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Ballot Bowl 2008

Campaigning Continues in Indiana and North Carolina

Aired April 26, 2008 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ACOSTA: Welcome to another round of BALLOT BOWL '08. I'm Jim Acosta in Anderson, Indiana. Where Barack Obama is right now in the middle of firing up a crowd here inside Anderson High School. We are inside of a high school cafeteria as Barack Obama is taking questions from some voters here who were on hand. In the interest of not offending the audience here we're going to abbreviate our opening remarks and make it, suffice to say that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are in the middle of a game of one on one here in the Hoosier state. Hillary Clinton just wrapped up an event in South Bend, Indiana. For now, why don't we dip into this event happening right now behind me? Barack Obama talking to Hoosier voters here in Anderson, Indiana.
BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Teachers will try to work to help them catch up, but once a kid's behind, it's hard for them to catch up and once they get to around third grade, they start recognizing that they're behind. Kids aren't stupid, even if they're not well educated, and they'll push away, because kids don't like being made a fool of. They don't like looking stupid. So they'll stop trying. Once they stop trying, you've lost them. So we've got to invest in early childhood education. Not just pre-k but working with at-risk parents to make sure that they are getting the kinds of help they need. That's step number one.

Step number two, we have to pay our teachers more. We have to pay our teachers more. Now, I also think that we have to work with our teachers to provide more effective professional development in training. We're going to need over a million new teachers as the baby boom generation retires. The nice thing is, everybody who raised their hands were all young. I tell what you -- no. I mean the fact is that, you know, baby boomers are starting to retire. That's a whole teaching core that we've got replace. We have to use this as an opportunity to provide teachers with better preparation, better mentoring.

We should match master teachers with less experienced teachers when they get in the classroom. Usually teachers leave in their first five years. When they stop teaching, they feel overwhelmed. And, you know, as we're paying them more we should expect more of our teachers. But here's the catch, though. It shouldn't be based on just a single high-stakes standardized test. That's the problem with No Child Left Behind. The way No Child Left Behind works is, you know if a kid comes in and he's three years behind at the end of the school year one year behind that school is labeled as having failed. That doesn't make any sense. The school did a good job, caught up two years.

You've got to take into account where kids are starting, and you've got to make sure that you're coordinating with teachers and educators to figure what's the best way to assess student progress? We need high standards but I don't want teachers teaching to the test, because I want our kids learning art and music and science and civics and history. I want them to be interested and engaged and inspired.

And the last point I would make about education, I think we need to think about how our high schools work. The reason is this. Because -- there are a lot of kids who come, say come into ninth grade. They, maybe they're artistically inclined. They want to be a graphic designer, but they may go through four years of high school and never tap into that interest whatsoever. Or they might be mechanically inclined and want to be a mechanic, or a welder or what have you, there's no connection between what they're learning in school and a possible job in the real world. So what I want to do is to say, let's redesign our schools so that kids are still getting the basics they need in class, but let them apprentice with a business early on to start getting a trade. Getting a skill that that will allow them to succeed.

And that same principle applies to college. I said I want to give a $4,000 tuition credit to every student every year. I don't want that just for the traditional four-year college student because a lot of young people these days, they're going to work, they might go to community college for two years, then work for five years, then realize they need some retraining. They should be able to use that tax credit later in life; maybe they've got a family at that point. Maybe they're going to go to take night classes, but that kind of lifelong learning has to be part of what is built into our educational system so that we're helping people continually retrain for the jobs of the future.

All right? I know that was a long question, or long answer, but it was a long, big question. Gentleman right there?

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): Thanks for coming today, by the way.

OBAMA: Absolutely.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): I -- my name is Mike. I had the pleasure of speaking with a senior health care advisor a couple weeks ago for Senator Clinton's campaign and I asked her what they thought the V.A. health care system and what they planned to do to fix what's broken in that system.

OBAMA: Right.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): The response that I got was, well we think the V.A. system is pretty good. And as a, both a veteran and a reserve officer right now in the navy, I kind of will to -- keep my mouth shut to that answer, but I'd like to hear what you're reflections on that is.

OBAMA: You know, first of all, thank you for your service. Number one.

ACOSTA: There's Barack Obama answering questions about veterans' health care and education here in Anderson, Indiana. He's not the only Democratic candidate running for president here in Indiana today. Hillary Clinton is also making her appeal to Hoosier state voters. She was up in South Bend, Indiana earlier today where she was accompanied by her chief surrogate in the state, Senator Evan Bayh and to that crowd, Senator Clinton talked about some of the rhetoric that has been flying back and forth in this campaign. Hillary Clinton has been taking aim at Barack Obama's catchphrase, yes we can, and here in this upcoming sound, that we're about to play for you, she says there's more that is needed in Washington than just talk about change. Here's Hillary Clinton earlier today in South Bend, Indiana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is no doubt in my mind that despite the rather daunting challenges we face in the nation, we are up to it. We are Americans. You know, we are the people who keep moving towards a better future. Break down the barriers and obstacles to human progress. Create innovate, imagine, and then pass on those blessings and accomplishments to our children and our grandchildren. Expecting them to continue that forward movement of progress.

We are at risk of breaking that chain of progress. We stand at a point where there is nothing guaranteed that will make it an absolute promise that American dream will continue unless we choose to act now to make sure that we can see the progress continue. In order to do that, we need a vigorous debate in this election about what direction we should be heading. And what the various solutions are that we would offer to the people of our country. I've been very specific across Indiana and America to talk about solutions, because my campaign is about solutions not speeches. It is about working to make the changes that we know we must have.

If change were so simple, if it could just be wished into existence, Evan and I would be the happiest people you could find. Because we work every day against some pretty tough odds to try to make a difference, and we know how hard it is. Politics is the process by which we choose our leaders to make decisions, but it doesn't end in there. Every one of you have your own opinions. You're members of groups and organization, labor union. You work for certain kinds of businesses. You have an idea of what you want to see happen. We have to hammer out a consensus. We have to come to a majority opinion. And then we have to execute.

So it's important that when someone comes to you asking for your vote you assess what it is that person tells you. He or she wishes to do. And so I have been very specific. On the economy, I've made it clear that we have to end the unfairness in our tax codes. The counter productivity that would give a single penny of your tax dollars to any company that moved a job out of South Bend, out of Indiana, to a foreign country. That makes absolutely no sense. And how unfair is it that a Wall Street money manager making $50 million a year would pay a lower percentage of his income and taxes than a teacher or a nurse or a truck driver right here in South Bend makes less than $50,000?

And we need a 21st century trade policy, because what we had in the 20th century no longer works in the 21st century. I have said that we will renegotiate NAFTA. We will have poor labor and environment standards that will be enforceable; because any time we do business with someone else we should try to make it a win-win. You sell something, you buy something, and we both should be satisfied. But what has been happening with our trade agreement is that we open up our markets and nobody else opens up theirs, as broadly and widely as we do. I'm finished with that.

As your president, I'm going to say, I believe in trade. But let's make sure we do have a level playing field where when we trade with you, you are going to follow the same rules, and have the same beliefs about what we're trying to accomplish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: There you have it. Hillary Clinton talking about the issues of trade and also taking issue with Barack Obama's message of change there in South Bend, Indiana. We should note that at this Barack Obama event just a little while ago, about half hour ago, during his remarks to this big crowd here, Barack Obama talked about the rhetoric that's been flying back and forth in this campaign. He called it the tid for tat in this campaign and said he resisted getting into that during the course of this campaign and said he's going resist it as president of the United States. Got a big applause here in Anderson, Indiana.

Coming up after the break here on BALLOT BOWL on CNN we'll size up the race as it stands right now with CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider. That's coming up after a break. This is BALLOT BOWL on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Welcome back to BALLOT BOWL on CNN. I'm Jim Acosta in Anderson, Indiana, where Barack Obama is currently taking questions from Hoosier state voters about the various issues facing the people of this state, and my apologies for sounding like I am coming to you from the masters. Barack Obama is not on the 18th hole, but Bill Schneider is standing by now, he is getting ready to tee off for us, our senior political analyst. Bill I appreciate you joining us. Let me get straight to this. This is a different kind of race that we're seeing here in Indiana than we've seen in past states in that things are just so darn dead even.

BILL SCHNEIDER, SENIOR POLITICIAL ANALYST: That is right. Nobody has the advantage there in Indiana. It's a state that borders Illinois, which is Barack Obama's home state, about 20 percent of the voters of Indiana watch Chicago television. To them, Barack Obama is a local, and take a look at our poll of polls. These are the three latest polls taken in Indiana. If you average them, it's Clinton 45, Obama 45, with 10 percent of the voters still unsure. Jim, you can't get any closer than that.

ACOSTA: And, Bill, speaking of getting close, the delegate count is tightening a smidge in that Hillary Clinton was able to narrow the gap somewhat after Pennsylvania. The delegate count 1724 for Obama, Hillary Clinton, 1589. The delegate math remains difficult for Hillary Clinton, and if she can't pull off a win in either Indiana or North Carolina we're going to hear that pressure again for the senator from New York to bow out.

SCHNEIDER: That is right. The two big contests on May 6th, Indiana and North Carolina. If either candidate wins both contests, then there's going to be, I think, you'll see the super delegates begin to move towards the winner of both of those contests. If Hillary Clinton wins Indiana and North Carolina, North Carolina would be an unexpected victory for her. I think it looks like she's broken through Barack Obama's stronghold. If Barack Obama wins Indiana and North Carolina, I think super delegates will conclude there's no way Hillary Clinton can do it. Of course it is entirely possible that Barack Obama will win North Carolina, and Hillary Clinton will win Indiana. In which case where right about where we are now.

ACOSTA: And, Bill, one thing we saw in Pennsylvania in the case of Barack Obama is that he struggled somewhat connecting with blue collar working class voters. We saw that outing at the bowling alley that didn't go so well. Last night here in Indiana we saw Barack Obama playing basketball, which goes over awfully well in Indiana and in North Carolina, and it seems as if the Obama campaign is perhaps conceding to the point that maybe perhaps they need to tweak his image and how it's presented to the public out here.

SCHNEIDER: He did not do well and he's not really done well in most states. Well in some states, in many states, like Pennsylvania, he's not broken through. He did carry them in Virginia and Wisconsin. A lot of the large industrial states he's had trouble and of course she's had a lot of trouble with African-American voters as well. They're Democrats as well and she hasn't done particularly well with those voters.

The question is, is demography destiny in this race? Is either candidate able to break through the other voters base supporters? That's why this race is in a stalemate. We're waiting to see, particularly in Indiana. These are candidates that make significant gains and show momentum.

ACOSTA: And our embedded producer with the Obama campaign, Chris Welch, Bill, just notified us that Barack Obama has decided at least at this point that he is not going to participate in anymore debates prior to the votes in Indiana, North Carolina. Since we are in the Hoosier state and they are crazy about basketball here, is this a case of Barack Obama running out the clock?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the last debate wasn't so terrific for him. He was put on the spot, he was thrown on the defensive by the moderators by Senator Clinton and I think his view is, they've aired their differences on the issues. So if the debates continue they're going to dwell on personal differences. Personality, character, past associations. That, he thinks, is a distraction for the voters. He'd rather use the time to campaign and in Indiana, if you play basketball that is a basketball crazy state. Remember the film "Hoosiers." So that may be the best way to campaign to them.

ACOSTA: Yeah. That's right. I can almost hear David Axelrod (ph) off in the corner saying don't get caught watching the paint dry, Barack! Exactly. Running the picket fence as it were here in the Hoosier state. Bill Schneider, thanks very much we appreciate it.

And coming up after the break here on BALLOT BOWL on CNN, we're going to check on the Republican side of things with John McCain who had a few choice words for President Bush down in New Orleans. That's coming up after a break. This is BALLOT BOWOL on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Welcome back to BALLOT BOWL on CNN. I'm Jim Acosta in Anderson, Indiana. Keeping tabs on this Barack Obama event that is happening behind me. But in the meantime, I want to switch gears and head down to the Gulf Coast where John McCain was making his pitch to African-American voters down there who are very upset with the response to the disastrous hurricane that hit that part of the country, hurricane Katrina back in 2005 and John McCain acknowledged, which was a very poor response from the government down there, so here's John McCain talking to voters down there about Katrina. The difficult challenge that still exists down there for the folks who live along the Gulf Coast and he also talked about the economy. The foreclosure crisis which is affecting folks down there just as much as it is across the country. So here's John McCain down in New Orleans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Americans are hurting, hurting badly. Tonight families will be sitting around the kitchen table trying to figure out whether they're going to be able to stay in their home. Whether they're going to keep their job. Some of them, some 250,000, roughly, have had a recent and sudden loss to their job. So, please, understand that America is in trouble, and the American families are facing enormous difficulties. Then again, I have to come back around. Now, there's some who believe that raising taxes on anybody is the way to obtain more revenues.

I believe that history shows that when you cut taxes, in fact, facts are facts on this "quote "capital gains taxes. You're talking about the very rich, nobody is more unhappy with the behavior of these people on Wall Street that have taken advantage. That's why I have called for an investigation on this sub prime lending deal that clearly I think there were abuses, but there are 100 million people that somehow have an investment in the capital gains, because they have a pension or they have investment in a mutual fund or something like that.

It's 100 million Americans. I don't think they need their taxes increased. Not 100 million Americans. Not talking about the very rich. I'm talking about average citizens. And there are many small business people now that file their income taxes as individuals rather than as a business. Yet they will see an increase in their taxes. The last thing I want, on earth, is to see small business people have an increase in their taxation. We want more small businesses. We want small businesses to grow and flourish. That's the heart of America's economy. So I understand your point, and I understand that there isn't, maybe a sufficient fund, sufficient funds devoted to education and training programs.

I'm for those, but the way to provide those funds is a growing economy. We're in a recession right now, at least certainly every indicator is, and right now, then the economy is hurting and we don't get those revenues in to pay for those programs exactly of what you want. Now, I respect your view, if you think that we ought to go in another direction, but my response to you is, that's not my view or the way that we need to go. The way that we need to go is keep people's taxes down. Do not increase the burden, no matter where they are in America's economy.

Certainly don't increase it on 100 million Americans, as Senator Obama wants to do with an increase in capital gains tax, and continue this debate throughout this country. I appreciate your view, but most of all, I think you express very eloquently the frustration that American families have today. About their future, their ability to keep their home and about their ability to keep their job. I thank you very much. You can respond again, if you want to, please.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): I don't want to take up too much more of your time, but it's not so much taxing the rich as it is not cutting education. I mean, we can find funding the war in Iraq; we should be able to find money to educate the people in America.

MCCAIN: I understand that. I understand your point. But I would point out that we, during the cold war, spent a larger percentage of our gross national product. I don't think that Americans are happy about the war in Iraq, obviously. We see those polls, and I mentioned I understand their frustration, but as I also said to you before, if we pull out of Iraq, if we declare a date for withdrawal and get the troops out of Iraq it is my confirmed belief and conviction that there will be chaos, there will be genocide, and there will be a kind of a situation that requires us to go back with a greater expenditure of American blood and treasure.

Now, again, that is not the view of Senator Obama and Senator Clinton, and I will be glad to have that debate across this nation about how we secure our nation's future. And that's my judgment and my view and my belief, which has not changed, and I'm happy to note that a majority of Americans have great confidence or some confidence in my ability to address the war in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: That was John McCain down on the Gulf Coast talking not only about the economy but also sounding the alarm about a quick pullout from Iraq going after Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama there, who both would like to see that war to an end.

It is now time to take a quick break. Coming after this break here on BALLOT BOWL on CNN we get back to this one-on-one that is happening here in Indiana. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama campaigning hard for the Hoosier state vote. We'll get to that right after a break. This is BALLOT BOWL on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) JIM ACOSTA, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Welcome back to BALLOT BOWL on CNN, I'm Jim Acosta in Anderson, Indiana, where Barack Obama is just about to wrap up a speech and town hall meeting here at this high school in central Indiana. He, just a few moments ago, talked about the rhetoric, how it has been heating up out in the campaign trail. Some of the jabs from Hillary Clinton, he says, is having no affect on his campaign and he insists that despite the tit-for-tat he is not going to respond in kind. And just a few moments ago he fired up this crowd when he said sometimes when you have to be tough you don't fight back. Here's Barack Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As I said, John McCain and I have real differences but I always make a point of saying, I respect him as a person, I respect his service to our country, I think she a good person. I don't -- so question have arguments and disagreements without running the other person down.

(APPLAUSE)

But -- but, you know, that requires a president who has the confidence to stand there and -- sometimes you take some hits. I mean, even during this campaign, I've been taking some hits. And, you know, people -- it's interesting, when I don't always hit back, then folks are, what's the matter with him? How come -- maybe he's not mean enough? Maybe he's not tough enough. You know, one of the things I learned in the schoolyard was the folks who were talking tough all the time, they're not always that tough.

(APPLAUSE)

Right? If you're really tough, if you're really tough, you're not always looking to try to start a fight. If you're really tough, sometimes you just walk away. If you're really tough, sometimes you know, you just save it for when you really need it. And so what I'm interested in, I'm not interested in fighting people just for the sake of scoring political points or getting on the cable news shows. If I'm going to fight somebody, it's going to be fighting over the American people, and what they need. I'll fight for healthcare. I'll fight for a good education system. I'll fight to make sure that people have good jobs and good wages. I'll fight to the death to make sure that America is safe, those things I'll fight for, that's what I'll fight about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And Barack Obama insisting there that when he fights it's for the people, not in the midst of the political campaign going one on one with an opponent. So Barack Obama, despite the fact he has come under heavy criticism, even within some Democratic circles, for not responding in kind for the tough attacks coming from Hillary Clinton. Barack Obama saying, that no, he's going to keep his powder dry in the midst of this campaign and keep things on an even keel.

But, as for his counterpart, Hillary Clinton, she's campaigning hard in this state. She knows that the Indiana vote could be critical to the future of her campaign. So she went right up into northwest Indiana on Thursday a part of Indiana that is going to be a very big base of support for Barack Obama, Gary, Indiana, northwest Indiana, sitting just outside the Chicago suburbs. Some of the suburbs in northwest Indiana are considered part of the Chicago TV viewing audience area, so a lot of people in that part of state get their news from Chicago here. Lots of news about Barack Obama. So it's no mistake that Hillary Clinton wend up there to talk about the economy and other issues facing voters up in northwest Indiana. Here's Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: First, the way that I see the steel industry is that it's a core industry, it's a base industry. If you don't have a strong steel industry, then you are dependent upon foreign countries to import steel for everything from autos to airplanes. That you've got to have a defense sector that is able to rely on a steady supply of steel. We cannot be dependent on foreign countries to meet our basic defense manufacturing needs. So, this is not only about our economy, this is about our national security.

And I spent a Saturday, about two weeks ago, traveling with Senator Bayh. We went from one end of the state to the other, we started down at Allison Transmission, went to A.M. General, talking about why we have to keep defense sector manufacturing jobs in America. In every one ever those plants, they're using steel, and I want those supplies to come from right here. So, this is, really looking at it more comprehensibly. I think we've gotten to chopped up. You know, we talk about trade over here; we talk about healthcare over there. We talk about what we're going to do to get tough on the Chinese. We talk about how we're going have an energy policy that won't bankrupt the steel companies. You've got to put it all together, and the president has to set some goals. And one of my goals is a strong, vibrant manufacturing sector with a strong vibrant steel manufacturing sector, and I will -- I will do whatever I can to achieve that.

We're in a global competition, now. You know, when the steel industry grew up here in Gary, we were pretty much the only game in town. Well, that's all changed. And it's not the other country's fault if we let them take advantage of us. It's time for us to say, wait a minute, this not working for America. So, what do we need to do to fix it? Well, here are some things that I would do. No. 1, you've got to have a new set of trade agreements that have core labor and environment standards in the agreement that are enforceable.

And the reason that it's going to matter is because with the global economy the way it is, if we don't enforce our trade agreements, then you know this, the steel workers have been on top of this more years now, then it become as race to the bottom. It becomes an unfortunate imbalance where we are exporting jobs and in return we're getting goods and products that we used to make here. And it's as serious as losing steel production, as we were for a number of years until the industry went through its transformation, to now getting back lead laced toys and contaminated pet food and polluted pharmaceuticals. So, we've got to get tough on trade.

I will have a trade time-out. No new trade agreements until we know how we're going to get those core labor and environmental standards, how we will be able to enforce our health and safety standards. I will renegotiate NAFTA, because I don't think that it is working as well as it needs to make it as beneficial as it should for our country.

And I will get tough on China, in particular, but China's not the only one. You know, we're competing with a lot of other countries. So, we've got to get tough on China to set an example, and to rein them in, but we also have to look at all of the other countries that want to import into our markets, but not open up their markets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And joining me now is Chris Welch, our embedded producer with the Obama campaign.

And Chris, there's a little bit of news here coming out of this -- out of these remarks from senator Obama. He talked how he's not going to engage Hillary Clinton in a tit-for-tat. Some pretty strong remarks from the senator there, saying that people have been asking him to come out swinging and perhaps lay some blows on the senator from new York, but he says he's not going to do that?

CHRIS WELCH, CNN PRODUCER: Right, well earlier this afternoon, it was actually in an interview with FOX News' Chris Wallace. He said that he doesn't plan on having anymore debates with Hillary Clinton, at least until Iowa. So, from now until May 6, he says no more debates. Well, just this afternoon after that interview we found out the Hillary Clinton campaign and Hillary Clinton campaign manager, Maggie Williams, sent a letter to the Obama campaign. They're now challenging Obama to a debate. They're specifically saying they want to do a one-on-one Lincoln Douglas-style debate, no moderator, every two minutes they will alternate topic and just go backened forth with no one else on stage, but the two of them.

ACOSTA: And it's interesting the way that this has been packaged, because obviously, there was so much talk after the ABC debate in which the moderators came under some criticism in some circles as to whether or not they went a little too harsh on Barack Obama and here seems to be a proposal from the Clinton campaign that takes away the idea of a moderator after Barack Obama essentially said no more debates. How do you think the campaign's going respond to this?

WELCH: Well, I mean, you know, given what he said this afternoon, it seems to me they may keep that same mantra, that no, we're not going to do another debate until Indiana. Now, who knows if this twist with no moderator would have any affect on that, you know, we're trying to get an answer from the campaign on this as we speak, but you know, it could come at any moment. But since the Philadelphia debate, Hillary Clinton has been asking Obama for another debate.

ACOSTA: Clearly the debate idea is a concern for the Obama campaign, because if they just keep it the way is now, we used this analogy with Bill Schneider, they can kind of run out the clock, here. And if Obama can come through Indiana with a victory then, you know, we don't need a stinking debates. Why have a debate?

WELCH: If he is still considered the front-runner, why risk it? You know, and his last debate, really it wasn't the best he's ever had. So, why put him out there for another one that could potentially hurt him? And actually another piece of news that I was just told about by our political desk, he is -- his national poll numbers have gone down just slightly since last week. Last week a "Newsweek" poll at 19 points ahead, now he's just at just seven points, so he's dropped just slightly. Who knows what could happen.

ACOSTA: Thanks very much, Chris Welch. And we're going to be monitoring this story throughout the day. A lot of people wondering whether or not Barack Obama will change his mind and agree to a debate between now and these very important crucial primary that's coming up May the 6th, not only in Indiana, but also in North Carolina. Both of those states together carry more delegates, more pledged delegates, than were up for grabs in Pennsylvania. So, some information may be coming further on that front as the day goes on, but coming up after break here on BALLOT BOWL on CNN we hope to go back to our Bill Schneider in Washington, so stick with us. This is BALLOT BOWL on CCn

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Welcome back to BALLOT BOWL on CNN, I'm Jim Acosta in Anderson, Indiana. And if you've noticed and elevated volume of my voice, that is because Barack Obama has just wrapped up this event here, in front of a big crowd inside this high school cafeteria. Barack Obama talking to voters here and we want to go now, quickly, to Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst in Washington.

And Bill, one message we heard from Barack Obama here at this high school is that despite all of the calls coming from some in the Democratic Party that Barack Obama hit back and hit hard, he is refusing to do so come hell or high water?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the voters, as he's reflecting, are not too happy with this campaign. They want to know, where are the issues?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice over): The Democratic campaign has gotten intensely personal. Hillary Clinton runs ads criticizing Barack Obama.

ANNOUNCER: Harry Truman said it best, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Who you do think has what it takes?

SCHNEIDER: Obama runs ads criticizing Clinton for criticizing him.

ANNOUNCER: What's Hillary Clinton's answer, the same old politics -- misleading negative ads.

SCHNEIDER: The news media encourages that. QUESTION: Senator Obama, do you think senator Clinton can win?

SCHNEIDER: What do voters think of all this? Not much. A national poll taken by the Pew Research Center in the days leading up to the Pennsylvania primary, reveals a sharp increase in the number who say the president's campaign has become too negative. Twenty- eight percent felt way in February, 50 percent feel that way now.

Among Democrats, the volume of complaints has more than doubled, from 19 to 50 percent. What happened to the issues, voters want to know.

CLINTON: Thank you.

SCHNEIDER: Sure, Clinton won the Pennsylvania Democratic primary, but two-thirds of the voters said they thought she attack her opponent unfairly. That could have consequences. Among Democrats who thought Clinton was unfair, 20 percent said they won't vote for her in November if she's the Democratic nominee.

Half of Pennsylvania primary voters thought Obama's attack was unfair. That perception could hurt him even more, because Obama claims to be a different kind of politician. Nearly a third of those who believed Obama attacked his opponent unfairly; say they won't vote for him in the fall if he's the nominee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

If the candidates have aired all of their issue differences and the race still is a result, well, what's left to do than go after each other personally? But Hillary Clinton is saying, no, wait. We haven't aired all our differences. We want to hear what he's going to do about foreclosures and about gasoline prices? Let's have another debate without a moderator this time -- Jim.

ACOSTA: And, Bill, that idea is very interesting to see Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton get on a stage ala Abraham Lincoln and Stephen Douglas and just go at each other without a moderator. And after hearing Barack Obama here, it's interesting, after listening to your piece, with so many voters saying that they're turned often by the negative advertising and the negative campaigning, what do you make of Barack Obama's strategy here? It appears to about strategy, that despite what people inside the party are saying it doesn't appear Barack Obama can take punch, that he is not tough enough. Barack Obama is determined to fight this campaign on the high road?

SCHNEIDER: Well, that's, of course, the whole theme of his campaign that he's a different kind of politician. It's a risky theme, because the Clinton campaign argues, well, he's not tough enough, the Republicans will wipe the floor with him. I'm tougher than he is. It is a risky strategy. But again he is speaking to it because he wants to show voters he aims to change the political game, not just to play it better. So that -- if he were to change that strategy, it could undercut the whole message of his campaign.

ACOSTA: Bill Schneider, thanks very much, joining us once again, we appreciate it.

And coming up after the break here on BALLOT BOWL on CNN we'll get back to John McCain who is campaigning with Mike Huckabee. Yes, that Mike Huckabee, that's coming up after a quick break. This is BALLOT BOWL on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Welcome back to BALLOT BOWL on CNN, I'm Jim Acosta and joining me now live is David Axelrod.

And you are with me. The Barack Obama campaign as all of our viewers know. And I was just curious, I wanted to ask you about some of the remarks that Senator Obama made during this speech today. He talked about, actually in answer to a question that came from one of the voters here, that when he fights it's going to be for the American people, that he's not going to respond tit-for-tat in some of the rhetorical flourishes we've heard during this campaign. Is that a concerted strategy on your part? Is that Barack Obama, the candidate himself talking? What is going on here?

DAVID AXELROD, OBAMA POLITICAL ADVISER: Well, I think that's a principle part of his message and has been from the beginning. Washington is so consumed by the point scoring and partisanship and bitter rivalries and so on that it's one of the reasons we can't get anything done. People are so consumed by the sport of politics that the substance of government gets lost.

One of the things he's been able to do over the course of his career is bring people together, Republicans and Democrat and, people with different points of view to actually get things done. That's an important part of what we need to do going forward, especially after these divisive years with George Bush.

ACOSTA: But would you acknowledge that there are some calls within some Democratic circles that Senator Obama, get tough, hit back hard, perhaps go after the Clintons in areas where we have not gone during the course of this campaign. You are hearing those calls, are you not?

AXELROD: Yeah, we hear them, but here's the reality. Barack Obama didn't get in this race to tear down Hillary Clinton or anybody else. He got in the race to try to lift this country. And I think he'll hit hard at the special interests who are restoring the agenda in Washington and he'll hit hard at policies that conspire against the interests of everyday people and we see them awe the time in Washington. He'll take the case hard to John McCain who wants to continue those policies.

But it's not productive for us to have this kind of destructive intramural fight when we have much bigger goals ahead of us.

ACOSTA: And I understand Barack Obama told one of the cable news interviewers that he would not do anymore debates between now and May the 6th. But an interesting proposal came forward from the Clinton campaign, maybe you're aware of it, maybe you're not. It just came through, that they're challenging Barack Obama to a Lincoln Douglas- style debate. You're from Illinois. How does that sound?

AXELROD: Well, we've debated 21 times, I think, that's probably -- we debate add full workweek worth of time already with Senator Clinton and we have 10, nine days left to meet voters in two important and large states and want to use our time in that way. I don't think the public is clamoring for more debates. I think events like this where the candidate gets to talk to people directly is a more productive use of our time right now.

ACOSTA: So, is that a done deal, a no-go on a Lincoln Douglas- style debate or is it something to consider? I know you said the senator said no to a more convention's moderator-style debate. Is this something you can consider or is it, we're not going there?

AXELROD: We, in the next nine days, we're going to devote our attention to the voters and we'll see where we are after May the 6th, but it doesn't matter whether it's Lincoln-Douglas, standing, sitting, in what language it's in, what -- it does not matter. We want to use this time in this way, and after 21 debates, I think the American people have seen quite a few.

ACOSTA: Thank you very much, David Axelrod. We appreciate your time.

And David Axelrod there saying essentially that they've debated 21 times, no need for a 22nd at this point, and this is -- this is definitely not the end of what we're seeing from the Barack Obama campaign, as it tailors its message -- tailors its campaign strategy as the days move forward, just 10 day left to that critical contest, dual contest coming up -- one in Indiana which is -- which appears to be far more pitched in terms of being so close between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, here in the Hoosier State. And that other contest coming up in North Carolina where Senator Obama is doing quite well, according to some of the polls in and the conventional wisdom down there.

But there's going to be a lot more BALLOT BOWL coming up later on this afternoon. Come back to us at 5:00 Eastern for another hour, another round of BALLOT BOWL, as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama go one-on-one, not exactly on the hardwoods, this is a high school cafeteria. Hillary Clinton was outside earlier today, but you get the picture. We're in Hoosier country. This is certainly something that we expect to see over the next 10 days that are remaining here in this campaign, before the Indiana primary. So, much more CNN coming up after a break. Stick with us and, again, at 5:00 Eastern, more BALLOT BOWL. Thanks for watching.