes.

SMERCONISH: That`s just my two cents. Anyway, great guests, great input. Carrie and Michael, many thanks.

BROWN: Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Coming up, can Hillary Clinton win big enough in Pennsylvania to keep her campaign going? My next guest says no, and I`ll tell you why he`s blaming it all on Bill.

And, where in the world is Osama bin Laden? Aside from being America`s greatest unanswered question, it`s also the title of Morgan Spurlock`s latest film, the Academy-Award-winning director -- the Academy- Award-nominated director. He`ll get that award sooner or later. He`ll be here in a moment.

Also a reminder: tonight`s show, brought to you by the Sleep Number Bed. Sleep Number, it`s the bed that counts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: Coming up, who wants to be vice president? There are two very viable candidates from my home state of Pennsylvania. For the Democrats, current Governor Ed Rendell, and for the GOP, former Governor, Tom Ridge. I`m going to talk to both of them about their chances in just a moment.

But first, with only four more days until the Pennsylvania primary, Senator Clinton is maintaining a six-percentage-point edge over Senator Barack Obama. But will last night`s debate change any minds and tip the scales in Obama`s favor?

Here with me now, Terry Madonna, director of the Center for Politics and Public Affairs at Franklin and Marshall College. He`s director of the Franklin and Marshall College Poll. He`s also a Pennsylvania political guru.

Terry, the debate draw any blood last night, or do you think this is where it`s going to stay?

TERRY MADONNA, FRANKLIN AND MARSHALL COLLEGE: I think that`s where it`s going to stay. I mean, I don`t think that debate last evening swung a single voter in either direction. It was pretty ho-hum: no great moments, no revelations, no big headline.

Obama in the first 45 minutes or so was put on the defense more than Senator Clinton. And then when it got back into the policy, they debated some differences over tax policies, but Michael, this was not a debate that swayed a single voter.

SMERCONISH: And this six-point margin, that`s your number. You were out in the field. You came back, obviously, before the debate. You going back in the field again?

MADONNA: No, I don`t think so.

SMERCONISH: So, that`s it, six points?

MADONNA: Yes, but other polls that have been concurrent with ours pretty much confirmed it. We now have three polls: five points, six points, six points. That`s pretty much where it is.

And Michael, there`s about 15 percent of the voters, I would say, who still could make a difference. These are the undecided voters, and some voters who still might change their mind.

SMERCONISH: See, I can`t believe -- I don`t believe anybody`s undecided. I`ve said this to you before. When it`s -- when her name is on the line, for better or worse...

MADONNA: I know.

SMERCONISH: ... there`s nobody undecided.

MADONNA: Yes, but then you have to explain why, in some of these races, the turnout has exceeded the projections. It could be great turnout operations, but it`s also tremendous enthusiasm.

And I do think -- and I know you won`t believe this -- I do think there are some Democratic voters who say, "Well, Hillary; OK, Barack." In other worlds, both of them still are very favorably viewed by Democratic voters, and I think there are Democrats who are still sort of caught between the two of them.

SMERCONISH: I`ve always said that there are a lot of people out there who want to be on a winning side, and they wait for a guy like Terry Madonna, you know, going into the final weekend. And when you say, well, here`s who`s up.

Here`s the question I want to ask you, to use the worlds of Bush 41. Who`s got the big mo? Where does the momentum lie as we head soon into this final weekend?

MADONNA: Yes, I tell what you: I think it`s absolutely flat. I think that Senator Clinton had it earlier. Obama came on in the last two weeks. And what`s happened is, this race has stabilized.

This is going to be a battle, Michael, of turnout by regions. In some ways, it`s an interesting fight battle. Because it`s the more liberal southeast, sort of the bluing of the state, versus the more conservative red -- red-minded...

SMERCONISH: I agree with that. Bottom line, anybody can win it, right Terry? That`s where you are. It`s up in the air.

MADONNA: No, no, no. I think Senator Clinton will win: six, seven, eight points, something in that range. We could have an upset, but I still think the dynamics of this race more favor Senator Clinton than they do Senator Obama.

SMERCONISH: OK. Terry Madonna, thank you. Appreciate it.

Now, one of the big questions this campaign is whether Bill Clinton helps or hurts Hillary in her quest for the White House. My next guest says Bill Clinton is hurting her campaign. But wait until you hear his theory.

Mark Howard is a veteran Philadelphia broadcaster. This guy has been around the track. He knows politics in Pennsylvania like no one else. For years, this was reversed. He was asking me the questions, but he knew the answers.

Are you prepared on national television to tell everybody what you said on the radio show today in terms of whether Bill Clinton helps or hurts and why?

MARK HOWARD, RETIRED PHILADELPHIA NEWS ANCHOR: Well, I`ll tell you the truth, Michael. When it was the day before the South Carolina primary, and Bill Clinton, somebody stuck a mike in his face, and he said, "Well, you know, Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice." And you know, on and on.

And I thought, "Wait a minute. He just compared Barack Obama to Jesse Jackson." He`s trying to hurt his wife.

SMERCONISH: He misspoke.

HOWARD: Well -- that`s -- that`s premised on the fact that this -- that he misspoke. The guy is the smartest politician in the United States. I don`t think he made a mistake.

SMERCONISH: So what are you saying?

HOWARD: I think -- well, here`s what I think. I think that going in, Bill Clinton, for a couple of reasons that I could outline, doesn`t really want his wife to become the president of the United States.

Now, he has to work for her, which he`s been doing, and he has to speak on her behalf. But he`s made some mistakes which are so bad, and so unexplainable, that you have to figure, he really doesn`t want her to win. For example...

SMERCONISH: I`m going to give you the chance. I want to hear this. But you think he is -- just so people appreciate it. You say he is deliberately throwing the race? He does not want to go back to the White House as the first man or whatever the job title would be.

HOWARD: OK, three things he did. You tell me why he did them.

SMERCONISH: All right.

HOWARD: First of all, his friend, who just got fired, and he, worked on the campaign and really got it going and set it up. They had one target: win on Super Tuesday, the big day. They had no Plan B if he didn`t -- if she didn`t win it all on Super Tuesday. They weren`t ready to go out into the countryside and do all of those little town meetings, and try to get those delegates that he got.

SMERCONISH: All right.

HOWARD: Why didn`t they have a Plan B? Mark Penn and he, I think, figured she`s got her shot on Super Tuesday. And if she doesn`t make it, she`s done.

SMERCONISH: Second?

HOWARD: No. 2. She was running 60, 70, 80 percent of the black vote until he made that crack comparing Obama to Jesse Jackson, and she plummeted like a rock. He went up as high as 85, 90 percent of the black vote.

And the third thing was, the Bosnia story last week. He announces on television -- he tells reporters that she made a speech at 11 p.m. at night. First, he insults all the older people. My wife agreed with this one. She said, "Wait a minute. He said, `If you`re 60, you know, you get tired at 11 p.m. at night.` And her base is 60-plus women. He insulted them all."

Then he talked about the Bosnia thing, had it all wrong. Said that, you know, she made a mistake, she misspoke. One time. She did it three times. They showed it on the network TV. She did it three times and didn`t apologize till a week later.

SMERCONISH: So what you`re saying, Mark Howard, is he is so darn politically smart. You know, you can quarrel about his issues and so forth, but intellectually, on a political level, there`s nobody better. And I agree with that.

HOWARD: He`s too smart to have made those mistakes.

SMERCONISH: He`s too smart to have made these -- so therefore he`s -- why though? Play Freud. Why would he deliberately throw the race?

HOWARD: Well, you`ve got to understand, I did -- I`ve done news for 54 years. Now I`m retired. So, now I can tell you, the accumulated cynicism of 54 years.

First of all, standard political stuff. Politicians, they don`t like to lose. They like to win. There`s competition among all politicians. If she becomes the next president, consider this. In the next four to eight years there could very well be peace in the Middle East: Palestinians, Israelis. Iraq is liable to emerge as a genuine country. We already know that democracy is moving into Jordan.

So, good stuff could happen in the Middle East, and she would get the praise for all of that.

SMERCONISH: In other words, it would eclipse -- it would eclipse his legacy?

HOWARD: Big time. No. 2...

SMERCONISH: Hurry up. I`ve got a time constraint. You know what that`s like.

HOWARD: OK, there are two other real short ones. One is he has his big fundraising thing he does with his charity. Raises millions. Can he go to a big corporation and say, "Give me $100 million" while she`s president? No, because if they get anything in terms of a government contract, it will look like a swindle.

And No. 3, here`s the punch line.

SMERCONISH: Oh, man.

HOWARD: If he gets in trouble with a woman while Hillary is the president, she`ll throw him out and divorce him on national TV so fast, your head would spin.

SMERCONISH: I miss you.

HOWARD: That wouldn`t be good.

SMERCONISH: You`re the best. Mark, I don`t know if I believe it, but man do I find it intriguing. Thank you, Mark Howard.

Coming up, how much privacy should a child have on the Internet? It`s a question every parent will be asking themselves after reading "Hold Tight." It`s a new thriller by best-selling author Harlan Coben. And he joins me next.

PLUS, I`m going to talk to two possible candidates for vice president: current Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell; former governor, Tom Ridge. Both right here to discuss that possibility.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: The question of how much privacy a child should have on the Internet is one that`s on every parent`s mind. After a case of cyber bullying caused a 13-year-old girl to commit suicide last November, the question`s relevance became even more serious.

A new thriller explores this very topic through the story of five families whose lives collide in surprising and tragic ways. Harlan Coben is an international best-seller and now author of "Hold Tight."

Holy smokes. Look at you now: full-page treatment in "The New York Times."

HARLAN COBEN, AUTHOR, "HOLD TIGHT": Nice, huh? Yes, great.

SMERCONISH: I`ve got three young sons.

COBEN: Yes.

SMERCONISH: Should I be spying on them?

COBEN: Well, you`ve got to -- you have to at least open the door to it. I mean, first of all, we should know that nothing on the Internet is private. Let`s start right there. The idea that the Internet is private, that it`s the same thing as writing it down in a diary and putting it under your mattress, is a fallacy, at best. Because anything you put on the Internet, everyone is going to see. Future spouses, future teachers, future employers. So start with that.

But the kids should think, at least, that somebody is watching them, because chances are, they are.

SMERCONISH: You know, in my family, we all play Guitar Hero and Rock Band.

COBEN: Right.

SMERCONISH: And I came home one day recently, and they were playing Rock Band with kids from around the globe. At least I hope they were kids.

COBEN: Right.

SMERCONISH: And I guess therein lies the danger. It could be some dirt bag from halfway around the globe.

COBEN: This is the thing. You know, we`re all a little bit, overindulgent parents. We want to write our kid`s essays. We don`t let them cross the street without watching them. We berate coaches about playing time.

Yet, it comes -- when it comes to this box in the middle of our house, they can show beheadings, bestiality. And you talk to pedophiles, whatever. All of a sudden, it`s hands off, right to privacy. I don`t think a parent can just surrender that right. I mean, it`s just -- it`s too gray an area to just give that away.

SMERCONISH: You know, Harlan, when I grew up, we used to build forts in the local woods, and we would stash "Playboys" there.

COBEN: Right.

SMERCONISH: And I want them to build forts and stash "Playboys" there. But it`s a whole different environment. Today, it`s like a porno environment; it`s not a "Playboy" environment. And I know that some people at home are saying, "What, are you crazy? It`s all the same." But it`s not.

You know what I`m trying to say?

COBEN: The problem is, this is where it gets gray. And being a parent has never been an easy job. Parenting is not for the faint of heart. So, right. Let`s say you find your 15- or 16-year-old son that is looking at pornographic sites. In our day, we looked at "Playboy," but if this was available, let`s be honest. We`d probably would have looked there.

So, you have to understand what`s normal, what`s not normal. You have to have discussions about it. And I think just the threat that maybe you`re watching, the idea that maybe you`re watching, may curtail that behavior a little bit.

SMERCONISH: So in "Hold Tight," it`s a work of fiction.

COBEN: Yes.

SMERCONISH: But you`re trying to make some important -- to send some important messages to parents at the same time.

COBEN: Yes, I want them to learn something. But the way this came to me was friends had told me they`d put spyware on their 16-year-old son`s computer, and at first, my knee-jerk, American reaction was to be aghast. Invasion of privacy.

But as I started to think about it, I realized it`s not that black and white. It`s a very, very gray area. And one that we really should be discussing with our kids. I`m happy, like, mother and children book clubs are reading it, and it opens up discussions.

SMERCONISH: If you go the spyware route...

COBEN: Yes.

SMERCONISH: ... should you tell them?

COBEN: I think you should. I know some parents say they shouldn`t, and it`s not a one-size-fits-all deal. If you have a really troubled kid and maybe it`s OK not to tell them. You know, in many cases, don`t put spyware on at all.

But in my -- in my view, my daughter read my "New York Times" op-ed piece on it. And she goes, "Dad, do we have spyware on the computer?"

I gave her the honest answer, is "No, but we might."

SMERCONISH: Right. I guess the other alternative is you could just tell them you`re using it, even if you`re not...

COBEN: That`s not a bad idea.

SMERCONISH: ... which is probably the route that I will go.

COBEN: Yes. And it`s hard to actually -- it`s not a thing that anybody is comfortable with. But the idea is we`re also not the government. We`re parents.

SMERCONISH: Right.

COBEN: Children are not autonomous beings. They are -- you know, they are your children. You do have to protect them. You wouldn`t let them walk down a red-light district without watching them. The Internet opens up an entire world. You have to really be somewhat careful.

SMERCONISH: The book is called "Hold Tight." Harlan Coben, the author. Continued success. Thank you for being here.

COBEN: Good to see you.

SMERCONISH: And we`ll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: Next Tuesday, Democrats in Pennsylvania will have a major say in the presidential primary process for the first time since the `70s. In addition to the primary, the Keystone State also has two prominent individuals in the running for vice president. For the Democrats, there`s Ed Rendell. He`s now in his second term as governor. He`s currently supporting Hillary Clinton. But here`s why he`d make a good pick for either Democratic candidate. He was a terrific mayor. And he continues to get good marks during his tenure as governor. Downside? Tends to be a little unmuzzled. Not a bad thing in my book.

He`s the one who was caught recently as saying that perhaps Pennsylvanians are not ready to vote for an African-American. That cost him so points. As for the GOP, Tom Ridge, right out of central casting, I like to say. Handsome guy, an amazing story. Grew up in public housing, educated at Harvard. Fought for his country in Vietnam. A congressman from Erie, Pennsylvania, then a two-term governor of our state, the first secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

Some think that a downside is his pro-choice record. I happen to disagree. I think to be successful in November, the Republicans need to grow their tent, and not limit their appeal.

I`m joined now by former governor Tom Ridge, CEO of the consulting firm Ridge Global. Hi governor, good to see you.

TOM RIDGE (R), FORMER PENNSYLVANIA GOVERNOR: Mike, nice to join you today, thank you.

SMERCONISH: I`m in a quandary here. Help me out. If I don`t ask you about the VP speculation, then I`m derelict in my duty. But if I do ask you, you are not giving me anything. Give me something. Let`s make a headline.

RIDGE: You got it absolutely right. Look, No. 1, it`s flattering to be included in what I think John`s very, very deep bench. He has a lot of people from whom he can choose. I`m grateful that you brought it up. Why don`t you and I just wait until John makes up his mind and then we`ll both talk about it?

SMERCONISH: Can we at least agree on this, governor, that there ought not be a litmus test relative to the choice issue? Look Pennsylvania, you know the politics of this state. You`re a two-term governor. You`ve got to win Pennsylvania, I think, to capture the White House. And I`m not so sure that a pro-choice, pro-life, somebody defined solely on that issue is the way to win our state.

RIDGE: Well, I think, again, there would be a lot of people giving my friend John McCain a lot of advice one way or the other. I know him very, very well. He will take that advice and then make the decision and choose a running mate with whom he is most comfortable, with whom he thinks he can lead America. And so whether it`s a litmus test or not, we`ll see. But you and I can talk about it once he makes that choice.

SMERCONISH: There`s not a headline in there so far.

RIDGE: You`re right. And I work very hard not to give you one.

SMERCONISH: You really hung with him through thick and thin. Last summer, politically speaking, folks left him for dead. What accounts for his resurgence?

RIDGE: Will, character, judgment. You know, I think people take a look at the complexities associated with America, not only fighting global terrorism, but the emergence of China and some problems down the road potentially with Russia, the continuing turbulence in the Middle East. The first thing they think of is a commander in chief that`s experienced, demonstrated time and time again good judgment, and really strong relationships overseas.

I think character helped him a great deal and it was also a matter of will. I remember seeing him in July of last year, we talked a little bit about the demise of the campaign. Quickly, and this is not a man who dwells a lot on the past, obviously . He took, personally took responsibility for it. He said, "I guess I should have paid more attention. I`m at the top of the flow chart."

He looked me right in the eye and he said, "You know, Tom, I have been through worse than this. Sit me, let me show you how I think we can win this thing."

So, when the story is written about his comeback and his election in November, there`s going to find out there`s a period there of four, five months, he`s operating out of a shoe box with a couple of loyal friends. But at the end of the day, with his leadership, his character, just propelled himself into the victory, in New Hampshire and away we went.

SMERCONISH: I want to ask you Governor Ridge the barca lounger question. Tuesday night, you`re in yours and you`re watching the results come in on the other side of the aisle. Do you want that race to be over so it`s finally candidate A versus John McCain? Or do you want it to go on for awhile?

I know the conventional wisdom sir is that the Ds are doing great harm to one another. I don`t see it that way. I think ought of sight, out of mind, and the sooner we get to the general election, the better you are, meaning you, John McCain.

RIDGE: Well, I don`t know. I guess I probably disagree with you a little bit on that. While they continue their brass knuckle fight and the debate in Philadelphia was kind of interesting. They spent more time at each other than they did talk about the direction of the country if they were president.

They look like candidates trying to grab the grass ring, and John is out there looking like a president. So, you can argue both ways, but in any event, my suspicion is it probably goes closer to the convention. Either way, we`ve got a campaign to run and we`re going to run it and let the Democrats do their thing. We will engage -- either one is going to be very, very formidable from Labor Day on. We know that for a fact. We`ll be ready.

SMERCONISH: We only have a couple of seconds left. I want to let the secret out of the bag as to how you got elected because you and I both know it was that commercial where you are in front of the house where you grew up, it`s a cold day, go ahead, screen door opens and what happens?

RIDGE: My mother looks out the door, I`m wearing a bomber jacket without a hat. Winter day and she said, "Hey tom, put your hat on."

SMERCONISH: Tom, you forgot your hat. Everybody loved it. We elected you governor and the rest is history. Good to see you again.

RIDGE: Thank you, Michael. Good talking with you.

SMERCONISH: Governor Tom Ridge, there you go. Turning now to the Democratic side of the aisle in talking Pennsylvania politics, Governor Ed Rendell, a huge Hillary Clinton supporter. Hey governor, welcome.

GOVERNOR ED RENDELL (D), PENNSLYVANIA: Hi, Michael, how are you?

SMERCONISH: You know, what I remember is the day that she came to town, for a city hall ceremony, you and Mayor Nutter both there. It was carried live on KYW, which as you know governor is our news radio station in Philadelphia. And I was driving in my car listening and as I listened to your words, I said this is not the typical political endorsement. This guy really means it and is passionate about it. You went on for a long time, extemporaneous. Tell me what drives your being so supportive of Hillary Clinton.

RENDELL: Well, I`ve known Hillary for 15 years, and I`ve admired her ability to fight for the things she believes in, and her, really her unwillingness to quit because one of the things I found in Harrisburg -- if you were to ask me why we`ve had some level of legislative success, it`s because I just don`t take no for an answer. If they turn me down in year one, we go back in year two with the same thing and we push and we push until we work out some form of compromise that gets the job done. And Hillary has that same type of energy and refusal to quit on things she believes in.

Secondly, I looked at the Web sites. I looked at John Edwards Web site, Hillary`s and Barack Obama`s before I endorsed. They were down to three candidates. And her Web site has terrific solutions for the problems that face America. And unlike most candidates, she spells out in a section of her Web site how she`s going to pay for each time she`s spending money.

Like for the renewable energy fund, she spells how she`s going to pay for it, where that money is going to come from. So, I think she has the best solutions to our problems. She`s the fighter we need.

No offense to Senator Obama, who I think is a good guy and would make a good president. But you`re not going to get the drug companies to agree to sell drugs to the United States government at a huge wholesale price by singing kumbaya. You`re just not.

SMERCONISH: Is he getting as free ride? Are you upset with the media not putting more scrutiny on him in the way that they have on her?

RENDELL: I think for the bulk of the campaign, that`s been the case. I think a lot of things that he has done had she done them, would have been subject to screaming headlines and three-week stories.

I think last night, the attention of the debate was turned on him, and I don`t think he responded. Look, some of it was silly. I don`t care if someone wears a flag lapel pin. I care about whether they believe in this country and are willing to fight for this country. Some of it was silly. But some of it was important.

And then when we got into the substantive debate, I thought she scored a divisive victory. She had the facts under command. She had solutions, boom, boom, boom. He struggled with the payroll tax. He struggled with social security. He struggled with guns. She was much sharper, much crisper and much more in command.

SMERCONISH: Who has got the momentum? You`ve been around the track and the margin they say is about six if you believe Terry Madonna and the folks at F&M. What do you say?

RENDELL: Well, I think she captured the momentum last night. I think he had momentum because of outspending us on TV four to one. That momentum had pretty much stopped even before his comments on bitter Pennsylvanians. The bitter Pennsylvanians stopped whatever momentum he had and caused them to backtrack a little bit. I think the real margin is somewhere between six and eight or six and nine. I think her debate performance last night, she should pick up a point or two among the undecideds. So I think it`s going to be very close to the eight, 11 or eight or 12, or seven to 10- point margin, that spread. And I think the momentum now is hers again.

SMERCONISH: Governor in your capacity as a former head of the DNC, paint for me the picture of a happy ending, no pun intended. But how do the Ds emerge from this? With everybody under the same tent, the minority community not feeling disenfranchised if in fact it`s your candidate. How do you all get on the same page?

RENDELL: Well, first of all, let me say I heard you a couple of days ago, I think the first day you were on, and there is terrible hand wringing here about how this has weakened the party and weakened the candidates and I don`t buy it. I think our candidates are stronger and better.

Hey, if Barack Obama is worried about the bitterness commercial that Clinton is running, wait until he sees if he`s the nominee, the 527s on the Republican side. They are going to make what Hillary`s saying seem mild in comparison. And it`s a good exercise. It strengthens both of our the candidates for the fall run.

Now if Clinton does emerge as the nominee, I think it`s incumbent upon her and I am not a Clinton insider, I don`t claim to be, but I think it`s incumbent for her to try to persuade Barack Obama to go on the ticket. I think it will be hard because he`ll be disappointed.

SMERCONISH: I thought that was your slot.

RENDELL: No, no. I want to stay here, Michael.

SMERCONISH: She`s got three or so days, she taps you for the VP and then she wins Pennsylvania handily.

RENDELL: She can win Pennsylvania without me. And I do want to stay here. I have a lot that I want to finish.

But I think if it`s Clinton/Obama ticket, that absolutely washes away any of the problems with the Obama voters. That`s the best avenue for her.

For him, I would offer, if I was Barack Obama and I won the nomination, I would offer the vice presidency to her. And the first instinct would be not to take it. I would argue, if I had a chance to her, look, it`s not so bad being the first woman vice president in the United States history, too. And Senator Obama could give Senator Clinton health care as her portfolio to work on in the new administration if they are successful. I think they would be a great team together.

SMERCONISH: Governor Rendell, many, many thanks, we really appreciate you being here. Thank you sir.

RENDELL: Thanks, Michael. Stay tuned, right?

SMERCONISH: Indeed.

Coming up, Morgan Spurlock joins me right here on set to discuss his latest film, "Where in the World is Osama bin Laden?" Don`t miss that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: In 2004, Morgan Spurlock spent 30 days eating nothing but McDonald`s to se what it would do to his health. He documented that in his hit movie "Super Size Me," which earned him an Oscar nomination. Now he`s exploring an entirely different world and is in pursuit of the world`s most illusive terrorist, Osama bin Laden.

In his new documentary, "Where in the World is Osama bin Laden?" Spurlock spent five months traveling to 15 different countries to make the film. So after looking in places such as Pakistan, Afghanistan and Egypt, did he get any closer to finding bin Laden than the U.S. government?

Here with us now, writer, producer, director Morgan Spurlock to talk about his new documentary. You are a funny guy. I loved "Super Size Me." I`m looking forward to seeing this and reading the book, as well.

MORGAN SPURLOCK, FILMMAKER: Well, thank you.

SMERCONISH: But it`s the most serious of subjects. It really angers me. I made an endorsement yesterday in the "Philadelphia Daily News" yesterday in the presidential race based solely on who I thought would really go get bin Laden. Why aren`t we getting this guy? What did you learn?

SPURLOCK: You know, I mean, I think the thing is, we look at him as being so marginalized in the war on terror. That he`s in a place that nobody really cares. He`s kind of contained there.

But what you see over the course of the movie which I think is really interesting is we`re traveling to Egypt, Morocco, Israel, the Palestinian territories, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. His influence is everywhere. You see him and his ideology. It really has gone out, you know, across the globe. And so for me that`s one of the biggest things we have to combat. Now it`s not so much him as just the thinking.

SMERCONISH: One of the things that I read in a review of the movie, because I`ve not yet had the privilege of seeing it is that you learned we`re not as loathed in those parts of the world as we might assume we are.

SPURLOCK: Absolutely not. I mean, I think we get really one version of what Islam is and what Muslims think of America in that part of the world. And is this if bleeds, it leads. That really is a very big news mantra that continues to reign the day.

And what you see is people, I hate America, death to all of you. But you don`t see the other side of this, which I believe is the real silent majority of people who don`t hate America. They admire what America is and what America stands for and they like American people. They don`t like the foreign policy or the government, but they can separate the two. And I think that`s great to hear because we don`t hear that very often.

SMERCONISH: So there`s some vignettes in the movie where folks want Morgan Spurlock to know, hey those radical Islamists, they don`t speak for me.

SPURLOCK: That`s not me and it`s great to hear that and it`s great to also see a tremendous amount of commonality. When you sit down with someone who they want their kids to get an education, have health care. They want to be able to have a job, put a roof over their head and have food on the table. I could be having that conversation with my neighbor in Brooklyn. That`s something we don`t hear that, either.

SMERCONISH: My expectation based on "Super Size Me" is that with Morgan Spurlock, I`m getting a couple of laughs along the way and there`s going to be a message. I`m going to get some content. So what am I going to get on the issue of, why the hell we can`t find bin Laden?

SPURLOCK: Well I think that what you get in terms of that is just the sense that he`s become really something else. He`s become an enigma. I think when you see the film, what really comes out of that is this idea that he`s like Keyser Soze. He`s everywhere and he`s nowhere.

SMERCONISH: Who is Keyser Soze?

SPURLOCK: That`s right. Maybe he`s Kevin Spacey. Maybe that`s him. Maybe we need to find him.

SMERCONISH: That`s not funny, though.

SPURLOCK: It`s not, but if you don`t laugh, you cry. That`s the whole thing. And so for me, that`s what the film is all about. Lily Tomlin said something years ago which is you have to find humor in everything because through humor you find humanity.

SMERCONISH: You started you because you wanted to know, why haven`t we found him? And then your wife Alex becomes pregnant and that sort of causes the project to go in a different direction?

SPURLOCK: It was a big shift for me personally. One of the things that all of us, especially as parents, can relate and think about. The minute I found out we were going to have a kid, it`s what kind of world and I bringing a kid into? It`s not just about where is he and why haven`t we found him? It`s a bigger question and I think we can all find a little piece of us in that question.

SMERCONISH: You want to go grab a Big Mac when this is over?

SPURLOCK: I think I`m done. I`m like the kid who got locked in the closet with the cigars. I`ve smoked my whole box of cigars, I`m finished.

SMERCONISH: No more Mickey D`s for you?

SPURLOCK: No, no more. Every once in awhile, maybe a little In `N Out Burger.

SMERCONISH: Are you recognized when you go in there?

SPURLOCK: At the In `N Out Burger? Oh, completely, they`re like, oh, look he`s here.

SMERCONISH: I remember from that project that one of the problems that it had on your body was relative to your manhood. And I`m sitting here and I`m thinking, well wife got pregnant during this project, I guess that sorted itself out.

SPURLOCK: Yes, it was all taken care of. Once you flush me out, everything`s back to normal.

SMERCONISH: What is the reaction of our government to your new movie project?

SPURLOCK: I don`t know if they`ve seen it yet.

SMERCONISH: In the trailer, you are riding like in a convoy. I mean, you clearly had the support of the military, or at least some component of it.

SPURLOCK: Once we got there, we got the support of NATO forces when we were in Afghanistan. We were denied an imbed by the Department of State before we left. But once we got there, there wasn`t a whole lot of communication between the two because we show up and we`re like, hey, we want to go out with the troops and they`re like, sure, great, when do you want to go? How is Tuesday? So, the troops, they are fantastic. They did a great job of taking care of us. Those guys are heroes for what they do.

SMERCONISH: Only have a minute left. Did you come away with a better understanding of those tribal regions in northwest Pakistan where bin Laden is presumed to be hiding, this no man`s land of lawlessness?

SPURLOCK: Yes, I mean, I think -- that`s where your journey comes to a close. We get to the border. From what people say, within like 50 to 75 miles of where he was. Right before we got there, there was a madras that was blown up, so about 75-80 people got killed. So the anti-American, anti-Western sentiment was really high at that point.

So we made the choice not to go in. And I decided to come home and actually be there for the birth of my son. But I think there`s a way for us to go in there it`s just now possibly without Musharraf, there will be a way for us to do that.

SMERCONISH: Quarter pounder with cheese?

SPURLOCK: No thanks.

SMERCONISH: Fry?

SPURLOCK: No, keep trying.

SMERCONISH: Morgan Spurlock, many thanks.

SPURLOCK: Thank you.

SMERCONISH: It`s a pleasure to meet you. We`re going to be back in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: As we inch closer to next week`s Democratic primary in Pennsylvania, both candidates are out campaigning day and night, trying to get as much support as possible. One area Barack Obama has been paying particular attention is the Jewish community. He recently met with Jewish community leaders in Philadelphia to try to ease any concerns they might have about his candidacy before Election Day. CNN`s Bill Schneider has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Does Barack Obama have a Jewish problem? We asked Jennifer Siegel, who covers the campaign for "The Jewish Daily Forward."

JENNIFER SIEGEL, "THE JEWISH DAILY FORWARD": I don`t know that he has a Jewish problem, but there`s been considerable debate in the Jewish community about whether he can be trusted on foreign policy.

SCHNEIDER: When Obama met with Philadelphia Jewish leaders on Wednesday, he made this assertion.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that nobody has been able to identify any set of comments that I have made or any positions that I have taken that are contrary to the interests of the Jewish community or of Israel.

SCHNEIDER: Former President Jimmy Carter has said he will meet with Hamas. Would Obama?

OBAMA: I would not meet with Hamas, given that it`s a terrorist organization. It is not a state.

SCHNEIDER: Has Obama been having a problem with Jewish voters? Not really. Jewish voters are split, like many other Democrats. The exit polls show Hillary Clinton carried Jewish voters in New York, New Jersey, and Maryland. Obama carried Jewish voters in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and California.

So, what`s the problem?

SIEGEL: We`re seeing sort of generalized uneasiness related to some scattered remarks he`s made about wanting to sit down with leaders in Iran and other places, about feeling that Israel does need to take steps for peace.

SCHNEIDER: The key word seems to be uneasy.

SIEGEL: Uneasy with his association with his pastor, Jeremiah Wright, who, of course, has had dealings with Louis Farrakhan.

SCHNEIDER: Many Jewish leaders simply don`t know him.

SIEGEL: Obama is someone who`s not tremendously well known in the Jewish community, is somewhat of a screen for people to sort of project their fears on to.

SCHNEIDER: Barack Obama is meeting with Jewish leaders to try to reassure them, they have nothing to fear. Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SMERCONISH: That`s all for tonight. I`m Michael Smerconish in for Glenn Beck. From New York, good night.

END