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American Morning
Barack Obama Wins North Carolina Primary; Hillary Clinton Ekes Out Win in Indiana
Aired May 07, 2008 - 05:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Closing in.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We stand less than 200 delegates away from securing the Democratic nomination for president of the United States.
ROBERTS: Obama by a blow out in North Carolina. Clinton by enough in Indiana.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've come from behind. We've broken the tie and thanks to you, it's full speed on to the White House.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They cannot fathom possibly giving up despite the numbers.
ROBERTS: Exclusive details from inside the Clinton camp.
It's the most politics in the morning on a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: And good morning. I'm John Roberts in the CNN Election Center. We're up early. We have been tracking the results of Indiana and North Carolina, those primaries, all night long, and it has been a nail biter. The race in Indiana was called just a few hours ago. And Hillary Clinton eking out a win there. She carried Indiana by two points. It was 51 percent to 49 percent, a difference of fewer than 25, 000 votes.
But there was no doubt about it, though, in North Carolina. Barack Obama won it early and he won it big. Fifty-six percent to 42 percent.
Hillary Clinton stayed on message despite the results there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Not too long ago, my opponent made a prediction. He said I would probably win Pennsylvania, he would win North Carolina and Indiana would be the tie breaker. Well...
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) CLINTON: Tonight, we've come from behind. We've broken the tie and thanks to you, it's full speed on to the White House.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: You know, this has been an extraordinary experience, traveling across Indiana, having an opportunity to meet so many of you, and for everyone who holds your breath at the gas pump, afraid to see how much it cost today, and for everyone working day and night, because you want the world for your kids. For every young person with big dreams who deserves a world of opportunity and for all those who aren't in the headlines but have always written America's story, tonight is your victory right here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Hillary Clinton last night whose speech came about an hour and a half after Barack Obama's because of a delay in Lake County, counting some absentee ballots there. Those results didn't come in until well after midnight.
Following Hillary Clinton's speech, our Suzanne Malveaux had exclusive details on the candidate who still thinks that she has a lot left in the tank.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (on camera): Well, Clinton insiders that I have been speaking with this evening really describe this as a situation where both Bill and Hillary Clinton are so convinced that she would be the better candidate against John McCain, that they cannot fathom possibly giving up despite the numbers.
And one of the things that she has successfully done recently is that she is rebranded herself from the inevitable frontrunner to a fighter, the last thing that she wants to do, close associates of the Clintons, is to quit. They feel that this campaign has really gone from the control booth to the streets and that this is a strategy that is working.
But one of the main things looking forward, going forward now is really, Indiana was a critical win because they need the money. A financial windfall that they believe happened after Pennsylvania. It's the kind of thing that they are looking for in the days ahead.
They are confident about West Virginia, Kentucky and Puerto Rico, but they don't have the kind of money that they believe they can adequately (INAUDIBLE) against Barack Obama in the kind of resources that he has. So it's not surprising tomorrow that we'll see Hillary Clinton, as well as her daughter Chelsea, in Washington, at a fundraiser before a group of women asking for those dollars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Late surge by Barack Obama almost made it a clean sweep last night as those results from Lake County were late coming in. Senator Clinton watched her double-digit lead in Indiana shrink as the focus shifted to Lake County. It's right outside of Obama's hometown of Chicago, home to about 8 percent of Indiana's population.
Obama also won the area around Indianapolis. Rural areas, though, were Hillary Clinton's strength.
Even though Clinton won a nail biter, it wasn't enough to make a dent in Obama's overall delegate lead, a lead that he extended last night with a huge win in North Carolina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: You know, when this campaign began, Washington -- didn't give us too much of a chance. But because you came out in the bitter cold and knocked on doors and enlisted your friends and neighbors in this cause, because you stood up to the cynics and the doubters and the nay-sayers when we were up and when we were down, because you still believe that this is our moment and our time to change America.
Tonight we stand less than 200 delegates away from securing the Democratic nomination for president of the United States.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: More importantly, because of you, we've seen that it's possible to overcome the politics of division and the politics of distraction, that it's possible to overcome the same old negative attacks that are always about scoring points and never about solving our problems. We've seen that the American people aren't looking for more spin. They're looking for honest answers about the challenges we face. That's what you've accomplished in this campaign, and that's how together we intend to change this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Barack Obama from last night.
CNN's Candy Crowley was in the hall for the speech and had this instant reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): It always plays well when you have your supporters and a lot of these are people who have knocked on doors for the past several months.
Look, this was a convention speech tonight. This was his argument to the superdelegates. Here's how I can win, here's what this is about, this is a turning of the page, this is a new -- to use that horrible word -- a new paradigm. This is what the country is about.
And the other thing about it is that this was an expansion of what he's been saying on the trail since the Reverend Wright kind of return to the scene, and that is, "Do you want to know who I am? Do you want to know what's inside me?" And he ticks it off. This is what we have heard on the campaign trail. "I am the son of a woman who was on food stamps. I am the grandson of a man who went to college on the G.I. bill. This is who I am. I love this country."
You would be surprised, Anderson, how many times in these town hall meetings, he gets asked about his patriotism. He gets asked about the flag pin issue. So this is Barack Obama reintroducing himself after really six weeks of other people redefining him. It's what he's been doing on the ground here in North Carolina and in Indiana, and what it's -- what he's doing tonight to a much broader national audience.
This was definitely a superdelegate speech.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Now here are the delegate numbers in the -- the new numbers at least in the delegate count. 2,025 are needed to clinch the nomination. Barack Obama needs a little less than the 200. He's got 189 to get there. Hillary Clinton needs 344. 217 pledged delegates available in the six remaining contests. There are about 280 superdelegates are uncommitted. The actual number is 278.
So we'll be doing that math a little bit later on this morning with our John King. Hope you get the magic wall, give you a breakdown of what each of the candidates needs to do to win that nomination.
But right now, let's go to Alina Cho. She's got a look at what the results mean going forward. She's got her panel this morning.
Good morning, Alina.
ALINA CHO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, John, good morning to you.
You know time and primaries may be running out but Hillary Clinton showing no signs of giving up the fight, hours before her razor-thin win in Indiana, Clinton told supporters that victory there gives her the edge over Barack Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Not too long ago, my opponent made a prediction. He said I would probably win Pennsylvania, he would win North Carolina and Indiana would be the tie breaker. Well...
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: Tonight, we've come from behind. We've broken the tie and thanks to you, it's full speed on to the White House.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: Full speed ahead. But Clinton also pledged to be a team player for Democrats in the fall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I can assure you, as I have said on many occasion, that no matter what happens, I will work for the nominee of the Democratic Party because we must in November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: All right. Let's turn now to our political panel for some morning-after analysis. Democratic strategist Julian Epstein who supports Hillary Clinton, Melissa Harris-Lacewell, who is a contributor to TheRoot.com and an Obama supporter, Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez, and, of course, no panel is complete with our CNN political analyst John Dickerson.
So I want to turn to you, Julian. You are a Clinton supporter. You just heard from her. Full speed ahead or support the Democratic nominee. I mean quit in not in the Clinton lexicon. So which is it?
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think it's full speed ahead for now. And I think both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton made the right sounds about the party coming together. I think she has still a very strong argument, and she made it last night. She said that Barack Obama said that Hillary Clinton is expected to win Pennsylvania, he's expected to North Carolina, and Indiana would be the tie-breaker.
Well, she won the tie-breaker, and I think her argument to superdelegates today is this...
CHO: Well, right, but a lot of people say she had to win both states to really come out and pull off a win, and she did not do that.
EPSTEIN: Well, here's her argument today to superdelegates. Her argument is is that there's two phases in this campaign. From the period of time, January through February, Barack Obama clearly won. Since the beginning of March, we're going at it now 10 weeks or so, Barack Obama has won one out of five major races. He will probably lose West Virginia. That'll be one out six.
We've never before had a Democratic nominee that has sailed into the nomination on a losing streak like that. She will be able to say that since the beginning of March, there has been a shift in the electorate, and voters have fundamentally changed in her favor across numerous demographics. And if you look at this as a snapshot since the beginning of March, there has been -- there's been a change maybe with the Reverend Wright controversy, which I didn't particularly liked, I thought that he was attacked unfairly on that.
CHO: All right. Melissa, I want to get to you very quickly -- OK.
EPSTEIN: But nonetheless the voters are changing in her favors since that's been discussed.
CHO: OK. All right. Well, I'm looking at her reaction to this. You are an Obama supporter. A lot of people were saying last night that Obama, in his very long acceptance speech, sounded like a general election candidate, that he was making an argument to superdelegates. "Listen, I can win in the fall."
Did he make that argument effectively?
MELISSA HARRIS-LACEWELL, CONTRIBUTOR, THEROOT.COM: Well, he certainly should sound like a general election candidate, because at this point, he's leading in the pledged delegates. He's won, you know, a majority of the votes of the Democratic primary. He's won a majority of the states in the Democratic primary.
At this point the only way for Hillary Clinton to win is to make an argument to superdelegates that they should overcome the will of the voters and hand her the nomination.
Now this notion about we've never, in history, had this is accurate on so many levels. We've never before, in history, had this.
CHO: OK.
HARRIS-LACEWELL: To have this kind of long primary, to have it between this kind of historic candidates. I don't think anybody at this point can make an argument about the history of it.
CHO: I want to jump in, Melissa. John -- Leslie, we'll get to you in a minute. But John, very quickly, you've described the Democratic primary as something that was designed by Willy Wonka. So what is next?
JOHN DICKERSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, what's next now is Hillary Clinton's getting up early this morning, going right to West Virginia, reinforcing this idea that she had made and her camp -- she's going to get right back up and fight again. This goes back to this argument that if the country is in trouble and people are hurting, they want somebody who's going to fight for them.
So that's what she's trying to do. The problem is, the math got worse for her last night.
CHO: Right. Yes.
DICKERSON: And if you look at the superdelegates, the people who care -- who really matter now, there are more of them at stake than there are pledged delegates.
CHO: Right.
DICKERSON: They have been going to Obama basically 5-1 since Super Tuesday. Since Pennsylvania, they've been going to him 2-1.
All of these arguments she's been putting forward have largely been in play and the superdelegates continue to go to Obama, largely, because for her to win would be an unprecedented reversal of the pledged delegates, which would cause this nightmare in the party. There are plenty of Clinton supporters who might get angry if Obama is the nominee, but the way the superdelegates have seen it so far, the nightmare would be bigger if Obama does not get the nomination.
CHO: Leslie, we're going to get to you. We've got you here for the full four hours. The lone Republican, she's ready to give money to Hillary Clinton. And Leslie, we will get to you...
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: She will go win.
CHO: ...a little bit later.
All right, John, back over to you.
ROBERTS: All right. It's 13 minutes, almost 14 after the hour.
Indiana was a crucial but narrow victory for Hillary Clinton. What key group put her over the top? We're breaking down the exit polls coming up next with Bill Schneider. And Barack Obama using his commanding win in North Carolina to -- drive home the theme of change. Obama tells us why he is the man to get it done.
And that's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: We can, once again, be the can-do nation. A nation that defies the odds and greets the future with optimism and hope. There isn't anything America can't do. Once we make up our minds to start acting like Americans again, and that is exactly what we intend to do.
Thank you and God bless you, and God bless America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: That was Hillary Clinton speaking last night in Indiana where she pulled off a big, if narrow, victory over Barack Obama.
So who does she have to thank for that win? Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins us now with a look at what the exit polls are telling us, and age had a lot to do with her win last night, not hers, that of the voters.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It certainly did. Take a look at the voters who are under 65. That's an awful lot of people. That 86 percent of the voters in Indiana. They voted for Barack Obama by a pretty narrow margin, 53-47. Without the seniors, he would have won. But look at what seniors did for Hillary Clinton.
Voters 65 and older, more than two-thirds, 69 percent for Hillary Clinton. That's better than 2-1 over Barack Obama. If she has anyone to thank for her victory in Indiana, it is seniors.
ROBERTS: Is that about what she has done on other states? Is it more? Is it less? SCHNEIDER: This actually more -- better among seniors, but she always does very well among seniors and, of course, Obama does very well among young people. But they made the crucial difference in Indiana.
ROBERTS: Why did he do better in Indiana than he did in Pennsylvania?
SCHNEIDER: That's a good question. We wondered about that, so we compared Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana, three neighboring states. And we wondered, there were two reasons really. One is that Indiana is near Chicago in Illinois, so a lot of voters in Indiana watch Chicago television. They're familiar with Barack Obama.
There was another reason. And that was, take a look at how white women responded to Obama in these three neighboring states. In Ohio in March, 31 percent of white women voted for Obama. Pennsylvania, just about the same. But he made a big breakthrough. He got 40 percent of white women voters in Indiana.
Why?
Well, here's a guess. It might have been a backlash against her new persona. She's now a fighter, she's a tough-talking, gun-toting, whisky-swilling, tax-cutting populist. And that may have had a backlash among white women Democrats.
ROBERTS: But what about African-American voters? She's -- he -- you know, in the very, very early going, it looked like she was going to win among African-American voters. And then as the primary process progressed, he started winning overwhelmingly. How did he do and what kind of a problem is it for her going forward?
SCHNEIDER: Well, it is a problem for her. He started doing well among African-American voters the day he won Iowa and they saw that he was an African-American candidate who could win white votes, and they were thrilled. And now, take a look at how he's doing.
Among African-American voters, he's getting over 90 percent. Hillary Clinton has reduced to single digits. She's never done that badly among African-Americans.
ROBERTS: It's the down in George Bush territory.
SCHNEIDER: That's right. That's about what Bush gets among African-American voters. She would typically get in previous primaries 10, 15 percent, but now it's in single digits, which means this is a Democratic-base constituency and she is really dwindling to almost nothingness among those African-Americans.
ROBERTS: Lots of interesting facts and figures in the exit polling. We'll run down some more but a little bit later on. But right now, let's go over to Alina.
CHO: All right, John, thank you. You know, Senator Barack Obama is reveling in his first major win in nearly two months. And he returned to his major theme of change and unity. He also took on Republican John McCain. We're going to hear what he said next.
And Obama pulled off a bigger-than-expected win in North Carolina. Did he tap in to something that could help convince the party he should be the nominee? We'll take a closer look ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: It's 22 minutes after the hour.
Senator Barack Obama's victory in North Carolina was a landslide. He won by 14 percentage points, widening his lead in pledged delegates and he increases his lead in the popular vote as well. Obama almost lost only narrowly to Hillary Clinton in Indiana. And in his victory speech, Obama turned his attention to the presumptive Republican nominee, John McCain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The attempts to play on our fears, exploit our differences, to turn us against each other for political gain. To slice and dice this country into red states and blue states, blue color, and white color, white, black, brown, young, old, rich, poor.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: This is the race we expect, no matter whether it's myself or Senator Clinton who is the nominee. The question then is not what kind of campaign they will run, it's what kind of campaign we will run.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: It's what we will do to make this year different. You see, I didn't get into this race thinking that I could avoid this kind of politics, but I am running for president because this is the time to end it.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE: Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can!
OBAMA: We will...
UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE: Yes, we can! Yes, we can!
OBAMA: We will end it this time not because I'm perfect. I think we know at this phase of the campaign that I am not. We will end it not by duplicating the same tactics and the same strategies as the other side because that will lead us down the same path of polarization and of gridlock. We will end it by telling the truth. (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: We will end it by telling the truth forcefully, repeatedly, confidently, and by trusting that the American people will embrace the need for change even if it's coming from an imperfect messenger, because that's how we -- because that's -- because that's how we've always changed this country. Not from the top down, but from the bottom up.
When you, the American people, decides that the stakes are too high, and the challenges are too great...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Obama's commanding win in North Carolina puts him within 189 delegates to the finish line but there are only 217 pledged delegates in the remaining six contests. So it's increasingly looking like superdelegates will be the deciding factor in the Democratic nomination.
CHO: And more...
ROBERTS: That's fight, that fight ahead.
CHO: And more superdelegates up for grabs right now.
ROBERTS: 278. Yes.
CHO: That's right, yes.
Coming up, Barack Obama won decisively in North Carolina. What issues scored with voters? How did it break down by race? You may be surprised. We're going to break that down ahead.
And Hillary Clinton just barely pulled out a win in Indiana. It was a nail biter. How'd she pull it off? We'll break it down, county by county, at the magic board, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: There are those who were saying that North Carolina would be a game-changer in this election. But today what North Carolina decided is that the only game that needs changing is the one in Washington, D.C.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: Welcome back. Barack Obama wins North Carolina by 14 points. He calls it a big state he needed to win.
Mary Curtis is a columnist for the "Charlotte Observer." That's the largest newspaper in North Carolina, and a paper that also endorsed Obama earlier this month. Mary, good morning and thank you for joining us. You know, Obama won big by 14 points. He got 91 percent of the black vote. Were you surprised that the margin was so big? If so, why? If not, why not?
MARY CURTIS, COLUMNIST, CHARLOTTE OBSERVER: Well, in the beginning, Barack Obama, several weeks ago, had a double-digit lead. But the polls have been tightening and then they had been all over the place. I don't think expect that quite so big a margin for Barack Obama in North Carolina. And in fact, both he and Hillary Clinton and their campaigns and their surrogates, campaigned very heavily...
CHO: So what do you think...
CURTIS: ...in North Carolina
CHO: What do you think happened then at the last minute with voters?
CURTIS: Well, I surveyed a lot of voters and visited a lot of polling places yesterday. And basically, I think they want a change. They really talked about the economy. They talked about gas prices, about jobs, and even some Republican voters I spoke with, who, you know, could not vote in the Democratic primary, obviously, but several said that they wish that they could have voted for Barack Obama, and that they are listening to his message. So (INAUDIBLE) was fine.
CHO: I saw some of the long lines at the polling stations that, like, 6 o'clock in the morning yesterday. It was really incredible.
Tell me, what was the mood like yesterday? I mean you write in your column this morning suddenly North Carolina mattered.
CURTIS: Well, yes. Well, usually a May 6th primary, this late, would not have mattered in the primary contest. So I think there was a great deal of excitement that the spotlight was on North Carolina, and we got visits from Bill and Hillary and Chelsea Clinton and actors and actresses. We got visits from Barack and Michelle Obama, and Governor Sebelius came to support him from Kansas.
So I think they really looked at all the issues and looked at the candidates, and they had the chance to see them up close. And I think...
CHO: Yes, not just the candidates. But the surrogates, too.
CURTIS: Definitely.
CHO: Bill Clinton spending a lot of time logging a lot of stops in North Carolina, in small towns.
CURTIS: Yes.
CHO: Last night, Senator Obama thanked the people of North Carolina. Let's take a listen to that and we'll talk on the other side.
CURTIS: Definitely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to thank of course the people of North Carolina. I want to thank them for giving us a victory in a big state, in a swing state, in a state where we will compete to win if I am the Democratic nominee for president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: All right. Let's have a reality check here. George Bush won North Carolina decisively in 2004 by 12 points. So did Obama make a successful case last night that he turn the red state blue?
MARY CURTIS, COLUMNIST, CHARLOTTE OBSERVER: Well remember what - and George Bush won when there was a senator from North Carolina on the ticket, on the Democratic ticket. So I think that when you look at it, that he's going to have a tough time. Let's face it, winning North Carolina in November. At the same time in 2004, gas wasn't $3.50 a gallon. Iraq war wasn't where it was right now, the situation there. So never say never. Of course, we have a chance of course. Will it be difficult? I think it will be very difficult, but I think a lot will depend on what happens between now and November. Anything can happen as far as the home prices and the economy and so forth. But I think he has a chance of course. But let's wait and see.
CHO: As we've been saying, anything can happen in politics, Mary Curtis, columnist for the "Charlotte Observer." We thank you for your time this morning.
CURTIS: Thank you Alina.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: It is 32 minutes after the hour. The Clinton camp says a win is a win is a win, but the delegate math is not being kind to her. Does she still have a shot at the nomination without causing chaos at the convention? Back with that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHO: Welcome back to the most politics in the morning and two campaigns are savoring primary wins this morning, but just one is walking away with a bigger lead. Hillary Clinton barely edged Barack Obama in Indiana, 51 to 49 percent. A much different story in North Carolina though, the biggest prize left in the race went to Obama in a big way, 56 to 42 percent. The Obama campaign saying this morning Senator Clinton needed two big wins. She didn't get them. She missed her last chance. Jessica Yellin has more on Obama's big night.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With his decisive victory in North Carolina, Barack Obama all but declared himself the Democratic nominee. SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, there are those who are saying that North Carolina would be a game changer in this election. But today, what North Carolina decided is that the only game that needs changing is the one in Washington, D.C.
YELLIN: Promising to unite the party and champion American values, he turned his sights on John McCain.
OBAMA: While I honor John McCain's service to his country, his ideas for America are out of touch with these core values.
YELLIN: And declared himself ready to take on any Republican attacks.
OBAMA: Yes, we know what's coming. I'm not naive. We've already seen it, the same names and labels they always pin on everyone who doesn't agree with all their ideas.
YELLIN: Translation: he's electable. Despite dwindling opportunities, Senator Clinton conceded nothing.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And Indiana would be the tie breaker. Well, tonight we come from behind. We've broken the tie and thanks to you, it's full speed onto the White House.
YELLIN: With her supporters behind her, she made another appeal for cash to fuel this race.
CLINTON: So I hope you will go to hillaryclinton.com and support our campaign.
YELLIN: And to count her winning votes in Florida and Michigan.
CLINTON: It would be a little strange to have a nominee chosen by 48 states.
YELLIN: But Chelsea and Bill's faces seemed to betray something different, perhaps a sense that victory is remote.
(on-camera): Senator Clinton is positioned to win primaries in West Virginia and Kentucky, but to overcome Barack Obama's delegate lead, she would need landslide victories in the next six primary contests. That doesn't seem likely. Still, she is promising to fight on. Jessica Yellin, CNN, Indianapolis.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: Full speed ahead as she says and early this morning, Hillary Clinton's campaign released a statement saying, a win is a win and contending that she is still the better candidate to take on John McCain in November. So what do the results mean going forward? Let's go over to John now for more with our political panel. Hey John.
ROBERTS: Hey, Alina, thanks very much. Barack Obama sounded like the Democratic nominee last night, with a plan to fight personal attacks by Republicans in November. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will end it by telling the truth forcefully, repeatedly, confidently and by trusting that the American people will embrace the need for change, even if it's coming from an imperfect messenger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Let's bring in our political panel now. Julian Epstein is a Democratic strategist. He's also a Clinton supporter. Melissa Harris Lacewell is a contributor to theroot.com. She supports Obama. Leslie Sanchez of course a Republican strategist and John Dickerson, political analyst, chief political correspondent for slate.com. Let's start with you. You didn't have a chance the last time. You heard Barack Obama. He's planning on fighting a tough battle in the general election campaign. Who is, to a Republican eye, who is more vulnerable, Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton in a general election and who would Republicans rather run against?
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think overwhelmingly Republicans would rather run against Hillary Clinton. We know Bill and Clinton very well. It's the campaign to excite and mobilize a lot of Republicans, but increasingly, it looks like it's going to be Barack Obama. That's the reality we're dealing with and to the point about where do we go from here, I think the issue is overwhelmingly, especially to Hillary defenders, are seeing that it's going to come down to the super delegates and let's call them what they are. They're party bosses, fat cats, elitists. I mean they're about as far away from the democratic process as you can imagine because it's a few elite few, a select few deciding who's going to win this nomination.
ROBERTS: So, you took back the word elite. You got banged last night by Donna Brazile on that. I watched that.
SANCHEZ: Let's be fair about. She may have started scrubbing floors like she talked about, but I mean she's come a long way. These are folks who really understand and control the Democrats.
ROBERTS: So Republicans would rather run against Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton through her surrogates, is making the case that she is one who's better able to take on John McCain. Lanny Davis last night was all over CNN saying, polls show that she beats McCain in the really important states in Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio. Barack Obama loses them. What case is being made to the super delegates?
MELISSA HARRIS-LACEWELL, CONTRIBUTOR, THEROOT.COM: I got to say we got to be careful about polls in this election. Pundits and polling has been consistently inconsistent in this particular primary process. I also want to say that remember, her base is among demographics that have, once we get into the general election, about a two to one benefit for the GOP. In other words, the very people who she's winning in the Democratic primary are actually not the base of the party regardless of all this kind of blue collar language. She's not going to be the choice of working class white men and seniors. That's going to be John McCain. So she's winning among the demographic where John McCain is strongest.
ROBERTS: So would do you make of it?
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I so disagree with Leslie. I speak for lots and lots of Republican consultants, including Republican consultants who are connected to the McCain campaign and I think two a T, I hear people coming from the McCain campaign saying they would much rather run against Barack Obama than Hillary Clinton. I think, as I said in the last segment, there has been a big shift in the electorate, not just with Democratic primary voters, but I think amongst all voters, remember, a shift in favor of Hillary Clinton. She will now as of the beginning of March, she will have won five of the last six major primaries if you'll include West Virginia, which I think she will win.
ROBERTS: (INAUDIBLE)
EPSTEIN: Well, if you look at it from a mathematical point of view, but if you look at where I think there's absolutely been a shift in the electorate, if you look at, as this was the argument you were getting through in your question, the holy trinity of presidential politics, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida. In almost every single poll, she wins against McCain in those three states which you have to win, including the president.
ROBERTS: That's the point that (INAUDIBLE) John, do you expect that we're going to start to see super delegates break en masse one way or the other after the results from last night?
JOHN DICKERSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, yeah, super delegates are pretty calculating folks and they've been slowing going to - doesn't mean they're elitist. You can be a downscale person and calculate this as well. They've been moving towards Obama again, I mentioned it before, five to one since super Tuesday, two to one since Pennsylvania. There's no evidence in this outcome that's going to slow that movement. You could see - supporters of Obama and people close to him say they've got a fair number of these super delegates in their pocket.
ROBERTS: Some are suggesting it could be all over by the 20th of May.
DICKERSON: Well, yes and we'll just have to see. The trek will certainly continue, whether it's a huge movement. We just don't know.
SANCHEZ: Just real quickly, I think the next 24 hours are going to be a very difficult time for the Hillary Clinton campaign. It's all perception and it's going to be able cash, cash, cash coming in.
ROBERTS: As Julian was saying, we'll see. If she can start to pull in the same amount of money as she did after Pennsylvania, she may look OK. If she doesn't, then there may be...
SANCHEZ: It's very doubtful. It's going to be a very tough time.
ROBERTS: Folks, we got lots of time. We're going to go through all kinds of things over the next three and a half hours. Thanks for being with us. Stay with us. Alina.
CHO: John thanks. Hillary Clinton was able to squeeze out a victory in Indiana after focusing much of her campaign there on the economy. So much for Monday morning quarterbacking though. We're already looking ahead to the next battleground in West Virginia to see what issues are important to voters there. That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.
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CHO: Well if you're not up now, you probably didn't know this. Indiana called for Hillary Clinton in the wee hours of the morning by two points. Clinton won 51 percent of the vote. Barack Obama won 49 percent in Indiana. That victory did little however, to change the Democratic delegate count. Obama is now 189 delegates away from the magic number needed to clinch the nomination. Clinton needs 344 and there are 217 pledged delegates available in the six remaining contests. CNN's Dan Lothian joins us now from Indianapolis. Dan, the race in Indiana was called seven hours after the polls closed. What happened?
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it all came down to Lake County. This is the county that's in the northwest corner of the state, not far away from Chicago and they didn't release any numbers at all until late into the evening and this was an area that Senator Barack Obama was expected to do well in. Typically what happens in counties is that, as the evening progresses and as the numbers come in, those numbers trickle out, perhaps 1 percent, 10 percent. But the reason they say that they were not releasing these Lake County numbers, county officials, their elections officials there is because they said that they had more than 11,000 absentee ballots that they were trying to count and so they decided not to release any numbers at all. This process left a lot of people scratching their heads, including the mayor of Hammond, Indiana, which is in Lake County. He was critical of the process.
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MAYOR TOM McDERMOTT, HAMMOND, INDIANA: And Hammond, Indiana, a city of 83,000, we do things by the book. We had our votes counted at 7:30. Like I said, Senator Clinton won Hammond, Indiana and we are immediately to the east of Chicago. Gary is a little bit bigger than us, a lot more pro-Obama.
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LOTHIAN: The secretary of state's office says that typically in other counties, hundreds of precinct workers are called in to help to count these absentee ballots and in responding to what happened in Lake County, the secretary of state's office released a statement saying in part, quote, every other urban area of our state uses this process in order to get the results quickly and to stop suspicions from rooting and festering. The Lake County election board is reminded that no matter how long the process was drawn out, the public and the media have the right to monitor the proceedings. Alina. CHO: Dan, one more issue that was in play there in Indiana overnight was that voter ID issue. The Supreme Court upholding a state law, saying that voters going to the polls have to show a valid ID. That prevented some people, including a 98-year old nun from actually casting her ballot. So has that been resolved and are people talking about that this morning?
LOTHIAN: Well, indeed, that was an issue and what the secretary of state's office said is that the rules were very clear and pointed out that they believe based on all the evidence that was out there that the nun understood that you needed this ID in order to vote. But yes, there was a lot of confusion about that because people did not have the right kind of ID or had the expired ID when they went to vote and felt like they did not get the process. They were turned away. Obviously, very early here in the morning, so no real reaction from folks on the ground as to whether or not that continues to be a concern certainly. It was an issue for some people, including the nun yesterday.
CHO: Dan Lothian, live for us in Indianapolis this morning. Dan, thank you. John.
ROBERTS: Dan, the birds are up. Where are the election officials? We're breaking down Hillary Clinton's two point win county by county, town by town in Indiana. We're heading to the magic wall with John King straight ahead. Plus, after Clinton's two point win, she's still insisting that she can best relate to the working class voter. We'll hear the candidate in her own words ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to thank of course the people of North Carolina. I want to thank them for giving us a victory in a big state, in a swing state, in a state where we will compete to win if I am the Democratic nominee for president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Barack Obama last night after his big win in North Carolina, where Senator Hillary Clinton lost hard. She did manage though to squeak out a win in Indiana. Welcome back to the special election center edition of AMERICAN MORNING:
What happened to Hillary Clinton's bread and butter supporters, the working class voters and women? CNN's chief national correspondent John King was at the magic wall to break down how Hillary Clinton pulled off that two point lead.
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JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Senator Clinton racked up impressive and huge margins in the more rural communities. That is what you see here. The light blue is Senator Clinton. She won a sweep across most of the state of Indiana, running up some pretty big numbers. We come down here to Evansville and look down there, 52/48, start moving around. The more rural you get, the higher the Clinton number tends to go in these counties. Not a lot of population in these places, but running up big margins out in rural Indiana. What did that do? It allowed her to offset the results that came in later in the college town of Bloomington, Barack Obama wins a huge population center.
The big concentration of the population right here in Marion County, Indianapolis, Barack Obama winning huge there, 67 percent to 33 percent. The drama we waited on all night, the county closest to his political base in Chicago, right up here, Lake County, took hours to get any results. Then they came in first one big chunk, then another big chunk, seemed to show that it was possible Barack Obama could make up the difference. But then when the last big chunk came in, Hillary Clinton narrowed the gap. Barack Obama winning 55 percent to 45 percent in Lake County, closest to his home base here in Chicago. But because Senator Clinton in the later returns narrowed that gap, that allowed her to protect that statewide lead. It is only there about 23,000 votes, but it is 51 to 49 percent with 99 percent in.
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ROBERTS: John King for us this morning and John is going to be with us all morning long. There's all kinds of interesting data coming up on the magic wall that you're going to want to see.
CHO: Oh, yeah, always good when we have the magic wall. John King...
ROBERTS: It's just the best thing.
CHO: It really is. Despite losing North Carolina, winning Indiana by a two point margin, Hillary Clinton full speed ahead, sticking with her plan to fix the ailing economy. Here's what she's saying next on American (INAUDIBLE)
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ROBERTS: Four minutes before 6:00 here on the East coast. The counting went into the early morning and when it was done, Hillary Clinton hung on to a much-needed victory over Barack Obama in Indiana, 51 to 49 percent. A little more than 22,000 votes separated them. In North Carolina, the night's big prize, Clinton suffered a double digit loss. That was a hard one. But despite that, she stayed on theme in her speech last night.
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SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've got an important debate going on right now about how we're going to help families deal with these gas prices. They have gone up so fast so out of sight in the minds of the people that I talked with. And I think it's time that we really had a concerted strategy. You've heard me say this and I'll say it again. I think it's time to give Americans a break this summer and to make the oil industry pay the gas tax out of their record profits. I say it's time to cover every single American with health insurance. And I say it's time to freeze foreclosures for families most at risk of losing their homes, including our soldiers who are in harm's way and are being foreclosed on (INAUDIBLE).
We can once again be the can-do nation, a nation that defies the odds and greets the future with optimism and hope. There isn't anything America can't do once we make up our minds to start acting like Americans again (INAUDIBLE) Thank you and God bless you and God bless America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Hillary Clinton very upbeat last night and we have to say at that point, she wasn't certain, had a good idea, but wasn't certain that she would win Indiana.
CHO: Well and one thing's clear, quick is not in the Clinton lexicon. Coming up, from rising gas prices to falling home prices, the economy issue number one for voters. Money talks and so did the voters. We'll tell you what they said in our exit polls coming up.
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