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Three New York Police Detectives Acquitted in Shooting Death of Unarmed Man; Missing Pilot; Rev. Jeremiah Wright is Back in the Public Eye
Aired April 25, 2008 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Gunned down on his wedding day in a chaotic run-in with New York police. Three cops go on trial, three cops walk out of court free men.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Push comes to shove outside the courthouse in Queens. Critics of the cops and friends of Sean Bell say they wanted justice and they didn't get it.
LEMON: OK. He is not in the pulpit, but Jeremiah Wright is back in the public eye, and he's not backing down. We'll get an earful from Barack Obama's former spiritual mentor.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, live here at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
WHITFIELD: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
And in southern California, we're awaiting official news from a press conference that is expected to begin there in Solana Beach. This after a man allegedly was attacked by a shark and died. We expect to hear more information from this press conference, which is to take place momentarily out of Solana Beach there in southern California.
LEMON: In New York City, outrage and disbelief on the streets, relief in the NYPD. This after three detectives were acquitted today of all charges in the 2006 shooting death of Sean Bell just hours before he planned to be married.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick is in Queens. She's been following this story, and she was there for this acquittal this morning.
And it was really -- I'm not sure if it was surprising, but the outrage factor and the grief that you could see in the people's eyes was something to see, Deb.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly the family of the man who was killed on his wedding day, they were stunned, actually. The three detectives were found not guilty on those charges, manslaughter, assault and reckless endangerment.
When the family of the victim walked from the court, there was silence, this almost smoldering anger that was later summed up by the Reverend Al Sharpton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. AL SHARPTON,: CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST In fact, many of us felt when the jury was waived that we cannot have confidence in a judge/jury. We gave them the opportunity to prove us wrong. What we saw in court today was not a miscarriage of justice.
Justice didn't miscarry. This was an abortion of justice. Justice was aborted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Now, two of the men who had been in the car with Sean Bell during that shooting, they left the court, there was a scuffle that ensued. But really it came down to their testimony.
The judge saying he simply did not believe the prosecution witnesses. He said there were inconsistencies, contradictions, and that there was the motive of some of the witnesses to lie on the stand.
Now, the detectives, all of them, relieved by the outcome of this. Two of them were facing a maximum 25 years on the manslaughter charges. We heard from them for the first time since this whole thing began.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DET. GESCARD ISNORA, CLEARED OF CHARGES IN 2006 SHOOTING: Hi. Good afternoon, everybody.
First and foremost, I'd like to thank the Lord Jesus Christ for bringing this road to fruition, for my family and ours here. Secondly, to the Honorable Judge Cooperman for his fair and accurate decision today. And I'll keep it brief. Lastly, for my family and friends, for their support.
Thank you.
DET. MICHAEL OLIVER, CLEARED OF CHARGES IN 2006 SHOOTING: Good afternoon. I'd like to just say thank you to all my family and friends, my pal Dino (ph) and the D.A., my attorney James Colton (ph) and Steven Cardiganer (ph), and for Judge Cooperman for making a fair and just decision.
DET. MARC COOPER, CLEARED OF CHARGES IN 2006 SHOOTING: I'd like to say sorry to the -- to the Bell family for the tragedy.
I'd like to thank the lord, my savior, for today, because this started my life back.
I'd like to thank the D.A., the president (ph), and the association.
I'd like to thank the attorneys, Paul Martin (ph), Tony Rico (ph), James Colton (ph), Steven Cardiganer (ph). I'd like to thank the guardians (ph) associations president, Victor Swinton (ph), my family, my colleagues.
Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Now, for these three detectives, this is not over. Not by a long shot.
Federal prosecutors have been monitoring this trial, they have said that they will now review all of the evidence to see whether in fact civil rights violations were committed. And if so, additional charges will be brought in federal court.
Also, Nicole Paultre Bell, the finacee of Sean Bell, she has filed a wrongful death lawsuit, along with the two men who were in the car who survived. And that could be worth many millions of dollars, depending on the ruling in that.
So then, of course, the NYPD looking to see whether these detectives will ever carry a gun again. So again, not over by a long shot, but certainly for the family of the man who died, no relief in any of this -- Don.
LEMON: All right. Deborah Feyerick joining us from Queens, New York.
Deborah, thank you very much.
And as she mentioned there, Nicole Paultre Bell, who is the fiancee of Sean Bell, the Reverend Al Sharpton has been representing her and has been an advocate for her, and also the Bell family. He's in the middle of his radio talk show right now. He's going to join us just a little bit later on, in just a few minutes in this hour in the CNN NEWSROOM to give us his personal reaction to this acquittal.
You don't want to miss that.
And certainly you have an opinion on what happened today in New York City. So let's hear it. Tell us. Show us.
Send us your e-mails and iReports. Go to ireport.com and make yourself seen and heard.
WHITFIELD: A 26-year-old Florida man has been missing since the beginning of this month. Well, now there's word of ransom note, and apparently that note has been delivered.
CNN's Susan Candiotti is following this story for us from Miami.
Susan, take it from here.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the motive behind this alleged kidnapping is a complete mystery, according to the FBI, and we're only finding out about this now. But we don't know exactly when that ransom note was delivered. Again, authorities just revealing this information now.
This young man has been missing since April the 1st. His name is Robert Wiles (ph) of Lakeland, Florida, and he runs, according to the FBI, the family's aviation business. They refuel and maintain aircrafts, and they have several locations. It's called National Flight Services. Several locales in Florida, Texas, Ohio, even in Toronto.
And the family said -- the parents, his parents who live in Ohio -- said they first noticed he was missing when they hadn't heard from him in a couple of days. So they reached out, and that's when they discovered he was gone.
Then, the FBI will only say, the family, the parents were sent a ransom note. We know that a demand was made, a demand was made for money, and also a threat was contained in that ransom note. The FBI will not elaborate further on any additional details.
After that, the family, the parents, tried to contact the alleged kidnappers, but then there's been no further communication. So now the parents are holding a news conference. The FBI says that they will now offer a reward to see if that might generate new leads. The FBI says it has been following leads all this time, all the way into the states of Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, even in Thailand because of activities that they said the young man had there.
One more additional note about that ransom note. They say that it was signed in a unique way, but again, authorities won't elaborate. So we'll wait to hear more from the parents of Robert Wiles (ph) to see what further light they might be able to shed on this, as well as the FBI -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right. And we'll have to look forward to that from a press conference a little bit later on?
CANDIOTTI: Yes, that's right. They're supposed to hold a new conference at around 2: 30. So as soon as we get additional information from that in Tampa, we'll let you know.
WHITFIELD: All right. Susan Candiotti, thank you so much -- Don.
LEMON: All right. For the first time since the dust settled in Pennsylvania we've got an idea of how voters in Indiana feel about the Democratic match-up. Well, it is all tied up.
In our new Poll of Polls, 45 percent of likely Democratic voters support Barack Obama, 45 percent back Hillary Clinton. Ten percent haven't made up their minds. Indiana's primary is May 6.
The Poll of Polls is an average of three different surveys all done after Tuesday.
The Reverend Jeremiah Wright is defending the sermons that sparked a political firestorm. He sat down with Bill Moyers of PBS for his first television interview since those hugely controversial clips appeared on the Internet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT, SEN. BARACK OBAMA'S FMR. PASTOR: The persons who have heard the entire sermon understand the communication perfectly. The failure to communicate is when something is taken like a sound bite for a political purpose and put constantly over and over again, looped in the face of the public.
That's not a failure to communicate. Those who are doing that are communicating exactly what they want to do, which is to paint me as some sort of fanatic or as the learned journalist from "The New York Times" called me, a wackadoodle. It's to paint me as something -- something's wrong with me.
There's nothing wrong with this country. There's nothing -- it's policies. We're perfect, our hands are free. Our hands have no blood on them.
And that's not a failure to communicate. The message that is being communicated by the sound bites is exactly what those pushing those sound bites want to communicate.
BILL MOYERS, PBS: What do you think they wanted to communicate?
WRIGHT: I think they wanted to communicate that I am unpatriotic, that I am un-American, that I am filled with hate speech, that I have a cult at Trinity United Church of Christ. And, by the way, guess who goes to his church? Hint, hint, hint.
That's what they wanted to communicate. They know nothing about the church, they know nothing about our present ministry, they know nothing about our food (ph) ministry, they know nothing about our senior citizens' home. They know nothing about all we try to do as a church and have tried to do, and still continue to do as a church that believes what (INAUDIBLE) said, that the two worlds have to be together and that the gospel of Jesus Christ has to speak to those worlds. Not only in terms of preach the message on a Sunday morning, but in terms of the lived-out ministry throughout the week.
MOYERS: What did you think when you began to see those very brief sound bites circulating as they did?
WRIGHT: I felt it was unfair. I felt it was unjust. I felt it was untrue. I felt that those who were doing that were doing it for some very devious reasons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So Moyers' interviews tonight at 9:00 Eastern on PBS.
Well, there are some people who say, you know what? It's not about you, Reverend Wright, and that you should just be quiet until the election is over. Others say it's good that Reverend Wright is seen in a different light besides those sound bites that you see on television.
Well, ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, David Gergen and Roland Martin join us to talk about Wright's explanation.
And of course all the latest campaign news is at your fingertips. Just go to CNNPolitics.com. We also have analysis from the best political team on television. It's all there at CNNPolitics.com.
WHITFIELD: Outrage in New York after three police officers are found not guilty in the death of an unarmed groom-to-be on his wedding day. Was justice served or denied?
We'll pick the brain of a law enforcement expert.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Three police officers -- New York city detectives -- all charged in the shooting death of an unarmed man on his wedding day. All cleared of all charges today. It was a tragic turn of events in November of 2006, and a complicated trial from the very beginning.
Law enforcement and security analyst Mike Brooks joins me now with some insight.
Boy, a lot under the microscope here.
MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Very much so.
WHITFIELD: You know, there is the whole legal observations about what the judge had to do, how he I guess judged the demeanor of the witnesses, and then there's the evidence. But let's talk about what this case, and perhaps even this verdict, means for an already strained relationship between New York police and the community.
BROOKS: I think it's better now than it has been in quite some time. Talking with a lot of people in New York and a lot of my sources, law enforcement officials up there, I think it's better now than it has been. But the next couple...
WHITFIELD: Even with this kind of verdict?
BROOKS: Well, with this verdict, the next couple of days is really going to be crucial to the relationship between police and community relations.
Right now, law enforcement, New York City police, they've got all their officers on standby. There's no mobilization. If there's a crisis in the city they can go from a level one to a level four mobilization.
But, should something occur -- and they're trying to take the pulse of the community right now. Tomorrow's Saturday. No one has to go to work. Reverend Al Sharpton has called for nonviolent civil disobedience tomorrow, so it's going to -- the next two days, time will tell how things do fare out. But, right now the community relations officers are out in the community and they're trying to take a pulse and say, what is going on in Manhattan and Queens, all boroughs? You know, because something could be happen. It could be another incident tonight or tomorrow with law enforcement that could spark some trouble. But right now they're not expecting any.
WHITFIELD: And there's a lot of evaluation of this case -- it has been for now, what, 16, 17 months -- particularly because you're talking about plain-clothes officers, you're talking about 50 bullets.
BROOKS: Undercover and plain clothes officers, right.
WHITFIELD: Right, undercover.
BROOKS: Right.
WHITFIELD: And so kind of put us in the mind of the undercover or the psyche of the undercover police officer or detective. You know, you -- I suppose the feeling is you're going to reveal yourself, you become a greater target once you let everybody know who you are.
BROOKS: Right.
WHITFIELD: At the same time, you have an obligation to identify yourself. Were those things answered in this case?
BROOKS: Let me just point out, detectives are -- they just don't give away those gold detective shields in New York City. You have to earn them by showing that you are a good investigator, you do things by the rules.
Now, in this particular case, one of the detectives who was under cover in there -- because they weren't just there. They never heard of Sean Bell and his friends before. They were there on an investigation of prostitution, drugs and possible guns inside of this establishment. So that's why they were there in the first place.
Now, with that said, while they were there, there was a little -- a little scuffle ensued. One of the undercover detectives heard one of the three say, "I'm going to go get my gun."
WHITFIELD: Right.
BROOKS: So what's he going to say -- hey, wait a minute, who's this guy? He's not supposed to have a gun. He's not a cop. So they followed him to the car, that's when everything -- that's when everything kind of exploded, if you will.
WHITFIELD: And then allegedly there was an attempt to use the vehicle to hit one of the officers.
BROOKS: Right. And then apparently, again, hit a police van twice. And then they believed -- the officers believed that their lives were in danger, and that's why they decided to open fire and to use deadly force. WHITFIELD: And so this judge felt like, based on the testimony particularly, because that's what's been underscored...
BROOKS: Right.
WHITFIELD: ... the judge says the inconsistencies in the testimony, that perhaps there was a disconnect between those set of events right there that you described.
BROOKS: Right. Exactly.
And keep in mind, all this happened within a matter of minutes. And you know, there were undercover officers inside. There were also plain-clothes officers, detectives, outside that were there as their backup. And they're the ones who came around with the van and tried to stop the SUV from leaving. And that's when allegedly the van hit -- the SUV hit that police van at least twice.
WHITFIELD: And whether there was provocation or not, I guess the problem -- the thing that I keep hearing from people over and over again is, but 50 bullets?
BROOKS: Well, that's the whole thing. You know, that seems a lot.
WHITFIELD: Seems?
BROOKS: But when you take the whole...
WHITFIELD: It is. How is it not a lot?
BROOKS: You know, I was in law enforcement for 27 years. I can tell you it does not take very much at all to crank off 50 rounds. If you think your life is in danger and you decide to use deadly force, and that threat -- that perceived threat that you have is not...
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: But wasn't he unarmed?
BROOKS: He was unarmed. But at the time...
WHITFIELD: I mean, that has not been argued any further.
BROOKS: No. He wasn't armed.
WHITFIELD: It is a done deal. Yes, it was agreed he's unarmed. So what is the threat?
BROOKS: But he did say -- the threat? Just like I said before, they said initially, "I'm going to go get my gun." So what does that say?
If I'm an officer and I believe a crime has been committed, is about to be committed, or is being committed, that's probable cause. I'm going to follow this guy out just because of his statement to say, I have a gun. That person's not supposed to have a gun.
So they're going under the assumption that this guy -- that one of these three had a gun and there was a gun in that SUV. They apparently didn't comply with what they told the officers to do after the officers said that they identified themselves as police officers. They did not comply, and that's why they felt they had to use deadly force, because they thought that their life was in imminent danger.
WHITFIELD: We heard the statements from those three detectives say they thought it was a fair, accurate decision, at the time we heard from one of them who kind of revealed his heart is heavy, he's story for the Bell family and he's just started his life again.
For these officers, will being a detective ever be the same? Can they return to what they were doing given the fact they were acquitted but...
BROOKS: This is far from over.
WHITFIELD: This is a deep scar for everybody.
BROOKS: It is. This is far from over.
I think Pat Flynn (ph) from the (INAUDIBLE) today, he said, you know, there are no winners, there are no losers here. And at the end you have a dead man and a grieving widow.
But this is far from over. You have a wrongful death suit by his fiancee that was put on hold in federal court. You've got a U.S. attorney's office investigation to see...
WHITFIELD: It's not over.
BROOKS: ... to see if there was any civil rights -- and they still face possible departmental charges. The department is going to investigate to find out whether or not they violated any kind of departmental regulations and those kinds of things. And so they might come back to work, they may not.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
All right. Security analyst Mike Brooks.
Thanks so much.
BROOKS: Thank you, Fred. All right.
LEMON: Mike, real quick, Pat Flynn, was that the same guy who said, "How do you spell relief?" And it's not guilty? Is that the same guy.
BROOKS: I didn't hear him say that today.
LEMON: There was someone in the news conferences who said, "How do you spell relief?" And he said, "Not guilty." I mean, is that appropriate to say something like that? It just seems like he's exacerbating the situation and just really rubbing salt into the wound when you say something like that.
BROOKS: You know, those are the kinds of things you don't really need to hear. You know, the community doesn't really need to hear that right now.
LEMON: Right.
BROOKS: You know, the criminal justice system, it's the best we have right now. It's the best system we have.
A lot of people don't agree with the verdict. You know, we just listened to Al Sharpton on -- Reverend Al Sharpton on his radio show, you know, saying the criminal justice -- it was an abortion, that kind of -- well, it's the best system we've got right now.
LEMON: Yes. Yes.
BROOKS: You know, so that's the bottom line. Sometimes it goes in favor of the police, sometimes it doesn't go in favor of the police.
WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks, Mike.
LEMON: Thanks very much.
BROOKS: All right. Thank you, guys.
LEMON: And speaking of that, you mentioned what the Reverend Al Sharpton said when he called it an "abortion of justice." Well, the Reverend Al Sharpton is going to come on to the CNN NEWSROOM in just a few minutes. He's going to give us his personal assessment of this acquittal in this.
And also, Mayor Michael Bloomberg in New York City usually holds his weekly -- his press conference this time in a few minutes, and we'll be listening in there to see if he actually says something -- there he is live right now -- if he says something about this acquittal today, about the family. Of course he released a statement just a short time ago.
We're on top of it here.
WHITFIELD: All right. OK. Well, we'll monitor his comments then.
In the meantime, another story that is still kind of igniting a lot of discussions. We hadn't heard much from Barack Obama's former pastor, at least from him directly, post the uproar. Well, we are now. He just spoke very candidly, and we'll talk a little bit more about his defending of his comments and his relationship or lack thereof with Barack Obama.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: All right. Before we get to more politics here, remember the case of that Chinese ship that was carrying weapons and ammunitions that was bound for Zimbabwe and it got stopped in South Africa? And Zimbabwe is still in the middle of a rancorous political dispute over who really won the election now more than a month ago.
Well, now we understand that Angola has given the thumbs up to allow this Chinese ship -- this, according to the AFP, Agence France press, which is now saying that Angola has given the green light for this ship to dock there, unload.
And, of course, we'll try to follow the developments of exactly how, then, those weapons just might be transported into the country of Zimbabwe, which was the original intent. More on that when we get it.
(BUSINESS REPORT)
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the next hour, he has a lot of interests and he usually has a lot to say. He is Ted Turner and I'll be talking to him live on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange and Don, I'm just a little bit nervous.
LEMON: Ted Turner, that name sounds familiar.
LISOVICZ: We know him, we know him.
LEMON: He always has something to say, really.
LISOVICZ: Really.
LEMON: OK, all right, thank you very much ...
LISOVICZ: We'll see you then.
LEMON: ...for that, Susan.
All right, we got to turn now -- Susan Lisovicz is in New York and we're going to continue with this New York theme, a very sad story, obviously the death of a young man here. And now, we're talking about a controversial acquittal here. A judge clears three NYPD cops of all charges and a family, a community, an entire city, they cry foul. The men who shot and killed Sean Bell are free today.
And the Reverend Al Sharpton is joining us for those who, you know, don't accept that decision, and that's what he is talking about now. He's joining us now from Harlem. And we want to thank you because we know that you're in the middle of your radio show.
I got to ask you though real quick. I saw a picture of Nicole Paultre-Bell that was taken just after the judge made his announcement, and I thought she was going to collapse. How is she doing?
REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, she's very, very traumatized, as well as the mother and father, but they will be at the House of Justice at the rally in the morning. They are determined to fight on. We went to the cemetery where they laid flowers on Sean's grave and promised to fight for federal intervention.
I've talked to the chair of the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Conyers and we're preparing to meet with him early next week. Just as we had to go to the federal government to intervene in Louisiana last year in the Jena 6 case, we're going to the federal government to intervene here.
This judge in his statement said things that we think strike at real violation of civil rights, to act as though because one or two of the victims may have had a criminal background that that colored how he heard their testimony is to really rob people of civil rights if they have a criminal background. These are victims. They don't have the right to shoot people because they have a criminal background that they didn't even know at the time they shot them.
There was no crime committed, there was no crime reported, yet they went and came after these young men. This is certainly grounds for a federal review ...
LEMON: OK.
SHARPTON: ...and I believe we will get it.
LEMON: OK, Reverend, let me jump in here real quick because as you were talking about that, they were playing video next to you (ph) and that was Nicole Paultre-Bell at the cemetery right afterwards. She went to Sean Bell's grave site so that she could have some privacy and some free time and some time to collect her thoughts.
OK, let's talk here about those witnesses because we have been told -- we've heard from the detectives, we've heard from their representatives. We've heard from our law enforcement expert here on CNN and security expert, Mike Brooks, who's saying you know what, the evidence is not -- it's just not there. The witnesses weren't credible. They had three, four, five different scenarios, Reverend Sharpton.
SHARPTON: Well, there's only one problem with that. The problem is that the evidence for manslaughter is whether or not one was killed by anyone, in this case police, any way that was unjustified.
They in their own testimony, the police before the Grand Jury, which is the only testimony we have, because they didn't testify at trial, but it was read at trial, said they were shooting at Mr. Guzman, who they thought had a gun, and killed Mr. Sean Bell in the process. That is manslaughter. He's dead, and according to them, he did nothing wrong. Then Benefield, they said didn't even know was in the car.
Now, it's arguable whether or not they had reason to believe that Guzman had a gun. But they themselves said they didn't suspect Mr. Bell, who's dead, or Benefield of anything. But then, when you get to Guzman, they claimed that they thought he had a gun, well, it's arguable whether you can shoot someone because you thought they had a gun.
LEMON: Well, Reverend ...
SHARPTON: And in fact, they ended up not having one.
LEMON: Reverend, they said they felt ...
SHARPTON: This whole case begs a federal review.
LEMON: They felt that their life was in danger. That's what the testimony was, Reverend. Can you hear me?
OK, Reverend Sharpton can't hear me. We'll get back to Reverend Sharpton if we get our connection with that.
But again, we've been telling you about the three officers who were acquitted of Sean Bell's -- in the case of Sean Bell's death in New York City back in 2006. Of course, he was leaving a club, he was unarmed and it was just hours before his wedding. Actually, it was in the wee hours. So, really, it was the same day of his wedding, he was leaving a club there in Queens.
Reverend Al Sharpton, you're back. Can hear me?
SHARPTON: Yes.
LEMON: You can hear me now. OK ...
SHARPTON: I am.
LEMON: We -- they were saying that they felt threatened, one of them said he was going out to his car to get a gun, the other one was driving a car towards one of the officers. So, they're testifying and they're saying that they felt their life was in danger and therefore, their actions were justified. How do you -- how do you go up against that?
SHARPTON: Well, how do you explain the fact that there was no gun, there was no crime? If someone approached you, Don, at 4:00 in the morning when you were leaving a club there in Atlanta, if someone walked over to you undercover, never identified they were a cop with a gun drawn, you'd pull off too, you'd think you were being car jacked.
So, the question is now before the federal government, whether their civil rights was violated. The policemen do not have the right to just walk up unidentified on someone and expect them not to react.
LEMON: Right.
SHARPTON: They clearly would not have pulled off if they thought they were cops. They had nothing to pull off from. They didn't have a gun, they weren't committing a crime. Why would they have run from the police? The only reason they moved is because they didn't know they were police.
LEMON: OK, Reverend, I got to ask you this. I know you've got to go back to your radio show. But one more question and that is really, what are you saying to the people of New York City, to the people who are outraged all around the country? Because as we know, New York put more officers out on the street expecting violence, and they still expect maybe violence can erupt there. What's your message to people about that?
SHARPTON: We first of all have never advocated and wouldn't condone violence, there was no violence in the whole fight for this.
LEMON: OK.
SHARPTON: There's never been violence in any of these cases. The only violence is when police shoot 50 times at unarmed people and say, we thought they had something.
LEMON: OK, Reverend.
SHARPTON: We're sorry. We're not going to charge them with anything.
LEMON: All right.
SHARPTON: That's the violence we're worried about, police violence.
LEMON: I'm being told by my producers that your producers are saying you've got to get back to your radio show.
Reverend Al Sharpton, much appreciated. Thank you very much, sir.
SHARPTON: Thank you, Mr. Lemon.
WHITFIELD: Well, he's been a lightning rod in this year's presidential race. Now, Barack Obama's former pastor defends his fiery sermon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, in Southern California, we're awaiting a news conference to begin because of what is believed to be a fatal shark attack. Witnesses say that a man somewhere between 55 and 60- years-old who was swimming, training with a group of triathletes there in the Pacific at Solana Beach was actually bitten by a shark bitten below both knees, and then later died right there on the beach.
You're looking at a live shot right now of the press conference that is to begin momentarily. When it happens, we'll be able to take that for you live there in southern California.
LEMON: In the meantime, let's talk some politics. Barack Obama's former pastor says publicizing his sermons was unfair and devious. The Reverend Jeremiah Wright is speaking out in his first TV interview since clips of his fiery sermons made headlines. Wright sat down with Bill Moyers for an interview airing tonight, 9:00 Eastern on PBS.
Here's some of their conversation. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WRIGHT: The persons who have heard the entire sermon understand the communication perfectly. A failure to communicate is when something is taken, like a sound bite for a political purpose, and put constantly over and over again, looped in the face of the public. That's not a failure to communicate.
Those who are doing that are communicating exactly what they want to do, which is to paint me as some sort of fanatic, or as the learned journalist from "The New York Times," called me -- a whackkadoodle. It's to paint me as something -- something is wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with this country. It's -- policies.
We're perfect. Our hands are free. Our hands have no blood on them. That's not a failure to communicate. The message that is being communicated by the sound bites is exactly what those pushing those sound bites want to communicate.
MOYERS: What do you think they wanted to communicate?
WRIGHT: I think they wanted to communicate that I am unpatriotic, that I'm un-American, that I am filled with hate speech, that I have a cult at Trinity United Church of Christ. And, by the way, guess who goes to his church -- hint, hint, hint.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Joining me now from Boston, CNN's senior political analyst, Mr. David Gergen.
Hello, David.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hello there.
LEMON: And in Chicago, CNN contributor, Roland Martin.
OK, guys.
I've got to tell you this, Roland. My mentor, who's African- American, called me last night when you were on CNN, and both of you guys were on CNN, and he said, I cannot believe this. Why doesn't Jeremiah Wright just shut up? This is a selfish act and he's putting himself before Barack Obama and he says, literally, "that he's ruining the greatest happening in American history by not just keeping his mouth closed" -- Roland?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well look, I've asked the people on my radio show said the exactly same thing today. Then I had those people who said that this is a man who has preached for 36 years and he has literally had his ministry destroyed before our very eyes.
You know what, Don? You and I are not in his position. Your mentor is not in his position. So it's a natural instinct for people to want to defend themselves. I get that. What I also understand -- that this is certainly his member, somebody who is running for president. But you know what -- unless you're walking in somebody's shoes, you don't know how to respond.
LEMON: And Roland -- I understand that. But November, can't he at least wait until the convention to speak out? He's had people who have defended him, members of his church --
MARTIN: Don, that's his call. Don, Don, Don -- it's not your call. It's not my call. I've said the exact same thing. OK. I've said that I don't think he should appear before the Press Club. That is -- if you give one interview, let it speak for yourself, but that's his call.
OK. But again --
LEMON: David Gergen?
MARTIN: My reputation has not been attacked and demeaned the way his has.
LEMON: David Gergen, do you agree with that?
GERGEN: I certainly agree with Roland that it is his call, and if Reverend Wright feels that he's been demeaned, he's been caricatured, he's been vilified in a variety of ways. You're a former Marine who has been treated as if he un-American and hates the country -- it's certainly understandable that he would want to defend himself.
But I -- having said that, I don't think it's unfair to also say he's doing a disservice to Barack Obama and to the cause that Barack Obama represents by speaking out now, by breaking his silence. I believe he could have waited. By speaking -- this interview hasn't even aired yet and it's the second day that politics --
LEMON: It's the lead story on --
GERGEN: -- is dominating the -- and bringing back to life and giving all of the people who do not have Barack Obama's best interest at heart on television a chance to go loopdy loop (ph) with all these different pieces again. This was a story that was very much in the profound interest of his former parishioner to see die away, and he's now fanning the flames.
I do think it's a selfish act; I think it's narcissistic. He should have held his fire, defended himself, at a more appropriate time.
LEMON: OK.
And I understand what you're saying, Roland, and many of us if we're the media --
MARTIN: But Don --
LEMON: Hang on, hang on, hang on. Listen -- MARTIN: Well I agree.
LEMON: We're in the public eye and we're misquoted many times, lots of things we've said are taken out of context and sometimes by saying things you draw more attention to it.
MARTIN: Of course.
LEMON: And I think that's what people are trying to say.
All right. Let's move on here and talk about when he said that he never talked about politics with Barack Obama, that he only talked about -- about faith and matters, spiritual matters.
Let's take a listen to that and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOYERS: In the 20 years that you've been his pastor, have you ever heard him repeat any of your controversial statements? Has his opinion --
WRIGHT: No, no, no. Absolutely not.
I don't talk to him about politics. Here at a political event he goes out as a politician and says what he has to say as a politician. I continue to be a pastor and speak to the people of God about the things of God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK.
Roland, I've known you what -- 2003. We both went to Chicago about the same time. We'd known each other for four or five years. We've talked about religion, we've talked about politics, and not just on television, together, on the phone, or what have you.
You mean to tell me that in 20 years you're not going to talk about religion and politics if someone this your spiritual mentor?
MARTIN: But Don, I could use an example. I actually joined Friendship West-Baptist Church in Dallas, with Fredrick Douglas Haynes. I don't recall us talking about politics.
Ralph Douglas West, Brookhalllow Baptist Church in Houston, he and I talk a lot, I call him all the time. We talk about prayer, we've talked about religion. The only reason I talk about politics with my pastor in Chicago, Reverend James Meeks, is because he's a state senator.
LEMON: Right.
MARTIN: And so I get that. My wife is an ordained minister, we don't talk about politics.
LEMON: Roland, hey -- I hate to cut you off, but we have to get -- we're going to hold you and David. This is not the end of this.
But we've got to get to some breaking news.
MARTIN: OK.
LEMON: Hang on one second, guys.
WHITFIELD: To southern California now and that press conference involving the swimmer who was attacked by a shark and died.
Let's listen in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in the water. And then, at the very end, we'll have an expert come up on sharks. So that will be the course of events.
With that, the mayor of Solana Beach.
JOE KELLEJIAN, MAYOR OF SOLANA BEACH: Thank you.
My name is Joe Kellejian. We're all shocked and dismayed at the event that happened here this morning. Just a very short comment. We ask you, the public, please, to, not only here in Solana Beach, but throughout the North Coast region and in San Diego County, please listen to the public safety announcements, please get the information needed in the next few hours and the few days to come.
This was a very, very important and serious issue. Although we don't want people to panic, we do want them to listen to the public safety officials.
Thank you.
QUESTION: Can you spell your last name?
KELLEJIAN: Yes. My first name is Joe, last name is spelled K-E- L-L-E-J-I-A-N.
ROB HILL, FAMILY FRIEND OF VICTIM: Morning.
My name is Rob Hill, I'm a friend of the family. The family asked that I just give a quick statement to you all. Dr. Dave Martin was a retired veterinarian, 66 years of age, a Solana Beach resident since 1970. He leaves behind a family and a lot of friends that loved him.
All that the family asks is that you respect their wishes to give them some time to grieve and leave them alone for a little while and they'll be putting out any statements in the future a little bit later.
That's all. Thank you.
CHIEF DISMAS ABELMAN, DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF, SOLANA BEACH: I'm Dismas Abelman; I'm the deputy fire chief. At approximately 07:00 hours this morning, fire, paramedics and lifeguard medical assistance was requested at Tide Park in Solana Beach.
Upon arrival on scene, they found the victim being pulled out of the water by fellow swimmers. The severity of the injuries was apparent. The fire captain on scene immediately called for an air ambulance to respond. The air ambulance was directed to land at -- here at Fletcher Cove Park.
The patient was placed in the back of a lifeguard truck and transported to this location by medical personnel with medical treatment taking place. The air ambulance got on scene and they confirmed with the paramedics on scene, and at 07:49 this morning, the victim was pronounced dead.
The victim was dead from an attack from a large marine animal, a shark attack. It was apparent of injuries -- severe injuries to both of his legs was the result.
I'm now turning this over to Marine Safety Captain, Craig Miller.
CRAIG MILLER, MARINE SAFETY CAPTAIN: So far what the lifeguards have done, they have cleared everybody out of the water. What we're doing now is posting a 72-hour advisory to keep everybody out of the water. We've done this with other jurisdictions from Torrey Pine State Beach, all the way north to South Carlsbad State Beach -- all the way to -- so that advisory will be posted until Monday.
We also have air support that's going to be coming in, Astria (ph) the law enforcement, will be patrolling the area, the skies, to try and see if they can find anything up in the air until 6:00 tonight. They'll be returning tomorrow again at 8:00 in the morning to do their patrols, as well as Sunday.
Once again, this advisory is going to last until Monday morning.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIC)
MILLER: We're starting from Torrey Pine State Beach south, all the way to South Carlsbad. I guess an area of about eight mile- stretch.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIC)
First name is Craig, C-R-A-I-G.
PROF. RICHARD ROSENBLATT, PROFESSOR EMERITUS, SCRIPPS INSTITUTION: Hi, I'm Richard Rosenblatt. I'm a professor emeritus of Marine Biology at Scripps Institution of Oceanography, and I was called to come up here because I know quite a bit about sharks and have dealt with other shark attacks.
And I would say from my examination of the wounds on the victim and also the narrative that I got about how the attack happened, that this almost certainly was a great white shark. It was typical great white shark behavior to attack from below, make a bite and then draw away.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIC)
ROSENBLATT: Sorry.
And -- difficult to say how big the animal was, but I would say it had to have been between 12 and possibly 16 or 17 feet, which is an adult white shark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With that, we can open it up for questions.
QUESTION: Professor, can you come back up? Can you tell us a bit about -- from studying these, what would lead them to come here? What brings (INAUDIBLE)
ROSENBLATT: Well, from our current knowledge, we think that there's not really a resident population of white sharks in this area, but that the females come down from the north to pop (ph), that is to give birth, and then go back. So there are always going to be white sharks in the area.
They also -- they're great swimmers. They've been tagged off Monterey and turned up in Hawaii. One was tagged in South Africa -- turned up in Australia. So they do swim through this area.
QUESTION: Dr., can you describe what happened, in terms -- if you see a shark attack (INAUDIBLE)
Can you describe (INAUDIBLE) what happened here?
ROSENBLATT: I was told that the victim was pushed up out of the water in a violent attack. And that's just typical of the white shark feeding behavior. That is, they normally feed on seals and they attack from below, make a tremendous, powerful rush, make a very powerful bite, then pull away, wait for the seal, or other marine mammal, to bleed to death and then come back. And so that sounds like what a white shark will do.
Also, from the wounds, which were really quite clean and massive, it looks like what a white shark wound would look like. I'm hoping that -- that autopsy -- they might find some tooth fragments, which will enable us to positively identify the shark.
QUESTION: How unusual is it for an attack this close to shore? How rare is it for sharks to be 150 yards off in this type of area?
ROSENBLATT: Well I can't say in this type of area, because it almost never happens in this type of area. Shark attacks in southern California are very rare.
But, no, I would say it's not unusual to be 100, 150 yards offshore. I understand the water was possibly 20 to 30 feet deep. The only thing that's perhaps a little unusual was that it was out over a sandy bottom, and typically the white sharks tend to hunt over more of a rocky bottom where they're camouflaged.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
ROSENBLATT: Maybe we'll wait for the airplane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's asking --
ROSENBLATT: I heard it.
Well, as I said in the beginning, the female's come down to give birth, and also white sharks range from north of San Francisco down -- they're found at Guadalupe Island into in the Gulf of California, so it's not that unheard of that they would be in this area.
QUESTION: I heard it was (INAUDIBLE)
ROSENBLATT: I don't know anything about this report, and two or three feet is too small to be a white shark.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: What are the chances, honestly, of them finding this shark?
ROSENBLATT: The chances of finding this particular shark are probably pretty slim.
Somebody else asked me -- repeat that.
QUESTION: What would cause a white shark to attack (INAUDIBELE)
ROSENBLATT: Well, we think it's mistaken identity.
Remember, the white shark hunting method is to be down relatively close to the bottom and looking up for silhouettes, and then coming up and attacking a seal. And a human swimmer is not too unlike a seal.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
ROSENBLATT: No, this was, as I understand it, a group of swimmers who were on a conditioning swim. So --
QUESTION: Based on what you're saying, you're pretty sure this was a female shark?
ROSENBLATT: No, not at all. Because I said that the females come down to give birth, but that doesn't say that the males can't be found in this area too.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
ROSENBLATT: No, no, no. The females -- in sharks, females typically get bigger than males.
QUESTION: Are you saying this is a case of mistaken identity for the shark to think this was a seal -- given that behavior, is there any reason for the general public to be concerned with getting back in the water once the 72-hour (INAUDIBLE) ROSENBLATT: Well, I'm not going to advise people whether they should go swimming or not. That's a decision they'll have to make for themselves.
QUESTION: There are unconfirmed reports saying there were a lot of sea lions in the area where these guys were swimming. What does that say to you?
ROSENBLATT: Well, it says that sharks pray on seals, and if there were seals here, there was a shark, and the shark was here.
I can't --
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
ROSENBLATT: Well it goes after something that looks like a seal to it.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
ROSENBLATT: Oh, back in -- I think it was '94 when the body, and I can't remember the name, was found floating off Ocean Beach -- off the Ocean Beach pier and the coroner's office and I decided that her leg had been severed and that probably a white shark had done that.
But there was -- it could not be determined whether that was postmortem, actually was the cause of death.
QUESTION: Professor, without getting too gruesome, could you describe the injuries on this man? Both legs, below the knee.
ROSENBLATT: I would rather not do that, I'm not a medical expert. .
QUESTION: Captain, can we get you for a few questions?
Can you just again take us through the course of the morning for you, when the call came in, what (INAUDIBLE)
MILLER: This morning -- it was approximately 7:30 this morning, the fire department responded, there was a lifeguard already on scene when two of the swimmers had brought this victim back to shore. From there, the fire department, they contacted air support to transport this person, however, they declared him at the time and did not transport. So, we took action and closed our beach at that time, got everybody out of the water.
