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Neo-Nazi Demonstration in Nation's Capital; Campaign News
Aired April 19, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight from Philadelphia, this is Independence Hall. Bill of rights, freedom of speech meant to include even this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MAHER, TALK SHOW HOST: He used to be a Nazi and he wears funny hats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Tonight, Bill Maher is taking it back. But not all of it. And the pope is getting Maher and the world this assurance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE BENEDICT XVI: We will absolutely exclude pedophiles from the sacred ministry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You want irony? In this, the city of brotherly love talked all week is about bitterness, as in bitter case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not clinging to my faith out of frustration and bitterness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, real Neo-Nazis clashed in Washington. But now there's a backlash. Some African-Americans are angry that Barack Obama is being cast as an uppity black.
A what?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I remember really well --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: OK, so what do the polls say? Surprise, we'll have it for you. Should the man who worked for Bill have asked a question of his wife's opponent fed to him by Sean Hannity? The heat on ABC and George Stephanopoulos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was quoted in "The New York Times" saying, "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough. An early organizing meeting for your state Senate campaign was held at his house, and your campaign has said you are friendly."
Can you explain that relationship for the voters?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I guess we're hearing some shaking here. It sounds like we have an earthquake here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And what's shaking in the next primary state? Everything. We're looking ahead.
The bottom line is this. This city where rocky climbed these steps is red hot and ready for a fight. Round one starts now.
And hello, again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. You know why we're here? You know why we're here in Pennsylvania? Because Pennsylvania matters, matters a lot. And there is big news tonight.
In the last 24 hours alone this thing has tightened up even more. Remember, a big win here by either candidate could be a deal closer. We're now about 60 hours away from the polls opening. And, let me tell you, people in this city -- this city you see behind me, they're pumped, they're juiced, they're ready to go. They know what they got to do for their candidate.
Let's start with what we call the Pennsylvania poll of polls. This is a compilation of polls from this week. Remember, some of these may have included information that came in before the debate.
If you average them out, here is what you get. Look at this, folks. Clinton, 48 percent. Obama, 43 percent. Unsure, 9 percent. That's a difference of what, 4, 5 points? So what's happening here? How did this thing get so tight? How can this thing be tightening in Obama's favor, given the tough week he had? Or maybe supposedly had?
Suzanne Malveaux is part of The Best Political Team on Television. She is good enough to join us now. She is in Paoli, Pennsylvania.
Suzanne, how can the polls and the media stories reflect such different perspectives on the part of the voters?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Rick, nobody knows really who is going to take that victory lap up those rocky steps. But, you know what you mentioned, the voters are pumped, they are juiced. And really what we're looking at here is that some of the things that we've been talking about, they may not mean that much to the voters here in Pennsylvania.
They're looking at the economic situation, the gas prices, losing their homes, their jobs. They're also talking and looking about when U.S. troops are going to come out of Iraq. So these other kinds of side bar issues may be just that side bar issues. But neither of these candidates are really going to take a chance on that. That's why they are crisscrossing the state. That's why they are trying to reach out to as many voters as possible.
We saw Barack Obama in his kind of whistle stop tour, going through southeast part of the state, shaking hands, blowing the whistle, saying "All aboard, come on board." He really wants to try to get a lot of support with those working class voters that they're fiercely competing over. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'll be honest with you about the challenges we face. I will listen to you. I will hear your voices in the White House. I will fight for you each and every day. And if you're willing to fight with me and stand up with me and vote for me, then I promise you that we can achieve what the founders intended.
We can have a government of and by and for the people. We can work to perfect this union. You and I together, we won't just win Pennsylvania, we'll win this nomination. We'll win the general election. And then we will change this country and change the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Now, Rick, this really could be a game-changer for Hillary Clinton. This could be a do or die competition. Obviously, they are looking at the polls, saying that they believe she is going to win Pennsylvania, but by a narrow margin.
And people are going to be looking at this, wondering whether or not she can really make the case to the superdelegates, which is what she is trying to do, to say, look, I'm the one in the general election who is going to win these big states, so therefore, I am the stronger candidate of the two. Her campaign says that they have been knocking on doors. They say about 100,000 they're going to knock on this weekend.
We'll see whether or not that actually happens. And that they are going to be on the phone making about a million calls. It is very, very clear here, Rick, that they are putting everything on the line for this state. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It took Clinton to clean up after a Bush. It's going to take a Clinton to clean up after a Bush.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: Rick, that's one of those lines that gets huge applause. Obviously, a lot of people in Pennsylvania, they are motivated, they are excited, they are looking for some sort of change. A lot of Democrats who voted early and also going to be coming out on Tuesday. It's going to be fascinating to see just how close this race is.
But Rick, I should also let you know as well that Senator Clinton and her camp say that she is in this for the long haul. That se's looking ahead of Pennsylvania. We've already seen her invest in North Carolina and Indiana with ads, with money, with offices. So she wants to take this to the very end.
Rick?
SANCHEZ: You know, it's not just a long haul. It's really a tough haul. Because let's not kid ourselves. When you look at the number, they break in favor of Obama at this point.
She needs to win Pennsylvania with a somewhat sizable margin, does she not? And then do well in Indiana and somehow compete in North Carolina just to be able to say, right -- that, look, this thing is so close, I may not be ahead, but it's relatively a tie, so let's let the superdelegates make the decision, correct?
MALVEAUX: Rick, here's the most optimistic scenario here that her supporters are looking at. If she could come in a high single digit lead or low double digit lead here in Pennsylvania, that that would be a victory for her camp.
If she could actually come out on top or pretty close in Indiana and then an upset in North Carolina, they believe that that would put a stop to the momentum for Barack Obama that he would essentially hit a wall. Now, that is the most optimistic scenario here. What they have to do is come in with a large enough lead to say, look, I'm much, much stronger here in Pennsylvania, when it comes to these big states. Making that case to the superdelegates.
And also the other thing that we've seen in the last week or so is this whole issue of character. Who is more honest, who is tougher, who is the one who is going to be the stronger commander-in-chief. That has resurfaced since we've been dealing with some of those controversies and that is something, too, that the Clinton campaign hopes the voters are paying very close attention to.
Rick?
SANCHEZ: We're going to see. As a matter of fact -- what did we say -- about 60 hours before we start the count? What the voters have actually been paying attention too. And what's affected them? Yes.
Hey, Suzanne Malveaux, we'll be getting back to you.
Man, have we got some great talkers for you right now. You want local perspective, we got it. Dom Giordano is the voice of "Philly." He's on radio station WPHT. Donald kennel is an Ivy League professor. Only going for the best folks, tonight, here at the university.
And let me not say you Penn, it's Penn. Not to be confused with Penn State. That's when you get rocks thrown at you. And E. Steven Collins, host, "Philly Speaks." And I guarantee you, they all got a lot to say tonight.
Don, let's start with you. Who is going to win this thing? And you know, when I say "win," I don't mean numbers win, I mean win.
DOM GIORDANO, RADIO HOST, WPHT: Yes, I know. Expectations game. You're going to see Ed Rendell over the next 48 hours out there, saying six points is a landslide in Pennsylvania, hammering and hammering. Because I think it's going to fall for Hillary right...
SANCHEZ: Here's the thing it's up but -- we're seeing in the poll of polls that I just shared, professor that it's down to between 4 and 5. Who would have thunk it?
DONALD KETTL, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: 4 percent or 5 percent. And on top of that, one of the things we may be missing are college students who don't get polled because they don't have land lines and...
SANCHEZ: Land lines, you mean (INAUDIBLE).
KETTL: They got cell phones and pollsters don't call cell phones.
SANCHEZ: So you mean the pollsters can't reach them?
KETTL: They can't reach them, they don't know, and they're breaking 4 to 1 for Obama.
SANCHEZ: I've found the same thing as I've gone to colleges and universities. What about African-American voters at this point? I mean, are they even more determined now because of the infighting that took place this week with some of the language, supposedly that Obama used?
E. STEVEN COLLINS, RADIO HOST, "PHILLY SPEAKS": I think -- I think African-Americans in Philadelphia and in the eight-county metropolitan area are not just caught up over the ethnic pride issue, and they are, we all are, as black people, in this nation.
Barack Obama is a statesman. He's leaderly. He's a visionary person. But his credentials and what he represents transpires a lot of that. And I think a lot of people are just excited about who he is.
SANCHEZ: You know, we also found that this is interesting. We've been looking at some polls. See if we got this poll that we put up. We wanted to see what's really moving Pennsylvania. I mean, what's the thing that's driving them the most. And what we found is 51 percent of them say, you know, what's moving them, the economy. More than the war in Iraq. More than healthcare.
Pennsylvanians are lock, stock, and barrel -- locked into this economy situation. Why?
KETTL: The top three issues in Pennsylvania, the economy, the economy, the economy. You go -- we've been worried about while male.
SANCHEZ: (INAUDIBLE) the country?
KETTL: What's happening is happening around the country and happening here as much as anywhere. Go to central Pennsylvania where Hillary Clinton was today. And you think about what represents white male voters more than anything else, riding a Harley Davidson.
They've laid off 300 workers this weeks and that's the kind of voters that Hillary is now trying to appeal. Job have been lost.
SANCHEZ: So that's not going to play to her strength in this situation.
KETTL: But it's the kind of people that she's trying to get at. They're the people that Obama is having a hard time getting. She has a chance of winning. It's her ability to be able to switch those people.
SANCHEZ: You know, we were talking just a little bit about -- you got to stay right there. I want to talk about something when we come back that I think is interesting.
It's almost like -- it's almost like a backlash, if you will, of something everybody was saying was going to be hurting Obama. It may be helping Obama in a very interesting way.
African-Americans have a way of referring to this. They say it's that uppity black thing. It's what he said about black men or women when someone of the other skin color -- what they say, and they say it's unfair. And they seem to be using it against Hillary Clinton.
We're going to bring you in on that, because it's a conversation taking place across the country and especially in Chicago. We'll have that for you. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I got to tell you, it could be a more beautiful night in Philadelphia. Why we're here, well, we'd like to say we came because we knew the weather was going to be good. But in actuality, the city's pumped, the state is pumped, and there's going to be a primary here that may decide who is going to be the presumptive candidate for the Democratic Party.
Tonight, there is a new twist, by the way, on what has been a week-long story. Barack Obama was hammered this week for his so- called elitist language. But now there seems to be a backlash from many African-Americans against Hillary Clinton and anybody else who has criticized Barack Obama for saying so. Perri Small is one half of the "The Matt and Perri Show." She's on Chicago's 1690, WVON.
Perri, thanks so much for being with us.
PERRI SMALL, CO-HOST, "THE MATT & PERRI SHOW": Thank you so much for having me. I've been enjoying the conversation.
SANCHEZ: You know, I was driving through Chicago, and that's the reason you're here with us. I started listening to your show. And I started hearing many of your callers calling in and saying, you know what they're doing this to man, it's the uppity black thing again. That's what they are doing to him.
I heard you agree with them. And I heard caller after caller express the very same thing. Bring our viewers up-to-date on exactly what that sentiment represents.
SMALL: Well, you know, Barack Obama, he's been a terrorist, he's been a racist. Now, he's an elitist. I wonder what "if" he's going to be next week. But, you know, people are just really -- at least our listener, they are just really upset with this terminology of elitist, because they do equate that with, of course, saying maybe -- well, maybe he's just too high on himself. Maybe he knows too much, maybe he's one of those uppity black people.
And this is something that we -- this is something that African- Americans have dealt with for decades, even during Jim Crow. If an African-American would want to speak out about something -- Oh, he's one of those uppity people. So we deal with those.
SANCHEZ: But can you -- you know what, you need to do, Perri -- you need to make the correlation for those of us who are at home, who are watching and maybe don't get it. What does criticizing him for saying that perhaps there are some people who are clinging to things like guns, for example, and their religion -- what does that have to do with people perhaps accusing him of being uppity? How do you put the two together?
SMALL: I have no idea. And, you know, is it because, you know, people are starting to say, well, you know what, maybe his credentials are too good. You know, maybe they don't like the idea that he -- you know, he was on the Harvard Law Review, that he went to Harvard, that his wife goes to Harvard.
Maybe those are some of the issues. Maybe -- if you are not African-American, maybe it's difficult for you to understand how that type of terminology is offensive and can be offensive.
SANCHEZ: Yes, because it's personal, isn't it?
SMALL: It's very personal, because it makes it seem like if you are an educated man, if you embrace the values that Americans are supposed to embrace, then you have to be something different. There are so many white guys out there who are -- and white females who are in Congress, who are in corporate America, who are in different universities, working at different university, and would you call them uppity.
Because they have these same types of credentials or because they recognize that, as you were saying before, this is an economy issue in Pennsylvania? And people are bitter. Why wouldn't someone be bitter because they have lost jobs and then when their car breaks down, they call AAA, and they're end up -- and they're talking to somebody in India? Why wouldn't they be bitter?
SANCHEZ: Perri, you know what I want to do, I want to bring our panel in on this.
SMALL: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much for being with us.
SMALL: Thank you so much.
SANCHEZ: Because I mean, it's a fascinating -- thank you. It's a fascinating conversation. You know what's really interesting about this, gentlemen, the Clintons were beloved by the African-American community in the United States.
Are they losing them more and more every day? And is it suddenly because Barack Obama's running or is it because of the way they're handling Barack Obama?
COLLINS: I think there is a lot to be said about the jabs that Hillary made during the last debate and the series of comments that she made to somebody who's revered by African-Americans.
Now, Rick, go back to the original question. The questioner asked Barack Obama, are whites in parts of the state racist for not supporting you. And he said no, they're not.
SANCHEZ: Huh.
COLLINS: They are, in fact, bitter, because the White House was ignoring their pleas for help over economic issues and a variety of other issues by sending so much of our tax base...
SANCHEZ: You're saying he shouldn't have been criticized for that?
COLLINS: Absolutely not.
SANCHEZ: You agree, Don?
GIORDANO: No, absolutely, he's going to be criticized...
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: Steve is leaving out the key part of this. Leaving out the part about saying this people who are culturally into God, guns, and issues that they care about are not going to be pulled over to the Democratic side or Barack Obama simply because of healthcare and economics. And people are angry... SANCHEZ: But do you know --
CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Don, do you get what he was trying to say? He's trying to say we've got a 3 trillion expense in Iraq...
GIORDANO: Right.
SANCHEZ: ...We've got all these situations. We've got gas going on...
GIORDANO: Right.
SANCHEZ: ...We've got jobs going overseas and all Americans want to talk about is immigrants and the (INAUDIBLE)...
GIORDANO: But Rick, the thing is, though, you try to please your client. And the clients are saying, we care about these things.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GIORDANO: They've said it in election. That's why Bush beat Gore and Kerry. People cared about that in Ohio and places like that.
SANCHEZ: And Kerry didn't get it.
GIORDANO: And they don't get it.
SANCHEZ: Then Kerry, didn't get it.
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: Books have been written about this.
COLLINS: A lot of things are changing in the country. And what we see is in state after state where there are tiny minority population, Barack Obama has been winning. He's been winning because he's speaking the truth. Nobody wants to hear continued promises from the White House about why we're in Iraq and how much longer we have to there.
SANCHEZ: Professor --
(CROSSTALK)
GIORDANO: I want to bring you the economy here in this state and across this country.
SANCHEZ: But here's the question I got for you. This thing, will it play into his hand or her hand?
KETTL: This ultimately, I think it's playing into his hand.
SANCHEZ: His hand? KETTL: First of all, it's saying, look, this has been unfair. And they're beating up on our guy, and he's mobilizing the base. And the more the base gets mobilize and more that's the key to victory. If not absolutely in Pennsylvania, ultimately.
But the other thing is that there is a linkage here -- deal isn't quite closed but there to be had on the economy. And that's future. That's opportunity, and it's what it is that unites working class white voters with black voters looking at what kind of jobs we're going to be having for the future.
SANCHEZ: Right.
KETTL: That's what the people want to hear. That's why the Clinton people...
GIORDANO: Hey, let me take it back to the reason he made this comment is in state after state he hasn't been able to get those white working class voters, as brilliant as he is, as much as he's about unification, he was asked that question because he can't reach them.
KETTL: And the thing is --
(CROSSTALK)
KETTL: I think you're making a huge assumption.
GIORDANO: I look at the numbers.
COLLINS: Look at all the numbers though. Look at what he's done in states where African-Americans are one percent or two percent or three percent of the population.
GIORDANO: I'm talking about in the big industrial states.
COLLINS: Look at what's been happening in those areas. People aren't listening to Hillary. Her credibility is diminished tremendously. People don't trust her.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Raise your hand if you think Barack Obama is intellectually elitist. Intellectually elitist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean?
SANCHEZ: It means he's really smart, isn't it?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a smart guy.
SANCHEZ: Elite means a good thing.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's smart and not look down on people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We used to think it's good too. Smart being able to do good thing, that's not so bad.
SANCHEZ: We'll leave it there. We'll come back to this. I think you guys are just about juiced up right now. We've got two congressmen coming up. Many of these similar question, plus some others. One of them represents Barack Obama. The other pulling for Hillary Clinton. This is going to be a good debate.
And then, we've got a Neo-Nazi demonstration in our nation's capital over Adolf Hitler's birthday? And it gets ugly. And we've got the pics. We're live in Philadelphia where things are heating up as well, but not that bad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, I'm Rob Marciano with a look at your headlines. What in the world is going on in Chicago? My goodness.
In the first 12 hours of this weekend, at least 20 people were shot in separate incidents throughout the city. In the south, north and west sides. Some of them with fatalities. Most resulted in people being sent to Chicago hospitals.
Yes, this is why they call it free speech. Neo-Nazis were legally allowed to hold a rally today on the National Mall and even had flanks of police to protect them. About 40 of them marched from the Washington monument to the capital. And then you can see plenty of people showed up who weren't happy with the rally. Five people were arrested.
What do you think the occasion was? Well, tomorrow's observance of Adolf Hitler's 120th birthday.
And the old and the new today at St. Patrick's Cathedral in Manhattan. Pope Benedict XVI celebrated a traditional mass, but weaved a very modern issue into his message. The pope again addressed the Catholic churches' the sex abuse scandal. Promising priest and other clergy that he remains spiritually close while the church recovers.
Coming up next, he stirred controversy when he talked about what Barack Obama was doing in the streets. Now, B.E.T. Founder Bob Johnson is back, defending Geraldine Ferraro.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
African-Americans see a chance for a black person to have the most important job in the world. There is no doubt that they would be proud and passionate. I think where they go overboard, when they close their mind to responsible criticism. Or when they close their mind to who is the better candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MARCIANO: Well that wasn't all he had to say. We're going to head back to Rick Sanchez in Philadelphia to sort it all out.
Also, Rick will be joined by two Pennsylvania congressmen. One is for Hillary Clinton. The other for Barack Obama. You throw Rick into the mix and you're going to expect the fireworks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I think it's really exciting for a lot of people because you're talking about a serious type of change that the country is in a really pivotal moment. And I think we need to see some change. I think a lot of people feel the same way. So this is one way that, you know, just like our system says, we can, like, pick and choose who we want to be our voice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. We are live. That is the skyline or a part of it, I should say, of the city of Philadelphia behind me. You know the steps right behind me here, these are the steps where Rocky in the movie ran up and then raised his arms at the very end.
That's right, play the -- thank you, Roger.
As if to say this is the city where things can be conquered. Where victories can be made. And this Tuesday, many are hoping that their candidate is victorious. But has this thing gotten tight or what? Down to about 4 or 5 points now. That's in the poll of polls.
Joining us now is one from each side. Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman Chaka Fattah. He is an Obama supporter. And Democratic Congressman Joe Sestak. He is a Clinton supporter.
Congressman Joe, I got to start with you. You're starting to get worried, because that big number we were seeing before for Clinton seems to be diminishing somewhat.
REP. JOE SESTAK (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I don't think that's to be unexpected. I mean, Senator Obama and I have great respect for him is using some traditional means. A lot of money is being pounded into Philadelphia. The third largest, the most expensive media market.
But Philadelphia and in particularly, the rest of Pennsylvania and my district, Delaware County, we're retail politics. Ed Rendell, go to every hoggy shop, you know, at noon time. And bar at every night and shake hands. And that's responsive.
SANCHEZ: Congressman *, is that what it's about? Is it money? Is he just beating her because he has got more dough?
REP. CHAKA FATTAH (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, I think that the Obama campaign and the reason why it has the support it has, is that it's focused on the real issues. On the economy. On how to get our young people out of Iraq. This state lost more soldiers than almost any other state in the country. 200 young people who never get a chance to run up and down this step again. 2400 seriously injured. So no it's not money.
SANCHEZ: But you're sitting next to a soldier, an honorable soldier.
FATTAH: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: This gentleman is the real deal. He's been there.
FATTAH: Yes, he's down there. What I'm telling you is that Senator Obama's support, which is across the state -- look at the crowds today. Look at the largest crowd in history.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but now. Let's be pointed. But let's be pointed in this conversation.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You're sitting next to a man who was over there. Has fought for this country, came back, and was elected in part because of it. What makes you think that Barack Obama would be less capable of handling this conflict in Iraq as a soldier, as a fighting man, than your candidate, Hillary Clinton?
SESTAK: Look, I don't think Barack Obama is less capable. I just know because I served with her in the White House. I testified before her at the Senate Armed Services Committee, that I know she will be more capable on day one.
This is a person who actually has had a front row seat and was involved in many decisions at the White House. I was involved in many significant ones, not all of them.
SANCHEZ: Was she really?
SESTAK: When I walked -- oh, yes, without a question. Think about it.
SANCHEZ: But was she was the first lady or was she the vice president?
SESTAK: Well, think about this. Northern Ireland. Ian Paisley, Protestant. Gerry Adams, Catholic. She watched them only when they shook hands and had political accommodations did militias stand down. Take that to Iraq. She has said, no.
Military security does not beget political accommodation. She said we must force them with political accommodation, then we'll have security. It's why she said to the Pentagon, come across the street and brief us on how long it's going to take us to re-push. As soon as that was over, she said one or two brigade combat teams a month because that's the remaining catalyst we have to force the Iraqis...
SANCHEZ: You serve your candidate well, well spoken.
Congressman, your turn.
FATTAH: Here's the deal. Don't listen to the two of us. We have a candidate we support. Listen to what objective people are saying. Every newspaper in the state, "The Philadelphia Inquirer," "The Philadelphia Daily News," "The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette," "The Bucks County Courier Times," "The Harrisburg Patriot." All of them endorse Barack Obama.
Now, they don't have a candidate in the race. These are people who look at...
SANCHEZ: Are you saying that media knows what it's talking about?
FATTAH: No, what I'm telling you is this -- is that the reason why the polls are closing and it's getting tighter.
SANCHEZ: Right.
FATTAH: Now, it's clearly a home court advantage for Hillary Clinton. But the reason why Barack Obama is doing so well is because he was right on the issues. He was right when he said voted no on the war and Senator Clinton was wrong when she voted for the war.
SANCHEZ: Do you think it may just be a personality thing where Barack Obama has a je ne sais quoi that perhaps Hillary Clinton doesn't have but perhaps her husband did have?
FATTAH: I don't think it's personality at all. I think that...
SANCHEZ: You don't think Barack Obama has an appealing personality that draws crowds, more so than her?
FATTAH: No. I think when he said going to war in Iraq is going to cost us lives and hundreds of billions of dollars, and we should vote no, and Senator Clinton listened to George Bush and voted yes, that these are the two points that separate these two candidates.
SANCHEZ: How about that.
SESTAK: I'm not quite sure what that French or Italian word you said meant. But let me tell you this. I certainly know...
FATTAH: Are you trying to say he's an elitist.
SANCHEZ: There you go. I knew we'd get back to that somehow.
SESTAK: But I certainly know this. Pennsylvania, as Chuck alluded to, we're pretty tough critic people. Look, (INAUDIBLE) came over, worked in steel mills. And he also eluded the fact that we have a national guard that per capita has more people in Iraq than anywhere else.
We still believe in the ideals. But why she fits Pennsylvania like a glove. She keeps on going. She's tough. She's determined. She's tenacious.
SANCHEZ: She is that.
SESTAK: And that's why I said at the beginning, retail politics, no. You're going to find that there's a significant amount who haven't made up their mind. And when you said 5 to 6, no, it's going to be a bit higher. Because she knows, hands down.
SANCHEZ: But it has to be a bit higher. She's the gal from Scranton.
SESTAK: Here's my last thing. Remember Franklin Roosevelt.
SANCHEZ: We're down to about 20 seconds.
SESTAK: When he died, he was going through on a train and this man was crying. Old man. And reporter came up and said, you must have known him. He said, no, but he knew me. She knows us. She knows us well, because she keeps fighting and going on. That's who we are in state. And that's why she'll win.
SANCHEZ: Finish with it.
FATTAH: They say in my church. Weeping may endure for the night, but joy cometh in the morning. So don't worry about the guy crying. Senator Obama is talking about changing our nation, transforming...
SESTAK: I got to do better scriptures.
FATTAH: ...Transforming our country, and that's why -- look at the train trip today, if you look at those crowds all across the state. It's passion.
SESTAK: At the end of the day, it's about results though.
SANCHEZ: We're out of time, but you guys got to take this on the road. I guarantee you it'll make more than you do in Congress.
SESTAK: It's good to be here.
SANCHEZ: Thanks fellows. I appreciate it. Let's go back to Jacqui Jeras now. She's standing by.
And you know, Jacqui, the magic question for you obviously and everybody here is delighted tonight by the weather, but will it be this good for the next three or four days?
(WEATHER REPORT)
SANCHEZ: It really does look like great voting weather. Many American Catholics, interestingly enough are still upset at the church for the sex abuse scandal. The pope comes to the United States. Did he say enough? Did he do enough in terms of mea culpas? Heavy discussion. Stay with us. We're getting into it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: This has been a really important week in the United States, historically. Pope Benedict celebrating mass at New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral today. These are some of the pictures. We at CNN carried it live for you.
Tomorrow, he's going to Ground Zero. Then he's going to celebrate a huge mass. I guess you could say a massive mass at Yankee Stadium.
By the way, today, he mentioned the sex abuse scandal for the fourth time since he arrived in the United States, saying that the scandal had caused so much suffering for the Church. We want to go further into that because, well, as a Catholic American myself, and to many American Catholics, no amount of apology seems to be enough.
It was so hurtful. The feelings of betrayal so deep during that period in our country that this Pope really needed to make amends. The question is did he enough? Nobody covers Rome like our own senior Vatican correspondent John Allen, who's got a lot to say on this matter.
SANCHEZ: You have had a busy week and nobody covers this Pope or the previous Pope, I think, as well as you do. This is personal for many of us who are Catholics. We were deeply hurt by what happened in the Catholic Church in this country with the sexual abuse scandal.
This was an opportunity for this Pope to come to this country and talk to us as Catholics. Did he achieve, in your estimation watching this Pope and talking to people, what you believe and others in the Church believe he needed to do to heal the Church in the eyes of American Catholics?
JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, Rick, you know as well as I do that there are almost 70 million Catholics in this country, which means that you'll probably get as many different answers to that question as there are Catholics out there at the grass roots.
But I would put it this way, I think there are many legitimate questions that have to be asked about the very candid and repeated references that Benedict XVI has made with the sexual abuse crisis. One of those questions would be, where was this candor five years ago when the crisis first erupted in Boston?
Another question would be, what action might blow from it? But setting that aside for the moment, if the $64,000-question coming into this trip was, does the Pope get it? That is, does he understand the depth and gravity of this crisis?
I would say given the remarkably blunt and forceful language we have seen, in addition to this unprecedented gesture of meeting with sex abuse victims. Certainly, it would be hard to make the case that the Pope does not get it.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting, given -- I want the viewers to listen to this sound from the Pope in an interview he did with some reporters on the plane. Here's what the Pope said. Let's take a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE BENEDICT XVI, CATHOLIC CHURCH LEADER: We will absolutely exclude pedophiles from the sacred ministry. This is absolutely incompatible and who is really guilty to be a pedophile cannot be priest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Interestingly enough, John, that was you who asked the Pope that question on the plane. And he essentially said, we're going to make sure we don't have pedophiles in the Church anymore. Most people would scratch their heads when they hear that and say, well, no duh, right?
ALLEN: Yes, I mean, look, I think there's a perfectly defensible argument to be made that this is coming a bit late in the game. But, you know, I think a lot of people probably would say better late than never. I mean, you know, obviously the official position of the Catholic Church all along has been that priests...
SANCHEZ: John, let me just stop you for a minute...
ALLEN: ...certainly are not supposed to be abusing children. So it's not the policy was missing, it was the enforcement that was missing. And, you know, I think people certainly have their eyes on this. Certainly those of us in the press will have their eyes on this to see if vigilant new action follows this new blunt speech.
But the point is we didn't even have the blunt speech before. Now we've got it. I think most people say that's probably a step in the right direction.
SANCHEZ: Was there ever, during this week, when he was here in the United States, a true, heartfelt mea culpa from this Pope?
ALLEN: Well, certainly on the plane, Rick, when he said that we are deeply ashamed, I think that came pretty close. But those magic words, "I'm sorry," apparently came in that private meeting the Pope held with victims of sex abuse. Now, of course, the Vatican released no transcript of that.
But with three of those victims appeared on our air here on CNN, they said the Pope directly to them apologized for what had happened to them. I think that would have to rank as a mea culpa.
SANCHEZ: Yes, this is a painful thing. And I think it's going to be a while like a lot of issues that are this sensitive, that involve people. One final question, John, before we let you go and we're down to about 30 seconds.
Is this Pope going to enter that extremely sensitive fray involving the extreme sentiments being expressed in this country that most would think are anti-immigrant? What have been the Pope's words on this and how much more will he get involved?
ALLEN: Yes, again, on the plane he was asked a question about immigration. He very pointedly said that he supported a policy of generosity and he specifically said that he was concerned about immigration policies that divide families. So, we have the Pope on the record on that point.
SANCHEZ: Interesting. Especially when you consider what else has been said in this country in that regard. John Allen, you're as good as they come, my friend, when it comes to covering this particular issue. We're proud to have you here and happy to be able to get your insight.
By the way, Bill Maher called the Pope a Nazi and a cult leader. Which one is he taking back? That's next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. We are live in Philly where it's all about to happen. And something that's already been happening is this. Conservative critics were saying that comedian Bill Maher really went a little over the top last week in his criticism of the Pope. Maher called the Pope the leader of a child- abusing religious cult and the Bear Stearns of organized pedophilia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MAHER, COMEDIAN/TALK SHOW HOST: I'd like to tip off law enforcement to an even larger child-abusing religious cult. Its leader also has a compound. And this guy not only operates outside the bounds of the law, but he used to be a Nazi and he wears funny hats. That's right. The Pope is coming to America this week. And, ladies, he's single.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Is this just downright insulting? There is a thing as a -- there's such a thing as freedom of speech in this country. But does it get to the point where it's almost abusive?
Let's bring in the panel now. Philadelphia radio host Dom Giordano from WPHD, Donald Kettl, University of Pennsylvania political scientist and E. Steven Collins, host of the radio show "Philly Speaks."
How about it, guys?
DOM GIORDANO, RADIO HOST, WPHT: Insulting. I mean, I'm a Catholic, Rick, and I try to like Bill Maher. I like the show. I like some of the things he tries to do to mix it up. I think the apology might have been worse. He still insists that the Pope was a Nazi youth. And as far as I understand, people have said, yes, that's what you had to do or you'd be executed.
SANCHEZ: Yes, in fact, I think we have that. Let's go ahead and play the apology for the viewers so they can listen to it. See if this kind of brings it back a little bit.
Go ahead, Roger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAHER: You know what? He was coerced into that. He was a teenager. I wouldn't blame any teens. A 14-year-old kid in Nazi Germany. Of course, he's going to do what they tell him to do. So, on that score, you know what my Catholic friends, I will never make the Pope as a Nazi joke again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The Pope is to Catholics just, if nothing else, a symbol of their religion. Most people understand that we're praying to Jesus, not to the Vatican. But to take on that symbol, I guess, the only way to phrase the question is, why? Why, why tee off that many people?
DONALD KETTL, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Well, it's a huge part of his viewership. You got to wonder what's going on here. There's got to be a bigger story about why is it Bill Maher has this kind of manners about stuff. But you have the feeling that the apology came because people didn't laugh.
So, he's going to put on something else that's outrageous. If they had laughed about it, they probably would be so telling the (INAUDIBLE).
SANCHEZ: You mean you think there's something in there that we don't know about?
KETTL: It just feels like something else because it goes beyond what could remotely be viewed as funny.
SANCHEZ: Is the apology enough?
E. STEVEN COLLINS, RADIO HOST, "PHILLY SPEAKS": Well, I'm a Catholic --
SANCHEZ: He's basically saying, OK, OK, he's not a Nazi but --
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, I grew up in a Catholic Church. I wasn't just renting the school. I was an altar boy. I went through the process. We went to bingo on Saturday night. The reality is, though, so many people, beyond those who came forward, were abused and were hurt. And I think it's important that the Pope, this Pope, says it hurts and we feel that pain. There's --
SANCHEZ: I agree with you.
COLLINS: There's -- I mean, there are some more comments that you made earlier, we all -- I mean, that's a part of our history as Catholics in America. So many people have put a distance there. But at the same time, we still believe in our faith, in Jesus Christ. So, there is a disconnect because there's some really bad men who did bad things to children, and then there are supervisors, our Cardinal Law and the other one --
SANCHEZ: And finish the statement. And the Church in many ways knew it was happening --
COLLINS: Knew it was happening --
SANCHEZ: All of us as Catholics have now come to own that.
COLLINS: Which is hard to reconcile, yes.
GIORDANO: I think the fair point, I know with Catholics that call me, is that Bernard Cardinal Law is still sitting in the Vatican. And to a number of American Catholics, the guy is essentially a criminal.
He's the one that oversaw Boston, where things were really out of control. In Philadelphia, we had a kind of mix with the new cardinal, I think, doing some kind of reform. This guy still sits safely over in the Vatican.
SANCHEZ: Turn to politics. American Catholics. Hard to figure out. They voted for Bush. They also voted for Gore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of us.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, hold on. In general --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big numbers, buddy.
SANCHEZ: They turned against Kerry. How do you figure these guys out? Which way are they going this time, professor?
KETTL: Pennsylvania, 30 percent of the electorate in Pennsylvania is Catholic. Which way are they going to go? They ought to be Hillary Clinton voters. And if Hillary can succeed in doing as well as she should, she'll do better than looks like she's going to, but she's had a hard time because it has to do --
SANCHEZ: Why do they ought to be Hillary Clinton voters?
KETTL: They got to be Hillary Clinton voters because a lot of them are working class, middle class --
SANCHEZ: Oh, I see, they fit the model.
KETTL: They're the traditional kind of Bill Clinton voters. But she's had a hard time being able to do the selling on them to be able to keep them.
SANCHEZ: Somebody else was in trouble this week. And, well, he's certainly getting a lot of rap for what he did. George Stephanopoulos worked for Bill Clinton. And then moderates a debate where he hammers Barack Obama, who is the opponent of Bill Clinton's wife.
A lot of folks are saying, yes, it just doesn't look right. They're crying foul. That's Obama. I mean, what is Stephanopoulos and ABC saying? We'll have it for you. And then, talk about issues affecting Pennsylvanians. New record gas prices. More on that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hello again. I'm Rob Marciano. Back to RICK ON THE ROAD in a minute. But first, here's what's making news elsewhere tonight.
The children of that Texas polygamous ranch and their mothers? Well, they will be kept away from each other while all their DNA is tested. That's from the judge who ordered the mass testing to determine once and for all just who is related to whom in that controversial religious sect.
Well, yesterday was the earthquake. Today, the aftershocks. Lots of them. Seismologists have recorded at least 11 tremors since the magnitude 5.2 quake rattled a huge swath of the country from Chicago to Atlanta. Nobody reported hurt. No major damage.
Thirteen years ago today, that's the day 168 people died in the Oklahoma City bombing. The attack remains the single deadliest act of domestic terrorism in U.S. history. A crowd gathered there today at the site of the former federal building and placed flowers on the 168 permanent chairs placed to honor the victims.
A last warning to the government of Iraq. Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr says he will, in his words, declare a war if U.S. and Iraqi forces continue to target his followers. The warning popped up today on a website used by al Sadr's loyalists. At least a dozen people died in the past 24 hours in fighting between coalition forces and members of al-Sadr's militia.
And, do you feel like you're paying more for gas today than you did last week? Well, you're right. Gasoline per gallon is up again. A new record high. AAA reports today the national average is now $3.47 a gallon for regular and for diesel -- don't ask. Those are the headlines. Now we send it back to Philadelphia where CNN is ON THE ROAD WITH RICK SANCHEZ.
