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NANCY GRACE

Texas Begins DNA Testing of FLDS Children and Parents

Aired April 21, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: The single biggest child protective bust in U.S. history all comes down after a secret and desperate phone call for help. The number of children rescued off a secret Texas compound on the rise. Now revealed, that number up to 437 children, 100 women pulled off by the busload from behind the walls of that remote and isolated compound.
Headlines tonight. Unlike anything before, a crime lab on wheels, DNA tests run on every single one of the 437 children. But what about all the moms and dads? Will they submit to DNA testing, or is matching children to biological moms and dads like looking for a needle in a haystack? Tonight: While other jurisdictions turn a blind eye to alleged rampant child abuse behind the walls of these gated compounds, girls as young as age 13 systematically forced to marry and give birth, the Lone Star State braces for legal battle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To protect the privacy of the children, we won`t be able to see the actually DNA testing that`s going on in the San Angelo Coliseum. This is where some 400 children have been living since they were removed from the ranch three weeks ago. They will undergo the DNA testing there. The men and women from the ranch must go into Eldorado and submit to court authorities there to get a DNA swab to get their testing done. The judge in this case has ruled that she`s got to have that because she wants to determine the paternity and the maternity because no one right now is sure which children belong to which parents. Even the lawyers, the 350 lawyers who`ve been volunteering to represent the children, say they don`t know who the parents are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, the search near Salt Lake City for a mom of two who vanishes into thin air -- cell phone gone, car gone. Family says no way would Deborah Jones (ph) suddenly lose contact with relatives or just skip work. Now we learn Deborah Jones desperately dialed police for help just 24 hours before she goes missing. Tonight, where is missing mom Deborah Jones?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An endangered person alert is out for a 50-year- old mom near Salt Lake City, and concerned family members fear the worst. Deborah Jones reaches out to police, reporting harassment by her former live-in boyfriend. Now she`s missing. Family say Jones was dating 47- year-old Michael Doyle (ph) for the past few months. But just two weeks ago, the pair split, and Jones wanted Doyle out. That`s when her son says the harassment began, finding out Doyle has a checkered past. Jones`s gray Volkswagen is missing and her cell phone turned off. Tonight: What happened to Deborah Jones?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Live to Texas, where a rolling crime lab seeks DNA evidence from 437 children, all rescued from a remote Texas compound after a secret call reveals rampant child abuse and the systemic forced marriage on girls as young as 13. DNA matching children to biological moms and dads requires the adult to submit, as well. Is it a long shot?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Texas state workers are busy collecting DNA today from 416 kids removed from a polygamist ranch early this month. They hope to figure out who are the children`s parents and whether any sexual abuse took place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no force here. Everyone has their choice to do exactly what they would like. There is no force. And we want the children and they want us. They are clean and pure, and this is the worst thing that has happened to them. They are learning terrible things just from the questions that are being asked, things that they have never been exposed to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three men who belong to that polygamist sect say they`ll cooperate in DNA testing if it helps them get their children back. One man, identified only as Rulon (ph), tells CBS the men will do whatever it takes to get the children back. Rulon appeared nervous when asked if sex between adult men and adolescent girls constituted abuse, but he was adamant the girls were not forced to do anything against their will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, police are desperately trying to determine exactly where did that call, that 911 call, that emergency phone call to, apparently, a battered women`s center -- who made that call? Was it a hoax?

Let`s go straight out to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent, standing by there at the Coliseum in Texas. Susan, explain to me how this rolling crime lab, so to speak, is going to work. And how are they getting DNA from 437 children?

SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it could be logistically difficult, Nancy, but from what we understand, this rolling crime lab, as you said, by a national, out-of-state company, is going to this Coliseum. They go inside, out of the view of our cameras. They take a cheek swab, a DNA swab inside the cheek from each of the children in there and whatever mothers are in there.

And then, as you mentioned earlier, the judge says, Look, folks, if you want your children back, then the adult men and women from that ranch out in Eldorado have to go into Eldorado, go to the law enforcement center there, and they have to do those DNA swabs, as well. Otherwise, they have no chance of getting their children back. We understand that it may be as much as a month or a month-and-a-half, Nancy, before they have the results of those tests.

GRACE: You know what? Just putting myself in the shoes of those parents, Lillian Glass, if it were me and somebody had the twins, I would be sleeping on the courthouse steps, give them my DNA, the father`s DNA, and I would get my own private DNA test run -- for Pete`s sakes, they sell the tests now over the counter in grocery stores -- to get the kids back pronto! Now! Why wait for a month-and-a-half?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly. You`re so right. And this is traumatizing to these little babies, to these little children. It`s unconscionable, what`s done, because they need their moms. They need their siblings. They need...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a minute. Before you say that`s unconscionable, Lillian Glass, I`m all for parents being with their children. But to you, Michael Board. Let`s follow up on that whole unconscionable thing -- Michael joining us from WOAI Newsradio. What are the moms and dads saying? What are they doing to get their children back? Have all the fathers, the biological fathers, made a line to the rolling crime lab to get their DNA?

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI NEWSRADIO: No way. And we will never know if they all do. Now, the children -- it`s easy to tell if all 437 kids get their DNA tests. That`s great. That`s one part of the puzzle. It`s also easy to get the women because, for the most part, the women have been there with the kids. So in a good shot (ph), they`ll get most of the moms` DNA. Now, the fathers, we don`t know. They could have taken off in the middle of the night and gone back to either maybe, you know, Utah or gone down to Mexico. We`ll never know.

Nancy, need I remind you how this whole thing started? When CPS workers got to the ranch, they immediately went in and said, I`m looking for a woman named Sarah (ph). They told her at the door, There are no Sarahs here. When they got into the ranch, they found four or five Sarahs. It`s lies and deceit from the time they got to the door. Do you think these guys are going to stick around, or are they going to high-tail it out of here, never give DNA samples, and then hope that this whole case falls apart?

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to the lines. Martin in Alabama. Hi, Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. Good afternoon. How`re you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, is it not against the law to withhold your identity to a police officer in the investigation of a felony, such as rape and incest?

GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney and author, Carmen St. George, defense attorney. What about it, Mickey Sherman?

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It may well be, like some type of interfering with the police investigation. But the bottom line is, where are they going to end up in this thing? I mean, I`ve got to believe that there`s, at some point...

GRACE: Wait a minute! There`s no crime...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: There`s no crime for not turning yourself in. Did I just hear you state that it could be a crime?

SHERMAN: No, I said it might be a crime to interfere with any order by a judge. But barring that, I don`t think people have to line up to confess. But my bigger issue is, why separate the mothers from the children? Are the mothers the ones who allegedly committed a crime? I don`t see that.

GRACE: Well, let`s find out. Back to you, Michael Board. The moms have been taken away from the children for a very important reason. The Texas authorities aren`t trying to inflict pain on anybody. Explain why the mothers were taken away from the children and why their cell phones were confiscated at one point.

BOARD: Because they were relaying info to the children and telling some of these teenage women what to tell authorities. They were telling them to lie. Like I`ve been talking about all along, this cult relies on lies and deceit. The men of this group, the so-called leaders, they were using cell phones to call the wives, so the wives could tell the kids exactly what to tell the cops.

Some of the cops all -- some of the kids all along have been telling lies to CPS investigators. They`ll change their names. They`ll change their ages. They`ll change their last name. All along, they`ve been operating in deceit. That`s why they need to be separated, so that the kids will be able to tell investigators a straight story. They`re praying that when they get these kids away from this toxic environment that they`ll finally be able to break free from this child-molesting group.

GRACE: To Flora Jessop, former polygamist and child bride. She is executive director of the Child Protection Project. Why are these children unable to tell authorities who their mo, their birth mom, is, who their birth dad is? What are they being trained or told to tell the police?

FLORA JESSOP, FORMER FLDS CHILD BRIDE: Well, one of the things that you have to understand is that these children have been raised as calves in a stall. When you raise a calf in a stall, the only thing that calf knows is the four walls of that stall. You can let the stall walls down, that calf will continue to stand in that one spot.

But you know, I think it`s important for people to understand that this isn`t being mean to these mothers. To give you a little bit of my story, my mother didn`t protect me. I love my mother. I am trying to find my mother, who has been missing for four years. My 14-year-old sister was raped so brutally that she almost died from the hemorrhaging, and this occurred a couple of doors down from my mother`s bedroom. And when I spoke to my mother, I asked her, Mom, how could you allow this to happen to your baby? And she told me, Flora, you need to leave this alone. This -- Ruby now belongs to Haven (ph), and he`s allowed to do what he wants with her. I can`t step in.

If that`s the kind of protection that my mother is willing to give to my sister, she should not have control over my sister.

GRACE: Joining me right now from Escalante (ph), Utah, is Franklin. He has been exiled from the FLDS church and community. Franklin, thank you for being with us.

FRANKLIN, EXILED FROM CHURCH AND FLDS COMMUNITY: Hello.

GRACE: Franklin, how old were you when you were exiled from the community?

FRANKLIN: I was just about 19.

GRACE: Why were you thrown out?

FRANKLIN: Well, I dabbled in movies, music and alcohol.

GRACE: So you went to movies, you listened to music, and you drank alcohol?

FRANKLIN: Yes. And I associated with girls.

GRACE: Why did that equal you being thrown out of the community?

FRANKLIN: Because it was against the culture. It was against what I`ve been taught my whole life 18 years previous.

GRACE: When -- how long have you been out?

FRANKLIN: Just about five years.

GRACE: When you look back, Franklin, do you still believe in the same rules?

FRANKLIN: I use a lot of those moral standards for everyday living, such as what my mother taught me as far as honesty and integrity. But what I see here on the compound is what it portrays to be is something completely different from what I was taught.

GRACE: Franklin, do you know how many sisters and brothers you have?

FRANKLIN: Yes, about three dozen.

GRACE: Excuse me?

FRANKLIN: Thirty-two.

GRACE: Thirty-two what?

FRANKLIN: Brothers and sisters, siblings.

GRACE: Are your sisters married?

FRANKLIN: Yes, a lot of them are.

GRACE: How young were they married?

FRANKLIN: The youngest I saw married was two weeks previous to 18.

GRACE: And she was married to a man of what age?

FRANKLIN: He was in his mid-30s.

GRACE: Did he have other wives?

FRANKLIN: Yes, he did.

GRACE: Now that you are living on the outside of this community, what is your view of plural marriage or spiritual marriage?

FRANKLIN: Well, I -- I don`t choose to live that lifestyle, personally. I don`t see that it should be banned, as far as children -- or not children, but adults that`s 18 and older, making the decisions they want to in their religious beliefs. But when younger women are supposed to be being forced or what`s going on is that the parents are encouraging it to the point where these girls believe that they can be damned to hell if they don`t. And so that`s why they`re getting married at this age.

GRACE: Franklin, I`ve done research, but I can`t quite grasp some of the beliefs of the FLDS. Do the members of FLDS worship Christ?

FRANKLIN: Yes, they do.

GRACE: Do they recognize Easter?

FRANKLIN: No, they don`t.

GRACE: Why?

FRANKLIN: Well, because they don`t believe that any -- they don`t believe in any other holiday besides April 6, which is Christ`s birthday...

GRACE: OK.

FRANKLIN: ... and Thanksgiving.

GRACE: OK. And Franklin, I was just thinking back on the reasons you were thrown out of the community, because you went to movies, because you experimented with alcohol and you listened to music. If FLDS worships Christ, wouldn`t they accept your complete forgiveness and, like the prodigal son, welcome you from far away when they saw you returning?

FRANKLIN: Yes, if I wanted to.

GRACE: But you were thrown out.

FRANKLIN: They -- "thrown out" wouldn`t be the term. They would be - - it would be more of asked to leave because my behavior wasn`t in accordance to the community standards and rules and...

GRACE: OK. So you were asked to leave, but not thrown out.

FRANKLIN: Yes.

GRACE: OK. All right.

Very quickly, to Rod Parker, attorney for the FLDS, joining us from Salt Lake City. Mr. Parker, thank you for being with us. What is your defense to the allegations that young girls are forced into marriage as young as 13?

ROD PARKER, ATTORNEY FOR FLDS: Well, that`s a very complicated question. They aren`t -- first of all, women are not forced into marriage in this culture. They make -- because the concept of force suggests that the men seek out the women. It`s actually the opposite, that the women determine when they`re ready to marry.

As far as the allegation of 13, the state of Texas has made an allegation with regard to one person based on an oral statement, and if that marriage occurred as they say, it was 10 years ago. That girl, actually, now is an adult, and the state of Texas is threatening to take her children away because of her continued membership in this faith.

GRACE: So you believe, Rod, that Sarah does exist?

PARKER: I do not believe Sarah exists, no.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next day, my oldest girl saw these other girls going down, and so she came to me and says, They`re going to take me. Mother, they`re going to take me. Don`t let them take me. I don`t want to go. And I just told her, Let`s be calm. You`re not going anywhere. You`re right here with me. Let`s stay calm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A DNA crime lab on wheels, trying to test individually every - - over 400 -- every one of over 400 children now in state custody, taken off an isolated compound belonging to the FLDS, allegations that girls as young as 13 systemically forced into "spiritual marriages," then forced to give birth.

With me right now, a very special guest, the attorney for the FLDS. Rod Parker is joining us out of Salt Lake City, Utah. Rod, I thought you said that Sarah, who allegedly made this phone call that brought down this bust, all that occurred 10 years ago, but now you`re saying that she doesn`t exist. So which one is that?

PARKER: The Sarah that they refer to in the phone call, that`s not the same person...

GRACE: OK.

PARKER: ... as the person they say was married. It`s a different person.

GRACE: Rod, what about state allegations that girls as young as 13 enter into "spiritual marriages"? You say they are not forced, but of course, a child that age cannot give consent.

PARKER: No, I understand what you`re saying. And as I said before, according to the allegations of the state -- and I have no way to verify this with all of these people in custody and everything else -- that a person verbally gave a date of birth of herself and children which suggests that she may have been 13 or 14, 10 years ago, 11 years ago -- well, actually, yes, 12 years ago. Anyway, so that`s the allegation. It has to do with a single person. It has to do with something that happened many, many years ago. So to say that it`s systematic, I think that`s an overstatement. I don`t even know if this is true at all.

GRACE: But if her phone call -- Rod, if her phone call is true, or if those facts are true, it is systematic.

PARKER: Well, one incident is not systematic, but more importantly, the phone call that`s alleged came from someone who claimed to presently be 16 years old. This person that you`re talking about is 22 years old.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you`re just trying to get to the bottom of where your children are?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know what they`ve done to them (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell me your name, sir?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My little girl`s name was Marva (ph). She`s such a lovable little girl. She loves school. She`s in 3rd grade. She would come home, Mother, I got an A-plus today. I`d grab her and hug her, Good job, Marva! Good job! She was my only child. These are her clothes right here. This is Marva`s bed. You can see it`s empty, and it`s the hardest thing in the world for me (INAUDIBLE) no little girl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, a rolling crime lab on wheels set to test 437 children for DNA, to try and determine who are biological moms and dads.

To Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio. Why is the state in a position they must determine who`s the biological mom and dad of each of these children?

BOARD: Well, this week -- or excuse me, last week, it was just the temporary custody of these 437 kids. Now we start the real investigation to figure out exactly what happened, and that means finding out the real mommy and daddy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you surprised to see this much attention from both the national media and others for the cause (ph) of your children?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love my children. I want to get them back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FLDS MEMBER: I would expect there was probably 50 to 75 armed officers and CPS workers and whoever, security personnel. And a woman came in and said -- opened up her manila folder and said, "Your children are not yours and you have two options. You can either go back to the ranch or you can go to a woman`s shelter." And I said, "But what about my son?" And she said, "Oh, we`ll take care of him." And I said, "You can`t take care of him. You don`t know how to take care of him. You haven`t been his mother for five years."

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have a picture of you and your children?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I have a lot of them.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have any with you today? That you could just stop and show us?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wasn`t quite expecting this.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I know, but this is about the children, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is about the children.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Even if you don`t talk to us to tell us the name of your children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give us a little bit of time to sort it out in here, please.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you finding that it`s organized inside or a little chaotic?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live as Texas gears up for legal battle. Now, 437 children set for DNA tests to determine who`s the mom and dad. Will it reveal girls as young as 13 years old systemically forced to marry, spiritually, and give birth?

First of all, I want you to hear what some of the dads have been saying, some of the men in the compound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RULON, FLDS MEMBER: I would simply say, if you had a teenage girl that chose to go that way, could you force her to do otherwise? No, you could not. We are not a people of force. We are a people of free agency and peace. Yet, we do not teach our children too have sexual conduct before they are of age.

EDSON, FLDS MEMBER: They look at us as if we are immoral people, and in our own makeup, that is the most important part of our religion, is to be morally clean. It`s -- you know, I have a hard time standing here being a criminal when I had no idea that I`m a criminal. I`ve always strived to be an upright man and my children, my family, everyone that I know of love me. And I love them.

(END VIDEO CLIP

GRACE: That`s from CBS`s "The Early Show." It`s members of Yearning for Zion adamantly denying sex abuse of young girls at the compound.

Out to the lines, Susan in Georgia. Hi, Susan.

SUSAN, GEORGIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I have a question from completely a different direction. Why doesn`t this situation fall under the separation of church and state?

GRACE: Well, very simply, Susan, if that`s used as a defense, acts such as human sacrifice could be allowed under freedom of religion. We don`t allow that, that`s where the state steps in. And the grounds that the state uses is welfare. Welfare, the protection of women and children.

Out to the lawyers. Mickey Sherman, Carmen St. George. Why won`t freedom of religion work on this one?

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE": Well, if you want to hear my point of view, it`s very simple. When child protection is involved, that kind of trumps everything. And I don`t have any great argument with that. My problem is, where does it end? How many mothers are going to lose their kids?

GRACE: Well, maybe just the moms where they are part of systematic abuse of children.

Go ahead, Carmen.

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s what we`re investigating here, Nancy, whether there`s been child abuse. And I think we`ve really got to take into consideration this massive exodus that we`ve taken and where have civil liberties and freedoms gone? I think that sticking a swab into all these children`s mouths and determining paternity at this point has been ordered by the court, but where are we going to go from here?

GRACE: Well, for one thing, we`ll find out if any of the mothers were underage when they were forced into a spiritual marriage, or when they gave birth, Carmen St. George. And to you, both of you, Mickey Sherman and Carmen St. George, the reality is that paternity testing is done every day of the workweek in every courthouse across this country. And I do not see a line of moms and dads lining up, or of dads saying, that`s my kid, and I`ve got to wonder -- out to you, Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent -- where are all the dads? Why aren`t they volunteering to say, hey, that`s my kid, here`s my DNA?

SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I don`t know, Nancy, but I can tell you that you`re right. At the custody hearing that I was in for two days, I would say that the women outnumbered the guys 50 to 1. You saw all the women in their long prairie dresses going in and looking very somber and forlorn. You saw very few men.

Where are the men? That is the big question. Are the men culpable in this? Is that why they`re not there? We don`t know yet. Also I want to add something one more thing to what Franklin said earlier, this exile from Warren Jeffs`s compound. He said, "Yes, we worship Christ," but you know, Nancy, when we took our CNN cameras on to that compound here in Eldorado, we didn`t see pictures of Jesus on the walls, we saw lots of pictures of Warren Jeffs, the disgraced convicted founder, convicted of being an accessory to rape. He still faces rape charges himself.

That`s whom they appear to idolize if not worship, Warren Jeffs.

GRACE: You know, I noticed Susan Roesgen, Susan standing by there at the coliseum in Texas. I noticed when we were seeing the inside of the compound that in the room where the girls had their bunk beds, like dormitory style, up on the walls is Warren Jeffs picture.

And everyone, Jeffs is the spiritual founder of the Yearning for Zion compound. There he is. He`s behind bars right now and he is convicted of conspiracy to force young girls into these spiritual marriages. Several charges of him in spiritual marriages were dropped.

I want to go back to Flora Jessop. Flora managed to escape the FLDS. She`s a former polygamous and child bride.

Flora, what prompted you to get away and how did you get away?

FLORA JESSOP, FMR. POLYGAMIST & CHILD BRIDE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CHILD PROTECTION PROJECT: What it takes to get away from the FLDS is you have to reach a point that the pain and the abuse become so bad in what you perceive as heaven, that you`re willing to damn yourself to hell for eternity. And you know, I was never taught about Christ. I was taught to pray to Jesus Christ, but that was about the extent of my teachings to Jesus Christ.

It was always, worship the prophet and worship your father, because we were taught that our fathers were our gods. As for getting away, you have to run. They hunt you, literally, if you`re female and try and get out. And you know, as a young girl, I don`t remember sitting around when I was 13 years old looking at all the 60-year-old men and thinking, oh, I hope all these guys get to become my proverbial (ph) husband. That`s not how it works. These girls aren`t choosing these perverted old men as their husbands. They`re being forced to marry these men.

GRACE: I want to go to another guest. Joining us tonight, Michelle Benward. She`s the vice president of New Frontiers for Family. She works with former FLDS members.

Michelle, thank you for being with us. Michelle, what does your agency do? And how do you go about doing it?

MICHELLE BENWARD, VICE PRESIDENT, NEW FRONTIERS FOR FAMILIES: Well, we provide a couple of things. The main thing that we do across the company is what we call wraparound services. So it`s a coordinated service for children and families with complex needs. As far as the kids go, what we were able to do is to create a home for them that is the transitional home and a drop-in center. And so we provide food and center for kids that need that and we provide coordinated services which is.

GRACE: Is it mostly boys, Michelle?

BENWARD: Yes. We have about 90 percent boys and then.

GRACE: Are they the boys that are exiled or thrown out of the community?

BENWARD: Yes. Primarily.

GRACE: Why are they thrown out? Why are they thrown out?

BENWARD: Well, the reasons that Franklin stated earlier. The majority of them are thrown out for what their perceived to be bad behaviors, like watching movies or flirting with girls or staying out past curfew. And curfew for them in the community is 10:00. So anything that goes against the dictates of the prophet, they could be asked to leave for.

GRACE: When you say the prophet, who are you referring to?

BENWARD: Warren Jeffs.

GRACE: OK.

To Dean Wideman, DNA expert, forensic consultant. Very quickly, the DNA test is not intrusive whatever so far.

DEAN WIDEMAN, DNA EXPERT, FORENSIC CONSULTANT: Right. They`re collecting the swabs from those cheek cells or the cells inside the cheeks and then they`re just going to use portions of those swabs to extract DNA and generate a DNA profile.

GRACE: And to Don Crutchfield, investigator and author, Don, what about the investigation of the secret documents found there on the compound, the list of families, some men with up to 22 wives. The detailing of 38 families, including many young brides. How will that work? What more can they expect to find?

DON CRUTCHFIELD, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CONFESSIONS OF A HOLLYWOOD P.I.": Well, they need to do a lot more, that`s for sure. And I think, you know, people like Franklin and people like that that`s been thrown out could help come in and identify some of these people. I`m sorry, but I don`t believe a word any one of these people say. As an investigator, somebody won`t even give me their last name, and of course, they got a picture of Warren Jeffs on the wall, you can forget it. And you can forget finding these guys. These guys are gone. The ones that are -- have the most risk.

GRACE: Everyone.

CRUTCHFIELD: .they`re history.

GRACE: .a quick break. But as I go to break, I want to thank all of you for all your well wishes for the twins. But long before they were born, many of you wished happiness for me, and I thank you very much. I know you`ve seen the twins, but tonight on my one-year anniversary, I have so much to be grateful for, on my anniversary, I want to share with you a few shots from this time last year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FLDS MEMBER: We need our children. And they said, "If you don`t make your choice right now, then you`re not going to have a choice." And I said, "Now, wait a minute. Tell me what`s going on. And they told me that if I didn`t do what they said that I`d be arrested. And I took longer than they wanted me to talk to them, so they started, "OK, you don`t have a choice now. You`re just going on this bus."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines, Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.

SHEEBA, ILLINOIS RESIDENT: Hey, sweetheart. I just wanted to add two short things. When will this DNA testing be ready for public release? And also, when they were -- the woman was showing the tour -- gave us the tour of where these girls and little boys.

GRACE: .how come I didn`t see one toy or a toy box? That`s very important in a child`s developmental.

GRACE: Excellent question.

To Susan Roesgen, when do we think we`ll get the DNA results?

ROESGEN: Well, we think that it may not be public, Nancy, but they think that they`re going to release them within 30 to 50 days, about a month, a month and a half.

Got to say something about the toys. We`ve been told by a Warren Jeffs biographer, people who`ve studied his patterns and his rules there that he doesn`t like toys, that he outlawed toys, that the only kind of toys he would let the kids have would be trampolines, and we know for a fact, Nancy, that when those children were taken here to the coliseum behind me, the volunteers who came to help the children and make them feel at home showed them crayons and the kids didn`t even know what a crayon was.

These are children and they don`t know what a crayon is. So there`s obviously some sort of toy situation missing there on that Eldorado ranch.

GRACE: And everyone, there`s the shot that Susan was telling us about, that you just saw of Warren Jeffs up on the wall.

And to you, Flora Jessop when you say they worship the prophet, you`re saying not the prophet of Mormonism, but Warren Jeffs, the guy in jail for conspiracy to have sex with a minor?

JESSOP: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, Warren.

GRACE: OK, that word says it all.

JESSOP: Warren Jeffs actually told the people several years ago that he was Jesus Christ.

GRACE: OK, good to know. Flora, what about the no-toy thing? I had wondered the same thing. Nothing individual at all in their rooms.

JESSOP: Right. And that`s because they live in a very -- such a controlled environment. They are slaves, they work in the fields, they don`t play. Warren Jeffs forbid laughter, Warren Jeffs forbid crying babies, Warren Jeffs -- he controls every aspect of their lives. I have the complete family training tapes where he taught the girls what`s expected of them as mothers and wives. And he teaches these women. Your husband will tell you how to wear your hair.

GRACE: Flora, how old were you when you became a child bride?

JESSOP: 16.

GRACE: Back to Michael Board, WOAI Newsradio, what next? Don`t count on these dads showing up for DNA, because that`s going to reveal how many children they`ve got by how many different women.

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: The ones that have the most to lose, you`re right, they`re gone, they`re long gone. At least, you know, that`s what we`re assuming here. The next is going to be permanent custody of these kids, and that`s going to take a long time.

GRACE: Everybody, let`s switch gears. We want to help find a missing woman. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An endangered person alert is out for a 50- year-old mom near Salt Lake City, and concerned family members fear the worst. Deborah Jones reaches out to police reporting harassment her former live-in boyfriend. Now she`s missing. Family members say Jones was dating 407-year-old Michael Doyle for the past few months, but just two weeks ago, the pair split and Jones wanted Doyle out. That`s when her son says the harassment began, finding out Doyle has a checkered past. Jones`s gray Volkswagen is missing and her cell phone turned off.

Tonight, what happened to Deborah Jones?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Jim Kirkwood with KTKK. Jim, thank you for being with us. What happened regarding her disappearance?

JIM KIRKWOOD, NEWS SHOW HOST, KTKK: Apparently, family saw her last Thursday morning, the 17th, and they haven`t seen her since. By Saturday, they were very concerned and called the police.

GRACE: She`s not the type of person who just doesn`t show up for work, Jim Kirkwood?

KIRKWOOD: She`s alleged to be very meticulous and talking with her family, that`s what they say. So this is extremely unusual.

GRACE: To Detective Bob Eldard, spokesperson for the Salt Lake City Police Department. Detective, thank you for being with us. Do you have reason to believe Deborah was kidnapped?

BOB ELDARD, SPOKESMAN, SALT LAKE CITY POLICE DEPT.: Well, right now all we have is we have a woman who`s missing through, obviously, concerning circumstances. She came in to speak to a detective last Wednesday and complained of some harassment and some threats coming from this gentleman. And.

GRACE: What gentleman?

ELDARD: From Mr. Doyle.

GRACE: Michael J. Doyle?

ELDARD: Correct. Apparently they had been in some relationship and broke it off about two weeks ago. She made some arrangements to come back in and speak to the detectives again on Thursday, and didn`t show up for that. So they attempted to contact her and were unsuccessful.

GRACE: OK.

ELDARD: We were learned by her family on Saturday that she was missing, and like Mr. Kirkwood said, she`s very meticulous and this is very unlike her. However.

GRACE: Joining us -- also right now is Bryan Jones. He is Deborah Jones`s son.

Bryan, thank you for being with us. Are you convinced your mom has been kidnapped?

BRYAN JONES, SON OF MISSING MOM, DEBORAH JONES: Absolutely. This is not her behavior. She doesn`t leave, she doesn`t go anywhere without letting everybody know.

GRACE: And in fact, about 24 hours before she went missing, she called police wanting help to protect her from an ex.

JONES: Right. She has been talking to him for almost a week prior to her disappearance, working with them, regarding this harassment.

GRACE: Why did police send her away and tell her to come back on Thursday, that`s the day she went missing?

JONES: She was supposed to try to get some more information and that hasn`t happened yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: To HEADLINE PRIME`s Glenn Beck. Hi, friend.

GLENN BECK, HOST, GLENN BECK SHOW: Well, if you think that food rationing is something that only happened in our past, let me warn you. It could be part of our present and future. Rice and flour now are at a high demand and short supply, and that is actually causing stores right here, maybe where you live, instituting buying limits. More on that in just a bit.

Then Jimmy Carter says he`s coming home from the Middle East with a peace plan signed by Hamas. Yes, Hamas sees a little differently. And I`ll tell you the one phrase that sums up everything you need to know about Barack Obama. That and more, next.

GRACE: Very quickly to Lillian Glass. What do you make of the disappearance of mom, Deborah Marie Jones?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": One of the things that`s just frightening is that she met him over the Internet, and that`s really scary, because he was not who he said he was. That`s very frightening. So beware.

GRACE: To Bryan Jones, this is Deborah Jones`s son, have you been back into her home?

JONES: I haven`t until this morning but they sealed it off to do some forensics.

GRACE: Did it look as if it had been ransacked, was there forced entry?

JONES: No.

GRACE: Or does it look like someone that had been a key had been there?

JONES: No, there was nothing out of the ordinary.

GRACE: Any activity on her cell phone or her ATM?

JONES: There is, they`re investigating it. Real quick, I want to throw out there, I have a Web site I created for my mom.

GRACE: OK.

JONES: I have a Web site I created for my mom. It`s www.finddebby.com. I just want to get that out there so people know. It`s got fliers and things like that and helpful information.

GRACE: And everyone, the tip line 801-799-3000.

Let`s stop and remember, Army Captain Rowdy Inman, 38, Panorama Village, Texas, killed, Iraq, on a third tour. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart. He also served Desert Storm. A Sam Houston State University grad, loved country music, Astros, his prized Harley. Leaves behind parent Ann and Tony, widow Shannon, daughters Keeley and Casey, son Gary.

Rowdy Inman, American hero.

Thanks to her guests, but most of all to you for being with us tonight. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

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