Return to Transcripts main page
Campbell Brown
Pro-Immigration Rallies Draw Thousands; Democratic Race Tightens; Health Care Plans for Presidential Candidates
Aired May 01, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Lou.
Tonight, everybody, politics and passion in the streets. From coast to coast today, in city after city, thousands marched to demand immigration reform. They marched to protest roundups and deportations, and to plead for laws that would allow illegal immigrants to become U.S. citizens.
We are bringing you right now live pictures of rallies in Los Angeles and San Francisco. While the rallies are drawing thousands, the numbers are actually way down from previous years. Police estimate between 3,000 and 4,000 marchers in Chicago today. But last year's demonstrate drew 150,000. And, in 2006, nearly half-a-million marched.
There were similar sharp declines in New York and elsewhere, reflecting the growing climate of fear in the immigrant community.
On the campaign trail today, Senator John McCain declared immigration isn't just a national security issue; it is also a humanitarian one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, there's 12 million people here who are here illegally, my friends. And we have failed to secure our borders, and we have to secure our borders.
But they are God's children. They're God's children. And they have none of the protections of our laws. And many of them are being exploited every day and mistreated because they have none of those protections. So, it's also a humanitarian issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: With the federal government paralyzed on a real fix for the illegal immigration mess, some states and cities are cracking down on their own. But guess what? It turns out getting tough in John McCain's home state of Arizona may be backfiring.
Here's Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is a steel plant in Phoenix. The owner, Sheraton Bailey (ph), needs workers, even though he recently fired 12. They were all illegal immigrants. And with a tough new state law that could shut down businesses that knowingly hire illegals, Bailey wasn't taking any chances.
It's causing losses across the board.
(on-camera): How much money would you say you have lost in potential business as a result of the current law?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four or five million bucks over a year's time is probably a reasonable figure.
KAYE (voice-over): It's a mess. Business owners say the immigration law backfired. Illegal workers once made up about 11 percent of Arizona's work force. But, with the crackdowns, thousands simply left.
Two months ago, an economic predicted 8 percent of Arizona's population would disappear and the state would lose tens of billions of dollars in economic output because of the new law. Hardest hit, agriculture, tourism, hospitality, construction.
But unemployment is low here. It's below four percent. So, there aren't a lot of workers to fill jobs vacated by the immigrants who left. Bailey tried hiring veterans, ex-cons, even a lost boy from Africa. Nothing's worked. We asked, what will Arizona do now?
It turns out, lawmakers are now considering a plan to try to get the illegal immigrants back again. That's right. They're doing a 180. Oops. This state's senator has a plan to get the workers back. It's sort of an end run on the original plan to get them out. It's a guest-worker program. It would allow businesses to legally hire illegal Mexican workers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to see our companies be able to have increased productivity, increased profits, so that Arizona's economy can go up. This influx of immigrant workers could make a big difference.
KAYE (on-camera): Here's how a guest-worker program would work in Arizona. First, a business would have to prove it was unsuccessful at hiring legal U.S. workers. Then, it would hire Mexican workers using the Mexican Consulate. Every Mexican worker would get a background check, be photographed and fingerprinted before getting a guest-worker card and coming here to Arizona.
(voice-over): Even this man, Russell Pearce, the state senator who pushed through the current tough immigration law, is softening. In a stunning reversal, he now admits the state needs the immigrants back, but only for agricultural jobs.
RUSSELL PEARCE (R), ARIZONA STATE SENATOR: Crops have to be brought in. But I don't need them here to wash my car, mow my lawn, or do I need to eat at fast-food restaurants.
KAYE: But Pearce is trying to have it both ways. He wants the labor, but he doesn't want the laborers. So, his plan? PEARCE: Doesn't lead to citizenship, doesn't lead to any permanent status, can't bring family with you, can't come here and have your babies, can't come here and be a burden on the taxpayer. Come here, work, earn your wages, pay your taxes, and go home when it's done.
KAYE: So while the whoops, we have no workers debate continues in Arizona, business owners keep an eye on the border, hoping the "Keep Out" sign is soon replaced by "Help Wanted."
Randi Kaye, CNN, Phoenix, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And while there is no end in sight to the immigration crisis, we are just five days away from the next presidential primaries in Indiana and North Carolina.
The race is getting tighter and tighter, and both candidates are under pressure to pull off big wins.
So, let's quickly do what we do every night and get the "View From 30,000 Feet."
Barack Obama was courting voters in the northwest part of Indiana today. His wife, Michelle, was in the southern part of the state. One of Hillary Clinton's three Indiana campaign stops including her mother, Dorothy Rodham and her daughter, Chelsea. Bill Clinton made a couple of stops in West Virginia before he, too, arrived in Indiana. We're going to have more on his marathon travels coming up in just a bit.
Senator John McCain is heading west to Ohio, then Iowa and, finally, Colorado.
Hillary Clinton's superdelegate has just defected to Barack Obama. Is it the opening of the floodgates? We're going to head out to the campaign trail next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, it doesn't get any tighter than this, the battle between the Dems now a statistical dead heat in the latest CNN nationwide poll.
Obama's numbers have plunged a full seven points since mid-March, while Clinton's have held steady. But a check of superdelegates, the one category where Clinton has held the lead, appears to be shifting now in Obama's favor.
There was a pretty major blow to the Clinton camp that also came today, a party leader under Bill Clinton switching his allegiance to the senator from Illinois.
So, is this just the tip of the proverbial iceberg?
Here is our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Campbell, I think we're going to have to wait until after next Tuesday's primaries to see where these superdelegates go.
They have gradually been picking a candidate, but, right now, so many of them are looking at Tuesday and the results that come out of that. But, certainly, that endorsement that you talked of today is something that the Obama camp really needed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): A psychological boost and a superdelegate for a beleaguered campaign.
JOE ANDREW, FORMER DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I'm changing my support from Senator Clinton to Senator Obama.
CROWLEY: Joe Andrew is not just another switch-hitter. He's an Indiana native once picked by Bill Clinton to lead the Democratic National Committee. Andrew says Obama's opposition is temporarily lifting the federal tax on gas is emblematic of a guy who really could change Washington.
ANDREW: Barack Obama took on the heavy and difficult political task of doing what is right on an energy policy and an environmental policy, and not what is politically expedient in order to give a quick pander to Hoosier voters.
CROWLEY: Not that anyone needs a road map, but he was talking about Hillary Clinton, who does support a summer holiday from the gas tax.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Obama says we shouldn't do it, and it's a gimmick. And Senator McCain says we should do it, but we shouldn't pay for it. I sometimes feel like the Goldilocks of this campaign.
(LAUGHTER)
H. CLINTON: Not too much, not too little, just right.
CROWLEY: The gas price debate has emerged as part of the competition for the working-class vote. Obama argues, lifting taxes, even for a short time, would drain an enormous amount of money from the fund that fixes roads and bridges, while the average consumer would save just $30 over the summer.
A number of leading economists agree with Obama, adding, the tax holiday could encourage Americans to drive more, increasing demand, decreasing supply, driving up prices. On the politics of it, he's trying to use the issue to paint her as just another politician, say anything, do anything to get elected.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: After John McCain made the proposal, I guess Senator Clinton thought it was going to poll well, so she said, me too. I will do the same thing.
And, so, now it's the McCain/Clinton proposal.
CROWLEY: Clinton argues her program doesn't touch the Highway Trust Fund, and any relief is better than no relief. Politically, she sees this as a way to frame him as an out-of-touch elitist.
H. CLINTON: But I find it frankly a little offensive that people who don't have to worry about filling up their gas tank or what they buy when they go to the supermarket think that it's somehow illegitimate to provide relief for the millions and millions of Americans who are on the brink of losing their jobs, unable to keep up with their daily expenses.
CROWLEY: The only problem is, neither one of them is going to be president this summer. This is not about reality. It's about politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Candy back with us live now.
And, Candy, Hillary Clinton did pick up a handful of superdelegates today. So, explain to people why Joe Andrew switching sides is such a big deal?
CROWLEY: Well, you know, it's the "Et tu, Brute?" factor. This is someone who was close to the Clintons. As we mentioned, he was picked by Bill Clinton become head of the DNC.
He was someone who had endorsed her, was one of her superdelegates. So, this is just one of those things -- and we have seen so many of them in this campaign -- where friendships split up, old alliances split up, and this is another one.
And what you want right now, if you're the Obama campaign, is something that moves you forward, is something that goes up against the lead, which is, well, he's going down in the polls. You need something to show some forward movement. So, it came at a great time, and it was the right person.
BROWN: Yes, much-needed at the moment.
Thanks, Candy. Appreciate it.
So, we know Hillary Clinton's pulling out all the stops on the campaign trail, but her husband, the former commander in chief, isn't missing a beat either. In fact, it seems like Bill Clinton is campaigning in more places than any of the candidates.
So, we were able to keep up with him, what he's doing, and what he's telling voters. We're going to have that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, Bill Clinton will go anywhere and do anything to help Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. But his critics say he's hurt her, too, many times, by his own mistakes. And keeping the former president on message has at times been a real problem for Hillary Clinton.
CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman has been watching Bill Clinton campaign this week. He's in Michigan City, Indiana, tonight -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, Bill Clinton started the day around dawn in coal mining country in West Virginia. He's now ending it in Hoosier country here at a middle school in Michigan City, Indiana, speaking to hundreds of people right now.
He's speaking to lots of enthusiastic crowds today and yesterday while we have been with him. He's also, though, steering away from controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Bill Clinton, who some have seen as a loose cannon and occasionally even a political liability as he's stumped for his wife, is now on a whirlwind campaign tour. And he's staying relatively low-profile.
Within a 36-hour period, Clinton greeted thongs in North Carolina city of Whiteville...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 42nd president of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton.
TUCHMAN: ... and the Indiana city of Whiting. The man from Hope reminisced to the people of Hope Mills, North Carolina.
WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I was president, we had lots of millionaires, but the bottom 20 percent of earners increased their earnings in percentage terms more than the top 5 percent.
TUCHMAN: And he gushed about his wife in somebody's front yard in Lumberton, North Carolina.
W. CLINTON: I would be here for her if she asked me if we had never been married.
TUCHMAN: And when he got to the North Carolina town of Dunn, Bill Clinton was nowhere near done.
W. CLINTON: This is my fourth stop today.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Thirteen campaign stop in a day-and-a-half in three states, North Carolina, West Virginia, and here in Indiana -- Bill Clinton is the cheerleader in chief for Hillary Clinton.
W. CLINTON: And, if somebody tells you, you can't win, it's because they know you can. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Bill Clinton's aides feel comments he's made during this campaign about Barack Obama and race have been unfairly interpreted. Campaign volunteers do their best to keep news cameras far away when he shakes hands, even telling police to kick us out of a public area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need you to move back.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Well, why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you were told. Move back.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): In all his stops during this crucial time, Clinton seldom makes any references at all to Barack Obama, although this implicit one was a zinger.
W. CLINTON: She's going to end this thing roaring, and what are they going to say if she wins the popular vote? I'm sorry, we're going to give it to the caucus states that are going Republican in November?
TUCHMAN: At times, it feels like he's running for a third term. After all, how many political spouses get handed the proverbial baby?
(on-camera): Would you rather see him as president or his wife as president?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I vote for a co-presidency between the two of them, the Billary presidency. Hey!
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Right now, Bill Clinton seems to be staying on message, and away from potential controversy, and cracks himself up when talking about his daughter, Chelsea.
W. CLINTON: She was asked, do you think your mother will be a better president than your father? And she said, well, sure I do.
(LAUGHTER)
W. CLINTON: So, I called her. And I thought she would say, oh, dad, don't worry about it. I mean, it's election and she's on the ballot. You can't run anymore. What else can I say?
You know what she said? Dad, they asked me a direct question. I had to tell the truth.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
TUCHMAN: The sometimes self-deprecating 42nd president doing what he can to make his wife the 44th.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: And Gary Tuchman back with us live now.
And, Gary, explain, though, the breakneck pace that he's on out there right now. He's making more stops than Obama or that his wife typically makes.
TUCHMAN: I mean, the fact is, Campbell, he just loves doing this.
When I have interviewed him since he's left the White House, he's a passionate guy, but not nearly as passionate when he's involved in a campaign.
And his aides tell us that, in the beginning of this campaign, he was making two or three stops a day, and he said, I want to make more. So now he's making six or seven a day, which is an incredible pace.
But, Campbell, one thing that is so unusual, unlike the Obama campaign, unlike his wife's speeches, if I walked away from here and walked up there and walked among the public there, the police would be after me to move me back here, very unusual. Usually, we're allowed where the public is. They are really being careful.
They don't want Bill Clinton to say anything to the news media right now that could get Hillary Clinton in trouble. But it's very important to point out, Campbell, that they are very angry. They believe the news media has misinterpreted and twisted what he says. But there are a lot of people who disagree with that -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Gary Tuchman for us tonight -- Gary, thanks.
So, we are dying to know what our panel thinks about all of this and what Bill Clinton has been up to.
With us tonight, we have got Bay Buchanan. She's a Republican strategist, former adviser to Mitt Romney's presidential campaign. And we should mention, she's not endorsed any candidate, nor contributed to any campaign. Also here with me in New York is "TIME" magazine columnist Joe Klein, and reporter Perry Bacon of "The Washington Post" joining us from Washington.
Welcome to everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Joe, let me start with you. And talk more generally. We're seeing a different side of Bill Clinton maybe during this campaign, not always a good side of Bill Clinton. You have covered him for years. What do you make of all this?
JOE KLEIN, COLUMNIST, "TIME": Well, I don't know what to make of all of this.
This guy, first of all, six or eight events a day, back in the old days, in the 1992 campaign, that would have been a light day. I mean, he kept us going 20 hours a day. He loves doing this. But, back in 1992, and in 1996, when he ran for office for himself, he was far more precise. He didn't make the kind of incredible mistakes that he's made this year.
And there really isn't any explanation for it, unless you want me to put on my novelist hat.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Maybe just feeling the sense of urgency. He wants it so bad for her?
KLEIN: Well, yes, except for the fact that a lot of times when he screws up, when he brings up the Bosnian sniper fire, it's on days when she's really having a good day, and he steals her attention. It's very strange.
BROWN: All right.
Bay, the big question, I think, we never thought we would ask, is Bill Clinton more of a political liability than an asset? And just check out this new NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" poll. Forty percent of voters say that they are at least moderately concerned that Bill will have too much influence in a Hillary Clinton White House. Pretty bad news there for the Hillary Clinton camp, don't you think?
BAY BUCHANAN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN CAUSE: Sure.
Campbell, there's no question that, in the long run, if they kept him out there for instance in the general election, things might not look good. But there's no -- you have to know that they are polling this. They are looking at this. They are not going to use him if he's not beneficial.
He gets enormous local media, something very, very important in these primaries. He brings out crowds. He's raising money. He's upbeat. He's positive. He's working. It's a family effort here. All that works well in a primary.
So, I think they have him. And they are using him, because this is what he does do well, he's comfortable with. And hopefully they are praying that he's got a little discipline and doesn't let that mouth run too long. But he's done well in Pennsylvania, and he's doing well here, it looks to me. I think it's positive.
If he doesn't -- if he -- if they don't win these primaries or look strong -- I mean, win them and also influence the delegates -- they're not going to win the general election. So, what does it matter what the polls say if he's in the long term good or bad?
BROWN: Right.
Perry, I want to talk about today's big defection from camp Clinton. That's former DNC chair Joe Andrew. This is a man that Bill Clinton appointed, also a superdelegates, jumped ship to team Obama. He says this nomination process has to stop. And he wrote: "It is clear that a vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote to continue this process. And a vote to continue this process is a vote that assists John McCain."
How damaging is this? Do you think other superdelegates could follow his lead?
PERRY BACON, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I think -- I mean, this is an argument that the Obama campaign has made and Andrew was making today, too.
I think superdelegates who will respond to this probably to some extent have already endorsed Senator Obama. I think this is an argument that they have already -- that other people have already heard, to some extent. So, I'm not sure it really hurts her in that department as much. I don't think it's a huge hurt for Senator Clinton, in my mind, at least, although it does help -- it does help for Obama to sort of stem a week in which he's had a lot of bad news. Sort of it's a good news point for him, in that a former Clinton supporter is now very emphatically came out for Obama.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Campbell?
BROWN: Yes, go ahead, Bay.
BUCHANAN: Campbell, I would disagree, because, right now, the key here is the superdelegates.
And this trouble that Obama's had in the last two weeks, he's still picking them up. He's closing on her on the superdelegates. I think this decision, the nominee has to be decided by, let's say, at the very latest, the middle of June. And as he picks more and more superdelegates, this is clear she cannot win it unless she starts turning his back to her.
BROWN: All right, hold on, guys. We have got a lot more to talk about. We're going to come back to you, Joe, I promise.
Like, what the latest polls are saying about the Democratic candidates in head-to-head matchups with John McCain -- some interesting stuff here. Is Senator Clinton right in arguing that she's the more electable candidate? That's coming up when we come back -- right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: As we have pointed out, Senator Clinton isn't just trying to win over voters. She's, of course, trying to convince the superdelegates that she would be a stronger candidate than Barack Obama would be against John McCain in November.
And some new polls give that argument some weight.
Let's go back to our panel now. We have got Bay Buchanan, Joe Klein, and Perry Bacon.
Joe, Hillary Clinton's message to the superdelegates, she's the one that can win the key swing states come November. And, today, some new Quinnipiac polls backed her up. Check out these numbers. Head- to-head matchup with John McCain in Florida, Clinton tops him 49 percent to 41 percent, Obama and McCain in a dead heat. Then it's the same thing in Ohio. She's got a 10-point lead over McCain there. Obama and McCain, yes, tied again.
Will numbers like these have an impact on the superdelegates?
KLEIN: A slight impact, because numbers like...
BROWN: Why only slight?
KLEIN: Why? Because numbers like these can change. They can change on a dime.
BROWN: Well, they changed already.
KLEIN: They have changed. In the last month, they have changed.
What is really going to have an impact on the superdelegates is what happens next Tuesday. We are heading into probably the most crucial weekend of campaigning we have seen in this race so far.
Hillary Clinton has to win both of these primaries to stay alive. And they're tightening up. And, so, it's going to be very exciting. It's going to be very intense. And that's what superdelegates are going to look at.
BROWN: Do you think she would drop out if she didn't win North Carolina? She was way down. She is catching up in North Carolina, but no one really expected she would win North Carolina.
KLEIN: I think it would take an improvised explosive device to get her out of this race.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: OK. All right. Fair point.
Perry, I want to turn to North Carolina. It was supposed to be a cakewalk for Obama. But, as we just mentioned, it looks like she is closing in. Check out another new poll I think we can show you right now, where it's just seven points now that separates them.
What's going on down there?
BACON: It look like she's been gaining. I mean, she's had a good couple of weeks coming off Pennsylvania. winning there I think has helped.
I think, as the campaign focuses more on the economy, that's helpful for her, too. I noticed when I was -- I was with traveling with her this weekend in North Carolina. And she's mentioning the economy more and talked about her husband's term more.
I think that sort of is an issue that is good for her, because people do remember her husband's term being good for job growth. At the same time, the demographics are very tough for her to win there, only because she hasn't won a state yet where more than 30 percent of the vote is African-American. And we expect, in North Carolina, 33 percent to 38 percent of the vote will be African-American.
I think it will be very hard for her to win there. And there's also a big sort of college student population in sort of in the Duke area, around that area as well, with the colleges and university, people involved in universities there. I think it's going to be a tough state for her still.
BROWN: All right, Bay, but bottom line is that, yes, Obama maintains this lead among delegates, but he's lost a lot of momentum this month. And the national polls once again show the race in a dead heat.
There doesn't seem to be sort of a groundswell of public support for one candidate over the other at this point. Do you think we're back to talking about a scenario where this could go all the way to the convention?
BUCHANAN: No, absolutely not. The Democrats would be so completely foolhardy to allow that to happen. And so, what you have to look at here is, Obama is going to win the primary. That's done. Even Hillary's people in their best scenario, she can't get to be about within 100 of Obama. So, he's won the primary.
You're looking at June. Are the Democrats willing to flip this? To take the winner of the primary and dump them for someone else? I say no. This thing is done. This primary is over. The superdelegates will move in June and you'll have -- Hillary will be looking at the scoreboard, and it will be over.
BROWN: You said it would take an improvised explosive device to get her out. Do you think it could go to the convention?
KLEIN: I don't think it will go to a convention. If for no other reason than the superdelegates really have, they can prevent either of these candidates from getting a majority. They make the ultimate decision.
BROWN: All right. To Joe, to Bay, to Perry, to all of you, guys, many thanks tonight. Appreciate it.
BUCHANAN: Sure.
BACON: Thank you very much.
BROWN: We are going behind the scenes of the Obama campaign tonight, and ask, when is a barn even more than a barn? That is what campaign stage craft is all about. That's when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Here on the ELECTION CENTER, we have started showing you the stage craft that goes into the presidential candidates' photo-ops. Today, Senator Barack Obama held a "Solutions for Rural America" town hall to try to appeal to Indiana's rural voters. Erica Hill was watching today, so,
Erica, take us through the stagecraft of this event.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK. So if you are going for a town hall with rural America, Campbell, of course, a good place to do that would be in a barn. So we actually did find a barn, where I should say the Obama campaign found a barn in South Bend, Indiana, northern part of the state at the South Bend. Fair Grounds, not your typical barn in a farm field, but this one will do.
As you can see right here where we see Senator Obama, this was his barn, rather large as barns go. This is actually apparently the dairy barn on the property, next to the swine barn which for some reason they didn't choose.
BROWN: Probably smelled a little better than the dairy barn.
HILL: May have been a little odor on the swine barn. So here we are inside. As you can see, little bits of Americana that you really should have in a barn. You had your hay there. Here we go with the bunting and hey a tractor right there.
BROWN: A tractor.
HILL: Right on cue. And then, of course, you bring in your candidate to tie it all together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: To all of you who have taken the time to be here on a pretty nice day where I know you could be out there working the farm, you know, I am grateful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So there we have it. Talking to the people there who could be out working the farm, of course, you want to bring in their farmers there. I have to say though, Campbell, these weren't exactly folks who just happen to wonder in off the fields.
BROWN: Or drive by on their tractor.
HILL: Yes, exactly, which may be shocking, of course, to find out. But there are about 100 people there, which is smaller than most events, but again, small, intimate, rural town hall meeting, and they were invited. This was invitation only.
BROWN: Yes.
HILL: The local Democratic congressman helped to round some of them up and bring them in. And as I mentioned the size here was really part of the stage craft which actually Senator Obama mentions at this point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We had 13,000 people in Bloomington last night. We had 18,000 down in North Carolina, and it's wonderful to see these big crowds, but the problem is, you don't really learn much when you're listening to yourself talk. But you do learn a lot when you listen to the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: And there you go, there's the key. You have to listen to the American people, which is why you get the barn, the hay and the bunting, the tractors, the candidate, the farmers, and let's not forget the last and perhaps the most important bit of this town hall, you need your cameras and your microphones.
BROWN: Absolutely.
HILL: So that you can listen in to some of the folks who have come to tell you what their experience is right now, and here's one of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to educate you also today. I'm going to be the fifth generation farmer on our home farm, and it's my brother and my father and I.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: This gentleman actually is a pig farmer. He told Senator Obama that his family borrowed almost $1 million to upgrade their farm. His father, who he mentioned, he works for as well, couldn't come today. He was home planting corn. But that will give you a sense, all kidding aside for the stage craft here, a sense of the real people who are going to be involved at least in this primary.
Also, though, of course, if you are one of the lucky ones to stand up and talk or ask a question at these town halls, you usually get a little face time and perhaps a hand shake with the candidate as we see right there.
BROWN: You're right. Stage craft aside, that must have been a fairly cool moment for that guy.
HILL: I would think, yes, for anybody to meet someone in that context, not so bad.
BROWN: All right. Erica Hill, thanks as always.
Sometimes a memorable photo-op can be a double-edge sword. Remember this? Check it out.
It was five years ago today when President Bush dramatically landed on an aircraft carrier then stood under the "Mission Accomplished" banner and proclaimed the end of major combat operations in Iraq. Back then, his approval rating was in the mid-60s. Today, in Iraq, a pair of suicide bombers killed 35 people, wounded scores of others at a wedding, and the war continues.
Also today, the president's approval rating is the lowest it has ever been. But the real news is that his disapproval rating, 71 percent, is an all-time high for any modern U.S. president. President Bush is more unpopular than Harry Truman during the Korean War, than Richard Nixon during Watergate, than his father in the 1992 recession, and Jimmy Carter during the 1979 energy crisis.
Coming up, a terrible twist in the story of the woman with the infamous little black book, the D.C. Madam, whose client list outed a number of high-profile officials. The latest on her when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In just a few minutes, the crushing cost of health care and which presidential candidate has the cure.
But first, Erica Hill joins us with "The Briefing" -- Erica.
HILL: Hey, Campbell.
Topping "The Briefing" tonight, President Bush making a new push for emergency food aid, urging Congress today to approve $770 million in new global food aid. That will bring the total U.S. aid to nearly $1 billion dollars in just the past two weeks. Food riots have broken out worldwide this year in response to the rising price of food.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said today she is against getting rid of the Federal gas tax this summer. In an effort to give drivers some relief at the pump, both Senators, John McCain and Hillary Clinton, proposed a gas tax moratorium, but Pelosi says she is skeptical any savings would really be passed on to the consumer.
And finally, the woman known as the D.C. Madam found dead today. Deborah Jeane Palfrey hanged herself. Her mother discovered the body. Palfrey was convicted last month of running a high-end prostitution ring that catered to Washington's politically elite, including Republican Senator David Vitter of Louisiana.
Palfrey was scheduled to be sentenced in July. She faced up to 55 years in prison. She was 52 years old -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Erica, thanks very much.
At virtually every campaign stop, John McCain rails against pork barrel spending and brings up the example of Alaska's infamous bridge to nowhere. It never got built. But tonight on "AC 360," Joe Johns exposes something else that just might. Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What does this frozen stretch of water in Alaska have to do with this patch of scrub at the end of a road in tropical southwest Florida? Connecting these distant dots is this man, Congressman Don Young of Alaska, former chairman of the powerful House Transportation Committee.
He's famous for trying to use tax payer money for wildly expensive bridges to nowhere in the icy wilderness. And now, he's in hot water again, over a botched plan to build an interchange.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We are "Keeping Them Honest" tonight at 10:00 Eastern time on "AC 360."
So, what will Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain do to your health insurance bill? Dr. Sanjay Gupta gives all the candidates' health care proposals a checkup. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Health care is one of the voters' top concerns this year, and all three presidential candidates know it. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama argue endlessly about whose national health insurance plan will actually cover all Americans. John McCain, who is against national health insurance, is spending the entire week this week visiting hospitals and medical labs to promote his own reform proposals.
But does anybody's plan actually stand the chance of being implemented? Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is in the ELECTION CENTER with us tonight.
Welcome to you.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Great, I'm glad to be here. Thanks.
BROWN: So, we talk so much about there being a health care crisis in this country. But explain it to us. How big of a problem is it?
GUPTA: It's huge. I mean, people throw around this number, 47 million people uninsured. Between 2000, 2007, there was about 90 million people at any given time that are uninsured. It's kind of like everybody from Washington to Texas, that entire part of the country, without health care insurance. And there are a lot of people who are also underinsured, which means that they're essentially one illness away from going bankrupt.
BROWN: So, talk us through some of the specifics. They've all got proposals. Start with John McCain.
GUPTA: Well, if you look at Senator McCain, what he's basically saying is let's transfer some of the tax credits from employers to individuals. More specifically about $2,500 tax credit (ph) for individuals, $5,000 for families, saying look, take this money on your own, buy the insurance on your own. What that's going to do is force the free market to compete and probably bring down premiums. That's his hope at least.
He also adds on high-risk pools. The critics have said, look, people can't buy insurance. They have pre-existing conditions. It's too expensive. He says he's going to create sort of this insurance of last resort.
Now to be fair, this has been tried at the state level, and because it's so expensive, because these people are so difficult to insure, it hasn't really worked. So I think that's what the critics are concerned about at a national level as well.
BROWN: So, what about the Democrats?
GUPTA: I think the best way to sort of describe what they're doing is sort of expanding the existing system. In fact, if you think of Medicaid overall, they want to expand that to some extent and also recognize there are people who get their insurance from employers. But if you don't have a job, where does that sort of leave you?
BROWN: Right.
GUPTA: And that's where this public plan option comes into play. They also say employers should be required to provide health care -- small businesses, large businesses and the like.
And the last one, sort of this guarantee of coverage, is probably the most controversial, maybe the most distinctive between the two. Senator Clinton says, look, if you can afford to buy health care insurance, you have to buy it.
BROWN: A mandate.
GUPTA: It's sort of a mandate, and that's what people will call that. Senator Obama says sort of the same thing, except for children only. Not necessarily for adults. What they both scream though is this is not socialized medicine. They both say that over and over again. She obviously talked about that in '94 quite a bit, talking about it again now 14 years later.
BROWN: Now, all three of them, these are big ideas, these are fairly radical ideas. Do they actually have a shot of getting through Congress?
GUPTA: You know, I'm somewhat optimistic that there's going to be some change at this time next year when it comes to health care. But I think it's going to be very different than what we see on the board, what we saw on the board there.
Look, you know, what Senator McCain is proposing is very similar to what President Bush proposed a few years ago, and that never made it through Congress.
Senator Clinton, when she was first lady, proposed a universal health plan. We all what happened in 1994.
BROWN: Right. GUPTA: They never made it anywhere either. I think there's going to be change, but probably not to the extent that we're seeing here today.
BROWN: All right. Sanjay Gupta for us tonight. Sanjay, thanks.
GUPTA: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: Dr. Phil makes a house call on "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour but this time, he is getting serious, talking about new allegations of abuse in the polygamist cult and a lot more.
Larry, what's going on tonight?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Oh, Campbell, we've got quite an emotional show ahead. Three children drowned in a bathtub. Their father is charged with the crime, and we're going to hear from the children's mother.
And then Dr. Phil will try to make sense of it all. He'll also talk about that Austrian dungeon case. We can call tonight strange stories. All at the top of the hour on "LARRY KING LIVE," Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Larry, appreciate it.
And we are heading shortly into the "War Room." With Indiana and North Carolina just days away, how do Clinton and Obama need to manage expectations? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: With North Carolina and Indiana right around the corner, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are vying for votes while their campaigns are vying for superdelegates. Who really holds the key? Who really hold the key to this year's Democratic nomination?
So we are hunkering down in our own "War Room" to talk strategy. And joining me, Democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf, who is also a CNN contributor, and Republican strategist Barbara Comstock. She was the senior adviser to former Republican candidate Mitt Romney.
So, Hank, let me start with you. North Carolina, as we mentioned, Indiana, just a few days away now, so it's time to play the expectations game. Let's say that you are working for Obama. You're his spin meister. What are you telling reporters? What are you telling superdelegates in terms of expectations? What should they be looking for?
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The job right now is to get the superdelegates and tell them that Senator Clinton's, you know -- Senator Clinton's game, we're trying to tell people she's the one who could win and that superdelegates ought to pay attention is just plain false. Keep repeating the number of delegates he has. Strategy going forward, win North Carolina big. Do not set high expectations for Indiana and it's kind of a throw in the dice after the Wright episode. BROWN: And maybe North Carolina, too, because the polls show, at least the ones I saw today, that that race is really tightening up in North Carolina.
SHEINKOPF: North Carolina tightening up. But again, he's got to play to his strength and he's got to keep stressing the fact that he's got delegates, she doesn't, number one. Number two, he's got to start being more tangible. As we said the other night, he's got to get down to the bottom line, what he's going to do, how he's going to do it, and that will keep voters in place.
BROWN: Barbara, let's say you are working for Hillary Clinton. What kind of expectations are you trying to set for Tuesday's big one?
BARBARA COMSTOCK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think she's going to continue to argue her electability argument. So winning in Indiana, by any margin, a small margin, is going to be, you know, she will argue as a victory and will be seen as, you know, Barack Obama's strength withering. And then if she gets into the single digits in North Carolina, where some of the recent polls are showing, then that will in effect be a victory.
And I think she's going to continue -- you know, she'll go after those working class voters and that's going to continue to be her argument, that, you know, the elite argument, you know, I guess we saw Barack Obama thrown back some beer today, but Hillary Clinton hasn't been doing that yet in Indiana or North Carolina. But I think you'll see a little bit more of that over the weekend.
BROWN: Hank, let's talk money. Obama has really outraised her. He's outraised everybody. If you're running Clinton's campaign, though, how are you spending money right now? Are you really going to blow it all in Indiana? Are you going to save it for something else?
SHEINKOPF: Indiana is pretty important to the Clinton campaign. They've got to do well, and they've got to win white Catholic men. That's always the question here. That proves the electability argument, and it proves that they can win in that state.
As it applies to North Carolina, I use a lot of direct mail, probably wouldn't do a lot of television, but I'll do a lot of TV in Indiana. And my TV argument is very simple. I'm the one who can win, and I have tangible solutions.
Barack Obama, he is still reeling from the Reverend Wright problem.
BROWN: Right.
SHEINKOPF: And that's caused the values problem that frankly is moving his numbers down. Can he recover from that? Probably not, which means this is going to go past North Carolina and Indiana.
BROWN: Barbara, what about Obama? He's got a ton of money. He was outspending Clinton practically two to one, I think, in Pennsylvania. But it ultimately didn't really help him there. So, how do you get the most bang for your buck going forward?
COMSTOCK: Well, I think he's got to decide, you know, and realize, when you are dealing with the Clintons, you cannot be bringing a knife to a gun fight. You know, the Clintons play tough. They are going to continue to -- you know, the Reverend Wright problem which, you know, the vast Reverend Wright right wing conspiracy will continue. Hillary will continue to use that.
And he's got to fight back harder. I mean, this week he's really been looking kind of weak and, you know, kind of, you know, a little bit deer in the headlights. Michelle Obama is looking, you know, like she's weary, and Hillary Clinton is out there going strong.
And you have to realize, the Clintons never quit. Nothing can embarrass them. You know, there's no humiliation that they will not go through to get this nomination, and she is in it until the end. And so, he should be using all that money he has. You know, get everything he can out there to make sure he's going to win, you know, pretty well in North Carolina.
And then fight to get, particularly the working class vote. He's got to do better on that because that is going to be Hillary Clinton's argument. And, you know, she's got to win ugly, she will win ugly. And she's not getting out.
BROWN: All right, hold it right there. We got to take a quick break. When we come back, how Chelsea Clinton might help her mom win big come next Tuesday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are talking superdelegate strategy in the "War Room" tonight with Democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf and Republican strategist Barbara Comstock.
And Hank, Chelsea Clinton has emerged as a star in this campaign. She's been out there campaigning for her mother. Let's take a look at her today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHELSEA CLINTON, FORMER PRES. CLINTON'S DAUGHTER: I do -- I do fundamentally know that my mother is not only the strongest and the most prepared candidate but would be the best president for me, as a single 28-year-old, and also for me as the young mother that I hope to be under our next president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: She is smart, she is poised. Audiences really seem to respond to her. If you're advising Clinton, how would you deploy Chelsea Clinton? What can she do for her?
SHEINKOPF: Part of what is happening probably with Senator Obama's numbers is that young people may be deserting him. Why? They don't like the Reverend Wright controversy. This is not hope and change.
Chelsea Clinton is someone that young people can identify with, much like them, hopes, aspirations. And they ought to have her out a lot.
BROWN: I think they are. And more and more, it seems like.
SHEINKOPF: More and more.
BROWN: Barbara, Karl Rove has some advice for Senator Obama in this week's "Newsweek." He said, "You argue the son of a single working mom can't be an elitist. But it's not where you start in life, it's where you end up. You're making mistakes and making people worry that you are an elitist." What does he have to do to lose this elitist tag once and for all?
COMSTOCK: Well, he'd do well to get his family back out on the stump, too, not just Michelle who sometimes can kind of seems to make Barack Obama tense, but get his cute young daughters out there. You know, take them out of school, let them get a little education on the campaign and just sort of warm up the family atmosphere.
Because I think part of what you see with Chelsea is not just for the young voters, but it helps normalize the family situation, the cultural rift that Democrats always have with, you know, sort of main stream voters. Because -- and the real problem with the Democratic Party, and particularly both of these candidates, is they are elites. You know, Harvard, Yale --
BROWN: OK.
COMSTOCK: You know, the liberal elite, and they don't really have, you know, the Bubba vote the way Bill Clinton did.
BROWN: All right.
Barbara, I wish I can let Hank respond, but we're out of time. We got to end it there.
Larry King starts whether I want him to or not.
Hank, next time, I owe you one. Thanks to both of you.
"LARRY KING" right now.
